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aparticularbandit · 5 years

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Hey, have you seen the latest JtV episode yet? Wondered what you thought of certain developments.

so. i apologize ahead of time because this will probably get long. i plan to start with the non-rose and/or luisa scenes and then give a general idea of what i want to do with that discussion before throwing most of that one beneath the cut. i especially apologize to those of you on mobile because i know that it doesn’t always do the read more stuff correctly and i’m so sorry.also know that i. really don’t want to write this right now, but i want to get my thoughts out because maybe then i’ll stop ruminating over it (hah!).so, first of all, i’ve seen the scenes relevant to this discussion. which means i haven’t paid attention to the entire episode but i have seen rose’s scenes and luisa’s scenes (sort of) and then the scene in regards to mateo being diagnosed with adhd. i very rarely see the shows live, although i saw some of last week’s live, and typically scroll through spoilers to see if anything that interests me (rose or lusia) is in the episode. if not, i typically just don’t see it because, to be honest, i don’t care. spoilers give me enough information and while there may be scenes or moments that i’d probably like that i missed, i didn’t want to deal with love triangle fun with michael or most stuff with raf at this point because spoilers tell me the writing is very, very poor.which means that yes i knew about the adhd diagnosis and what i suspect is the real point of the question here - rose let luisa drink?! what?! - before seeing the episode. and definitely spent a good chunk of time ranting about the latter in the jtv discord spoilers tag before seeing the episode. and even knowing it was coming, it still depressed me. but that’s reactions, not thoughts, which. i have a lot. from different angles.i do want to address mateo being diagnosed with adhd. i’m not okay with this happening. while i do think it’s important for characters to be diagnosed with mental illness in media and i do think that it’s important to delve into those diagnoses, i don’t think jtv will do a good job with this because they haven’t done a good job with this previously. raf’s depression (again, didn’t see that scene, so going off of spoilers here) was mentioned once and then apparently hasn’t been brought up again (with the exception of potentially being implied with how much of a help luisa has been while he dealt with his break-up with jane and let’s be real here luisa knows more about mental illness at this point than most of the other characters except maybe petra and even then). petra’s postpartum depression was mentioned i think once and then wasn’t brougt up again. petra’s anxiety? i think it was? was mentioned in season one in relation to her taking pills and this was diagnosed while raf had cancer and…hasn’t been brought up again. in fact, the biggest proponent we have outside of this with how jtv deals with mental illness is luisa alver, and her mental illness is consistently used as a joke or a way to make her unreliable.now, yes, adhd is a learning disability and you can debate whether or not that constitutes a mental illness or not. i apologize if my lumping it in under the mental illness umbrella is a problem. this is not an illness that i myself have (as far as i know), so please understand that i mean no offense. my concern is that jtv does not deal with these sorts of things well. it uses them to drum up drama and then sweeps them under the rug as if they’re a passing thing that is suddenly better or not important until, like in luisa’s case, they want to use it as a plot point or a joke again. and the thing is that they already in the episode used mateo’s adhd to make a visual joke on what it was like to have adhd. this is not okay.further, their focus isn’t on the character who has the disability. they’re using the disability to drum up drama for the character’s parents. again, this is not okay. it is good to let the characters have that reaction to what the child is going through, but it may - or i’m concerned that it’ll turn into one of those moments where it focuses only on the pain of the parents and how they live with a child with this issue and not on the character who. actually has the issue. as someone with mental illnesses, this does not sit well with me.and they did this with nine episodes left. even if they were going to deal with this well, it’s hard to do so within nine episodes, especially considering the other threads they have going. at this point, i don’t trust the writers and i’m not okay with this happening. i dislike this development.now with regards to the rose and luisa scenes, in particular the scene they shared together and the developments from this–really there are two ways to take this as far as rose’s character interpretation (rose as a sociopath who truly loves luisa and for whom this development has an aspect that feels really out of character from what we have seen of her OR rose as a sociopath psychopath who did some has been setting up a lot of pins for a payoff that we…can guess would end with luisa finally officially choosing her? this one is a little more shaky) and two ways to take this as far as how this will work out in the show with regards to luisa (is she actually siding with rose or is she using this to fake her out and finally prove herself to raf once and for all).so. this is a long discussion. UNDER THE CUT.

so let’s start with the important thing: luisa signing papers while she was apparently black out drunk on rose’s submarine.the first thing i want to comment on in relation to this is that rose giving all of her bank accounts to luisa can have a lot of different implications. the first one, and the nicest in my opinion, is that consolidating bank accounts is something married people do. or they open a joint account. something like that. so, symbolically, you can have the implication of rose and luisa being married. woo-hoo! the second one is, again, the potential risk that rose is taking here. just like with her kill sheet, rose is basically giving luisa the keys to the kingdom where she is concerned, and for someone who (in my interpretation) has been under elena’s thumb and control for the majority of her life to just give herself over to luisa’s control says a lot about what luisa means to rose. the third implication will be addressed later.the second thing i want to comment on is, of course, the idea that luisa was black out drunk on rose’s submarine. now, when i initially was going through the spoiler tag, someone suggested that this might have happened when luisa was drugged on the submarine, which would imply that this happened during the period of time when rose took her to the sub. (i tend to not think that rose drugged luisa at that time; i actually think that luisa fainted shortly after rose revealed that she was susanna. but that might just be me.) however, based on the specific lines of the scene, this cannot be the case. in fact, it has to have happened after luisa initially left the sub. we know from s3 that during the time luisa was initially on the sub they were circling the great barrier reef (coral reef? they were circling a reef), not taking random vacations to other locations like madagascar. not only that, but rose says it happened while luisa was insecure about their relationship, and they were not in a relationship during the scenes we saw on the submarine. so this had to have happened sometime after that - maybe before we met eileen or maybe during the three year time-skip sometime at the beginning of all that. i’d guess before we met eileen, but that’s just me. further, i did look at screencaps from the scene where they ate breakfast on the sub because the back of my brain keeps trying to tell me that one of the men was carrying champagne, but while there were tea and orange juice cups (they did each have two cups, a white tea cup and saucer and a glass with a tropical leaf pattern - rose’s had orange juice so i assume that’s what it was for), in the caps i saw, there was no champagne bottle. but they weren’t all comprehensive screencaps so might’ve missed a thing.now, here’s where things are up to interpretation and it all depends on rose’s character.if we take rose as we have seen her throughout the series - not what people have said but what we have seen with regards to luisa - the idea that rose let luisa drink at all on the sub or while they were together feels completely out of character.rose consistently when no one else but luisa would likely know has made sure that luisa is not drinking. even from their first meeting, when luisa reveals that she’s been sober for thirty-four days, rose accepts that and doesn’t press and continues on as if it doesn’t matter (because it doesn’t). rose is the one who checks in on luisa after allison cheats on her to make sure that she isn’t drinking; rose is the one who brings up with raf that hey, maybe you should be concerned about your sister disappearing and when raf suggest (without any real concern at all) that luisa is probably on a bender calls luisa and tells her that she’s worried she’s drinking; rose is the one who, when luisa calls her (as susanna), chooses to stay with her and not judge her for taking rose’s death hard and actually accepts that this is hard for her; rose is the one who (as susanna) tells luisa to go back to rehab because she shouldn’t be drinking. this isn’t even getting into the time where rose just happened to call when luisa was going to try and drink in the hotel after emilio died. rose has a sixth sense when it comes to luisa. it is hard for me to see rose letting luisa drink on her sub in any capacity to the point that it is easier for me to think that rose forbade any alcohol on the sub at all. i could maybe hazard that one of the workers on the sub brought a drink back with them, and since the lettering in the sub appeared to be russian, hey, probably vodka, and we know from s2 that vodka is luisa’s drink of choice, but that’s a stretch for me.even more to the point - and this is a little off-topic in terms of talking about rose’s character - but the times we have seen luisa drawn to drinking were when her life was at rock bottom. the first time we see this is when 1) she’s losing her job; 2) her brother has cut her off; 3) her wife cheated on her (and they got divorced off-screen??); and 4) she almost got caught sleeping with her stepmother by her father. the second time we see this is when 1) her father died; 2) her stepmother/lover turned out to be a crime lord; 3) her father died because said stepmother killed him; 4) her brother thought her shares were more important than letting her mourn and only pretended to care about her because he needed to talk business with her and then disappeared after that yolo (and she only didn’t drink because 1) there wasn’t any alcohol in her fridge and 2) rose called her). the third time we see this is when 1) she accidentally got the love of her life murdered by trying to turn her over to the police by using herself as bait (among her listed reasons of 1) her brother doesn’t want anything to do with her and 2) her mother and father are dead). the fourth time we see this is when 1) luisa thinks that she is disappointing raf and failing him because 2) rose killed his mom and 3) she still wants to be with rose, albeit this last one is not something the show covers. please note the common threads here, and also note that this last one would put her in a place to potentially be drinking on rose’s sub if she was picked up by rose instead of going to preventative rehab like she decided to do with rogelio and also assuming that she brought alcohol on the sub with her while rose was preoccupied with something off of the ship. so, conceivably, luisa could have been in a place to drink on the sub. maybe. if that’s the timeline we want to go with. but if not, luisa probably wouldn’t be at rock bottom and probably wouldn’t feel so desperate to drink. luisa drinks when she needs to take the edge off. when she’s with rose, rose takes the edge off. so really i feel like this is kind of a little out of character for luisa, too.back to topic.the third thing i want to comment on is that rose has never made luisa choose between her and rafael. she’s never needed luisa to prove that she loved her. it’s consistently been rose proving her love to luisa because as the crime lord murderer sociopath it makes sense that rose would need to prove that she actually loved luisa (and i think i may have discussed this elsewhere - the entire point of chapter fourteen was proving that rose did love luisa, not just to her but also to the viewers - that rose’s love of luisa was not just part of the rose solano part she had been playing up to that point) there’s been no doubt that luisa does love rose, but there’s also no doubt that luisa has consistently chosen raf over rose.but this goes back to the submarine scenes in chapter forty-seven. the biggest conflict in luisa staying with rose is that she still loves raf. she asks to go up to wi-fi depths to see if raf emailed her, and when there is no email, rose uses this to say look, i’m the one who is here, i’m the one who loves you. she gives luisa the option to leave (just like she gave her the option to run away with her and respected luisa’s boundary when luisa said no; rose only took luisa with her once luisa fell in love with her again as susanna (who very clearly did not want to be around luisa or in that sort of situation with her. constantly. luisa pursued susanna, even when susanna visibly did not want to be pursued)). and when rose realizes that raf might have emailed luisa but they were a day off because time zones, she checks and gives luisa raf’s email. she gives luisa an option where she can still spend time with raf and rose will just wear a mask and pretend to be someone else. and when luisa was afraid that rafael’s cancer had returned and decided to leave and gave rose the option to stay behind, despite her certainty that rafael was working with the police, rose went with her. rose has not, up to this point, forced luisa to choose between them. rafael has. so for her to do so here and now might not be completely out of character and for her to ask luisa to prove that she loves her might not be completely out of character either (because relationships require both sides together and rose might be feeling like she’s pulling a lot of weight and not getting very much in return at this point. i mean. she is in jail because of how much trust she has given luisa, even knowing - from her time as susanna - that luisa can’t keep her mouth shut - and i want to address this in the latter portion of this exercise) but it still feels out of character because, again, rose has never forced that choice. rafael has.however.

if we interpret rose differently, based not on what we have seen with luisa but how maybe they want her character interpreted, then luisa drinking on the sub, as well as some other moments we really want to chalk up to rose being a useless lovesick lesbian, make more sense because as a sociopath they might be something rose would allow if she got something out of it.primarily luisa.and for this i kind of want to go in chronological order of what rose would have been doing when, which means we’ll kind of be addressing these a little bit out of order. ish.first, rose giving luisa her kill sheet. this is a big indication of trust. one that does eventually come to bite rose in the ass. and rose, because she was susanna, knows that luisa cannot keep her mouth shut when it comes to the police, so if they end up in that sort of situation, rose is screwed. rose knows she is screwed. rose knows she can get out of jail, so this is potentially not as big of an issue or indicator of trust as we think it is. but for luisa, it’s an indicator of trust and an indicator that rose will do what she wants.second, rose giving luisa rafael’s letter. we can assume from this that rose has access to luisa’s email account. it’s possible that luisa just stayed logged in. who knows. for this interpretation, we’re going with the darker version of rose, so let’s assume that rose just reads luisa’s emails to make sure she’s not getting anything that would distract her away from rose. in this case, yeah, rose gives luisa rafael’s letter because 1) there’s nothing inherently dangerous or coded in what he said, so far as she can see, and 2) it gets luisa to trust her as someone who, seeing this, would want to allow luisa to still have her relationship with raf.third, rose coming up with an idea that allows luisa to have the best of both worlds, basically. again, an indicator that rose wants to be family and will do what she has to in regards to being with luisa. 1) rose’ll wear a mask, and 2) rose won’t kill anyone anymore. surprisingly for this interpretation, she does stick to the second one. but this plays into her plot anyway.fourth, rose getting luisa drunk and signing her accounts over to her. assume that rose notices that there’s alcohol on the ship where luisa can get it or that luisa brings alcohol on the ship and rose pretends not to see it so that luisa can get drunk. signing her bank accounts over to luisa does two things: 1) it reinforces that she trusts luisa and gets luisa to trust her and 2) it ensures that if rose gets caught luisa is part of her getting out. no matter whether luisa wants to be part of the plot or not, she is an accomplice based on her name being on the accounts. this makes luisa look shady to rafael and drives a better wedge between them.fifth, rose getting caught. now, again, there’s a risk, but rose thinks she can get out of jail. either rafael finally catching her despite luisa’s insistence that he is good will cause a final break between them or her continuing indication of doing what luisa wants and proving to her that she loves her will get luisa on her side. even with michael - that might be about them, but it’s more about i played ball for you. i have done everything you asked. i have shown you nothing but love and support. i have never asked you to choose. now choose me.it’s a multi-year timeline set-up to make luisa trust her and her love while also simultaneously driving a wedge between luisa and raf. and right now, it looks like it’s working.now - the problem i have with this is that it seems much more indicative of a cold-blooded psychopath than the hot-tempered sociopath that the show consistently tells us rose is, so it’s…. for me, it checks out, and it’s not too much of a stretch and i think it may be what the show wants us to pick up on but is not doing a very good job of showing. (this would have been strengthened if one of the guys on the sub had been carrying a champagne bottle, which is why i wanted to check that - and it’s possible that’s still the case because the screencaps i checked weren’t that specific.) but, again, it’s up to character interpretation and i do think that this is the direction that the show wants us to go in.even in this direction, we can say that rose’s continued care in regards to luisa not drinking 1) reinforces to luisa that rose cares about her (and this is compounded with rose’s sixth sense and calling just when luisa needs her - once on the bridge right before luisa jumped and once when luisa wanted to drink after emilio’s funeral) and 2) is a bit of a self-preservation habit because luisa likely talks a lot when she’s drunk and, ah, given the sensitive nature of their relationship, luisa needs to not talk about them. in susanna’s case, the second isn’t a thing but it makes her look like a good girlfriend to anyone watching and so more solidifies susanna as a good person and not the mole.do i like this interpretation? no. do i think it’s what the show wants us to go for at this point? yes.now, as far as ways this could go - there are two:1) luisa is actually working with rose. this is the good end in the first scenario, but the bad end in the second one. since i think the show wants us to go with the second interpretation, i think it’s more likely that2) luisa is working against rose. this is the bad end in the first scenario, but the good end in the second one and the one that, again, i think is more likely given what we know of the show at this point. and by what we know, i mean the instagram photos of the last day of shooting wherein yara - luisa - was at what appears to be a jafael wedding but bridget - rose - is nowhere to be seen. and, yes, we could make assumptions that rose could be there under another mask, but i don’t think that’s the way the show is going to go.especially since jennie has already told us that a death is coming near the end of the season. i expect luisa is working against rose, and i expect that rose will die. that might not be what’s going on, but i think it’s the most likely scenario given what we have.

#jtv spoilers #roisa #rose solano #luisa alver #mateo villanueva #monadique #musings #bandit rants #bandit analyzes #here #my thoughts #idk how long this is #it took over an hour to type up #so that's a pretty good indicator of how long this is #there's a lot of thoughts

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