#it’s been obvious since season two that will has a thing for mike and mike doesn’t share those feelings that’s not queerbaiting | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

alcalystrasz · 3 months

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(This has been said a lot but idc)

He loses his bestfriend, he's destroyed and he cries because he thinks he's dead and he's going to blame himself because he'll think it's his fault. The song in the background is Heroes. And the lyrics, at this precise moment are:

"And we kissed, as though nothing could fall. And the shame, [changing to Joyce and Jonathan] the shame was on the other side."

Which is a clear queer coding. That means that Mike and Will kissed (= spent time together, very close) as though nothing could fall (= nothing could go wrong), and the shame (= of being gay) was on the other side (= the Upside Down, where Will is. Because he's the obvious gay one). And it changed to Joyce and Jonathan because they're Will's family.

And now, let's skip to Season 3:

This hug, from end of season 3 is a clear parallel of the first one we saw on season 1. His face isn't obviously the same. In season 1, we can see he's sad, crying and he hugs his mom desperately. But season 3, shows a confused, emotionless Mike who hugs his mother like he's in shock. Why's that? Well...

The parallel is to show Mike's feelings. In the end of season 3, when El kisses Mike, his eyes are wide open, he doesn't move and when she's done and leaves he doesn't move, instead he looks on the side with a super confused and shocked face. And in the original script (sorry couldn't find it), we saw that Mike's reaction was like this because it was written:

What is wrong with me?

So it was meant for him to be that way (and btw Finn played it well). And then, when Hopper reads his letter to El, we can hear his voice with scenes showing up. And when he says:

"And if I'm being really honest, I don't want things to change."

Mike looks back at Will's house before leaving with his bike.

This is a lowkey queer coding. Change is the liking boys realization from Mike's side. And why Hopper says "I don't want things to change" ? Because the change means the behavior change for Mike. He'll feel like a mistake, just like Will, he'll feel different, incapable of liking a girl like every other boys his age...

So what I'm trying to say is. That these two scenes are parallels to show Mike's improvement and changement over the seasons. Season 1 he was sad because of the loss of his bestfriend. But why would we only see Mike's POV and not Dustin's or Lucas' ? They also cared about Will. No, we only see Mike's because he's Will's love interest. And in Season 3 we see a total confused Mike hugging his mother, trying to understand what happened. Because what happened is that he understood, he finally admitted he was in love with Will. Why's that? Well, first he's confused by El's I love you, and kiss. Then he looks back at Will's house, knowing he just left. And finally he hugs his mom trying to figure out what's wrong with him. Cause he thinks there's something wrong with him, as seen in the script (try to find it yourself, cause I couldn't. But I remember sawing it on Twitter 'X' !). And it's even more possible because Mike's introduction in season 4, has a lot of queer coding. I'll try to list them all.

Rainbows on the letter (= signifies lgbtq+), One Way arrow pointing to an open closet (= one way arrow -> "only possible thing/explanation", open closet -> he's out to himself), Poster with a naked Dragon (= just like Steve or Billy, straight boys, have, almost naked women, on their walls, Mike has almost naked character, men and animals from dnd), poster from a movie with an almost naked man (= to understand he likes them naked, just a gay thing I guess ;-;). For this last point, yes there's also a woman almost naked, however since the movie is about men, being way superior to women (that's the movie don't blame me, and I can't remember its name, sorry), I'm not sure he'd really want to have this woman in particular in his room.

Also there's one of Will's binder under his bed, the same one where there are tons of his drawings and finally, I'd like to end up with Mike literally destroying El's letter when Nancy tells him he's late (who does that?). So yeah that's all I could find, there's probably more, which needs more attention and analysis but I did the minimum let's say.

So all of this, to say that season 1 and 3 hugs were parallels of Mike's feelings, and that the season 3's is more possible when we notice the character introduction of Mike in season 4. So yeah, he really had a Gay realization over there!

#stranger things #finn wolfhard #byler #love #noah schnapp #byler is canon #byler tumblr #mike wheeler #will byers #byler is endgame #byler nation #byler proof #byler parallels

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mikesbasementbeets · 2 years

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this is gonna be long, but i want to explain why i think mike wheeler is gay

we all know mike is queer, i'm not gonna try to prove that he wants to kiss boys (because duh), i want to look at the things that indicate mike is specifically gay, not bi - the relevant difference being, in mike's case, attraction to women. in my opinion, the show is full of evidence that points to mike's specific brand of queerness being not only attraction to men but also lack of attraction to women. (which is why i'm writing this, i just think there's so much textually in the show that backs it up) i'm mostly going to focus on his dynamic with el, but i want to make it really clear first that i love el, and i believe mike really does love el too, just not in the way he thinks he should. his arc is about realizing that the love he feels for el is not romantic (while the love he feels for will is).

romantic ambivalence towards el

this has been rehashed so much since the season 4 monologue, but the way mike talks about el when they first find her in the woods, about sending her back to the asylum, handing her over to mike's parents, and getting her out of the way so they could focus on will, and then later calling her a weapon and using her to find will... this is not love. obviously

he starts feeling protective over her when she confides in him that she's in real danger - mike is naturally protective, he’s the paladin of the group, and because she's under his care, he feels responsible for her safety, defending her even from dustin and lucas. he develops a bond with her. however... nothing about this is romantic. the duffers compare their relationship dynamic this season to elliot and E.T., but alongside mike, the audience is told (by everyone except mike himself... he can never seem to get the words out. more on that later) that mike likes eleven... so we start to believe it

there are so many analyses of mike being the one targeted by the homophobic bullies (and we know why - mike is queer). but more than that, the very first time the idea of mike and eleven as a romantic pair is introduced in the show, the scene is interrupted by the homophobes. while lucas is imitating mike professing his love to eleven, troy show ups and starts talking about will, using homophobic language to provoke the party, particularly mike, and then tripping mike as he tries to get away from them. it's the juxtaposition of these two ideas: mike being teased by his friends for possibly liking el vs. mike facing homophobic bullying

anyway, before the bullies show up, when Lucas starts teasing mike about the way he's been acting with el, mike doesn't get it (and he continues not to get it throughout the series... this is a theme), and lucas has to spell it out for him. it's so obvious mike, you like her.

a few episodes later though, lucas actually calls bullshit on himself -

"you like that a girl's not grossed out by you."

it's not that either of them actually like each other but, as lucas says, and as is repeated by mike and others several times, "she's like a stray dog." they're both using each other, mike to find will, and el for safety and protection (not that this is necessarily bad on either of their parts, it's just not romantic)

later, almost immediately after finding out about el, nancy asks mike if he likes her. (a boy and a girl? oh, they must like each other.) mike's response is a very adamant "ew, no, gross."

this scene is interesting to me because you could take it several ways: nancy lies about not liking jonathan, so then mike lies about not liking eleven... (which is still fine, he may think he does at this point) but i actually think it's more than that. season 3 shows us a mike that associates growing up with liking girls. and before eleven, mike hasn't ever liked a girl. at this point, he's still in the mindset that it's okay for him to not like girls "yet." and if he tells the truth so vehemently that nancy must think he's lying... he's probably ok with that (lucas is right, he likes that a girl's not grossed out by him... and he likes the idea of other people thinking that too... maybe it makes him feel like he's growing up, or like other people think he's growing up. idk though that's just speculation).

soon after this scene with nancy is the scene where mike tells el that when this is all over, she can move into his house and his parents will take care of her. genuinely... he was imagining his family adopting her... his sister would be her sister, his parents would be her parents, she could even have his old bedroom

and then she asks if that means he would be her brother... and he realizes something's not right (honestly though i don't think he even understands where it went wrong at this point).

he was feeling a protective big brother type of love for this scared, lost kid he found in the woods, but when everyone started assuming he "liked" her, it all started getting confused in his head. he assumes he must like her, because he's been conditioned his whole life to think that's just what happens (it's classic comp het!!!)

you could argue that he did really have a crush on el, but just never fell in love with her, but i think the far more logical, narrative based explanation for it is compulsory heterosexuality and internalized homophobia... he was told by all his friends and family that he must have feelings for this girl, so he believed them and tried to act accordingly.... but here's the thing. he has never ever gotten the hang of it

extreme discomfort with expressing romantic feelings toward el

mike's storyline in season 4 was entirely centered around his inability to have an open, honest conversation with his girlfriend. specifically, a conversation about their feelings toward each other. honestly, it's about time el called mike out for this. ever since their first kiss in season 1, every time he has had a moment alone with el, (except for their makeout scenes in s3 i guess... but he's kissed her to avoid using his words before. their first kiss.) mike has tried, struggled, and ultimately failed to voice his romantic intentions or inclinations toward el. (and if we know one thing about mike..... he hates lying)

it's such a pattern that it seems obvious to me that the nature of mike's feelings toward el have not changed over the course of their relationship. even the first time, when he tries to explain that he wouldn't be like her brother because..... that would be weird. why, mike?

he is talking around telling her that he likes her, which... fair enough, honestly. he's hinting at it and trying to get her to understand, and i mean, it's hard to tell someone you like them. and like, he's 12. this is fine

but it's about the context. and it's about the pattern

mike is constantly trying to explain how he feels about el, but he keeps putting it in a romantic framework, and that's his problem. it isn't romantic. it never has been. so he can never find the right words, because the ones he thinks are supposed to fit don't feel right, and mike doesn't want to lie to el. friends don't lie

this discomfort also extends to other expressions of romance, like kissing

🧍🏻 yes, he makes out with her a lot in season 3, but like... he's in way too deep at that point. this is heteronormativity and comp het at it's peak. el is his girlfriend (and they're months into their relationship atp), he's a 14yo boy with a heterosexual facade to keep up, and like, kissing is a fun way to pass the time... (it's better than spending it idk talking and finally getting to know each other, right?) and there's also that drawing of will behind her and the way he moves her hands away like he doesn't want her to touch him... idk seems kinda gay to me

......and then there's this

just like in the season 1 scene, with lucas' teasing cut short by the bullies, it's about the juxtaposition. mike's scene with will, followed by an intimate jancy moment, and then this. el kissing mike while he stands (eyes open) in front of a closet (in will's room), the light inside it lit up over his head. i really think this scene is a big moment in mike's realization of what he's feeling, and what he has been feeling. (one of many... he is just constantly being struck with how gay he is in season 4) the coding of this scene cannot just be about mike simply not having romantic feelings for el specifically, (or about it having started as a real crush that just didn't develop further or something). his absolute indifference to el, a girl (the girl he supposedly likes), kissing him is what is making him realize his queerness... which means that part of his queer revelation is disinterest in girls. they're showing us with every narrative technique in the book that mike doesn't have romantic feelings toward girls.

speaking of which

truly, what is this about if it's not mike projecting... what else could this mean (yes, sure, it could mean a lot of things, and maybe they really did mean it more like "yet," but they chose this line. it's way too on the nose to not mean this: mike doesn't like girls.)

it's about a lot more than el. she just happens to be the unfortunate one in the role of "mike wheeler's girlfriend" (she truly deserves so much more). throughout season 3 we're shown over and over again mike's romantic ineptitude with el. lucas, still assuming mike's romantic feelings toward her, spends a good amount of time this season literally walking mike through how to interact with his girlfriend. mike simply doesn't get it. still.

it doesn't feel natural to mike to have a girlfriend, he doesn't want to pursue el romantically, so he has no idea how to act.

i fully believe that lucas has been doing this for mike since the beginning of their relationship. he teased mike about being with el before the movie double date, mike presumably having confided in lucas about his relationship, and vice versa. mike has definitely been taking intensive notes from lucas.

and this isn't just mike being romantically inept in general. his relationships with el and will continuously parallel and contrast each other. (their fights and mike's reactions, for example) and in season 4, with no help from anyone, mike flirts so naturally with will. like he can't help it.

but with el, he's been forcing it since day one.

in real life, obviously things are wayyyy more complicated: relationships, gender, sexuality, all of it. but this is a fictional show that is telling a specific story, and so when i put together all of the narrative evidence from his entire relationship with el (especially when comparing it to will), it seems clear to me that the story stranger things is telling is not about a bi kid confused about his feelings between a girl he sort of likes and a boy he loves; it's about a boy realizing, through the constant juxtaposition of his relationships with a girl and a boy, both of whom he truly cares about, that he actually likes the boy and not the girl. aka, he's gay.

indifference toward other women

there's so much more in their relationship i could point to (other character/relationship parallels, heavy platonic/familial coding, etc), but i'll move on from el. honestly, i'm almost done though... mike doesn't really even interact with any other girls on the show that aren't adults and/or related to him. unless i missed something, the only other girl mike actually interacts with is max.

and istg they are the most platonic just look at them

but seriously, max's whole introduction into the show was primarily contrasting dustin and lucas' positive reaction to her with mike's negative/indifferent one. mike is a complex character with lots of little feelings, but i agree with most of the analysis i've seen about this: mike resents max's presence initially because it reminds him that he doesn't actually like girls in the way that his friends do, that what he has with el is not the same sort of first crush romance that he wants to pretend it is, the kind his friends are actually experiencing now. he sees max, and he sees the way dustin and lucas look at max and... he doesn't get it.

he doesn't like el (his love interest and girlfriend) he doesn't like max, (the only other girl his age he's even been on screen with), he's never shown interest in talking about, looking at, or pursuing any other girls. but... he is in love with his boy best friend. he did smile incredibly dreamily at eddie in the cafeteria. he does have more than one poster of a buff shirtless man on his bedroom wall.

i don't want to go on a bunch of tangents about minute details so i'll end the actual analysis here. i think those are the most important and relevant points. if you've read this far i appreciate you.

here's a couple more random things i consider gay mike subtext

the way his friends react vs the way mike reacts to a girl almost undressing in front of them

self explanatory

you're seeing this, right?

(should i make a post about all the shots of will over mike's shoulder?)

i know this isn't about mike liking boys but. look at him.

mike wheeler... i know what you are

.........gay

#byler #mike wheeler i know what you are #love and respect all headcanons but this is the canon supported truth imo #i'm not 100% satisfied with this i feel like theres so much nuance to it i can't really capture #and also there's an image limit fsdkfhb #but idk let me know your thoughts either way i'd love to hear them #mikesbasementbeets posts

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a-strangers-thoughtss · 2 months

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Omg I just figured out why on my stranger things rewatch I’ve only really been picking up on Mike’s obvious crush on Will. (The only reason I didn’t see it before was bc of El) but none of Will liking Mike.

I’m not even joking, I knew Will was gay by the end of season 2, bc no straight man dances with a girl like that. But I didn’t pick up on him and Mike until season 4 (the air port scene). And I think I know why!

I just found this article (yes, I’m probably late to the party, no I don’t care if you like Noah Schnapp or not, he’s still the actor that plays Will, and he’s good at it.)

“But even as Will’s entire storyline in Season 4 revolved around his unrequited love for Mike — and he was actively playing him as a closeted gay teenager — Schnapp says he just refused to allow himself to connect to what Will was going through.”

He wasn’t playing him like he was in love with Mike. You do have to connect to what the character is going through to act authentically, especially on screen! Maybe it’s just me but that’s what I’m getting out of it.

Finn has to know dude, he has to have known since like season two. You don’t just accidentally play a character that looks hopelessly in love with their best friend?

I’m not rlly sure exactly how to word it, but coincidences like that just don’t happen in acting.

#byler #stranger things #will byers #mike wheeler #noah schnapp #finn wolfhard

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nothoughts-onlywomen · 2 months

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random duos wishlist for s5

obvs elmax, rovickie, stobin, and lumax go without saying. those are REQUIREMENTS for s5

madwheeler - truthfully it would be cool to see their friendship kind of come full circle. or at the very least mike should do/say something that signifies that he truly cares for her now.

madwise - honestly the most underutilized dynamic. both targeted by vecna, both the quieter ones of the group, both sensitive (though i think max refuses to admit this about herself).

el/lucas - by some of the leaks' accounts (taken with a grain of salt), el and lucas should have some good scenes together this season. and that would be a poetic full circle moment since he started off hating her and thinking she was a freak, to her then becoming one of the most important people in his life. and they bond over almost losing max, and fighting to get her back.

nancy/lucas - i think this has been underexplored. they could relate over having a loved one who's been attacked by vecna.

robin/will - i mean they're the only two gay characters. there has to be at least ONE scene between them (though if the leaks i've read are right it looks like that may happen).

steve/jonathan - by all accounts it looks like we might be getting some of this duo in s5. i'll be very interested to see how they handle it, especially since both of them love nancy.

ronance - OBVS. don't know if the duffers will go there but i'd love at least a spontaneous kiss in a death scene or something. if not that then there should be SOMETHING that signifies that their friendship has grown.

erica/lucas - now that erica is a bigger player in this game, i would love to see some sibling bonding. it would be cool if it was over max, especially. like erica says something snippy to comfort lucas over max being in her coma.

dustin/lucas - i know we're going to get scenes of the OG four boys but i think this would be a nice callback to s1/s2.

nancy/mike - another nice callback to s1. she mentioned that her vecna visions involved mike getting hurt and she was understandably distressed by this. it would be lovely to develop their sibling relationship to something more mature.

karen/literally any of the kids - i'm thrilled to hear karen wheeler is getting a bigger role this season. i've always really liked her, so i hope whatever they do with her gives her an opportunity to interact with some of our faves.

hopper/el - another obvious one, but i think their found father/daughter relationship is one of the sweetest things in the show and i don't want it to get lost amid all the chaos.

joyce/jonathan - another essential callback to s1. their dynamic's been shelved for a minute so it would be great to bring it back.

dustin/steve - we have ALWAYS got to have this duo in some capacity, it's too damn fun. bonus if we get a scoops troop callback.

also max/consciousness would be nice too

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wakeupthemembersofbylernation · 4 months

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I get ship loyalty/nostalgia and all that, but at this point it’s genuinely baffling that people are still riding for Mlvn THIS hard. Like what are you even fighting for? What are you excited about? I too initially used to ship Mlvn back in 2016/2017 just cause I was easily swayed by what was literally, explicitly canon and on screen. I thought Mike had a crush on El, and I thought it was cute, so why wouldn’t I ship them? Then they were separated, and it was sad! And Mike never gave up! And then the Snowball dance, when viewed through this lens, was a lovely, romantic moment of promises fulfilled. And the rest is history, right?

Wrong. I adjusted my perception of things based on the actual events of the show, not based on the hypothetical romantic Mlvn that never was. Even taking out Will’s obvious love for Mike from the equation (which is hard to do since he’s my favorite character) and even pushing aside Mike’s obvious queerness (which is also hard to do cause that boy is fruity), romantic Mlvn is something that just isn’t working. On a structural level.

And the last two seasons post Snowball have made that very clear. So when diehard Mlvns comment all day on Instagram about how Mike and El are apparently soulmates, send Bylers weird hate anons en masse, and post on Twitter how excited they are for Mike and El to finally be together, I have to believe they’re watching a completely different show. Or they have poor media literacy and can’t see something like Byler until it’s literally spelled out. Or they’re holding onto 2016 nostalgia instead of watching the show and adjusting based on what they see. Because if your excitement for S5 Mlvn is based on the idea that things will finally be amazing once they’re together, what exactly do you think has been happening for the last two seasons???

#byler #will byers #mike wheeler #el hopper byers #el hopper #milkvans be like ‘we won’#what did you win exactly?

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mlchaelwheeler · 2 years

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Mike, presents, and the painting: analyzing the van scene

There has been so many analysis posts written about the van scene and Mike's feelings, but I just wanted to write my own interpretation of how we see Mike's feelings develop through the end of S3 and into S4, using the painting as the main proof. In this analysis, I'll be mainly talking about the van scene, but also a few other scenes in which Mike's feelings for Will are clearly illustrated.

In my opinion, the goodbye scene between Mike and El in 3x08 is the first scene where the audience can clearly see that something is off between the two of them (if they hadn't caught on to that fact already). Mike's been struggling all season with letting El be her own person, realizing she's more than just her superpowers, and finally being able to express his feelings for her. During their goodbye however, none of these plot lines get wrapped up. Instead, Mike tells El he "knows her powers will come back," doesn't kiss her back, and stands there with a confused look on his face afterwards. Those are all overt signs that mlvn is not where the narrative is headed in S4. That's all old news. Instead, let's look at the more subtle clues that hint towards Mike's real feelings.

Before Mike and El kiss, Mike tells her that her and the Byers should come back to Hawkins for Christmas. It's clear Mike is excited to open presents, and even mentions talking about presents makes him "sound like a 7 year old." (It's fair to mention here that 7 is a number associated with Will and byler, but I'm just going to leave that here and not analyze that). Mike clearly loves receiving presents! There's even a track from the OST that plays during this scene that mentions presents.

Why is the line about presents so important? At the time, it felt like a throwaway line-- a random bit of dialogue added to give Mike and El something to talk about before their awkward goodbye kiss. However, that line was actually perfect foreshadowing to the painting plot in S4.

S4 opens with El's letter (full of lies), in which she mentions that Will is painting a gift for a girl he likes. Now, it's clear that this is a gift Will has spent a lot of time and effort on, and it's for someone special to him. I'm sure Mike heard about this and was immediately saddened, since he's usually the recipient of Will's art-- just look at his binder full of drawings or the walls of his basement and bedroom!

So when Mike arrives at the airport and sees the painting, he lets himself hope. He wants that painting to be for him. He's figured out by now that he loves Will. He desperately wants for Will to love him back, but internalized homophobia's a bitch. Mike is constantly guessing as to what Will's feelings are, so when Will says the painting's "nothing," Mike crushes his hopes that it could be a gift for him.

It's important to note that Mike is fixated on the painting. It's also right after Mike gives El a present (the flowers), so perhaps he's thinking the painting is actually a present for him. Why else would Will bring it to the airport? But when Will assures him it's "nothing," Mike goes overboard with sticking to El, trying to ignore his disappointment the painting seemingly isn't for him.

Later on in the van, Mike is shocked to see Will still has the painting with him. I'm sure he assumed Will had already given it to whichever girl it was for, so when Will hands it to him, he has to check it's actually for him.

And the thing is, yes, Will spills his own feelings using El as a cover. But I think Mike understood. He desperately wanted to believe those were Will's feelings. That's what he's wanted for so long now. Will loves him! The painting-- a present for Mike-- was Will's way of telling Mike he loves him. Even after Will finishes talking about "El's" feelings for Mike, it's obvious (at least to me) that Mike knows Will's talking about himself.

After confirming these feelings are real ("Yeah?" "Yeah."), Mike looks back down at the painting. A depiction of the party, Mike with a heart on this shield. To Will, he's the heart. It's clear that painting is all Will. Mike knows El doesn't know anything about dnd. There's no way she could've commissioned it. I think Mike knows exactly who the painting is from, and what it means. Or at least he's desperately hoping he knows. And then he looks back up! At Will! Not out the window (perhaps thinking of El), or at the painting for a longer amount of time, but back at Will seconds later. Will isn't looking back at him, but the way Mike is looking at Will... that boy is in love. And for the moment, he believes it's requited.

For the rest of 4x08, Mike believes Will loves him. And that's why, during their reunion with El, we get shots like this:

Obviously, Mike is overjoyed to reunite with El. He cares about her so deeply, and even though he doesn't love her romantically (platonic with a capital P), that doesn't make him any less happy to have her back, knowing she's safe once again. However, the clear framing choice of Will's silhouette between mlvn, as well as Mike's reaction after he hugs El (they don't kiss, which is interesting) further prove the fact that Mike's romantic feelings are towards Will. He's still thinking about the painting. Will's feelings for him. The fact that his own feelings might actually be returned.

Mike goes into the monologue scene still believing that Will loves him. So as El's visibly dying on the table, and Will tells Mike again ("You're the heart") feelings he thought were Will's, Mike is confused. Maybe they really were El's feelings? Maybe Mike was too in his own head and misinterpreted everything? Maybe Will doesn't actually love him and never has?

You can see the confusion written clearly on his face. His eyebrows draw down, his mouth tightens, and he rethinks every interaction he had with Will earlier that day. If Will doesn't love him, then he was completely wrong. His feelings are unrequited. He's completely alone. El is dying in front of him, so he does what he can. He forces himself to say "that thing."

He lies his ass off, but what else is he going to do? Will doesn't love him but apparently El does. He cares for El so much. He obviously doesn't want her to die! So he bottles up his own feelings and tells her exactly what he thinks she wants to hear. He makes up lie after lie, but at that point, he's saying anything that might help. His face right before he says he loves her is heartbreaking. That is not the face of a boy professing his love to his girlfriend. That is the face of a boy forced to lie to save a life. Forced to push aside his own feelings after apparently misinterpreting everything. That is a face of despair.

Two days later, it's clear Mike's lies didn't help anyone. El is more distant than ever. Max is comatose. Will is ignoring him. No matter what he does, Mike can never seem to get it right. Yet he does know one thing: he loves Will. So even in his mind, even though he now believes Will doesn't actually love him, Mike keeps hoping. He resigns himself to the fact that he'll just keep being Will's best friend, because that's how he can stick by his side. It's clear he's still contemplating this on the drive back to Hawkins.

And it's even more clear that he loves Will in the scenes in Hopper's cabin. Mike and El have barely spoken two words to each other after his grand confession of love-- despite the fact they were sitting inches apart for 48 hours. Yet who does Mike gravitate towards, as he always does? Will. We get a beautiful parallel to S2, in which Mike would've moved heaven and hell to keep Will by his side.

If one thing's for certain in Mike's mind, it's that he loves Will. He's not losing him again. Despite finding out that the malicious presence that's been out for Will for years is now back, Mike is resolute. Vecna is not touching Will ever again, not if Mike has any say in the matter. They'll figure this out together-- as best friends, as a team, as something more. Because even if Mike believes that Will doesn't love him, Mike does love Will. He always has and always will. And he's not losing him ever again.

#okkk here it is! (only like 4 days after i promised it lol)#i understand mike. I KNOW THE TRUTH #no offense but if you disagree argue with a wall bc. i know mikes thoughts. i'm sure of it #byler #mike wheeler #byler analysis #sarah.txt

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statusquoergo · 5 months

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do you think, when mike left the firm and stopped being a lawyer (that handshake gif you reblogged. sidebar: your tags 🥺), if mike had been single...do you think harvey would have tried to progress something romantic in this situation? he asks him out to dinner as it is...bc he just wants to be with him. he loves this man. their work arrangement was the obvious reason nothing could progress, and mike's developing relationship with rachel the obvious other. if, say, there was no rachel in the picture...I just wonder...

I could see the argument of harvey not wanting to risk their friendship and losing mike fully; he's one to take mike however much he's able to have him, and he'd take friendship over nothing any day. but, honestly...the way harvey just oozes love for mike (particularly in later seasons)...it might not even be an active choice; it might just be something that happens because he loves mike: he can't help being doe-eyed on dinner dates, and their flirty banter, and if mike is receptive then, well...full romance it'd become

(also, I don't buy harvey being too emotionally stunted or whatever to go after him. I don't think donna's all-knowing about him at all in this regard. he's a man who knows how he feels and what he wants.)

oh, and to add on to that. I haven't rewatched in a while, but a scene that sticks with me through EVERYTHING is harvey going to mike's office, "Flowers die. I thought I'd bring something better. Me" mike LOOKS UP like HELLO "...across the table from you." Like that was So charged and Mike was So receptive. he's been attracted to harvey from the beginning, too. obviously had no thought that that would ever be a reality lol and concurrently fell for rachel. but if there is no rachel, and no work relationship...mike is So down. he seriously would be. they flirt as it is...with no obstacles how could it not become something

Every time those two have to go their separate ways, no matter how long, they always have to do it in the most heartbreaking way they can come up with 😢

The thing about this is, I don't think Harvey's biggest obstacle is that he's not in touch with his own feelings. Or Mike's, for that matter. He knows he wants Mike, he knows he loves Mike, he knows he would give up everything he has and everything he is for Mike, and at the very least, he knows Mike is into him, too, although I imagine it would take some time once the barriers are all down for him to fully comprehend just how much.

As you said, the argument for him not wanting to lose his friendship with Mike isn't a hard one to make. For all his bluster and bravado, Harvey doesn't have a lot of friends; he has Donna, who's his nearest and dearest confidant but also kind of really controlling and a little manipulative, and he has Louis, who he treats like shit the vast majority of the time and prefers to toy with rather than bond with, and he has Jessica, who's mainly a mother figure and role model. And then he has Mike. Mike, who he fights with probably more often than he should because they both have absolutely godawful communication skills, but who he would (and does) tell literally anything and everything, no matter how personal; who he trusts to have his back in any given situation; who he tried to go to prison for; and who gives him all that back tenfold. Or at least in kind. This is in all likelihood the first and only relationship he's ever had of that caliber, and he'd be a fool to give it up, so why risk it seeking something more? ("More" as in "additional," not "more" as in "romance is more valuable than friendship." Just...clearing that up.)

The argument against that, however, is also an easy one: Since when has Harvey ever been afraid to take a risk? It's not even a big one, honestly. If Rachel is out of the picture, he's aware enough to realize that this thing between him and Mike has a shot, and it would be awfully foolish of him not to pursue it. He could go for it full tilt, running down the darkened city streets at the dead of night to show up at Mike's doorstep and make a full-on declaration of his intent, or he could soft-pedal it and leave himself room to back out if things start going south, but I don't think not wanting to risk their friendship would stop him completely from making a move if Mike is "in play," as it were. Even if it took him a minute to realize how much it hurt him to be apart from Mike for that long. Or at all.

Now, I hate to say this (I mean I really hate to say it), but I do think Harvey might be tripped up by (I really hate to say it) his own sense of misogyny.

I should break that down a little.

Harvey grew up in a very broken household. He and his brother don't seem to have had the best relationship (their camaraderie and fondness for one another is fairly superficial; they seem pretty friendly in low- or no-stakes situations, but Marcus only reconnected with Harvey to ask him for money, and he didn't even tell Harvey his cancer had come back because it wasn't worth the trouble); he childishly idolized his nearly-absent father to the point of hero worship; and his mother, well, let's not bother rehashing that for the hundredth time. His image of the "perfect family," however, isn't an unconventional one; it's a loving mother and father doting on one another, and taking care of their child, or children. He didn't have that, but it's what he always wanted, and what he's spent his life telling himself is what he should want. That is, he isn't interested in crafting himself a new ideal so much as recovering the one he missed out on.

On top of all that, he's chosen to wholeheartedly throw himself into the world of corporate law, which is an extremely male-dominated field (Jessica notwithstanding; even she has to play by the men's rules, and she knows full well that she was promoted to her position at least in part for the optics of the firm having a Black woman in such an elite role). If he's going to ride his life's mine cart rails along to a happy family, it's going to be with a woman in as traditional a household as he can scrape together.

What I mean by that is that he'd have to actively, consciously, purposefully choose to pursue any life that's not that one. He's not a misogynist by trade, I don't think, like I don't think he thinks men are inherently superior to women or any of that shit, but the overall model has been instilled in him so strongly and from so many directions that someone would have to sit him down and shove it in his face and teach him how to unlearn it, and unless Mike is the one to do that by way of making the first move, I don't really see it occurring to anyone that it's even necessary. Harvey might have his flings (Ted Phillips, anyone?), and he may be aware that a life with Mike is what he wants, but left to his own devices, I'm not convinced he'd realize it's one he can have.

This is where the "not wanting to lose the best friendship he's ever had" part comes into play. He and Mike flirt like a couple of hormonal teenagers, they're clearly both interested in going further, and if Rachel is out of the picture, there's nothing (external) stopping them, but Harvey has something deep down in his subconscious telling him that he's not allowed to have that, so the friendship alone has to be enough.

But you'd better believe they're going to push those boundaries as far as they'll go.

All that said, if someone, anyone, thought to give Harvey a nudge in that direction... I think he'd be all for it.

#marvey #anonymous #analysis

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byleriscanon713by · 7 months

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So I might be reading too far into this but I took the duffers funko pop thing and sorted it

Code:

Yellow- friend pairings

Green: romantic pairings

Blue: familial pairings

Red: not currently present

Okay so we’ll get into the friendship parings first.

So I think will and robin will get to have a fun friendship this season. I think they prob want robin to hang out with someone other than Steve and Nancy so will and her would bond well since they’re both part of the lgbtq+ community. I also think there’s potential for her to help in the buildup for byler. i also see a lot of potential for Mike and Lucas to kind of mend their friendships that’s always been a little rocky throughout the seasons. I think they’ll get some (not a large amount) of interaction together to kind of mend their holes throughout the seasons. I also have seen the theory that Lucas will be integral in helping Mike realize his feelings for Mike which is possible. It’s 50/50 but I do think Lucas may just say something unintentionally that triggers Mike into being like “oh god I’m a homosexual.” (Even tho he probably ALR knows that from the ending of season 3)

The Dustin/Johnathan/Nancy/Steve pairing is interesting and I think it’s gonna be a great quartet thing-a-ma-bobber. So we know Dustin and Steve are joined at the hip and Nancy and Johnathan are also super close so they’ll def stick together. However we’ve also seen previs’ of steve and Johnathan having a conversation in episode 1 of st5 so I think the two of them will become friends. There was also a previs from episode 5 I believe and it looks like they’re in the upside down and you could see Dustin in the passenger seat of a car and Nancy and Johnathan in the back. I think it’d be weird for Dustin to just casually be hanging w/ Nancy and Johnathan so I bet Steve is driving. Also, we know Eleven is gonna be an integral part of the series and so is Will, so the four of them kind of are on the outskirts a little. They’ll prob have a more separate storyline where they’re discovering things unrelated to the core problem. Now why would robin and Lucas not be with that group? Well Lucas just lost max so I think he might need some separation time from that group and he might want to rekindle with mike and will cuz he was kind of distant with them in season 4. I think Robin may be with that group part time, but I also think she may take up some sort of fondness for Will where she wants to protect him (especially if he’s susceptible to vecna) Also if Will is susceptible to Vecna, Lucas has seen Max get vecnad and saved her the first time so he might have that instinct to “I need to save Will since I didn’t save Max.” Robin may be there because she’s the one who discovered the whole music thing and she may want to be wills lesbian protector idk. And obvious mike would want to be there but we’ll get into that later.

Now why did I put Steve/Nancy/Jonathan in green? I think they’re gonna be a love triangle. Not the love triangle where they all date, but just the fact that Steve and Johnathan are both obviously pining over Nancy. As much as I hate admitting it, I think stancy is endgame with the way they set them up in st4. I also think there’s a large possibility of Johnathan well… perishing. I’ve seen a lot of people saying “omg stonathan” cuz they saw Steve and Johnathan touching heads in that photo but I am skeptical of stonathan ever happening. I think they’ll be friends, but I think the head touching could still meaning there’s some head butting over Nancy going on. They both love her so I do think they’ll both have romantic moments throughout the season with her. Idk. That love triangle is quite a mystery. Let’s get into the best ship: Byler! I believe Byler is endgame and I could go on for probably eight hours about all the proof and all the queer coding they’ve gone through. Now why do I think byler is a logical thing going to happen in a straight to the point way? Well you saw Mike at the end of st4 when Will was talking abt feeling Vecna. Mike looked terrified. Mike has that instinct of needing to protect Will, and I think as st4 went on Mike started gaining it back and releasing el didn’t love him as much and that will was the one who needed him. The duffers have also teased a lot about circling back to the og relationships and dynamics from st1, but they’ve also said a lot of it is based on st2. Now in st2 Mike was practically attached to Will since he was possessed by the mid flayer. I am 100% sure Will is going to be under Vecnas trance and I’m pretty sure that’ll happen early in the season. I think once Mike sees that he’ll snap right back into his protector mode and be joined to Will for the rest of the season. From there, the potential of the painting being recalled and basically them confessing their love is quite obvious. I’m not gonna get too into byler here but it you love hearing about byler you should follow me cuz I post about them a lot :) (Also if your a st account or like any fandom I’m interested in I’ll prob follow u back and stalk ur page cuz I adore reading yalls theories and fics and ahhhh)

Now let’s get into the familial relationship!!! I forgot to circle Joyce and hopper in green but that’s okay cuz they’re endgame and it’s obvious. Now since Joyce lost hopper for so long and it took so much tension building over the seasons for them to get together, I think they’ll be partnered up again. They typically are anyways. I think Eleven will also be with them. I think Eleven is going to break up with Mike and become her own character. Now I think eleven is going to die at the end of the season by using all her powers and instead of fainting, destroying the upside down for good and killing herself in the process. I think it’s a full circle but also depressing and plausible ending for her. It’s very likely. This season I think they’re going to focus on her character. In every season her character has either been based on her powers or on being mikes girlfriend. I think her having time with Hoppet and Joyce will give her some good character qualities and depth that we haven’t seen. She’s also reeling from the death of Max and I feel she’ll just want some space (especially from what we see at the end of st4) However she also misses Hopper cuz he was the primary influence in her life and personally I think he loves her more than anymore. She wants to makeup for the lost time with him. Also wherever hopper is Joyce will be too, especially since she’s always had that kind of motherly dynamic towards El (and she is her mom now technically.) I’m just so excited for el to finally get to be her own person.

Lastly I think Max will be MIA for a while. I think that she will come back but not until later. She may help fight Vecna from inside his mind, but I doubt she will truly not come back till Eleven is able to kill vecna. Not seeing Sadie sink in this season much would kill me cuz I love her, but it’s realistic.

Anyways thank you so much for reading this super long rant!!! Reblog and add your opinions cuz I would die to see them. Like I love hearing new theories!

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wheelercore · 11 months

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The Wheeler family, "normalcy", what that means in stranger things, how that possibly explains subtext behind the shifting dynamics of the family- particularly Ted's favoritism of Holly over Mike and definitely Nancy, and how this all connects to the Wheeler family show of opulence- more specifically, toys. Just a stream of consciousness honestly.

This one is for the rosegate girlies ***crowd boos***

Now, the Wheeler family has been one of the two main families of the show since the very beginning. However, in my opinion, what's been going on with them behind the scenes have been kept pretty subtle. And by subtle, I mean hidden behind so many layers of symbolism its crazy. From objects in the Wheeler home being reminiscent of things that could be found in the Creel attic (the white wedding dress, the wheel chair, the piano) + the grandfather clock chimes to Mike being able to sense the void, it's kind of obvious at least to me that the Wheelers are plot relevant, its just obvious as to what it is about them.

Over all, they are defined as being the "normal" nuclear family. Their opulence is shown consistently in the show, from Mike's basement full of toys and games, to Karen and Nancy having new outfits/hair-dos almost every season, to Holly's new lite brite (and god we will be getting to this one), and to Jonathan pointing out to Nancy that his father doesn't make 6-figures. The funny thing being that the Wheelers aren't even the richest family in the show. We don't know how much the Sinclair's make- however it seems like Lucas' parents can also afford to get him the walkie talkies and toys also. The Harringtons are by far the richest family we know of. But yet, the Wheelers are the ones the most emphasized to have more than enough.

Now, season 4 was the season where the writers, via Dustin and Steve, proclaimed they were going to have to spell it out for us. And spell it out they did (mostly in Henry's monologue). There are several quotes I want to point out that specifically describe what Stranger Thing's message on "conformity" and "normalcy" is. To summarize? It doesn't exist. Normalcy isn't real, it's a set of arbitrary standards used to keep the average person afraid of being different.

"Humans are a unique type of pest, multiplying and poisoning our world, all while enforcing a structure of their own- a deeply unnatural structure..." - Henry

(cont.) "Where others saw order, I saw a straightjacket- an oppressive, cruel world dictated by made-up rules. Minutes, days, months, years, decades, every life faded, lesser copy of the one before. Wake up- work- eat- sleep-reproduce- die-" - Henry

(cont.) "Everyone is just waiting- waiting for it to all be over, distracting themselves while performing in a silly, terrible play, day after day... I couldn't pretend." - Henry

(Henry describing his parents) "I saw my parents as they truly were. To the world they presented themselves as normal people, good people. But like everything else in this world, it was all a lie- a terrible lie. They had done things- such awful things-"

"I thought I wanted to be like you. Popular. Normal. But it turns out, normal’s just a raging psychopath." - Lucas at Jason

"A lie designed to conceal the truth"- Jason, shot focusing on the Wheelers for a moment

So what does this mean when the Wheelers are considered to be the façade of an average "normal" main family of the show? We see Mike, Nancy, and Karen struggle with conformity and their unhappiness with their "place" in life, but how does this connect to the overall plot? Why are the Wheelers subtlety connected to the supernatural? What is going on "behind the curtain" and what truth is this "lie" concealing?

Well, we already see from Mike, Nancy, and Karen's POV, so lets talk about Ted's relationship with his children aka why I believe the answer can be partially found there.

Honestly you could ask anyone and they would probably give you a different interpretation of this. And to be honest I think they're all very wrong [*boos and hisses from the crowd*].

What I personally think is that Ted lets his children go when they stop "performing" in the lie, the "silly, terrible play" that is the Wheeler family. And that happens to be when they get older, when they start to become individuals (and children should). We see Ted's relationship with this children get worse and worse the older they are. He seems to dote on Holly, at least speaks to Mike, and just completely ignores Nancy's existence.

Hopper has a quote about this that perfectly explains it:

"I think it must be hardwired into us to reject our fathers. So we can grow and move on. Become something of our own."

This quote happens after Enzo talks about his son "Mikhail" (which is literally just "Michael" in Russian kill me the curtains are so fucking blue guys).

Hopper: I bet Mikhail (Michael) will be proud of his pops, at least. Enzo: Mikhail (Michael)? Mmm. No. I can't do nothing right with him anymore, it seems.

The writers of Stranger Things intentionally associated growing up, becoming your own person, with rejecting your father. As in, at some point you just don't need them anymore. Don't need them to support you financially, to protect you. Two things that are seen as the fathers traditional responsibilities: to be the breadwinner and to be the protector of the household. Thanks for spelling it out for us, Duffers.

An intentional parallel also related to fatherhood in the show is letting your children go when they eventually begin to reject you. In the first Wheeler dinner scene in S1, Ted tells Karen to "let [Mike] go" when he storms away from the dinner table, distraught by Will's disappearance. In S4 we see Karen hug Mike, joking promising not even to let him go to college, not letting him go. In the same s1 dinner scene, in contrast with Mike, whom Ted at least attempts to talk calmly to, Ted repeatedly shuts down Nancy ("Language!"). He's already "let her go" by S1, refusing to even listen to her. Ted pushes his children away the moment he feels that they are beginning to "reject" him, and this is symbolized by their toys (which in my opinion is a symbol of Ted attempted to "buy" his children's love and we see that with Holly) and I will get to that in a second.

However, that phase was used similarly in the context of Brenner and Henry. El telling Brenner that he "could not let [Henry] go".

El at "Papa": So many dead. And all because of you. Because you could not stop. You could not let him go.

However as we're shown, both letting your kids go prematurely (Ted) or holding onto them too tightly in a controlling sense (Brenner) both are damaging to your children.

Let's start looking at some photos:

When I talk about Ted's relationship with his children it's subtly portrayed in the Wheeler family photos we get. Notice how Ted stands in between Karen and Mike, Nancy out to the side- not within his arms. Ted holds Nancy at arms length, Mike has not yet been given the full cold shoulder by Ted. This looks to have been taken around S1. And what looks like roses on Nancy's shirt.

They do a similar thing with the Creels, where we see Victor, Virginia, and Alice as a Unit, with Victors arms around Alice and Virginia- Henry is only held by Virginia's hand. Visual storytelling and all that. Henry is being held at arms length in his family, he is the "odd one out". You can even tell by the colors, Henry is the only one not in blue.

Then we see a completely different arrangement here. Now they are in a line. Ted has his arm around Karen (who is holding Holly), while Nancy and Mike are out the furthest away from him, Nancy being the farthest- as usual. Mike is also no longer within Ted's arm length. Notice Holly has one solitary red flower on her dress? Nancy no longer has roses on her shirt? This photo seems to either be taken before or after S2 (I'm not sure? Lol)

As we can see, by S1, Nancy has already been iced out and Mike is on his way by S2. This has a negative effect on the Wheeler siblings, as we see that they struggle with understanding close relationships, especially romantic relationships. Insecure attachments can become transgenerational, as a parent perpetuates it on their child in the same way it was perpetuated onto them:

Just like any other form of trauma or distress, an insecure attachment style can be passed down through generations.

Consequently, as children typically learn by example, a child picks up on this detachment from emotions and mirrors how their caregiver deals with unpleasant feelings ...

We see hints of this in Mike, who expressed his insecurity in his relationship with El:

Mike: Yeah, I know. I… I know she is. But… But what if after all this is over, she- sh- she doesn't need me anymore? Will: No, o- of course she'll still need you. She'll always need you, Mike. Mike: I keep telling myself that, but I… I don't believe it. I mean, she's special. She was born special. Maybe I was one of the first people to realize that. But the truth is, when I stumbled on her in the woods, she just needed someone. It's not fate. It's… It's not destiny. It's just simple dumb luck. And one day she's gonna realize I'm just some random nerd that got lucky that Superman landed on his doorstep. I mean, at least Lois Lane is an ace reporter for the Daily Planet, right? But…

We also see how Ted treats Karen mirrored in their children also.

We see Karen feel neglected by Ted in S2 and her restlessness/unhappiness leading her to fantasize via middle aged woman erotica. However, she is convinced not to cheat when she sees Ted cuddling with Holly on his la z boy. The song of choice of these scene, (I Just) Died In Your Arms, is very telling because its clearly from Karen's perspective about Ted. A few lyrics of note:

I keep lookin' for somethin' I can't get Broken hearts lie all around me And I don't see an easy way to get out of this Her diary, it sits by the bedside table The curtains are closed, the cats in the cradle Who would've thought that a boy like me could come to this Is there any just cause for feelin' like this? On the surface, I'm a name on a list I try to be discreet, but then blow it again I've lost and found, it's my final mistake She's loving by proxy, no give and all take 'Cause I've been thrilled to fantasy one too many times

While the song itself is about a one night stand with an ex, fundamentally its about someone who feels used by a partner but can't stop going back to them. Karen feels like "just a name on a list" and that her experience with Ted is "no give and all take" and love by "proxy" (ie not being loved by someone as they really are, but as who they pretend to be). Which, as we will get into, is a reoccurring thing with Ted and not just Karen but Nancy, Mike, and Holly too. Being used and then pushed out- like as I explained before is portrayed with Mike and Nancy, not only directly, but indirectly with their struggles with romantic relationships- ie not really knowing what love is or just generally not being very good romantic partners.

Now lets talk about Holly because this is fascinating to me at least. I see people say that Ted dotes on Holly, which is true in s3 & s4, but in s1 & s2 we hardly ever see him interact with her. In fact, Holly, in proximity, is more often associated with/near Karen than ever Ted in the first two season. At the dinner/breakfast table the arrangement is usually Ted -> Karen -> Holly. I don't think Ted pays any mind to Holly in the first two seasons in all honesty, unless I'm missing something.

However in s3 something shifts. Whereas before it was Karen and Holly, now its Karen, Holly, and Ted as the new family unit (to the exclusion of Mike and Nancy- who are being pushed out).

Holly is now associated with Ted. We see her cuddling with him on his lay z boy, they all go together at to the fair and Ted adjusts her shirt on the ferris wheel (and at some point Ted hands her the blue teddy bear), and in s4 Holly is constantly playing with her new lite brite in the wheeler den (which is the area of the home most associated with Ted) in pink/white. And as I mentioned before, in the second Wheeler family photo she has one solitary red flower on her dress.

And now we get a new seating arrangement in the church scene, Ted now in between Holly and Karen, again this new unit but with Ted in the middle now ("a lie designed to conceal the truth").

But what about toys? Well, as I mentioned before, its all about the Wheeler's show of opulence, which is directly associated with Ted- as Jonathan points out to Nancy, his father doesn't make 6 figures. When Ted begins to dote on Holly we see immediately in the next season she's got a new toy that she's constantly with. I mean constantly. Building her white rabbit, which in the theme surrounding predator and prey in ST, is a prey animal. Which makes it so much more interesting that the lite brite is used to connect to the UD, the representation of the "shadows" aka someone's fears/guilt/secrets/etc that they refuse to acknowledge. At least to me the toys in the Wheeler home that keep on getting brought up have thematic significance.

Compared to Nancy in the end of S4, who donates her rabbit toy, mentioning that she doesn't need it anymore. In fact all throughout S4 we have moments where Nancy mentioned having grown out of things: when they visit her room frozen in time in the UD and also when she mentions her room poster after Robin brings attention to it.

We also see Holly in pink-white color scheme, a color scheme that Nancy was often associated with in S1 & S2:

Stole these images from @/boysdontcryboycry. you know. like a thief

(also notice her ballerina necklace early on? It's all a "performance".)

Also comparing this to Mikes basement, which is filled to the brim with toys and games. Mike is absolutely spoiled in this aspect from his very introduction in S1E1. And again, the Wheelers are not the richest family in ST, but yet its their status of having more than enough that we see over and over again. Where is Lucas' basement full of toys? It's not like his family seems to be short on money either. But with the Wheelers it's the classic contrast between riches and lack of intimacy, usually signified by the misconception that love can be bought with gifts rather than genuine emotional intimacy. And as we see when the Wheeler children grow up and start requiring that emotional intimacy rather than just being satisfied with toys, like say a child Holly's age, they are pushed out and forced to "grow up" too quickly (as symbolized by Mike being pressured to donate his toys).

When Ted calls Mike's toys "husks of junk" (or something to that effect I don't remember the exact quote), its not just him being rude, its subtextual. Ted is devaluing the affection he gave Mike previously when Mike got those toys to begin with, just as 6 year old Holly got her lite brite when Ted began to dote on her sometime between S2 and S3. Except now Mike is older, and according to Hopper, every child is destined to "reject" their father as they grow, so now those toys are meaningless to Ted who's gearing up to "let him go"- but Mike doesn't want to let go of them. He is only twelve, not yet ready to grow up.

Regardless, this is all to say that Ted prematurely lets go of his children when they start to develop as individuals, not just stuck in a state of being children who are only satisfied with receiving toys. He refuses to engage with his children in an emotional level as they grow, letting them go when they stop being cute, quiet, and easy to extract emotional validation and comfort from. And there is where we see an underlying emotional immaturity to Ted's behavior. While other fathers in the show (like Hopper and Enzo) express their feelings about their children growing up, they are still able to acknowledge that its normal, that they had done the same when they were young. Hopper himself behaved... unpleasantly when El had Mike over constantly in S3 but understands El is growing up and he was just too afraid to lose her. Ted however, seems insistent on rejecting his children before they can reject him- which reveals an inability to handle rejection/abandonment or a sensitivity to it. He would rather hold his own children at arms length and just move onto the next child.

The second part of this post would be to explain why he is like this, and that would require going back all the way to the quotes from earlier in this post. Particularly what The Duffers' mouthpiece Henry's monologue has to say about conformity being a distraction.

"Where others saw order, I saw a straightjacket- an oppressive, cruel world dictated by made-up rules. Minutes, days, months, years, decades, every life faded, lesser copy of the one before. Wake up- work- eat- sleep-reproduce- die- Everyone is just waiting- waiting for it to all be over, distracting themselves while performing in a silly, terrible play, day after day... I couldn't pretend."

Literally what have we seen Ted do throughout the show that isn't waking up, working, eating, sleeping, and reproducing. Its intentional. And these actions are not characterized as things that are healthy, but as distractions. Playing pretend. Distractions one takes while performing in a "silly, terrible play" i.e. the Wheeler family.

The thing is though, the play gets disrupted when Mike and Nancy act out. When they don't play their part, which is only natural as they grow up and become individuals. Then this "silly, terrible play" becomes Karen, Holly, and Ted- that is, up until Holly grows up. The Wheeler family is a "lie designed to conceal a truth" because it isn't a family born out of commitment and love (Nancy saying she doesn't believe her parents ever loved each other), but out of the need for a distraction- for Ted specifically. Which is why while we don't get his POV, we see the horrible effects it has on the rest of the family. Karen's disillusionment and unhappiness with her place in life (getting married young to an older man) and Mike and Nancy being unable to discern what love and commitment actually looks like. They've lived their whole lives in something entirely fake built to serve someone else's need for normalcy, which is partially why we see Nancy end up in an unhappy loveless relationship with Steve, or why Mike struggles in a ""normal"" relationship with El afraid that she won't need him anymore.

Its all neatly symbolized in this one shot from the end of S4:

One source of distraction paired with another- Ted's TV and the Wheeler family photo right under it, the earliest one where Nancy is still prim and proper, Mike is smiling widely, and Karen is still a brunette. With Karen and Holly right there next to it.

(and then Ted turns off the TV. Bad or good omen? You decide :D)

But the "truth" can be found with Holly. The red flower that can be seen on Holly's dress in the second Wheeler family photo and the white-pink color scheme she is in for the majority of S4 is associated with other characters.

The red flower (rose) in particular is repeatedly associated with mothers, for example Billy's mom who also had one clearly stamped onto the front of her shirt.

Or just in general roses all over the Creel home, including the glass door, Karen at many points, all the fake urns all over the Wheeler home, the real urn (which has pink flowers on it and straight up changes during the earthquake dont ask why oooh its just a production error), the Byers wallpaper- particularly the one Will was stuck behind, etc etc man just check out my rosegate masterpost.

The pink and white (and sometimes blue) color scheme also being often seen not only with Nancy but also with other characters, particularly mothers but not limited to that. Karen being one, Mrs. Cunningham, Tammy Thompson (described as a muppet), Virginia, El, and most importantly to me "Rose Weaver" Robin (whos hairstyle is literally just a mix of Karen's S2/S3 bangs and Virginias bob).

Holly... Holly is the last "distraction" left. And she'd dressed like Rosemary for a good portion of s4 and she's also the only blonde Wheeler sibling. Just a symbolistic representation of creating a family and using your kids to soothe and distract yourself. Holly is dressed like Rosemary because Ted seeks the emotional validation he never received (to what extent? We do not know) from this "silly, little play", in which now Holly is the only sibling left because Nancy and Mike have been "pushed out" due to well... being individuals that don't solely exist to provide a "distraction" and Ted's seeming sensitivity to his kids growing up and rejecting him (because Rosemary totally didn't reject him right? right? That can't be what this is all about lol. lmao even.)

And to see that Holly's lite brite was used as the connection between the RSU and the UD- the "light"/the good and the darkness that people don't want to acknowledge about themselves.

On the bright side (pun intended) I'm pretty sure this means that they are Ted's "light". However still fucked up. 1000 years in therapy for you. Your family arent solely just your "light" they are real human beings.

Anyways the lesson here is that people who shouldn't have kids shouldn't be expected to conform and forced to start a family lmao.

TDLR:

Wheeler s5 sweep

#brother I am still holding onto that wheeler happy ending white knuckles n all #rosegate #anyways this is my nuclear ted take. take it or leave it. rosegate be upon ye! Delusion be upon ye!

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katlandry · 1 year

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In honour of Noah getting the first 3 scripts for Season 5, this is my Season 5 bucket list (I may be very early so this is my early one) I’ll try to make it as realistic as possible 😭

- Nancy survives.

This is the number one thing I need to happen, I will not be able to handle it if she dies

- I’m also very much on the side of I want everyone to survive.

Stranger Things is very much about the relationships between all of the characters, and it might not be the main part of the show but it is an important one and it’s what makes Stranger Things so great. I think it would massively suck if they were to kill any of the Hopper-Byers family after everything they’ve been through and Hopper losing anyone would just confirm his theory that he’s a “curse”.

- Ronance hug.

I need this like I need air. Nancy Wheeler needs a hug and I need Robin to be the one to give it to her.

- More Ronance scenes.

I mean obviously I ship Ronance so of course I want more scenes of them together, BUT I also really love their friendship. After Nancy lost Barb, Robin is the first girl she’s befriended that didn’t have romantic intentions and I think their friendship is really something special.

- Nancy to finally get closure with Barb and realise it wasn’t her fault

I realise she kind of got closure in S2, but I don’t think she really did. She clearly still blames herself, and what happened shaped her into who she is today. And we know she never really spoke to anyone about what happened because when she tried to talk to Steve he brushed her off. So I think she needs someone to tell her it wasn’t her fault.

- Nancy/Robin/Jonathan/Steve/Argyle team up.

This would be the team up of the CENTURY.

- Nancy/El scenes

I’ve needed this since S1. I think they’re quite similar in some ways and it’d be so nice to see them have some scenes together

- Jargyle scenes

I mean… they’re literally hilarious together. Imagine Nancy, Robin and Steve having to put up with high Jargyle 😭

- Not St*ncy endgame

Okay. Don’t hate me, and I’m sure this is pretty well known by now but I’m very much anti St*ncy and I’m not even sorry about it. Those two getting back together would feel like ten steps backwards and a dishonour to both of their characters. Steve’s character for the past two seasons has revolved around finding a girlfriend and I think he needs to realise that he doesn’t need a girlfriend and it’s okay to be on your own. It would also be a very misogynistic ending for Nancy. I could talk about this forever but I’ll just leave it at that. 😭

- JOPPER DATE!

Pretty sure David Harbour already confirmed this but I’m so excited to see Jopper in a relationship!!

- Mike being a complete menace to society and Robin getting to experience it

I mean, Robin hasn’t spent much time with Mike yet and I just think him being the little shit he is would be so funny for Robin to witness. I can just imagine her turning to Nancy and saying “You’re related to him?”

- Will/Robin scenes

This is an obvious one, but I think talking to Robin would help Will a LOT. I don’t know how likely it is to happen but I think it’d be really nice for Will to know he’s not on his own.

- LUMAX DATE!

I NEED IT. They arranged it last season and Max DIED so it’s only right they get their date in Season 5!!

- More Erica

Not much to say about this, we all need more Erica.

- More Hopper-Byers family

El finally has a family and somewhere she belongs, Hopper just came back from the dead. I need this family to be happy more than anything.

- If not Byler endgame, I need to see Will accept himself (at least somewhat) and finally be happy.

I like both Mileven and Byler, and honestly my opinion on who should be endgame changes on a daily basis based on the fans lmao. It would be awesome to see Byler endgame, but I would like to see Will accept himself and maybe come out to his mom??

- Nancy & Mike hug.

This has to happen. It has to. And not right before one of them dies either. Give me more Wheeler siblings. Perhaps a parallel to S1 when Nancy rushes out of the Byers to hug Mike but this time Mike rushes to hug Nancy??

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oldfashionedmorphine · 10 months

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well now i can’t say “nobody asked for this…”

(dear anon, i hope this helps!)

fyi—i spend way too much of my time looking things up for this fic… and this is some of what i saved when it came to outfits/hair and also just some basics info/stuff :)

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mike in 2004

hair: styled like johnny depp’s hair in the 90s… he’s kept it shoulder length or longer since 1986—he ditched the bangs at some point in the early 90s! and since he doesn’t dye it, there’s some gray throughout

outfits: white or black t-shirt’s, black jeans, and converse high tops are still his bread-and-butter base. his style is pretty consistent because he’s not a big fan of change—he likes what he likes! it’s just super easy for him to throw something else over a plain t-shirt and walk out the door.

overall: he doesn’t typically keep his face clean-shaven, call it laziness, but sometimes he will wait two weeks or more between picking up a razor. he’s still skinny because he doesn’t always eat right, skipping meals because he gets too distracted with video games, but years of drinking are starting to take a toll and reflect in his skin, at times looking sallow

———————

will in 2004

hair: styled basically like whatever hayden christensen was doing to his hair in 2003/2004, also not a fan of hair dye, and also as he got older there was a bit more wave to his hair

outfits: wears lots of flannels, band/graphic tees, polos, button ups with sweater vests, jeans/corduroy/khaki pants, adidas/saucony jazz/new balance style sneakers—usually laid back but he will also use any excuse to dress it up! wears square-framed tortoiseshell glasses since 2001 (when he had to renew his driver’s license he couldn’t pass the eyesight test—got his eyes checked and sure enough he needed glasses!)—and included that picture of noah wearing glasses cause when i saw it i was like, wow yeah, that’s not too far off, just change the frames and age him 15 years… lol

overall: usually keeps his face free of any stubble, also has a few gray hairs but not as many as mike and he likes to walk or run for exercise to better keep in shape, in the summer he’s been known to pick up a tan, and he has one tattoo—the word “love” written in morse code under the scar from where nancy burnt him with a hot iron [ .-.. --- ...- . ]

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holly in 2004

(holly is 24, about the same age as kristen bell so I kinda picture her from veronica mars season 1 but with long hair/dyed like cady heron from “mean girls”—holly watched the movie earlier that year and liked the look!)

outfits: low rise flare jeans, denim jackets, fitted shirts, canvas vans sneakers, low top converse

———————

el in 2004

hair: long, always past her shoulders at least—she doesn’t like cutting it short for obvious reasons—she also dyes it and never skimps on spending money to maintain it and loves adding things like butterfly clips or barrettes with sparkles

outfits: she loves fashion and experimenting with her wardrobe. lots of delicate details and whimsy. a lot of what claire danes and anne hathaway were wearing 2002-2004

what she’s up to: el never went to college, but attends a few business seminars in between all her world travels and eventually invests some of her government hush money into opening a vintage/antique shop in hawkins that her and joyce run together.

el’s exact outfit from ch 8!

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outfit inspiration for mike + will in 1999 (aka for ch. 15)

mike: black jeans, ochre yellow striped button down, and of course he would’ve worn his typical converse shoes if he had to physically travel to the house that night, but alas… lol

will: brown dress shoes (normally wears sneakers, but for special occasions he gets fancy), light wash denim with navy turtle neck, plus brown leather jacket

(yes… i purposefully made them wear each others colors 😏)

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the mood board i made for nancy + jonathan’s wedding in 1993

(i’ve posted this before but idk how many of you saw it lol)

of course there is more i could add and sadly there’s things i’ve since cleared from my phone like the picture i had saved of a wedding dress i thought nancy would wear… but if there is anything else you’d like to know, i’m always down to talk more about this story! send me a message—you don’t have to stay on anon unless you wanna, but i don’t bite!! ;)

#iawwyh #nonsense about my fic #if my drawing skills weren’t so rusty…#i would draw something from each chapter lol #very out of practice and no longer have my wacom tablet #and it would take me forever :(#so this was the next best thing for me :D

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