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will80sbyers · 7 months

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These past few months, I've been so lost without you. It's just, I'm so different from other people, and…when you're- when you're different, sometimes…you feel like a mistake. But you make me feel like I'm not a mistake at all. Like I'm better for being different. And that gives me the courage to fight on. If I was mean to you, or it seemed like I was pushing you away, it's because I'm scared of losing you, like you're scared of losing her. And if I was going to lose you, I… I think I'd rather just get it over with quick. Like ripping off a Band-Aid. So, yeah, I need you, Mike... and I always will.

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #stranger things #stedit #byleredit #will80sbyersgifs #byler tumblr #st 4x08

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vivelegalite · 2 years

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EDIT: the script might have been fake, but i still stand by my interpretation!!

at long last, it is here! about 12 hours of work, culminated in this here google doc:

25 pages may seem daunting at first, but the word total is about 2.7k words, so the average length of a oneshot. there's just about 40 pictures to illustrate my points.

my analysis may not be groundbreaking, but i really do think i managed to get a pretty good grasp on what mike's thinking.

i've been told it's also pretty funny, so there's that also. my beta readers i am kissing you on the forehead gently

the doc is open to comments, and i'd love any and all notes y'all may have for me!

enjoy and stay delulu<3

check out my (much shorter!) post on the important distinction — i hate who i am/i hate myself

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aliferousdreamer · 2 years

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eddie really is the boromir to dustin's merry/pippin... and we all know what happened there 😭💔

#eddie munson #dustin henderson #volume 2 #stranger things spoilers #st s4 #st season 4 #st fandom #st spoilers #st4 spoilers #st4 #stranger things season 4 #stranger things #st s4 spoilers #st 4x08 #st vol 2

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sugarcubetikki · 2 years

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The show literally presents the reason to why Mike can't tell El he loves her initially is because he's insecure as El is so special whilst he's just some random nerd and he's scared that she won't need him anymore so he feels unworthy of her love. However, Mike realises that's not the case because he's told that El needs him, that El commissioned a painting for him planning every detail in it, that he's the heart of the group especially to El, that El felt lost without him because she's different and when you're different you can feel like a mistake but El feels like she isn't a mistake around him and she feels better for being different when he's around and that gives her the courage to fight on and that if El seemed mean or pushed him away it's because she was just as afraid to lose him like he was.

And that's what contributes to his development in terms of his relationship with El and that's what helps him grandly confess his love for her because he's reminded that he's "the heart" to her.

And the person telling him all of this isn't El. All of this doesn't come out of El's mouth as it should. It's his supposed best friend Will Byers telling him this and what his best friend Will Byers actually means telling Mike all this is that...

"I need you too. I made you this painting just like I used to make you art when we were kids, you're holding a heart shield on the painting because to me you're heart of the group you're everyone's emotional support you've always been the leader kept the party together since the very first day and without you we'd all fall apart especially me because you were always there for me when I was going through the hardest times you stood by me, supported me and believed me when I was possessed by the Mind Flayer. But we grew up and grew apart, I felt lost without you not just because I moved because you stopped reaching out I stopped reaching out and things were different between us because I'm different. I realised I'm not like you or the rest as we grew apart when you all got girlfriends and cared about nothing else. When you're different, you can feel like a mistake and I felt like that having these feelings for you was a mistake. I was supposed to grow up and get a girlfriend like you did but all I wanted to do is stay in your basement forever and play d&d with you to be honest. When I'm around you I feel better for being different and you give me the courage to fight on in every d&d game we've ever played and in real life that's why I didn't surrender not when I was taken nor when I took a risk for the party the night before. If I seemed mean or pushed you away, I was just as afraid to lose you like you said you were back in Lenora in my bedroom and I was so glad to hear that you felt the same way and that this isn't unfixable that we haven't completely grown apart and that the part of you that stayed by my side when we were younger is still in there somewhere."

Everything he said referred to his own feelings, not El's. It's unique to him and AS YOU CAN SEE I LITERALLY BACKED UP ALL HIS WORDS WITH HIS POSSIBLE THOUGHT PROCESSES IN THAT SCENE AND I BET YOU IF I TRIED TO DO THAT IN TERMS OF HOW IT WOULD LINE UP WITH EL OR MIKE I WOULD STRUGGLE TO DO THAT AS SPECIFICALLY BECAUSE THEIR RELATIONSHIP IS SO BASIC (imagine "I asked Will to make you this painting on my behalf because I can't paint as well as him and I know I lied in my letter about it possibly being for Will's crush but I wanted it to be a surprise" like please how does that even sound). The fact that a reminder of these words filled with Will's emotional intent helped drive the M*leven love confession because Mike thinks Will's words were actually El's will forever be the weirdest thing ever and I want to clown and say it's intentional because honestly what the hell was wrong with the writers during this volume they didn't do byler and can't even write m*leven properly why?!

#byler may not be canon but it'll always be canon in my head #stranger things 4 #stranger things #st4 spoilers #st 4x08 #st 4x09 #byler #will byers #mike wheeler #el hopper

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deanismysavior · 2 years

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4x08 Papa Script Breakdown

Hey everyone! I know we've all LONG been anticipating the Papa Script release, and it's finally here! I have the full script, so I'm going to be breaking down my full thoughts here as to what's going on in the Van Scene and in Mike's reunion moment with El.

Okay, so the first thing I want to clear up here is that the Van Scene is entirely in Will's POV. I know there's been some speculation on Mike's stage directions here, but again, the perspective here skews and distorts the meaning, so hopefully this analysis will give some perspective on what I believe the takeaway from this scene is.

So without further ado, let's jump into the most controversial section of the script first, because this bit has caused a lot of heat, but I don't think it's the bad thing it's been made out to be.

At the beginning of the Van Scene, we get this exchange happening between Mike and Will where Will is suggesting that they have El use her powers in Vegas so he and Mike can sit around and play D&D and Nintendo for the rest of their lives and Mike says "Yeah, totally" with the stage direction here saying "(insincerely)"

This is important to note because the "Uh..." IS in reference to Mike (kind of like a record skip in his head) and the "(insincerely)" stage direction is the ONLY unbiased stage direction we get in regards to Mike's feelings in these scenes. The rest of these interpretations are all Will's POV.

Now, if you've read my Brokeback Mountain × Byler parallels analysis, you'll know that I have talked about the subtext of the rain fight in which Will suggests something similar, that his desired life with Mike is to sit around and play games in Mike's basement forever, that he always just wanted it to be himself and Mike, but during the rain fight, Mike rejects that idea because he believes that the relationship he has with Will, as well as playing games like DnD and Nintendo, is something he has to leave behind in order to grow up. Will believes Mike views him as childish, and then goes to destroy Castle Byers because he feels stupid for wanting that life with Mike.

Will is bringing up his desired life with Mike again in the Van Scene here. He wants to know after they've grown closer again if Mike could be open to that possibility, and so when Mike says, "Yeah, totally," in an insincere way, Will is viewing this once again as a rejection of that desired life. It's WILL who believes he made things awkward and interprets that Mike believes that he is childish for wanting to play DnD, and this acts as a callback to the destruction of Castle Byers and Will calling himself "stupid."

This is why we then get the direction that Will senses the change in the vibe but misinterprets the motive behind it, because Will views this as Mike not being open to the possibility of their playing DnD and Nintendo forever, that Mike is not open to the possibility of WILL, so he interprets that Mike is thinking about El here when he's not.

Though we don't get any indication of what Mike is ACTUALLY thinking about, my guess here is that he just doesn't believe that it's possible for him to have the life that Will wants. Just like in season 3, Mike feels as though he's still expected to grow out of these things, so when Will brings it up, Mike is confused and disappointed because he doesn't think he can have that. If you watch the scene back, the way Finn plays the scene does not line up with the interpretation that Mike thinks Will is stupid for bringing it up. While this COULD fall to acting choices, I think they probably would have directed Finn to deliver it a bit differently if we were supposed to think Mike was scoffing at Will.

So Will shifts the entire conversation over to being about El, not Mike. He's reading his best interpretation of why Mike is upset, and he believes that Mike doesn't want to break up with El and that he's happy being in that relationship, so this is when he decides to switch gears and makes the painting about El instead of himself. Will is looking to rip off that Band-aid.

When we get to this bit where Will shifts the conversation to El, Mike seems to start explaining his insecurity and his own uncertainty about his relationship with El. He's expressing how unbalanced the dynamic feels to him. That he doesn't feel like El really needs him, but Will is missing what Mike really means here. Will is interpreting this as Mike needing reassurance, and in a way, Mike sort of does, but NOT in the way Will is thinking. Mike's thoughts here about El not needing him anymore, "after all this is over," I think heavily hint toward Mike attempting to explain that he's uncertain how El is going to take his truth. That yes, he still wants El to need him, but that he's not the person she needs. Will misunderstands Mike, thinking that he wants El to still need him in his relationship with El, but I don't really think this is the direction Mike's thoughts were going. So when we get this "We've been over this already" stage direction, it's made clear to us that Will thinks this is an extension of the conversation he had with Mike after Mike gets El's letter in El's bedroom, but Mike is actually continuing the conversation that he had with Will on top of the car in the junkyard, "Because what if they don't like the truth?"

And here, Mike is revealing his truth to Will, that his relationship with El was "simple, dumb luck" and not this great destined love story.

So when we get to this part about Mike saying "It's so stupid, given everything that's going on. It's just...I don't know." This scene mimics what Robin says to Steve earlier in this episode, that with everything going on, the stakes of her love life feel spectacularly low. Just like Robin, Mike is feeling selfish for centering his feelings here because he's attempting to look at the bigger picture. He thinks it's stupid to be considering his own happiness or lack thereof because El is about to have to save the world again, and he's putting aside his own internal struggles because he doesn't think his feelings really matter.

And when Will says, "You're scared of losing her," Mike nods, because he IS scared of losing El. But he's not scared of losing his relationship with El, he's scared of losing his place in her life if he puts his own feelings at the forefront here, if he acknowledges that his happiness matters.

So then we get to the painting reveal, and this is HUGE because there's so much that's going on here:

While this is still Will's POV and he's interpreting Mike's reactions, here, from the way that the scene plays out visually, we can tell that Mike finding the painting stunning is genuine, and there's a few things that that says:

1) We get a callback to the DnD line here with the VISUAL of the painting

Mike was NOT rejecting Will's idea of playing DnD and Nintendo for the rest of their lives in his basement because he thought Will was childish, and this proves it: Mike is absolutely glowing at seeing the visual representation of Will's desired life laid out here. Mike has been conditioned to believe that his wants to play DnD and engage in fantasy are something he has to give up, but he doesn't WANT to give them up, and that's so clear because Mike still keeps all of Will's DnD art up in his basement and in his room. Mike joined Hellfire and invested all this time into Eddie's campaign. He wasn't mocking Will, he was sad because he believed he couldn't have this, but now Will is giving him this painting that says everything about what Mike secretly wants, what he's been holding onto since Will left.

2) Mike is glowing because this painting is showing him that he matters

His whole conversation leading up to this scene is about his feeling inferior to El and about his putting his own happiness on the back-burner, but now he sees how he believes Will views him (since this is before Will tells him the painting is from El, which of course, it's not actually), as the hero who is leading the party. As someone who is gallant and brave, not someone who is weak in comparison to Superman or who doesn't matter.

3) Mike is overjoyed because he thinks this painting is from Will.

He's been feeling Will pull away from him since he left Hawkins, and now he's so overcome because he realizes that Will has been thinking about him the entire time and that he's just as important to Will as Will is to him. We know this because Mike follows this by asking "Did you paint this?" and his inflection in the scene is full of wonderment.

But when Mike opens the painting and Will sees his reaction, Will gets scared. He feels the need to backtrack because he still thinks that Mike wants to save his relationship with El. So we then get the stage directions here of Will attempting to "Act cool"

He kind of backs out here. He's trying not to engage with Mike romantically because he's so afraid that Mike will reject him that he's basically rejecting himself. And that's so clear from the further stage directions we get. At first, Will moves closer to Mike when explaining the painting, but that's only because he's using El as a guise and he's trying to get the message across to Mike that Mike does matter, but when Will feels himself start to trip up, to put too much of HIS emotions into telling Mike he matters, he "retreats."

Mike here is maintaining this closeness with Will, in fact, Will has Mike's whole attention, but Will can't really see past his own nose here because he thinks that revealing his whole truth means losing Mike, so once again, Will pushes Mike away, literally turning himself away from the intimacy of this moment, that Mike is completely open to.

Will is doing a lot of projecting in this scene, because Will hates himself, and so he believes that if Mike knew what he was, Mike would hate him too.

So when we get to this little exchange here, I think there's so much that could be going on, and this is perhaps the hardest scene to really gauge the full extent of what Mike is thinking/feeling

There are two main ways I think we can read this:

1) That Mike doesn't know these are Will's feelings

If that's the case, I think he's more confused in this scene because what's being shown to him (the painting, Will's art, and Will's perception of him), is not the same thing he's being told (that El cares about and needs him), which causes Mike to experience the narrative dissonance in this scene

2) Mike gets a sense Will is talking about himself, but is confused that Will believes he could lose Mike

If you've read my other analysis posts, then you know my take is that I believe Mike has always seen their friendship as being lost because Will stopped communicating with him, and not the other way around. So when Will is saying that if he's going to lose Mike, he'd rather do it quick, like ripping off a Band-aid, Mike could be not getting it because he's always been there and he could never just abandon Will, and if we read it this way, then it would nicely mirror what Jonathan tells Will later in the Surfer Boy Pizza scene.

I think either way we read this, Mike is hoping that these are Will's feelings.

He's being reassured here by Will that he won't lose El, but he's also being reassured that he won't lose Will. So it's ambiguous, and Mike is relieved I think to hear both, but he's still somewhat uncertain of the outcome of what Will is trying to say.

So from these deductions, I'm not convinced he was going to tell El he loved her at Surfer Boy Pizza. I think he was maybe ready to explain some of what he was feeling and would have probably asked her about the painting there, so that he could know for sure one way or the other.

Mike is still holding hope here that these are Will's feelings while Will thinks that he just ripped off the Band-aid and that Mike will now be happy with El without his feelings standing in the way.

It's not until the love confession that I believe Mike fully believes that maybe the painting was from El all along because Will is rejecting him and pushing him back to his relationship with El.

Let's digest that for a bit.

Okay? Okay. Now let's move on to the reunion scenes:

The first is between Mike and El:

Notice Mike calls her Eleven here again and not El? I just think that's interesting considering that Mike gave her the nickname El as an affectionate gesture in s1 and now he's consistently referring to her as Eleven throughout s4.... (which, she literally just escaped from Brenner's lab again, so this is 100% intentional mirroring of Mike and Brenner again)

Anyway, El is kind of out of it when Mike gets to her, and there's this interesting pause that happens between her and Mike before she embraces him. Now this COULD be just because she's dazed, but the fact that the stage directions stand in such stark contrast to how she embraces Will I think are telling. This pause I think is hinting to lack of resolution in their relationship, and the "WARM AND INVITING" physical presence here I really think just points to relief that they're both safe and a shared happiness to not have lost one another. It's familiar and comfortable.

However, her reunion with Will is packed with more emotion, not just visually, but in the script as well:

She pauses to embrace Mike but "rushes" to Will. And their shared bond being not of this world....definitely hints, among other things in this script, to Will's supernatural arc next season.

The description of this hug being so much stronger and more gripping than the hug between Mike and El I think also really hints to El's focus: she needs familial bonds. Will feels like home to her. And this is all the proof I need to point toward El recognizing that she's displaced her own needs to be loved onto Mike.

I really believe that so much of this points to a mutual, but separate recognition for both Mike and El that their relationship is not what either of them needs or desires anymore. The only one who doesn't recognize this is Will.

Hope you enjoyed this breakdown! Let me know your thoughts on all of this!

#byler #byler script #papa script #4x08 script #byler nation #byler endgame #stranger things #st #stranger things analysis #papa script analysis #byler script analysis #st4 #stranger things 4 #mike wheeler #will byers #mike wheeler i know what you are #will byers is gay

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buddiebeginz · 2 years

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I care about Max and I’d love for Billy to come back so they could have the relationship they deserved but I’m so angry that she told Lucas she didn’t want to involve a stranger in all they were dealing with because they wouldn’t have any idea what was going on. That’s exactly what happened with Billy in season 3 and no one not even Max told him what was happening or tried to help him.

#billy hargrove #st spoilers #sth!#billy #bfan #billy s4 #billy and max #stranger things s4 #stranger things 4x08

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rodpower78 · 2 years

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He's the Starsky to my Hutch.

Joyce Byers

#joyce byers #quote #murray bauman #stranger things #netflix #st spoilers #partners in crime #episode 4x08 #papa

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shinelikethunder · 6 months

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kripke: show creator; seasons 1-5 showrunner; wrote or co-wrote 1x01 pilot, 1x02 wendigo, 1x09 home, 1x16 shadow, 1x22 devil’s trap, 2x01 in my time of dying, 2x22 all hell breaks loose part two, 3x01 the magnificent seven, 3x16 no rest for the wicked, 4x01 lazarus rising, 4x07 it's the great pumpkin, sam winchester, 4x10 heaven and hell (story), 4x22 lucifer rising, 5x01 sympathy for the devil, 5x09 the real ghostbusters, 5x22 swan song, 6x22 the man who knew too much; directed 2x20 what is and what should never be, 4x22 lucifer rising

gamble: seasons 6-7 showrunner; wrote or co-wrote 1x03 dead in the water, 1x12 faith, 1x14 nightmare, 1x21 salvation, 2x03 bloodlust, 2x08 crossroad blues, 2x13 houses of the holy, 2x17 heart, 2x21 all hell breaks loose part one, 3x02 the kids are alright, 3x07 fresh blood, 3x10 dream a little dream of me, 3x12 jus in bello, 3x15 time is on my side, 4x02 are you there god? it’s me, dean winchester, 4x09 i know what you did last summer, 4x17 it’s a terrible life, 4x21 when the levee breaks, 5x02 good god, y'all, 5x07 the curious case of dean winchester, 5x13 the song remains the same, 5x21 two minutes to midnight, 6x01 exile on main st, 6x11 appointment in samarra, 6x21 let it bleed, 7x01 meet the new boss, 7x10 death's door, 7x17 the born-again identity, 7x23 survival of the fittest

edlund: wrote 2x05 simon said, 2x12 nightshifter, 2x18 hollywood babylon, 3x03 bad day at black rock, 3x09 malleus maleficarum, 3x13 ghostfacers, 4x05 monster movie, 4x08 wishful thinking, 4x16 on the head of a pin, 5x04 the end, 5x10 abandon all hope, 5x14 my bloody valentine, 5x20 the devil you know, 6x03 the third man, 6x09 clap your hands if you believe, 6x15 the french mistake, 6x20 the man who would be king, 7x02 hello cruel world, 7x09 how to win friends and influence monsters, 7x15 repo man, 7x21 reading is fundamental, 8x05 blood brother, 8x13 everybody hates hitler, 8x21 the great escapist; directed 6x20 the man who would be king, 7x21 reading is fundamental

#supernatural #eric kripke #sera gamble #ben edlund

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aliferousdreamer · 2 years

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some of you really need to stop talking about my girl el hopper. i'm so tired of her agency being ignored, her growth shunned and her entire story chalked down to her "needing a man" and "depending on mike" because that's so far from the truth. her story in the entirety of s4 was about much more than her love life; it was about confronting her demons, finding her self-worth, using love to empower her instead of anger/pain, leaving her abuser behind and realizing that she's not the monster she's always feared she has been (plus so much more). it's like people are looking for every reason to tear down her story/character/meaning/relationships when she's done nothing to deserve it.

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