#it was going to be frisk and flowey talking about their regrets post pacifist route | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

thewhitefluffyhat · 3 years

Text

Thoughts on Deltarune Chapter 2

I wasn't even intending to write a Deltarune post, but here we are!

Have some extended ramblings/theorizing about Undertale, Deltarune, and the role of the "Player" vs character agency.

[Warning: full spoilers for ALL routes in both Undertale and Deltarune!]

Frisk’s Agency in Undertale

So I'm not sure how common this is nowadays (I haven't been following Undertale theories for a while), but I personally prefer the interpretation that there is no "Player" as an in-universe force in Undertale. I think it's a far more elegant story if the fourth wall isn't broken.

I'm also fond of the Narrator Chara and "Chara isn't pure evil until Murder Route teaches them to be" interpretations too.

And, of course, the third plank bridging those two is that I don't see Frisk as a just a pure, innocent cinnamon roll.

Because I like the story best when it's Frisk who chooses mercy or murder. It gives Frisk a much more complex character, if they are allowed to have the capacity for both immense kindness and immense cruelty. It even gives them an interesting implied character arc, if you take the natural progression path of True Pacifist > Murder Fun Times > Soulless Pacifist.

Just like Flowey, Frisk first tried to use their powers of Determination for good, but eventually they also grew curious and began to see the world as a game. And then they went too far and ultimately regretted it. Regretted it so much, in fact, that they were willing to sell their soul for just a chance to fix it.

After all, it's not you, the "Player," whose SOUL Chara wants. It's you, Frisk.

I also dislike the idea of an in-universe "Player" because that implies that "Frisk" is nothing but an empty shell - on ALL routes. All of those heartwarming moments in the True Pacifist route? All of the silly Flirt actions? Yeah, that's not Frisk, that's just as much the "Player" puppeting some poor kid's body as the events of the Bad Times.

Who knows what Frisk is truly like if their every action - good or ill - is controlled by some unseen, eldritch force? Now Frisk no longer has any characterization.

And given that said force overrides Frisk's agency, then isn't the "Player" evil no matter which route you take? It's become a story where they only "moral" choice is never to pick up the game at all. Hrm.

Anyway, but that's all Undertale. Which brings me to...

What the heck is going on in Deltarune?

Unlike Frisk=the Red SOUL in Undertale, we don't seem to control Kris=the Red SOUL in Deltarune. The game repeatedly underlines that the player only controls the Red SOUL, not Kris.

(Though, with stuff like the sound of the bathroom faucet only being audible when Kris's actual body is nearby - it seems like even when separated, the Red SOUL may still be perceiving through Kris's other senses besides sight...?)

With Spamton's dialogue and Kris's reaction after the non-Weird NEO fight, there's also a lot more emphasis in Deltarune of Kris (and the rest of the party!) being puppeted by some other force. And that's on top of all the stuff in the first chapter highlighting Kris/the Red SOUL's lack of agency.

Because of all those hints, Deltarune seems to be much more explicitly pointing toward that dark interpretation of Undertale - that the "Player"/Red SOUL is removing Kris's agency, regardless of route.

Indeed, I'm somewhat intrigued by the possibility that we/the Red SOUL might be forcing Kris to act nice just as much as we force them to act cruel. The way that Kris deliberately removes the Red SOUL in order to do some very suspicious actions might support that. As do some comments in Chapter 1, like characters in the post-Dark World walkaround noting how Kris is being less weird and more inquisitive than usual. Maybe Kris is the Knight and the Red SOUL is possessing them to undo their evil actions. Maybe the real Kris doesn't want to be friends with Susie and Ralsei at all!

But taking that interpretation to such an extreme also doesn't quite fit. Why does Kris slash the tires on Toriel's car? The only reason I can think of is that they want to keep Susie at their house. And why does Kris create the Dark World in their house? Is Kris creating the fountains because they want to have fun with friends? Especially right after the chapter emphasized how great the Dark World adventures were, that seems very likely.

There are also some smaller details too, of Kris interpreting the Red SOUL's input with their own spin (like saying things sarcastically), or of Kris chatting in a friendly way with Ralsei which the player/SOUL can't influence.

So, I'm pretty sure that even outside of the Red SOUL's control, Kris genuinely does like their friends.

Meanwhile, there were a lot of hints this chapter that Something Bad happened to Kris, Noelle, Dess, and Asriel when they went exploring in the forest by the graveyard. Most likely, they went into that ominous bunker south of the town. Is that incident related to Kris’s current strangeness?

And then, and THEN, there's the Snow Mercy route. That route seems to imply that the Red SOUL is both evil, and very much not Kris. Noelle says Kris isn't like themself, that their voice changes strangely, and she can still hear the creepy voice even when Kris is downed.

How to make sense of this all?

A Theory on Kris and the Red SOUL

One idea is that as scary and zombie-like as Kris looks without the SOUL, they're probably a nice, if lonely kid who desperately wants friends after their big brother went to college. (And possibly after something traumatic happened to them/their neighbor.) They're creating the Dark Worlds for the sake of fun and escapism.

But the Red SOUL puts an end to Kris's happy fantasies. Indeed, if the Red SOUL gives up, "the world is covered in darkness." So without the Red SOUL, would Kris simply keep creating fountains...? (What ARE the fountains, why can Kris and theoretically any Lightener create them?)

Maybe in the normal route, the Red SOUL is trying to gently help Kris move on and accept reality in some way. At the very least, I suspect Ralsei is working toward this goal.

But in that case... that's a pretty strange way for the Red SOUL to go about it, forcibly taking control of Kris to the point that the kid notices and seems to greatly resent it.

But what if the Red SOUL didn't have a choice about this arrangement either?

After all, the Red SOUL's customized vessel was discarded at the start of Chapter 1... and it was placed into Kris instead.

Here's a question: will Kris die if they're without a SOUL for too long?

Because there are an awful lot of moments in these games where characters break free of something they are bound to, but it doesn't end well: -Spamton collapses when his strings are cut. -The Darkeners can move freely outside their origin world for a while, but eventually turn to statues if they stay in another world. -Regardless of whether Berdly removes the Queen’s wires himself, he's exhausted and unable to fight any more after being under her control. -And when Kris takes the Red SOUL out of their body, their movements become slow and clumsy. Like it's a struggle for them to move at all.

Meanwhile in Undertale, post-Pacifist Asriel could maintain his form to say goodbye, but without SOUL(s), he inevitably returns to being Flowey.

So here's a theory: Kris died and/or lost their original soul. Perhaps due to some action/inaction on Noelle's part in the exploration incident. And as a last-ditch resort to keep them alive, the Red SOUL was somehow implanted in Kris.

(Also maybe Dess died/went missing at the same time...?)

And now, the Red SOUL the only thing keeping Kris around.

But just like in Undertale, it seems like Deltarune SOULs have wills of their own.

Which means Kris's current state is similar to the Chara-Asriel fusion, or Omega Flowey, or even Frisk-Chara. Control of the body is shared. The difference is that instead of the SOUL we play representing the original owner/will of the body, this time the SOUL we're playing as is the intruder.

Essentially, this time around we are playing the role of the Chara-equivalent instead of the Frisk-equivalent!

(Though whether Kris themself is more of Chara or Frisk I’ll leave to other theorists...)

Anyway, while Kris likely wishes to be rid of the SOUL and dislikes this whole body sharing arrangement, they know they can't survive without it. And perhaps Kris being in a partially soulless state might explain why they do questionable stuff like creating Dark Worlds and slashing their mom's car tires in order to play with their friends. (Again, see also: Asriel/Flowey.)

But when the Red SOUL and Kris are in alignment, things go okay. The Red SOUL suggests commands, but Kris is willing to follow and seems to enjoy being with Susie and Ralsei.

Let’s Talk About Snow Mercy

It's when the Red SOUL and Kris aren't in alignment... well. That seems to be what's happening in the Snow Mercy route. That kind of situation sure didn't go so hot with Frisk and Chara in Undertale, so I doubt this will end nicely for Kris and the Red SOUL either. At the very least, Kris seems to have been visibly upset after what happened with Noelle in this route.

(By the way, there are two other moments in Chapter 2 when Susie asks if Kris is okay - first after the normal Spamton NEO fight and subsequent discussion of what it meant and second after she and Kris approach the bunker.

Three different moments, but Kris appears to react similarly. Are all of these things related? The bunker, Kris being puppeted, and the events of the Snow Mercy route?)

Meanwhile, here’s a contrast. Undertale's Murder Route seemed to exist for the sake of curiosity and power - either the "Player" or Frisk's desires, whichever interpretation you subscribe to. And the changes to the world were all logical consequences of that - because of the Fallen Child's rampage, friendly NPCs disappear, major characters fight you more seriously, etc.

But the actions in Snow Mercy are... weirdly specific, weirdly unpredictable. It doesn't come across as a simple power trip. Instead, Snow Mercy is a bunch of really bizarre actions that feel even more mysterious to the player as they are to Noelle and Kris. I sure wouldn't have guessed that backtracking to the trash heap and freezing a bunch of enemies would lead to new items spontaneously appearing and then giving Noelle access to a scary new spell. It's like something straight out of a creepypasta!

The overall tone that comes across to me is that the Red SOUL seems to know what it's doing, even while the player is kept in the dark. And given Noelle's responses, it almost seems like the SOUL is trying to remind her of events/actions from her past, events which are obviously unknown to the player. All of which leads me to think that the Red SOUL has motives and goals of its own... so just like Undertale, this probably isn't a situation of the "Player" being a fourth wall-breaking force either.

The Red SOUL is its own character.

And I'm certainly curious to find out more about them!

#undertale #deltarune #deltarune chapter 2 #frisk #kris #chara #noelle #the red soul #no separate player #undertale analysis #deltarune analysis #my ramblings #read more #is this my first ever deltarune/undertale analysis post?#huh I think it is!#haha I guess I've always just been a reader until now

85 notes · View notes

argentdandelion · 5 years

Text

No Soul Necessary: Flowey’s Happy Ending (Part 1)

Introduction

Warning: This post necessarily covers Flowey’s dark, traumatic, and sad backstory.

In many works, Flowey gets a SOUL in a Post-Pacifist timeline, and is often “restored” back to Asriel with a Boss Monster body. Sometimes, it is implied this is only way for Flowey to be happy: that it is impossible to save him, too, so long as he is a soulless flower.

Yet, as the Flowey and PTSD series shows, having a soul is neither necessary nor sufficient for Flowey’s happiness. For one thing, six human SOULs apparently wasn’t enough for him to regain love nor compassion; he only got that after absorbing six human souls and the souls of almost every monster. More importantly, though gaining a soul might make it easier for him to be happy by letting him feel love and compassion again, it wouldn’t solve all his problems.

And Flowey has a lot of problems.

Well-Supported by Canon

These aspects of Flowey's suffering are well-supported by canon.

Guilt, Regret, and Self-Loathing

After the God of Hyperdeath fight, Asriel understands if Frisk cannot forgive them, and understands if Frisk hates them. He acted “so strange and horrible” and hurt many people; Asriel believe she has no excuse for what he had done.

If the game is started up again after everyone goes free, Flowey (despite presumed soullessness) says he can’t “go through with it again” (do the same actions to achieve that ending) if the world was reset, so whoever he’s talking to must erase his memories, too. He seems guilty or ashamed at his actions: he talks about the power Chara was “fighting to stop, the power that I wanted to use” (presumably the power of SAVE) with an expression that might be shame.

Furthermore, several prompts in for the flowerbed speech, Asriel discloses he’s blamed himself for the decision to not kill the humans attacking him the whole time. Apparently, a sense of guilt and self-loathing at himself for failing Chara and getting himself killed was why he adopted his “kill or be killed” view. Yet, after seeing Frisk (it’s unspecified when; it could be at the flowerbed itself) he doesn’t regret his decision anymore. He said he did the right thing, and he can’t regret hard choices forever.

Lack of Love/Compassion/Empathy; Difficulty Forming Relationships

Flowey cannot feel love nor compassion; it is likely anything approaching empathy eludes him. This is a major impediment to feeling fulfilling relationships. Indeed, the idea he couldn’t feel anything (loving) for anyone made him “despondent”, until he eventually coped by making himself a callous manipulator who didn’t (emotionally) need anyone.

Flowey’s difficulty in forming relationships is a similar problem. Solving others’ problems distracted or amused him for a while, but it didn’t really make him happy. His lack of love and compassion, as well as his ability to rewind time, led him to become estranged from others. People were reduced to sets of numbers, lines and dialogue.

Unable to feel love and compassion, Flowey's life was surely less happy than before. The closest Flowey could get to fulfilling relationships was just amusement at others, and with time he grew tired of it. He himself likes to think “there’s someone out there...someone that I won’t get tired of.” There’s only one person (Chara) he cares about anymore, and yet he says (with a sad expression) that he couldn’t really care about them.

Despair

Given how close they were, Chara’s death alone would have been enough for Asriel to fall into a deep depression. Yet, his suffering is only multiplied by several layers of trauma from the plan and its outcome.

Flowey/Asriel believes that, in refusing to kill the humans attacking him and getting killed himself, he “failed” Chara. He expects Chara to be mad at him for this.

Flowey discloses that, when he woke up as a flower, he “couldn’t feel anything for anyone.”1 He spent weeks with Asgore, trying to vain to feel love. Eventually, Flowey became so distressed at his failure he quit and run away. He went to Toriel, but even she couldn’t make him “feel whole again”. He became despondent: he decided to didn’t “want to live in a world without love anymore—a world without you, Chara”. He spent weeks with Asgore, trying to vain to feel love. Eventually, Flowey became so distressed at his failure he quit and run away. He went to Toriel, but even she couldn’t make him “feel whole again”. He became despondent: he decided to didn’t “want to live in a world without love anymore—a world without you, Chara”. Flowy then tried to “erase himself from existence”.

He discovered his power of SAVE after this, starting ‘Pacifist Routes’ of his own and solving others’ problems flawlessly. Their companionship amused him, for a while. But, as he repeated time, he found them predictable; without compassion, he grew estranged from others and saw them as just lines of dialogue and numbers.

He killed everyone in the Underground, just to add novelty to his boring life. But eventually, he grew tired of that, too. He was surely very lonely and thought his existence pointless, but the very things he had lost (and gained) with his new life as a flower trapped him in despair.

Extrapolations

While recurring elements in works set in a Post-Pacifist timeline, these aspects of Flowey’s suffering aren’t so well-supported in canon.

Body Dissatisfaction

A recurring element in fan works is Flowey’s dissatisfaction or distress at his new flower body, and its limits.

In the Genocide Route, Flowey shows fear and helplessness at realizing he can’t feel his arms and legs and how his whole body had turned into a flower. If he had some choice in form when absorbing six human SOULs, the fact he had two big, clawed arms may very well be a compensation for his long-lost limbs. As soon as he absorbs the equivalent of seven human SOULs, he takes a body identical to his old Boss Monster one, and says: “Finally. I was so tired of being a flower.”

In some cases, it’s hard to tell whether Asriel/Flowey is dissatisfied by what he is or who he has become in that new body; he might conflate the two and separate his existence into two identities.

Flowey is neither human nor monster, but a soulless, nigh-necromantic magic flower whose existence is utterly unprecedented. After attacking Flowey, Toriel calls him a “miserable creature”. Flowey describes himself and who he thinks is a soulless Chara as “creatures” as well. In his flowerbed speech, Asriel calls Flowey not a “he”, but an “it”, and tells Frisk not to think of Flowey as Asriel, saying: “I just want you to remember me like this. Someone that was your friend for a little while.” (It’s unclear whether he means “as a Boss Monster” or “as someone compassionate”)

Parental Separation

Even in works where Flowey gets a soul, "becomes Asriel", and has Frisk as an adoptive sibling as a sort of Dreemurr Family 2.0, things just aren't the same. Chara is still dead, and Asgore and Toriel are still estranged/separated.

It must have been a shock for a newly-awakened Flowey to go back home and find Toriel’s old throne under a sheet, and to search for Toriel for so long only to find she’s as far away as possible from Asgore. Realizing his parents, who used to be such sickening sweethearts, have separated and no longer love each other is bad enough. Knowing that they separated over Asgore’s declaration of war, which only happened because Asriel and Chara died, just makes things worse: Flowey might believe it’s (indirectly) his fault.

While Toriel and Asgore are probably not technically divorced in Undertale, Flowey could have reacted in a comparable way to the kids of divorced parents. After all, kids developing mild depression after their parents’ divorce in a common response. In fact, this “mild depression” can get worse; according to Helpguide.org, some of the symptoms, “frequent violent and angry outbursts”, “withdrawal from loved ones”, and “disinterest in loved activities” sound like things Flowey would do.

Uncertainty He Even Deserves Happiness/A Second Chance with a Boss Monster Body

In several fan works, Flowey/Asriel sometimes believes he doesn’t deserve happiness, and/or a second chance with a Boss Monster body. Regardless of form, he might believe he doesn’t deserve happiness because of all his terrible deeds, and also think he’ll only bring misery to others.

To this end, he might regret going up to the Surface with Frisk, or even seek isolation. Indeed, only Frisk knows Asriel broke the barrier, and Asriel spends the rest of his short existence as “himself” by the flower patch in the Ruins, apparently unnoticed. He doesn’t want his parents to know he was alive again, and won’t go up to see them, because he thinks it would just break their hearts. Furthermore, in some works, Flowey lives an isolated life in the Underground as a sort of prison sentence for his Flowey Run crimes.

While Flowey cannot feel love nor compassion, it’s still possible he could feel guilt and regret. It’s possible he remembers what it was like to feel love and compassion, even for a little while, and wants Frisk and the other monsters to be happy even if he cannot.

He’s certainly capable of feeling irritated at people, so presumably he meant an inability to love anyone and, perhaps, a flattened and incomplete emotional range in general. ↩︎

#Undertale #Undertale Analysis #Undertale Meta #Flowey #Flowey the Flower #Asriel #Undertale Character Analysis #No Soul Necessary: Flowey's Happy Ending

80 notes · View notes

pepper-mint · 7 years

Text

Story time(?)

When I started to know about Undertale AUs, I made quite a few (mostly for fanfics since I write sometimes) but never posted them here (except Lucky and Unlucky Sans, but they’re just a design I made for fun). Although, there’s one AU I never posted on any site because I thought nobody would like it. I made it even before I knew who Ink was, to one who inspired me to start posting art for this fandom, and on those days there wasn’t many AUs/I didn’t know many AUs, but now I see it again, I regret not posting it because there are a lot now and some things that looks like I took them from other AUs and I don’t want people to think I stole them from popular AUs. In that time it sounded interesting and cool to me and a few days ago I had a nostalgia attack from it xD so I drew the design again, keeping the things the look like from other AUs because that was how I made it and I don’t consider it as a copy… and now I want to share it with you!

Here we go *breaths*

BEWARE: VERY LONG DESCRIPTION

The AU concept is that, after finishing the first pacifist run, Frisk (a male on this AU) started a genocide route over and over… until one day, Sans managed to make him remember the good times he had with the monsters. However, this was just a strategy to distract him and kill him before he could do anything. Frisk started to feel guilty and pressed the reset button, but Sans killed him after he did it, making the timeline to glitch. The reset button was corrupted and destroyed, making lots of changes on the timeline’s code.

Frisk was sent to the beginning, but not alone. This time, Sans was with him in the beginning, confusing them more. And that wasn’t to only thing that changed: Frisk grew up to 14 years old (He was 8 years old) and Sans was again an 16 years old (in human ages, of course) monster (he also was shorter than frisk).

Sans ignored the weird changes and, still blinded by rage, tried to end the battle, until they noticed that neither Flowey nor Toriel had appeared. Making a temporal truce, they made their way into de ruins trying to get some answers.

What they didn’t expect was to some creatures made of black goop(?) started to appear and attacked them without mercy. Sans was the first to realize that they were the monsters that lived there, only that they were now corrupted beasts formed from their dust from the past genocide run. The timeline couldn’t reset itself and corrupted everything, even itself.

Frisk didn’t want to believe it, but it was confirmed when he found Toriel. The once nice goat lady transformed into horrendous creature and he had to fight her alone. Sans had teleported somewhere to look for his brother. The fight alone wasn’t easy, having to run away so he couldn’t get murdered. The fallen human felt like it was his entire fault.

Meanwhile, Sans felt like living one of his nightmares. He found his brother and he also was corrupted, not even knowing who his brother was and trying to kill him. He couldn’t do anything; he couldn’t stand looking him like that. Sans didn’t attack, jut dodged and tried to make Papyrus remember him. This actually worked, for his brother stopped for a moment, fighting himself with foreign emotions and vague memories of him living with his brother. Sans managed to approach him and gave him a hug, making the promise of find the solution to this chaos… but this only lasted a moment. Papyrus attacked again, breaking Sans’s left eye and trespassing a bit of the infected code to him. He was about to kill him when someone Sans thought was dead appeared and saved him: Gaster.

Since the code didn’t reach the void, the skeleton monster didn’t get infected and managed to enter the timeline. He took his son to his laboratory where Frisk was and took a bit of his cracked skull to investigate the virus. Frisk and Sans didn’t know what to do and felt miserable, thinking that this was their fate. Meanwhile Gaster studied the virus.

It took a few days, but Gaster found a little bit of hope: a program capable to change the code and stop the virus for reproducing. With that, he created a patch for Sans, so he wouldn’t become a beast. However, this wasn’t enough. They had to save everyone.

Using some of his previous investigations, Gaster created some weapons for Sans and Frisk, they were capable of capturing the creatures and teleport them to special cells where Gaster could investigate them. They took a long time, but managed to capture everybody. Now they just had to wait and find a cure.

The three of them lived a “peaceful” life, enjoining each other company and some good things that this corruption brought (such as the expansion of the barrier to the bottom of the mountain. They could now exit mount Ebott and explore the forest) until Frisk found something weird.

Flowey was missing.

The demonic flower wasn’t anywhere and that made them worry. They searched in every possible place, going pale when they found a tear on their dimension with some corrupted vine on it. Sans investigated and found the Flowey managed to open a portal to the anti-void, jumping to other dimensions and creating more weird beasts. They now had to go after him, traveling through different AUs and trying to not be seen by anybody.

ABOUT THE CHARACTERS:

badly drawn desing aaaaaa

Sans:

A now 16 years old Skeleton who wants nothing but sleep without worrying about crazy creatures trying to kill him. He’s a lazy and somehow strong monster and Frisk’s best friend. His left eye is corrupted, making his magic to work badly. His Gasterblasters now have their own mind and often disappear in a fight. He misses his brother and hope they can save him and everybody. His patch works as a mini PC and communicator. It gives him information about the AU they’re in and makes him able to see the creatures, since they aren’t visible outside his AU. His ATTACK and DEFENSE remains the same, but his HP grew to 5. The cure doesn’t work on him for some reason.

Frisk:

A 14 years old human. Frisk regrets his actions and feels guilty with all of this, but also is determined to save their former friends. He swore to not reset again once they turn everyone back, and now gives mercy to his enemies, even Sans who is now his best friend. Gaster made an artefact to him capable of use the powers of the six humans’ SOULS and materializes their power in a weapon (like the toy knife, the burnt pan and etc… only he doesn’t have to bring the objects in his bag). He also has the golden heart necklace as his armour and it gives him the ability to see the anomalies. Frisk is now more bad-tempered and often finds Sans’s puns… bad-timed *gets shot*

Gaster:

The former royal scientist who somehow managed to come back to his timeline (even though he’s still “dead”). Gaster is in charge of the search for a cure to the monsters and helps the “Anomaly Catching Team Aka ACT” to gather information of the AU they visit. He doesn’t let them see their friends very often since there’s a possibility of them getting corrupted by the virus. He misses Papyrus. He managed to make a cure to the corruption, but it doesn’t seem to work in the monsters from his timeline, only with monsters from other AUs. He gave it to Sans and Frisk so they could save other AUs.

Flowey:

He is the main enemy and the most corrupted being. Flowey is still conscious and wants to use his “powers” to destroy the multiverse. He can corrupt codes but it takes time to actually work… giving ACT chance to capture the creatures and restore them. It’s not a very good villain, hehe!

Goopy Beasts:

Former monsters now corrupted. They were created form the dust of ACT’s timeline and try to kill every non-corrupted thing. The cure (named RESTORE) doesn’t work with them since they’re dead.

AU!Beasts:

monsters corrupted with the virus. They have the same appearance as before being corrupted; only changing their colours to a grey palette. Once a monster gets infected, they become aggressive and attack everyone. The cure works perfectly on them, but they have to use it quickly before they change into a goopy beast.

SOME FACTS:

-Sans loves to sit on the exit of the underground and looks to the stars.

-Frisk makes fun of him being taller than Sans.

-Sans’s left eye glows red and blue. His eyesocket often shows some binary codes with “X” or 2 on them.

-They try to not be noticed from their AU versions but fail miserably… then run away.

-Frisk opens his eyes and talks normally on his AU. Outside it, he uses sign language.

-They have the exact outfit but with some changes.

AND THAT’S ALL!

Hehe… I feel better now I shared this! I didn’t do it for the reasons I told you before (Ya see? Sans’s outfit looks like Quatumtale!Sans even though I didn’t know the AU when I made it) aaaand because I’m not good making comics… like, serious comics. I’m better with fanfics! Anyways, hope you guys liked it. I’ll probably draw them more lkjdksjlk

AND PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT I MADE THIS A LONG TIME AGO WITHOUT KNOWING ANYTHING ABOUT AUS. THEY MAY BE SOME THINGS THAT YOU PROABLY SAW ON ANOTHER AU, SINCE SOMEONE MAY HAVE ALREADY DONE A SIMILAR THING. I DON’T KNOW ALL THE AUS. I LITTERALY CAN COUNT WICH AUS I KNOW AND THEY WON’T REACH 16

that’s all

bai

*runs away*

#i don't even have a name for this au #i wasn't thinking #it just came to my mind #i was new in the fandom #pls don't kill me #au #probably just trash #aaaa

187 notes · View notes

simonsoys · 7 years

Note

Aah, you've got such a good grasp of the characters' personalities, especially Sans, who I find very few really get right. Do you have any tips or guidelines on how to portray post-Pacifist Sans, both in the short and the long run, and possibly if Frisk or whoever else already Reset a True Pacifist Ending? That would be really helpful for those of us wanting to get him right. ^^ Thank you for your great Undertale talks!

Ahhhh I do my best! Sans is complicated, so it’s hard to know exactly what’s motivating him at any moment. And my Post-Pacifist Sans changes a lot from how he is during the game. And how he is in the game is a lot different from how I imagine he was when he was younger, too.

I think no matter how you write your Sans, you should have an idea of what his priorities are at each stage. People only change when some event occurs in which their current way of thinking is no longer appropriate, and needs reassessing. It’s a gradual change of traits, with a lot of overlap.

This gets pretty long.

Sans during the game:

Just wants to mind his own business, or at least, not get involved with other people’s.

Doesn’t want to be an active participant of any kind of outcome.

He’s naturally easy-going and gentle– he likes people and will help them out if it’s something that requires minimal effort and he can do in a half hour.

Motivated (generally) by immediate rewards. Wants to get a laugh out of someone right now. Wants to get a drink and play poker with dogs right now. Wants to sleep right now. He’ll make elaborate pranks and punchlines, but the payoff has to be immediate to be worth doing. No long-term investments. (This is a big reason he gets along so well with Toriel– they can just jump into joking around without any of the typical acquaintance building.)

The only exception is keeping Papyrus housed and fed. That is his ongoing bare minimum requirement that keeps him tethered to reality. (In the absence of Papyrus, we see he latches onto other people for structure, like Alphys and Toriel.) He can’t motivate himself, he has to be anchored to another person’s hopes and dreams.

There is a home and people he misses, but he doesn’t like to talk or think about them. He’s currently caught in between giving up on them completely and regretting and wishing he could’ve done something more. He has hidden bad feelings about the person he’s become, he knows he’s not living up to the potential others saw in him.

He doesn’t remember specific events between resets. He has the same deja vu as everyone else, and can read your face really well.

Nowadays he’s pessimistic (he wasn’t always), but is trying to convince himself to view things the optimistic way his brother does. You can’t get burned if you saw it coming– but he’s trying not to let that jaded part of him show on the surface. He’s not going to bring his brother down with cynicism. Instead, Papyrus lifts Sans up and inspires him to hold onto some hope.This is the core reason why Sans admires him so much.

I have a partner headcanon that Sans has vague knowledge of the Genocide run from the start, whereas Papyrus has vague knowledge of the Pacifist run. (Not the same as remembering things that have already happened!) With this in mind, Sans has always been expecting the worst, but still makes an effort to encourage the ending his brother talks about. He is more and more (pleasantly) surprised each time you do something good. A lot of the bros’ dialogue and motivations make sense when looked at this way.

Knowledge and secrets are the only power he has left. He likes people not knowing much about him for sure, so it’s incredibly difficult to get him to open up in any capacity.

My biggest sources of inspiration character-wise for Sans are The Dude from Big Lebowski, Ernie from Sesame Street, Kikujiro/Vincent from Kikujiro and St. Vincent respectively, and then a hint of my own dad who shares a lot of traits with Sans, particularly being personable and friendly, but defeatist about his own goals. He isn’t completely any of those people, but I borrow pieces of them.

The Dude: Pacifist, just trying to get through his own day and have a nice time, somehow gets dragged into other people’s violent problems. He gets angry and frustrated, but never retaliates. He and Sans seem to have roughly the same emotional range, so I ask myself: WWtDD? If a situation isn’t enough to break the Dude, it shouldn’t break Sans. The Dude keeps the angst levels in check.

Ernie: Deceptively witty. An asshole on purpose. Elaborate schemes to get out of doing work. His entire day revolves around getting Bert annoyed at him. Wants attention but doesn’t directly ask for it. But all the while keeping a cheerful and innocent demeanor. Ernie is the basis for his outward, casual attitude.

Kikujiro/Vincent: Aloof, never wanted to look out for their neighbor’s kid. Their kids are both sweet and believe that their babysitters have secret hearts of gold. They’re constantly distracted by their vices, but often turn those vices into bonding opportunities. Not fit to be parents, but in the absence of good parenting, they end up being meaningful figures by virtue of encouraging their kids and treating them with love. These two are the basis for Sans’ relationship with Frisk. Somewhere between parental figure and companion.

I also have a human!Sans design I use sometimes to snap him back in-character. He’s a greasy, unkempt, tired, vaguely 30-year old, and it’s easier to think of how that kind of person would react to situations and how other people might react to him.

The biggest thing is making sure he’s not TOO hung up on timeline shenanigans. While it’s something on his mind, I think people have it dominate his personality too much, when in the game it’s something he tries very hard to downplay.

For Post-Pacifist Sans, it’s a progressive replacement of each of the game-Sans bullets as his surrounding situation gets further away from what he’s used to.

First arriving on the surface:

His optimism borrowed from Papyrus paid off. He saw the worst outcome coming, but he was wrong. He begins to reevaluate himself, wondering what else he was wrong about. Eventually, he doesn’t need to borrow optimism from anyone– he can manage it on his own.

His new friendship with Toriel keeps him motivated. He cleans up more often and works harder. He fixes himself to be more neat and presentable. He tries to come up with new jokes and exercise his wit more.

Doesn’t ever return to *doing* science. Science is a big part of a past he left behind, and is largely contrary to “immediate rewards” and “not wanting to contribute to an outcome.” He absorbs it like crazy though– it still fascinates him and he wants to learn. Maybe he would find interest in Astronomy clubs, taking pictures and setting up his computer to scan data for alien signals. He remains paranoid about any meaningful work being erased, so it’s just a hobby.

Three years on the surface, everything has settled, monsters are almost completely living above ground, Toriel has her school:

Still has problems with being spontaneous because he’s still highly motivated by immediate rewards. He’s forgetful and can get caught up in his own activities when he was supposed to go do something else. Papyrus is still what brings him home each night.

—> At this point, if we’re talking about a Sans who has experienced a Reset (i.e. he has the photo of you in his workshop), the progress stops here. None of the following bullets take place.

After many years, and a final, conscious decision that there will be no more resets, he attempts to make lifestyle changes. He still dislikes being responsible for other people, be he dislikes seeing his friends unhappy even more. He’s missed important events for some of his friends (namely Frisk) and he feels bad about it. He shares his timeline secrets first with Frisk (who never heard the geno route dialogue), then Papyrus and Toriel (and maybe Alphys?). His trust circle is still very limited, and he sometimes leaves out details about his daily activities to maintain the feeling of “having secrets.”

He waffles a lot on just how committed and involved he wants to be. The disastrous dating attempts with Toriel happen at this point.

He’s trying hard to get himself to “normal” again. During this period, he’s really hot and cold as he oscillates between the old, apathetic Sans and the new, energized Sans. He’s more stressed and emotional than he has been at any point before this.

Five years on the surface, Papyrus moves out:

With a lot of reluctance, Papyrus splits from Sans to pursue his own adventures and goals elsewhere. Sans latches onto Toriel and Frisk to keep from being alone and maintain structure.

From that point, he changes the most. He’s breaking away from Pap, who has been the center of his universe for a long time. Papyrus doesn’t need him anymore, but Sans is needed elsewhere now, too.

Additionally, he finally surrenders and moves on from the people he misses. He will no longer make any attempt to go back to that or find a solution. He’ll always feel guilty about it, but is transitioning into feeling like his new place on the surface is just as much a home as the old place was. (I still haven’t figured out how or when I want to bring Gaster into the story.)

When he’s settled, his endpoint is someone who’s warm and easy-going. Allows himself to feel emotions, but still has to have a joke accompanying it. He’s not smiling ALL the time now (most of the time, but not always). A little more honest and open. Still a little regretful about the person he’s become, but trying to make the best of it. He’s not unrecognizable from how he was before, but he’s stabilized into something much healthier and less isolated.

Pre-Game!Sans: I haven’t sorted out what I think Sans’ origin story is, before the game and before Flowey. He could be anything, really. But working backwards, I think certain traits wouldn’t have been there yet.

I think more than anything he was a lot more open to caring. He must have cared about people a lot, given how he misses them, was happy with them, and how he clings to Papyrus, the only thing he’s got left, so tightly.

He probably recognized his own potential, and expected big things of himself. It wasn’t until later that he experienced failures and hit road blocks that he stopped believing in himself.

Not secretive in the slightest. It would be shocking for people to know how trusting and open he once was. No one was ever uncertain about how Sans felt about them. The secrets are a direct result of both Flowey and hiding his problems from Papyrus.

Not as tied to Papyrus early on. I feel a lot of his connection to Pap is because he’s the only one still around.

I don’t know if any of that helps with writing him?? Haha! Those are just the things I usually have in mind. I think having multiple characters to reference and pull from helps a lot.

#itsrainingsomewhereelse #ask #undertale spoilers #sans analysis #simon undertalks

143 notes · View notes

aundercuzsomeonetookitalready · 7 years

Text

The Genocidal Pacifist Route

So, I made a short post earlier on this, and am now making one more in depth to this AU style idea.

Again, it starts out normal. Frisk falls to the Underground and gets attacked by Flowey, but something’s off. Frisk has done a great many Resets, but they can’t remember them at all. They are no longer aware of the power inside them, and in a psychological problem are unable to access these powers either way. Frisk at this point is running low on Determination. They have only the slightest amount left, enough to maintain a healthy soul color, but it is no longer a vibrant red.

Flowey is the first to know Frisk’s memory is gone and finds it hilarious until he realizes Frisk is unable to use their power. He knows what Frisk is capable of, and if they can’t reset themselves back to the beginning, there will be no hope if they go full genocide.

Despite the potential, Frisk had never before completed a Genocide Route. The guilt would get to them, or they’d simply give up.

This is a timeline of the Routes Frisk has done.

Pacifist|You know the part where Flowey is wondering if you did the right thing by sparing everyone and leaving? That’s when they wonder if they could do it all over again, and when Flowey informs them it’s possible, they unconsciously end up resetting.

Part Genocide| They decided to try killing all monsters, but they weren’t strong enough and ended up stopping when Papyrus talks to you at Snowdin. They try to be good from then on, but when the time comes to leave, and they believe they’ve done it, it all resets without them wanting one.

Half Genocide| At this point, they are a bit unstable. They’ve gone full genocide and then ended up stopping after Undyne. Before unconsciously resetting again, they had a mental breakdown full of regret, fear, and confusion.

Pacifist| They don’t know how to make it stop resetting and leave it. They are more off now, though this time they tried being kind to all, and ended up liking the ending so much they didn’t want to leave.

Pacifist| They’re scared. What were they doing wrong? Why couldn’t they keep an ending? They try asking for help from others, but Flowey laughs, other monsters simply try to comfort them and assure them the other timelines were bad dreams. And Sans, well, Sans wouldn’t answer their questions.

No-Mercy| They try a new strategy and decide that distancing yourself is the easiest way to get through. They figure out how to consciously save, load, and reset.

No Mercy| They are barely aware of the difference between monsters now, except that they all are easy to kill and turn to dust. They are able to take control of resets. Flowey simply hangs around, kind of scared at this point, since they no nothing of course BUT the No Mercy runs Frisk has done.

No Mercy| They are very emotionally distant, and are getting the hang of the timelines.

No Mercy| The last route before they try Genocide.

No Mercy| kind of bored, distant, locked away emotions

No Mercy| Stopped after Undyne, regretful, coming back. Starting as well to lose memories of previous timelines

Neutral| Accidently kills Mettaton. And, they reset back to the beginning.

True Pacifist| thinks it’s over, unstable, is losing control over the resets, can no longer see saves unless they think about it. Can’t remember specific events from other timelines.

True Pacifist| Scared, can’t stop the resets from happening, but they can cause them. Can no longer see save points. Doesn’t remember much from the other timelines except that they happened, and the general summary of what they did.

No Mercy| Thinks maybe it was in the route they chose. They were wrong, and still can’t figure anything out. It doesn’t help they don’t remember the other timelines other than that they happened.

Pacifist| they’ve at this point forgotten how to reset. Knows that something is wrong, but can’t place it. Is having nightmares and flashbacks without knowing what they are.

Neutral| “kills”? Undyne-Confused, scared, just wants everything to stop resetting. Also an accident. They had a flash hallucination of a no-mercy route and ended up hurting Undyne.

Current| Can’t remember the other timelines, had a LOT of nightmares when they were younger, but doesn’t get them anymore. Little by little Frisks’ memory is returning, along with the mental and emotional problems that came with it. Only now that Frisks’ mind is more developed, they are able to handle everything a LOT easier than when they were young. They still don’t know how to reset, or how to stop them from happening, but they hope this time to get some answers as their memory returns.

___

The Route itself is not canon since you can’t stay with Toriel. In any case, again. Frisk stays with Toriel and is VERY clingy when they first fall. They get horrible headaches when around something for the first time, caused by memories that were repressed due to their low DT levels. If they were to begin to gain DT again to the point where their SOUL was as healthy as the day Frisk fell, their memories would be unlocked, so to speak. The ability to reset is HEAVILY influenced by Frisk’s mental state, however. Yes, DT does play a part in this as well, so combined with their HORRIBLE state of mind after so many resets and their unhealthy DT level, Frisk is now unable to reset, load, or even SAVE. therefore, this is a PERMANENT timeline. THe last one.

If it was an actual route in the game, you would have to completely uninstall Undertale, and then reinstall it in order to erase these effects. Another thing is that you have to have to play a certain number of routes in order to allow for this run. Your FUN level needs to be at 0, and a new stat would come into play. TD2

Trans-Dimensional-Determination

Like FUN, this is only able to be seen in the SAVE files themselves. Unlike FUN, this level cannot be edited. The level will stay the same after you close it out, and can only be changed through completing the routes. Actions will affect this level, as well as how many times you reset.

The Original TD2: “85″

Flee: +1

Spare: +4

ACT: +0

ITEM: +0

FIGHT: -1

Every Monster Killed: +5 -3

Boss Monsters Killed: +6 -2

Boss Monsters Spared: +6 -0

Every reset will take away 1 to 10 points from your TD2 until you hit 20. After this, you are unable to reset again, so whatever route you decide to go will be permanent for your game.

This is when you are able to take the Genocidal Pacifist Route and stay with Toriel. There are several puzzles, “quests”, and such along the way as you guide Frisk into growing up. You go to school, learn the language, make friends, and learn new skills as well. Your AGE stat will tell you how old you are and replaces the LV in the menu until you hit 19. Then it switches back to LV, and a human falls underground.

This human has a CORRUPTED SOUL. (link to my post on SOULS) They have already distanced themselves, and one by one begin to dust monsters behind your back. The child lives with you and Toriel for a short while, until you leave the HOME to meet some “friends” that you made, and return to an empty home.

You will go downstairs to an open door and a pile of dust.

“It’s a pile of monster dust. There’s a small, human sized footprint in it.”

The screen flashes red, and you then go on a journey to track down this child and be the ‘sans’ of this route.

To find the child, you basically have to follow a trail of dust. Horrible, I know. You get four confrontations with the child. Each is a chance to either SPARE or FIGHT.

In the fourth confrontation, however, there is no spare option. Like in Genocide, the child has proven they will not change, and you have no choice left but to FIGHT or Die. How you handle this is up to you.

Well, that’s pretty much the basic storyline of the Route. And also all I have. If you want to hear more about this go ahead and ask me! If you want to write a story or a short just be sure to either tag it GP!Route or Universe, or basically anything you do for it. I honestly would love to see someone take my idea and turn it into something REALLY cool. I wanna make a comic for this too, and I’ve already started a story.

Anyway, have FUN everyone, ciao!

#gp!au #GP!Universe #AU #undertale #the birth of a new undertale au #route #GP!route #genocide #pacifist #genocidal pacifist

0 notes