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scoobydoodean · 1 month

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the way bronlies are so obsessed that they’ve just become sam in the way they don’t like/won’t allow dean to have other friends 😭

it’s crazy to me, especially for a question whose different answers are both true to an extent bc your definition of “knowing somebody” is totally subjective!

lol that said, i am curious, soo… who do you think knows dean best, sam or cas? somebody else? do you think it changes over the seasons?

One of my friends was just saying that about bronlies and Sam sjhbfhsdhjf. Truly tho they're more insufferable than Sam's ever been. Bronlies are every spoiled child antagonist in every children's book. The Veruca Salt's of fandom. Miserable little cry baby brats screaming throwing tantrums trying to hit everyone with their baby rattlers... over Supernatural (2005) POLLS.

Their indignantion at that poll is pretty hilarious, because Sam doesn't start out the series actually knowing who Dean is at all. He thinks he knows who Dean is, but he doesn't, and this is illustrated to us over a dozen times in season 1. I do think Sam grows to understand who Dean is better over time, but he still sucks at understanding Dean for the vast majority of the series, because in many ways, he doesn't actually care to stop and think and study who Dean is and ask himself whether he actually knows him. He prefers an image he's made up in his head of who Dean is instead—an image that comforts him or bolsters his own self-image in some way. Dean is smart when Sam wants him to be smart and stupid when Sam needs to feel smarter (1.10, 1.16, 4.12, 8.14). Dean is strong when Sam wants him to be strong and weak when Sam needs to feel like the strongest person around (4.10, 4.11, 4.14, 4.16, 4.20, 4.21). Dean isn't opening up enough (2.02, 2.03, 2.04), then Dean is too emotional and soft and needs to get over it (2.10, 2.11, 2.14, 4.14, 4.16). Dean is a protector and nurturer who is failing to nurture and/or protect Sam adequately (3.09, 4.04, 8.23), then Dean is smothering (5.07, 8.20).

Basically, because Sam spends so much time trying to force Dean to fit into the shape he wants Dean to fit into, instead of actually trying to understand who Dean is, he often (unknowingly in some cases) completely lacks insight into who Dean actually is, and I'd say while he gets better at recognizing this, and better at understanding who Dean really is over time, surrounding certain subjects (especially things like grief), this refusal to see the actual real Dean continues through the entire run of the show (ex: 13.04).

I guess the question is then... is Cas actually better at understanding Dean than Sam is? And for me? Honestly I think it's a wash. I don't actually think either of them is Mr Amazing Perfect Dean Understander to be quite honest with you. I mean—practically Dean and Cas's entire schtick is perpetual misunderstandings bolstered by their own insecurities? They understand the important parts like that they each have good intentions and are good hearted, but I don't think Cas ever really understood how their repeated cycle of conflict made Dean feel. I don't think he ever understood how deeply entwined Dean's well-being became with his own, to the point that Dean was Not Fucking Okay when Cas was dead. I think Cas had a leg up in getting genuine insights into Dean's feelings straight from Dean for a long time because of the childhood dynamics and previous events that have made using Sam as a confidant uncomfortable and/or unsafe for Dean (2.03, 2.11, 4.14, 4.21, 5.01, 5.02, 5.03). I think Cas also understands Dean’s feelings more than he lets on and often acts on his perceptions of Dean's feelings without communicating those perecptions to anyone (and sometimes he's right... but sometimes he's also very VERY wrong).

We get a sort of back and forth with Sam and Cas understanding or not understanding different aspects of Dean's feelings or behavior. Think about "Nihilism" for example, when Sam and Cas walk through the darkness of Dean's mind, and Cas is shocked by the amount of trauma in Dean's mind and Sam just says, "Well. Yeah." But then compare that with 10.03 "Soul Survivor" where Cas was able to explain to Sam why demon Dean didn't want to be cured no matter how much blood they gave him. Sam didn't understand, but Cas understood Dean's perspective immediately (and that entire episode was a scathing commentary on Sam's lack of insight into Dean tbqh).

All of that said, I think I did vote in that poll and I picked Cas, and I would do it again. :) In fact, I will vote against Sam in any moment of uncertainty in any poll I see going forward, because bronlies are pathetic cry baby brats victimizing themselves 24/7 over Tumblr polls and can get fucked.

#maybe i’ll start tracking this going forward hdhdhdhdhdh #mail

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buffster · 5 years

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The Yoko Factor (BTVS 4.20)

This is part of my ongoing Buffyverse Project, where I write notes/meta for every episode in an attempt to better understand the characters and themes of the shows. You can find the BTVS list here and the ATS list here. Gifs are not mine.

All I remembered about the Scooby fight was that it happened. I had forgotten how, and I actually do think it makes more sense now. It wasn’t about their friendship, it was about attacking each of their insecurities and making them feel that everyone else in the group had noticed them too. This was possible because the friendship has been so fractured that no one feels supported or even seen. They have no reason not to think they’re being judged.

Unfortunately, the resolution to all this never really comes around. There is a ton of good stuff here--Buffy’s increased reliance on herself, Willow’s moving away from her computer skills and into witchcraft as a solution to everything, Xander not feeling respected and seeing Anya as an extension of that, Giles losing his sense of leadership and importance--but we never really get an acknowledgement of any of that until much later. And the real problem that Spike landed on--that the Scoobies aren’t paying a bit of attention to one another--gets a quick patch over but continues to be a problem. Yes, Buffy isn’t judging Willow, but is that a good thing or just a symptom of her ignoring her entirely?

Spike is the one who comes up with this plan to incite drama, which I do feel makes sense for his character. He’s insightful and incredibly good at stuff like this. It’s also fun to see his perspective on Buffy and how fascinated/afraid of her he is. He keeps insisting to Adam that he needs to consider her a bigger threat. You can sense the admiration beneath the irritation.

Adam: You feel smothered. Trapped like an animal, pure in its ferocity, unable to actualize the urges within… Clinging to one truth like a flame struggling to burn within an enclosed glass… That a beast this powerful cannot be contained. Inevitably it will break free and savage the land again… I will make you whole again. Make you savage.

This is the episode in which Forrest is killed. He claims his problem with Buffy is that Riley is willing to commit treason over her and turn against their “family”. I would have loved to see some more backstory on Forrest: either have him be an orphan who found his family through Riley and now he feels abandoned or have him have a romantic interest in him. Then you could even have had him join Adam willingly as a way to get his family back.

Angel’s return also doesn’t fit into the story well. I covered over in Sanctuary why his coming here made no sense, and his drama with Riley was nothing but fan-baiting. It also felt like a bit of a step back for Angel’s character; he always seems less mature over on Buffy. On Angel he seems sad but resigned to the fact that he can’t have Buffy and she comes off as wanting more than he can give. But here he seems like a petty, jealous ex. I don’t see a scenario where he would like Riley, but beating him up, refusing to explain he’s not evil, and insinuating he might have slept with Buffy is ridiculous. The end scene where he says “I don’t like him” in a tone of resigned sadness makes more sense than everything before it.

Buffy: Look, I… you weren't entirely wrong, what you said in L.A. We don't live in each other's worlds anymore. I can't just barge in on yours and make judgments.

Angel: I'm still sorry.

Buffy: Thank you.

Xander is the one who gives Riley the information on what turned Angel evil. Why does he have this habit of venting inappropriately when it comes to Buffy’s boyfriends (here, and when he tells Dawn Spike tried to rape Buffy)? In the script Xander decides to tell Riley even though it’s clear Buffy doesn’t want him to know, but in the episode it plays like Xander accidentally spilled the beans.

As far as Buffy’s decision on this, I get it. It’s a bit easier for Willow, for example, to be totally honest with Tara about her past with Oz. She loved him, the wolf thing became a problem, he left. Angel will always hold power over Buffy and she will always have feelings for him, and basically the only reason they’re not together is because they can’t be. How do you tell a boyfriend that if your ex suddenly became human you’d be tempted to run right back into his arms? It’s unresolved and messy.

Riley: I went a little nuts, you know? I mean, on the one hand, I should believe in us. But, on the other, sometimes things just happen between ex's and then I saw he was bad

Buffy: He wasn't bad.

Riley: Seriously? That's a "good" day? Well there you go. Even when he's good he's all Mr. Billowy Coat King of Pain and girls really-

After their talk they say I love you to each other and then Buffy has to tell him about Forrest. He abruptly leaves, and the cliff-hanger is that he goes to Adam.

Let’s get in to the Scooby drama. It’s clear Buffy, Willow, Xander, and Giles haven’t been paying much attention to each other lately, but you know who has been paying attention? Spike.

Spike: Think you're neglecting the past tense there, Rupert. Besides, she barely listened when you were in charge. I've seen the way she treats you.

We’ve seen a few hints that Giles is insecure about losing his job as librarian and, more importantly, Watcher. He was fired way back in season three, but when Buffy belonged to the Council she continued to look to him for guidance and ignored the replacements. When she decided to drop the Council and stop taking orders she also stopped looking to him. She’s the leader now.

Xander: This is so like them lately. It's all about them and the college life. You know what college is? It's high school without the actual going to class. Well, high school was sort of like that too but the point is, I'm the one working hard to earn a living and it's a huge joke to them.

Anya: They look down on you.

Xander: And they hate you…

Anya: But they don't look down on me.

Xander is struggling to find his footing post-high school, which we actually have seen hints of throughout. The ironic part is Buffy and Willow will be in the same place after college, but by then Xander is finding a place in construction and doing a bit better. Spike suggests they mentioned him going to the military, which was a strange choice. It would be fairly easy for them to shut down having ever said that if it came up. Spike only gets away with it because the fight is so chaotic.

Willow: I am a whiz!

Tara: She is a whiz.

Willow’s insecurity is about her new relationship with Tara and her friend’s feelings about it. Spike slips up here; he says Xander said she was being trendy but Xander doesn’t even know about the relationship at this point. Spike points out something interesting here--Willow isn’t as focused on her computer skills lately. But that’s not something she or anyone else will be concerned about for awhile.

Spike doesn’t say anything to Buffy, which makes sense because she’s sort of the center of this whole universe. Buffy has a lot of concerns, but her friends not liking or needing her isn’t one of them. The interesting thing about all this drama is that none of the friends care a bit about what the others are going through; they’re too focused on their own drama. Buffy and Willow don’t think about Xander’s employment issues, Buffy and Xander don’t think about Willow’s sexual preferences or her obsession with wicca, and Buffy, Xander, and Willow don’t think about Giles’ lack of employment in any real way.

Tensions escalate when they all convene at Giles’ house because everyone is overly sensitive (Buffy is totally lost).

Giles: You never train with me anymore. Adam's gonna kick your ass.

Buffy: Giles?!

Giles: Sorry! Didn't mean to be so honest. Terribly sorry.

After seeing Forrest die, Buffy isn’t eager for anyone to come along with her. And that just further taps into their feelings of inadequacy.

Xander: And if I did join the army I'd be great. You know why? Because maybe they'd give me a job that couldn't be done by any well-trained Border Collie.

Willow: Sure, you'd be wonderful in the army -- you think the umbilical cord between you and Anya would stretch that far?

Xander: I knew it. I knew you hated her.

Willow: Hey, I'm not the one being judgmental, here. I'll leave that territory to you and Buffy.

Buffy: Judgmental? If I was any more open minded about the choices you two make my whole brain would fall out.

Xander: Oh. And superior. Don't forget that. Just because you're better than us doesn't mean you can be all superior.

Buffy: Guys, stop this. What happened to you today?

Willow: It's not today. Buffy, everything's been wrong for a while. Don't you see that?

Buffy: Willow, what do you mean things have been wrong? Things don't have to be wrong, do they?

A major problem with the Scooby friendship is that Buffy is the leader--and she is both too distracted and too inclined to ignore emotional issues to lead effectively. Buffy is an avoidance type and so the entire group avoids talking or working through their feelings with each other. This is something Giles noticed in Once More With Feeling but it never gets fixed. The group is missing someone like Faith or Spike...someone who would be more willing to call out issues and bring them out in the open. Buffy hates that, but sometimes it’s necessary. Just look what happened to everyone in season six...

Character Notes:

The Initiative: They want Riley back. They (correctly) realize they can’t harm Buffy if they ever want to bring him back into the fold. When the relationship between them ends they do eventually lure him back, so good call there.

Spike: We learn he can’t even point a useless gun with the chip in his head. It appears to be activated by intent to harm rather than ability, which makes sense. He lists his past fun night outs as deflowering a virgin princess, killing a minister mid-sermon, and seeing the Sex Pistols in ‘76.

Adam: His favorite Beatles song is ‘Helter Skelter’.

#theyokofactor #doug petrie #buffy summers #willow rosenberg #xander harris #rupert giles #spike #anya jenkins #angel #buffy/angel #riley finn #buffy/riley #xander/anya #tara maclay #willow/tara #forrest gates #adam #buffy/spike

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thesinglesjukebox · 7 years

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DEPECHE MODE - WHERE'S THE REVOLUTION [4.20] More like MEHvolution amirite...

Thomas Inskeep: Not here. [3]

Alfred Soto: "Where's the revolution/C'mon, people, you're lettin' me down" made sense in July 2016 when I realized the Dems had nominated Hillary Rodham Clinton and dispassion was the craze. In February 2017 I aim the lines at Depeche Mode Inc, reprocessing their idea of R&B referents from 1993's Songs of Faith and Devotion and more distortion this side of an AM frequency. I prefer Dave Gahan to lecture me on pleasures, little treasures, masters and servants, and the policy of truth; otherwise he sounds like a wino in a Starbucks line. [5]

Will Adams: The grinding electronics and gangly meter feel like classic Depeche, but the lyrics are stuffy. It's not as if this kind of shallowly political song hasn't existed for a while -- Muse's "Uprising" immediately sprang to my mind for its similar inability to provoke, and the invocation of an unnamed "they" is everywhere -- but it's easy to diagnose as another entry in a recent trend of vague protest music that thinks it's adequate to simply raise questions and shrug its shoulders. [4]

Katherine St Asaph: Morose death-bloops, snide vocals, enough fascist imagery in the video to appeal to the punchables: a Depeche Mode song. Two out of three of these are reliably good things. The Bush-era message (of all the things that got us here, religion isn't one) and botched 6/8 (note the second "where's the revolution") are not. [4]

David Sheffieck: The lyric's pointed but open to interpretation - is it earnest or sarcastic, angry or detached? Does it say anything at all? But the music speaks apocalypse as only Depeche Mode can: grinding and flickering, punishingly throbbing, it's distinctly their own and instantly recognizable, and somehow still more immediate and vital than artists half their age. [7]

Jessica Doyle: I was happy to sit and let those woozy vocals wash over me until I realized they were in the service of lazy lecturing. One point, though, for that "train is comin'" bit's sluggish echo of Dal*Shabet's dorawa dorawa dorawa, and one more because I'm pretty sure Dave Gahan is cosplaying Oswald Mosley in the video. [4]

Claire Biddles: I'm too predisposed to Depeche Mode's default sonics to fully dislike this but man, it's a trying listen -- the whole thing drags, and its on-the-nose lyrics are clunky enough to make me wince. Depeche Mode are better and more nuanced when they're reflecting on the internal rather than the external: The wake-up-sheeple tone of "Where's the Revolution" reminds me of when Muse ~do politics~; preaching a generic call-to-arms to the converted. [3]

Maxwell Cavaseno: Contrary to popular belief, I don't think Martin Gore had a lot of great many subversive lyrics in him. There was certainly a wink-wink/nudge-nudge obsession with darker themes, not to mention his occasional political tipping of the hat, but if anything the Depeche Mode discography is pretty much run-of-the-mill in ideas for fake deep songwriting all throughout pop if you're into leather jackets. Production-wise, Depeche Mode continue as they do, with lame guitars thrown in for no reason, Gahan sounding maudlin, and a lot of decent electronic blips that would've complimented a record under the "Electronica" category back in '02. But lyrically Gore proves that honestly, he shouldn't try to speak on the world, because he's never had anything of real insight to say there. [3]

Ramzi Awn: "Where's the Revolution" fails to offend and succeeds at staying its course. Boasting a perfectly serviceable melody that Grace Slick could have done better, Depeche Mode dapples this near-hit with sparks of life. [5]

Lilly Gray: Really gonna light a fire under your quiet cousin. [4]

[Read and comment on The Singles Jukebox ]

#Depeche Mode #Where's The Revolution

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