#is COMPLETELY fair esp as the creator of the fucking show

[br1ghtestlight]

people who complain about bob's burgers becoming more family friendly and therefore "worse" really do not mean anything to me bcuz they've fully stated their reasons for why it became more kid-friendly after season three and i think thats completely understandable and they're allowed to do whatever they want with THEIR SHOW!!!! and honestly the quality hasn't gotten any worse they just swear slightly less than before and make less references to sex but like they go to strip clubs and get drunk etc so its not a fuckign nickelodeon show or anything.... idk object shows are kinda the same where they had more cursing and violence earlier on but now they try to keep most shows kid-friendly (generally speaking in the osc) not because they HAVE to but because its an active choice that they're making. maybe if you literally only like adult cartoons for the raunchy humor yeah you're not gonna like the later seasons as much but quality-wise they're still entertaining so?? maybe go watch family guy or something idk

#i understand not liking that some episodes now feel like they have moral lessons at the end or whatever #but this isn't really what people are talking abt its been a complaint since season 3 or 4 #and I KNOW u guys like seasons 4-8 so its not the same reasons everybody seems to hate later seasons (even if i dont agree w/ that either) #speaking as somebody who has also made active choices in how my characters and their stories are protrayed in a kid-friendly community #also sometimes u want to watch ur OWN show with your nine year old kid and you don't want them seeing all the molestation jokrs which like #is COMPLETELY fair esp as the creator of the fucking show #go watch family guy idk #txt #bob's burgers

[serenagaywaterford]

1) Hey, it's me again. The idiot rambling anon. I wasn't gonna spam you again, but then I read your responses. At this point, I'm convinced you're my alter ego, lol. My thoughts are all over the place, but I'll try to organize them. So, about Nick. I've purposely avoided talking about him so far, but why the hell not? Let me make one thing clear: I'm NOT of of those thirsty fangirls. But even if I was? I wouldn't get offended or butthurt, because another person likes different fictional

2) characters (of all things) than me. I mean, big fucking deal. Each to their own, no need for apologies. ;) (My tone is a little aggressive, I know, but I’m sick and tired of some people on social media –in and out of fandoms– acting holier-than-thou and sending hate messages and even actual death threats (!) to creators or people that express unpopular opinions*. It’s reached a point where many people feel the need to put disclaimers in their posts so as not to be attacked.)

3) Back to Nick. I liked him just fine back in early S1, when he was all mysterious and his background story was unknown to us. When we did learn about it and the fandom started acting like he’s that pure, handsome angel uwu? Nah. Obviously, he’s no Fred/Serena/Lydia,but he’s not a “cinnamon roll” either. (Imo, the only decent dude on that show is Luke.) I mean, if Nick was SO altruistic, he wouldn’t have joined this job. Or even after everything went down, he could have tried to help other

4) handmaids without expecting anything in return. But no, he only helps June and that’s because he’s in love with her. I’m not blaming him for trying to survive under such circumstances, but I won’t idolize him either. Now, in s2? I’m kinda neutral about him. I don’t hate him, but I can’t say that I’m a fan either. Not gonna lie, he bores me at times, because he’s just… there. No sparks, no fireworks. Not sure if it’s the writing that doesn’t do the actor any favors, but his acting hasn’t

5) really drawn me in yet. A counterexample to this? Aunt Lydia. Her personality is despicable 98% of the time and yet. Dowd’s captivating performance makes me want to know so much more about her character.) On the other hand, I’m glad that June has someone (besides Rita) to back her up in that hellhole. She needs comfort and allies. But the whole ‘tRu Love 5eva" fanon thing? No, thanks. Not only it doesn’t fit the tone of the series, but I also believe that sharing an intense, forbidden love/

6) during such a shitstorm is not the same thing as keeping it alive after all is said and done (post-Gilead). Maybe they’ll stay together (as long as Nick doesn’t die), maybe they’ll fall apart. I can’t really see June romantically reconnecting with Luke either. After everything she’s been through… She’s a completely different person now. Unfortunately, the same things goes for Emily and her wife. Even though I’d love to see her interact with both her wife and her child in S3.

———

My inbox is so beautiful right now! Never, ever call yourself an idiot, my friend. (If you are, then so am I!) Brain twins, you see.

(Also sorry about this being out of order lol.)

I was trying not to talk about him too cos generally I just … I prefer not to think about him much. The fangirls, just, *sigh*. I try to avoid as much as possible in this fandom, esp on tumblr. Just hang out in my quiet little, not-Serena-hating corner. I always feel a need to put disclaimers these days cos as much as I don’t really care about random hate, I’d prefer not to have to deal with dogpiles or to look at it lmao. Like people can go around just hating on any character here–especially if they’re women–but say one critical (not even hateful) thing about their male fav and things just go off. 

I’m more than aware the majority of people don’t like Serena and think she’s the worst thing ever. And fair play! (I get it… cos I’m not delusional. She’s awful.) Each to their own. I don’t go around bitching at people who say shitty things or stuff I don’t agree with, or blocking anybody who doesn’t like her. (There are a few posts I do engage with cos normally they seem like they want to go deeper in The Discourse but most Serena/Lydia/Eden/Janine/June-hate I just ignore.)

ITA. S1 was, like, okay. That’s Nick. What’s he up to? What’s his deal? (I don’t really care but I’m not opposed to him either. Just like I didn’t care about Luke’s backstory/escape.) He’s trying to be good to June and she needs that.When we did learn his backstory I was not pleased cos he seemed like a twerp but whatevs. Grey characters are grey. It wasn’t until S2 that I started to get irked by him (and the hypocrisy of his fans but that’s a whole other issue). 

I can’t agree ANY more with your assessment of Nick. Like that’s EXACTLY what I’ve been saying! Firstly, he was RIGHT THERE when the Handmaid/Ceremony thing was first suggested and was like “Oh, yeah, great idea!” to Fred. I get that perhaps he was pressured to go along to keep his job but that’s a stretch imo, and if you can give him that sort of leeway, why can’t characters like Eden, Serena, Lydia and June get the same benefit of the doubt for certain things? Why is Nick’s pressure to keep his job more important and forgivable than anybody else’s pressures? It’s like that entire scene doesn’t exist to fangirls and Nick is so precious and in love and wonderful. Then there’s the rape of June. Like I know it’s pretty controversial to look at it that way, but that first time, with Serena overseeing it like a fucking creepy pimp (YUUUUUUCCCKKKKK I HATE IT THANKS) was rape. June barely knew the guy and I’m pretty sure if she wanted to have sex with him it wouldn’t be like that! And sure, after that, it was totally consensual but that first time was not. And I’ve heard the justification and excuses of “Well, Nick didn’t have a choice either!” which I call bullshit on, cos Nick is not some powerless delivery boy. 

He’s a fucking Guardian who is tight with the top Commanders. He’s a man, if nothing else. Serena can act all high and mighty but she’s still a woman in a highly misogynistic society. I’m not convinced Fred would take his wife’s word over Nick’s tbh, especially if it was like “Dude, your crazy wife asked me to fuck the Handmaid you’re obsessed with”. If he really didn’t want to do it that badly, he could have taken that chance to report Serena. Even if Fred wanted to keep it hush hush away from other Commanders, he would have gone after Serena. Men are far more likely to turn on women than each other, esp in THT. But that’s just my take. Maybe I am missing something about Nick’s status. To me, it was like double rape. Neither of them wanted to do it, like that anyway. But Nick also did fuck all to stop it when IMO he did have some power to do something. He is not a helpless victim in that society, imo. Again, probably not a well-received opinion. 

Don’t even get me started on his “Poor me!” routine in S2 when June tells him to have sex with Eden. I’m glad she called him on that bullshit. (But again, over the fangirls heads. Enough about them!)

Basically, everything Nick has done wrong isn’t his choice; he’s just a victim. In a story about women, Nick’s victimhood at the hands of these nasty women and men is the real issue. Blah. Whatever.

I just find Nick lacks total self-awareness about being part of the shitty ass system. He kind of just floats around thinking nothing is his fault and he’s blameless for it all, and he certainly can’t seem to see it from anyone’s perspective except his own. He’s upset about Fred & June’s Jezebel trips, not for her own safety or well-being but mainly he’s jealous. Of course he’s concerned about her safety but I believe it takes a backseat to his jealousy. He just seems to never take any responsibility for anything.

And BINGO about the previous Handmaid. Nothing we’ve been shown has given any hint he cares about any other woman’s plight in Gilead other than June, and only cares about her cos he had a crush/fucked her/is in wuv wiv her. Basically, she’s HIS so suddenly he cares about her. Look how fast he dumped that Martha as soon as he got brooding about June. He’s done fuckall for anybody except himself and that alone makes me dislike him. He’s no better than Fred in that way for me. But where Fred can occasionally be an interesting villain, cos Fiennes is nasty good, I find the actor who plays Nick just… not engaging. And he’s not SUPPOSED to be a villain! He’s meant to be a good guy! It’s crazy. He’s not compelling, he’s not interesting. He’s bland. He’s not even good looking, lol. I was watching with a friend once and mention I thought Fred was way better looking than Nick and she just stared at me and said, “You shouldn’t say that. But me too.” So, count me in the camp that just does not get the appeal of the character OR the actor.

I don’t hate Nick generally. I am just totally indifferent to his existence. If he left the show tomorrow, I’d shrug and probably be a little glad I don’t have to see that bland moping anymore. If he stays, oh well. Shrug. And I just don’t want his and June’s star-crossed romance shoved down my throat. It’s so… I dunno. I’m not opposed to June finding solace and hope but making it some beautiful forbidden romance, I’m not buying it. Like you said, it’s all well and good in Gilead–but it doesn’t strike me as something that can be sustainable outside it. To borrow from you last time: It’s the Handmaid’s Tale, not The Guardian + the Handmaid’s Tale.

Okay, enough about that pipsqueak. I don’t even like talking about him, tbh. He’s not worth it when there’s so much else going on.

ITA about Luke/June too. I feel like the level of disconnection and trauma that they’ve sustained, especially June, they can try to reconnect but it’s pretty difficult and I think especially with June having a sexual/romantic relationship with Nick pulls that really tight. It’s just two different planets they live on now. I don’t doubt that she still loves Luke, but actually reforming the relationship they previously had seems like an impossible task considering everything both of them have been through. It’s sad, but … sadly true for many people. Relationships can fall apart for far less.

And on the same page about Emily/Sylvia too. She is just soooooo fucking broken, and hopeless, that if they have them just rekindle with no issues, it’ll be bad writing. (I dunno if you see spoilers but there’s one about them.) She needs therapy so much more than a cutesy feelgood storyline.

Back to Lydia: Exactly! There’s a character we know very little about and who is a horrible person, yet the performance by Dowd makes almost everyone go, “TELL ME MORE!” With Nick, it’s the opposite for me. I’m just like, “Please, less of this.”

#Anonymous #rants and raves

[bluefloret]

This Post Got Very Long I recommend hitting J Now

Hey. I wanna talk about That Post.

I totally get what you’re saying! People should absolutely be mindful and conscientious about the content they create, particularly when portraying trauma of any sort. And you have the right to say that, it is a valid statement. But the fact that I had to take a step back, breathe deep, and go looking through your tumble in search of clarification just to understand what you meant really says that your original statement was very, VERY poorly worded. I cannot understate how poorly worded your statement was, no matter how accurate it may be.

In addition, I think you are conflating people writing about trauma with people JOKING about trauma they’ve written about/plan to write about? People write about trauma and put their characters through bad things for many reasons, and I’m sure you know that. But your original post seems to imply that by joking about what people put their characters through, they are somehow disregarding or disrespecting the trauma itself. 

I am sure there are people who put little thought into what they do to their characters, but the vast majority of serious writers think very carefully before doing things like that. Moreover, these things are often either reflections of things that have happened to those writers, or heavily researched because they want to be as accurate in their storytelling as possible even if they’re not worried about being respectful. These characters are our babies, they’re part of us like even children cannot be since they came out of our minds and we shape every part of them- yes, even their trauma. And no one is going to care about them like we do, that’s a fact. And- I’m sorry, I’m actually getting a little upset. Calming down, refocusing. Woo.

Look, you make a very good point, but the way you stated it was incredibly tone-deaf and disrespectful of the content creators. The comics do not show flippancy towards the traumas we write, they show solidarity with other content creators who are also struggling to do their characters justice and approaching the difficulties it poses with humor and community rather than shame. 

Comments like the one you made, however well-meant, are the same sort of hurtful comments many deal with or have dealt with from their abusers and the abusers’ enablers: that these topics are shameful and should not be addressed in polite company, never with humor, and certainly not taken out in a constructive manner in order to work through things and get better, and also do not look for community because what you are doing is trash and anyone who would agree with such comics is also trash and none of these people deserve any support. 

This is probably not what you meant to say or even imply, but that’s what happened anyway, and it also seems like instead of saying “I’m sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings (you did), I did not mean to, what I meant to say was THIS…”, you’ve sort of gone “well that’s not what I meant and if they thought I meant that they’re just wrong and probably butthurt about nothing.” Like, you seem to have either misread the situation so badly or misspoke so badly that. Honestly I am not sure what words to use here. You really fucked up, I’m sorry. You had a valid opinion and you spoke it in the worst possible way, like it came for people’s souls and it was obviously devised to hurt, even if you ended up hurting people you didn’t mean to.

It reminds me of that comic, where the woman says when was hurt because of what someone said. That person says they didn’t mean to, and she responds that she understands it was unintentional but she was still hurt and deserves an apology, to which the other person only replies again “but I didn’t mean to!”

If you have read to the end of this, I respect your tenacity because I realize I am not at my most eloquent and also not saying the kindest things, so if you got this far, thank you.

Okay so I’m just going to break down my response to this, cause I already know it’s going to get long. But. I’m going to have to disagree on some things here. So I’ll just take it piece by piece. 

I totally get what you’re saying! People should absolutely be mindful and conscientious about the content they create, particularly when portraying trauma of any sort. And you have the right to say that, it is a valid statement.

First of all, thank you for acknowledging this. I appreciate that. 

I cannot understate how poorly worded your statement was, no matter how accurate it may be.

Some people have said this before you. To which I point out that it was a off-the-head post I made early in the morning to an audience that usually gives me an average of 2-6 notes per post. I had no idea the breadth my post would gain in just a few short hours, let alone the days since. My post was never intended for an enormous audience. And if you respond “Well you should make every post with the thought that it might blow up” that’s just… unrealistic? I was mad about a thing, I make a quick text post thinking 2 people will see it. I can’t write a formal essay of points every time i have a minor irritation. That’s all it was meant to be.

But your original post seems to imply that by joking about what people put their characters through, they are somehow disregarding or disrespecting the trauma itself.

Here’s a problem I have with the rest of the argument you outline, and it starts here. People joking about abusing their characters absolutely can disregard the abuse you’re putting them through. Which is what my post was about, people who joke about trauma in a way that is disrespectful and shows a fetishistic nature. People joke about abusing their ocs and writing abuse in a way that implies that they are gaining gratification out of the act of harming their ocs often enough that it’s something that becomes disrespectful to the sensitivity of the topic they’re writing.

You can’t tell me you use the internet and haven’t seen people make the comics like the one I was referring to, use phrases like “I love this character, I can’t wait to beat them up >:3″ or talk about how much they love seeing their favorite characters bruised and broken and crying. People LOVE that stuff and it’s everywhere. Go into any fanfiction tag and you’ll see loads of fiction about tearing characters apart. Now is that instantly bad? No, I’ve already covered in other responses how I don’t believe writing dark fiction or trauma is automatically bad. But, often you will find people really, really enjoying it in a way I find CREEPY and DISTURBING and I will not hesitate to tell you that!

I am sure there are people who put little thought into what they do to their characters, but the vast majority of serious writers think very carefully before doing things like that. 

Where is your proof of this… how can you personally prove to me that a “majority” of “serious writers” (with no quantifications) take trauma seriously and don’t fetishize it. 

In turn, it is only fair that I admit I can’t prove the opposite, but I have existed in this life and on the internet long enough to see plenty of fanart, fanfiction, and canon media and writing that fetishizes abuse. 

Moreover, these things are often either reflections of things that have happened to those writers, or heavily researched because they want to be as accurate in their storytelling as possible even if they’re not worried about being respectful. 

1: Just because you research it doesn’t mean you’re being respectful. 

I don’t give a hot damn if someone puts 100 hours of research into reading about abuse if they STILL are really creepy and disrespectful about it! Why would I want someone writing abuse if they aren’t going to be respectful about it? They’ll just reinforce negative stereotypes or, again, fetishize it or romanticize it. In that case I prefer that they had NEVER WRITTEN IT AT ALL. It’s like a straight person who researches gay people then writes a gay character with a bunch of negative stereotypes and makes them into a walking joke. “But at least they wrote a gay character” is no defense, they’d still have fucked up the writing really bad and I still would’ve prefered they hadn’t done the character in the first place.

2: And this is really going to shock you, but, abuse survivors can write and talk about abuse in a disgusting manner as well. 

Every other damn note in my post is someone going “UMM OP IM TRAUMATIZED SO I CAN DO IT?” and like. If you’re a trauma survivor and you want to project trauma onto your ocs, that’s fine! I never said that was wrong. What I was critiquing was the fetishistic way people talk about abuse, and guess what, abuse survivors can do it too! I’ve had abuse survivors be abusive and talk about abuse in a way that makes me HIGHLY uncomfortable. It sucks and it’s a terrible thing to go through- abuse- but that doesn’t mean you get to talk about abusing your characters IN A PUBLIC SETTING in a way that sounds incredibly creepy! If it’s in pubilc you can be exposing other abuse survivors to your language and actions and it is completely irresponsible to not take responsibility in that case and be extra mindful of how you portray your own ocs that have went through abuse.

(Also not that you would have seen it since my post exploded, but in the very original post I did make a tag specifically calling out non-abuse survivors for this behavior)

Look, you make a very good point, but the way you stated it was incredibly tone-deaf and disrespectful of the content creators. 

1: I am a content creator you ding dong. I write stories and make art too. 

2: Even if I wasn’t? How does that take away my ability to critique content creators portraying a thing badly. Can gay people no longer talk about creators being homophobic? Trans people can’t point out transphobia any more? If you’re going “no, no, that’s not what I meant” then what DID you mean. I have every right to critique how people treat a subject that’s personal to me, especially when they haven’t experienced it.

The comics do not show flippancy towards the traumas we write, they show solidarity with other content creators who are also struggling to do their characters justice and approaching the difficulties it poses with humor and community rather than shame. 

I mean you’re just pulling words out of your ass here. You literally just invented this meaning. “But Saraza, THIS is what those comics mean” you say. Um, okay, but it doesn’t and you don’t get to be the definer of that. Especially using the word ‘solidarity’, if that implies you are on the outside looking in on the topic of abuse (which I have no way of knowing and won’t presume about you).

In fact I am holding this discussion purely on the chance that you might be an abuse survivor and therefore might deserve a response, but I hope you know that if you aren’t an abuse survivor you have literally no place in this discussion. Like, I won’t make assumptions about you, maybe you are and all this was in your place, but if you aren’t, don’t ever bother responding to me again. 

Comments like the one you made, however well-meant, are the same sort of hurtful comments many deal with or have dealt with from their abusers 

I hope you know how literally disgusting it is to compare an abuse survivor to being an abuser just because I asked people not to fetishize abuse. 

Like I entertained the rest of your argument but you have GOT to know this is just a vile, ugly thing to do. 

This is probably not what you meant to say or even imply, but that’s what happened anyway 

WHY ARE YOU BLAMING ME FOR OTHER PEOPLE’S MISINTERPRETATIONS OF MY POST AND NOT ARGUING WITH THE IDIOTS WHO CAN’T READ. 

I can not comprehend how entitled you people are with how you demand that I defend and explain words I NEVER said and arguments I NEVER made. Go argue with the people who can’t fucking read my posts maybe????

It’s neither my onus, duty, or responsibility to explain meanings I never made. I can extrapolate on my original post but if you’re asking me to apologize for arguments OTHER people made on my post, I literally don’t know what to tell you other than. What the hell. 

and it also seems like instead of saying “I’m sorry if I hurt anyone’s feelings (you did), I did not mean to, what I meant to say was THIS…”, you’ve sort of gone “well that’s not what I meant and if they thought I meant that they’re just wrong and probably butthurt about nothing.”

I’m just flat out not going to apologize to people upset about things I didn’t say and didn’t do??? It’s not a case of “I did something wrong unintentionally and therefore I should apologize anyway”, it’s a case of “I did nothing wrong but everyone is taking my words out of context and yelling at me for things I never said”. Which, I don’t feel the need to apologize for, shockingly!

In fact part of the abuse I experienced was being constantly forced to apologize for anything and everything that wasn’t even my fault just to make my abuser happy. So, it’s no surprise that I don’t want to do that here???

If people want me to clarify my wording I’ll do that all damn day but if people are going to be mad about stuff I never said, that’s their dick to jerk. 

Last of all, you’re a markiplier fandom blog literally what do I care what you think

#that one post #abuse / #abuse post #LONG POST #TEXT HEAVY #submission #oceantxt #abuse