#lwj: the fact that you don’t just do that automatically is yet another reason you are TRASH actually he’s very sad about that

[winepresswrath]

I used to be into adversarial JC/lwj but I've seen the light and now I'm really into them really liking each other. Idk how this happened I have nothing to back it up. Realistically it can only exist in aus and my dreams. But I think about them mutually judging people, or JC doing the needed yelling for both of them when LWJ doesn't want to talk, or lwj helping stop wwx from doing stupid shit while also thinking he's great and JC silently approving ben and IDK HOW IT WORKS BUT I LIKE IT.

I’m still into their mutual war of petty antagonism (and very much of the opinion that the death toll makes it pettier) but every time I read an AU where the author has put work into highlighting the reasons they might actually work as friends I surprise myself by how charmed and delighted I am. They are both extremely petty and skilled in the arts of passive aggressive sneering. They do both love Wei Wuxian while thinking he should set himself on fire less often. They’re bad at expressing themselves in different ways, and I think that makes it easy for them to fall into a cycle of misunderstanding that’s particularly hard for them to extract themselves from because Lan Wangji is a champion grudge holder and Jiang Cheng’s instinctive emotional response to rejection is to reject the other person back harder, but I think in the happy universe they’ve got a shot of forming an alliance of eye rolls and disgusted barely perceptible lip pursing. Even in canon, they’re going to live until they’re what, 300 or so, barring any other civil wars or lucky ghosts? It’s not that I doubt their ability to be mad at each other the whole time if they really feel like it but I can also see them making accidental eyecontact over dinner one day and being mutually surprised to realize they don’t actually hate each other.

#lan wangji #jiang cheng #seriously any time a third party dies and they make it about wei wuxian #that’s very human and understandable and sympathetic to me but also petty as shit #jc: how do you reconcile being a good an righteous person with still loving him after he killed members of your clan #lwj: the fact that you don’t just do that automatically is yet another reason you are TRASH actually he’s very sad about that #and needs emotional support #the ghosts of redshirts past: on the one hand in life we too had people we loved best. on the other we’re gonna haunt the shit out of all #three of you self absorbed motherfuckers #but yeah i think it’s that the thing between them in canon is wei wuxian #lan wangji is perfectly capable of understanding that family can be complicated and fucked up without anyone being a monster #when the family in question is his #and jiang cheng was willing to play nicely enough with jin zixuan of all people #and zixuan was willing to play nice back #so if lwj totally drops the ball he’s losing at brother in lawing to zixuan #unacceptable

[fytheuntamed]

Do you have any thoughts on why the novel might be so popular among lgbt people despite (sometimes quite obviously) being written by a straight women for straight women. I think this is quite evident in for example the sex scenes

Why do I think the novel is so popular amongst LGBTQ+ people despite being written by a straight woman for straight women? Simple! It’s a good story and the characters are complex and intriguing. No piece of media is ever perfect, so it simply comes down to whether an individual feels the positive aspects of the media outweigh the negative aspects of the media. Are there problematic aspects within the novel? Of course! But that doesn’t mean the novel as a whole should be disregarded. You can consume media while still being critical of it, just like you can like a character while acknowledging that they’re not a good person. LGBTQ+ people, like everyone else, value a good story and interesting characters, so even if there are aspects of the story that we dislike, we may still stick around if we think it’s worth it! Also, I think there’s a shortage of stories like “Mo Dao Zu Shi” where you have LGBTQ+ characters whose sexuality isn’t the focus of the story. Yes, Wangxian are soulmates and very much in love, but that isn’t the whole point. You have a delightful bundle of politics, magic, familial ties, concepts of right and wrong, mystery, etc etc that also features a beautiful love story between two men. I guess my point is, LGBTQ+ people are flawed just like everyone else and sometimes we consume content even if we don’t agree with every part of it.

I’ve avoided getting involved in any discourse surrounding the various versions of MDZS because I wanted to keep this blog drama free, however I would like to take this chance to offer my own thoughts on the “problematic” aspects of the novel. Before I get into it, I just want to make three things clear: 1) I’m white, 2) I’m not mlm, I’m a lesbian, and 3) I’ve only read the second half of the novel and honestly I can’t remember too much of the specifics. The relevance of my opinion on the matter, therefore, is limited and my words should be read with this fact in mind. I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts and feelings on this matter, so do feel free to either leave a comment or reblog and add your two-cents. All I ask is that we keep it respectful so this can continue to be an enjoyable space for all fans.

I’ve been going through the untamed’s tumblr tag daily since the start of this blog in August 2019, so I’ve seen the whole spectrum of opinions on this matter. Some people feel very strongly that some of the ways in which MXTX writes particular aspects of the novel are “problematic,” some people are indifferent, and others feel that criticism of MXTX’s writing comes from a lack of knowledge of Chinese culture (particularly LGBTQ+ Chinese culture). (I remember seeing a post touching upon this last matter, but I didn’t save it, so unfortunately I can’t link it.)

I think the two most common criticisms of the novel that I have come across pertain to matters of consent and the imposing of heteronormative concepts onto Wangxian. Again, I want to stress that I haven’t read the novel in its entirety and my memory of it is foggy. Talking about consent first, some felt the scene in the novel where LWJ kisses an unexpecting blindfolded WWX was a big no no, while others thought it was a very sweet, romantic scene. (To give context for those who have only seen the drama, this scene would have been placed in episode 25 had they included it). For this matter, I’m of the belief that consent is a must. Regardless of whether WWX enjoyed the kiss, the fact stands that no one is entitled to another’s body, and this is why consent is, in my eyes, non-negotiable. For those who have no problem with this scene, I do think it is worth considering how you would feel about this scene had it involved, say, Jin Zixuan kissing a blindfolded Jiang Yanli. If that had been the case, I do think the majority of readers would have found the scene in poor taste (I could be wrong, though!). I will say that the trope of the forceful kiss is extremely common and can be found in every genre; it’s definitely not restricted to LGBTQ+ couples. For the aforementioned reason, I don’t like the forceful kiss scenario irregardless of the genders of the people involved. I do think writing such scenes for LGBTQ+ couples in particular can perpetuate harmful stereotypes, particularly that LGBTQ+ people have no respect for personal boundaries and can’t control their physical desires. I think the situation is doubly bad if the person who is being kissed is “not yet gay,” because again, it perpetuates the idea of the big bad gay person and the innocent “straight” person who is at the whims of said big bad gay.

Moving on to WWX and LWJ’s sex life, I have seen multiple people in the tag mentioning WWX having a “rape kink” and their discomfort with this fact. Logically, I understand that we are all allowed, as human beings with different tastes and preferences, to enjoy the things that bring us pleasure (excluding certain obvious things). That being said, I do not personally enjoy rape fantasies in my media and try to stay far away from it. As I mentioned, we are all welcome to our own tastes and preferences, but I do think it is important that we realize that we are all also the product of our environments. Things, including kinks, do not exist in vacuums, and therefore they must arise as a result of some mixture of external and internal forces. Does MXTX giving WWX a rape kink automatically make her demon spawn? Not really. Does MXTX giving WWX a rape kink add anything to his character or the story? Also not really. All this being said, I do think LGBTQ+ media is oversaturated with consent issues and I’d personally like to see this come to an end, because once again, it perpetuates harmful stereotypes that do have a real impact on LGBTQ+ individuals.

As for the imposing of heteronormative concepts onto Wangxian, I think the biggest complaint I’ve seen is about WWX being referred to as the “mom” or the “wife” within the Wangxian couple. I would like to state here that this may be a situation in which cultural differences come into play. Additionally, because the novel is not originally written in English, it may be a case of telephone in which the true meaning becomes distorted as it is translated from one language to another and then to another and so on and so forth. Therefore, I am going to proceed with my thoughts on the matter in a more generalized way. For me, this is a big pet peeve of mine, to the point where I will not reblog content that refers to any of the male characters as “mom” or “wife.” My reasoning is simple: WWX is a man, so he would be someone’s “dad” or “husband,” not their “mom” or “wife.” I know from first-hand experience that non-LGBTQ+ people will often try to place a gay couple within a heterosexual context to make it easier for them to process how two women or two men could be together. I understand the reasoning behind this way of thinking, but that does not mean this way of thinking should be encouraged. It’s bad enough that non-LGBTQ+ couples are ensnared in an endless maze of gendered ways of being and thinking - let’s not force that on LGBTQ+ couples as well. My other issue is that the words “mom” and “wife” not only have gendered connotations, but they have implicit sexual connotations as well. In this context, “mom” and “wife” are just another way of saying “bottom.” Just think about it; nobody’s out there calling LWJ “mom” or “wife.” The whole idea of “top” and “bottom” in gay media is so……..it’s almost like an obsession? And for those of you who may be thinking it’s not that deep and has no bearing on real life….I really wish that were true. Go look at the comments section of any gay couple’s youtube video and you will invariably find someone asking who is the top and who is the bottom. That’s invasive as fuck, y’all, and you don’t see that shit on straight couple’s videos (again, because the assumption is that women are always in the submissive, therefore there’s no need to ask because it’s assumed the answer will always be that the woman “bottoms” and the man “tops”). All this being said, I can only speak about this matter from my viewpoint as a lesbian. If one day I were to get married, I wouldn’t want people referring to my wife as my “husband,” because the whole point is that we’re both the wife! I know there isn’t one rule/mindset that applies to all gay people, so I would love to hear others’ feelings on this matter.

Finally, I would also like to briefly touch upon Mo Xuanyu, who we don’t really get to see in the drama. I don’t know whether LWJ or WWX ever explicitly state their sexualities or which gender(s) they’re attracted to, but I’m pretty sure Mo Xuanyu is explicitly stated to be strictly into men (please correct me if I’m wrong!). I do wonder what MXTX’s intentions were (if there were any) when she decided to make Mo Xuanyu gay, because what I’ve grasped of his characterization is that he is written similarly to other gay male characters that give the impression they were created by checking off a list of every popular stereotype about gay men. I guess I’m just curious, as someone who knows very little about Mo Xuanyu, how others felt about his character in terms of complexity and stereotypes.

If you took the time to read all this, thank you! Let me know your thoughts~

#the untamed #mo dao zu shi #cql #mo xiang tong xiu #mxtx #long post #sorry this took me a while to respond to anon #i was away from home and also i knew it would end up being long so i wanted to have the time to properly answer you #ask #anon #Anonymous

[satonthelotuspier]

Turnabout Is Fair Play - Part 2

Part two of my JC & LXC have to babysit young WWX and LWJ crack story. Part 1 is here if you prefer to read on tumblr but it’s also uploaded to AO3 here too if that’s your preferred medium.

Part 3 and Part 4 are now available.

Jiang Cheng was woken up with a slap to the face.

He pushed himself half-up with one hand, uttering his usual “What the fuck-” the other hand automatically reaching for Sandu.

“Lan Zhan” Wei Wuxian’s scolding voice brought Jiang Cheng back to reality and he rose fully to his knees and scrubbed his face with both hands to hide the scowling expression of the second young lord of Lan from his affronted eyes.

“We’re hungry” Lan Wangji announced the reason for his ignominious awakening.

Jiang Cheng kept his eyes closed and counted to ten. It didn’t work.

He caught hold of the front of Lan Wangji’s sleeping robe, and tugged him in a little, “I’m getting tired of your attitude Lan Wangji-” he was brought to a stop when said Lan Wangji placed his little hand over Jiang Cheng’s, meeting his look defiantly.

“Wei Ying is hungry” he said firmly, as if that was explanation enough.

The young Hanguang-jun was as fearless as the adult Hanguang-jun, even in the face of a bad tempered brother-in-law. Still, it was hardly a surprise, there was nothing Hanguang-jun hadn’t dared for his Wei Ying.

Jiang Cheng didn’t want to deal with this.

He wondered what would happen if he just pulled the blankets back over his head and pretended the world didn’t exist.

Probably another slap in the face.

He could always smother himself with his own pillow…

Attractive as that option seemed at the moment Jiang Cheng dragged himself out of the bed.

“Wash up and get dressed” he ordered the children, and Wei Wuxian pulled Lan Wangji away and through the morning routine.

Once they were all fully dressed Jiang Cheng paused to watch when both boys began giggling uncontrollably.

“Lan Zhan, it won’t stay tied” Wei Wuxian informed him through pealing laughter as whatever he’d tried to do to the other’s hair collapsed. And Lan Wangji evidently found it just as entertaining.

Jiang Cheng doubted the adult Lan Wangji had ever uttered such a sound before in his life.

“Come here” he ordered them, sitting on the edge of the bed and taking out a comb.

Wei Wuxian nudged a mistrustful Lan Wangji over to stand between Jiang Cheng’s knees.

Jiang Cheng took the hair ribbon and asked Wei Wuxian, “How shall we do his hair?”

“Ponytail” Wei Wuxian said decisively, demonstrating with handful’s of Lan Wangji’s hair. The latter just stood patiently while Wei Wuxian tugged him around by the scalp.

“Alright, alright, don’t be so rough, let me work” Jiang Cheng began to run the comb through the hair Wei Wuxian had messed up in his attempts to style, and he was taken back to similar times with Jin Ling when the other had been young and in need of help from his uncle. Back when he had been small and quiet and obedient, and not the mouthy, argumentative little jerk he was now.

Contrary to how he’d behaved so far in his new body, Lan Wangji was quiet and obediently still.

Apparently he liked having his hair combed.

Jiang Cheng finished tying his hair up in the high ponytail Wei Wuxian had demanded, and the boys swapped places.

“How shall we do A-Xian’s hair?” it was only fair to ask Lan Wangji. And he daren’t consider too deeply what inside him had caused him to slip into using A-Xian.

There was a flash of the adult Lan Wangji in the child’s face briefly as he considered the question with complete seriousness. He smiled then, and reached out to take the front section of hair on either side of Wei Wuxian’s face in one hand each, declaring, “Braids. And then all up”

“Alright, braids and all up. Go put on your forehead ribbon before we go to your brother” Lan Wangji nodded and went to collect the forehead ribbon he’d removed the previous evening while Jiang Cheng finished braiding Wei Wuxian’s bangs, and pulled it all up into a topknot.

“All finished” he turned Wei Wuxian around by his small shoulders to check, and nodded, “Very good” he was distracted by the smile Wei Wuxian beamed up at him, before the boy raised his arms to be picked up.

Uncle Jiang Cheng was subliminally trained by Jin Ling to answer such a cue so he lifted him up, and Wei Wuxian threw his arms around Jiang Cheng’s neck and hugged.

The world stopped. For such a long moment it felt like someone had reached into Jiang Cheng’s chest and closed their fist around his heart. He couldn’t breathe, and he couldn’t cope with these feelings.

He blinked madly at the tears that threatened as he cradled Wei Wuxian’s head against his shoulder softly. How often had he wished the relationship with his adopted brother could revert to the closeness they’d shared before everything had gone wrong for them? They’d found some tentative ground for truce in the years that had passed since the events of Yunping City, but they each had different lives. Wei Wuxian had married into the Gusu Lan sect, Jiang Cheng had his own Yunmeng Jiang sect to safeguard and meetings between the two were still rare, and stilted.

Jiang Cheng allowed himself a few more minutes, his nose buried in Wei Wuxian’s hair, his clean scent a comfort, a boyhood spent together the reason for Jiang Cheng’s familiarity with it.

But then he had to let Wei Wuxian go, not least because Lan Wangji was getting impatient, and Jiang Cheng didn’t have the nerves left to get on.

“Alright. Lets go” he picked up Sandu and herded them towards the door, Lan Wangji put on best behaviour because Wei Wuxian took hold of his hand.

***

They found Lan Xichen meditating, his usual ethereal calmness firmly in place.

No doubt helped by not having to put up with his demon brother for the night, Jiang Cheng thought uncharitably.

He hadn’t yet tied his hair up, and that softened the planes of his face, making him look less like an unapproachable deity and a little more human.

“Good morning Sect Leader Jiang, breakfast will be here shortly” he gestured with a graceful hand, indicating they should sit at the table, “Please sit”

They were served breakfast, which was a silent-ish affair, as most meals with the Lan Sect were due to their no talking at mealtimes rule. Jiang Cheng found diversion in watching Lan Wangji pay little attention to his own meal in favour of fussing over Wei Wuxian’s, filling his bowl, making sure he had everything, watching him carefully eat.

That the only thing that kept this half-feral sprout in line at the moment was a calm, well-behaved little boy who in another lifetime would have been almost as much of a handful entertained Jiang Cheng greatly. When he didn’t have to deal with the misbehaviour that was.

And another distraction was of course their host.

It wasn’t just about his features either, Lan Xichen was beautiful to watch. His posture was perfect, every movement he made elegant and precise. He really was the embodiment of refinement and manners. Jiang Cheng stopped himself staring as Lan Xichen reached over to pour more tea for him.

Sure he was going to embarrass himself he finished eating quickly, before rising from the table and nodding at Lan Xichen.

“Enjoy your day, Sect Leader Lan” and he walked out of Lan Xichen’s rooms, leaving the youngsters in the other man’s care for the day.

***

Lan Xichen paused briefly, his chopsticks held mid-air, before a soft smile flitted across his face and he returned to eating.

He supposed he had left Jiang Wanyin holding the baby last night so to speak, and he deserved the reversal the Yunmeng Jiang Sect head had smoothly enacted on him.

He tapped the side of Lan Wangji’s bowl with his chopsticks to draw his brother’s attention back to his own meal. He obeyed. For about a minute. And then it was back to fussing over Wei Wuxian.

“Wangji, we do not crowd people during mealtimes”  

“Mealtimes are silent” his brother countered, his small chin rising in challenge.

Lan Xichen had to stop his lips from twitching in amusement.

He hardly dared to think what a test Wangji with his current level of misbehaviour and bad manners was being to Jiang Wanyin’s volatile temper. Not helped by the fact Jiang Wanyin wasn’t particularly fond of his brother even before his “gremlin” phase.

He also knew Jiang Wanyin’s bark was worse than his bite when it came to juniors, one only had to have seen him interact with his nephew Jin Ling to realise that.

“Wangji, you will sit and finish your meal” he didn’t use his authoritarian voice very often, which was probably why Wangji found himself moving to obey subconsciously.

#shay's stuff #mdzs #mdzs fic #mdzs fanfic #the untamed #lan xichen #jiang cheng #wei wuxian #lan wangji #xicheng #is building #wangxian #is on hold #Uncle Jiang Cheng is actually pretty good at hair #crack #post canon #some brotherly feels that JC will rather die than admit to #turnabout is fair play