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linkspooky · 1 year

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Choso: Human or Curse?

One more meta for chapter 208, Choso's discussionYuki in the chapter bring up a question asked to us again and again by the plot of Jujutsu Kaisen? What exactly is a curse? What is a human? If curses have human intelligence does that make them more or less human? Fascinating questions all of these but for Choso it's a question of his existence itself, him being a human curse hybrid. Let's discuss this idea of humans and curses underneath the cut.

1. An Allegory Within the Dark

If you're looking for how much of Choso is human and how much is a curse, you could go the biological route. After all, Choso's true form is an aborted fetus. He wouldn't even have a body if Mahito had not stuck him in another person's body.

Choso is paradoxically, the oldest of nine brothers but he was never truly born. He is once again an aborted fetus. Presumably, Kenjaku made him either by ripping him out of his mother's womb before he was done, or he was a miscarriage at nine months, either way everything about his birth is unnatural and wrong, he even lives with the knowledge that he was only created because his mother was violated and experimented on. You could go so far as to say that the nine brothers are sort of a manifestation of their mother's "curse" towards the man who violated her.

Choso is human in the fact that unlike other cursed spirits, Choso has a physical body, and can interact with the world around him. Mahito for instance, despite being perhaps the most humanlike curse does not have a physical body and cannot be seen by non-sorcerers, whereas Choso can manifest in a physical body (even if it's not his own body), he can be seen by people, if you cut him he will bleed.

Mahito in fact provides a contrast to Choso, they are so different they may as well be opposites, Mahito is someone who strives to be a true curse whereas for Choso it is ambiguous and unknown to himself whether he is a curse or a human. Mahito if anything shares that ambiguity between his true nature of being a curse or being a human with Choso, because Mahito was created specifically not from the fears of natural forces, but the fears human beings have of each other.

Mahito is also the curse most curious about human emotions and human life, again unlike Jogo, Hanami and Dagon who are pure natural forces, Mahito watches human movies and reads human books as shown in his short story in he light novel.

For Mahito, who analyzed human souls through books and movies, this old man’s knowledge and conversation helped in its own way. When do humans get angry? Why do they grieve? How do they trust and in what ways are they betrayed? Mahito lived with a different sense of ethics compared to humans, so there were many things he struggled to interpret.

Mahito is literally created by human emotions, but he doesn't understand them and just like Choso he is effectively an outsider looking in, an alien in a society of human beings who understands nothing about them, to the point where they may as well be speaking an incomprehensible foreign language. They both make opposite choices however, Choso imitates humans and their relationships to one another by treating him and his brothers esentially like a normal human family, whereas Mahito destroys Junpei the one human he ever got close to, and then goes even further and tries to become something entirely inhuman.

In Mahito's mind the fights between humans and curses isn't a battle between good and evil, but rather a war where two different species are essentially fighting for what side will dominate the other.

If you go by Mahito's logic not only is being a curse not human, but it's at war with being human, Mahito defines himself as being not-human but can't leave it alone at that he also has to be the antithesis of humanity by making himself the polar opposite of Yuji, someone who slaughters humans without a thought the same way Yuji saves.

Mahito is made of human emotoins yet his desire is to be "a true curse" going so far as to want to essentially purify human emotions from himself, believing the only way he can be reborn as something more like a curse is to kill Yuji first someone who reminds him so much of himself. Why does Mahito want to go so far? I think he's driven to such extremes by fear. Remember, Mahito is made up of human emotions, he's created by fear, specifically the fear humans have for each other. When he loses to Yuji, that is what he's revealed to be. Afraid. A fleeing rabbit when he thought himself a wolf.

Mahito also reacts strangely when a human he thought it was safe to be around, a blind homeless man who gave up on life and therefore, did not really express any sort of emotions or attachment to the world, started to express a single emotion near his death.

Being able to make sure of that with his own two eyes, Mahito felt considerably relieved. In the same way he would watch a flower wither and fall, he observed the old man’s death.

Nevertheless…

“Jii-san?”

He had a feeling.

It’s like seeing a plot twist you don’t want to see if you keep turning the pages of a book.

Or like knowing the contents of a present before you open it.

That kind of buzz spread through Mahito’s chest.

While he puzzled over the instinctive alarm bells screaming at him to stop watching, everything was heading toward its end.

“…I thought I would die alone.”

The old man’s soul dimly flickered.

A smile was on his swollen face.

“…To have someone… here to witness this old fool’s last moments…”

The flicker might have been insignificant, like a single drop breaking the water’s surface. Even so, for an instant near death, at the end of it all…

The old man’s soul ‘metabolized’.

“…Tha…nk… y…”

The old man died smiling.

“…”

Mahito’s eyes opened wide, and for a moment, he was frozen.

He thought the old man was different when compared to other humans. To Mahito, he seemed unfettered.

Mahito thought the unique philosophical views stemming from such an extraordinary state of mind had freed him from all the shackles of this world.

But despite all of that, the old man was still captured right in his last moments.

On the brink of death, he clung to someone else so he could avoid a lonely end.

The old man was only human.

For a human, it was likely satisfying enough. Perhaps it was even the proper way for one to die.

“…”

Mahito said nothing.

Mahito's disappointed, almost downright disturbed by the human emotion the man shows in his final moments. This makes sense in regards to the way much stronger curses like Sukuna view human emotions, Sukuna calls the desires Jogo, Hanami and Mahito had to work together as a weakness.

Ishigori later on says that true strength is overhwelming aggression that disregards all else like a calamity. Therefore Mahito's, and also Sukuna's philosophy seems to be by ridding themselves of any human emotoins, they also rid themselves of any weak points and vulnerability in order to grow stronger. Which once again we return now to Choso, who says something incredibly similiar when he gives the reason why he chose to live as a curse at first.

He was too afraid to see his two younger brothers suffer as human beings, instead of dominating and killing everything in their path like a curse would. Yet, when he met Yuji he realized that Yuji was someone who was a hybrid much like him, but could choose to suffer and keep trying to live as a human. At that point Choso makes his mistake he tried to live as Mahito did, as Sukuna did. He tried to be like a curse, a calamity, someone who hurts others without thinking in order to prove how strong they were, yet in doing so he left Yuji all alone.

The super curse brothers clearly are meant to use their abilities together as a team, Choso can draw strength from his younger brothers and imitate them, and Yuji someone who insists on fighting alone could have had all three of them fighting alone as implacable allies.

Choso is a much more sympathetic character than Mahito, and yet he made the same choices earlier on in his arc, during Shibuya he essentially slaughtered people en masse both because the world of curses that Fake-Geto promised them was a place it would be easier to live than trying to survive among human beings. Mahito is frightened of human beings and human emotions themselves, wheras Choso is frightened of their rejection.

Choso is also not the perfect big brother he strives to be, he is weak moreoften then he is strong, Yuki points out right away that if he believed living as a curse was taking the easy way out and living as a human is the right choice then by choosing to die now he's taking the easy way out once more. Once again his wish to die is away of protecting himself, number one he will no longer have to feel the crushing force of his guilt, nor the sting of being alone, number two he won't have to do the hard work of living to atone for what he has done.

In that way Yuji and Choso are truly brothers, because Choso is now reflecting Yuji's worst tendency, despite the fact Choso believes Yuji is trying to live as a human he's really not, since the start of his arc Yuji has more or less been looking for the quickest exit out of this life.

How can Choso expect Yuji to do the work of continuing to live, if he's not even willing to do that? Which is utlimately I think, the difference between living as a curse and living as a human. As I said at the beginning of this post, unlike curses that are invisible tot he human eye, Choso has a physical body, he can be seen by people, he can reach out and touch people, if you cut him he bleeds. If living and dying as a curse is taking the easy way out, then the most difficult thing of all would be for Choso to just try to live in this world. Which is ultimately what he must do, for Yuji's sake, and for his own.

#jjk 208 #jujutsu kaisen 208 #jjk 208 spoilers #yuji itadori #choso #mahito #true human #curses #jjk meta #jujutsu kaisen theory #jujutsu kaisen meta #jujutsu kaisen analysis #culling games #yuki tsukumo #kenjaku

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satorugojowidow · 1 year

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Gege you can’t go around pretending these panels never existed. Is not only because of her possible death, it’s because she was downgraded from a character that seemed to be carrying on her own agenda and having a plan, to a passive character that just did what was asked without going further.

#i demand justice #jjk spoilers #yuki tsukumo #jjk 207 #jjk 208

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11queensupreme11 · 1 year

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JJK 208 SPOILERS!

Hold on hold on.... You’re telling me Yuki’s black hole could’ve wiped out the whole planet if it weren’t for her holding back and Tengen’s barrier?!?!?!

THAT’S SO FUCKING OP????

Bruh, Gojo and Sukuna are supposed to be the strongest in this series so whatever powers they have better top Yuki’s planetary feat or I’ll be unimpressed 😩

#Jujutsu Kaisen #jujutsu kaisen spoilers #jjk 208 #yuki tsukumo #sukuna #Gojo

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niorrrr · 1 year

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Black hole survivor

Twitter

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shownusfool · 1 year

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is yuki alive? idk. did i understand much of the chapter and what happened? no. did i see that choso and yuki were at the bar together in formal wear and assume they were having a date? yes. merry christmas.

#I DONT KNOW WHATS GOING ON SO IM GOING TO CLUNG ONTO WHAT IT IS THAT I UNDERSTAND #chosoyuki #PLEASE BE ALIVE YOURE TOO COOL AND HOT #jkk spoilers #jjk 208 #yhey cool first half of the chapter where choco and yuki go on a christmas bar date and become emotionally intimate with one another hahahah

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makinations · 1 year

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gege is wrong actually because all 6’2 women are immortal and will never die

#jjk 208 #jjk manga spoilers #jjk spoilers #jujutsu kaisen #yuki tsukumo

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epickiya722 · 1 month

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Kenjaku would be the type to blast a hole through Yuki and then turn around and laugh at Tengen because they kinda look like Sukuna.

#why are you like this?#just kiya's thoughts #jjk #jujutsu kaisen #jjk 208 #jjk manga spoilers #jjk spoilers #kenjaku #kenjaku jjk #tengen #tengen jjk

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just-sp-in-inginthevoid · 1 year

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... and on your right you can see two they/them who got divorced more than one thousand years ago...—

#jjk #jujutsu kaisen #jjk spoilers #jjk leaks #jjk 208 #jjk kenjaku #kenjaku #jjk tengen #happy to learn more about the 1000+ y/o characters

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cursedvibes · 1 year

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Okay so first things first, I don't mind Yuki dying. She was in a clash of ideals with Kenjaku and Kenjaku ended up winning. I kind of expected that because Gege seems out for chaos and carnage re overall plot. My problem is that her death revolved entirely around Choso. Why did she need to die for him to be able to live on as a human? I get that her plan was to kill Kenjaku who's responsible for the curse side of him but girl, this is your fight. The fate of the world and jujutsu society literally depends on it. Focus on the important stuff. Sorry, but Choso's identity crisis is not important right now.

Now for the stuff I liked about this fight aka Yuki and Kenjaku's entire dynamic.

Their chosen techniques match each other so well. Mass vs (anti) Gravity. The matter of stars vs the force manipulating them. It is so fitting that Kenjaku used Kaori's technique to fight her (a true milf v milf fight) and only survived relatively unscathed because they used anti-gravity, the only thing able to break away from a dying star, on their body. Kaori herself must have left a huge impression on Kenjaku for them to choose to remember her technique and not for example Noritoshi's blood manipulation. I'm very glad she wasn't revealed to be from some big clan but seemingly just had a unique ability. Like with the Culling Game players, Kenjaku consistently chooses to elevate unusual techniques and people over the established clans and higher-ups. Their ideal world fluctuates and changes with the times and does not compromise for traditions or old bloodlines.

I'm sad that Yuki had to resort to these methods, but at least she could take down the Star Corridor with her. She separated the rope holding Tengen's tree together and also erased Riko's bloodstains with her. It's not the same as the world she imagined but at least she could take down the system that exploited her and the Star Plasma Vessels before her. Her technique is written as "Wrath of the Star(s)" and it's final form is capable of destroying the whole world with it if left unchecked. It is a very good representation of the mentality a Star Plasma Vessel could easily fall into. They are created to have their personhood erased. It is only natural that that would foster resentment on some level, against the system and even against the whole world which seems to be sworn against them. Yuki managed to hold onto a vision that would improve society but I'm sure, deep underneath she still has that hatred, amplified by hearing the voices of the previous vessels, and this would have been her trump card if she ever decided to kill Tengen for what she did to her and her people. She literally becomes a dying star and turns everything compromising The Star (Tengen) against them. I would really like to know what the merged ones have to say to all this. If they are happy for her, that she could die on her own terms or maybe want Kenjaku to succeed because at least that means change and would result in almost as much destruction as the Black Hole.

The structure of the fight was really well done. Yuki enters the fight when Kenjaku resorts to Gravity for the first time, i.e. they enter the world of stars and subjugate themselves to the rules of the Star Tomb. You have a push and pull between gravity and mass, all surrounding the brightness of the star. When the star is close to dying (applies to Yuki but also Tengen), it's mass collapses in on itself and uses the force of gravity against the world around it, sucking in everything with it. In the end, Kenjaku was only able to survive because they broke the system and removed themselves from rules the stars are subjugated to by using anti-gravity. That's why their body is unharmed while Yuki's collapsed in on itself due to it's own mass.

I've seen some copium going around along the lines of "Yuki is still alive, she could still merge with Tengen". No. I much prefer her going out on her own terms like this than her surviving only to subjugate herself to Tengen's will. Tengen has to go no matter what. While Yuki doesn't share Kenjaku's vision, she still wants a world free from cursed energy and thereby Tengen. She contributed to that. Not in the way she wanted to or planned, but it's better than following the "fate" Tengen gave her when she was born.

Nonetheless, I feel that there could've been done more with Yuki and Kenjaku's dynamic. We only ever got one conversation between Yuki and Tengen about her being a Star Plasma Vessel and in the actual fight it never came up. When she and Kenjaku were sizing each other up, she could've explained her side of the story a bit more. Why she wants to break away from cursed energy and how she plans to do that (something about Maki but we never got any details... maybe later, she must've told someone like Larue e.g. about her plans). We might get more information later through flashbacks, but it would've just been better to have her say it here. While the fight might've been to show that her plan isn't a viable option, I still would want to know more about it before it is crushed. It makes Kenjaku's win more meaningful too. Her final thoughts/words would've been the perfect moment to lay her ideology bare and say everything she always wanted to say to Tengen. One last fuck you. We got it in her actions by destroying the tomb but there could've been done so much more.

#jujutsu kaisen #jjk spoilers #tsukumo yuki #kenjaku #jjk 208

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linkspooky · 1 year

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Jujustu Kaisen, Chapter 208 Thoughts

Well, this is a shocker. Though maybe we should have expected that Tengen and Kenjaku knew each other in the old world, because Tengen knew so much about Kenjaku's original name and motivations, Kenjaku's remark that he's lived a thousand years in the world while Tengen has lived outside of it, and the fact they act like bitchy exes towards one another. So anyway here's some thoughts on the Kenjaku and Tengen divorce , and the foiling between them.

1. The Strongest Duo

The place my midn jumped right away was there's a possible comparison in Kenjaku's relationship with Tengen, to the breakdown of Geto and Gojo's friendship. One aspect of their relationship that is often overlooked, is that the both of them have superiority complexes (in fact borderline God Complex's).

I like to reference @causticwit's post when talking about Gojo's god complex and the way he views himself in comparison to normies.

gojou 100% has a god complex and thats why getous downfall hit him harder than anyone else. he saw himself and getou as above everyone else and exempt from ‘regular’ peoples flaws, he never thought either of them could be led astray and when getou finally snaps hes bewildered that something like that could ever happen to either of them. hes not just heartbroken over his best friend becoming an enemy, hes thrown for a loop because getou, the one person he thinks of as just as above everyone else and incapable of failing as he is, could ever do something wrong, could ever be wrong. hes finally put into a position where he has to face the fact that hes just as capable of screwing up as anyone else and he can’t make sense of it. gojous hesitance in killing getou isn’t just a byproduct of their friendship, it’s also him realizing that it could have easily been him on the other side of the conflict, which breaks the illusion of him being better than everyone for a second.

One of the core parts of Gojo and Geto's relationship is because they were special grades at such a young age, they both believe being the strongest makes them above other people. They just start out with radically different ideas about what that means, or what that obligates them too. It's literally in their introduction.

Gojo comes to Utahime's rescue and then immediately mocks her for needing help. Geto then intervenes and scolds Gojo for picking on someone weaker than him, and it seems like he's standing up for her but really he's just looking down on her too by labeling her as weak because Geto just has another brand of superiority complex.

Afterwards, they forget to put the curtain up and get lectured for it. Gojo complains post lecture that they shouldn't even need to put a curtain up to keep the Jujutsu World seperate from normal people. In this argument their difference in opinion is established, Gojo doesn't see any responsibility in being strong, whereas Geto believes that strong people are obligated to protect the weak for noblesse oblige reasons. Whereas, Gojo sees no such obligation to be responsible.

Even if they disagree on what they are responsible for by being above others, they both think they are fundamentally above other people because of their power as Jujutsu Sorcerers. Geto's trouble throughout the entire arc is whether Non-sorcerers are worth protecting in the first place, seeing as Jujutsu Sorcerers have to continually die and young ages at that to protect a population that is oblivious to their suffering. Geto didn't believe in protecting other people out of the goodness of his heart, he believed having more power than other people, being in a superior position obligated him to protecting others.

When we see Geto in Jujutsu Kaisen Zero trying to make an argument for his position, he's dropped all pretense about this and straight up preeches that Jujutsu Sorcerers are inherently superior, humans who can't use jujutsu are lesser, and Geto himself has developed a god complex to rival Gojo's. He's even like, the leader of a religion and dressed up in monks robes it's not subtle.

Whereas, Gojo is now a follower of Geto's teaching, ironically because Geto reached out to him in that moment and stopped the slaughter of hundreds of people who were clapping for Riko's death. Gojo now believes that he should use his powers for a reason, whereas before he believed "applying reasoning and responsibility to jujutsu sorcerers is what weak people do."

All of this to say, since Gojo and Geto is two different flavors of two incredibly strong sorcerers who develop a god/superiority complex that they think puts them above all other people, who then have a falling out over their differences, this makes them a pretty clear parallel to Kenjaku and Tengen.

2. Marvel's The Immortals

To an even more extreme extent, Kenjaku and Tengen have left all of their humanity behind.

They are both two different versions of a 1000+ year old being, who has transcended death. They both have themes of evolution pertaining to their characters.

Tengen is referred to have evolved to the point where the entire world became himself. They're so connected to the world if they didn't control himself and seal himself in a barrier they would erase the boundaries between individuals. They're more cursed spirit than human being as well.

Kenjaku even mocks them for their physical appearance, their four eyed face makes them resemble Sukuna, who was also just a normal sorcerer to begin with and amassed so much power they evolved into an even more terrifying cursed spirit.

Tengen is then therefore someone who has seperated themselves entirely from their humanity and left it behind, they live completely outside of society barriered away from it. They even announced that they cannot read the human heart (though that could be a lie, because apparently they knew each other beforehand back when they were still humans).

Kenjaku also, has removed himself from humanity. Rather than Kenjaku himself evolving he is instead trying to force humanity around him to the next stage so that he can observe it. Tengen is the one who evolves, Kenjaku wants other people to evolve.

They both take an observational role, witnessing humans and sorcerers pass by them for a thousand years. They both cheat death and escape the usual limits of mortality in order to continue their existence. They both also seem far removed from human emotions, when Choso tries to interrogate Kenjaku about a motive for his actions he responds "Lol, why not?"

Considering Kenjaku either doesn't care, or doesn't seem to understand why Choso would be so upset with him for his bad parenting it's safe to say Kenjaku understands the human heart about as well as Tengen does. Relationships are entirely transactional for Kenjaku, he only cares what he can get out of people or what benefit he can reap, so he only understands people so far as how he can use them.

The biggest difference between the two of them however, si that Tengen is someone who has completely removed themselves outside of humanity. Tengen left all of society behind to go meditate on a mountain somewhere. Kenjaku throws himself into the center of conflict, he strikes deals with sorcerers from the various eras in order to bring his plans to being. Tengen is entirely passive and seems to obey fate or even believe fate exists, Kenjaku is entirely active, battles against fate and order in order to try to create chaos and change.

However, they are both essentially still appraoching the world from the same point of view, Tengen manages the barriers, and the order and stability of the world for Jujutsu Sorcerers because they are stronger than everyone else and immortal. The fact that they sacrificed young girls in order to perserve their own lifespan, rather than trying to kill themselves if their evolution was such a threat to the world shows they think they are more worthy of living. Kenjaku also tries to control the world because they believe they are inherently superior and knowledgable, they just try to push the world towards change rather than maintain the world as it was beforehand.

This chapter also plays with the idea of "Living as a human" and "Living as a curse." Choso himself believes that living as a curse was taking the easy way out, because he was scared it would have been harder for him and his brothers to live amongst humans because of possible rejections.

In this sense weakness is openness to vulnerability and exposing yourself to the possibility of pain. They could live as strong curses unafraid of society's rejection, or they could try to live within society but have to cope with the fact that humans and Jujutsu Society would probably not accept them entirely, which is a painful way to live but not completely impossible.

Choso choosing to live as a curse was in a way his attempt to protect them and spare them that pain, even though he himself admits he was treating them like they were weak and couldn't survive people looking down on them.

He also mentions if he had chosen to live as a human to begin with, Yuji would be fighting together with three brothers isntead of being isolated and alone. Which is the inherent benefit of living as a human, you're able to form close relationships with people. Ironically, their superiority complexes is what destroys Gojo and Geto's relationship because they can't emotionally support each other as friends, and is implied to have destroyed Kenjaku and Tengen's too.

Kenjaku tells Yuki to die as a human. Associating "death" with "humanity" implies that by surpassing death, both Kenjaku and Tengen have surpassed humanity itself. However, just like Choso's belief that living as a curse was taking the easy way out because they didn't have to try living with humans and spared themselves the pain, then aren't Kenjaku and Tengen also choosing the easy way? By trying to be curses, or something beyond human rather than human beings, they've completely denied any human vulnerability. They may be strong physically, but they're completely incapable of any kind of connections. They are entirely alone, both see themselves as above people, but their lives are empty and meaningless, Tengen doesn't do anything but watch, Kenjaku does everything he does for incredibly stupid and superfluous reasons. What I'm saying is, they're both losers. That's the takeaway at the end of the day.

#geto suguru #gojo satoru #kenjaku #tengen #jjk 208 #jujutsu kaisen 208 spoilers #jujutsu kaisen 208 #jjk 208 spoilers #jujutsu kaisen meta #jjk meta #jujutsu kaisen theory

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