#this is also the reason why i try and limit my fandom exposure and don't engage with hotd twitter | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

the-ghost-king · 2 years

Text

I feel like Will during the battle of BoO was so OOC for no discernable reason other than Rick having an "oh shit I've just realized how traumatized Nico should be and it's not appropriate for the audience the books are marketed to" moment...

Nothing that happens in the whole "oh look Nico is overreacting" conversation(s) lines up with anything seen expressed in the books previously about Nico, and it doesn't line up with the behaviors we'd previously seen Will showcase and it barely lines up with the behaviors we see Will or Nico exhibit later on?

There's the scene where he doesn't tell Nico information to try to keep him safe but they have a healthy disagreement about it and Will does admit and acknowledge he was wrong once Nico reassurts boundaries so to me it's less "Will's an ableist asshole" and more "he's a traumatized kid with limited exposure to relationships"

People point out he told Apollo about Nico's mental health as well but 1) We don't know what Nico has placed boundaries on in terms of comfortability 2) the moment exists as foreshadowing and a plot device and 3) even if it's against Nico's wishes than is it not again just "silly kid with limited exposure to relationships fucks up" that could be corrected with some healthy communication

Which isn't like "this is okay behavior" but it's also "this is forgiveable behavior" (at least to me) to me it's just ignorance which is not the same as mal-intent... knowing something is bad and doing it anyways vs not knowing something is bad and doing it

We also (imo) need to have a conversation about whether or not it's "correct" to read Nico as having a physical disability, and I don't mean this in terms of morality but in terms of how people internalized the text because I've read it differently at different points in my life.

I've definitely read Nico's exhaustion and experiences with his powers as being a result of his powers, but I've also read Nico as being already overly exhausted and then his powers amplifying this. Which I know I've just communicated that so horribly so let me try to re-explain, some people are reading Nico as "he doesn't know his own limits and pushes himself too far" rather than "his limits are smaller/less than other characters" and others are reading it opposite. I think an important conversation the fandom needs to have is that these ideas can coexist.

At the same time even the people who are reading Nico as "he pushes himself too far" and not as "Nico has a lower tolerance for these things" should be listening to disabled people and their thoughts, because even though they've interpreted the text a different way they can still be ableist even if they're not interpreting Nico as physically disabled. I think personally that it's a good thing if such different interpretations of the text could coexist healthily alongside one another.

Could you argue I'm cherry picking a character for certain traits? And I mean yeah sure but isn't that what tons of content in fanon is? And I'd hardly be the first person to make a biased argument, but if you compare what Will is like before that one BoO scene the scene reads like such an outlier and the scene absolutely seems like "oh shit I've hurt Nico too badly I can't let kids see how bad it was" so it feels less like the Will we've seen previously and a lot more like Riordan trying to pull the cover over readers eyes and using Will as a vessel to do that.

And look I get why other disabled people and allies keep pointing to that scene and how awful it is, like yeah I've been in situations where I've had to deal with all kinds of shit like that and yeah sometimes (often) it does happen from people you're close to/caretakers/etc and like it fucking sucks to say the least.

And tbh, yeah it can be abusive especially when there's a power inbalance (and here's the important conversation about "Will is Nico's doctor and this is a problem" goes) but I do also think it's important to note that Will is not Nico's sole provider or caretaker, Nico is passed off to Dionysus for mental health care. In canonical text we've never actually seen or heard anything about Will being Nico's doctor outside of "emergencies" and look I love Gatorade as much as the next physically disabled person but "giving person who's body is fighting them Gatorade/KitKat/Gum" is not much different than "giving someone who is sick soup" there's the distinct difference in what, why, and how often, but the general intention behind the action is the same.

Yes, we don't know what happened during the 3 days in the infirmary, we might not ever know, or maybe we will learn during the next book but for now we can only speculate and headcanon and that makes everything fanon (is there an issue with the weird romanticization that goes on in a lot of the 3 days fics? Yes.)

I'll be honest and say I don't really know how to close everything I'm saying up and I don't personally have all the answers and I won't pretend to.

I think there's no denying that Nico is neurodivergent (and that fandom treats this horribly), but I think how someone reads the text can really determine if someone reads Nico as physically disabled or not and I don't think either one is inherently more correct and I've had both beliefs at one time or another and even stepping back now to look at the text I'm not entirely sure I could select a "correct" answer.

Even if someone doesn't read or interpret Nico to be physically disabled they should still listen to disabled people about how to best represent him when it comes to his health. Personally I don't think Will is intentionally ableist and I think it comes from his own trauma and I said before this doesn't okay anything he's done but to me it's forgiveable/he's a narrative device/etc but other disabled people are allowed to have their own opinions.

For now I'll say we have (imo- as someone who is nd and physically disabled) a situation in which Nico is both physically disabled and physically able bodied, equally. The text holds both interpretations equally and doesn't confirm anything, so at the same time either belief is both canon and fanon in equal parts.

I think the nuance of this issue + the nuance of the issue in regards to the homophobia and commodification Solangelo faces as a ship makes it a complicated topic to discuss and really encapsulate fully into a single cohesive thought.

(Also I'm going to get shit for this last bit especially, but in addition to being subject to homophobia Nico is also subject again and again to femmephobia and it's not even me agenda pushing)

#all of that and I didn't even get into the ableism about how nd characters are treated :|#anyhow I kind of used to care what people think I'm finding this less and less true like 'oh yeah people hate me whatever'.#i'll self rb this later and add better tags #long post

70 notes · View notes

outrunningthedark · 3 years

Note

am i the only one sick to the back fucking teeth of seeing people scream misogyny when someone dislikes ana or taylor? because theyre the literal only two characters i ever see people causing discourse over but nbody screams racism or homophobia if you dont like athena/karen/hen

like wtf is it w ana/taylor stans that if you so much as say theyre not interesting youre suddenly a misogynist who doesnt deserve to be in the fandom??

like im sorry ones a complete bitch and the other is so 2d shes like a sheet of paper but how am i supposed to like them when i have characters like maddie, athena, karen, hen, mrs lee, sue, may and the others??

misogyny is hating a woman because shes a woman not hating her because shes a bad fucking character

I debated answering this because ~discourse~, but what the hell, right? I saw a post today throwing Shannon's name in the mix along with the other two and once again I am here to say that unless you grew up with a parent like Shannon Diaz, you will not understand why her characterization 1) was accurate and 2) was necessary. Yes, the feel-good story would have been for Shannon to redeem herself and finally learn to be the mother Christopher deserves, but that's not reality. Not every child, never mind every disabled child, is blessed with a mother who is happy to care for them even though it's more work than they bargained for. My mother would BE Shannon Diaz if she followed through on her plans to leave. Instead, I deal with her resentment day in and day out. (And before anyone attacks me for openly discussing my ~trauma~, please understand I'm too damn old to be embarrassed about the life I was given. I didn't choose to be physically disabled. My mother, however, had a choice in how she handled my disability.) Moving onto T*ylor: I'm pretty certain 98% of the fandom "hating" on Taylor identifies as part of the LGBTQ+ community (I know, like, two straight gals who aren't here for her???), so please consider the source(s) of this alleged misogyny. Maybe, just maybe, we're tired of forced het romances because they're safer than the alternative? Maybe, just maybe, we don't like her setting boundaries twice (and getting praised for it!), only to be *shocked* Buck didn't chase after her? Maybe, just maybe, we would rather T*ylor's screen time be devoted to the characters who barely get exposure as is? Y'no...Karen? Michael? David? The LGBTQ+ rep y'all love to hype up as a reason we don't NEED canon!Buddie? I also prefer more Eddie and Christopher scenes over T*ylor's news reports and "detective work", thanks. A*a: People are allowed to not fuck with this one if the fact that she's being portrayed by a FAKE LATINA pisses them off. I don't have to fuck with her because she was purposely written as ableist - something I am all too familiar with growing up around able-bodied people. You want to talk about ableism? I WISH my mother's biggest concern was me riding a fucking skateboard. I didn't learn how to use utensils until I was in either fourth or fifth grade because my parents thought I would (accidentally) injure myself. They never taught me how to tie my shoes, I figured it out from somebody else. I've been told I am never going to make it on my own and that I'm "not trying hard enough". Asking for help with my hair is asking for a fight because "you should be able to do this". Things are placed out of my reach and then when I need to ask for help I end up doing so more than once because someone doesn't feel like getting up. I'm not saying any of this to gain sympathy or attention. I'm saying this to make people understand that for somebody like me it's not as simple as "moving on" from what was said - and the fact that the writers never addressed it, whereas they took the time to "fix" Eddie's cringe-worthy moments... food for thought. A*a is one example of what it's like to be raised by an ableist parent who doesn't see beyond their kid's "limitations". I'm not Tina. I'm Tina with CP. And, while I'm on the subject, doesn't it say something about what Eddie must think of his gf that she's only been with Christopher while he's around as well? He hasn't awarded her the same level of trust as his dudebro bestie, that's for sure. If YOU don't have a problem with the female characters on the show that does not make you superior. It simply means you have no connection to the way in which they were/are portrayed and therefore your experiences cannot influence your perception. Consider yourself lucky for that.

#911 discourse #tv: 911 #tv: 9-1-1 #buddie #anti ana flores #anti bucktaylor

92 notes · View notes

seoafin · 2 years

Note

Hi Morgan, what do you think about this post? I try to support writers on here as much as I can by reblogging but sometimes I forget and it makes me feel bad when I see these posts :/

anon i don't think op is trying to guilt trip you or anything, i think they're more or less stating an actual point that readers have been rebloging and liking posts less and less while demanding more content, which is a big reason as to why a lot of writers have been leaving. instead of thinking of it as a personal attack, you should take the feelings of a lot of writers on here into consideration and try to understand them.

as to the main point, yes i agree with op but i’m pretty much undecided on the rest of it haha

I understand op wanting to distinguish between different types of posts but I don’t think I completely agree with not including prompts/headcanons/drabbles in the x reader tag. Those posts ARE x reader...unless op is saying that the only posts that should be in the x reader tag should be fics but also I've been tagging all of the aforementioned as x reader for years and I've seen them being tagged as so by others for years so I don't quite understand where this idea came from that it shouldn't be. i think there’s more of an issue in ppl mass spamming different character tags on their posts than i think there’s a problem in ppl tagging their nonfics as x reader. i get it means less exposure, but you also can’t really force people to read one’s long fic either whether or not it stays at the top of the tags for long...

but also i think my perspective is pretty much limited as to what the fandom’s general consensus on what tagging should be bc i don’t interact with fandom as much, but the lack of interaction (and yeah i think it’s more of a lack of interaction rather than exposure that’s the problem tbh they’re related but not necessarily correlated) that a lot of long fics receive is a problem and warrants a discussion or two.

I think another reason as to why i’m kinda confused is because I thought 'imagines' and 'x reader' are pretty much synonymous when it comes to tagging reader inserts on tumblr. it’s been so long since i’ve been actively searching for fics in the tags but op could might be referring to the one or two sentence "imagine your favorite character..." blurbs that i've seen floating around here or there. also i've also seen prompts turned into fully fleshed out fics, and headcanons have always been in the x reader tag too so?? 😭 maybe my idea of drabbles/prompts/hcs are different from other people’s who knows

I understand op’s point that a lot of ppl have capitalized on so called ‘short fics’ most of which utilize the following formula: short, usually headcanon-like, and nsfw to gather as much as notes as possible but those are STILL x readers unless op and the fandom want to redefine the entire established x reader tagging system? granted, it’s a good idea but it’s also an idea that not everyone is going to adhere to. just look at how much DC in the tags are unproperly tagged

honestly, i think it’s an injustice that a couple of sentences can get 4K notes while one of the most stunning long fics I've ever read gets maybe 50 but I feel like at this point no amount of complaining and venting is ever going to spur people into reblogging and liking, or even reading the fic. this isn’t me saying that writers don’t deserve to be upset that something they put their heart and soul into isn't getting notes, i just think there’s a fundamental problem with the way ppl interact with fics and take them for granted in general. i’m just resigned atp to cringing every time I see my couple hundred nsfw get more notes any other thing ive written rip

also to me a reader insert has always been a character in of itself. like there is absolutely no way to make a reader so vague so the many people reading it can imagine themselves as the reader. literally just no way. i think the in the end the goal with any reader insert is that your readers can project onto and connect with the mc whether that be their worries or insecurities or joy, etc. i think one of the benefits of writing a reader insert is that it’s more flexible. instead of projecting onto and making a canon character OOC to write them in a ship, you can just write a x reader or even an OC. i personally have never envisioned myself as a reader. to me, the reader is just another character. that’s why ultimately, i believe that everything and anything written in the second person format is a reader insert. that’s the conclusion i came to after spending my time on quizilla, quotev, and lunaescence anyway lolllllll it’s also why i prefer named mc’s when reading reader inserts tbh. i dislike (y/n) because i don’t like inserting my name into anything. i just replace it with some some generic name instead

ANYWAY!!

i definitely rambled in this one, it’s just interesting to see everyone’s perspective on fandom and tagging culture. long fics really do deserve attention and exposure. some ppl write 40k+ words!! for free!!! make sure you let your favorite writers know you appreciate their hard work!! even a few words in the askbox can make their day and it doesn’t even take long. i feel like that’s the least ppl can do!!!

#it's interesting to map out the trajectory of fandom because it's constantly changing #mb this is just my opinion but i appreciate asks and comments much more than i do likes and reblogs #haha this was long......is this discourse?#i just finished reading like 80 pages of dense ass theory my eyes are spinning #sorry if this doesn't make sense #oh oh!!! I also think it's interesting how we've started to see this trend of making detailed reader inserts rather recently #I rmb when it was either making the mc as neutral as possible /only outwardly fleshing them out / going all in with the detail #though the last one wasn't as prolific in older fandom spaces #when I was on Luna (rip) a lot of ppl did drabble fics with different prompts #and that setup allowed them to write easily integratable mc's for a single chapter w/o rlly elaborating on them #discourse

3 notes · View notes