#my friend said 'wow that looks like a character fandom would not interpret correctly' | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

devintrinidad · 4 years

Text

So Uhm, CAW anon here. I haven’t been into Hetalia for years. But I feel like talking about a few things I noticed back in fandom a lot that I didn’t see at all in the canon manga/anime (though Hetalia itself is just a fanfic of history. I’m only focusing on character and relationships present in the canon series).

Ok a lot has probably changed since the last couple of years in fandom. But back then I saw a lot of depictions of the FACE group: England and Canada not having much of a relationship. France and Canda being the closest while France and America aren’t close at all. America and Canada having a strained if not dysfunctional brotherly bond. Canada having no backbone and being a sad sack all the time or just being a pure angel with no flaws. America being too childish.

I’m going to try to remember all the canon bits to back me up. But I’m mostly curious if there’s anything off and your (most likely much more up to date and informed) thoughts.

Canada and England have a pretty good relationship from what I’ve seen. We’ve sen plenty of material of England being present in colony Canada’s life. He used to cook for him too (poor Canada) and Canada spent almost about the same amount of time with him as America did. Later on Canada chose Enlgand over America when the colonies revolted. He didn’t want to pick a side but in the end he did. He fought against American troops. Was there when England was heartbroken over the fighting. He even acted as a strategist, using his knowledge as America’s twin brother to use America’s weaknesses against him (sending surrender papers inside a basket of food. America was so hungry it took George Washington telling him to resist to not take the bait). Later on when America and Canada were trying to mend their relationship. Canada would get so nervous and have England talk for him all the time instead (which only confused America). England did it without any fuss despite any issues he and America might still have. Overall Canada recalls having a good childhood and England was a part of that. The two might not be as close as America and England are, but they have their own history and bond both are very comfortable and happy with each other.

America and Canada. Fans I ran into often focused on America and England’s dynamic history. But the North American brothers have a lot of their own turmoil and strength to them as well. While Canada might,moan about being invisible and such. Canada also remembers having a very fun childhood with America. So much he remembers how sad he was when America grew up much faster then him and couldn’t play with him all the time like he used to. When Canada told America he didn’t want to fight, only to choose England, America felt betrayed. He loved Canada and wanted his twin brother to fight for freedom with him. Their relationship went pretty sour for a long time. But the two did end up trying to be mature later on in life and congratulate each other despite how annoyed they are at how different the other is.

From there we only get brother goodness. They can bug each other a lot. Canada takes for granted everything America has done and gone through, things that have also been good for Canada. While America likes to mess with Canada and act pushy with him. They do like to horse around and spend time together. Despite their differences, they’re probably the closest siblings in the world of nations. They’ve gone through their bitterness and still chose to be close brothers in the end. They like to play sports together. They like to use their appearances to mess with England who can’t tell them apart like France can. They call each other on the phone a lot. They have a joint Search for Santa Claus operations every winter. America respects Canada’s opportunity and ability to easily get along with others. He also takes Canada’s concerns very seriously and offers reasonable and helpful advice such as how to help his citizens get along. Canada’s opinions must mean a lot to him since Canada is the only individual to make America cry in despair when he went into his 3 hour insult rant against him. Despite his complaints about his personality, Canada looks up to America as a big brother who he always goes to for comfort or help. He respects and admires America a lot and trusts him as his closest confidante (after his polar bear. Not that that bear is ever helpful). Overall America and Canada have their downs like every sibling pair has. But they also seem to have a very strong and stable connection where they can act like brothers and best friends. Sometimes I think it’s easier to imagine America is closer to Canada then he is to England.

America and France. Back then these two didn’t get a lot of attention. Which is strange because there’s tons of material of them interacting throughout the centuries. France used to cook for America when England wasn’t around (I bet when Colony America said English food was as good as French food, some thing broke inside France. The reason America started disliking English food is because France made it his mission to salvage some of his tastebuds. Xp). France has been the only FACE member to stay by America’s side without conflict. Both of them obviously had a close bond since France gave America Lady Liberty and you could see teasing and ruffling America’s hair like a big brother. The two hang out a lot. They go to Maid Cafes together. They seem to have lunch together all the time at conferences since France is always looking for America to go eat together. They apparently also have sleepovers a lot and like to compare different genres of movies. Whatever issues their people can have with each other never seems to affect their personal interactions. France is the big brother of love and that’s sometimes a running gag for jokes. But he really seems to be like a normal big brother figure for America. He often worries about America and Russia’s scary relationship and chides England for raising America to be weird. In a deleted strip, France is preventing America from drinking alcohol because he’s too young (being physically 19). It also gets a bit heartwarming when you recall the Joan of arc strips where France meets the reincarnation of Joan and she’s an American. Almost like America is now taking care of Joan and giving her the opportunity to be free and happy in ways she couldn’t before.

Also while it’s not part of their dynamic. It’s always interesting that when the author wanted to show the Nation’s personal relationships with humanity. He always chose America and France. The supposed happy go lucky airheads who often gain a affectionate yet somber (to even downright tragic) experience from it.

Overall America and France have a nice quiet and stable relationship. You could say while England raised America as a colony. France was among the mentors to America on how to be his own Nation.

I think that’s it. Again my memory might be foggy but that’s what I can recall. =P

~~~

WAIT A MINUTE YOU’RE ALSO A HETALIAN??? AND YOU NEVER TOLD ME???

Okay, I’m going to prioritize this ask/submission thing first because wow, you’re a Hetalian and Hetalia has a special place in my heart. First of all, I’m kind of flattered that you think that I’m up to date for this, hahaha. I’ll have to tell you, while I do know a lot about American history, I’m actually more of a fan of the Itabros, hehehe.

A few tumblr people that I know specialize in Hetalia and have already posted FACE dynamics a lot in the blogs are, but not limited to: @historihet @stirringwinds and @ellawritesficssometimes. I’m not sure if Ella is still active, but there’s a lot of content that you can browse through if I’m not thorough. Also, again, the list of tumblrs that have been associated with FACE are definitely more than I can imagine, those are the three that I follow and know off the top of my head.

To @historihet @stirringwinds @ellawritesficssometimes, I love your interpretations and love for history! If I say anything inaccurate or something you don’t find to your liking, please inform me! I don’t want to spread misinformation and I’m just so excited to talk about Hetalia to my dear Anon Friend :D

If you’re reading this, I hope that you all have a wonderful day! And keep up the great work with your own analyses/fanart/fanfiction/etc. You guys rock and keep the fandom alive. :D

Anywhoozles, what you said here is fairly accurate. FACE definitely has its up and downs. Assuming that you haven’t been active in the fandom since... let’s say 2012-2014ish era, you might have noticed that the common bonds are Canada and France (platonic), France and England (rivalry/lovers/enemies), and the most concerning relationship America and England (brothers/rivals/lovers???). What you said in your analysis really applies within the sense of what is considered to be manga/anime canon, not necessarily historical canon.

In historical canon (if you want to go down that route), FACE is one dysfunctional mess if you want to consider it as one family unit. Every one of them at one point has been at each other’s throat at one point (whether it be at war or just snubbing the other because of politics).

We have:

1. The Revolutionary War (England vs America)

2. War of 1812 (Canada/England vs America, with special emphasis in 1814 because Canada burned down America’s White House if I remember correctly)

3. The XYZ Affair (I’m pretty sure it was a snub in diplomacy??? which actually started a war???)

4. The fact that American promised to help France in their own revolution, but Washington said no because we’re still a new country and all that jazz (...I know this because of Hamilton IF YOU’RE ALSO A HAMILFAN I WILL CRY)

5. And like the entire history of France/England is just its own thing

As you can probably tell, FACE... I think was just a term for the fans to make this makeshift family dynamic that is cute in some respects if this was like a human au, but definitely a cluster of effs if you imagine them as eldritch abominations that were brought to life because of human imagination.

Like, the dynamics can go in so many directions if you want to choose one aspect of history over another.

In @stirringwinds, they often write/draw about America as this Prodigal son who happens to be like the Crown Prince succeeding his once proud father. (America turning into a superpower after the World Wars and the English Empire just kinda dismantling itself because of everything.... OF COURSE THAT’S AN OVERSIMPLIFICATION, PLEASE DON’T KILL ME FOR INACCURACY!

Whereas for another tumblr, @historihet they portray the USUK relationship as more of a ship. Like, the whole brother relationship that is skewed in the anime/dubs/subs (this is due to the fact that some fans take the whole older brother thing too literally because in Japan, you call your elders/peers that happen to be older than you via polite endearments) is more of a... I’m not gonna say paternal, but it was more of a mentor thing? I’m not sure, I haven’t interacted with them much, but I’m pretty sure they ship it. Plus, their art is so amazing and they’re obviously a fan of history because wow, their head canons and their art is so beautiful and detailed.

As for the whole France and Canada relationship, I think this can be further elaborated via @ellawritesficssometimes. I remember reading that France and Canada, while having a similar relationship to England and America, it wasn’t that close or as heartwarming as many fans make it out to be. If you follow Canadian history, I’m pretty sure Canada was under French rule for a sort time before becoming part of the English Empire. Like, Canada was part of the Empire for a longer time than under France. This means that France wasn’t always there, England was. You can further read between the lines about the English/Canadian relationships, especially if you consider the fact that America fought an entire revolution to get away from England because of neglect on England’s part and on Canada’s part.... all he had to do was ask.

Soooooo....

Overall, I’m glad that you told me that you were part of the Hetalia fandom. It’s nice to see that the fandom is still alive and kicking, hahah. That reminds me, I’ve got to finish my series concerning Italia Veneziano, oops. Just wondering, but why did you want to talk about this? Not that I mind, it just seems out of the blue...

Thanks for the analysis and your chat! I hope that you have a wonderful day! :D

Please don’t tell me you want a FACE fic, hahahah. XD

43 notes · View notes

clairen45 · 5 years

Text

About that Dark Visions comic...

I think it’s fair to say that when Marvel��s Dark Visions miniseries about Vader as seen from a different perspective was announced, everybody was excited. We have been hammered on the head since ROTS that “there are heroes on both sides” , and with the expectations concerning the end of the saga as a massive redemption and hope plot, you were bound to be curious about what they would come up with. TBH, I was not expecting to see a softer side to Vader. It would be wrong to expect anything like that, and it would somehow diminish from what happens to him in the OT. He is supposed to be more machine than man. So, no, I definitely did not expect him, or wished him to be the kind of guy operating as the Death Star Secret Santa, knitting socks for the poor and needy, or rescuing people’s pets. It was not my understanding that he was much loved by his Imperial “colleagues” either. When we first see him in ANH; he is derided and dismissed both by a colleague (sorry, forgot the name but you all know whose faithless person I am thinking of) and Leia. Respected for sure, because of the fear he instills in people. So if awe is obviously the right word to use, in the most etymological sense of the term, that is to say “ a feeling of reverential respect mixed with fear or wonder”, how many people found Vader awesome? Besides the audience. There had to be. And as a concept, it was pretty cool.

That being said, if you think of the title for the series, there were already many ways of interpreting it. Dark Visions... Visions of the power of the Dark Side? The way some people saw Vader? The way Vader thought people saw him? Did the stories happen for real or are they just what the title imply they are: visions. Images. Fantasies. Daydreams or nightmares? Possibly just the imagination of some deranged mind. There is something there that implies that we are not dealing with something too objective. But rather something unhinged and disturbing.

Now, I intend to keep this in mind about the issue that has been raising so much concern: “Tall, Dark, and Handsome”. I think malaise is really the word we should settle for. This issue is problematic in many ways.

For those who haven’t read it or just heard about it through social media and people complaining about it (possibly people on the other side of the spectrum fanning about it), this is how you can sum it up: this is the first person narrative of an unnamed nurse, working on the Death Star for Vader’s personal doctor. The nurse has developed an obsessive infatuation for Vader that has her snoop around him and collect bits and pieces about him (mostly gorish remains of his time at the medical bay) that she hides in her room. She keeps on daydreaming about him and the connection she thinks they have, until one day she musters up her courage and goes to talk to him in his private quarters in order to let him know of her love for him. He cuts her off in all the meanings of the word, both interrupting her speech of eternal devotion and undying love, and piercing her through with his saber. Last moment we see her is lying dead on the floor while he moves away and asking for the sanitation to rid him of the “garbage”.

Ok, that’s a tall order. Here are points that I find entirely problematic.

1.The Question of Agency:

The authors decided to give a voice, a narrative agency to a character that is presented as inconsequential to the story. She is an anonymous nurse, a dot, in the bigger picture of the Empire. Much, let’s say, like our current ST heroes: Rey, Finn, and Rose, who started as “nobody”, even more so in the case of Finn and Rey who have literally been deprived of their identities. You could think it’s cool to thus give a voice to this nurse. Even more so when you consider that throughout the comic, she is presented as downtrodden, poor, pushed over, abused physically and verbally, dismissed, and despised. Her employer disrespects her constantly, calling her “fool”, “idiot”, or “stupid”. He shoves her around, and also diminishes her job, calling it “not a real job” or insinuating that she does not do her job correctly. Cases in point:

And what do we get in this story? A female nobody who starts asserting herself. Wow.

She tells her own story. First person narrative. She becomes an agent.

Look at the evolution of her daydream fantasies. She starts from damsel in distress who needs a man to protect her from her daily abuser

From nurse whose job means something, to a solid professional, and equal partner to her fantasy Lord:

And finally a powerful woman in her own rights, even overshadowing her partner, and who is able to defend herself.

Which then matures into her mustering up the courage to speak for herself, and tell her feelings to the (unwilling) object of her affection.

Except that.... well...she is just presented as a massive psycho. And, ok, it’s fair, we all know that there are female stalkers, and that her obsession for Vader is totally crazy because she doesn’t know anything about him, and she actually fell for someone who was treating her as poorly as the others. But there is the malaise there... The mix of female empowerment and batshit craziness. That’s what put a lot of people ill-at-ease. I wouldn’t even call that subversion, because, dudes, what are we subverting there exactly. It’s not like women are not daily abused and treated poorly at work and in their relationships on a daily basis... And are we supposed to take that as a cautionary tale about fangirl craziness? Because, there again, why did they need to have that girl get such a shitty treatment all through the comic. It is like the comic says that she deserved it. In the end it’s not just Vader calling her trash. It’s also the doctor calling her trash for most of the comic, and even have her literally waddle in a trash compactor. Cause this was supposed to be subtle?

Like, fine, if it were only Vader calling her garbage because the man is just dead inside, which, fairly, is represented in the comic. But it’s just not Vader, it is the way the character is presented through the eyes of the doctor AND even through the eyes of a cartoonist who keeps on representing her with the stupidest darned faces.

And there is no other viewpoint. Family, friends, other nurses or colleagues who could give us another idea about her. Or explain why she is like that. Nope. Basically, this woman is given a voice just so she can be cut off mid-sentence and made... fun of... I guess? Was that the author’s goal? Is it what we are supposed to feel? About this pathetic character and her pathetic life, dreams, goals, feelings, and eventual demise?

The “Subversion” of Female Romantic Tropes

Like ... LOL... How is that “subverted” anyways? But, ok, let’s go through them. It has all the classic elements of female literature.

The Cinderella story: nobody falls for high lord and expects to be swooped off her feet. Complete with ball scene, because, yes, why not? I give them a point, though, for the cool reflection on the ground which has her in her regular scrubs... BTW, Beauty and the Beast in the mix as well.

the nurse complex! Otherwise known as the Florence Nightingale effect. You know, woman is going to take care of the guy... They even made her a real nurse! Again, so subtle. Couldn’t make her any other profession and still be victim of this complex.

the reference to so-called “trashy” female lit, think bodice ripping, Harlequin, and their infamous covers. Even the title of the comic: “Tall, Dark, and Handsome”

The effing Phantom of the Opera!

and of course all the female discourse about love, because, yep, trashy: “kindred spirits” etc...

And again, how are we supposed to interpret it? Well, hang on, this woman, remember, is a bat-shit crazy deluded psycho, who has delusions about life and love. Oh, and the doctor says she is trash. And he throws all her stupid gory, disgusting trickets in the trash. Oh and also Vader says she is garbage. Well. Ok. So, I guess all of that which mattered to her, all her ideas, all that she loved, was just that. Trash. Garbage. Well, take that, you female reader!

But wait, it gets even better...

Star Wars is just trash!

Yep, because on closer look, most of the fantasies this woman has are very Star-Warsy. I am floored that they are actually trashing these:

Anakin and Padmé’s Naboo scenery, green, lush, terrace, nightgowns...

The scene when Anakin learns about Padmé’s death:

and of course, the one that you were not expecting... Reylo... “You are not alone”

Again, why is this problematic? In itself, it is fine and fair to be making fun of trashy female literature and campy romance novels, it is also fine to make fun of crazy stalkers, and it is also fine to be making fun of Star Wars. So why does it feel so icky in this comic somehow?

You can’t help but feel disgusted when you consider how poorly this woman is represented. There is not one aspect of her life that is not ridiculed. And again, this is about a woman who has NOTHING. They could have the girl fall in love with Vader and being killed by him because he is a cold-hearted machine. He killed his wife, the love of his life, so yea, of course he will feel not a pang of remorse or hesitation at killing this nobody who thinks she is in love with him. But they did not need to make fun of the very little she had in her life: her dreams. Her effing dreams. Plus the crazy stalker psycho. And the crazy face. And the fact that again we are talking about a woman, who had NOTHING. No family, no connection, no friends, no respect at work, not many possessions except her sad little Vader treasure chest.

And again, context. Here we are, reading a Star Wars comic where a lot of fanboys have been using the EXACT same terms to ridicule women in the fandom. Especially in the Reylo context. Trash. Garbage. Crazy bitches. Ridiculing theories about ... well, well, ain’t it a sweet surprise... Phantom of the Opera, or Beauty and the Beast parallels with Reylo. I’ll be damned. It feels crazy awkward, if you ask me. I mean, again, it’s all fair, but you don’t do that when you are in the midst of a toxic fandom war.

So why do I give zero F... about it in the end?

If some antis in the fandom saw that as validation, well, let them have their moment of happiness. It won’t last. We can give them that.

One, I don’t think for one second that it means anything about what will happen in the ST as far as Reylo is concerned. Again, they are even making fun of Anidala in the comic, and dude, that thing happened. As my good friends from @lordsofthesithpodcast would tell you after their glorious SWCC panel : Romance, these ships belong in Star Wars.

Two, as I highlighted in the introduction, this belongs in the Dark Visions series. It is meant, in my own opinion, to be disturbing and unhinged. Not sugar coated. So maybe the whole point was shock value. Mission accomplished. It was poor taste again given the context and the awful treatment THEY (and not just Vader) give their female character, but yea, dark visions. Not Star Wars Adventures. You have to look at the target audience and everything.

Three, if it were not for the in-your-face references to female tropes, I actually took most of it as a critique of fandom in general. The problem is not that she is a fangirl. There are some crazy obsessive fangirls, mind you. The problem is that they are making fun of all things female on top of that. But, remove the romantic aspects. Couldn’t that apply to fanboys as well? I could totally picture a cadet, or some other young imperial, developing the same crazed obsession over Vader. And it was just as toxic. And, tbh, it could very well be. Collecting trinkets is not just a girl thing, and after seeing with my own eyes the tons of merch purchased by fanboys at the recent SWCC convention, or the obsessive way some guy could talk to you about Vader and the minute trivial details in his life, or that they are the only ones understanding the guy, well yea... it works...

I’ll even go a step further. I wondered for a sec if the whole thing was not even a critical meta about the franchise as a whole. Let me explain. Some fanboys have complained about the femininization of the franchise, that is “polluting” the shades of Pemberley, I mean Star Wars. Claiming that what is happening right now is utter garbage. Also also, I have another possible reading which has the nurse representing the current state of the fandom and how crazy obsessed they can be over a franchise that some currently view as tired and dead inside (especially since it has fallen into the fold of Disney). Representing the unhealthy relationship between the two. And guess what, it doesn’t end well for the fandom. Who will never get what they want.

I will finally quote this from Chuck Wendig who was fired from the project and came up with that particular comment on Twitter, and which actually seems to go with how I tried to read it myself:

Apropos of absolutely nothing, my issue three of SHADOW OF VADER was about a toxic fanboy (a morgue attendant on the Death Star) who became obsessed with Vader. (And it didn’t end well for him. Er, obviously.) I thought it was good and I’m sorry you won’t see it! Onward we go.

I think they kept some of the original idea from Wendig, but it took a turn for the worse. It would be great if the authors cared to explain about their intent for this piece if any. I am not saying they should. I actually totally respect and support full freedom of speech and authorial choices. It is our choice, then, as a reader to read or not the material we don’t care about. I am just curious to know their opinion I guess, and I was not able to find any comment online. If anyone has a reference, I am interested...

In any event, I think everyone should read the comic for themselves if they are curious about it. Better to make your own opinion about it.

#reylo fandom #star wars comics #dark visions #darth vader dark visions #tall dark and handsome

91 notes · View notes

advocatewrites-blog · 7 years

Text

Into the Unknown Part 1 Chapter 1

Into the Unknown

Genre: Fantasy, Hurt/Comfort, Adventure, Horror

Fandom: Undertale, Coraline (book), Over the Garden Wall, Paranorman, Gravity Falls (season 2)

Played as: Straight

Style: Adaptation Divergence

Synopsis: 7 human souls to break the barrier. 7 humans who travel through the wood. And perhaps all of them are necessary this time.

Characters: Frisk, Norman B., Dipper P., Mabel P., Coraline J., Wirt, Greg, the Cat, the Frog; Sans, Toriel, Papyrus, Undyne, Alphys, Asgore,; the Other Mother, the Beast, Agatha P., Bill Cipher, Asriel D., Chara D.,

Pairings: Not the focus. Alphys/Undyne, with mentions of Papyrus/Mettaton, sans/Toriel/Asgore, and Wirt/Sara. Due to the nature of Undertale and the dating segments, there is also interpretable Papyrus/Wirt, Undyne/Mabel, Alphys/Dipper, Napstablook/Norman, Mettaton/Norman, Mettaton/Mabel, Sans/Dipper, Sans/Norman, and Sans/Greg.

Rated a high +K for violence, mild language, horrific elements that may be disturbing to younger readers, mentions of child abuse and bullying, character death that is sometimes permanent, and mentions of suicide that may be triggering. These elements remain relatively unchanged from their source material, which most all are for children, but discretion is advised nonetheless.

Disclaimer: Undertale was created and owned by Toby Fox. Coraline was created by Neil Gaiman and owned by Bloomsbury and Laika. Over the Garden Wall was created by Patrick McHale and owned by Cartoon Network. Paranorman was created by Sam Fell and Chris Butler and owned by Laika. Gravity Falls was created by Alex Hirsch and owned by Disney. Any other work mentioned or homage are property of their respective owners. This is a fan-made, nonprofit work that only seeks to entertain. Please support the original franchises.

Next Chapter

“it's a beautiful day outside. birds are singing, flowers are blooming...on days like this, kids like you…

Should be burning in hell.”

In the back of their mind—because that was all they really could do at the moment—Frisk wondered if sans rehearsed that speech. Either way, he said it the same way nearly every time. It was only when he tried to catch them off guard did he stop halfway, fire a Gaster-Blaster at them before they would expect it. Back before this happened, back when they could go to Grillby's and be friends, sans mentioned that he didn't actually have much memory of the timeloops. His knowledge came from notebooks and journals meticulously kept for someone so lazy. What memories he had came through nightmares.

In a way, Frisk envied him.

The battle started. Frisk felt their sins crawling along their back. The body moved forward, the soul dodging every attack as best it could, all without Frisk's thought or input. Neither had been Frisk's for a very long time.

sans had stopped his attack. He still dodged theirs, but didn't move otherwise. Sweat poured from his forehead, especially surprising since he didn't have skin cells.

“uh. hey. you really like swinging that thing around, huh?” The skeleton said. The attack stopped, if only for a second. “listen. friendship. it's really great, huh? let's quit fighting.”

sans was sparing them.

And Frisk so desperately wanted to accept it. Find a way to restart everything from the beginning and be especially good. Their body, however, wasn't listening.

After all that, you still think you're in control?

Something wet was moving on their face. Blood, Frisk reckoned. It couldn't have been their tears if their body wasn't theirs anymore.

sans dodged the slash of the knife.

“well. it was worth a shot, anyway.”

Their soul collided with another attack, and ripped in half.

Game Over

“if we're really friends, you won't come back.”

He was probably right.

* Reset

One is a Bird An Undertale/Coraline crossover fanfiction By the Poor Sap Advocate

Chapter 1

When Coraline woke up, she had no idea where she was.

It took her a minute to pull herself off of the cold earth and think back. She had been exploring the new apartments, she remembered that much. Her Dousing Staff had only led her to an old empty well…

She then realized just how dark it was. Her eyes ran to the only source of sunlight in the room: above. She had fallen, she realized. She had fallen down that well, and still survived. A pang of worry echoed in the back of her mind, but she couldn’t quite figure out why. This would be a much better place to explore! Perhaps down here she could find something actual of worth, like mice that actually sang and danced, or a talking cat, or…

A golden flower, looking at her with a very confused expression.

“Huh.” The flower said. “I honestly wasn’t expecting that.”

“Wasn’t expecting what?” Coraline asked, equal parts confused and offended.

The flower’s expression changed, as if it thought of something. “Oh, nothing. You’re new to the Underground, aren’t ya? Well, how about I teach you how things work around here?”

“How do you mean?”

“Well, let me show ya!”

The world flickered, like a candle. Coraline’s attention fell to the orange heart hovering in front of her.

“That’s your SOUL!” The flower said. “It’s the very culmination of your being. It can grow strong if you gain a lot of LV.”

“LV?” Coraline repeated.

“Love!” The flower said, as if he weren’t quite sure himself.

A group of white seeds hovered around the flower. “Monsters can share love with you with these…little white friendliness pellets! So go ahead! Catch as many as you can!”

“Wow. You’re just as dumb as they were.” The flower spoke again.

More pellets surrounded Coraline’s SOUL.

“DIE.”

The flower’s laughter stopped abruptly. Coraline looked up from her Soul, no longer surrounded in white. She looked up further, where she saw a figure.

“My, what a loathsome creature, torturing a poor, innocent youth…”

When Frisk woke up, they had no idea where they were.

It took them a minute to realize that their body was theirs, and they could get up whenever they wanted. When they did, they noticed the room wasn’t one they recognized. It wasn’t the Judgement Hall, like they had feared. It wasn’t the entrance to the Underground, like they had hoped. It was a bedroom, and it looked a lot like Toriel’s.

Remembering what happened to Toriel the last time they had met sent a wave of nausea over Frisk. They reached for a SAVE file.

Nothing happened.

Had they ever Saved in Toriel’s house? They couldn’t quite remember. Frisk had never stayed around in Toriel’s house long enough.

This wasn’t Toriel’s house. It looked a lot like it, but it wasn’t quite right. There was no basket full of shoes that had not been worn for ages. The toys lacked the layer of dust, like they had been used recently. Smells of butterscotch and cinnamon and fire magic didn’t hover in the air.

Something was wrong.

Frisk bolted from the room and rushed to where they knew Toriel would be. Her reading chair. She was always in her reading chair, no matter what timeline Frisk found themselves in.

They found Toriel in the kitchen.

It was Toriel, unmistakably. The same white fur, if a little brighter, the same purple tunic, if a bit nicer-kept, and the same motherly aura about her. Yet she was different. Her Soul, Frisk realized, was different. They didn’t quite know how, or even how they knew; the first time they had ever analyzed a Soul was when they first entered the Underground, and things haven’t changed much since then.

When she turned around from the stove, Frisk realized the biggest different. Two, black button eyes.

“Hello my child,” She spoke. “Did you sleep okay?”

Frisk fought to keep a straight face. Their hands shook as they signed, though that was often the case. They weren’t sure if they had signed that correctly, or even if it was spelled correctly. They had never thought of a nickname for Toriel that was easier to sign, and now they weren’t sure if they were allowed to.

The thing that was not Toriel’s face contorted, for just a second, into confusion. Frisk recognized the face easily. Few people they spoke to knew sign language. Even less would sign back to them. Toriel was the first, and one of the only.

“Oh. I’m the Other Toriel, my child.” She said. She didn’t sign back. Once Toriel figured it out, they would always sign as they spoke.

“Everyone has an other mother,” the Other Toriel continued. “I thought this form would be more…acceptable to you.”

That one was true, at least. Frisk may have never thought of Toriel as their mother (only once. They wouldn’t let themselves do it again.), but even Jerry was preferable to their real mother. If this other Toriel had thought that far ahead, then perhaps they were nice?

“Now then, why don’t you go wash up and find your other father, so we can have dinner?” the Other Toriel said as she worked on carving the pie. “It’s been a long time since you’ve had a proper meal, hasn’t it?”

Toriel was married? This Toriel was married? Frisk had never seen another person in the house…or really anyone Toriel interacted that wasn’t sans. But the idea of a proper meal, especially one that wasn’t made of dust and magic, was too pleasing for Frisk to turn down.

Frisk poked their head over the Other Toriel’s shoulder, just quick enough to see what the pie was made of.

Butterscotch-Cinnamon Pie

At least it isn’t snails. Does not heal, but is part of a balanced breakfast.

Even when they were at their worst, Toriel’s pie always healed. They wondered if the Other Toriel just didn’t get the recipe right

The figure in front of Coraline looked equal parts goat and equal parts human, standing on two feet yet covered in white fur. Despite her rather impressive size, the sharpness of her teeth, and the two horns on her head, she seemed to be doing everything in her power to appear non-threatening.

“Do not be afraid, child. I am Toriel, the caretaker of these Ruins.” She spoke.

Toriel bent down and offered Coraline a hand. Coraline took it, if only to pull herself back up.

“I come through these Ruins every day to see if anyone has fallen down.” Toriel continued. “You are the first human to come down here in a long time. Allow me to guide you through the catacombs.”

If she held onto Toriel’s hand a little longer, she didn’t realize. And Toriel didn’t let go until Coraline did.

Frisk found the Other Toriel’s husband outside the house. He was a large goat-like monster like she was, with bigger horns on his head, a wilder mane, and a rather well-kept beard. He even wore a similar tunic to Toriel’s, but for some reason Frisk couldn’t understand, it looked out of place on him. Like the Other Toriel, his eyes were big black buttons, carefully sewn in.

But what Frisk noticed first was the garden. Outside of Toriel’s house was rather dry, with only one old tree where the leaves fell off the second they could grow. Here, the ground was nearly covered in lush greens, with only a walkway of stone to interrupt it. Flowers blossomed from every corner of the yard; bright blues and deep reds. The tree was ripe with flowers of all sorts, yet there were still plenty of fall leaves around it that Frisk could jump into if they choose to. And there was sky, dark and covered in stars.

No golden flowers were in the garden, although the real Underground was full of them. Frisk wondered if that was intentional.

“Is someone there?” The other monster asked. “Just a moment. I have to finish watering these flowers…Here we are!”

He stood and turned to them. He towered over the child, but they weren’t intimidated. Rather, they were curious. He looked familiar, in a way that Frisk couldn’t describe. They had seen him before, but not in a Reset. And if it wasn’t a Reset, they had no idea where else he could have come from. The phrase “Mr. Dad Guy” entered their mind, but they had no idea why.

“Howdy!” Mr. Dad Guy said. “How may I help you, little one?”

Frisk signed to tell him breakfast was ready. A similar strain of confusion entered the other’s face as he interpreted the signs, but it passed just as quickly as it had with the Other Toriel.

“Let us not keep her waiting then, shall we?” said Mr. Dad Guy.

Mr. Dad Guy walked Frisk back through the house and to a dinner table that Frisk was sure was never in Toriel’s house. Toriel rarely had other people she could eat with, they realized. They had never eaten with Toriel. Pie had always been left in the room when they slept but that was not a meal and it was not eaten with her.

Maybe the Other Toriel realized this, and that’s why the table was piled with more food than Frisk thought one could make. A golden-roasted chicken, fried potatoes, tiny green peas. Spaghetti covered in a sauce of finely smashed tomatoes, greasy burgers and fries that smelled like Grillby’s, instant noodles, a three-tier cake with Welcome Home! written in icing cursive. Small cars moved along the table, depositing gravy for the meats and ketchup for the burgs. A butterscotch-cinnamon pie sitting at the center of it.

“Aren’t you going to eat, young one?” Mr. Dad Guy asked.

With all the Resets, Frisk had forgotten the last time they had a meal of human food. They had forgotten a long time ago what it was like when that food was freely given. They shoveled as much food as they could into their mouth.

“We have been waiting for you for a long time,” the Other Toriel said. “It wasn’t the same without you. But we knew you would come home one day. Perhaps tomorrow you can help your father in the garden. Or I can show you my favorite bug-hunting spot. I can even prepare a curriculum for your education.”

In the end, Toriel didn’t guide Coraline through the entirety of the Ruins. She left her someplace safe, where she could wait while she ran errands. Coraline, however, decided to explore herself. She met Vegetoids and Migosps and a whole variety of creatures she could have never thought of. She bought donuts from a bake sale run by spiders. She would talk to Froggits and Moldsmals, and though they rarely moved beyond hip-wiggling and ribbiting, they were quite meaningful.

She explored the Ruins until she came across a tree where leaves dried off as soon as they grew, and behind that, a house. Seeing such a cute, tidy house in the middle of the Ruins filled Coraline with something, but she wasn’t sure quite was.

She didn’t think of getting closer until she saw Toriel exit, a bag of groceries in her paws.

“My child!” said Toriel. “Did you walk all the way here?”

“It wasn’t too bad,” said Coraline. “I had to do battle with a ghost, but it was okay because I complimented their hat and they let me go.”

The best part of saying that was that Coraline was not making any of that up. The second best part was, though she looked annoyed for just a second at the prospect of anyone fighting Coraline, Toriel laughed and smiled and believed her. Her mother never did any of that no matter what kind of story Coraline told. She usually just shrugged her off and told her to do chores.

It was the first time in her time in the Underground that Coraline thought of her mother.

Toriel lead Coraline through the house. She showed her a room she could stay the night in. They had butterscotch cinnamon pie for dinner. Coraline read through old books of monster history until she realized all textbooks were rather dry.

But then Coraline had to think realistically. She had to get back to the Pink Palace.

“Thank you for everything, Miss Toriel, but I really need to get back home,” Coraline said. “How do I leave the Ruins?”

Toriel grew quiet. With her paws shaking, she removed her reading glasses and rose from her chair.

“I’m afraid there is something I must do, little one. Please wait here.”

She left, and then Coraline grew nervous. She followed Toriel, down the stairs of the house and into a dark corridor that didn’t look at all like the tidy home. When she found Toriel, it was in front of a large door.

“You truly wish to return home, do you not?” Toriel asked. “Ahead of us is the exit to the Ruins. And I am going to destroy it. No one will be able to leave again. Now run upstairs.”

“I have to get home! To my real mom and dad!” said Coraline.

“You are just like the others. You come. You leave. You’ll die. He…ASGORE…will find you. I am only doing this to protect you.”

“I can defend myself. I want to get home.”

“Then prove it. Prove you’re strong enough to survive.”

A FIGHT broke out. Toriel blocks the way.

Coraline grew used to the feeling of her Soul leaving her body. However, she was not used to the feeling of monster bullets hurdling towards her. It did not help that Toriel’s bullets were flames, raging with heat as they passed and singing her jacket and Soul as they hit.

Yet Coraline stayed determined. She was perhaps not the best at dodging, but the FIGHTS with the other monsters of the Ruins had prepared her well. It was no different than her father moving around the hornets. She ran through the flames, letting her jacket take what she couldn’t allow her Soul to hit.

“Why are you fighting me?” Coraline asked. “I thought you wanted me to stay safe!”

“I do,” said Toriel. “This is what’s best for you!”

“You think trying to kill me is what’s best for me? How is that different than those monsters you want to protect me from! How is that different than Asgore!”

The flames returned, tenfold. Coraline couldn’t dodge them all.

As she pulled herself off the floor, she looked through Toriel. She looked shocked at her own power, eyes wide and paw covering her mouth.

“Do not compare me to him,” said Toriel. “Just fight already.”

Coraline stood up, but did not move.

“I know you want to go home…but you must understand. I cannot lose another.”

Toriel went down to the entrance of the Underground every day. How many children, Coraline realized, has she seen fall down? How many of them could she not save? How long was it before the last one left?

“Stop looking at me like that,” Toriel said.

She couldn’t.

“Pathetic, is it not? I cannot save even a single child.”

“Their deaths aren’t your fault,” said Coraline. “And keeping me here won’t solve anything.”

“I understand. The Ruins are very small, once you get used to them,” said Toriel. “My expectations, my loneliness, my fear…for you, I shall put them aside.”

The FIGHT ended.

“If you truly wish to leave the Ruins, I will not stop you,” Toriel continued. “But please, do not come back. I hope you understand.”

Coraline had no idea what to say about any of this. About the mother in mourning, about respecting someone who attacked her, about having to travel through the world of monsters alone. So she settled for “I did mean it. Thank you for everything you’ve done.” and walked through the door.

Author’s Note: So there are about 3 games that I trust any let’s player to play well, and I watch a lot of let’s players. Until Dawn, Pony Island…and Undertale. I’ve watched a lot of Undertale playthoughs. I really enjoy this game, or at least most of it. I wanted to write an Undertale crossover fic, and then I realized I wanted to write a lot of them. And then I realized that any Undertale crossover is inherently the same, or at least the way I wanted to write it, so I decided to make all of them into one mega-fic.

This is a bit of an unusual experience for me, considering that at the time of this posting, I am not finished with the complete fic yet. I do not do this, usually. Everything you see has been ordered, signed in triplicate, sent in, sent back, queried, lost, found, subjected to public enquiry, lost again, and finally buried in soft peat for three months and recycled as firelighters. But I decided that I wanted to post more. Hopefully this pays out and I won’t have to skip a few weeks.

So welcome to Into the Unknown.

#fic #Into the Unknown #Undertale #Coraline #Frisk #Coraline Jones #Toriel #sans #featured

1 note · View note