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thatswhatsushesaid · 1 year

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I see a bunch of commentary in the jgy character tags on the regular that always zero in on the torture that jgy did for wrh like that was something he could've just... chosen not to do, somehow. "ohhh he killed and tortured people, he probably enjoyed it, what a yuckydisgusting fiend" blah blah blah you know those takes, I'm not going to bother rehashing them in this post because I don't want to talk about that right now.

(but, as an aside: nevermind the sect leader yaos of the jianghu probably wouldn't be alive to speculate over this "jgy was hot for torturing ~innocent people~" nonsense if jgy hadn't been in the literal torture dungeons getting his hands dirty long enough for wrh to feel comfortable enough turning his back on him. anyway--)

imo the way more interesting thing to speculate about is just how jgy managed to get that intelligence out to lxc as consistently and effectively as he did. because it wasn't planned!! lxc even makes it clear in nmj's empathy chapter when he steps in to prevent nmj from literally chopping off meng yao's head (you know, after meng yao saves his life):

so there are a couple of things that I find interesting about this exchange:

lxc says "after [the] incident at langya, a-yao felt remorse, but he was afraid he might run into you. he could only manage to sneak into the qishan wen sect..." which does suggest, to me, that he and lxc had some communication of some kind in the duration between nmj and my's confrontation over the slain jin sect commander and their grisly reunion here in the scorching sun palace. the way lxc explains himself suggests that he and my may have even had a face-to-face encounter post-langya while my was trying to figure out what his next steps would be, but prior to his time embedded with the qishan wen. the main reason I suspect this is because it would have been far too risky for my to communicate anything that transparently identifying about his circumstances or his personal motivations in his letters to lxc from qishan. it's one thing to use coded language and ciphers to communicate logistics around battle grounds, plans, maps, and troop formations/movements; it's harder to use code and ciphers to communicate the complexities and nuances of a failing interpersonal relationship. the risks would be too high with the potential reward far too little, so I just don't think it's realistic to think my would have gone for this.

which just leaves me sitting here wondering what those "few clues" and "coincidence or two" in the letters lxc received from this this anonymous source must have been, and just /clenches teeth in ride-or-die xiyao anguish, we will never know, will we 💀💀💀

#mdzs meta #jin guangyao #lan xichen #he did crimes??? good for him 😌#flute solo 🎶#xiyao

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robininthelabyrinth · 2 years

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Mini fill prompt: WRH likes singing

Wen Ruohan hadn’t sung in years, least of all in public where someone might hear it and mock him for having low-class taste, behaving like some cheap entertainer, but that didn’t mean he didn’t still have a taste for music. Especially good music, the type that got your blood running hot.

He liked that feeling.

“Play it again,” he lazily ordered his newest servant, Meng Yao, who with a by-now rictus grin started up the same tune on the guqin once again – Wen Ruohan had no idea if this was the tenth repetition or the hundredth, though he suspected it was closer to the latter than the former if the blistered state of Meng Yao’s fingers were any evidence. “Again. No, faster. Don’t slow down, you’ll mess up the pacing that way. You want that job in my Fire Palace, don’t you..?”

People thought that he’d promoted Meng Yao based on his facility for torture, which was in fact at least part of the reason, but his willingness to indulge Wen Ruohan’s musical mania far past the point of reason was certainly a recommendation in his favor. It was unlikely that Meng Yao would ever reach the heights of perfection Wen Ruohan had once reached with Lan Qiren, who fell into trances upon learning a new piece and would repeat it literally thousands of times without stopping if no one interrupted him to remind him to eat, deaf and dumb and blind to anything else in the world beyond his playing – he didn’t even notice when Wen Ruohan sang, which made him the only safe person to sing in front of – but he was certainly an adequate substitute for the time being.

Perhaps…perhaps he could even be coaxed into being more.

“Do you know musical cultivation?” Wen Ruohan asked, and smiled when Meng Yao shook his head in negation. “Would you like to learn?”

#mdzs #wen ruohan #jin guangyao #meng yao #my fic #my fics #alt headcanons

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plan-d-to-i · 3 years

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Since I stalk the Wen Ruohan tag on here as well as ao3 and Twitter (I confess I'm a vilain f*cker I can't resist that evil dilf lol) I noticed lately some strange trends

The 1st one is the rise of the WRH/YZY fics, because people truly believe the reason YZY's marriage was so miserable and shitty was because of JFM somehow and not her toxic abusive ass and that YZY would be able to form a healthier happier relationship with anyone else especially someone like WRH who can and will have her head rolling down the stairs of his Palace if she tried to treat him half as bad as she did JFM. If YZY had married anyone else I doubt she would last a year of marriage, it's no surprise she picked JFM because he was the most likely to put up with her sh*t without retaliation. Another similar trend I noticed is the JC/WRH fics which is just ewww but it's even more weird when they make WRH the "good" father figure for JC because JFM is just sooo abusive and neglectful to poor baby grape that the tyrant who gave us Wen Chao is somehow a better father than him

Idk I feel my man JFM gets more shit than he deserves from this Fandom. Like once I saw a post of someone saying that if they could kill 3 characters in mdzs to make everyone's lives better it would be: WRH, JGS, JFM. I get the 1st two but what did JFM do to be on the same level as them? It's just strange to me how so many people hate JFM only because he saved an orphan from the streets and gave him a home and maybe sometimes praised him for doing good and wasn't madly in love with the woman who forced him to marry her and then treated him like shit all the time

"I confess I'm a vilain f*cker I can't resist that evil dilf lol"

- lol - Respect. <3

Honestly I'm surprised they didn't say they'd kill JFM, WWX, and LWJ. Then they can try to make jc the one true mc! and the book can be called: the Grandmaster of Greed, Hatred and Ignorance :*･゜ﾟ･*☆.

I've seen the "Wen Ruohan would be a better father to sad grape bby jiang cheng >:-/ than evil JFM" discourse and I think it's absolutely hilarious. On one hand JFM gently corrects jc about not letting people die and jc stans are like "OMG abuSE!", even though JFM is your average reserved dad, and YZY is clearly the one who pours all that poison in jc's ear about his father's love being lacking. But yeah let's look at Wen Ruohan:

There were also a few instruments of torture. Iron rings, sharp spikes, silver hooks—all seemed strange. Just looking at their appearance could make one shiver in fear. Wei WuXian knew that these were probably made by Jin GuangYao. The QishanWen Sect’s leader, Wen RuoHan, had a moody, violent personality. He loved the sight of blood and sometimes took enjoyment in torturing those that offended him. Jin GuangYao was only able to capture Wen RuoHan’s interest by catering to his needs, making all sorts of cruel yet amusing devices. (Chapter 47) Meng Yao, “That’s right. It was him. Sect Leader, are you going to kill your foe right now, or drag him to the Fire Palace? My personal suggestion is to take him to the Fire Palace.” The “Fire Palace” was Wen RuoHan’s playground. It was where he collected thousands of torture devices for tormenting people. This meant that Meng Yao was unwilling to give Nie Mingjue a straightforward death. Meng Yao wanted to take him to Wen RuoHan’s torturing grounds and forge him through the devices that he himself had made until he finally died.

YES! Wen Ruohan who loved the sight of blood, whose love language was instruments of torture, and whose playground was a TORTURE PALACE would really be a soft fuzzy father to whiny, needy jc w his uninspiring cultivation. He'd probably carry him in his arms around the torture palace and they'd laugh over all the torture instruments- just father son things. WRH would definitely let YZY's Clan pressure him into marrying her and then permit YZY to scream at him in front of servants and treat Wen Clan like she's better than it. He definitely wouldn't raze Meishan Yu to the ground. On the other hand are jc stans saying that Wen Ruohan, an unhinged, abusive, power obsessed maniac, who doesn't give af about the common ppl, with a hard on for torture is more suited to jiang cheng's temperament and world views? because actually they might have stumbled onto something.

“Lan WangJi and Jin ZiXuan and those people can just die! Just let them die! What’s their deaths got to do with us?! To do with our sect?! Why did this have to happen?! Why?! “Go die, go die, go die! Everyone!!!” (jiang cheng, Chapter 58).

That Sect Leader Jiang was cracking a glowing whip right on the training field. The victim’s flesh and blood flew as high as his screams! A servant secretly informed him that the sect leader caught the wrong person again, that he hadn’t been in a great mood, and that he definitely shouldn’t be irritated in any way.” (Chapter 92)

ok I see it now.

#mdzs #Wen Ruohan #jiang cheng #Yu Ziyuan #madam Yu

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songofclarity · 3 years

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A silly yet satisfying basis for an AU is that Wen RuoHan’s canon backstory involves him being very pleased with a newly gifted saber, but the second a guest cultivator told him a certain person wouldn't agree that his saber is all that great, Wen RuoHan wasn’t pleased with this saber anymore.

So enter Meng Yao, who gets in good with Wen RuoHan by inventing all sorts of torture devices to entertain and delight! Wen RuoHan is entertained and delighted! Meng Yao has raised the bar on torture! There is no one more capable at it than Meng Yao! Wen RuoHan is very pleased!

And then Nie MingJue, captured and furious about it, finally snaps at Meng Yao, "Is that the best you can do!? I've been tortured worse by HuaiSang!"

...Oh no!

That's it for Meng Yao! He had a nice run but it's over! He’s not the best torturer anymore and Wen RuoHan is no longer pleased so Meng Yao’s been transferred to an office that won’t give him a power trip.

Wen RuoHan is, however, interested in seeing this finer torturer though--just like he wanted to see old Sect Leader Nie’s finer saber.

Nie HuaiSang gets summoned to Nightless City and Nie MingJue is in danger (Da-ge needs him!) so let's just say he comes despite everyone at Cloud Recesses telling him NO. He's all teary-eyed in front of Wen RuoHan and just, "Please don't kill Da-ge! Also please don't slap me, I'm fragile."

But thankfully torturers don’t get slapped and instead get put to the test!

Nie HuaiSang's torture method of choice? Painting fans.

A strange yet bold choice! Wen RuoHan is intrigued.

Nie MingJue is groaning and suffering. His back hurts and the paint is running and why the hell are you laughing, HuaiSang, what do you mean there is paint on his face!? And oh hell, there is paint all over his sleeve, too!

Wen RuoHan, who might actually have been grieving the past three years over his dead sons and that torture boom in the Fire Palace was a result of some serious complicated grieving exacerbated by a person who had reasons for making the torture of cultivators his brand (because it had nothing to do with said cultivators mocking him and not allowing him into their Golden Peacock Club, I’m sure), is just, "Fascinating."

And Wen RuoHan picks up a brush and tries to paint a fan himself.

Jokes on Wen RuoHan though because it’s art therapy! Nie MingJue is already familiar with this and he hates it (Nie HuaiSang, stop making fun of his birds!) but he’s a pushover when it comes to his little brother so now they’re all painting scenery. Peaceful scenery with misty mountains and bridges and trees and flowers. Back to meditation basics! No war, no death, no stress!

NHS: “No drawing people, Sect Leader Wen. Da-ge would love to draw a battle scene but he must suffer, remember.”

WRH: “How about one sleeping under this tree?”

NHS: “Hmm. Not bad! Since Sect Leader Wen wants it, I will allow it. Draw a person sleeping under the tree, Da-ge.”

NMJ, who can only draw stick figures: “There is something fundamentally wrong with both of you.”

WRH: “?”

NHS: “I love you too, Da-ge!”

Nie MingJue, who is still recovering from the Fire Palace torture and is more than a little pissed at HuaiSang for putting himself in danger, looks over at Wen RuoHan’s fan and says without thinking, “Looks better than HuaiSang’s.” Because even upstanding big brothers have their less-than upstanding moments.

“DA-GE, HOW DARE!?”

But Wen RuoHan is... very happy! Yes, his painted fan is very good, isn’t it? Wen RuoHan eats up that flattery and.

Oh.

Nie MingJue sucks at flattery but somehow coming from him pleases Wen RuoHan the most!? Something about the rigid and tight-jawed Sect Leader Nie speaking up and saying something nice. Thankfully, Nie HuaiSang knows just what Nie MingJue needs to say, and what he needs to do!

And so it’s true! Nie HuaiSang’s method of torture is masterful indeed! Wen RuoHan is very pleased! And Nie MingJue is suffering but maybe he can be happy with it because Wen RuoHan slowly shows he’s not The Worst, actually.

The war comes to a bizarre end due to the power of Nie brotherly love and Wen RuoHan needing a better hobby and kinder companionship. The end!

#mdzs thoughts #canon divergent au #wen ruohan #nie mingjue #nie huaisang #nie brothers #ruojue #wrh & jgy #i wrote this ages ago and only remembered it this morning #wrh deserves some fun and wholesome au plots

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robininthelabyrinth · 3 years

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Hello! I love your writing! I'm gonna send five prompts, I hope at least one of them inspires you and you have fun with them. Prompt #1: Wang Lingjiao (Wen Chao's mistress) interacting with Meng Yao in Nightless City, can be a ship but not necessarily (I... guess you could count shipping it as infidelity towards Wen Chao??? so def don't write ship if it makes you uncomfortable). Preferably WLJ pov, with her making numerous not always accurate assumptions about Meng Yao's role at Wen Ruohan's court, maybe sort of assuming he is to WRH what she is to WC and therefore approaching him with something like ~camaraderie (whether MY plays along or laughs her off I will leave to you)

ao3

Friends were a luxury that Wang Lingjiao had never been well-off enough to have, not when her tenuous position might be lost at any minute by a pair of seductive eyes or a new (not better) pair of tits, but it wasn’t like she was totally without any fellow feeling.

“Well done,” she said to the boy with Nie braids in his hair like he thought it’d make him something he wasn’t.

He blinked, surprised, and fixed her with the same pleasant, competent, I’m-here-for-your-pleasure smile that she’d seen him use on everyone else. “Lady Wang, whatever do you mean?”

Wang Lingjiao rolled her eyes. Sure, he wasn’t doing anything more stunning than getting himself some off-hours food from the kitchens, same as her, but there was no way he didn’t know what she meant.

He knew. Oh, he knew.

“For selling something else,” she clarified, and saw the darkness creep into that bright and clear gaze he was always pretending with, hiding behind; he couldn’t deny that he knew exactly what she was saying now. Personally, she’d rather be on her back in Wen Chao’s bed than helping out in the Fire Palace, but it was the principle of the thing. “And drop the ‘lady’ shit while we’re in the Nightless City. There’s no point in pissing off Lady Ma.”

His face didn’t give away any obvious tells, like eyebrows shooting up or eyes going wide, but she could feel that he was surprised. “You – care about that?”

Ma Liyuan was Wen Chao’s wife, officially, and Wang Lingjiao’s official job was as her maid, except of course she didn’t do any maid stuff because she was too busy fucking Wen Chao. Still, she would have thought that this Meng Yao character would know better.

“Born in a brothel, were you?” she guessed, and his face closed up. “Don’t be so squeamish. She told me to do it, of course. If she can’t keep him, better that she control him through me than let someone from the outside sink their claws into him. Doesn’t mean she wants it rubbed in her face or anything, though.”

It wasn’t an uncommon story, and he nodded slowly as she went to pick out some food – she could get better fare when she ate with Wen Chao, of course, but he liked the illusion of her being dainty and pristine, as if you could get tits like hers without having a decent meal on the regular, and so she supplemented in private.

“Someone told me you were from Yingchuan,” he said from behind her. “Yingchuan Wang sect.”

“I am,” she said, tearing at the flesh of an apple with her teeth. “What, the intonation didn’t give me away?”

“It’s not that,” he said. “I thought – Yingchuan Wang is a cultivation sect.”

Gentry, he meant.

“Sure is,” Wang Lingjiao said, and her lips twisted in derision. “What, did you think it was all fun and games after you get brought across the threshold? Did your mother fill your head with dreams of your legitimate father sweeping in and buying your freedom and hers, setting her up in a nice little courtyard and you in disciple robes, then seeing your merit and giving you the respect you deserve?”

He was quiet. Brothel girls, she thought to herself. Always the same old tune.

“My mother was a whore, too, only she did get brought in as a concubine,” she said. “Nice and official, past the threshold and everything. The official wives hated her, of course: shorted her on firewood in the winter and water in the summer, always gave her the worst pieces of cloth to make clothing and no allowance to buy anything else, gave us incense that’d give you itches and food that gave you the runs.”

“That happens everywhere,” he said.

“She got that nice little courtyard,” Wang Lingjiao said. “It even had a nice little gateway to the outside world – not for her to go out, mind you, that wouldn’t be proper for an official concubine. But it worked perfectly well for men to come in, with all the earnings flowing to the family coffers.”

She laughed at the expression on his face.

“It’s one pimp or another,” she told him. “Men always want something from you, always, don’t you know that? And when they think you’re already dirty, they don’t think too hard about what they’re asking. I was born inside the door to a proper legitimate father, never spent a day of my life in a brothel, and they still sold me out just the same as any madam – no, worse. The stuff these righteous bastards ask for is always ten times worse.”

“Worse?” he echoed.

“Isn’t it?” she asked him. “Even a whore that’s lost her charm still doesn’t have to do much more than lie on her back and spread her legs, but look at you – look at me. Running around catering to their every need, doing every nasty deed that they don’t want to do because that’s all we’re good for in their eyes.”

He grimaced.

“I’m in charge of getting new women for A-Chao’s bed, when he’s in the mood for variety,” Wang Lingjiao said. “And for getting rid of any accidents that might happen later, my own or others’. The Wen clan doesn’t believe in them, if you understand me; if he wants kids, he’ll get them through Lady Ma or nobody. And if a woman turns him down, it’s my job to punish her, or else he’ll start saying I don’t care enough, that I’m looking elsewhere…”

She laughed and took a bite of some pork.

“I’d do it anyway, of course,” she said, chewing. “All those little bitches that think they’re better than me, it’s a pleasure to knock them down to size. And surprise, surprise, once they don’t have their looks, suddenly they’re more than happy to come around begging at A-Chao’s door to see what they can get, since now the righteous ones don’t want them anymore…Peel off all that shiny exterior and it’s all the same underneath.”

Meng Yao didn’t like what she was saying, she could tell. Not that she cared.

“Find yourself a fool,” she advised him. “A-Chao’s not bad to me, all things considered. I’ve been by his side for a few years now and his tastes are pretty run-of-the-mill, not like his brother or his father; a bit of ego stroking - ooh, you’re so strong, so capable, I’ve never seen anyone as big as you, that sort of thing - and he likes coming on my tits. Sect Leader Wen, though? He’s too clever. You won’t be able to keep his interest for long, not even with those ingenious little torture machines you keep inventing for him, and then he’ll have you doing the real scut work.”

“I appreciate your consideration,” he said stiffly. Didn’t like his work being compared to someone like her, did he?

Men.

“I hear things about the brothels in Lanling,” she offered, just to needle him. “Not just perfume and flowers and a bit of witty conversation, not for men with all the money in the world; they like getting a little extra. If you’d gotten taken in the way you wanted, I’d bet that’s the job you’d get: you’d be seeing those women every day, bringing the women in smiling and taking them out crying – or worse. Some jobs you aren’t meant to come back from, after all; my best friend growing up ended up that way. You couldn’t even recognize the body as human below the neck.”

He was too well-trained to glare, but Wang Lingjiao could tell he wanted to. Someone like him, who signed up to do torture work, probably wouldn’t mind the bodies, she reflected, and shook her head.

“What’s Qinghe like, anyway?” she asked, nodding at his braids, actually curious. “Secretive sorts, and the one or two times my people acted as hosts to their inner sect disciples, they always turned down any offers for late night company.”

“I wouldn’t know,” he said.

“Stop having a stick up your ass. I’m not saying you provided services yourself, and even if you did I’m hardly one to judge. I just want to know. You were close with that big man of theirs, their sect leader, weren’t you? Sect Leader Wen sure talks about it enough.”

Talked about it the way Wen Chao talked about Wang Lingjiao getting close to a woman he was pursuing, sometimes. There was really no accounting for taste – Sect Leader Wen could have any woman he wanted and often did, her and Lady Ma included, and even sometimes at the same time; yet what he really wanted, apparently, was to hear Meng Yao talk about Sect Leader Nie’s personal habits.

Probably he wanted the joy in breaking him or something. Wang Lingjiao didn’t make it her business to try to guess, though she supposed Meng Yao did.

“No way someone as sharp as you didn’t pick up some clues about what he likes,” she continued. “Come on, what is it? He like beating his whores or something?”

“He didn’t frequent whores,” Meng Yao said. “And he didn’t take lovers.”

He smiled, faintly, probably at her expression of disbelief.

“He liked slaughtering Wen-dogs,” he added. “Rather a lot. See that you don’t end up on the wrong side of his saber. He didn’t make allowances for women.”

Wang Lingjiao tossed her hair – there was no need to bring in blood and war into their perfectly nice conversation! – and huffed. “Oh, I get you. The marrying type, then?” she sneered. “The ones that’ll give you their heart and forgive you for everything, then end up wearing green hats for cuckolds when it turns out the one they like isn’t near as virtuous as them? What a fool!”

“I thought you said I should find myself a fool,” Meng Yao said mildly.

“You still have to be able to keep him,” she mocked. “If you could get someone like Sect Leader Nie on the hook, why would you be busting your ass here?”

That shut him up.

“Well, your loss is Sect Leader Wen’s gain, I guess,” she said, and put aside her plate without washing it. The kitchen staff could clean up for her. “Ugh, I can’t wait for this war to be over already. I miss the discussion conferences! Even though I had to stay back with the servants, at least you got to see some new people…that last one, with the archery, that was a fun one.”

She grinned. “All the sect leaders came here to sit at Sect Leader Wen’s feet, your father included. He asked all three of his housekeeping maids to serve him in bed, you know. All at once. Brave man, at his age…come to think of it, you might want to check the nursery. See if you have some siblings there. Who knows? Maybe they’ll grow up to be competition.”

Meng Yao said nothing.

Wang Lingjiao laughed again.

“Have fun in the Fire Palace, Meng Yao,” she said, sashaying away. “Try not to end up on the wrong side of it.”

See? It was almost like being friends.

#mdzs #meng yao #jin guangyao #wang lingjiao #referenced WLJ/WC #discussions of NMJ/JGY #discussions of WRH/NMJ #my fic #my fics #a little extra #tauremornalome

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robininthelabyrinth · 4 years

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MY doesn't get to kill WRH, either WWX kills him first or NMJ somehow manages to break free and straight up decapitate him. In version A, LXC comes in and hears MY unload on NMJ and it's the reveal from the temple all over again. In version B, either NMJ already killed MY, or he's strong enough that he doesn't cave in to LXC. Without the biggest killing blow to back him up, there's no JGY.

“I wanted to kill him,” Meng Yao said. He’s kneeling by Wen Ruohan’s body, staring at it blankly.

“I wanted you to have not killed my Nie cultivators,” Nie Mingjue said. He was kneeling, too, more out of exhaustion than anything else; Baxia was in his hand, but he couldn’t even get up the energy form a fist around her hilt. “Or your supervisor, back at Langya. We don’t always get what we want, do we?”

Meng Yao looked at him sidelong. “I really didn’t have a choice, you know. He liked it when I killed people for him, held it against me if I didn’t, and I needed to get close to him if I was going to get information from him – if I was going to kill him.”

Nie Mingjue grunted. It wasn’t that he wasn’t aware of the things spies needed to do to survive; he wasn’t an idiot. It was only that, after Langya, he was suspicious of everything that came out of Meng Yao’s mouth – had he had some old grievances with the men he killed?

Had he had grievances with Nie Mingjue, to arrange that he be captured and brought here?

“There really was no alternative –”

“The alternative was sending them to the Fire Palace,” Nie Mingjue said flatly. “You planned to kill him today. You could have proposed sending them to the Fire Palace, and then rescued them later. You’re smart enough; if I can think of it, why couldn’t you?”

Meng Yao was silent for a moment, and Nie Mingjue shut his eyes, focusing on stabilizing his stuttering qi – he’d truly injured himself this time, pulled on resources that ought not be touched to get enough strength for that last exchange with Wen Ruohan.

Meng Yao had tried to kill him, a stab in the back from behind, but it hadn’t been quite enough, the difference between their cultivation levels too staggering; and of course Wen Ruohan had been enraged by the betrayal, had turned against him –

Nie Mingjue had killed him to stop him from killing Meng Yao.

He wasn’t sure how he felt about that.

Not Wen Ruohan’s death – that was an unmitigated joy. A brutal tyrant was dead, no longer free to torture or murder with impunity…Nie Mingjue would go and light incense at his father’s memorial tablet once (if?) he returned to Qinghe so that he would know that his death had been avenged at last.

But – there was still Meng Yao.

Ever since Langya, Nie Mingjue had been swearing up and down in all his camps that he would break his faithless subordinate’s legs when he next met him, and that was just over what had happened Langya, before he’d found that he’d joined the Wen Sect. And then he’d discovered that Meng Yao had done just that, not just joined in with their actions but even risen to the position of Wen Ruohan’s aid through what, given Wen Ruohan’s character, undoubtedly involved an endless string of atrocities. He’d lured Nie Mingjue into a trap, he’d killed his cultivators, he’d mocked his father’s death and threatened Baxia…and Nie Mingjue still couldn’t see him get hurt without rushing to his aid.

He was, Nie Mingjue grimly concluded, an idiot.

“I would ask Sect Leader Nie to believe me that it wouldn’t have worked,” Meng Yao finally said. “But I know you don’t. Trust me, that is.”

And then he laughed, and it was a bitter sound.

Nie Mingjue opened his eyes. “What’s the matter with you?”

“I needed to kill him,” Meng Yao said. “I needed to be the one to do it. Without that, I have – nothing. I have lost your trust, and my father will not accept me unless I have some use to him. If I killed Wen Ruohan, I would be a war hero, and Lanling Jin needs heroes given its conduct in the war –”

Truly abysmal, in fact.

“– but now? Now…there’s no point. No point to any of it, all the things I’ve done - nothing.”

“Wen Ruohan is dead,” Nie MIngjue said. “That is a good thing by itself.”

“It is,” Meng Yao said. “He was – truly terrible.” He laughed again. “But satisfaction isn’t something you can eat, Sect Leader Nie. Tell me, what am I supposed to do now? Do you still want me to hand myself over to the Jin sect?”

The right answer would be yes. And yet – no one had cared about that supervisor, least of all Jin Guangshan; there wouldn’t have been any justice meted out, the punishment fitting the crime.

There would only have been a sect leader extracting whatever use he could, and discarding the rest.

“No,” Nie MIngjue finally decided, and oh, he was an idiot. “I’ve officially been named commander in chief of the Sunshot Campaign. I’m perfectly capable of sentencing you to justice myself.”

“Justice,” Meng Yao said, and his voice was very nearly a sob. “Yes, justice. Tell me, what will justice require?”

“You to stop murdering people, for a start,” Nie Mingjue said, feeling all that old irritation again, however muted by the sheer exhaustion that had hollowed him out to the bones. “Aren’t you trying to be a Jin? If someone bullies you, use your connections to bully them back.”

“Connections? You know my past, Sect Leader Nie - what connections did I have?”

“You had me,” Nie Mingjue snapped. “Did you really think I wouldn’t have stood up for you?”

The expression on Meng Yao’s face suggested that he hadn’t thought of that.

What sort of person thinks of manipulation and murder before simply asking for help? Nie Mingjue thought, incredulous, but a moment later he understood.

No wonder Meng Yao hated being called a prostitute’s son. In the end, he couldn’t escape his heritage, not even in his own head.

Nie Mingjue’s head hurt.

If someone who had never learned any better committed a crime, how should they be punished? The crime was still a crime, the victim was still dead – and Nie Mingjue’s heart tugged him away from the principles of justice when it came to Meng Yao, just as it did when the perpetrator was his own brother.

Meng Yao had asked the right question, for once: what did justice require, under these circumstances?

“…come back to Qinghe,” Nie Mingjue said, his eyes sliding closed again. “There’ll be a trial. If none of the victim’s family appears to claim justice –”

Unlikely for the Jin cultivator, if the trial were held in Qinghe; even if he sent an invitation, they’d probably already been paid off by the Jin sect. And the Nie sect cultivators Meng Yao had killed…if he really had been passing them information the entire time, there would probably be a strong push to abstain from serious punishment.

Nie justice might be principled to the point of black and white, but they all understood the notion of sacrifice.

“– if the only offenses that remain are those against me, then I’ll make you run laps until you faint and put you on probation. Or – something like that.”

There was silence for a moment. Nie MIngjue wasn’t sure if Meng Yao were considering his offer or considering cutting his head off the way he’d cut off Wen Ruohan’s.

“You would take me as your deputy again? After – all this?”

“We can say that you went undercover on my orders,” Nie Mingjue said. He was very tired. “You said you passed along information – you helped my victories. It would be believed. You…”

His words were heavy on his tongue.

“Sect Leader Nie? Are you all right?”

He could hear Meng Yao’s voice, but he couldn’t see him. His eyes were still closed, and it was too much trouble to open them.

There was a turning point in front of the two of them, a moment when they would have to stake it all on a single throw of the dice –

It was time to see where Meng Yao would place his bets.

“I’m going to pass out,” Nie Mingjue said, the words only slightly slurred through sheer force of effort. “There’s no one – no one here but you and me. If you kill me, you can tell Jin Guangshan that you struck the killing blow against Wen Ruohan after he executed me. If you don’t…”

Come back to Qinghe with me.

“Make your own decision,” he concluded.

He didn’t even feel it when his body toppled forward onto the floor.

It was a pleasant surprise to open his eyes again. An even better one, to find that he was in his own war camp. But the question remained…

“Good, you’re awake,” Nie Zonghui said, ducking in; the doctor had gone to fetch him. “Confirm for me that you sent Meng Yao undercover and your ranting these past few months has been a front – that’s what he’s insisting happened, and I don’t know whether to believe him. Has he really been working for Qinghe Nie this entire time? His father will never forgive him.”

Nie Mingjue’s lips curled up.

#mdzs #nie mingjue #meng yao #jin guangyao #wen ruohan #my fic #my fics #amethystshipper #oddly enough this is the mirror image of the last fic I did #with sneaky NHS #they both understand the jin sect the same way

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songofclarity · 3 years

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Omg I absolutely agree with your meta about WRH. When I 1st got into the Fandom I used to hate his guts but after I read the novel and watched the donghua I couldn't help but think he was really cool. Something I don't see spoken about often is his competence, not only was his sect the most powerful and richest in his reign but also in the sunshot campaign he was up against the whole cultivation world and they had WWX's demonic cultivation and army of the dead on their side as well as Meng Yao as a spy sneaking them information right from WRH's side and still they couldn't beat him and the war was at stalemate for 3-5 years until WRH was betrayed by Meng Yao whom he trusted and treated like a son and only after they lost WRH's leadership did the Wen sect fall. Also he respects and rewards competence regardless of background and gender etc which makes him look more progressive than most of the cultivation world. I also love how he exudes pure power and self confidence he has that sort of "feline" charisma like how a cat knows 100% and without any doubt that they are the epitome of cathood and that everyone else is beneath them and can never reach their level and also how before you know a cat you think cats are mean tyrannical assholes but then after you get to know them you still believe they are mean tyrannical assholes but also there is far more to them than meets the eye and you can't help but adore them and agree that they are indeed superior and have every right to expect to be worshipped and rule the world. Idk why I went into this cat tangent lol but the point is I believe WRH is very cat-like and maybe that's why I adore him so much because cats are my favorite creatures in the world

Much like a cat, Wen RuoHan sleeps 16 hours a day because an apex predator fears nothing. He wakes up to ask if the Sunshot Campaign is over yet. It's not. He gives a few orders, eats his dinner, throws around a newly gifted catnip toy (he’s quite pleased), and then goes back to sleep near a nice warm fireplace. It's been a long day and he deserves it.

OK, on a serious note, "only after they lost WRH's leadership did the Wen sect fall." 👏👏👏 THANK YOU! The war lasted three years. Wen Chao, Wen ZhuLiu, and Wen Xu all died within days of each other in the first three months. The Qishan Wen Sect is never described as stepping up their game when they realized the Sunshot Campaign was serious. The other sects had Wei WuXian’s demonic cultivation and Meng Yao’s spying.

And STILL the other sects could. not. win.

Jumping back to the top of your ask, it's pretty easy to hate Wen RuoHan at first. The fandom blames him for literally everything even though we see in real time how Wang LingJiao, Wen Chao, and Meng Yao all make their own, terrible choices. The donghua makes Wen RuoHan into a murderous aggressor trying to take over the cultivation world. CQL went with the a more traditional cdrama evil man who doesn't seem to know which way is up.

On a side note, I'm constantly confused when I see people say Wen RuoHan declared the Sunshot Campaign on the other Sects because, like, no? It's literally in the name: the other sects are trying to shoot down the sun! If this was Wen RuoHan's war, it would be more akin to the Scorched Earth Campaign.

So Wen RuoHan being at the head of the Wen Sect with four other great sects trying to take him down and holding steady is such a testament to his competency, you're absolutely right! And at the helm of his competency is his delegation.

Does he delegate to good, responsible people? No, and that’s what gets him into trouble, but I think his delegation is also what makes him popular with his sect and with guest cultivators. He’s powerful and he’s willing to share that power.

What's funny about the Qishan Wen Sect was that it was indeed the most powerful and richest, but Wei WuXian also notes how bad their general cultivators are. That Lan XiChen, Lan WangJi, Wei WuXian, and Jin ZiXuan all ranked in the top four at the archery competition isn't just due to their outstanding skill. It's also because the Wen juniors were just... frankly bad. Wen Ning has stage fright and Wen Chao lacks talent. The Waterborne Abyss was pushed into Gusu territory not as an attack on Gusu, but very likely because the Wen cultivators were not able to destroy it so they just pushed it outside their borders.

So the Wen Sect is really quantity over quality. Yu ZiYuan is a badass lady with a lightning whip and should not have died at Lotus Pier, but Lotus Pier was completely overrun so of course she stood no chance.

And the lack of quality also lies with the guest cultivators. The guest cultivator who threw Nie Dad under the bus, Wang LingJiao, and Meng Yao are all horrible people. Wang LingJiao and Meng Yao are noted for their poor cultivation. Both of them would have been killed before the crucial point if our actual Wen fam, Wen ZhuLiu and Wen RuoHan respectively, did not step in to save them.

Which makes it all the more impressive that Wen RuoHan's leadership held back not just the four sects (perhaps closer to three as the Yunmeng Jiang were recruiting probably rogue cultivators and training a lot from scratch) but also Wei WuXian with his demonic cultivation! Didn't the rumors talk about how Wei WuXian could kill thousands on his own? I don't recall Wei WuXian ever denying it, although at that rate I'd be surprised if there was anyone left to fight after three years, so it’s probably exaggerated lol He’d still be terrifying, however!

Meng Yao's spy work perhaps saved the other four sects from being decimated but his spy work was never enough to give them the upper hand. (Although I have a LOT of thoughts about what that spy work was meant to achieve in general.) Did Wen RuoHan ever know there was a spy? Would it have mattered when it had such little effect??

Wen RuoHan absolutely son-zoned Meng Yao and it's infuriating to me how often Wen RuoHan is treated by fandom as abusing Meng Yao in some capacity. There is no sign that Meng Yao ever suffered in Nightless City. That was always kind of the point of us seeing empathy: Meng Yao was in his stride, he murdered, and he was given a choice and he voted torture.

When we hear about the Fire Palace and how Meng Yao invented all those torture devices, that's Meng Yao being honored for his talent in torture. Wen ZhuLiu changed his name to Wen in order to follow Wen RuoHan and Wen Chao even comments that he can't do anything to punish Wen ZhuLiu because his father thinks Wen ZhuLiu is a rare talent. Talent is protected. Talent is promoted.

Wen RuoHan absolutely rewards talent -- which is, I like to point out, something we only ever see Nie MingJue do when he explains why he promoted Meng Yao. By comparison, Jiang FengMian only praises Wei WuXian, the Gusu Lan bullied Su She out rather than acknowledge he was talented in his own right, and the Jin only ever use their guest cultivators, such as Xue Yang, like tools to be used and thrown away. While Nie MingJue gets closest by raising up Meng Yao, however, he doesn't seek to cultivate Meng Yao's skills and instead sends him on his way when Meng Yao has other goals.

Wen RuoHan not only rewards talent but he also nurtures it. Wen Chao is given opportunities to practice being a leader and organizer. It's said by cultivators later in the novel that Wen RuoHan taught Meng Yao his sword technique--the same technique that Meng Yao likely used to kill him. Note how Nie MingJue observed from the start that Meng Yao's sword skills needed work, but we never see or hear about Meng Yao doing any training with the Nie. So Meng Yao goes from being a terrible swordsman to being good enough to kill Wen RuoHan fast enough that he suffers no backlash.

Although is Wen RuoHan the type of person who would harm someone he had son-zoned? The manhua gave us a gift by showing us the shocked and betrayed look on Wen RuoHan's face and the completely unapologetic look on Meng Yao's.

That isn’t to say that Wen RuoHan, as the enemy, didn’t somehow deserve to be taken down, but it does say a lot that the only way to defeat him was through a personal betrayal. And it says a lot that, with Wen RuoHan ruling over a city-sized cultivation sect that welcomed plenty of outsiders, he never felt like he had to watch his back.

#asked from above #anon #mdzs thoughts #wen ruohan #this is kind of a ramble #but you're opening all the doors on my wrh feels lol #included the mentioned wrh meta in the source

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songofclarity · 3 years

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Hi! About WRH, I've seen lots of instances where people wimpify their favourite character, by using WRH to abuse them in the most gross ways. Maybe you've seen that too? Do you think there's a particular reason for why it's so prevalent (aside from personal taste(??? ...Even reading descriptions makes me sick. Its unavoidable with WRH. ...I find it incredibly tiresome when I'm trying to find normal WRH content yet have to wade through that shit. WRH and the other characters deserve better.

Oh, yes, I've definitely seen that, Anon.

That is the fate of all villains and antagonists in most fandoms. It's prevalent because of people's personal taste, as you said, for the power dynamic, victim/villain porn, the schadenfreude, the porn, just wanting to see their favorites break. Reading about characters in pain can be a healthy way to experience intense emotions in a safe environment. Writing fiction is a way to express one thing or another and I'm not here to judge the rhyme or reason for what gets put out there.

But I will judge how people characterize characters lol Considering I LOVE hurt/comfort, I can't say even I entirely understand the appeal of wimpifying favorite characters, either?? Even when they suffer, shouldn't they still be themselves in some fundamental way? Hurt/comfort is such a great way to explore characters at their rawest point, whether they break or bend, how they handle suffering and pain, what they do to comfort themselves, and how they come back from it.

That is a treatment and exploration given predominantly to the protagonists, however. Wen RuoHan, an antagonist we rarely see, garners no sympathy or empathy from most readers as his story sections are few and far between. We're told he runs the Evil Sect(TM) and that's all most people care about. Writers decide he is not a character in his own right, ignore what is on the page, and thus he becomes free real estate for the some trashy, vicious personality that hypersexualizes him to perversion and shows him instigating and passionately delighting in the sight of suffering and blood.

Which, for the liking the suffering and blood part, is what the cultivation world says about him in canon but we also have to remember that the cultivation world says Nie HuaiSang is a good for nothing, Wei WuXian is nothing but evil, and Jin GuangYao is a good and upright person. We come to the end of the novel to realize that none of these are true.

This isn't to say that Wen RuoHan is secretly a good person, but why is he suddenly the exception to the theme that rumors shouldn’t be believed? Especially when what we see of him does NOT match up with what is said about him? Given the opportunity to torture his son’s murderer, which you might even argue he is justified to want, he turns it down.

Interestingly enough, and perhaps Anon has noticed it too, I see Meng Yao's personality and behavior in the Sun Palace being projected onto Wen RuoHan in a lot of fic. Meng Yao's abuses and verbal harassment toward Nie MingJue are put into Wen RuoHan's mouth and then exemplified. So I think that’s another reason why Wen RuoHan is so prevalently portrayed as “gross”: Meng Yao blamed all his actions on Wen RuoHan and readers believed him, despite Meng Yao having a good reason to lie and Wen RuoHan CLEARLY saying “do as YOU please,” not as Wen RuoHan pleases.

Honestly, what Wen RuoHan says and how he behaves gives us an interesting character!

Wen RuoHan smacked Nie dad’s saber and yet spoke politely that it was indeed a fine saber. (The saber breaks. Nie dad dies.)

Wen RuoHan watched his Sect lose the archery competition and all he said was thank you all for coming, I'm going to go, but please continue to enjoy yourselves. (Cloud Recesses burns. The Indoctrination camp requires everyone to come back to once again enjoy themselves as they learn Wen Sect rules and teaching.)

Wen RuoHan spoke of his observations of the other sect leaders, identified their weaknesses (but not their strengths), and said that he needn’t raise a hand against the Sunshot Campaign, that it will collapse on its own. (It doesn’t. Wen Xu and Wen Chao are killed within days of each other. The Sunshot Campaign is in a stalemate for years.)

Wen RuoHan asked if Nie MingJue was the one who killed Wen Xu, stated he had no interest in further abusing someone who was half dead, and told Meng Yao to do as he pleased. (Wen RuoHan has his guard completely down, he doesn’t feel threatened at all, and he is murdered.)

Wen RuoHan is never shown or described as torturing anyone, we never see him murdering anyone (although RIP the Wen Cultivator killed when Nie MingJue launched him as an attack weapon), and he's not involved in any sexual misconduct. He never calls for anyone's death and he never shows a desire to cause harm.

If nothing else, Wen RuoHan is POLITE to a FAULT. Like we all see how polite Jin GuangYao tries to be but in the end he’s shedding that politeness like a second skin. Now imagine that politeness coming from a man who can make your head explode like a watermelon. Wen RuoHan is powerful and he’s terrifying but he is a BEAUTIFUL representation of "speak softly and carry a big stick" and I love that about him. It also perfectly explains why Wen Chao was like That.

So yeah, the "gross" stuff fandom writes him doing, the "gross" stuff fandom writes him saying -- I'm sorry, but who is that??? It’s fine if people don’t like him or flat out hate him, but MDZS gives us so many antagonists to chose from! It doesn’t need to be one-sized-antagonist-fits-all-evils! Fics will use Wen RuoHan’s name when Jin GuangShan and Jin GuangYao are right there holding a monopoly on sexual violence, torture, and abuse in canon. But that is another reason Wen RuoHan is portrayed as gross and terrible in fandom: many people generally like the Jin better than the Wens, and, in order to make Jin GuangYao look less rotten, Wen RuoHan is made into the penultimate evil with no redeeming qualities.

Although with all that said, in case Anon is unaware, I am the author of Heliocentric over on AO3, which began life as just a hurt/comfort Whumptober fic with a focus on Wen RuoHan and Nie MingJue. So I confess I am a participant when it comes to delving into Wen RuoHan doing terrible things in order to indulge in some good old hurt/comfort and character study. But after having written nearly 100k words I'm now a Wen RuoHan stan so I guess all that studying worked really well.

So I’m with you on trying to find some normal Wen RuoHan content these days. There are definitely some gems out there though! Fanfic and fanart which are both interesting and compelling! But long story short, we must be the change we want to see in the world! We must make the Wen RuoHan content we want to read/see!

Although it would be nice if people stopped treated him like a trash bin in the meantime.

#disclaimer: this is about the general fandom portrayal and is not about any particular work #this got long but i have a proper wrh meta in me somewhere that is crying to get out lol #anon #asked from above #wen ruohan #mdzs thoughts

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songofclarity · 3 years

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What do you think would happen if WRH discovered MY was a spy earlier? Would he kill him or would he pretend he has no idea of MY's truth while using him and feeding him information that will give the Wen an advantage against the SSC if leaked?

An excellent question, Anon!

Wen RuoHan would of course be fully justified to kill Meng Yao. While he also had the right to kill Nie MingJue and didn't take it, Meng Yao is betraying the Wen and has the arrogance to spy on them in their own home. I can honestly see it going either way, however, depending on the circumstances and just how Meng Yao pleads his case.

As for using Meng Yao themselves...

For one thing, Wen RuoHan doesn't strike me as conniving. From the guest cultivator to Meng Yao, we see him listening to others and following their lead. When given the opportunity to pave his own path, such as when the Sunshot Campaign is declared and the Wen could stomp on everyone, his response was, basically, for them all to do nothing and wait for the Sunshot Campaign to simply blow over. Wen RuoHan doesn't want the other sects to be destroyed, he wants everything to go back to normal (with the Wen Sect back on top, yay!). By all means then, what Meng Yao's spying would have to win them is peace. That's not something Meng Yao of all people could help them achieve.

For another thing, Meng Yao was, by all means, a terrible spy on purpose. One reason there is not even a hint of any great final battles in the Sunshot Campaign was because Meng Yao did not want this to be a team effort. No one is winning ANY grand battles with Meng Yao behind enemy lines because how do you give credit to an invisible hand? He did not want the sects to win the Sunshot Campaign with or without his information, but he did not want them defeated, either, otherwise his efforts would be wasted. Depending on what was happening at the time and what information he was passing along, it might just look like he was already feeding information to the Sunshot Campaign himself to help the Wen. How loyal he would have appeared!

I haven't seen it talked about before, but let's look at what Meng Yao's spy information actually did and how it would have looked to the Wen.

During the Sunshot Campaign, stories were told about all three of the Venerated Triad. The ones of ChiFeng-Zun were about how he swept over all obstacles, leaving not even a trace of the Wen-dogs after he finished. (ch. 48, ERS)

Whatever information Meng Yao provided Nie MingJue would have been tenuous at best because otherwise Nie MingJue would have swept all the way to Nightless City and won the whole damn thing himself. Give Nie MingJue an opening and he is busting through. Even when critically injured and barely on his feet, he cut through all of Wen cultivators who tried to protect Wen RuoHan in the Sun Palace. Only Wen RuoHan was strong enough to take him down (and did so 2x).

Even before the false information regarding Yangquan, Meng Yao was likely providing information which hindered Nie MingJue and the Nie's advancement toward Nightless City in order to keep Nie MingJue at bay--and keep him alive, which Lan XiChen would appreciate and continue to give faith in Meng Yao. Remember that after Meng Yao betrayed Nie MingJue and the Jin at Langya, there was no way he would be accepted back with open arms. That Nie MingJue's most loyal subordinates are killed and Nie MingJue is dragged out of the Sun Palace owing Meng Yao a life debt is no happy coincidence. Meng Yao played Nie MingJue in the worst way to ensure Nie MingJue would NOT be able to stop Meng Yao's return to Koi Tower. But to let Nie MingJue die would ruin relations with Lan XiChen and the Nie. Nie MingJue had to be defeated to let Meng Yao come out on top, but he had to live so as to not reflect badly on Meng Yao.

If Wen RuoHan and the Wens came across Meng Yao's information to the Nie early on, it might just look like Meng Yao is already feeding bad information to the Sunshot Campaign himself! After all, the only ones who knew what happened in Langya are Meng Yao, Nie MingJue, and Lan XiChen, and none of them are broadcasting it. Therefore Meng Yao could pretend to still be on good terms with Sect Leader Nie, tell Wen RuoHan he is deceiving the Nie for him, and actually look even more loyal to the Wen in the end.

The way Wen RuoHan asks Meng Yao if Nie MingJue is the one who killed Wen Xu followed by Meng Yao's ready confirmation suggests to me that Meng Yao had everything from Yangquan to the Sun Palace planned. He had informed Wen RuoHan of what to expect already: Wen Xu's killer, and thus Wen RuoHan inquires. Meng Yao didn't wait for the Wens to use him and freely gave them what they wanted since it's what he wanted, too.

ZeWu-Jun--Lan XiChen--however, was different from [ChiFeng-Zun]. After the situation of the Gusu area had settled down, Lan QiRen was able to defend it with great tenacity. Thus, Lan XiChen often traveled to aid others, saving lives from danger. In all of the Sunshot Campaign, he had countless times recovered lost territory and assisted narrow escapes. This was why people were ecstatic whenever they heard his name, as though they gained a ray of hope, a powerful trump card. (ch. 48)

Lan XiChen is different because he not a fighter who can win the Sunshot Campaign. I know CQL and the donghua show him fighting in all his fierce glory with Shuoyue in hand, but that is not the kind of person he is in the novel. He is gentle and picks Liebing, who pacifies, over Shuoyue, who slices through, every time until the last scene. He is the only person who could have ever stabbed Jin GuangYao, because he is the only person Jin GuangYao would never suspect harming him since Lan XiChen never harmed anyone.

So to anyone who wonders why Lan XiChen believed so much in Meng Yao being a good person despite Nie MingJue's testimonies: it's because Meng Yao was providing information to Lan XiChen to help regain territory, aid others, and save lives from danger. Any murder and torture Meng Yao did in the Nightless City was thought to be minor compared to all the good his overall spying did for the Sunshot Campaign. Lan XiChen saw firsthand the GOOD that Meng Yao's spying could achieve and thus had faith in Meng Yao being fundamentally a good person. (Sadly, he was misled.)

But Lan XiChen was different from Nie MingJue. Lan XiChen couldn't win the war himself whereas Nie MingJue just might. Lan XiChen got the good information while Nie MingJue got the mediocre and, at the end, the information which threw him to the Wen-dogs.

Compared to Meng Yao's spy information directed to Nie MingJue, the information given to Lan XiChen would look suspect by the Wen. Lan XiChen is undoing whatever advances the Wen are achieving. This is part of why the Sunshot Campaign is in a stalemate for those last ~2 years: it's just back and forth with gains and losses in equal measure. It's what Meng Yao wants until he can ensure all the credit for his efforts go to him and no one else.

If Wen RuoHan and the Wens came across Meng Yao's information to Lan XiChen early on, that would look like Meng Yao is betraying them. This would look like a killing offense! The arrogance to think he could spy on the Wen! The Qishan Wen accepted Meng Yao in good faith when his own father gave him the cold shoulder, and he's still picking that father over Sect Leader Wen!?

But I hesitate to say Wen RuoHan would kill him because when do we ever see or hear about Wen RuoHan killing anyone!? He doesn't kill his enemies and the one ally he killed was that cultivator who was thrown at him in the midst of a fight. Yes, the novel tells us per rumors that Wen RuoHan sometimes enjoys torturing people who offend him, but that still doesn't mean they die in the end.

So I turn our attention to Wen ZhuLiu, our most reliable Wen RuoHan character reference. When deciding whether to follow orders or go completely against them, Wen ZhuLiu makes an interesting observation about what might happen to him:

Yet, there were no worst circumstances, but only worse circumstances...

Yet, in such a situation, the woman [Wang LingJiao] was on the verge of losing her life. If he did nothing, Wen Chao would definitely fly into a rage and refuse to let him go. And if he refused to let him go, then Wen RouHan wouldn't leave the matter at that either. (Ch. 58, ERS)

The worst circumstance is, of course, death. But Wen ZhuLiu reveals that, in this case, betraying Wen Chao, who had given orders to protect Wang LingJiao, does not make him afraid for his life. Acting against the Wen would make a mess of a situation for sure, but he is not afraid that he would end up dead. Life will become worse for him, but not the worst.

Meng Yao would be punished if he were caught, because how could he not, but it's rather unlikely his life was ever in danger. He was already acting as a reverse spy for the Wen of his own accord, so he was not truly at risk of being used or mislead by them.

Also a key aspect of Meng Yao's character is that he does not put his own life on the line. He hides behind others. He does not sacrifice himself for any cause or any person. (I'm sorry CQL lied to everyone by showing him use his body to protect someone else. Nothing could be further from the truth.)

Nie MingJue, "Then why don't you sacrifice yourself? Are you any nobler than them? Are you any different from them?"

Jin GuangYao stared at him. A moment later, as though he had finally either decided on something or given up on something, he replied calmly, "Yes." He looked up. In his expression were some of pride, some of calmness, and some of a faint insanity, "I and they, of course we are different!" (ch. 49)

If being with the Wen or working under Wen RuoHan was ever dangerous to him, personally, Meng Yao would have been gone long ago. If there was any risk that Meng Yao would find himself on the receiving end of his own torture devices, he would have killed Wen RuoHan already and fled out the door immediately. Instead, he stayed until the very end and did as he pleased and got everything he wanted at Wen RuoHan's expense.

I dare say Wen RuoHan is much more like Lan XiChen and Nie MingJue than we all give him credit for. Jumping to murder is actually not the norm. Meng Yao is simply an outlier who does too much murder and should not be counted.

#asked from above #anon #wen ruohan #jin guangyao #nie mingjue #lan xichen #sworn bros #wrh & jgy #mdzs thoughts #too many words that anon and no one asked for #but it is what it is!#my wrh isn't an evil person agenda continues lol

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