#when i say im a wlw i don't mean im a woman btw | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

piosplayhouse · 9 months

Note

Hi! I came across a post complaining about the guy yuri poll and discourse aside, I vaguely remember you made a post about what is yaoi and what is yuri? I dunno if I dreamed this post up, but I've scrolled and scrolled and I can't find it. So, I wanted to ask (if you don't mind answering >.<), what is yaoi/yuri? (beyond the basic definitions) What counts as guy yuri and girl yaoi?

Uwaa ok so I will say Im planning to actually write a paper on this but I haven't done much research yet so ask in a few months and you'll hopefully have a better answer with cited sources. But here is a bit of what I'm conceptualizing at this point (corrections and additions very welcome!)

What set me down this path really was of course the fantastic Yaoizine hosted by tshirt3000, which includes a rather poignant author's note about broadening the definition of yaoi in public to the abstraction. Indeed, the actual origin of the term "yaoi" is an acronym for "yamanashi, ochinashi, iminashi" (plotless, climaxless, meaningless) from 70s doujinshi spheres wherein it was used as a somewhat self-degrading term to define a specific type of porn-without-plot self-indulgent indie fancomic. These were of course, mostly of the male-male variety. However, as the Yaoizine makes clear, there's not really an inherent gendering within the word in any sense but genre expectation-wise. This becomes particularly salient in the case of perhaps one of the most famous wlw romances out there, Revolutionary Girl Utena. Tshirt cites an interview with the creator of the anime, Ikuhara Kunihiko, where he refers to the relationship between the two main female characters (among other things) as yaoi, recontextualizing the term from merely a mlm genre into a statement on the dynamics of power and consumption as they relate to gender-- an act of sexual passion paired with a reversal of societal norms = yaoi in this case, which is why utenanthy fits perfectly within the term.

Conversely, yuri (lily) is a bit more difficult to analyze from a gender-neutral perspective as it originated not as a counterpart to yaoi, but instead as a counterpart to bara (rose, a term used to refer to erotic gay male content) used when lesbians would write in to gay magazines trying to hook up and whatnot. However, it's pretty agreed upon that the genre grew out of Class S literature, a type of literature based on girls, often senpai and kouhai, going to an all-girls school together and experiencing a connection that straddles the thin line between romance and homosociality. Homosociality like this among women has historically been and to this day remains somewhat under the radar and perceived as a "phase" or an amateur attempt at romance before a woman eventually marries a man. This is where we see significant overlap between pre/early modern Japanese male homosexual literature and lesbian literature, where homosexuality is seen as a youthful phase that will inevitably be grown out of (as in the case with the chigo system, LUG (lesbian before graduation), etc). Essentially, it was very common for the characters of early modern queer literature (mostly written by queer authors btw) to have brief and passionate schoolyard flings before graduating onto "normal" sexuality. Of course, these narratives fell out of style and are considered dead today, but their remnants can still be seen in the subsequent shojo and modern gl manga boom. The yuri that grew from this in the beginning was usually explicitly erotic, but still somewhat held onto the predominant themes of schoolgirl innocence and youthful beauty. Over time, meanings and terminology shifted, and the "yuri" we use today is more interchangeable with "gl", meaning it's not so much of an indicator of explicit content as "yaoi" is. However, I would still argue that one of the largest indicators of a story's "yuri factor" (if you could say that) is its ties to the establishing homosociality progressed into homoromantic relationship genre expectation. Of course, there are many wlw stories that subvert this, (as there are many mlm stories that subvert the yaoi or even bl template) but to me, if you were to compare yaoi and yuri's theming, yaoi's focus tends to skew more towards the intimacy in explicit eroticism, while yuri looks more into the implicit eroticism in intimacy. If that makes sense.

Of course, when looking into "boy yuri" there's also a transfem-coding factor to consider, which I think is what the majority of people have in mind when they refer to a couple as "boy yuri". Historically, there is massive precedent for feminization between male queer couples in historical Japanese literature, as well as in early modern relatives of bl, mainly Inagaki Taruho's work, so it would be somewhat disingenuous to say feminization is a purely modern, female-created phenomenon. But anyway, those are my (somewhat messy and likely inaccurate) thoughts so far, let me know what you all think. Have a happy yaoimas and merry new yuri, as they say.

#long post #long posts #really long post #really long posts #yaoi #yuri

163 notes · View notes

i-did · 4 years

Note

1/ 4 oh it's funny you brought up the ace people thing bc i'm actually aro/ace so i can elucidate on it a little xD i don't currently write smut but i sure have read a lot of it. i think a lot of ace people find fic a safe way to like? satisfy their curiosity about sexual things without having to look at real people or even watch porn which (esp mainstream porn) can be a lot. and also to like.

2/4 idk when you don't get something but it's such a big part of what so many other people seem to find super important it makes you kinda want to figure it out? i guess? and also a lot of people have a libido even if they don’t experience attraction so that’s a thing too. 3/4 part of the reason m/m is so popular is bc it’s just like. been that way in fandom so long that it’s a habit, and i don’t think the percentage of people fetisizing m/m relationships is really as high as it’s made out to be (although it does still exist, more or less prominently in every fandom) 4/4 my closest friend is a trans dude and he identified as a lesbian for a very long time and he’d never written lesbian porn and one day he was like. “its bc im not a lesbian and i want to write about dudes bc i am one” and i think there are a lot of younger people who are still figuring stuff out which is why i try not to be too harsh on individual people. i do still think it’s important to critique and look at why broader fandom trends turn out the way they do. anyway sorry for sending you a barrage of asks i just get excited about fandom meta xD

-mild nsfw and pwp discussion-

Hey! Yeah no worries, my blog has been pretty quiet activity and ask wise until just now so I'm kind of surprised by the amount of asks I started getting literally over night, but yeah I dont mind getting them lol.

I think "habit" is an interesting word to use in regards to people whipping mlm over wlw, and probably a pretty accurate one. I think however that the percentage of people who are fetishizing mlm is higher than people realize, because from my point of view... i haven't really heard many people talk about it or take it seriously. I don't think its just fetishization, I think its also lack of well written women as well as the default in lgbt being gay man, but i also think the fact that well developed characters get flattened out and a heteronormative dynamic gets placed on them, and the abundance of pwp proves that there is definitely fetishization and people need to start to unlearn it in fandom imo. It makes it a very uncomfortable place to be for mlm otherwise.

Also I know a lot of similar stories to the one you're saying about your friend, trans guys who didn't know who they were, especially gay trans men feeling like they fetishize mlm when they don't they're 100% mlm too, and having room for exploration is important like you said. Your friend is a straight trans guy but the point still stands.

About the ace thing: yeah and I totally get that, I know someone who reads pwp of mlm because its unemotional unlike wlw pwp and as someone who is aro they want to not feel like theyre missing out and know whats up with sexual psychology.

I've heard of a lot of ace people reading pwp to "figure out what the deal is" but its interesting to me how many people look into pwp that would be outside of their demographic, aka cis women reading pwp mlm. I think its important to note that probably 97% of mlm pwp isn't written by mlm for mlm, and isn't actually accurate not only in the mlm gaze, but also functionality and how sex feels. Its porn. Porn exaggerates things, it makes things sound bigger and more extreme and extraordinary because it os inherently performative in a way to arouse the consumer. In had an ace friend tell me they were sad sex wasn't something that they could experience in pwp but, no one can lol. I mean there is more toned down realistic pwp, but the vast majority talks about full body feeling (which btw amab people experience orgasums localized while afab experience more full body)

I get the appeal to not want to look at real people but wanting to know, but why only read mlm if thats the case? Why not also wlw or wlm, etc.

Also its important to note it still isn't actually accurate in a lot of small ways beyond gaze, but also proper prep, health, sanitization, eating habits, body hair, positions, terminology, sensations, culture etc.

I've had someone state that if they wanted accuracy they would go out and actually sleep with someone, but still that person was a cis woman reading mlm pwp, and I think accuracy is important to a degree to prevent issues like fetishization, but also unrealistic expectations.

You stated that mainstream porn is a lot, and it is, but also so is pwp imo, especially as a mlm. The pwp tag in ant fandom is quite wild lol. Thats. Thats my 2 cents, its quite wild.

But yeah overall the best thing is to assume people don't have ill intent, they usually don't! But that doesn't mean that overall some people aren't also causing harm by doing such things like fetishizing mlm in fandom.

Cool asks lol wasn't expecting this everyones been chill so far thanks for the lack of anon hate and remember that the internet is a public space and to try to be respectful of others.

#aftg #all for the game #fandom politics #fandom psychology #ask #mailob

35 notes · View notes