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silverwhittlingknife · 1 year

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Dick resurrecting Bruce via Lazarus Pit and his reasons for doing so left a bad taste in my mouth. Especially when Dick tried to talk Tim out of it. I don't like it. I wish Tim found out about it and... Had a serious discussion with him? Hit him? Left? I dunno.

Oh man, it's hard for me to talk about this one without the Doylist approach. I'm gonna come back to these panels, but I just want to leave them here as a contrast between how Dick is written in his solo vs. how he's written in Batman and Robin:

Dick: Tim... I ... where does it stop, right? What about your mom, then? My mom and dad? Bruce's...? (Nightwing 139)

Dick: This isn't just "loved ones," Alfie. It's Bruce Wayne, the Batman. He saved our lives, he saved the city and the world how many times? (Batman and Robin 9)

I have SUCH complicated feelings about the Morrison Batman and Robin run? I like a lot of the Dick-Damian-Alfred dynamics, and I love the idea of villain!Jason as a major antagonist for DickBats, and I love what I think is the concept of the Lazarus Pit arc, which is that Dick's slowly crumbling under the pressure of being Batman and Jason's taunting is the last straw that finally pushes him to make a terrible mistake.

But I don't like the execution of the Lazarus Pit arc, and the disregard for big chunks of post-Crisis continuity and characterization is sooo frustrating. ("I don't like to plan"/pro-Lazarus-Pit!Dick, cartoonishly-evil!Talia, redhead!Jason, etc.)

And yet. AND YET. So many of the concepts are so good! The execution is so messy, but the concepts are so good! I want to tear it all up and then put it lovingly back together but different sdfdsfs

I had a lot of thoughts, so below the cut:

Why characterizations in B&R are a huge departure from previous continuity (Doylist version)

Why the Lazarus Pit arc COULD BE SO GOOD though (and how we can make it work with Watsonian reasoning)

Finally getting back to your question - how would Tim react? (tl;dr probably with concern and worry?)

Characterization Changes

Just to give you a bit of an idea of how abrupt a departure B&R is from Dick's solo, here are some panels showing some major changes.

1) Dick on Lazarus Pits: Pro or Against?

Here's Dick arguing against using the Lazarus Pit and telling Tim it won't bring back the soul in Nightwing 139:

Here's Dick doubling down on the evilness of the Lazarus Pit when Ra's taunts him with it post-Bruce's death in Nightwing 152:

But here's Dick arguing that the Lazarus Pit will be fine and that he doesn't believe in "prophecies of doom" in Batman and Robin 7 (and indeed, also in B&R, he'll kill and resurrect Kate with zero consequences - convenient!):

2) Talia: protective or cruel?

Here's Talia worrying about Damian's safety and teaming up with the Batfamily to try to save him from Ra's in Resurrection:

But here's Talia smirking after telling Damian they're enemies now and she's going to replace him with a clone in Batman and Robin 12:

3) Dick and planning

Here's Dick-the-planner in Nightwing 142:

Tim: That's a lotta ordnance. Dick: Failing to prepare is preparing to fail.

But here's Dick the impulsive leap-before-you-look guy in Batman and Robin 9:

Dick: ... Okay, I'm sorry - I don't like to plan, I work without a net... I'm not Bruce.

4) Resurrection: the right choice or the wrong choice (part 2)

Here's Dick telling Tim he made the right choice (not trying to resurrect anyone) in Nightwing 139:

But here's Dick insisting that resurrecting Bruce would've been the right choice in Batman and Robin 9:

This is one of those "clearly some people were writing angry letters to the editor" moments sdfdsfds, because it's awkwardly attempting to address Dick's abrupt about-face but the writer still hasn't read the issues in question because

a) Alfred has no way of knowing Dick's previous stance and it's incredibly weird that he would, b) "cautioned against" the Pit is a lot milder than "had a fist-fight with Tim about it," c) Dick's argument has shifted from "the Pit is an eldritch evil that's untrustworthy and probably soulless" to "look, resurrection is a special thing, and not all loved ones are important enough for resurrection," which, uh, okayyyy, and d) Dick is still full-naming "Tim Drake" as if he's a business associate and they had an argument about how to properly file paperwork and now it looks like Tim Drake was right after all, as opposed to Dick's little brother that he had a huge fight with and who subsequently ran away from home insisting that their dad was alive and that he was gonna prove it and now it turns out their dad is alive

Why This Arc Could Be Great Though

Listen, Dick-driven-to-the-Lazarus-Pits is a great concept. I love narrative foils. I love Dick ending up in the exact same place that Tim was in Resurrection, and even though he knows better. I love Dick being that desperate. Here's the setup:

Damian's back gets broken, Alfred takes him to get emergency treatment from Talia but it's not clear if he'll recover,

villain!Jason taunts Dick about not caring about Bruce,

Dick's been slowly crumbling under the pressure of being Batman and between the guilt of Damian being injured and the blow of Jason's accusations (not to mention having to fight villain!Jason and get him arrested), this is the last straw,

he decides to resurrect Bruce even though he knows perfectly well this is a terrible idea because he was the one who talked Tim out of it

he heads off to do this incredibly stupid thing and nobody stops him because normally on the rare occasions Dick's out-of-control Tim shows up and stops him (Hugo Strange, the Joker) but Tim isn't here and actually the strain of that ongoing estrangement is probably also contributing to Dick's isolation and terrible decision-making

the attempted resurrection goes horribly and Dick has to fight a grotesque parody of his tragically-dead father

I love this idea!! I love it when characters make stupid emotional decisions with terrible consequences!! I love the ways Dick and Tim's arcs intersect and parallel each other!!

And I think this could absolutely be in-character for Dick. He knows it's wrong and a bad idea, but he's desperate and pushed to his limits and grasping at straws? Yeah. I can see it.

BUT yeah, not in love with the execution. My conclusion is that more people should write about this arc in fanfic. <3

How Would Tim React?

I think it depends on where you put Tim in the story?

Options that come to mind:

Tim finds out mid-adventure: Tim's semi-teaming-up with Ra's and underground in a League base - and suddenly he stumbles on Dick sneaking in with (apparently) Bruce's dead body! In this case, I think Tim's first reaction is defensiveness about his own behavior and assuming he's being spied on, and it only slowly dawns on him that Dick's up to something. I'd really want to somehow maneuver a physical fight where Tim tries to stop him, so you get a direct reversal of Resurrection, but mmmm I'm a little stuck on how to get there since Tim's working theory is that the body isn't Bruce's body, so I don't see why he'd be opposed to Dick dumping it in? But anyway, they should have a physical fight and a direct parallel where Tim realizes he needs to back off and let Dick decide, and then they hug ;_; I feel like to make this one work you need Tim really invested in stopping Dick, so uhhhhh maybe for some reason Tim's "rescue Bruce from time" plan requires the body of the clone? So Dick CAN'T put it in the Lazarus Pit, or Bruce will be LOST FOREVER?

Tim gets told about it after the fact: So uhhh for example, Ra's finds out about Dick's botched resurrection attempt and tells Tim about it in an attempt to paint Dick as a hypocrite/ entice Tim into using the Lazarus Pit. I feel like Tim would just straight-up not believe him? But let's say that Tim finds out for sure - either Dick admits it to him, or he sees some League recording, or whatever. I'm not really sure how Tim would react? Worried, probably, because it's out-of-character, and I feel like Tim might wonder if it's really him or if he's under magical influence or something? And uhhhh then ideally Tim realizes that no, it was because he was having a really hard time ;_; and then Tim is worried about him and comforting and/or apologetic and probably Dick is probably also apologetic and then they hug <3.

Alternate third terrible possibility: it is Bruce's body, he was dead and Tim was just in denial, Dick resurrects him but there are some kind of eldritch evil consequences, and then Dick has to call Tim back and they have to fight undead!Bruce together. I like this one >:D

#i have various scribbles of a semi-novelization of batman & robin in the thousand ninjas 'verse #because i am actually really attached to a lot of aspects of this goofy comic sdfdsfs #when it's good it's very good - it's just that when it's bad it's horrid #and isn't that all of comics in a nutshell....#ask tag #dick & tim #dick grayson #tim drake

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princess-pill-enjoyer · 2 years

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Passed out off a morning dose and woke up to the sweet sight of an email from my old uni 🙃

I thought I settled that for a while as I said I didn't have the money for that and the lady said it was fine. Buuuut apparently that had a time limit as well so they now want me to pull $400 out my ass or they're more than likely gonna send that shit off to collections

Part of me doeent even care. It ain't like I'm going to jail over 2k and I have literally nothing of value. No car. No house. Annnd no money. Sooo yeh have fun tryna get yall shit lmao. But I know that's a pretty stupid way've looking at it. Ruining my credit this early on probably ain't s great idea.

Ah. This sucks. My dad really doesn't want to drive me around cause of how much gas is now, the work from home shit he and my stepmom are doing is having me wait a month for some dumb junk with my mic, had to turn down two different jobs due to my dad deciding they're not for me.. bruh. Atp. I'd just walk to work. It'd probably at least be an hour long but. Fuck it at this point. Only thing is I live in one of the most infamous places for human trafficking so I'd definitely have to stay alert and try to go on different routes here and there to not make my routine as obvious

I probably woulda been able to float by for another month or so if my dad and stepmom would've paid me back. They owe me like $500 and half that comes from some shit they borrowed a year ago now. Plus, i accidentally eavesdropped on them grabbing my dad's phone instead of mine. They apparently been borrowing a lot from soneone else as well soo yeah even if they did have the money i dont think they have that to spare rn

The other option woulda been to take out extra on my student loan but my mom already took the excess out so I'd have to apply for a whole new loan. If I were still in school that'd be no problem but my incident in April makes me hesitant to make big commitments like that. I was so close to ending my shit just off owing 7k but a whole new semesters worth of debt just for me to possibly fail again sounds like a tragedy waiting to happen lol

Sigh. Days like this are so hard. I used to stick around because of an age goal I set for myself which sometimes felt like my only motivation. But it's just like nowadays I'm long past every age goal I've set and the plan was stay around until it started being inconvenient/not fun to be. Annd as of now it is looking mighty inconvenient. It makes me question why I'm even trying anymore. I never wanted to be here for this exact reason you know?

I feel like I'm just here atp. What am I working towards anymore? What do I even like to do? Do I honestly even like my hobbies or do I just like the distraction from my head? Even if everything fixed itself in the future and I started living a normal stable life, would it justify ignoring my damn near lifelong wish to not be here?

I'm gonna try to get R's attention and make sure she's not too fucked up then take a gram and head to bed. I am not mentally alright enough to have those questions circulating rn

HA apparently if I don't poof $400 up by Monday they're charging me damn near $600 extra

I am. Done. I just wanna sleep and not wakeup atp. I'm so done. I never wanted to be here in the first place and now I gotta drag myself out of an addiction, get over an unrequited love, find a job that fits my dad's parameters, pay off a mysterious 2k AND my 15k of loans. What the fuck. I never signed up for this and I would've ended my shit before my stupid fucking age goal had I known things would go to shit this quickly. I'm tired of feeling horrible for not wanting to do anything. I'm so tired of fighting myself to do the barest minimums and having it not be enough time and time again. I'm so fucking tired of all this up and down. God like. One day I'm in one of the best schools for engineering with hella open house money and the next I'm a fucking basement dwelling dropout with no money and no real desire to go out and do the shit that'll MAKE ME MONEY. And to top it off I'm fucking addicted to otc allergy medicine that is literally bottom of the barrel to the point that even WITH it being so accessible everyone knows how shit it is and leaves it alone. But not me ofc. My dumbass just had to screw up shit further. What is my problem at this point. This is my fault. I can't keep staying in this stupid limbo of barely doing anything but not having the guts to make that a reality. Atp I'm either gonna have to pick on or yhe other. My money's on the second but we'll see :)

#vent #update

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overseermartin · 3 years

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hello :) hope it's ok to ask. i saw your post earlier about how martin would've handled things very differently as high overseer [to which i agree!!] and you tagged it with how the coup in dh2 wouldn't have happened altogether if he was still in the picture, sooo any more thoughts on that??!

oh boy do i have some thoughts!!

i wrote a little essay/rant below, read at own risk.

tl;dr the Abbey is weak and i believe Martin would have made a better High Overseer

So it seems to me that a lot of the issues that led to the coup derive from the Abbey being weak. I get that the successor would have a hard time following Campbell’s corruption of the Abbey (using it for his own agenda, weaponizing faith, poisoning an institution that should be a guiding hand that inspires and protects the people from the Void into something that is feared and hated. I really hate Campbell and what he did to the Abbey okay) and that a lot of effort would have to go into restoring their reputation and building up trust among the people. And although the writers would have us believe Yul did that, I’d say that the fact the coup happened is evidence that he was not a strong leader.

Firstly, Duke Luca Abele is known to have no respect for the Abbey. A ruler of a country that has no faith and openly disdains the Abbey, is not a good look. If the leaders of an Empire are not faithful, it follows suit that the faith of the people will dwindle too. If the Abbey is to be unified against heresy, it is critical that they are at the forefront, standing behind the rulers, offering guidance and support. It is clear that that is not the case with Serkonos. Perhaps there was too much work to be done in Gristol, that Yul was preoccupied with matters closer to home, but again that is the sign of a weak leader. The High Overseer should not be focussed on one nation, one ruler, that is neglectful of the rest of the Empire. Martin would not miss these details. Martin would have intervened and brought the Duke’s lax attitude to faith to the Empress as a threat of heresy, that Luca was showing early signs of leaning toward the Void. Action would be taken. It is truly awful that the Duke of Serkonos was involved in a seance that brought Delilah back and the Abbey did not intervene.

Secondly, the Brigmore Witches were improperly handled. After Delilah was bound to the Void by Daud, it seems the witches quietly disbanded and dispersed across the Empire. Again, I’m aware that there was a lot going on in this time, with Emily retaking the throne and the plague being dealt with, but even so it should have been properly investigated and the witches found. Maybe not all, but enough to know who the key players are, and to bring them to justice. They have no powers to protect them when interrogated, so it would be easier to pry the truth from them. Breanna Ashworth should have been discovered and imprisoned. Maybe not immediately. Maybe not for years. But it baffles me how she was able to leave Dunwall for Serkonos and start the Royal Conservatory without anyone making the connection of who she is and the things she had done. And again, for her to gather a group of powerful allies to take part in a seance, is evidence that the Abbey failed to protect the people from heresy yet again.

I know I’m biased as a die-hard Martin stan; but I truly believe he would have been a fantastic High Overseer. Let’s not forget who was behind the Loyalists plot. Martin was behind every movement they made, every speech that Havelock listed off to Corvo before missions, it all came from Martin. He accounted for everything, missing no detail, and planned accordingly. He really was a master strategist. He would have led the Overseers with that same precision.

I headcanon Martin as being an Overseer who hunts out heresy, like the kind that investigates rumours and sniffs out shrines and bonecharms among the populace. He was stationed in the Estate District where he runs a small chapel, he delivers sermons and is a guiding voice for the faithful. He hold confessions and utilises this as a way to extract information and gather material for his investigations. It’s a role that is certainly weaponised by Campbell, a way to control the nobility, as it is so easy to plant heretical artifacts and have them imprisoned and (probably) killed for heresy. But it is one that Martin thrives in; he’s a charmer, it’s so easy to win people over and get them exposing all kinds of secrets. And his sharp mind would piece together a strategy to overcome any task he is set to, utilising every tool at his command, until the job is done. Martin “who knows everyone” has an intricate network of informants that would rival the Spymasters. Nothing is out of reach for him. With the title of High Overseer, he would be unstoppable.

So while I think Martin would have snuffed out any whispers of a coup before it even began, I also think he would have been better prepared for the attack of any Marked. Holger’s Devices would not have been broken down and put in storage (seriously? After a Marked killed the previous Empress? And another Marked almost took the mind of the current Empress? How does Corvo let that happen? Why does he relax and arrogantly believe Emily would be safe from another like him? Why have no precautions been put in place????) and instead further developed and improved. The Abbey is based on harnessing the power of man until it rivals that of the chaotic will of the Void (and it’s embodiment, the Outsider), I’ve said before about how incredible the existence of these devices is, and what that means for mankind. But if the Abbey can do that, then they can certainly do more. Seriously, a technology that protects against a god? That’s incredible. More of that line of thinking, and who knows what the Abbey could be capable of. Imagine a world where the Abbey is united with the Academy of Natural Philosophers? THE POSSIBILITIES??

If Martin had survived and continued to be High Overseer, not only do I think the coup would never have happened, I think the Empire would be stronger and more united than we see it in Dishonored 2. And I don’t think it would be down to Martin alone, I also think Daud would have made a fantastic Spymaster, which would greatly help with all of the above. Corvo should never have been Regent, Lord Protector, and Royal Spymaster combined. One man cannot do three jobs and do them well. Corvo failed the Empire with his arrogance and his complacency.

Wow this got really long, I am so sorry this is not what you asked for. I hope this rant made sense! I love Dishonored but I am not a fan of the following games, so I may have overlooked or oversimplified plot points that contradict this.

But hey - this is just my opinion, I would love to hear yours!!

#long post #asks #teague martin #the abbey of the everyman #the overseers #dishonored #meta #dishonored critical

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moongazer13 · 5 years

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Request : How the main avengers react upon you turning into dust

A/N: this was requested by @xmarveled, go check them out ❤️

Thanks for requesting. I didn't know whether you wanted to have romance in it as well, so I made it platonic. Hope you enjoy nonetheless! (I'm soooo sorry it literally took me one year, but uni has been stressful lately)

Warnings: Infinity War spoilers (duh), shitty writing, character death

It had taken you a long time to warm up to the team. Being the cautious, reserved person you were then had really had its effects on your relationship to the others. They just seemed so in tune and were fitting together like a jigsaw puzzle. You, on the other hand, used to think a lot about your uselessness and often wondered why they'd recruited you in the first place. But as time passed by, you had grown more and more comfortable in your own skin and around the team. Now, you got along really well with everyone.

That made the fateful day even more tragic.

It happened when you were hunting down Thanos. You ran next to the others and - despite the life- threatening situation you were in - felt ready and energised to fight Thanos with all that you got. But unfortunately, Thanos didn't exactly play by the rules. With one single snip of his fingers, everything was suddenly turned upside down.

🛡️ Was with you when it happened

🛡️Fell onto his knees, cradling your head

🛡️ he can't be fixed

🛡️ will 100% blame himself

🛡️ my soul is honestly crushed by the thought of him going through so much pain

🛡️ is very quit n reserved about it

💥 maybe even more shocked than Steve

💥 would've never thought you might be taken down by someone

💥 is crying

💥 although she never cries

💥 is going into battle with an terrific fierce

💥 bc she wants revenge from every single one of them

♦️ can't believe one of his plans actually failed

♦️ is already weak after all of his losses

♦️ overplays his feelings

♦️ but breaking apart a bit more when hearing of your death

♦️ he also truly recognised your worth in terms of glueing the team together

♦️ has to think of how you would've dealt with something better every time he does something

.. I'm aware those are not all of the main avengers, but it was kinda hard for me to write tbh, I just wasn't getting into the flow this time. I'm sorry! If you really want to, I could continue, but I feel like this is bad already sooo..

Anyways, I'm sorry 😂😭

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