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batfamspews · 3 years

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Romance tropes are good and all, but you know what relationship trope is real juicy? Mentor/student. Now before you roll your eyes and brush me off, I’m not talking about the run-of-the-mill Ben Kanobi and Luke Skywalker mentor/student relationship where a wise old man teaches a curious youngster a skill set that makes them priceless. While the student might be frustrated with or appreciative to the mentor, the emotional connection there is pretty shallow. When the mentor dies we shrug it off, the student cries a little bit, everyone forgets them and there’s next to no emotional impact.

No, I’m talking about the relationship between a rebellious, rude teenager deemed worthless by society. Im talking about a straight rod, middle aged mentor with a religious zeal for honor and who has probably never broken a single rule in their life (Bonus points if they had a legalistic, obedience centered job such as a police officer or military veteran). Hear me out here.

Student is a messed up, broken kid either lacking authority or with crappy parental figures that don’t care about them. They’re a rebel and a troublemaker by choice and whether they’re proud of it or not they’re not going to change any time soon. Finally society gets to a point where they’re not going to tolerate student’s crap any longer and are ready to make an example out of them. That’s where mentor comes in. The clean-cut mentor sees the world as a system of values where everything is either right or wrong and there are no gray areas. They are not only the most respected person in society but one of the most adored. In other words, they are the exact opposite of student. When student faces harsh charges for their actions, mentor takes pity on them, resolving that if only someone had taught the teenager the difference between right and wrong they would be a loyal, upstanding citizen. Suddenly mentor is enlightened. What if THEY were the one to take student under their wing and change the course of their life? What a noble cause! Confident in their ability as a teacher, mentor offers to take student under their care and make it their personal responsibility to indoctrinate them. Student is reluctant to accept this because it means losing all of their previous freedom to an unsuspecting, ignorant mentor, but they have no choice. Student knows one thing for sure though. Mentor is going to regret this decision every moment they’re together.

Fast forward and nothing is going according mentor’s plan at all. Student is going out of their way to cause trouble and be disrespectful, and when mentor tries to teach them anything they blatantly ignore them, making it very clear that they don’t care. Mentor slowly begins to realize that they don’t know the first thing about raising children and have never once in their whole life felt so discouraged and clueless. The pressure builds up, until finally after a yelling argument with the kid the mentor breaks and tells them they wish they had never tried to help the student in in the first place. However, what hurts mentor the most is student’s response. “Figures. Nobody’s ever wanted me. I wouldn’t expect you to either.” The matter-of-fact apathy in student’s demeanor kills the mentor. They excuse themselves.

This confirms to student that they aren’t wanted and though they’re not surprised or even disappointed, for some reason their heart feels heavy and they decide to make things easy on the mentor. Later on that night, mentor is summoned. Student had gone behind their back and committed a heinous crime. To the rest of the community the solution is clear. They pat the mentor on the back and assure them that they did everything they could, that just by trying to redeem the lost soul they had proven to be one of the most heroic members of society. However, student has proven themselves impossible to correct and therefore must be dealt with rashly (e.g. they could be hanged for their crimes, sent to a juvenile prison, an asylum, a slave in the coal mines, just whatever works best for the fictional universe they’re in). What it all boils down to is that mentor doesn’t just have the right to bring the student to justice, but they should. It’s not just the fair choice, but it’s the wise, honorable, right choice. It’s the perfect situation for them. Give up the student that’s caused them nothing but pain and be hailed a hero.

They can’t do it. For the first time in their life, mentor is tempted to go against their better judgement, their honor and the wise counsel of their peers and make an emotional decision. Student was wrong when they said that nobody wanted them. Mentor wants them, though they can’t quite explain why.

Mentor is told they’re making a mistake, that their choice is foolish, that they’re just prolonging students overdue judgement, but they don’t care. They have made their decision. Mentor will recompense for student’s actions and though it will cost them both their honor and their physical possessions, they will take student back as their own and won’t give up trying to get through to them. Student is in shock. They had never dreamed that someone would sacrifice so much for a person who didn’t deserve it- specifically them. For the first time in their life they felt wanted. Protected. Heck, even loved.

Student doesn’t change over night, but they’re clearly more respectful towards mentor, more enamored by them and more receptive of their teaching. They no longer see mentor as their slaveholder, but as their protector and friend. Mentor doesn’t go easy on them and student does not hesitate to complain about the workload, but they begin to work with a new zeal because now they have a motive to work. They want to make mentor proud. For the first time they realize they’re desperately starved for mentor’s approval, so they work hard , begin to copy their habits, even go out of their way to do things without being asked. They never talk about their feelings, but they want to be close to mentor. For the first time they know what it feels like to be loved, and they want to return that love in every way possible.

Mentor has no idea what possessed student to change, but nothing in the world could have made them happier. They begin to recognize the student’s longing for approval and it occurs to them how much they want to pay it forth. Mentor knows what it’s like to do great things and be praised for their deeds, but they have never been more proud of anything than the scruffy little public nuisance that lived in their house. Student wasn’t just their responsibility, they became their joy. They were proud enough to call them their son/daughter.

Of course student doesn’t become perfect overnight. Clearly they revert to what they know and cause trouble multiple other times. However, the disappointment master expresses to them when they’re caught is enough to make them realize that they’re former way of living is no longer appealing to them. They value their mentor’s opinion too much and nothing hurts more than their disapproval.

This is just a sample of a mentor student relationship that could work in a variety of different storylines. It doesn’t need to be the main focus of the story (i.e. if the theme is action and adventure, then the student and mentor might be forced to go on a dangerous expedition, or the student might grow up and leave the mentor, or either the student or mentor is taken and the other has to go save them, something like that). What’s great about this relationship trope is that it creates a solid base for an impactful story. It might explain where the student gets their ideals, why they’re so strongly committed to their mission, or why the mentor is willing to give up everything they hold true to in order to save one specific person. If done correctly, imagine how painful it would be to the readers if either the mentor or student had to sacrifice themselves for the other. Imagine the arguments. Imagine them crying because they’re sick with worry for the other one.

The thing that sets this relationship apart from the Obi Wan and Luke mentor/student trope is the focus is on the relationship and not either person’s abilities or personal value. Both the mentor and student have to give up aspects of themselves, but they end up with something they value much more. It’s what’s special about both characters. I believe the lack of this relational foundation in most movies and books is why viewers lack interest in the main character’s goal when they’re looking for someone they care about. If the relationship is the backbone of the character’s motives, then it needs to be the backbone of the audience’s reason to cheer the character on.

What sets this apart from romance tropes (other than romance tropes being ridiculously overused) is that this is a relationship trope almost everyone can relate to. Not everybody has fallen in love, but everyone has had an authority figure in their life and many have had authority over someone else. The audience can relate to the characters, and the relationship becomes more real to them. And while there is absolutely nothing wrong with a romance trope when it’s DONE RIGHT, in my personal opinion, a well executed mentor/student trope tops all else. Or maybe I’m just a sucker for middle aged, honor-centered, FLAWED military veterans and rebel teen nuisances becoming each other’s everything. You can judge for yourself.

#story #writing #mentorstudent #mentor #student #relationship tropes #relationship #fictional characters #character design #tropes #action and adventure #parent child relationship #favorite tropes

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lady-plantagenet · 4 years

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What are your thoughts on Jaime x Cersei, Jaime x Brienne, Tyrion x Tysha, George x Isabel, and Henry VIII x Anne Boleyn? (Sorry for the long list!)

Glad to see someone else feeling charitable and letting me vent my unsolicited opinions 😂. Saved the George x Isabel for the last cause I’m sure it will be the longest lmao!

Asked Via: Send me a ship and I'll give you my (brutally) honest opinion on it: https://lady-plantagenet.tumblr.com/post/627331607624302592/send-me-a-ship-and-ill-give-you-my-brutally

Jaime x Cersei: Despite it’s fundamental flaws, it is... titillating to read. The idea of people falling in love with their own other-gender counterpart is twisted yet so intriguing. I must confess that I am not as disgusted by incest as most people, so bear that in mind. The thing is, Cersei is definitely a narcissist with a lot of internalised misogyny and this ship just feels so justified to her character.

The issue is, and as the books go on, it becomes quickly clear that Jaime’s love is not as deep and as his appearance changes, and they no longer look identical Cersei’s own mental image, Cersei’s love also wanes and then you’re hit with how shallow it was. So I ship these two... but I also don’t because they’re toxic? Honestly, book-wise I am intrigued to see what will happen, if they end up together... or they don’t... either way I’m sure it will be quite a ride. You see, I’m not emotionally invested.

Jaime x Brienne: Oh the Sapphires... Obviously anyone who cares for Jaime’s wellbeing would want him to end up with Brienne as opposed to Cersei. I read this interesting theory recently on how these two don’t actually love each other but confuse their strong platonic feelings of affection for romance. You see, that’s also an interesting take as both characters are quite bereft off opposite gender friendships.

However, I strongly ship them romantically as well, Book!Brienne (hey show as well!) is truly admirable because based on her choice in men e.g. Renly, you can see how she had still not given up on her maidenly fantasies and I just love her for that, because true love isn’t something to which only pretty women are entitled. She in many ways represents salvation for him as she being a true knight in spite of her gender, can veer him back into the path of chivalry. He is most chivalrous around her, I mean, not only because her good conduct influences but also because he performs some of the most knightly deeds by cause of her e.g. rescuing her from the bear pit. I like this ship, it’s a good trope subversion.

Tyrion x Tysha: I find this one of the more heartbreaking ships of ASOIAF, because to me it represents Tyrion’s loss of innocence.

She is a haunting figure because of how small remnants of her memory were enough to pull Tyrion into the toxic relationship he had with Shae e.g. she too hard dark hair and there was music around when he met her. Its one of those weird (as @omgellendean put it in her brutally honest ask tag answer - a character who consists of only a name), but unlike Ashara Dayne, she is not idealised and given this over-the-top tragic story. So this elusive Tysha is an entity by what she symbolises: foregone youth and a sweetness that has no place in the ASOIAF universe.

Henry VIII x Anne Boleyn: As I said in my last ask. I cannot tolerate the romanticisation of infidelity, and that is especially when the male’s spouse is a wonderful woman fit for him and has done nothing wrong. I don’t have strong feelings against Anne Boleyn herself, as I prefer to see her as ‘Anne the Educated and Sophisticated Reformer’ as opposed to ‘Anne the Seductress’. Ugh let me just say... rule of thumb for whether it’s a good pair: Do thousands have to die for your selfish desire to be together? Yes? Then probably not meant to be. Just a thought.

I think Anne knew her own mind and I like to think her strong beliefs influenced her decision to breach this marriage (no I didn’t think she was her father’s pawn gah I’m sick of that term), but they were ultimately unsuited in everything and it was a passion brought about by Henry’s caprice. My heart breaks when I think on how Anne could have been happily married to Henry Percy. I’m also tried of this whole ‘master manipulator of men’s hearts’ reputation Anne is getting. You do realise refusing to be a mistress was not being a tease as much as it was just being a conventionally virtuous woman..? The girl knew her worth.

George x Isabel: Oh god. I promise to not start writing an essay. As weird as it is to ship dead people, they are my OTP, the main characters of my main historyfanfic, and frankly the most unsung couple of TWOTR. The fact that there are no records of letters or any particularly over-the-top romantic gestures by either of them, just intrigues me more because it was very much a relationship defined in subtle deeds. If you peruse the more academic TWOTR literature you can see all the fine but conclusive evidences of a devoted relationship: He posthumously enrolled her in a guild when he stayed there with his children (months after she died), he was buried together with her and her ancestors not his, how during 1470 he sent her to Exeter for her safekeeping while her mother and sister remained at Warwick and when a siege broke out he (and his father-in-law) immediately rode south to lift it and the amount of expenses and care he put into her funeral. Not to mention, the hassle it took for them to get married: years of trying to get a dispensation underneath the king’s nose culminating in them having to cross the channel.

The thing is, it had a lot of politics behind it and to be honest I don’t find that less romantic. It was one right for both of them: for the wealthiest heiress in England and the handsome younger brother and heir of King Edward - truly no one else would do for any of them. One of the things that grabs me is the medievalness of it all, how they were bound together by what was essentially a plan to reverse the country’s inevitable transition out of ‘bastard feudalism’. You also get a sense of how this marriage despite the ultimate failure of its purpose (to make George King) brought George the chance to establish himself as a major magnate through his wife’s lands which ultimately became his main source of power as opposed to his royal status. The relative peace that ensued after 1472 shows that his status as Warwick’s political heir (as Christine Carpenter put it) did something to placate the disapointment of not becoming king. So the way I see it, Isabel’s death took from him any of the satisfaction and peace she brought with her lands and persona as he once again reverted to his old (even more than before) reckless self. Not to mention the people he executed after her death in his grief believe in her to have been poisoned (most historians believe that’s unlikely).

Aside from that, in a society where pretty much everyone strayed (even Anthony Woodville had a bastard daughter), it is quite heart-warming how the man known for his treachery, happened to be one of the only ones loyal to his wife: no bastards or women were ever linked to his name not even in rumour. As for Isabel, she is quite a shadowy figure but you get the sense she was intelligent because of the care her father took in preparing her as his heir, because of her wealth you get this sense of majesty and significance about her. The two times we can deduce anything about her personality is a true supporter of her husband: once, when deciding to treat with the Yorks behind her father’s back to reconcile George to them, second, remaining steadfast to George when he tried to squirrel her sister Anne out of her inheritance. Based on the homage she paid to her ancestors, she seems proud of her ancestry so it’s quite intriguing to think why she made the aforementioned two choices, endangering her father and sister in favour of her husband. And oh god I’m rambling, I can say even more if you can believe it but I shall stop. Overall, one might think I’m wishful thinking but frankly Anne and Richard are touted as star-crossed lovers all the time and with even littler evidence to support it (not that I don’t ship them, I do). I might be subjective, but the story of George and Isabel’s life is just so compelling...

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foxstens · 4 years

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some more fate musings

find it so interesting how when i decided to read fsn i was like 'ok so im sure ill probably hate most of this but i need to slog through it for the Lore so that f/z can really become one of my faves'

and then i ended up hating f/z and caring so little about the lore that i refuse to watch anything fate-related not set in fuyuki

like the lore is still great and i do care about it but only within fsn and fha. the rest can be canon or not canon or whatever and i dont give a flying fuck

and f/z.... idk like somehow i didnt know that it'd have inconsistencies and that it's so different themes and execution-wise?

i guess it was a misjudgment on my part bc the pieces of media i love most are always the ones with tons of slice of life and character interactions that only bring in the Plot and the Pain after you've gotten very attached to the characters and their world. and that also happen to have optimistic themes and endings

and f/z is the literal polar opposite of that. i knew i dont mesh well with urobuchi's work for these reasons and yet i still feel so incredulous. like theres ppl who have consumed everything fate-related and love f/z the most out of all of them. and i findcthat very interesting

and so im left to wonder how i'd feel about fate in general had i started with f/z. there's still the risk that i wouldn't have liked it bc like i said, i dont mesh well with urobuchi's works. but at the very least i probably wouldn't have hated it as much as i do now

but i wonder how i would've felt abt ubw or the vn if i decided to dive into either of those. watching ubw after it wouldve been a horrible idea bc it /is/ the middle part of a three-part story and horrible if you expect a sequel to f/z. but i have no idea how f/z wouldve changed my experience with the vn

im so glad that i didnt go down that route tho. im kind of proud of myself for it. bc normally i wouldnt have even bothered with watch order or source material or whatever, especially when the vn is over 1 million words long. i wouldve just dived into f/z and been on my way

but reading fsn was such a special experience, life-changing even. and i am so glad i went into it knowing next to nothing about the franchise or even visual novels as a medium. and it might have raised the bar a bit too high when it comes to visual novels and especially their fandiscs but i dont regret it for a second

(also nobody knows about this but what really made me aware of the franchise was emiya gohan. bc i had heard about the millions of shows with fate in the title but i hadnt looked them up at all. then i saw its poster on an anime updates blog and i was like 'this looks nice what is this' and then i looked up fate and everything was too complicated so i was like ':( guess im never watching it' and then somehow at some point i came across deen/stay night's op and then f/z's second op and now here i am)

on another note i guess the reason i see so many ppl complain abt the cooking and school scenes early on in the fate route (and why i skimmed some of them myself at the time) is bc at that point you don’t know how important that part of life is for these characters. i mean i’ve seen ppl call fsn’s slice of life scenes ‘horrible’ a few times but i honestly don’t know in what way they’re worse than other vns’ sol scenes.

apart from that when ppl talk negatively abt those scenes they mostly mean the beginning of the fate route when the plot is kind of an afterthought that shows up once in a while while shirou goes on with his life. and that’s when you’re still getting introduced to the characters and shirou himself so you don’t know that shirou doesn’t really have anything other than the cooking and the cleaning and the helping other people.

i wonder if that's the reason ppl don't seem to like them in the hf movies. bc if you just watch ubw and then jump into hf you are nowhere near as familiar with and attached to the characters as when you spend 40+ hours with them. bc in the vn by the time you get to hf you have a pretty good grasp on shirou’s character so you understand why those scenes are so important. at the same time you get to know sakura better and you see how important this part of life is for her too, especially as the shadow starts affecting her more and more. so yea that’s also one of those things that makes the vn such a different experience.

altho there are also ppl who read both fsn and fha and still don’t like those scenes and that’s valid. probably. eh

#my posts #liveblogging #animanga #liveblogging fate #my rambles #read more

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blueswapuniverse · 7 years

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Asks Day 12

Anon: I'm sorry if you're getting asked this a lot, but... how's that AU going? The one where BD survives giving birth? Plopp: There are two snags with that. One, the thingy is very very very bad. Two, I started school, so it's either devote time to CC or a bad execution of an idea. Anon: what would happen if Steven meet other Stevens yellow Steven $uck you no no no $uck me canon Steven hey stop being mean yellow Steven no yellow Steven hey blue Steven lets work together and destroy the crystal gems Cnv99:????? Anon: What would White Diamond's reaction to this be??? Cnv99: We don’t know enough about her to construct a personality. Maybe she’s be the silent and cold type. Or just a don’t give no fucks badass aunt who is proud of her sad blue fleshy Nephew. Sergeant Plopp: It'll be way in the future regardless of if she appears or not. Anon: I've been thinking about Yellow Diamond's reaction to realising Steven is Blue. Maybe it'd be like Rameses from prince of Egypt in reverse: she'd be angry and frustrated at the inherent blaspheme, sad that she lost what you could call a sister, some regret if she feels she was a bit too warmonger-y (she has complete control of Homeworld's military) to properly help Blue through her grief and ultimately decides that she should train Steven to be a diamond, kidnapping him if needbe Cnv99: Tough love. But didn’t Rameses tried to follow Moses and his followers and slay them all after letting them go? Scary thought. Anon: what year will Steven die im not trying to troll really. Cnv99: Soon. (I’m not trolling really) Anon:who made the diamonds? Cnv99: Sneople Anon: what is rose opinion of communism Cnv99: ?????? Anon: so how did Blue handle having a baby? since it's all so new and different for a gem cnv99: Blue wanted to know so much about the Earth and how it works. Greg eventually tells her about humans, families and babies. It took her awhile to understand but she understood in the end. She loved Greg so much to have a child despite the risks. Anon: different person remember the rose=Lenin thing thats the Steven soviet au takes place in 1956 soviet russia where the crystal gems are a communist party and the diamonds are other countries yellow is Nazi Germany a tightly run country scared of revolt blue is USA a free market country white i think is ether UK or Italy and pink was the Russian empire before being overthrown so Steven is the son of rose very rich and wants to join the crystal gems and stop invaders Steven is also home schooled Plopp: Last time we’ll answer something like this. Keep your au ideas to your AU’s. Anon: because you have been bombarded by plot related questions i will ask something diferent: how did blue pearl reacted to the common kid injuries that most kids suffer in their childhood? did she was alarmed when steven had his first fall from bycicle?, did she was concerned when he begean his first steps?, and did ever crossed in her mind the posibility of stevenown mortality? Cnv99: Bloop is composed and well-behaved Pearl. She had been like that all her life but when her Diamond died and Steven was born everything she knew was thrown back to space. She constantly worries for his safety. She knows Humans are fragile beings. She is with him 24/7. But with her being a Pearl, she serves him well. She got frustrated at first, Her new fleshy Diamond could not speak or command her and couldn’t even hold a spoon. But she loved him and cares for him deeply. More than anything in this entire galaxy. Anon: will you get a face book page Cnv99: We’re not sure really. I don’t like facebook much tho. Anon: another person i seen some good intros ill try one of mine we are home world well shatter the crystal gems today and if you think we cant well shatter you anyway and than find a way thats why the gems of home world believe in yellow white and Steven? Plopp: Neat idea, we won't use it. Anon: Will Lars still die in this AU considering Steven isn't wanted on Homeworld like Canon!Steven is? Plopp: He probably will not die. The events of wanted wouldn't happen without a rose Quartz hybrid Anon: have you seen the Steven and Connie i seen some good au its where Connie gets trapped in gem tech and goes missing so Steven goes to school and becomes a scientist/alcoholic because of the loss of his best friend. 20 years later he brings her back and she did not age a day for a while there friends again but having trouble talking to each other adult and teen so Steven accidentally makes an inter dimensional portal gun now they both go on adventures. OK I AM NOT MAKING THIS UP Plopp: that's rick and morty’s basic idea Anon: Would yellow diamond send someone from homeworld like the Rubies to go fine blue? Plopp: Like we've said, Yellow is waiting her out. Anon: will Steven get limb enhancers Plopp: Nope! But there's a pic of a concept on Cnv’s blog! Anon: Theory - In the "Blue Diamond survives" story, Rose and Blue aren't going to fight at first - Blue still dislikes the Gems for killing her sister. But now, thanks to Greg and Steven, she has more of an understanding of why they did it - even if she still misses Pink Diamond a lot(and will probably react poorly when learning about Rose maybe being framed). What is going to start their fight instead is Rose not fully understanding Greg and Blue's relationship, and trying to flirt with her husband. Plopp: Excellent theory. Anon: I assume Yellow would invade Earth to get Steven when she finds out about him? Plopp: Hm, would that happen? Anon: Er, I have a question for the AU where Blue's alive - since she's not exactly too understanding of human relationships, would Rose still try to flirt with Greg, or would she understand he was off-limits after he or Blue told her? Plopp: Would she? You'll have to see their dynamic. Anon: What would the blueswap equivalent of Smoky Quartz be, anyways? Also, I think they would have a flail-like weapon. Plopp: That's a good question. Exactly how could a diamond be improved fusion-wise? As for the weapon, you're wrong. Anon: will steven be a judge in rose quartz trial Plopp: That would be a conflict of interest, my friend, because they're friends. Anon: blue swap theory Stevens true power Steven has the power to be almost immortal like VERY Slow ageing and live at least a few eons aka a few billion years if he feels like a child Plopp: I don't know if anyone has caught it, but Steven is hiding his appearance via his mindset. Anon: will there be a story where greg finds the deed to his uncles mansion Plopp: Interesting question! Hm, they sure will need more space if more gems keep moving into the palanquin. Anon: Connie i dont renounce Steven and i never have i just trying to protect pearl i wanted you to have a normal life thats something you cant have when Stevens shows up everything real turns fake everything right is wrong all you know is that he knows everything and you know nothing well hes not a villain pearl but shouldn't be your hero hes more like a demon or a super jacked up god yellow diamond lets not polish his gem to much he was a traitor and now hes shattered Plopp: M’what?? Anon: will there be a Disney land or vacation spot type place for the diamonds and elite gems like a tropical island Plopp: No one rests on homeworld, not even the diamonds. Except Blue, because she was depressed.

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