#this is about like 'transandrophobia' as a useful term

[stlangels]

Oh ok wait i think i finally got it ok

#grahambles #this is about like 'transandrophobia' as a useful term #and also how like gender and the patriarchy work. #like sometimes i forget how complicated some of the nitry gritty ideas are #but i did a few days of thinking and i think i have a conception of it #not actually posting a take. #at least unless its super polished #but like basically. yes the transphobia transmen and transwomen face is different #however trans men arent opressed for being men #maybe a better way of putting it is tbat trans men are opressed for being trans men #or that the way trans men experience transphobia is tied to the patriarchy (because the gender binary and patriarchy are inherently linked) #but trans men are oppressed in the way that patriarchy sees us as 'not man enough' #so we arent oppressed for our maleness but for our transness and our failure to adequately embody patriarchal masculinity or femininity #idk if im wording this well #basically its like how the racism black men experience is colored by the fact that they are men but they aren't oppressed for being men #their maleness allows them to attempt to approach patriarchy in a way black women areny allowed to #in a similar way trans men experience the social pressure all men experiemce to fit the idealized patriarchal man #and that ideal man is a man who has and enacts power over women #even if the world beyond doesn’t accept a trans man or it sees him as a woman he will still be influenced by that social pressure #trans men don't want to be excluded from manhood so we may attempt to approach power seeing it as masculine #of vourse we will still be excluded from holding this power because we will be excluded from manhood #however we can still access this power a little. #idk if this makes any sense #and i do think trans men can access patriarchal power sometimes but not in tge way cis men can #this is rambly as hell thats why its staying in the tags #these are half formed thoughts

[buildarocketboys]

Dear transmascs,

I love y'all, I appreciate your posts and find solidarity in your struggles. But please, PLEASE could you acknowledge that some (many) trans people who don't identify as transmasc share in the same struggles? Please could you acknowledge non-transmasc (afab) non-binary/genderqueer people in your posts that also affect them once in a while? Could you please NOT co-opt the death of a NON-BINARY trans person to talk about how transmascs are oppressed for being transmasculine? Like, yes, there are overlaps between transandrophobia and enbyphobia (and transmisogyny) and these are important to talk about but please realise that you can do this WITHOUT erasing non-binary people who do not identify as transmasc.

Idk maybe this seems like a non-issue to a lot of people but it's honestly deeply fucking upsetting to me, as an (afab) genderqueer person. I'm not saying you have to make all posts about transmasc people about non-binary people as well but please just. When something is ABOUT a non-binary person and that person doesn't explicitly identify as transmasc, please, please don't erase their identity and make it ONLY about the experience of being transmasc??

I'm so fucking tired.

Signed,

A genderqueer person

(btw if you come on this post being shitty about transmascs or talking about how transandrophobia isn't real or whatever, you're getting an instant block. This ain't about that, transandrophobia is real but so is enbyphobia/exorsexism.)

#ugh please don't fucking discourse on this post #but like #i see this shit all the time and mostly it's whatever #but I just saw a post doing this for that non-binary teenager who got killed #the poster acknowledged that they don't even know if they identified as transmasc or not #but still continued to use transmasc 'as an umbrella term' #please can you fucking not god #like you can talk about the overlap and how non-binary people are also affected by transandrophobia #without assuming all of them are transmasc/erasing the ones that aren't #sometimes! it's ok to say afab trans people!! #i know it gets used in a misgendering way sometimes but guess what? calling nb people transmasc when they're NOT #is ALSO MISGENDERING #im trying not to be bc i don't want to upset ppl but im so angry I'm sorry #trans stuff

[boywithbear]

randomly thinking about how the anti "transandrophobia truthers" people never think trans men ever face misogyny, especially if they're out of the closet and can pass as a man, and i'm here masculine as hell and would pass to THEM but yet my voice gets me misgendered all the time, to the point during phone calls people will refuse to believe I am who I say I am because of the masculine name not matching up with the voice and so they always automatically assume I am my own sister or mother, and my own urogynecologist fully sees me as a woman despite my FULL BEARD and my bear of a body

like yeah totally i completely have all the same exact experiences and privileges as a cis man! /s

Edit: actually lol to make the point further, I am still here with the full beard and masculine attire and so I'm probably what they'd call "cishet passing" and yet when I go out, I am misgendered ALL the time now because of the combination of my voice, my long hair, and wearing a mask that covers up a good bit of my face. I'm misgendered more than I'm gendered correctly, actually. Like really blows my mind bc I will see these ppl call ppl they dont even KNOW irl "cishet passing" based on seeing pictures of them when that doesn't = reality and also that's a fucking gross ass term.

#think they just love their radfem rhetoric so much they'll do anything to ignore how complex the real life world actually is #like we are allowed to have a term for the specific experiences we go through as transmascs/trans men #and half of it is because THEY'RE the ones who want to equate it to transmisogyny and make it a competition and then blame that on US #like no YOU did that #sure some trans men who speak on transandrophobia can be transmisogynistic. EVERYONE CAN BE. what does that have to do with the term itself #the term is about OUR unique experiences. which yes we DO have and you all just love to ignore it #and there's exorsexism/enbyphobia for nonbinary people. where's your problem with that? #or do you ONLY have a problem when it comes to trans men because men bad and woman good. wonder who started that notion. huh. #and when there have been so many trans women too who have spoke about how that shit harms them too but yall don't actually care #because your hatred for men is greater than your love for women actually and it's sad. rant OVER. #transandrophobia #transphobia #z #literally with this out of nowhere bc caffeinated and also phone went to shit again so not on here much again but was having Thoughts

[cayde6feetunder]

Ngl it bothers me how people talk about how trans folks are oppressed even within their own community, acknowledge that there’s shit that targets trans men, but then lose their shit and cry a fucking river when someone coins a term for precisely that treatment and labels anyone who suggests that maybe said big scary word exists as a concept and behaviour as a violent bigot and they (incorrectly) assume that it emerged as solely a way to target other trans people when that is very very much not the case. They take the fact that theres TERFs and other shitlords in the tag and use that as a “gotcha.” people aren’t at all very smart about this and it shows but also it’s pathetic useless internet discourse that I shouldn’t be worrying about even if it annoys me very deeply because absolutely none of you have a single thought grounded in reality

#caydeposting #yes I’m talking about the big scary transandrophobia word #‘but the person who coined the term is—‘ okay based in that logic you can’t use words like elbow #or most English words because the people who coined them sucked or whatever #words can and will be divorced from those that made them.

[psychiatricwarfare]

i think sometimes people forget that there's more than one way to be trans & that bigots Do Not Care what flavour of trans you are, they want us all dead so can we please stop arguing over things that literally dont matter and lift each other up instead of tearing each other down? im sick of this afab vs amab, tme vs tma, transmasc vs transfemme, the total erasure of transnonbinary & trans intersex individuals (or just nonbinary & intersex ppl in general). im so so so sick of all these new boxes we're trying to stuff each other in when elder trans ppl fought so hard against those boxes!!

for fucks sake, no one trans group has it any better or any worse than any other trans group, we just have it different, the transphobes want us ALL dead - whether its for different reasons or by different means, dead is dead. they dont care if youre tme afab transfemme or if youre tma axab transfemmasc or if youre a god damn clown fish. its all the same "agenda" to them.

im so fucking done seeing posts saying "trans women have No idea what its like to deal with....." or "TMEs fuck off! you're not welcome here!" or any of that shit because THAT is exactly how white supremacists get a foothold in. THAT is how we lose this battle. fucking THAT is how we get divided and conquered. they want us to split up into smaller groups and fight each other, they want us to be too weak to fight back and the way to do that is to wittle down our numbers & until they can get away with outright killing us in broad daylight (more than they already have) they have to make do with splitting us up and turning us against each other

im just sick and tired of all the infighting, you're either with ALL of us or you're with the white supremacists, idfc if you are trans yourself. we need all of us to work together and put our differences aside. it is not that fucking hard to sit yourself down and go "ok well they may not know what it's like to be me, but i dont know what its like to be them either" and realise that turning against other trans ppl just bc "they dont understand" is ridiculous and just a bad move when we're in the middle of a fight for our fucking lives. who cares who's "more oppressed" this isnt the god damn olympics, this is the fight for human rights and right now we need to focus on keeping all of us alive. save your petty irrelevant fucking discourse for when we aren't focused on trying to keep our community ALIVE

#bug talks #bug rants #this is inspired by being transnonbinary & experiencing transmisogyny as well as transandrophobia and they are both equally bad #& way too many of yall binary trans ppl seem to forget about those of us who Do experience what its like to be treated as both #ive been mistaken for a trans woman & a trans man more times than i can fuckin count #they are both insidious #but way too many of yall are too busy arguing over who has it worse and whos forcing who out of what space #yall dont even realise that its a community wide issue & people are guilty of this on all sides #but sure keep reinventing gender norms trans edition that's fine #and when we get our throats stomped on and our intestines pulled out by our mouths im sure itll Really matter whos tme or tma #which btw is a term that doesnt even make sense because any person on earth can be a victim of transmisogyny bc transphobes r idiots??? #you cant tell who's trans and who isnt by looking at them and so even cis women and cis men and trans men and intersex folk can experience #transmisogyny so i dont understand what the point of that label even is

[xxlovelynovaxx]

"there isn't a damn thing that affects me that specifically" Okay so you're privileged. Got it. Next!

#transandrophobia #Honestly I could go more into the idea that transmascs don't face anything unique #like 'actually everything we experience is experienced by all trans people' #I mean yeah if you're extremely reductive and only talk in broad categories very little is unique to a single group of trans people #funny how that works but also if you do that there's nothing unique about any kind of transmisogyny either. #and like yeah there are outliers the whole point is that transmisogyny PRIMARILY affects transfems and those perceived as transfem #same with transandrophobia #it's the SPECIFIC way it manifests that those terms were MADE to describe because those specifica are literally KILLING us #if you give the wrong antivemon to a snake bite victim they'll DIE #the whole POINT is that the specifics DO matter #also... #'BITTER THAT THEY HAVE LESS OPPRESSION POINTS THAN TRANS WOMEN' ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME #THERE ARE NO OPPRESSION POINTS YOU SAID THE QUIET PART OUT LOUD #YOU THINK TRANS WOMEN SCORE MORE POINTS ON THE OPPRESSION SCALE #as an intersex transfemmasc go fuck yourself #also this is literally the opposite of solidarity you rotted cuntnugget

[citrinide]

Sometimes I see a funny trans related post by another trans person and check the notes to see if there is more of The Funny and get hit with that good ol' trans-on-trans crime that's been real prevalent lately and have to sit there like "What the fuck happened here????"

And then I check and it's the most obvious ass bait in existence that's being passed off as "the AFABs at it again" or whatever the fuck. Tumblr and its piss-poor reading comprehension I swear.

#politely and impolitely blocking every fuckin one of ya's that unironically uses the term #'transandrophobia truther' to refer to a trans man literally just talking about his own fucking struggles #or using tme or afabs to refer to ALL trans men as if that isn't literally fucking disgusting of you to do and what transphobes do daily #like I'm sorry do you fucking HEAR yourselves??? pull your heads out of your asses oh my god??? anyway— #cecil.fm

[transmascrage]

I thought we were ugly and dirty. Make up your mind, I gotta know which stereotypes fit me.

#no this is not a compliment #the person who reblogged this also reblogged something like 'when op makes a good point but tags it as transandrophobia' #'gif of judge judy closing her laptop' #but im more mad about the uh...liberal definitions of transandrophobia ive seen deniers give #'it means they think trans women have mroe privilege' 'they think they get too much support' #'they'll defend trans men but never trans women' #show me who these blogs are then. quickly. #cause i haven't seen them at all #so demoralising to see this shit #listen if in a few years the term goes mainstream #and i hear someone go 'i used to make fun of the truthers but now i agree' #fuck them im not forgiving them #the time to support us is NOW #not in a few yesrs when the term is socially acceptable to use

[technoxenoholic]

really annoying when i go to reblog a post that makes a good point about something important, find that i can't reblog it, make sure tumblr itself is still working so it isn't that, check the op's blog, and discover that the likely reason i can't reblog their post is that they've blocked me for the crime of (checks notes) supporting bi lesbians and agreeing that trans men face some unique forms of oppression

why can't people on this website just be normal about other people's identities and experiences i swear to fucking hell

#stfu blue #lgbtqia+ #discussion of queerphobia #discussion of transphobia #discussion of treiphobia #discussion of exclusionism #the post was about how drawn/written cp is still harmful to children by normalizing cp even if it doesn't harm a specific kid individually #anyway. you don't have to like the words 'transandrophobia' or 'transmisandry'. but the described phenomenon exists #i use treiphobia as the term for it because i find it more accessible than other terms coined for the same purpose

[gloriousmonsters]

gonna put this under a cut bc nonsense actually

just going to put this tag of mine comparing certain things btwn ace discourse and transmasc/male discourse

next to this reply i got on my following post abt how fucked up 'transandrophobia truther' is as a term. for comparison's sake

#it went on to be like 'well it's not useful as a term bc some of the things included in transandrophobia also happen to gnc women and etc' #and 'we can TALK about things we just don't need to make up a term for it!!' buddy you wanna apply those ideas to transmisogyny and maybe #see if that cracks your brain open? #also if it's an intersection of transphobia and misogyny trans men experience than are we supposed to use transmisogyny? #bc ppl who don't like 'transandrophobia' usually seem to also get mad if people don't like to use 'tme' #negativity #vic talks

[undervaluedagent]

Man I hate tumblr sometimes

#undervalued files #someone blocked me for reblogging abt transandrophobia again that's pretty stupid no? #honestly convinced that a lot of ppl who are against the usage of transandrophobia just know fuck all about it or anything else #like okay being shitty abt transfems in the name of transmasc advocacy is obviously shitty #that's an arguement i see frequently against transandrophobia #but like just using the word doesn't do anything to transfems and just talking abt our experiences doesn't either #if you're against the term itself because ''androphobia'' means that men can be oppressed #then idk what to tell you aside from stop worrying about words discourse #AND GO THE HELL OUTSIDE #hope this doesn't show up in any random tags on accident #rant

[branchiopod]

why am i being forced to see transandrophobia posts today

#genuinely what do we not understand about the fact that terms like transmisogyny are used to describe the intersection of oppressed groups #sometimes what people describe as ‘transandrophobia’ is literally transmisogyny

[321sluggie]

Hey, considering the majority of people use “transandrophobia” to mean either 1) any transphobia specifically against transmascs or 2) the intersection of transphobia and misogyny that affects transmascs, I would really reconsider your thoughts on it in light of your sexism/pedophilia post

Ok

#coming back to add a thought to this—I get what you’re saying. And transmascs do experience unique forms of discrimination #but in terms of actionable change—of making the world better for transmasc people—I don’t see the labelling of transandrophobia as useful #medical professionals + employers shouldn’t be sexist. it bothers me that I’m seen as a woman but I can’t change how people read me #but if women were respected and taken seriously in the first place I wouldn’t experience this so negatively #you get what I’m saying? it’s so much more useful for me and everyone else to combat the sexism. #if I combat transandrophobia it wouldn’t make it better for the women who experience the same bullshit #it would just be trying to move myself into existing structures of male privilege #similarly—passing well enough to be called slurs has much more to do with homophobia directed at queer men than being perceived as trans #in a less homophobic world cis men wouldn’t have to go through that either #I don’t want to discourage you from using terms that help you understand your experience #but I personally see combatting sexism as the much more actionable form of activism #also. and this is more mean spirited of me to say #that post isn’t a post about transmascs in general…it’s not a ‘sexism/pedophilia post’ #it’s an experience post. a personal one #I wonder a little bit about your motives when your inclination is to see a personal post and focus more on a wording in a tag #than the substance of the post itself #if you’re thinking about transandrophobia and what transmascs face day to day why not prioritize. like. care #for the person #rather than the vocab you disagree with #like do you care about other people’s well-being or do you care about being right

[entropy-sea-system]

I have gotten annoyed when someone brings up that they disagree with me on a discourse stance because me stating it is not an invitation to debate it, but also I did unfortunately do the same thing in the past especially if I felt convinced that people on the opposite side were wrong, I'm glad I started just blocking people more than debating though

#I was saying once on a discord server that I was uncomfy w using a label bc the person who made it denied that transandrophobia exists and #then someone was like 'well as a transmasc I dont think it exists bc men not oppressed' and its like. did I ask?? #I used to think it doesnt exist #I changed my mind after seeing some transmascs explain it and realised its unethical (imo) to deny that transmascs face unique oppression #that isnt just covered by the term transphobia #I genuinely saw a white person claim the term is racist that person turned out to be an exclusionist #Im bipoc and other bipoc trans ppl especially transmascs have talked at length about why its not #and 'men are never oppressed' is a very white take imo bc have you ... tried being a bipoc man??? #a lot of us are just. viewed in racist ways and some of that is amplified bc ppl either deny us masculinity and/or see us as dangerous #bc they see bipoc men and mascs as more threatening? And its different from how bipoc women are treated #thats just an example also. point is that men do face different oppression and theres nothing wrong w talking abt it

[gaogaigoatgrrl]

i hope that in the wake of predstrogen/predesterone's back-to-back deletion we don't forget about the ongoing building wave of seemingly organic transmisogyny from the userbase leading up to it, some of which may or may not have been the result of terf psyops but all of which certainly wouldn't have been possible without the eager participation of a significant proportion of users, including but probably not limited to:

the entire concept of transandrophobia (if this offends you, think long and hard about why you want so badly for it to be real)

the ongoing backlash against the terms tme and tma (if they offend you, think long and hard about why they might have practical value to trans women and people with similar social positionality)

the ongoing trend of trans women's blogs getting flagged on the flimsiest of pretenses and generally receiving far more scrutiny for "adult content" than anyone else's

the seeming unironic revival of "baeddel" as a slur for outspoken trans women, on the basis of a long-dead clique that, ironically enough, self-applied the long-dead (and tbf, etymologically questionable) slur from the middle ages to reclaim it

the entire "trans women should be fucking trans men instead of complaining about transmisogyny" genre of post

the backlash when tgirls finally started calling out the aforementioned bullshit

the copypasted anons sent to several trans women (many of whom were lesbians) sexually harassing them and threatening corrective rape for calling out the aforementioned bullshit

the backlash when tgirls called the aforementioned bullshit sexual harassment

the expansion of flexible queer label use (which to be clear, i am generally all for) to include "afab trans women", muddying the waters and making transmisogyny harder to articulate

the backlash when tgirls started calling out the aforementioned bullshit

the aita incident in which a trans woman described a cis woman claiming to be a trans woman in a group chat and giving other trans women terrible medical advice based on no actual qualifications or experience, and got a huge backlash for warning them about the aforementioned bullshit despite the stakes of, you know, following terrible medical advice

everything from the sixth point onward happened within the past... week? two weeks? my sense of time is a bit fuzzy. who knows what the rest of this week has in store?

people on this website are so incredibly hostile to trans women even being able to name our own oppression, let alone resist it in any concrete way. and i know it's not just this website. don't you get tired of the crab bucket bullshit? holy fucking shit.

like, i've been lucky, i've overwhelmingly managed to dodge it (probably on account of frankly being a pretty boring and inconsistent poster). this time last year, i was actually bored that i didn't have anons in my inbox to argue with. but i've seen it happen to so many other women now, it's absurd. even if it never hits you personally, you can never shake the awareness that it's happening to so many of the cool girls on here, people you like and whose posts you laugh at and who you look up to. they just kinda seem to drop like flies over time. don't you get tired?

[euniexenoblade]

Anyways, baeddel is a slur against trans women.

Yes, there once was a weird group of girls who ressurected this long dead word for representing an ideology (I'm not getting into it but it did suck, just not cuz they "hated" men). This group self destructed before ever getting that many people. It was small. A tiny group. Their ideology wasn't popular either.

But, truscum, anti-sjws (conservatives by another name) and hate sites like kf would start to use the term to refer to any trans woman that they decided wasn't "trans enough" or "woman enough" or more importantly, was "too political" (ie talks about transmisogyny, talks about feminism, talks about leftism, etc.). Baeddel became a stand in for "tranny" "faggot," it's the trans woman stand in for the "nasty man hating dyke" sentiment.

Now, a small niche group of trans mascs on Tumblr dot com have created this concept that the baeddels didn't self destruct, apparently they actually are this insanely popular group whose ideology has spread into modern LGBT politics and has "poisoned" everything. This is just a lie. The baeddels group never had enough members to spread that much, the group didn't last long enough, and it was almost entirely located on Tumblr. The people with "baeddel" in their url or bio or whatever these days have no connection to the political group of old, it's a reclaiming of a word used against them, as explained in the third paragraph.

If someone is calling trans women "baeddels" or talking about baeddels in their posts or whatever, they're just calling trans women faggots. It's "gay agenda," but for the transmisogynists. This is a small bit of why I can't take the "transandrophobia is real" crowd seriously. I knew actual baeddels, the ideological ones, they are not the women they're referring to. They are using a slur to refer to trans women they don't like and are trying to hide it behind some dead ideology that most of them don't even know.

Baeddel is meant to be a scary word, it's meant to silence women. Just like, 5 or 6 years ago, claiming a trans woman was a baeddel was enough to effectively get her "canceled," no matter what she said. But, that doesn't work as easily now. And now these trans masc people are getting information from terfs and lesbophobes and violent transmisogynists about how violent trans women are, about how privileged trans women are, about how transmisogyny is actually fake ("we all experience transmisogyny!") and they did this by lacing it with actual trans masc issues. They present an issue trans mascs do actually face, that could use discussion, and then in the very next post talk about the scary baeddels, the mean baeddels, trans women are so terrible. And these people assume this person can't have an ulterior motive, reblog it, file it away in their brain, so when trans women come in and are like "hey no that's bigotry" these trans mascs froth at the mouth to eviscerate her. It's the dreaded baeddel. Here to oppress me.

I'm going off topic but I digress, if you're calling trans women "baeddel," stop it. You don't know what that word means.

#Transandrophobia #Transandrodorks