#anyway it fucks me up how much agency WWX denies Jc and how much complexity he refuses to see

[beartes22]

Constantly thinking about how WWX thinks about JC how he thinks JFM thought about YZY but mostly as how he denied and yet carelessly commented JFM thinks (disregards) about JC

It is so, so, so fucked up and one of the reasons why chengxian is so doomed by the narrative bc no matter what JC does or says, WWX already "knows" what is about. Bc JC is his shidi and WWX knows best. And still, pre masacre, pre core exchange, it could have work. It could have, because they love each other so much but JC lost his core. WWX thinks he chose his parents. He thinks Jc choose the dead bodies of his parents, a filial duty, over survival, over him. And he never forgave Jc for it.

Bc now is WWX turn to assume the consequences of his shidi actions, now it is his turn to bear the pain for him. And he does not do it with reluctance, he does not, he does it bc he loves Jc so so much, but still. Still. The hurt it caused it. The hell it send to him. The hopelessness.

And then to see his shidi thrive were he can’t no longer. To see him shine when he is but a shadow. To see him reach for the impossible time and time again as if it was not WWX who never gave up before, who rallied his shidi over his (small, imagined, greedy) woes. To see all that and know envy, envy he had denied his whole life and envy he will repress into resentment, into sth useful bc WWX is not like yzy or Jc he is not, he does not hurt the ones he lives with his jealousy and sense of inferiority. Bc how can he not envy, when one says his dad doesn’t love him but he still has a dad? When one says he is not enough for his sect when he has such a inheritance, such a clear path at life. And WWX never cared never ever ever, how could he? He loved his shidi best, in spite of all the bad things.

And somehow, Jc himself is a thing he has to be loved in spite of. And it’s heartbreaking.

#but WWX never will say any of that aloud or even think it clearly #this man has been running form negative emotion like he’s sprinting his whole life #also that would make him the bad guy and WWX has enough guilt to carry and not talk about already try #also I love Jc and it shows sorry #this is not to say he is a perfect shidi or anything the man is a mess #but all his doubts about WWX character have it reason. it’s proof #and maybe the proof was forged but it was there #he does not deal with a single emotion gracefully but he does deal with them. he lets them simmer for eternity #which is. not ignoring them. #bad but at least real. idk how to say it. #anyway it fucks me up how much agency WWX denies Jc and how much complexity he refuses to see #like. WWX would do the impossible to make Jc the person who hates him irrationally so that he is not the bad guy in the relationship #(which is more complex than good or bad guys but I digress) #I love when they reconcile but I also hate it. bc it is never acknowledged how much WWX daily shits on Jc as a person) #you can love a person you don’t like. it happens. #but the Jc in WWX head is not the real Jc and the sad thing is that WWX loves the real Jc not the inherited prejudice from jfm #but he can’t perceive him he refuses to he can’t bc then he has to deal with what he did to him. #he lied. he lied. he lied to Jc’s (and himself) so much he can’t no longer distinguish the truth of them and is so fucking sad #mxtx #chengxian #grandmaster of demonic cultivation

[ouyangzizhensdad]

As a mdzs/novel canon reader, how do you feel about the roles of Wen Ning and Wen Qing in mdzs vs cql?

I think one of the most important thing (for me) when thinking about how wn and wq are explored in cql is to remember the following two factors:

1. While the actress denied it, it seems that wq was indeed supposed to be a love interest for wwx in cql before fans made a fuss about it on social media: this is supported by the fact she was introduced as a main character in early talks of the series, the actress got the biggest $$ contract after xz and wyb, we got some leaked photos from set showing scenes that were filmed or were intended to be filmed but didn’t end up in the final cut of the series, and the simple reality that wq’s presence in the story was increased significantly (while her impact on the plot remained the same). Tbh that they chose to cast meng ziyi and introduced (and kept) a frankly bizarre (on a thematic and plot level) romance subplot between jc and her is proof enough for me that she was supposed to be a love interest for wwx (albeit a tragic one).  

2. CQL fundamentally modified the role of the Wens within the narrative by changing the whole subplot about modao, which then altered the role of wq and wn to a degree, and with which characters they interacted and when.

For me, these had an impact on the overall quality of the storytelling, particularly in regards to wq and her character (under the cut because I don’t know how to be brief).

WEN QING:

1. Even if she had been instructed by the director to play wq as close to possible to the way she was portrayed in the novel, I don’t think Meng Ziyi could have done it; for me, she doesn’t have the right presence, physicality, etc. to achieve a good performance of wq. Novel wq has such strong boss energy; she is high-ranking officer even if she is removed from the fighting, the best doctor, and someone who was in charge of the yiling supervision office, and she’s constantly snapping at people (I love novel!wq.........). Meng Ziyi just does not manage to embody that powerful energy--she has that female lead type of presence, and it just doesn’t mesh with who wq is.

Wen Ning nodded, somewhat embarrassed, “My sister. She’s really powerful.”

She was indeed powerful.

Wen Qing could be considered a famous cultivator of the QishanWen Sect. She wasn’t a daughter of the QishanWen Sect’s leader, Wen Ruohan, but instead the daughter of one of Wen Ruohan’s cousins. Although they were far cousins, Wen Ruohan had always had a close relationship to this cousin of his. On top of that, Wen Qing was exceptional in the liberal arts and studied medicine as well. She was a talent, and thus she was rather favored by Wen Ruohan. She often followed Wen Ruohan to the banquets of the QishanWen Sect, which was why Wei Wuxian found her face familiar. She was a beauty, after all. He had also heard from somewhere that she had an elder or younger brother. But, perhaps because he wasn’t as talented as Wen Qing, not many people talked about him.

2. In my opinion, making the wq a more active agent in the wen plot also takes away part of what defines her arc and character in the novel, and what she represents as a figure within the conflict. Let’s remember, we are only introduced to wq in the novel after Lotus Pier was burned down and jc lost his core--she is absent until then, and that is the point: she is not involved in the conflict. While morally upright, she is someone who passively benefits from the ills committed by her sect and who only takes calculated risks to help reduce the suffering committed to others. She becomes guilty by association despite never actively hurting others or helping wrh’s cause. It feels more organic and complex than the throne-room!threats we see in cql, and having her carry on missions for wrh.

Wen Qing cut him off, “What the Wen Sect does doesn’t represent what we do. We don’t need to be responsible for the Wen Sect’s wrongdoing. Wei Ying, there’s no need to look at me like that. There’s a beginning to all debts. I’m the office leader of Yiling, but I was ordered to take the position. I’m a medic, an apothecary, I’ve never killed anyone, much less touched the blood of the Jiang Sect.”

It was true. Nobody had heard of any lives lost by Wen Qing’s hands. There were always many cases that people wanted her to take over. It was because Wen Qing was one of the Wen Sect’s people whose way of doing things was actually normal. At times she could even put in a few good words for people in front of Wen Ruohan. Her reputation had always been good.

/////

Lan Xichen responded a moment later. “I have heard of Wen Qing’s name a few of times. I do not remember her having participated in any of the Sunshot Campaign’s crimes.” 

“But she’s never stopped them either, “ Nie Mingjue countered.

“Wen Qing was one of Wen RuoHan’s most trusted people, “ said Lan Xichen. “How could she have stopped them?” 

Nie Mingjue spoke coldly. “If she responded with only silence and not opposition when the Wen Sect was causing mayhem, it’s the same as indifference. She shouldn’t have been so disillusioned as to hope that she could be treated with respect when the Wen Sect was doing evil and be unwilling to suffer the consequences and pay the price when the Wen Sect was wiped out.” 

[...] One of the sect leaders spoke up, “What Nie-zongzhu said is quite right. Besides, Wen Qing is one of Wen RuoHan’s most trusted people. You’re telling me she never participated? Well I don’t buy it. Is there any Wen-gao without a single drop of blood on their hands? Maybe it’s just that we haven’t found out about it yet!”

3. Making wq interact with other characters before the qiongqi path incident also makes their motivations harder to understand. For instance, jc having feelings for wq makes his motivations and actions during the aftermath of the sunshot campaign more muddled, imo? In the novel, instead, jc’s unwillingness to help the wen remnants is used to showcase a foil between jc’s and wwx’s understandings of duty/responsibility:

“You burn this corpse right now and return to them all these leftovers of the Wen Sect. That’s the only way to make the subject die!” As Jiang Cheng spoke, he raised his sword again, preparing to attack.

Wei Wuxian clenched his wrist.

“Are you joking?! If we return Wen Qing and the others to them, they’d meet nothing but a dead end!”

“I doubt you’ll even return all of them. Why do you care what kind of end they meet? A dead end it is, then—what does it have to do with you?!”

Wei Wuxian finally lost his temper. “Jiang Cheng! What- What do you think you’re talking about?! Take it back—don’t make me give you a thrashing! Don’t forget. Who was the one that helped us burn Jiang-shushu’s and Yu-furen’s corpses? Who returned to us the ashes that are in Lotus Pier right now? And who took us in when we were chased after by Wen Chao?!”

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

4. Adding more screen time for wq and more interactions with other characters prior to/during the sunshot campaign ends up adding nothing in terms of her arc or her impact on the plot. While wq is a secondary character in the novel, she is crucial to the plot: her skills and her agency shape so many crucial moments and events in mdzs. Take away pretty much any scene with wq in the novel, and the events of the novel have to change. However, when it comes to what has been added in cql to make her more prominent in the series, it does not feel like it brings anything of significance to the plot. In the end, what is the point of the hair comb moment? it never sways jc to help or feel really conflicted over not helping the wen remnants? it never changes anything about the way wq acts? jc doesn’t come to wq’s defense at jinlintai the way lwj does. At best, it just adds to jc’s manpain. In the end, what’s the point of having a cute moment between wq and jyl, except to reassure viewers that wq is a good person and cares for her brother (all things we known in the novel in spite of the absence of this scene). In the end, what is the point of spending screentime with wq looking for the yin iron in the cloud recesses, and wwx being suspicious of her, if anyway lwj and him stumble upon it by chance? If wq were the love interest, it would make more sense to just pad up her screen time in the series, and these moments would probably pay off more. But as it is, it just feels very aimless and even at times confusing. 

5. i 100% headcanon novel wq as a lesbian and the fact that they even suggest she might have feelings for jc is an attack on my gay rights ): 

WEN NING:

1. Gosh I love wn. I think his role in the novel is so important and i have too much to say to end up saying anything remotely coherent. I also have to say that I love the actor they chose. Of all the casting choices, I’d even say it is the best of the entire series in my opinion. He really captures the essence of wn and he looks so adorable. So cute. 

2. Overall, i think cql did not change too much in terms of his arc and characterisation (the shy but fiercely protective person, coming to terms with what he lost, finding wen yuan and reconnecting with his history, finding a path of his own instead of following his sister/wwx). However I do find that some of the interactions are more meaningful in the novel. For example, making wwx and wn’s first interaction happen in the cloud recesses takes away the importance of wwx standing up against wn’s own sect members on their own turf. The fact that wwx and wn see each other more in the CQL verse also undermines the weight of wn’s choice and how significant wwx’s actions and words were to him, since he was ready to go against his sect for someone he’d met once. Once!!!! It says so much about wn and what his life was like--and how much impact wwx’s acts of kindness and care could have. If I let myself I would just end up quoting back most of Poison - part 4.Okay, I will just quote this part:

Red seeped through Wen Qionglin’s face to even the bottom of his ears. There was no need for others to beckon him away; he fled self-consciously. Wei Wuxian chased after him, “Hey, don’t run! Uh… Qionglin-xiong right? Why are you running?”

Hearing his name called from behind him, Wen Qionglin finally stopped. Head hanging low, he turned around. It seemed as though shame rippled from his head to his toes as he stammered, “… I’m sorry.”

“Why are you telling me you’re sorry?”

“You… You recommended me… but I made you lose face…”

“How did it make me lose face? You haven’t really shot in front other people, have you? You were nervous?”

Wen Qionglin nodded. Wei Wuxian continued, “Have some confidence. Let me tell you the truth—you shoot better than everyone in your sect. Out of all of the disciples whom I’ve seen, no more than three people are better in archery than you.”

3. I do wish wn as the ghost general was scarier and more violent in cql, but they tamed all of the horror/violent/gory aspects of the novel so it was to be expected. I just love contrasts.............

#mdzs meta #asks #cql vs mdzs #wen qing #wen ning #Anonymous