#like they know that milkvan need to be together by now to make sense and that's why their version has them happy right away

[chirpsythismorning]

Idk what’s worse, the fact that there are milkvans out there that believe El commissioned Will’s painting, or that a majority of milkvans believe she didn’t, but still think everything Will said to Mike in the van scene applies to how El feels about Mike as well. And honestly, how could they not? Mike looked very happy and emotional hearing Will's words in the van... no shit they're hoping that's how El feels.

But El never called Mike the heart. El never said she needed Mike and always will. Those words coming from Will's feelings for Mike, then being used to inspire Mike to give his monologue to El, was disingenuous bc it was never El’s feelings being responded to in the first place.

‘It only works if it comes from you’

That’s the whole problem. It didn’t work bc it was coming from Will, not El.

IF everything Will said applied to El, why not have it come from her?

No, but seriously??

Is s5 just going to open up to El apologizing to Mike for ignoring him after the monologue, followed by her just repeating everything Will said with her own twist and Mike being like cool!! That works for me!

The problem with making the narrative choice to instead focus on Will's feelings at the forefront, only to follow it up with El's identical feelings, does nothing but make the whole thing fall flat.

Instead of seeing this main couple voice their love for each other themselves, I gotta have her brother do it for her?? And only then after he does it, can I see her do it in like a 2.0 version of sorts????

So many milkvans are willing to acknowledge that Mike and El’s dynamic throughout the series is riddled frivolous conflict more than anything, with little to no time dedicated to showing the development that actually matters. They say they wish the show spent more time with them actually face to face acknowledging how they both feel verbally without the constant cloud of some other third party interfering, causing them to have issues. They say that this time though, they think the Duffers will magically pull through for them and go from what they believe is shitty writing to ‘good’ writing, based in terms of how they'll handle Mike and El's relationship in s5...

But that's not realistic on any front, milkvan, byler or otherwise.

And that's a big part of the problem, bc they know the pacing has not been great for them, and they NEED the show to just give them Mike and El so they can be happy, but that's not how you build up suspense for a love story. And dragging out Mike and El any more, would just be a repeat of every other season before. They reached their peak and so they can only down from here. That's kind of the whole point.

One thing to note is that the Duffers always create conflict for the incompatible couple early in a season, so that the audience doesn’t feel too uncomfortable with the idea of considering the other option that’s at the forefront for the rest of the season.

This will ESPECIALLY be the case for byler, bc Will already has home wrecker allegations as it is. And it's also a highly controversial queer ship, and so people are going to be making claims left and right that it’s wrong bc of xyz.

They just wont be able to have byler scenes loaded with romantic tension all season long, more than any other season, and with the story making it more obvious they want us to root for them, while also having Mike and El still be together. And it's simply bc the reality is the Duffers have a record of doing the complete opposite of that.

This is also endgame territory, so there is a serious pressure on the writers part to get their audience to be closer to rooting for byler than denying it even being possible. Meaning they NEED the audience to be watching their first kiss and, for better or worse, be thinking, FINALLY just get it over with already!

Also what's El's supposed to be up to while this is happening? Are we assuming she's just stringing along waiting for Mike to get his shit together? Like Jesus!

El has every right to say her piece and get that shit over with, by episode 1 or 2 at the latest. She could be a focused on Max and her family and friends, which if you'll note also includes Mike and Will, but instead this time without the pressure of her having to hope that something will turn around and suddenly Mike will decide he finally loves her... She doesn't deserve that.

Byler is clearly the route they are taking. If that is the plan, it's time to make this separation so that the audience is finally confronted with viewing Mike and El without the constant rose tinted love at first sight goggles, and instead give them a chance to be their authentic selves.

And I think El, being a character that could barely speak in s1, that her not getting her own voice in this situation is fucking serious. El not being able to say those words to Mike herself, like there's a reason for that. And so when she finally does get to say how she feels, there isn't going to be any room for subtext or misunderstanding, not on the audiences part nor Mike's. El has always been pretty clear about what she wants and I think that will apply in s5 now more than ever.

#byler #no but srs i try to imagine their version of the show and my brain sort of just freezes up #is their dynamic going to just completely shift and they'll communicate perfectly #after barely communicating at all at the end of s4? #like they know that milkvan need to be together by now to make sense and that's why their version has them happy right away #bc they cant allow themselves to see it any other way #bc it would just literally be a repeat of every other season... #somethings gotta give #give el her voice to say how she feels for herself #and don't be mad when it turns out her brothers feelings don't exactly match up with hers #you know.. the words mike smiled captivatingly too...

[0daylighthours0]

A Deep Dive into Milkvan and Byler's Development: If Milkvan Was Endgame All Along, Why Was it Written Like This???

SO. I've been rewatching st with my mother, who's never seen it before. And she was a fan of milkvan throughout seasons 1 and 2. Viewing those seasons again I could see why, they're cute. However, come season 3 and INSTANT distaste. And, listen, my mother is not the consciously shipping gal. She simply routes for main character pairings as writers intend, doesn't read between the lines, doesn't nothing. And she does NOT know my own opinions on the pairing. In other words, completely unbiased, uninternet drama influenced eyes. We've now reached season 3 and, after getting through a chunk of it, I asked her,

"so what do you think of Mike and El?"

and she expressed to me that they seem to be, quote:

"not very good together."

She said El's character doesn't suit the way she's acting now (in the first few episodes, concerning Mike), that Mike is more likeable and interesting when he's away from her. She doesn't like the way they ditched the party, and when it comes to their 'making out' the scenes are seen by her from Hopper's perspective (in other words, distasteful). She claimed that they'd be much better characters as friends.

And ya know what, she's right. And I mean like - duh, that's what we've been saying all this time, I'm not stating anything new here. But guys, wouldn't it be strange if the central couple of the show, pivotal that it is liked by audiences and is rooted for by them as they are THE pair, would be so dislikable like this? So uninteresting, so cliche.

I mean, okay, let's do a little mental experiment I like to do to test if I'm not just acting delulu. Let's play a game. In this game, milkvan ARE meant to be endgame. They are in love, they were all along, and they're here to draw in viewers and appease all El stans. Now, seasons 1 and 2 their relationship is honestly fine. Surface level, yeah, people will watch and appreciate them. They perfectly blend in with all the other neat pairings of the seasons, and have their own unique character traits to stand out as a main couple.

Just pretending our mate Will doesn't exist, we now get into season 3. Now, writers have nothing to lose here. If you've finished season 2, you probably like milkvan already. The issue is that they're already together now, so what's the conflict going to be? The arc? And every central couple needs that conflict to stay juicy.

Just take a look:

Jancy: quarrels, struggle to understand one another

Jopper: not yet together, one sided? will they won't they

Lumax: ...

Lumax? Lumax. Huh, guess they were simply together. Some loveable bickering, maintained a friendly dynamic while clearly in closer proximity. Well then, writers can do the same for milkvan right? Well, yes easily. But one might argue that since they are supposed to be THE pairing they need more going on between them than that. So what'll it be? Well, it seems that writers thought,

"hey, why not break them up?"

ok so.. that's a bit risky. I mean you want people to like this ship, if you break them up then that threats: 1. there being a disliking to one or both characters, 2. coming off generic if done incorrectly, 3. the break up might make no sense considering how in love they came off as just a season ago. But hey.. it could work, if done right. Some kind of misunderstanding, similar to Jancy. Maybe an argument leading to a sudden parting. I mean, yeah, Yeah! I can see that. Perhaps Mike is being too overprotective whilst El's trying to sacrifice herself for something, so she NEEDS to separate herself from him attempting to hurt him less. Or, I dunno, something akin. What's crucial is that us, AS THE AUDIENCE, still know them to be deeply in love. I mean, we have to still want them to be together. And we've seen couple trouble before. Just take a look at Lumax season 4 - did you or did you not want the best for both of them as a pair? You most likely did. See, it's doable. So did people like milkvan season 3 the same way, even after a separation plot? No.

Okay well, there are obviously those who'll always love milkvan no matter but, see, season 3 tainted it. "We need to write them like this cause it's more realistic to teenager behavior" my ars. You can make it messy without making it icky. Not only did it sour their unique dynamic, it flabbergastingly stomped on Mike as a character.

Honestly, I feel Mike has always been a mild struggle to write. Season 1 his motivations were 'find Will' (who still doesn't exist in our mind game yet shh) and 'protect El'. This worked well for him. Afterwards though, El and Will became more separate plots to him. But as a main character it remained integral that he be closely linked to them somehow. This sets him apart from Lucas and Dustin, who can easily be given any arc any season as their plots have the flexibility of a side quest nature. Since what Mike does is meant to matter more - with there probably being a better way of phrasing that but you know what I mean - it's harder knowing what he'll do when El and Will (who we'll GET to sh.) are their own separate people. And Mike is just a boy, he doesn't have super powers and he isn't a cop, which leaves there even less for him to do which is of significance. Season 2 writers decided upon having him support Will's arc, making himself of enough relevance by being able to take credit for some Will development in the story, and the plots that surrounded that, and then Mike was thrown a little bone by being the one to come up with the idea of burning those vines in the finale.

Truthfully, you don't really remember Mike's deeds much when reminiscing the series. It isn't like Dustin who's bond with Dart sticks to everyone, or Nancy and Jonathan responsible for kicking out Hawkins Lab. This is due to them, again, being able to traverse all sorts of adventures without limits. But my guy Mike can't do dat. Sadly, this kind of leads to him coming of as a little.. well... insignificant. And I know I know, the Mike truthers are gonna come at my throat. And hey! I love him too. I only want the best for my boy.

This makes season 3 a unique case cause it seems that, for the plot they decided they wanted, writers actually had to almost entirely change his character. I mean mate s2 Mike and s3 Mike are two different peoples, don't even. And I don't believe that the Duffers had their story and character turnouts completely drawn out from the very start at all. If I was to guess, I'd assume they have vague ideas of little plots they plan to include in future, but there is definitely a lot that has come unpredicted or changed throughout st's runtime. And one of those phenomenons are Michael Wheeler. So they decided to make this guy a di-

So they decided to make him more douchy, more movie typical teenage guy. It's not as if he wholly sucked, he didn't, but he didn't really do much. Whined about his girlfriend, separated the party. I mean what even was his arc? (UnLESS–)

You see, if milkvan is written to be loved, then season 3 was strike one. All of its charm was stripped away. It seems they had some cute scenes after their reconciliation, but it's not enough. It's just sort of

"oh, ok, so they're happy with eachother now. yayy."

and Stranger Things should want to be anything but boring. Sure they often enjoy indulging in tropes, but they always do something different with them. Something standoutish. And from this point on milkvan just got dull. Either writers ran out of ideas or lost interest, honestly (still with our mind game of telling ourselves they're meant to be).

But it's okay. Look, so season 3 was a bit rocky, maybe lost a couple of fans for the guys, but it is salvageable. Easily, easily. Looks like we want a plot of Mike struggling to tell El he loves her. Great! Much to work with.

So let's get into it. Season 4! Choices were... made. And, okay, now we can't go any further without bringing in our boy Will.

Mike is intrinsically tied to Will and El and has been from the start. Maybe Will was more of an accident. Maybe s1 Will was just a plot device for Mike, then s2 Will was a plot device again and Mike needed to be there as the main boy character. Come season 3 and it seems their relationship still matters. Will was sidelined - hard - so most of Mike's moments revolved around El. But as his bond with Mike is the only that's been properly built up, that's the only friend we'll get him interacting with in a way that matters. So the Mike and Will tie continues!

But that does not have to be the case for season 4. Now the writers have a chance.

They made Will gay.

Ok so.. ok so yeah that's fine. Yeah! I mean they didn't have to do that, might put them in hot water with the bylers since milkvan is their golden beauty but.. you know what no no that's okay. He's been hinted at being queer since episode 1, why not make it canon! Cool that works. Explore that, especially since we now have Vecna who can easily target Will for this. Give him a boyfriend! Or a guy crush. He's at a new school now? That's cool. Maybe we can explore some new male character Will's taken interest in. Hey maybe he meets someone who interests him which rises to surface his whole sexuality plot and-

he's in love with Mike.

Ok. No. No. What are you doing? What do you mean?? You didn't have to do that. Strike- strike EFING TWO mates! Strike. 👏 efing. 👏 2!

This was part 1. I am tired and gots to get my ars in bed. But ohohoh, do not worry. I am just getting started.

#anti milkvan #anti mileven #byler #byeler #stranger things #mike wheeler #will byers #byler is real #byler is endgame #byler analysis #byler nation #byler proof #byler is canon #byler endgame #byler tumblr #stranger things 4

[lordystrange]

10 best byler proofs by me

10. The cast, especially David (who knows the ending) and Finn (who might know something), are always so happy talking about Byler. They wouldn’t be if Will ended up dying alone as a sad gay. Also no one likes milkvan except maybe Millie unless she’s acting… Caleb even said ”Lucas and Max’s love is real unlike Milkvan’s”.

9. Mike has been queercoded throughout the whole series. Especially with queer colors, he spent s4 dressed as a gay pride flag. Also bi and pan colors are associated with him. Also Ted’s ”our son with a girl?” and everything Eddie said about forced conformity etc

8. Byler parallelling other romantic ships like Jancy, Jopper and Lumax. I’m not listing examples because there are SO MANY! (Also Milkvan parallelling all the platonic/dead ships)

7. Mileven being bones. We have nothing that shows their actual, deep love they’re ”supposed to have”. We don’t know what Mike loves about El and what El loves about Mike. We don’t know what makes them a compatible match romantically. We only know things that don’t make them compatible: El feeling the need to lie to Mike, Mike feeling embarrassed of his nerdy self with El, El feeling unloved by Mike, Mike feeling inferior to El…

6. The desert scenes. The triple take ofc, but also the car roof top convo with Will (jancy parallell). Will is talking about how it’s scary to say how you really feel because what if they don’t like the truth. And Mike NODS. If the truth was that he loved El exactly like El wanted, El would like that truth. So what is the truth Mike is worried that El doesn’t like…?

5. Mike’s monologue. He had to be pushed by Will to open his mouth. He lied about him loving her at first sight. He copied the t-shirt part from Eddie. He kept saying she’s his superhero which El doesn’t wanna be. He didn’t include anything personal about El and their relationship after the t-shirt thing… Also El didn’t seem to like what she heard and their love didn’t save the world. And they didn’t even talk after it. And while filming it they didn’t focus on just the couple (like they did with byler in s2 shed scene) and they let Finn improvise as if it wasn’t that important (as important as the van scene…)

4. Mike would be so poorly written if he wasn’t into Will and I don’t think the Duffers would just ignore his character. Also all the lip glances and heart eyes wouldn’t make sense.

3. Byler/Milkvan contrast. When Will was gone and they found his ”body”, Mike heard Will breathing in a radio channel and believed he was alive. He didn’t rest for a second, he did everything he could to find him. When he thought El was dead, he didn’t go looking for her, even tho a couple times he actually saw her. Also in s3 when Milkvan had a fight, Max said Mike will be crawling back to her begging for forgiveness in no time. Instead Mike laid on a sofa and ate and complained. When Byler had a fight… well we all know what Mike did then.

2. Mike and Will’s relationship has always been different from other friendships. They’ve said it themselves (”pls don’t tell the others, they wouldn’t understand”, ”Hawkins is not the same without you”, ”you make her me feel better for being different”). Also their scenes together have always been a big deal (van scene took an entire day to film, crazy together was written before s1 was even filmed) and they are shot in a really romantic way (music, lighting…)

1. In the beginning of s3, Will said to Joyce that he’s not gonna fall in love. That made his arc about romance. We know now that he already fell in love, but he doesn’t believe it’s requited. If s5 goes from ”i don’t think he loves me back” to ”he doesn’t love me back” we get literally nowhere and the entire storyline (since s1) would be useless and waste of time and money. They wouldn’t make Will suffer 4 seasons and then suffer some more. So believe me when I say it goes ”I don’t think he loves me back” to ”He does love me back!”

I wish you all a very merry byler endgame in s5! 💚

#byler #byler proof #byler evidence #byler s5 #stranger things #van scene #will byers #mike wheeler #mike x will #miwi #byler analysis #stranger things analysis #byler endgame #byler canon #anti milkvan #anti m*leven #anti midleven #mike wheeler i know what you are #gay mike wheeler #bi mike wheeler #unlabeled mike wheeler

[lvmity]

byler tag these days simulator

🫂 bylerairporthug Follow

Hey guys .am i the only one who doesn't know whats the Waterfalls and village? Can someone let me in on the joke?

#byler #byler endgame #waterfallgate

3 notes

💀 iknowwhatyouarevecna Follow

The way they look at each other in this scene.... please be fr they're so in love like. suffer brothers i will come for you if you don't make Byler canon . im storming into the Netflix studios idc

#byler #st5 #byler is endgame #byler is real

11 notes

👨🏻‍🦲baldmikhailfanaccount Follow

POV its 2025, you're sitting on your couch ready to watch st5 . FINALLY. you press play on netflix. the opening scene . youve eaited years for this moment. tbe camera shows one waterfall. then another. then another one to complete the three. someone's voiceover comes on. it sounds weirdly like finn's voice, but there's something off about it... he comes on screen. it is mikhail. and he is bald. he tells the main characters to not worry, they've found the local village and will be safe from the ud here. you wake up screaming

#byler #mikhailgate #mikhail

19 notes

🎨 what-did-you-think-really Follow

let's not forget what happened with that other actor. please stop speculating on someone's sexuality, it is none of our business and he would have said something.

#byler #<- target audience

12 notes

✉️ lettergate-writing Follow

hii I was thinking and im working on this new au, it would be if mike wasn't that oblivious in ST4 and there was only one bed. anyways lmk what you think im also thinking maybe lettergate? wr all know it's real tbh

#byler #byler fic #also new chapter of my rewrite of freezer scene is up if u. are interested in that then also check out my other works #letterwrites

9 notes

🎉 partyrockismikewheely Follow

Uhhh i was away for literally two weeks what is a waterfall?? Village?? and did we get episode titles

#byler #target audience

15 notes

🐢 bylering4ever Follow

honestly soooo so tired of bi mike vs gay mike discourse. in the end he wants to kiss will byers. who cares

#byler #"it doesnt make sense narratively for him to be x or y" UHHH have you heard of having fun with hcs. #is this your first fandom.

6 notes

🎂 birthdaygate1407 Follow

always thinking about how mike and will are each other's first true loves and they're probably married nowadays, making comics together being successful. i mean, they're old now. and they are still together. man.

#byler #sometiems it hits me. they're so meant to be #endgame byler

23 notes

💇🏻‍♂️ blue-n-yellow-meet Follow

Ok here's some more tweets from that account. Honestly take all of this with a grain of salt as we can't know who's behind this, they say they're working on the set. Possible spoilers.

Read more

#st5 speculation #st5 #anti milkvan #byler #<- Target audience. #stranger things 5

26 notes

💛hearteyes-cgi-truther Follow

HEJQJAHEJJWHSSJ OMG . wraaagehehdgeh

#byler #the way im insane abt them #might even say #crazy #like. they need to kiss. on the mouth #boyfriends

14 notes

#byler #if u have one of these urls plwase do not sue me im nice i swear. this is for fun #so i didnt include assholes in general. biphobes. real life shippers. etc. #fabis stuff

[gayofthefae]

My surprise at the I love you speech was mostly sourced at my first watch casual interpretation of Byler.

Why is Mike behaving this way towards Will? Oh, he reciprocates and is being defensive about it. That would make since. The one thing is how are they gonna break down is relationship with El?...................

oh. like that.

So I really thought it was a done deal I was like "I can't see where this is going but of the two, who has a shittier arc if Mike doesn't have feelings for them. That's who he ends up with" and then was like ok that's the what I just don't know the "how" and then the next episode they GAVE ME THE HOW. So my huge confusion was that the ily speech essentially TOOK AWAY THE HOW???

The thing about that is taking away the "how" doesn't contradict the "what". I knew Byler was endgame when I believed Mike could tell El he loved her in 4x02 just as much as I did at the end of 4x09.

But it's funny because since 4x02, my thought has never been "wow, guess they aren't doing Byler!" It was "wow, guess they're taking a different route to Byler than I expected!"

It makes sense though in retrospect. In simple terms, the pieces were falling into place too early and they need to get together in season 5. (I also didn't know there was a season 5 + past seasons have never had cliff hangers so that adds to it I guess lol). I was taken aback because I understood the destination with my only apprehension being - honestly just curiosity about the path. Then they laid down a path. Then they were like "haha lol that path was unrelated! Psych!" and I was left curious "what's the path then?" with the additional question "what was that for?"

And then I remembered Cyrano and the rest is history but the POINT IS. Since believing in it, aside from occasional queerbait fear, I have never had Byler doubt based on ANYTHING in the story. Nothing in Netflix's "Stranger Things" has given me Byler doubt. I was only surprised to be wrong at how they were getting together.

I thought they were doing the "Mike notices Will overenthusiastically correcting his self-deprecation" romance trope when they were doing Cyrano so I was confused. But as I always say, they were only failing at a goal they didn't have. Was that a failure to execute that romance trope? Yes! Because they were never trying to! I may consider it doubt, actually, during the confession, but then because nothing else resolved in the season either I was like "Oh...that wasn't supposed to be it oh ok that makes more sense"

Anyway, now I know that and this is a long winded way of saying the only incorrect predictions I ever had in regards to Byler were how they would get together. From the second Byler was introduced to me as a viable option of an ending, Milkvan felt entirely illogical as an option and only proved to be moreso as the season progressed. Byler is endgame. Sometimes I'm wrong about how, but that isn't Byler doubt. It's an adjustment and then we are back, baby. The biggest proof against Byler is what I interpreted on my watch (once I realized there would be a season 5) as "a different direction to Byler than I originally thought".

#byler #stranger things #first watch

[emblazons]

hi marie, its me again <3 the anon with byler doubt haha ... you made such great points! and tysm for such a thorough response.

I am SO CURIOUS how do you think they'll get Mike and Will together? I think that's the aspect that has me doubting the most because it feels so so MESSY and they can very easily mess it all up if they aren't careful.

Explaining Mike's internalized homophobia etc might be something too difficult to unpack in just one season, on top of everything else going on as well with the world literally ending. I also don't know what the point was of having Mike say he loved Eleven if it wasn't true, what do you think they were trying to achieve with that?

Do we truly think she'd be okay with breaking up with Mike? And if the answer is yes, how will that affect Mike and El's dynamic going forward, you think? Will they really not only break up milkvan, but leave elmike underdeveloped in favor of Byler?

I look at the Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle and that has been a mess for seasons now and still no resolution, so I don't know how they'll do it for Mike and Will. I fear they'll go for the "easy route" (aka milkvan endgame) to focus on the supernatural and other characters more. Because if Byler is endgame I feel like they'd need to devote a great chunk of the season to them in order to explain wth is going on with Mike specifically + giving him closure with El.

I suppose something else that gives me doubt is how Mike and Will have been sidelined in these last few seasons to give more screentime/protagonism to other characters and dynamics, so I don't know if I can fully believe the Duffers care THAT much about romantic!Byler if that makes sense.

Hopefully this all doesn't sound overly pessimistic or something, I am genuinely curious about your thoughts in some of these more like looking for reassurance tbh! Especially after reading your response to my first ask <3 TYSM once again!!

hello again!

To be honest, you've got a lot of questions that require separate (and equally detailed) responses, but...let me see if I can briefly explain each, and maybe link to other analyses I've done that might help make sense of why I say.

note: some of these are just my frankest opinions unfiltered, but I do have analytical reasons for all of them. Your questions are also asking things it's taken several rewatches and a year to sort through so...apologies if you just get the simplest version of the idea delineated here haha. also, a cut, because this got really long.

1: How do you think they'll get Mike and Will together? Transparently? I'm not really all that into specifics, because expecting specific things means I'm going to fall into the trap of thinking I'm the one writing it when I'm not and then say The Duffers "lied" or "messed up" because I expected something they never put in there. That said—in terms of plain setup, they will need to address the painting because that was a critical plot point from damn near minute one of S4, and now it's become fully integrated with not only Will's feelings for Mike, but Mike's own sense of El's feelings for him.

Beyond that...I think El will need to be the one to initiate the "complete" breakup, because she's the one who wanted space in the first place, the one who is repeatedly having her romantic partner paralleled to parental and tragic figures, the one refuses to be vulnerable & who built lies into their relationship...and the one whose general arc centers around reclaiming autonomy and choice from the men in her life. I also think Mike will be the one to initiate the romantic aspect, if its not a bit mutual.

2: Mike's internalized homophobia etc might be something too difficult to unpack in just one season - I disagree. We managed to sort through introducing Will's romantic feelings and sense of his queerness in a single season just fine...and Mike has had queer-coding show up throughout every season if you know what you're looking for.

The fact that this boy already has a one way sign into his closet, has repeatedly yelled about "boys only" every season AND shows clear signs of male attraction already has most people (even the supposed 'GA') suspicious of his sexuality, and combined with his devotion to will + the wider context, there are plenty of ways to introduce the idea of him liking boys explicitly that don't require any intense delineation...unless you expect them to say "he's gay" out loud, which they didn't do when Robin came out, and still haven't done for Will either...despite everyone knowing damn well they're gay.

3: I also don't know what the point was of having Mike say he loved Eleven if it wasn't true - I think that most of the breakdowns I've done of parentified!mike make clear that the love he has for her is somewhat genuine...though its being written as misplaced familial love, because he spent so much time believing he needed "a girl" to assuage his insecurities.

While I absolutely lean toward a gay!Mike reading myself, it's still clear even without a label that Mike's love mirrors Hopper's more than it resembles any of the love given by potential romantic partners to other women across the show—and Mike, given that he was being told by Will that El needed him to say he loved her for her to win, did what he thought was necessary to help her.

I do not think his love for her is a lie—I simply think it isn't romantic, and has now been so conflated with something negative in El's mind that it wouldn't matter if he mean't it romantically anyway. That said: narratively, Mike had to say he loved El because unless the fullness of what was expected (an I love you) was accomplished, it would hang over the story and any relationship Byler might have. El needed to hear it...so she could reject it, which she did.

4: Do we truly think she'd be okay with breaking up with Mike? yes. I think El will be absolutely 300000% just fine being broken up with Mike lmao. She has Hopper back now (who she was mourning the loss of, and therefore looking to fill with Mike emotionally), on top of having Max's "there's more to life than stupid boys" at the fore of her mind saving her.

Mike is also paralleled to parental and abusive figures in El's mind, on top of the fact that she has been keeping him at an emotional distance for the entirety of S4. Given that she and Lucas will probably also get closer in the search for Max...I'm quite sure she's not going to take it as hard as people imagine, especially given the fact that we already know she was happiest in S3 when they were broken up.

I also don't have any expectation of ElMike being super close friends (beyond party bonds + civility) either, which...I mean if you are I apologize but. I don't see that happening in canon, so them being developed deeply as friends before the show ends is not important to me as a plot point, and doesn't really have any canonical backing considering their ongoing lack of platonic connection outside of the necessary + lack of common interest. That's even a note thematically in the show...which means its makes sense for them not to be that close by the end of the narrative.

5: Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle and that has been a mess for seasons now and still no resolution, so I don't know how they'll do it for Mike and Will. Truth be told, that love triangle has a resolution—Nancy has chosen Jonathan, and continues to, even though she flirted with Steve when she felt lonely. Nancy's arc has always centered around choosing something different than her parents and has from S1—her brief flirtation with Steve aside, her loyalty to Jonathan hasn't changed, though they are absolutely not a perfect couple.

If anything, the end of S4 set up Jonathan and Steve learning to be friends less so than anything implying Nancy might choose Steve instead—Jonathan is finally in a narrative position to choose something for himself now which frees him up to be honest with Nancy, and even outside of that, Nancy is far more likely to end up with single than she is with Steve—which is the exact opposite of how they've set up Mike to be with Will rather than El over the course of the season.

6: I fear they'll go for the "easy route" (aka milkvan endgame) to focus on the supernatural and other characters more. I don't agree. The supernatual plot has always been well-integrated with the romantic elements in every couple across the board, from Mike's "first love lost" energy happening when El disappeared in S1, Lumax bonding in S2 in a fight with demodogs, Jancy's bonding across S2-3 happening in the lab seeing the gate, while Will was un-possessed, and while they fought the thing monster in the hospital....and Jopper in Russia fighting a demogorgon in S4.

The Duffers have never slacked in setting up their romances in conjunction with the supernatual plots, and there's no reason to think they're gonna start with Byler, especially given Will's mirroring of Vecna/Henry, the way the day his disappeared is the day the UD is frozen, and how he's the one who can sense him...while now having Mike glued to his side.

7: if Byler is endgame I feel like they'd need to devote a great chunk of the season to them in order to explain wth is going on with Mike specifically + giving him closure with El. The 5th season is going to bring all of the characters together again, and they've already said Will is central to that. I've written before about the reason why they had to sideline Will in their plot to make a narrative point, but regardless...like I said before, if you know how to read subtext, Mike being queer won't come as all that much of a surprise.

Note: I've done several (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) analyses on Mike and his arc, which might help.

Beyond that...again, I honestly don't think The Duffers care much to make ElMike besties like fanon seems to think they should be (they haven't done it with any of the other romantic couples they've broken up) so...closure can include civility and acceptance for them the way it did S2 Steve with Jancy, imo. What Mike needs most is to gain the courage to accept himself and realize he doesn't need a girl to assuage his insecurities—and him being casual friends with El the same way he is casually supportive canonically with Max makes more sense than trying to skirt over all the mess of their relationship for the sake of an attached fandom ☠️

—that was a lot to cover, but hopefully that cleared up my position on a lot of your questions? I would also encourage you to take a look at my ST commentary tag & analyses highlights list (soon to be updated again) and even my asks for more context, on top of maybe giving the show a rewatch in its entirety if you can.

Sidebar: I also encourage you to dig into my Duffer Brothers tag and commentary (see bottom of the page), because knowing who made the show is just as helpful as understanding the show itself.

Its really easy to get caught in other people's wants and headcanons for the show if you don't keep going back to it yourself, so—as lovingly as possible, I really do encourage you to just sit and watch it with the "byler knowledge" you have from users like me, your other fave analysts, and maybe some of the "old guard" like @kaypeace21, who was integral in my own development of opinions before I dug in for myself. If you're ever doubting, that's always your best bet.

That said: It's literally impossible to summarize a framework crossing nearly 37 hours of TV in a single ask (or even 20)...which is why I've got almost a year worth of posts about it (and have evolved my depth of understanding dramatically over time).

The same way you can't spark notes your way through a degree without missing a lot of context, even me saying this with evidence won't help a lot if you haven't dug into it yourself—and doubt will repeatedly creep in if you're trusting me over the show itself, even though the show is where I've pulled all this from lmao.

—this got really long, but....I hope it helped. And again, sorry if I seemed short anywhere lmao. This was a lot to cover. Still, as always, thanks for the ask!

#this got so long lmfaooo #and I'm sorry if I answered bluntly anywhere in my trying to get through all your questions lmao #but also...like. I don't have doubts about the duffers ability or the story direction because I've spent a lot of time with the show #not just with the fandom or scenepacks. Like. all 37 hours of this thing LMFAO #and honestly...that is the only way to truly get a sense of it as a whole entity. It literally exists as a whole unit #we're just waiting on the last piece! #asks

[pholiabanna]

Confession time; i kinda hate the st writers. They are the reason why the pride was ruined during the vol2 waiting, the reason why we face constant homophobia from mlvns and the ga for shipping byler and all bc they refused to break up mlvn and also included that shit ass monologue. Now we have to wait years to see the conclusion meanwhile ppl gradualy start lose their interest. They ruined Nick's career and reputation for no reason when his site was there for years. The way they say nothing against the apparent fandom homophobia even though it is not even a secret since ppl sharw homophobic comments left and right. The way they use Will's car scene as a memeable moment even though many queer fans were devastated when the scene came out. The way they write these characters. The way they treate Will. The way they treated Robin. I have so much spite and hatred bottled in me and i am only starting to realize it after a year. If byler doesnt become canon i hope all st writers and the duffers lose their jobs and never manage to write ever again. I would even support Netlix going full bankrupt. My respect for the writers all depend on whether or not byler becomes canon and i dont care if it makes me stuck with byler or whatever. After everything the writers pulled, yes, my respect all depend on this choice for S5.

Honestly I see where you're coming from, so your feelings are completely valid. I do believe that the monologue and saving byler for the last season makes narrative sense because of the way they've written the story and how best friends to lovers stories usually work (they normally won't get together until the end of a movie, and you have to think of ST as a 5 season long movie).

I think most of those things you pointed out are more of a fandom problem, like Will crying in the van becoming a meme- I believe it was portrayed very seriously in the show and it was a certain sector of the audience who decided to memefy it. Also, the homophobia would happen even if byler became canon in season 4, sadly homophobes are everywhere in every fandom. I also believe a lot of those things you pointed out are more of Netflix's fault, because using Wills scene as a meme was something accounts like Netflix, Netflix geeked, Netflix UK and other did, but I don't recall strangerwriters doing that (but I may be wrong so please if I am let me know). Their executives were probably the ones who decided to split the season as well, and having vol 2 come out right after pride month (being a terrible coincidence because of the byler-Milkvan storyline and the homophobia that subsequently came from maloobans). If I remember correctly, the writers account has stated a couple times that everyone should be allowed to ship whoever they want. But as you pointed out, sometimes I feel like they could do a little bit more. They tanked Nick's reputation (which I can understand up to a certain point if they are trying to protect the show they are working on from getting spoiled, but maybe they should have made a less vague and incriminating statement), and they definitely could address the rampant homophobia in the fandom more frequently.

It sucks that we need to wait so many years to prove we were right, but think about how satisfying it will be once the season comes out and you watch all of those people have a breakdown, and hopefully you see interviews from the duffers explaining how that was the intention all along. If that's the case, then I'll be happy, but as you said, if all of these was for nothing and byler isn't endgame, I'll definitely consider it queerbaiting, because they have built up romantic feelings for Will on Mike's side, even if some people want to deny it. So yeah, queerbaiting in 2023 sucks, and it's totally valid for you to feel like you won't respect them anymore if they go that route. I think more people need to realize this is not a matter of whether the couple I like ends up together over the couple other people like, it's a matter of whether queer people get a respectful and deserved treatment or not. And if they don't, then they're terrible writers, because if the way they fucked up that storyline, and terrible people too.

But hopefully not. Right now, I'm really convinced byler is endgame and they know what they're doing. We have to deal with crazy Melvin stans meanwhile, but the wait will be over before you notice and they'll get really quiet and embarrassed once they realize how wrong they were. But I'd like for them to address some of the homophobic comments online a little bit more often.

#byler #byler tumblr #stranger things

[blognarrymybabes]

My mini Rant !!!

I have couple of questions to ask duffers with all this mess in the vol2 regarding Byler and El. Now, looking at the tag I do have some hope but I still don’t know if I trust duffers at all.

Why did they involve Will in that mess of Milkvan relationship?

They had the opportunity with cali plot to get Will a love interest. They introduced so many characters this season why not one more ?

And if that is such a pain then they could have shown Will crushing on some guy in the new school or finding someone attractive(like they showed Mike idolizing Eddie).

This would have clearly indicated audience towards Will’s sexuality and then later they could have addressed this with a coming out scene with either Jonathan or Mike. This way they could have kept all of Will’s inner turmoil the same that would make him vecna’s target.

If they are sticking to Milkvan Endgame, they could have focused more on Will’s connection to Vecna rather than involving him into their relationship.

I noticed the pattern they have for every season for Milkvan : they split at the start of the season and they end up together at the end.

Now I am confused whether the Duffers think that is romantic, creates some tension between the main couple and that works, that’s their whole story

Let’s for a second consider that their idea of Mike and Eleven. Then why not make their relationship healthy with each season. Why make their reunion rushed in someone way. Because god they have so many problems !!!!

1. They never learn from their mistakes instead just kiss each other at the end

2. They never talk, no actual deep heart to hearts ever

( this is my biggest problem with them! All the other couples have meaningful heart to hearts that showcases the problems they are going through, the character struggles and them working on it.

why not the main couple????!)

3. They never speak the truth to each other. They lie, a lot ! maybe out of fear of losing each other but they pretend to be someone they are not

4. They have very different ideas of each other and therefore different expectations.

5. Mike only sees her as a superhero. Even in his monologue that vision of his doesn’t change when in their fight Eleven clearly states she doesn’t like it. And during his monologue that should have changed, which it should if he loves eleven because then it looks hero worshipping , him still thinking of her as E.T and that is not ideal.

Now looking at Jopper, Jancy and Lumax. Especially, Jopper and Lumax they can write a healthy relationship. They can write a good slow burn. And they can showcase relationship problems and know how to tackle them.

They just don’t do it for Mike and Eleven.

Honestly, I think the entire Milkvan fans don’t ship Mike and El they are more into Millie and Finn. They love the two leads and they want them to be together (no hate to anyone this is just my personal opinion)

If Milkvan is the ship the audience is supposed to root for. If Milkvan is true love and love conquers all. If Milkvan is the endgame then why the love triangle?!

Leave Will alone. No need to add him into it. Show him as this miserable kid, never happy with now his ‘one-sided’ love and his feelings that were used for that shitty monologue

There was no need for that. Period.

But they did !

That’s what gets me !!

If I have to trust duffers and the whole subtext, the whole narrative then I believe they are trying to showcase how Milkvan doesn’t work, how it is not true love. Then the fact that eleven doesn’t defeat vecna after monologue, them not talking after whole confession that Eleven desperately wanted would makes sense.

Especially considering all the problems above and the side by side build up of Byler in vol1

Also, the whole switch in Mike’s character. If they don’t like or want Byler then Mike could still be Will’s bestfriend, supportive and still the same Mike from season2 now just in a relationship, has a girlfriend. Nothing has to change.

But they didn’t.

He flips between Will and El showing us two completely different versions of him when he is alone with either. That for me is obvious in all of the Byler scenes and especially the ones when Mike reunites with Eleven (this includes the Pineapple pizza scene)

If they wanted substance for Will’s main character era or want to showcase him with the heaviest trauma then he already has a lot of that!! This unrequited love wasn’t necessary.

My worry for Will’s character is that they will make him struggle to either make him sacrifice himself or just sideline him with Eleven coming to his rescue.

That is another problem I have with the duffers, the blatant importance to Eleven’s character in the series. I love her, I do. But it’s just so much detailed backstory, so much showcasing of her relationship with other characters and emphasis on her that from season3 it felt more like her show. This sidelined other characters especially the original main characters both Mike and Will.

The other characters have their separate storylines that doesn’t involve her so that is good.

But Mike and Will’s storyline are completely intertwined with hers. This way atleast Mike gets showcased although poorly as only her boyfriend.

And Will’s character gets more sidelined due to him in love with Mike’s.

They could have had a much better storylines for these two character separate from her.

Now with vol2 I don’t know where to stand. I worry they won’t do Will justice, rectify Mike or even go for Byler.

I feel this is why a lot of Bylers are a mess right now because the narration, character placements, subtexts and last scenes from vol2 point towards Byler endgame. But they also held no clear indication of Mike’s feelings.

I feel if we had even a slight peek into Mike’s mind we would know for sure where this is headed for us.

Maybe that is the point ? They want to keep the suspense

But then it also comes as of one-sided Byler which then paints Mike as a horrible, self absorbed person if he truly is straight and in love with Eleven

My biggest question is that His contradictions are intentional or just bad writing ?

Also it makes it hard to hope for Byler when Milkvan is so in the face and loud !

These are my thoughts for now, please let me know what you guys think in the comments !! I would really like to know your perspective.

#byler #mike wheeler #will byers #noah schnapp #finn wolfhard #feel free to correct me

[whyyamihereagain]

Even though we already know it doesn’t make sense for blue meets yellow to be about the m words ship it pisses me off when they try to say it works for them because in terms of colour coding, Mike is Blue, Will is Yellow, Lucas is Red, Dustin is Green and El is Pink. Its literally coded that way since the beginning of the show so technically their ships colour should be purple or blue and pink. The characters don’t always wear their special colours but they usually do in plot specific scenes. In season four, Mike is in that blue jacket, Will is in his yellow flannel, Lucas has his red jacket and Dustin wears his green shirt. Even in the final episode, byler have their blue and yellow outfits, Dustin has green present in his battle gear for the upside down and Lucas has the red stripe still present on his shirt. In the finale, El wearing mostly white after she faces Vecna and figures out what she wants and that she doesn’t need Mike anymore which represents the clean slate and new beginning, that she’s ready to carve out the life she wants for herself now. Her signature colour pink is still present in her finale outfit though as her sleeve cuffs are pink and Mikes colour of blue is nowhere to be seen after the monologue and the final battle. There’s actually a lot of cool colour coding stuff about the main party and how each colour matches their personality it’s one of my favourite parts of the show it’s sad that they only want to explore it when they think they can use it against Byler.

this was so well written, I loved it

and I wholeheartedly agree with everything you said

these people have put so much thought and care in their work only to be dismissed by some shippers who don't like what it means for their ship

milkvans have become predictable at this point. they always start out by calling us delusional, but if they can somehow manage to twist our ideas to fit their ship, they will 100% do it. They did this with the colour coding, the crazy together scene, the van scene

imo they don't even like the show, they don't care about the characters, not even about Mike and El. The only thing they seem to care about is milkvan staying together, and it's a shame because although it is far from perfect, there are things about this TV show that are done so beautifully and they're not appreciated by people

#byler #thank you for this I absolutely loved reading it

[strangeswift]

I always thought the monologue was there to show El that the kind of love Mike has for her is not the way she wants to be loved, and that their relationship couldn't be saved by him saying "I love you" because they had bigger issues than just him not saying those words. El's whole arc this season is about how she can't be put into a box with the words 'monster' and 'superhero' and yet in Mike's monologue he once again refers to her a superhero, which to me is setting up a conversation where El calls out Mike for loving the superhero that he thinks she is rather than the person that she really is, and she will break up with him because she wants to find out who she is without all of that pressure and those labels.

Two of the most prominent memories used when she revived Max were "there's more to life than stupid boys" and "not Hopper, not Mike, you," and I think that is setting up El's independence era where she realizes that she doesn't need a boyfriend and wants to focus on herself, especially now that she has to deal with Hopper's return, the fallout of Max's coma, and the impending fight against Vecna. She'll realize that she cares about Mike deeply but being with him romantically is not what she needs for herself.

Also this is just me and I think most Bylers will heavily disagree but I think they're going with Bi!Mike (who is aware on some level that there's something different about Will but doesn't know at all that he loves Will yet) and doing the misattribution of feelings trope where Mike was only able to say "I love you" because he fell in love with Will's feelings in the van and believed he loved El because of how those words made him feel. He says "I love you for exactly who you are" to her but it's clear that this is going to fall apart soon because the "exactly who you are" that Mike believes in is not El - she never said any of those things that made him feel so loved and so valued. That person was Will.

I think that once Mike finds out about the painting and Milkvan breaks up due to Mike realizing that El didn't say any of that "you're the heart" stuff, Will is going to confess to him as an explanation for why he lied and Mike will 'platonically accept him' at first and they will be closer than ever. Then after the timeskip, as they work together as a team to defeat Vecna, we're going to see Mike realizing that he has feelings for Will too and they'll probably kiss towards the very end of the show. Mike probably won't get an explicit bi label but they'll show him being in a happy relationship with Will.

I don't see a convincing way to do Gay!Mike at all after the monologue but I think implied Bi!Mike - where he thought he loved El due to the van speech but eventually finds out that those were Will's words, which jump-starts their romance arc - is very possible.

(The only line that truly bugs me in the monologue is the 'my life started the day we found you in the woods.' We as an audience know it's bullshit bc Mike did not love El immediately and he also said befriending Will in kindergarten was the best thing he's ever done but idk how they're going to explain away that one in-universe. But the rest of it is fairly easy to debunk imo and actually serves a purpose for both El's arc and Mike's realization of his feelings.)

Warning for mild By1er doubt

Very good points and well said.

To the gay Mike vs. bi Mike point, I definitely think he's going to be unlabeled in canon. Personally I am a gay Mike truther primarily because "It's not my fault you don't like girls" reads as projection to me which only makes sense if Mike does not, in fact, like girls. And I think they could do gay Mike in a convincing way. (Here's my thoughts on what is going on in Mikes head during the monolgue, which I wrote from the perspective of him being gay, though it doesn't have to be read that way.) BUT I don't think they will do gay Mike, in canon he'll definitely be unlabeled.

To the point about the "my life started the day I found you in the woods" Yeah that line bumps me too. I know a lot of people use it as evidence that Mike is obviously lying through the whole monolgue. But I don't really think he's intentionally lying? So that doesn't explain it away for me. The pessimistic part of me just thinks maybe the writers just didn't expect people to read into it that much so they didn't concern themselves with the fact that Mike canonically was going to let El be sent "back to Pennhurst or wherever she came from." But I honestly don't know what to think about it. (I do have a theory about this line but I don't know how much merit to put into it, I'll probably make a separate post about it.)

Anyway, you made extremely good points. As I said before, I'm a massive pessimist, so everything I say regarding S5 predictions should probably be taken with a grain of salt for that reason. I have a hard time trusting the Duffers because I have a hard time trusting anyone.

For example, I am sort of afraid that they're still going to lean into the Superhero thing for El now that she has her powers back. It is possible that El was only upset at being called that because she didn't have her powers at the time. That's not the way I choose to interpret her character, I think she doesn't want to be a "superhero" regardless, BUT I worry that we're all misinterpreting it and the Duffers are going to be stupid idiots. But I won't dig too much more into the things about the monolgue that worry me, because that's depressing and I don't want to talk about it anymore.

Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts anon, you said it well so I don't have much else to add. I sincerely hope that you are 100% correct and this is exactly the way the Duffers intended it to be interpreted.

#asks #abby rambles

[0daylighthours0]

Y'know what? Before Stranger Things s4 aired, it was pretty much labeled as the make it or break it season for Byler.

For up to three seasons, Byler was easily disregarded as a delusional ship. There was enough for it to make clear sense in people who really focused on it - but in terms of the rest of the audience, the attention on Mike and Will as a pairing just wasn't enough. Everyone acknowledged that if season 4 of Stranger Things needs to send fans signs that Byler won't be endgame, they'll do it that season.

I set myself up to be ready for any disappointment if that was the case. So the season aired. And y'know what I got?

I got Mike and Will spending the entire season together. I got confirmed feelings on Will's side. I got shade thrown at Milkvan as their every 'happy' scene together put focus on Will. Byler became, not a possible idea, but imposible to ignore.

When Volume 1 first aired my little brother got to it first, and when I asked him if it was Byler'esque (we'd had a bet) he reluctantly said, "sigh yeah...".

Years before I'd asked my father his thoughts on Mike and Will's relationship, he'd responded saying it was strictly platonic.

After season 4, he just treats it as canon.

"It's just obvious now, the show wants to set them up".

Guys. My father, a man who has a hard time excepting anything un-het in film, was completely convinced in their relationship after watching season 4.

Do you think this should have been the impression he got if they didn't want to bring light to this pairing? The impression any audiences should have gotten?

Byler is now WIDELY popular and recognizable, it's actually DEBATABLE if they'll get together over Milkvan.

I feel like longtime Bylers always saw them that way so they've noticed the change a bit less but, sitting down and actually thinking about it, that's crazy. We were the uncanon queer ship, now we're literally halfway canon are you kidding me? Should this have been the writing choice if they didn't want people disappointed in Mike and El's staying together? No! If Milkvan is endgame then they had an easy 'out card' to not disappointing Bylers. Un 👏 canon 👏 it 👏 in season 👏 4 👏. It would have been EASY. Give Will another set up interest, make it clear that Mike and El belong together. Bylers would have continued to be seen as delusional, and most audiences would have continued rooting for Milkvan. We all know that that isn't the case now. Now if Byler doesn't happen, I daresay the majority of the audience will be baffled. And Byler still continues to get milked! Interviews hyping them up, blooming signpost. It's hype that doesn't need to be there if it's all pointless.

Now, I actually lost a little bit of faith in Byler. It makes just so much sense, yet it almost makes too much sense in a way that it seems too good to be true. But this post is a thought that keeps me up at night. Forget queer bait, it'd be the worst writing decision possibly ever made if this stuff wasn't meant to canon them - literally soured Milkvan for watchers.

So did season 4 of Stranger Things 'make' or 'break' Byler? It efing made it man.

#stranger things #byler #stranger things 4 #byler is endgame #will byers #mike wheeler #byler is real #byeler #byler is canon #st4 #byler proof #byler nation #byler tumblr #byler analysis #byler theory #byler thoughts

[chirpsythismorning]

Did you see the Piggyback script dropped?? Thoughts?

The script is pretty much what I expected. If Mike's monologue had won out on the writer's twitter polls last summer, it would have looked the exact same and even back then I would have felt the same as I do now.

They knew that this script would be available to the public when they submitted it for an Emmy. They knew fans would be running to find out the 'truth'. I highly doubt they would release a script that revealed El's true feelings about the monologue, on a random afternoon, still almost 2 years before that reveal. That would diminish all of the work they put into keeping this surprise under-wraps. If they had released a script that gave away El's true feelings, the jig would be up, there would be no room for people to speculate about milkvan or byler anymore. Byler would clearly be endgame from the perspective of everyone if they had revealed that El was upset with what Mike said, including milkvans. S5 would have been spoiled with still 2 years of waiting left. And so, why would they do that?

Something I also want to point out, is that the script that the supporting cast/crew get, has to be bare bones to avoid leaks.

The leaks that tend to come out in the cases that they do, are from folks that are working below the line. Basic BTL employees sometimes have to have access to scripts in order to perform their duties.

And so a revelation that El was not happy with Mike's monologue, being written blatantly in the script, then being given to up to 100 people, poses a huge risk of a leak.

They want the audience to finish s4 believing that Mike's monologue was everything El wanted to hear and that they are now back together with no problems. That's indisputable. And so having their script contradict that, in a season that has no intention of addressing it, would be very confusing for everyone casually working BTL involved, who are being fed one story publicly and seeing a completely different thing on paper.

When it comes to the Duffers though, they definitely have a script that includes all those details that dozens upon dozens of BTL are not going to have access to.

Here's what I mean:

You'll notice that Matt is holding a script here that says Matt Duffer in big block letters across it.

There would be no need to have this big display of this script belonging to Matt, as like a watermark on literally every page, unless what's on it is unique and it's important that no one else has access to it.

It also makes sense he would need to give Noah and Finn pointers on the spot in the moment, considering a lot of Mike and Will's scenes have a record for having little to no details in the script, making it come off like every interaction between them is unscripted and impromptu. And while I do think Noah and Finn are fully capable of some in the moment ideas, I highly doubt every single scene between Will and Mike is improvised.

Considering what scene this is in this picture, I'm gonna guess Matt was reminding them of the knee tap here, which I doubt was in the script that the dozens of BTL got that day. For example, according to the piggyback script, the byler shoulder grab was unscripted... But really was it? They wrote that scene to parallel with the s2 super-spy scene and so they knew that original scene ended with a hand hold... I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the Duffers (and even probably Noah/Finn's) scripts included it, but the scripts with bare bone details given to random PA's didn't have it...

I would assume at best that the Duffers, directors, the handful of officials at the very top managing each department, and the main cast have a way different script than what the hundreds of average crew members are getting.

This is also something that would allow them to pinpoint who leaked things. Because if a script with a Matt Duffer watermark got leaked, they'd know that whoever had access to that script, less than a handful of people at most, would had to have leaked it. But considering those people are probably very very trusted by the Duffers, that would never happen.

And so they can sit comfortably knowing that any leaks that happen, are not going to have all the details that relate to things they don't want fans to get too close to figuring out right now, least of all the entire audience. Because they give out those bare bones scripts, knowing that they could be leaked, and so they avoid those details with full awareness of the worst case scenario.

I will say, something that really stood out to me though about this script is that SOOOOOO much ended up being different on screen than what it originally was in the script... Like entire scenes are either missing or there are scenes that aren't even in there that ended up being added the day of it seems (I guess originally Jonathan and Nancy were going to be on the roof?). Which just goes to show that the writing process never stops, least of all during the filming process. It's there constantly. If an actor wants to change the wording of a line or if they want to go about a scene differently, a writer needs to be there to green-light it.

Another thing that had me cackling after reading fans thoughts about the script on Reddit, was how some were acknowledging that Nancy's feelings about the situation between Steve and Jonathan were sort of missing (her POV), and everyone agreed that it was probably to keep the love triangle uncertainty up in the air...

All I could think was DAMN! These Wheelers!!... I'm sure if I even presented the comparison they would deny it, despite being able to recognize it in the script for Nancy. Just like they're willing to recognize that Jancy/Stancy is a love triangle, but are incapable of acknowledging that Byler/Milkvan is as well.

With roughly 2 years left until ST5 is gracing our screens, and with filming not even having started yet, us bylers need to realize that this back and forth of validating both sides won't be put to a stop officially any time soon.

While that might be hard to hear, the good news is that they're gonna continue to create uncertainty for both sides, including milkvans.

Because the reality is, byler isn't queerbait because they have every intention of following through with it. And so that means stuff that constitutes as bait will continue, bc for them it's just literally foreshadowing.

And so when s5 is really starting to approach and posters drop and we see yet again that Mike and Will are being paired up in promo... It's gonna be hard for milkvans to insist this isn't queerbait anymore. And it's gonna be hard for them to insist none of it means anything when they fully expected to go into s5 with little to no byler interactions and with Mike and El being in love and in their endgame fluff era...

In the mean time, get ready for uncertainty if you're already at risk of byler doubt. Just remember that all of the evidence in the show doesn't evaporate bc they want to keep fans guessing during hiatus. They don't want anyone to feel 100% certain right now. If anyone is, best believe that they're ready to throw something in the mix sooner than later that will inspire doubt. And it'll continue to go back and forth like that until right before s5 drops.

#byler #st scripts #the piggyback #mike's monologue #again I want to say that noah and finn are talented #but lets be real #there's no way ALL of their scenes are mostly improvised #a lot of what they do is DIRECTED by the DIRECTOR on the day of the shoot #and while it is a collaborative process with the actors being able to give their input in the moment #they need somewhere to start to even make those changes