#okay also something that bothered me A LOT was how the show handled Jesper as a total comic relief? like in the books he’s *funny*

[goblins-riddles-or-frocks]

Do you feel like the Crows were adapted well because I personally feel that while Nina and Matthias were fine, even great, the other Crows were done a disservice. Their introductions were changed to be a lot less memorable imo, Kaz was an idiot for not expecting Pekka Rollins to return the blow (I mean, come on! Book Kaz would never), their storylines in this season will take away some of the build-up and/or development of their stories from the books later on and the very fact that they got mixed up with the Alina story was not entirely smart imo. The chances that they would succeed in their mission were small, the screenwriters missed their chance to add a lot of depth to Inej's character considering her backstory and the fact that she is now tasked with kidnapping a person (and she wasn't nearly scared enough of Tante Heleen even though she is still her property while in the books she is terrified of her after years of not being in her grasp anymore) and the fact that there is another way to cross the Fold that is allegedly safer and the Darkling knows of? Wow, what a plot hole. Jesper's addiction to gambling was also treated a lot more as a plot device rather than part of his journey as a character. Personally, I don't like how they were adapted. They had a couple of good scenes but they felt pretty lackluster and not nearly complex and fleshed out enough considering how much screen time was spent on them. At one point I was almost feeling like the show runners wanted to make the show about them actually and yet... Their characterization seems subtly but profoundly misdirected.

So this is literal months after the show’s release but I wanted to rewatch to figure out my thoughts before I responded. But my boyfriend wanted to watch it with me, but he also doesn’t really binge lol so it took awhile 😂

But yeah I agree the crows were overall adapted fairly poorly. The biggest problem for me was that their plot went essentially nowhere. It was just one long easter egg for book fans as a cash grab because SoC just has the larger and more vocal audience.

I understand the choice to adapt it all in a single TV show, and to include them all in the first season from a practical stand point: negotiating screen adaptations is difficult, just because the one project happened, it’s no real guarantee that a second series would actually make it through production hell and not fizzle out like plenty of other announced TV/movie adaptations; and early cancellations are fairly frequent, so there’s also no guarantee that a linear adaptation would stick around long enough for the Crows to be introduced.

So consolidating the IP and the fan bases makes sense, but artistically it just didn’t really work. Their entire plotline was just #hijinks. They didn’t really have any character development of their own. And while the main plotline was already really poorly paced, the occasional segue into a random *completely stagnant* plot just weighed it down even more. Like I wish they actually had something to do, or that we’d simply gotten their canon backstories, or a nonlinear glimpse into the future with the Ice Court heist. Just literally anything beyond the weird improv game style plotting we got with zero real development. Or like ideally the screen time could’ve been used to…god forbid… actually flesh out the world building and to give us a better glimpse of Ravka and how things works, maybe some court intrigue or anything else. (Give us back Genya’s scenes 😭😭)

I don’t know it was just a very poor use of screen time. And I’m just personally not as invested in the Crows without the intricate plot to bolster them, so I was pretty meh about their presence.

I did like the brief moments of characterization we did get, and seeing the main trio’s dynamic before anyone else joins up. Kit Young managed to somehow carry the entire show despite the script practically giving him nothing. His performance was fantastic and just like… the sheer personal charisma it takes to be that charming with so little help from the writing. I’m generally happy with the casting choices, they were all fun. It was just the writing team that really didn’t show up for them.

And yeah the “kidnap the sun summoner” plot was just… not a great idea imo. It makes sense for how to centralize the main goal and have them be relevant (unlike Nina just off having her random separate adventures lol) but just… it obviously wasn’t going to be successful. Even for an audience that hadn’t read the books, Alina was clearly framed as the main character. And the Crows heist plotline was handled with a sort of… humor I guess? where it’s absolutely clear from the first few episodes that they are not going to actually kidnap her and get the money. So with an impossible plot, you’d think they’d focus on character work instead, right? And yet!

Like you said, that could’ve been an excellent time to get into Inej’s head and flesh her out, give her moral dilemmas, etc. And just establishing where they are as people and giving them depth and things to emotionally overcome. But I feel like they were just deliberately held in limbo, probably because the writers were trying to preserve all their arcs for the SoC era in the plotline. (FWIW the random human smuggling train didn’t bother me as much. It established the steampunky adventure vibes Nikolai brings in later, and like crossing the fold isn’t impossible in the books either. It’s just extremely dangerous, which I think the show did address at all. Having completely secure borders isn’t really realistic in any sort of setting)

I’m really curious to see what they do with season two though. A lot of people have been talking about the Ice Court heist being introduced but that’s still not exactly chronologically a thing that happens yet? I don’t really…like… this writing team’s take on completely new content. I think they spin existing stuff in cool ways, but none of the wholesale new stuff completely worked for me. So I’m not even sure what I’d prefer here lol.

#shadow and bone #grishaverse #six of crows #okay also something that bothered me A LOT was how the show handled Jesper as a total comic relief? like in the books he’s *funny* #but it’s meant to be like in a suave and charming way? meanwhile in this almost all the jokes were *at his expense.* #again Kit Young pulled through amazingly and was so good in the role but I’m side eyeing the writer’s room hard #i ramble sometimes #long post #all the bendy punctuations #*writer's cap*

[whoslaurapalmer]

okay, final rule of wolves thoughts, clearly very spoilery, also literally just me talking about writing --

-there was a LOT going on plot wise but I feel like it was all paced pretty well, but at the end it did fall apart a little? mayu's pov just drops out?? (that's the book you should write next leighb not more crows as much as I love the crows but I'll get to that) zoya being queen is like phenomenal but also is really rushed?? same with nina and hanne?? they all become rulers completely unchallenged, without any difficulty?  -again, phenomenal moments and rightfully so and I'm glad they happen and they SHOULD, that difficulty shouldn’t always be there, nina calling it a beautiful dream but it being real matters so much, but it just doesn't feel.......narratively well done idk idk -i think it is just that it feels really rushed in some way  -like i don’t want them to have to work harder for that. but it IS really, really rushed 

-captain inej. my whole heart -kaz and jesper and wylan..........also my whole heart -kaz. my boy. the light of my fucking life.  -l o v e  h i m 

-i loved seeing zoya and genya and alina hang out at the very very end and wish there'd been moreeeeee

-ONCAT’S STILL ALIVE, THERE IS A GOD  -misha.......... :( 

-david's death -- on one hand, the cruel casualties of war, even when you think nothing can go wrong, the contrast in it happening right after the wedding, war and life can turn on a dime and that’s just, how it happens -- but, ugggg. It hurts bc there was so much of david and genya being precious and that shouldn't be the slap in the face it is when you read it again because then it's not sweet it's just foreshadowing loss and that's actually aggravating to think about. because we got so MUCH of it in rule of wolves. -especially bc david is THE ONLY casuality of the cast in this book????? literally the only one?????? unless i forgot someone????  -not that I WANTED more cast to die but. big casualties in alina's story and one (1) here. yes they've already lost a lot and zoya's garden shows that but, then especially why kill david 

-i don't know if I think the darkling gets redeemed -- I think it's a little funny that he brings together the starless one worshippers and he super hates them bc they aren't what he thinks he deserves and he can't completely manipulate them -- and I think him being resurrected in yuri in king of scars was a FASCINATING twist. because you read that and you think, oh my god, how are they going to handle that?????? 

-but, that's the thing, in writing -- it's not enough to write something that's a fascinating twist, you need to follow through with the right consequences of that twist. which means, you have the darkling again. what happens with him? he’s killed again -- but if immediately, why bring him back? if they wait to kill him, what is his worth to the plot that he lives longer? (and then he manages to manipulate them again!! as much as i wanted to see alina, i was really surprised that they actually, legitimately put them in the same room, that they even considered it, that they even asked alina!!! yes, nikolai will expend any avenue to help ravka -- but put alina and the darkling in the same room??????????) 

-he’s not killed again, or right away -- then he has to hang around. what does he do? does he try to regain his followers? he can’t because they aren’t who he wants. he has no one to go to. he doesn’t even go to alina again even if he knows where she is.  does he immediately plot against nikolai? but even the darkling admitted he can’t, but, since he did keep his powers, he’s clearly capable of it, actually. so then he’s just, trying to get the worshippers together and it just keeps going wrong for him like a sitcom plot? if he has to live -- is he redeemed? not every character can be redeemed. not every character DESERVES to be redeemed. does he hide and we never see him for the rest of the book? then that leaves an unresolved plot thread to be brought back later, and why? and then why not just kill him?  -then does he become a bigger plot problem for the characters that’s kind of unnecessary?

-so it brings me back to, again -- as fascinating a twist as it was, was it necessary? does the act of following through with the consequences come to outweigh the power of the twist, because those consequences cause more problems?  -and in general i think leighb is really good at working with ‘x happens -- there are consequences’ in her plots, so that’s why i’m so concerned about picking them apart 

-i’m sorry to make this like all about lulu talks about writing semantics but i respect leighb a lot as a writer particularly in her worldbuilding and characters which is why i want to think about this on a technical level  -so in the end -- is it a good twist??? or does it only harm or reduce the narrative that came before (he had to die and that was okay!!!!) and add an unnecessary additional plot problem to the narrative now??

-but -the darkling having to be the one in the thornwood, and finally stop the spread of the fold, what he himself was responsible for, that he deserves to finally suffer for because the darkling is a fuckwad and I hold like zero sympathy for him????? beautiful beautiful beautiful. (-but, again, it felt kind of too convenient, to have that be the answer to the blight.) (what should be the answer? i don’t know. it makes me wonder if the blight was something else unnecessary)  -but then genya forgiving him, for knowingly giving her to the king??? (not everyone has to be forgiven. not everyone can be forgiven.) zoya fulfilling his wish to be a saint???? which she did not have to do???? (guess it would appease the followers though??) giving him a pov???? like we need to know where he is, and it's funny that he's pissed off at the followers, but also maybe shouldn't be funny??? -oh what would've been fun (the good fun. not funny fun) was him wrestling with yuri more

-SPEAKING OF WRESTLING i know nikolai has to come to terms with the demon somehow and the failed obisbaya apparently helped but the demon was in the back quite a bit, I thought, even for as much as he shows up -maybe it’s just because it’s been like a year since i read king of scars 

-okay so the ending  -i know leighb said she wanted this to be like the grand finale of grishaverse but that she was still open to more and like i completely understand that but  -knowing when to end something is important, too. -every story has a natural conclusion. I think, yeah, there’s always, some piece that could probably still be talked about, BUT – you can’t just keep going back to a story or a world and try to draw more out of it, keep pushing something in it so you can push your characters and your story more and more. eventually it won’t feel the same. it won’t be a natural ending anymore, it will be, here is an end, OH LOOK HERE’S A NEW THING, here is an end, OH LOOK HERE’S ANOTHER NEW THING, and that’s already happening a little here. (-i don’t think it was bad that it happened with nikolai at the end of ruin and rising -- that’s leighb addressing the consequences of something that she set up, and why i think king of scars was necesary.) -stories end. character arcs, as we know them, come to an end. if not, then they are just mined for content, usually angst and drama, and that’s especially not good writing. you risk stopping creating something that feels genuine.  -so yeah i think king of scars was necessary to talk about the aftereffects of nikolai’s demon and where ravka is going. but i don’t know if i think it was successful.  -what bothered me about king of scars, even with the parts i did like, was actually nikolai and zoya meeting elizabeta and juris and grigori -i don’t know if i just thought it was unexpected and i’d feel differently if i read it again?? but i never forget reading it last year and feeling just, weird about it, like it was too out of left field, idk  -i think the connection between saints = grisha is important. but again it’s all just, execution stuff 

-i don’t think she should’ve set up a whole new adventure in the last like four pages, if it’s supposed to also have the ability to be a contained end to the story  -i don’t think it make sense to tease a new story!! i don’t think it’s needed!! i think it should have just had a plain happy ending with zoya taking the crown and being with nikolai!! i don’t think that’s bad!!!!  -i know the big thing is that, the downfall of grisha is the desire for power, and that’s what got alina (at least she got better. like the one time where ‘character lost powers’ is okay) and especially the darkling, but zoya has come really far in these two books in how she sees other people and working on relying on them as people she loves and i liked her chapters the best and they were what hit me the hardest, and i know it’s going to be a worry for her but i don’t think the idea of her becoming the darkling is something that should be given that weight  -ESPECIALLY IF IT WAS ONLY FOR FOUR PAGES 

-so yeah i think the logical next book would be a place leighb hasn’t explored, like with six of crows.  -there’s a lot to do with the shu and the kerghud that she could do and as much as i love kaz and think another heist would be cool, a heist has already been done and i think it would be a wasted opportunity to do that without doing something new in the grishaverse 

-it honestly really made me want to reread six of crows because i missed the crows a lot  -and i think it says a lot that so many people liked the chapters with kaz and jesper and wylan so much in rule of wolves -that was why i caved and bought rule of wolves right away!!! because i wanted to see the boy!!!!!! but i did also care about nikolai and zoya.  -personally i do think six of crows are the best books in grishaverse. i think they’re the most tightly plotted and have the best characters and are the most CONTAINED and the most compelling (even if i can’t always follow kaz’s implied background machinations) (i can’t always keep track of all the politics either!!) (not that big of a deal for me, though.)  -that duology is close to perfect. i think everything wraps up almost completely neatly (although i will, actually, be wondering now, about how death is handled in a narrative, re: matthias, because when i was reading them i thought, well, someone has to die in crooked kingdom, but, why? but anyway), and i love that the ending of it all is 1) characters continuing to change, and showing they will continue to change 2) inej reuniting with her parents aaaaaaa  (-worth noting though that the epilogue of ruin and rising is indeed one of my favorite things as well, too.)

-i did still enjoy rule of wolves, though!!! a lot of little moments i really really liked, and nikolai and zoya were beautiful and delightful and i love them too, and i do kind of want to reread king of scars and this one again to see if my opinion has changed when i read them closer together but -i also do really just want to reread six of crows, again. 

#i don't know what this is. i really went off here #just about a lot of things about. putting together a story