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adjit · 11 months

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So what really happened in Red Robin between Dick and Tim?

Because I am constantly seeing misrepresentations of it, I want to talk about the actual events of Red Robin, and Dick and Tim's relationship during it. It's a favorite storyline for fandom to use and riff on, and so for people who haven't read the source, it's hard to know what is canon and what is fanon.

Honestly? It might be easier to just go read the issues. The majority of what I'm going to discuss here all happens in the first 4 issues of Red Robin (though I cover some stuff through the first 12), and I enjoyed that entire run, but if you'd rather hear a random internet user tell ya their take on it, read on.

This is going under a cut because it's long. But TLDR? Dick is not the bad guy in this situation. No one is the bad guy in this situation. If we had to name one... poor coping skills? And though they do fight, they ultimately reconcile because Tim and Dick are brothers who love each other.

Damian

First things first, let's talk about Damian. Did Dick give Robin to Damian without even informing Tim, so Tim had to find out by Damian showing up in the Robin costume? Not exactly.

So, some technicalities. Damian had worn the costume before the infamous Batcave scene. In Batman: Battle for the Cowl #3, he's given it by Alfred and goes with Squire to save Tim. So, not only has Damian worn the costume before, Tim has seen it.

However, arguably this is also before Dick has accepted the mantle, so the scene in the cave is still notable as it is Dick specifically informing Tim that Damian will be his Robin. And Tim had also worn the costume out for a one-time rescue months before he officially became Robin (also enabled by Alfred), so I'm still of the idea that the cave scene is The Scene about the Robin mantle being passed down.

That being the case, I'm still going to defend Dick anyway.

Firstly, he told Tim before Damian showed up. But it's true that he didn't give Tim a choice, and that Tim was NOT okay with it.

Damian shows up and talks some shit, Tim punches him in the face, and then storms out.

Overall, it went pretty terribly! But I'm of the opinion that there was no good ending here. Damian needs the family connection that the mantle of Robin would give him in order to feel accepted, not to mention the close supervision that the duo of Batman and Robin would provide. But Tim is extremely attached to Robin 14 years after this comic and he still hasn't given it up and would never be happy being asked to give it up, especially when he's already lost so many things. One of them was going to end up unhappy. (Fwiw, I'm of the opinion that Dick is right, and Damian needs Robin a lot more than Tim does. But that doesn't mean that that decision wouldn't hurt Tim, too.)

Arguably, Dick could have been a bit nicer when doing this, but let's be fair to Dick: his father figure has just died, and suddenly he has to be Batman, and he now has a young child he is partly in charge of. That's a lot to be dumped on his lap, not to mention that he didn't want to be Batman (he initially refused despite Bruce's wishes, and only took it on after basically being forced to after Jason tried to take on the mantle, killed a bunch of people, and injured both Damian and Tim), and said child is a highly traumatized child who is still in the process of basically cult de-conditioning! So Tim could also be asked to be a lot more understanding than he's being. But Tim's too wrapped up in his own grief to see that. Just like Dick's too wrapped up in his own issues to properly deal with Tim.

He has a lot of shit going on and he can't juggle it all. Tim is coping incredibly poorly with his own circumstances. They clash and neither comes out happy. It sucked. But to say that Dick is the bad guy here... He made the best decision he could when given no right options. I do think that he made a mistake here in his approach, but to call his entire relationship with Tim into question due to it... doesn't make as much sense to me (especially because of the events which follow!)

Self-isolation

So, did everyone abandon Tim? Did his family forget him and leave him out to dry?

Absolutely not. The opposite, really. Tim pushed everyone away, despite them repeatedly reaching out to him.

One thing to note about Tim here is that he is self-isolating extremely hard. Even after their argument about Robin, Dick keeps trying to reach out to Tim. Tim pushes him away. Tim pushes everyone away. And this is not even subtle- it's shown in the text very clearly.

Multiple people try to talk to Tim, and Tim absolutely refuses them.

Tim is pissed even at the idea that Dick might be checking up on him. And Tim and Steph's relationship is super rocky right now, and he takes her concern for him poorly. Part of that can be attributed to an ongoing fight between them, a lack of trust implicit there, but combined with everything else it's also clearly Tim pushing away all of his lifelines.

Cassie also comes to try to check on him- after he dodges her attempts to contact him, she flies all the way to Gotham. But when told that a man who everyone knows as dead, and whose body was recovered and buried, is still alive, she doesn't believe him. (And considering Cassie has already dealt with Tim's grief regarding Conner and his suuuuuper rational reaction there, one might understand even more why she doesn't believe him right away.) And Tim immediately pushes her away for it. He doesn't try to give her any explanation, doesn't respond to her concern, he just immediately cuts the cord.

(And just a note that when Cassie doesn't know who else to turn to about Tim? She turns to Dick! Because she knows how important Dick is to Tim. And yes, right now Tim is mad at Dick and resents that Steph and Cassie go to him, but that doesn't change the fact that when people think about caring for Tim, Dick is the first person they go to.)

Dick and Tim's argument

Did Dick refuse to believe Tim, despite Tim having evidence, call him crazy and threaten to throw him in Arkham? NOPE.

That is entirely fanon. And one of the more pervasive, and annoying, misrepresentations of Dick's character, as it causes people to talk shit about him.

So. What actually happened? (We're getting into full pages here because I am not letting anyone get this conversation twisted.)

Dick shows up and speaks to Tim compassionately, though decisively, about the fact that Bruce is dead and they need to learn to move on and deal with that grief in a healthy manner. He then offers help to Tim once more, and is rejected, Tim instead opting to start a fight in classic emotionally-repressed Bat tradition. (Which, sidenote, do you think they do this just so that panels during a long conversation are more dynamic instead of two people standing there talking to each other?)

Tim pleads his case to Dick....to an extent. Notice, however, that he never mentions that he has any reason to believe what he does. Doesn't even try to convince Dick to believe him, really. Just insists that he's right after he makes a good case on why he does in fact sound crazy.

And then, Dick offers help. He suggests that Tim talk to a therapist. This person is, notably, NOT ARKHAM ASYLUM. Isn't even secretly Arkham, because they're in Metropolis!

And, frankly, the idea that someone suggesting therapy to his brother who is dealing poorly with grief has been equated to "calling him crazy and trying to get him thrown in jail/committed" is absolutely bonkers to me. I know that it's more likely that someone escalated the stakes for drama in their fanfic or something, and for some reason that's the version that circulated, but from here to there is a LEAP. And for people to claim it's canon is frustrating to say the least.

And finally. Tim tells Dick to let him leave. And Dick does. Dick stops trying to stop Tim, and lets him go. He trusts in Tim enough to let him do what he thinks is right, even if Dick himself disagrees. He does it because Tim asks him to.

Is it a mistake? Maybe. Does it make Tim forgive Dick for choosing Damian as his Robin? Definitely not. But it's very clearly not because he doesn't care, not because he's too busy to pay attention to Tim. It's an act of respect, of treating Tim as an equal who is capable of making his own decisions. In that way, it's showing his trust to Tim.

I have an entirely separate post on the subject of why Dick not believing Tim is narratively supported to make later (EDIT: posted here!), so I'm gonna go on a little Tim rant here instead. Because this post isn't long enough.

During this time, Tim is consistently begging for people to believe in him, while also refusing to play all his cards. The picture that started his hunch is never brought up. Frankly, I'm not sure that even if he did show it to everyone that people would believe him, but I think it's telling that he doesn't.

First, I kind of see it as Tim engaging in a "relationship test". They're the kind of thing that only people who are deeply insecure or in a bad place think to do- if I stop talking to all my friends, how long will it take people to notice? Who's going to notice that I'm upset without me saying anything, who really cares about me? If I share an insane theory, who is going to believe me point blank?

They're the kind of thing that is....not healthy in any way, shape, or form, and really aren't fair to the people you're testing. Sure, someone "passing" the test may show that they care for you (and, ultimately, the only person who believes Tim without reservation is Kon, once he comes back- and that unquestioning belief and loyalty is meaningful), but "failing" the test doesn't mean that they don't care. And they're ultimately a sort of self-sabotage, because you know that most people are going to fail because you know the test is unfair.

And that's exactly what it is: self-sabotage. As previously mentioned, Tim is massively self-isolating during this part of the arc, and pushing people away because they "don't believe him" is just one facet of that self-isolation. But he also doesn't try to get them to believe him, doesn't even give them that chance, because his ultimate goal is not to actually get anyone on his side, but to push everyone away. That's not to say that he secretly doesn't want people to believe him, but... he's acting mostly irrationally. He wants people to believe him but won't let them close enough to meaningfully give them the chance to do so.

Second, as much as Tim says that he's positive he's right and he's going to prove it, he's straight up lying, and he's actually not that sure at this point. And he's probably terrified that if he does show his proof, that someone will see it and still not believe him, and he'll have to face the fact that his only piece of evidence is extremely flimsy and that his conviction is based much more on grief than it actually is on logic.

So. Yeah, no one believes him. And that does suck, and it's a hit to him. But he didn't exactly give them a chance. He's preemptively cutting people out before they have a chance to hurt him or point out where he's wrong.

Tim is still a pitiable character here. He's a disaster and a wet puddle of a man who is living through the worst time in his entire life. But he's not a poor victim, scorned by his family and the world at large, thought to be crazy for no reason at all! Instead, he's (much more interestingly, imo) a kid dealing with his grief incredibly poorly, self-isolating and refusing every outstretched hand, clinging desperately on to his last hope that maybe his world hasn't changed as much as it seems like it has.

Blackest Night

Blackest Night is a huge crossover event that happened during the Red Robin run; technically speaking, you can skip it without missing anything in the plot of Red Robin, but it does have some good moments that highlight Tim's mental state and his relationship with Dick.

So, Tim leaves Gotham, but when Black Lantern Rings start bringing a bunch of people back from the dead in the form of zombies, including Dick and Tim's parents, Dick calls him back to Gotham. And Tim, looking at the decaying zombie corpse of his parents, is also arguing that he can save them.

When faced with an evil zombie that is trying to kill him, Tim still says "I can still fix this, I can save him". And Dick, as compassionately as ever, tries to talk sense into him. It's the exact same situation as with Bruce, but this time Tim is absolutely wrong.

And with this situation as a parallel, I think it's a lot clearer how unreasonable Tim's mental state is. He might seem like he's just a misunderstood genius in Bruce's case because he happened to be right, but the fact of the matter is, he's not thinking clearly. And he'd cling onto the same hopes even when he's wrong. With Bruce's case, he got lucky.

Also! This panel.

Even with all of this between them, Tim still answers Dick that he trusts him, with no hesitation. Of course.

Reconciliation

So, does Tim come back to Gotham, replaced and forgotten, and become isolated from the rest of the Bats?

Nope! There is, actually, a reconciliation of sorts between Dick and Tim. Admittedly, there is no scene where Dick outright says he's sorry, and Tim says he forgives him. But in my reading, there are interactions that serve a similar purpose, if you read between the lines.

After Tim finds proof of what's been going on with Batman, had a whole thing with the League and the Council of Spiders, and blown up a bunch of League bases, he returns to Gotham where Ra's is enacting a plan to get revenge for Tim acting against him: destroying Batman's legacy. Everything he loved and everything he built is in the crosshairs.

And when he's trying to figure out what Ra's is planning, he meets back up with Dick.

Tim is spewing crazy theories, and with absolutely no proof or explanation, he turns to Dick and asks him to trust him. And this time, Dick tells him, Of course. The fraction between them that preceded Tim's departure from Gotham is repeated, and this time Dick tells Tim he trusts him, and asks what he can do to help.

(This time, Dick does call Tim crazy, while he's muttering to himself. And then he chooses to trust him anyway.)

Granted, this is not an actual apology. But it feels like a second chance. One more bid for connection, and this time Dick meets him in the middle and reciprocates.

Anyway, since when do siblings actually verbally say "I'm sorry"?

And then... quick summary, in case you want the real details for the following events:

Ra's sends assassins after all the people Batman cares about to distract Tim from the fact that he's getting Hush (who is impersonating Bruce Wayne) to sign over Wayne Enterprises. But Tim wins because he finally stops self-isolating and gets his many friends to protect everyone who needs protecting while Tim faces off against Ra's. (Which is, ultimately, a climax of his character arc for this story- reaching out and trusting people again. Team up guy back in action!)

Tim's able to keep Ra's busy long enough that Lucius can file the paperwork to make him the majority shareholder of Wayne Enterprises, thwarting Ra's' attempt at a takeover. However, Ra's wins the fight, and Tim ends up plummeting to his death out of the window.

And then Dick catches him.

Later, Dick asks Tim how he could have planned for Dick to be there to save him.

And Tim says "You're my brother, Dick. You'll always be there for me."

This scene has been talked to death, because most people are at a consensus: this is a fucking lie. Tim didn't know that Dick would be there, and was fully prepared to die.

However! I'm not here to rehash this. I just want to add my take. It's a lie, but. Tim is a good liar. And every good liar knows that the best lies have a grain of truth in them.

I do believe that Tim didn't know that anyone would be there to save him. But I also believe that he fully means what he says here, that it's not just to placate Dick. Tim is telling Dick that he trusts him, that he believes in him, that they're brothers. It's forgiveness.

I could keep citing all the places where Tim shows an unconditional belief in Dick that happen after this arc, to prove that their relationship is truly mended after this and that they don't continue fighting, but that happens often enough that you could just read any comic including Tim and Dick and I'm sure Tim will say some fanboy shit eventually.

So, that's it! If you take nothing else from this post, take this at least: Tim and Dick LOVE each other, and they might fight, but they forgive each other, and if you try to talk shit about Dick Grayson, Tim will be one of the first to fight you, guaranteed. Suffice to say:

#Tim Drake #Dick Grayson #Batman #Red Robin #dc comics #batfandom #this post is half Dick defense half I can't shut up about Tim #actually half of this is just summarizing red robin and then a fourth is dick defense and a fourth is me rambling about tim #and like...fandom is transformative and ultimately if you want to make Dick your bad guy you Can #but at least know what the original was and where you're differing so that is a Choice and not just something you do bc it's what's done #I originally was going to delve into Dick and Tim's relationship in general #including first meeting and Tim's Robin tenure #(parts of it at least there's a lot of Robin time)#(and I haven't finished the Robin comics oop)#but this post got out of hand. So now it's just a recounting of what happened in Red Robin with my analysis of the text and their relations #and it's still a Lot #also I haven't read ALL the batman comics leading up to this arc so if I'm missing any context I'd love to hear about it!#mostly I know I'm missing some stuff with his beef with steph

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