#and i dont think it did it in a way that's really incompatible with christianity tbh | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

soldier-poet-king · 5 months

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Ok not gonna actually put my replies on someone's post bc that's RUDE (and it's not borne out of ill will I genuinely like discussing this stuff but idk if that is appropriate here!! I don't know this person!! I am bad at knowing when to open my mouth!) but I really liked the theology of vespertine? I didn't take it as things done in the Lady's name are Valid Religious Actions, nor did I take it that both good and evil come from the Lady. Its clearly based off of Christianity, and i thought the questions it asked about theodicy were quite interesting (and perhaps my favourite bit of the book, and why I found it so moving).

It was less that the Lady causes xyz bad thing to happen, and more that the Lady /allows/ xyz bad thing to happen only so that ultimately some good can be brought out of it. Which, imo, is very in line with a Christian view of theodicy, esp in the Pauline epistles (and Job, and obvs the Gospels). Evil is brought into the world by human action, but that human action is allowed to happen (BC free will) and ultimately is transformed toward the Good. That doesn't mean that ppl aren't shitheads who claim that their evil is divinely sanctioned, nor that hurt people do not (understandably) blame the divine and lash out in their hurt. But that ultimately, for whatever ineffable reason the inexorable will of god PERMITS evil to occur, knowing in divine wisdom and grace it will be transformed to the Good.

That's not a comfort. Not really. I think it is frightening and terrifying and awe-inspiring and horrible all at once. I have my own personal feelings on the subject. I just think it's an important distinction, and fwiw much closer to my own reading of the book. Its the same sort of troubling not-answers to questions of divine providence, grace, and the will of god that the sparrow duology examines (in a much less harrowing way, albiet, the sparrow is heavy).

Idk man I think I'm just fascinated by theodicy and conceptions of evil in non dualistic universe where evil exists despite an omnipotent and all-good divinity. I think the Augustine Brainrot got me.

#i am only mutual in laws with this person and idk if theyre comfortable with me randomly saying shit #and so!!! i will go on my little theodicy rambles on my own #idk man. i just really loved vespertine. one of the top books i read this year #i found it incredibly comforting and also incredibly disquieting #that sense of divine providence that is both suffering and grace #i didn expect it to wrestle with that #and i dont think it did it in a way that's really incompatible with christianity tbh #but maybe i have greek philosphy brainrot and a lot of weird thoughts and feelings abt theodicy more generally speaking #i know my opinions arent often mainline wrt faith #regardless. i adored vespertine. i wish other ppl of faith felt the same!!#its not really a big deal im just. thinking my silly lil thoughts all the time

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trickstarbrave · 4 months

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How is Norse Mythology incompatible with the Elder Scrolls?

the elder scrolls cosmology is fundamentally one focused on life after death. afterlives, honor in death, great cosmic wars at the end of time. a lot of faiths, including norse faiths, share similar stories. but the fundamental difference is the elder scrolls cosmology is built upon stuff like gnosticism. there IS a higher power--even above gods--called the godhead and nothing else is REAL. or rather its just about as real as the godhead and all really interconnected (also kinda hinduism but im not as well versed in that and kirkbride who developed a lot of the deep lore is a self admitted gnostic. bigger difference is gnostism is most often christian so that will factor in more but he was also inspired by hinduism and other faiths).

that might not mean fucking much in the way i am explaining it bc i am sleep deprived. esp given dominant western culture is very christian focused which also puts heaven emphasis on the afterlife and moral rules and regulations to get into a good one or everlasting torment. and a lot of people assume norse faiths follow this formula--they have vahalla! surely that must be viking heaven, the ultimate paradise (and is what sovngarde is based on) but uhhhh no.

in the norse faith there is much more focus on the here and now. the afterlife you will spend doing what you already did on earth. folkvangr and vahalla were most like consolations to grieving families--if you died on a raid, they probably couldn't take your body back home for burial. but the average person did not want to take up the job of being a viking (and it was a job specifically) just to get into vahalla. there were still death rituals and veneration of ancestors but there was no focus on morality or "fighting in the great war of ragnarok" or anything. the gods were also more down to earth and the differences between "spirit", "god", "ancestor", and other categories was uhhhh very blurry to non-existent. for instance there are a lot of pieces of evidence that loki might have been a common hearth spirit before he was a god. or maybe he was always just a very popular one so prolific he is basically a god. maybe several gods or local spirits used to be someone's ancestor. hard to say. there is also no strict hierarchy and rules of practice as it was entirely non-centralized. even saying stuff like "odin is the god of wisdom" isn't accurate as the norse gods don't really have "domains" like we think of in the roman or greek sense.

so its really a bunch of things that make it really incompatible but god does TES lore really try to shove it in there. they take a lot of elements but in the pop-cultural and ultimately christian interpretation of them that does them a disservice. or does things like "well the nords are based on vikings and vikings are raiders obsessed with battle and are brutish uncivilized barbarians so... lets just give them a bunch of "uncivilized" things that don't really make sense interconnected like totems and face paint and unsophisticated leather clothes because they are brutish savages!" which is. all really racist ideas at their core. not even racist to norse ppl just racist against BIPOC who have had these stereotypes built from bastardizations of their cultures by colonizers. which is just. not great.

hence why the adaptation of alduin being based on nidhogg was so. rough. you need a big scary world ending dragon, but he cant JUST be akatosh. bc the ending of oblivion and other established lore. and it would be a cop out to just say "actually the nords were wrong and alduin/akatosh who would be the same person in this case are great" bc then you dont get scary evil world ending dragon like they wanted. so they gotta make alduin his son and don't think through why nidhogg is even a thing in norse mythos bc norse mythos is only being used for aesthetics in TES lore. which sucks bc i wish they would have kept the theme of rebirth and change and renewal which is so prevalent in norse stories. norse mythos is focused on the natural world and cycles after all, but why do that when you want big buff white men with axes wearing furs and killing elves (who are totally not ever going to be repurposed by white supremacists as stand ins for irl minorities. nope. never.)

if you are more interesting in norse mythology bc my explanation makes no sense i recommend @skaldish who has various resources and websites and blog posts that break it down in more understandable ways. without me inevitably butchering it bc i have too many ideas rattling around in my brain

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aliceviceroy · 5 years

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I don’t want to call myself a Christian anymore. To clarify, I don’t want to be known as an American Evangelical Christian. For years, I wore that label comfortably and confidently, as it has been the core of my identity since my earliest memories. But now, that label makes me uncomfortable, and even disgusted, and I want the rest of my life to be defined by something very different.

As a child, my Christian faith was just as much a part of my identity as my brown hair, my shyness, and my love of softball. My family was at church every Sunday, we prayed before dinner, and read the Bible before bed. I went to church camps, youth retreats, and Christian concerts. I attended a Christian high school, and pledged a Christian sorority in college. The Christian label accompanied a good majority of my activities, even through early adulthood.

Today, as a not-so-young adult and a mother, I find a lot about my Christian upbringing problematic. And now, in 2017, my eyes are wide open to how much of the world views my faith, and in many ways I don’t disagree with that perception. I’m horrified and embarrassed at the ways American Christianity is promoting nationalism, political agendas totally contradictory to Christ’s teachings, and a president who in no way represents the Jesus I was taught to love.

The adults who mandated I wear a one piece swimsuit to church camp (to fulfill some arbitrary standard of “modesty”) also cemented a core belief that sex outside of marriage is sinful and damaging. And I believed them. I followed all the rules and wore the right clothes. I saved myself until marriage, which had it’s own far-reaching consequences, regardless of how Biblically I behaved. And then, many of these same adults endorsed Donald Trump for president, even after undeniable evidence that he is an adulterer, misogynist, and sexual assaulter. And I am devastated.

The Christian leaders who taught me that every life is sacred, who sang Jesus loves the little children...all are precious in his sight, are silent or make flimsy excuses about escalating racism and police brutality in our country. They celebrate travel bans that discriminate based on religion, but are all for Christians being able to discriminate because of their religion. They boast tagline in their church bulletins saying Come as You Are...but wait, not if you’re gay.

I will never understand how so many Christians who have worn, marked up Bibles and prayer journals continue to support the political party who seems intent on destroying access to healthcare for the most vulnerable Americans. The poor and disabled in this country (as well as millions of children) are facing massive cuts to Medicaid. Without Medicaid, how are these people going to get the healthcare they need to live? For those that say it’s the church’s job to take care of the sick and poor, where is the evidence for that being a sustainable, long term solution? Because right now, the church is missing the need by a long shot. I don’t believe the church has a responsibility to pay my child’s exorbitant medical bills, but I do believe as a Christian, I have a responsibility to graciously contribute to the programs that are capable of meeting those needs. Most of the time, that means I pay my taxes so programs like Medicaid can exist to take care of the poor and disabled.

I feel like a child who has discovered her parents have been lying to her for decades. How could I have missed this? How did I not realize how off I was about the religion that shaped the path of my entire life? How do I reconcile that both elders and peers in my faith think a president who bullies journalists, mocks the disabled, and repeatedly disparages women’s physical appearances is perfectly acceptable, so long as he is “pro-life”, “pro-Israel” and “pro-America”? It seems to me that the selling out of an entire religious moral code is a steep price to pay for a Supreme Court nominee or two.

I’ve been told I need to pray for our leaders. What exactly am I praying for? Because prayer alone isn’t going to fix the mess that our country is in. Prayer alone isn’t going to save Medicaid for millions. Prayer isn’t going to allow refugees fleeing terror to enter our country. Prayer isn’t going to give a desperate woman seeking an abortion resources and support so she is able to keep her baby. And prayer certainly isn’t going to take away Trump’s twitter and keep him from acting like a junior high boy with no filter. So yes, I will pray. But I’m also going to do something.

I’m not going to hide behind my Bible, or my privilege, and stay quiet about injustice because it may not impact me personally. I’m not going to show up at church on Sunday, talk about God with a bunch of people just like me, and pretend that makes me a good Christian, or even a good person. I’m not going to stay out of politics, despite being whispered about behind my back by pearl-clutching Christians who find “liberal” and “Jesus” to be incompatible terms. The Jesus I know was loving, fair, and gentle, but he was also bold. And political.

I really don’t know where I go from here. I’m frustrated, angry, and lonely. I’ve lost friends, and the foundation of my entire life has been cracked, probably irreparably. I don’t know how to answer my children’s spiritual questions, because none of my answers feel genuine anymore. But I’ve decided I don’t need all the answers immediately, and I’m content to be discontent and wandering a bit right now. I may be disillusioned by religion, but I don’t doubt God and His power in my life. I also don’t doubt that He loves me, even with my instinct to walk away. I still want to be a Christian, but need a new definition of what that truly means.

#christianity #ex-christian #fuck christianity

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identitycris1s · 5 years

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so this is the new year

im finally taking time to sit down and reflect on the past few months. the new year came and went and its been a bit of a whirlwind. i suppose i’ll just go by chronological order cos i dont really know how to start...also i dont think im an abstract thinker so really my life isnt ordered by “themes” or “lessons” or whatever but i sort of think of it in terms of events and the epiphanies or lessons that flow therefrom. this is probably just gonna be a stream of consciousness exposition cos im lazy to organise my thoughts and this is basically my journal so WHATEVER!

November

X told me he liked me and asked me out. i was shocked. but sort of saw it coming (what else could “r u free after lunch, i have some stuff to say” mean...LOL). i reacted awkwardly - distinctly remember saying “huh..what does that MEAN!!!” (LOL) i told him i would think about it but could probably only give him an answer after part b was over.

tbh this was probably just me stalling for time. i think instinctively i knew that i didnt see him in that way, but he seemed to tick so many boxes in terms of who i was “supposed” to be with - that sounds dumb, but what i mean is he’s a steadfast christian, a good boy, similar values, similar tastes in music / movies / books, same bloody industry LOL...

also he seemed really serious about it - ermmm he brought up marriage on that first day :0 ok i suppose thats unfair and it sounds insane without context - he said it with reference to how dating is always with a view to marriage which i do agree with but yes it was a lot to absorb in one conversation. and then he cracked out this book about dating and marriage and i was like woah. so, given how much thought he seemed to have put into this (he also said he chatted with his CG leader about me yikes) i felt obliged to at least think it through properly and give myself some time to consider rather than immediately rejecting him.

and so i mulled it over whilst studying for part b. he was overseas for a while towards the end of my studying period (ie when i was freaking out the most and generally being a headless chicken) and this probably contributed to me feeling like i liked him more than i really did hmm wonder what this says about me. i like to feel like someone’s out of my reach i suppose. so fucked up lol! and so during this period we were texting everyday and i would look forward to his replies and he was a real source of comfort during that stressful period and i never told him this and i probably never will.

December

exams were over and i had to face D DAY!! so i went to meet him to give him my answer and honestly even on that day i didnt know what my answer was. we met at BTM and he literally had written down a list of things to talk about and i think in that moment i knew this probably wouldnt work out. hes so damn thoughtful about every little thing and he thinks everything through and even though he seems to think he “doesnt take things too seriously” I THINK HE DOES...and i really dont...so i felt that showed how incompatible we were. its not a bad thing to be thoughtful. its just that i felt so pressured by how seriously he was taking things...i thought “trying this out” would be casual and chill and we would just hang out as if we were friends but with this overarching agenda of potentially being together but no his conception of “trying things out” is much more intense and serious and thought out and in his words “intentional”. which i realised is some christian dating jargon haha.

dinner was normal until he cracked out that list i was talking about. then he started talking about what he wanted out of a relationship and asked me what i wanted out of a relationship. like it was a damn interview. you know what, im saying this in a really condescending tone and i wouldnt ever be this hurtful if i knew he was gonna read this - in fact i really do think this kind of approach would suit many people and perhaps a more emotionally well adjusted person would think this was normal but i felt so bombarded and i really didnt know what to say in response. so i blurted out some nonsense about wanting to be with someone who was God fearing and “kind and compassionate” and “ambitious” LMAO...what bullshit (that last one i mean). and he had clearly thought out his answers a lot more and he went on a whole spiel about wanting to be with someone who could stand on their own as a christian and who he didnt have to “drag along” on their walk with God and i was like ok cool but i think im not that...im not what youre looking for...but of course i didnt say this. idk why. maybe i enjoy being wanted and sought after and i didnt want to shatter his illusion that i was what he was looking for, even though i was kinda seeing that he wasnt what i was looking for.

anyway, being the shitty person i am, i told him it wasnt a no but it wasnt a straight out yes either i.e. i would be willing to try with a view to potentially saying yes. and we left it at that. but even as i said bye to him that night i kinda knew this wasnt gonna work...but i wanted it to! i wanted to like him! i want to be the kind of person who can accept love from a well adjusted person who’s not afraid to be real and to take things seriously...but i suppose i have some emotional growth to work on...or is it perfectly valid for me to not want to be with him? tbh i never found him attractive (physically or even personality wise oops) - he doesnt make me laugh, hes kinda too uptight, he doesnt get my jokes (i have to be like “JUST KIDDING” a lot of the time..ded) but somehow we worked as friends. but to be with someone requires something more than just working as friends doesnt it?? ack

so we met a few times in dec (i think we went on four or five “dates” in total...im so reluctant to call them dates cos throughout i just couldnt see him in that light, but thats what they were i think) and through the course of our interactions i started picking up on things that i didnt like about him / about our interactions. this sounds awfully petty and i dont wanna be mean about this cos im sure i have MANY MANY MANY flaws that one could nit pick but these were just some signs that we would not work (quite apart from my lack of physical attraction to him)

1. our conversations always end up argumentative. i think this probably stems from both of us being law students and so whenever we disagree on something we both cant seem to fucking let it go. i distinctly remember one stupid conversation, i shall put it here (not verbatim but this is the gist of it)

X: what are your new years resolutions?

S: i dont like making new years resolutions because they always end up in disappointment because i never stick to them.

X: but disappointment isnt always a bad thing because you can learn from it and improve from there

S: yes but that doesnt mean disappointment isnt a bad thing - cos disappointment in itself is bad (like duh the feeling of disappointment is bad) but what comes after disappointment can be good or bad i.e. you can choose to work on yourself and improve or you can wallow in the disappointment.

-some more argument and confusion about what we are even talking about-

S: ok lets not argue on this its a semantic point.

X: is it semantic? its not semantic.

S: it is semantic. we are disagreeing on what the word disappointment means. i think it is necessarily negative but you are saying that disappointment isnt always negative because of what can come after but i think thats sidestepping the point of disappointment being negative in itself.

do you see what i mean. what kind of petty argument is this? whats the damn point? of course im definitely not blameless in this at all. i perpetuate it. but what im saying is i feel like talking to him brings out this argumentative side of me that im not a fan of. also its fucking exhausting haha.

2. he is so. fucking. serious. every conversation involves some heavy thing like spirituality or self evaluation or Godliness etc. which i suppose is good but i just found it tiring...why cant things be light? why cant things be fun? why do we always have to talk about *important* or *weighty* things? tbh i think he sorta compartmentalises me as a friend whom he can talk about these *weighty* things with cos im also a christian and i get what hes saying when he talks about God but i dont want to only talk about that...

3. we dont have similar senses of humour. i dont think he thinks im funny...but i think im bloody funny ok haha also i dont think im deluded on this? my friends think im funny too? yeah i think its a major problem that we cant really laugh together...hes not someone that makes me laugh at all :(

ok enough bashing X haha i really do think hes a great person we are just NOT compatible romantically.

ANYWAYS! sometime in dec i also met up w SM for the first time in aaaages. but things were like normal again. sounds stupid but i think ill always think of him as the one who got away LOL....emotionally unavailable and not interested in me?? IM DOWN! haha. ok hes not emotionally unavailable tbh i probably was more emotionally unavailable in the course of our friendship but he defo never really expressed any interest in me other than always hanging out one on one but that doesnt really count for anything does it. anyways! he told me about his BTO plans and im honestly v happy for him :) friends r growing up and moving on in life mang..

sad part was i dropped avo toast on my new everlane pants and that honestly ruined my day lol

January

NYE was spent w S and some of her friends plus R and A (who went home after dinner cos of family drama lmao angie is siao) - we went to AL’s fam friends party at fullerton for countdown and the fireworks were amaaaazing, lasted about an hour (which made us question the budget allocation on this tbh isnt it a bit of a waste?? fireworks are insanely expensive??) and we promptly went home after the clock struck 12 which was perfect haha i have no stamina to stay out late anymore.

work started on 2 jan! its been fun tbh - back with the trainees and meeting some new people and using my brain again. i like feeling useful and being stuck in a routine...at least for now haha. check in on me in about 3 months and we’ll see.

and....i finally mustered up the courage to tell X the truth ie i didnt see this going anywhere and we should just be friends. we had kind of an awkward dinner (i could feel myself being rude to him and being dismissive etc but i think it could partially be attributed to me being tired from work..but mostly cos i didnt wanna be with him!! as a romantic partner!! it felt wrong!) and so i told him after dinner otw to the mrt (funny, we always have these convos otw to the mrt haha). he said he understood and he sort of felt it coming. and i felt bad - he mustve picked up on my coldness and rudeness over text and in our meetings also...why am i like this. i shouldve been up front with him on the first day. but i didnt know!!! i didnt know for sure this is how i felt. ahhh well u live and u learn right. next time ill be better at this. hope theres a next time LOL God pls send me someone whos right for me

ok bye for now! this was a lengthy post haha

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pitz182 · 5 years

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Is AA Too Religious for Generation Z?

Are today’s mutual-aid recovery groups ready to satisfy Generation-next?“More than any other generation before them, Gen Z does not assert a religious identity. They might be drawn to things spiritual, but with a vastly different starting point from previous generations, many of whom received a basic education on the Bible and Christianity. And it shows: The percentage of Gen Z that identifies as atheist is double that of the U.S. adult population.”Released early this year, Barna Group’s Generation-Z Report (Americans born between 1999 and 2015) surveyed over 2,000 13 to 18-year-olds. The oldest of this generation turn 20 in 2019.According to AA’s most recent triennial membership survey, 1% of AA is under 21—that’s about 20,000 sober teenagers in AA rooms right now. What’s my personal affinity with this demographic? It’s two-fold: I have two millennial children and one 18-year-old stepson; secondly, while I am a grey-haired Baby Boomer, I was a teen at my first 12-step meeting. My 20th birthday was 1980, three months shy of my fourth anniversary clean and sober.I was a second-generation AA member and—like Barna’s youth focus group—my worldview seemed incompatible with the old fogies of 12-step rooms. My mother mused about finding god’s will for her from meditation or her daily horoscope. She was such a Virgo, you know. Horoscopes, higher powers, legends of Sasquatch, these were all fictional symbols as far as I was concerned. Reasonable people didn’t take such constructs literally, did they?Bob K, like me, is a second-generation AA. He’s currently between historical book projects; Key Players in AA History will soon have a prequel. Bob’s follow-up research will produce a book about pre-AA addiction and treatment. At age 40, Bob made it into AA as a result of his dad 12-stepping him. He also was uncomfortable with the emphasis on "God." “When I was a month sober, it was ‘God-this, God saved me’ and I was going to put my resignation in. I didn’t think I could stand it in AA any longer. I went to the internet of the day—which back then was the library—and I looked for non-religious alternatives to AA. They had them in California but nothing in Ontario Canada. So it was AA or nothing. If I tried to brave it alone, I’d be drunk; I knew it.”Today, Bob enjoys the likeminded company at his Secular AA home group, Whitby Freethinkers, which meets in the local suburban library just East of Toronto. If I were confronting addiction/recovery as a teen today, I wonder if I would go to AA or NA? If AA was once “the last house on the block,” today it’s one house in a subdivision of mutual-aid choices. Today, newcomers have access to Refuge Recovery, SMART Recovery, Secular Organizations for Sobriety (SOS), or Medically Assisted Treatment, none of which existed in the 1970s.On Practically Sane, therapist Jeffrey Munn states: “I like to take a practical approach … I’m not a fan of the ‘fluff’ and flowery language that is often associated with the world of psychology and self-help.” Jeffrey came into the rooms at 20, stayed sober for 2 ½ years, relapsed, came back and is now 13 years clean and sober.“I was mandated to three 12-step meetings per week to stay in the program I was in. Since I was young I have been agnostic. I wanted to find a higher power that was common sense-based, but in the rooms I felt pulled towards a more dogmatic spiritual idea of higher power. Back then, I needed to come up with my own conception of what was happening on a psychological level." Recently, Jeffrey wrote and published Staying Sober Without God: the Practical 12 Steps to Long Term Recovery from Alcoholism and Addiction.“I looked at SMART Recovery,” Jeffrey tells The Fix. “I looked at Moderation Management, too—that one struck me as being an organized resentment against AA—I wasn’t feeling it. When it comes down to social support and a practical plan of action, it’s hard to beat 12-step programs. What I try to teach is: if you don’t buy into any kind of a supernatural higher power, navigate the 12-step world, filtering the god-stuff out, working the program in your own way; there is lots that really works.”Barna reports, “Nearly half of teens, on par with Millennials, say, ‘I need factual evidence to support my beliefs.’” Jeffrey hopes Staying Sober Without God—which joins a growing secular 12-step recovery offering—offers the rational narrative today’s youth crave. Barna calls today’s youth “the first truly post-Christian generation [in America].”Certified Master Addiction Counselor David B. Bohl of Milwaukee understands the value of other-oriented care. David tells The Fix: “As head of a 20-bed coed dual-diagnosis treatment center, emerging adults, 18 to 25 years old, came into our care. I wouldn’t say that they universally shrugged off the 12-step approach but almost universally, in reaction to our volunteers, alumni, and traditional AA community, younger clients didn’t want what the volunteers and alumni had. And I wouldn’t say it was the religiosity always. Sometimes it was an age-thing or life approach. So, our recovery management function became that much more important in terms of building individualized treatment that suits everyone.“In the USA, 75% of all residential treatment centers identify as 12-step facilitators,” David tells us. “In the simplest form, our job is to introduce people to the language and the concept of the 12 steps and then to introduce the clients to support groups or people in support groups when they are discharged from acute care.Where trauma is involved—religious trauma in particular—traditional AA language and rituals trigger that shame they feel from negative formal religion experiences.”Let’s put this overbearing religion caution to a real-life test: Suwaida F was the second oldest of 11 children to Somalian refugee parents who fled to Canada in the 1980s.“In Kindergarten I didn’t have to wear a hijab; my parents weren’t super religious. I went to an Islamic school in grade one. It was normal for teachers to have belts with them, they would hit you; child abuse was normalized. They didn’t really teach us that much math, science, history. The Islamic teachers weren’t that educated. My parents took me out and put me in public school. Then, some of my mom’s Somalian-Canadian friends started moving their kids to Egypt. My friends would stay in Egypt two years, finish the Qur’an and the girls came back wearing burqas and head-scarves. Some Muslim friends would come to school in their hijab, take them off and put them back on when they went home. We called them The Transformers.My parents really wanted us to learn the Qur’an; I don’t speak Arabic, so it was difficult. And I never believed it. I asked my mom and dad, ‘How do you know that this stuff is real?’ They got frustrated and mad and said, ‘Don’t ever ask that question again.’ I knew it wasn’t real. Mom got more and more religious. Pictures of her at age 19 -- she wore no head-scarf when she was my age. My mom expected me to be religious and I rebelled. I had to leave home.”Suwaida misses her sisters. She feels unwelcome in the family home unless she is dressed in the Islamic custom and that wouldn’t be true to herself. Away from home, Suwaida found the welcoming community she craved in the booze and cocaine culture.“It wasn’t a matter of having no money; I had no sense of hope. People at work didn’t know I was hopped from shelter to shelter at night. One winter I was told, ‘Suwaida, you’ve been restricted from every youth shelter in the city of Toronto.’” As addiction progressed, Suwaida recalls an ever-descending patterns of compromises, bad relationships and regrets.“Today, it’s like I still never unpack my suitcase; I’m always ready to go.” During a stay at St. Joe’s detox, Suwaida went to her first NA meeting.“At 7 PM, a woman spoke. I made it clear that I thought it was stupid; I wouldn’t share. At the end, everyone was holding hands to pray and I said, ‘I’m not holding any of your hands.’ I didn’t go back. When I was discharged, I went drinking at the bar with my suitcase, not knowing where I was going to stay that night.My second meeting I consider my first, because I chose it. I thought I should go to AA. I googled atheist or freethinker AA to avoid a repeat of my NA experience. I found Beyond Belief Agnostics and Freethinkers Group on the University of Toronto campus. I went there last February. For a while, I had wine in my travel-mug, and I didn’t say anything. In August I felt like the woman beside me knew I was drinking, and I ask myself, ‘What am I doing?’ So, my next meeting, I went sober. I’ve been clean and sober ever since.”Despite the child-violence of Islamic school and rejection from her family, Suwaida isn’t anti-theist. “I do believe in God or in something. I feel like I’m always looking for signs. I don’t believe in a god in the sky but to say there’s nothing beyond all this doesn’t make any sense to me. Sometimes the freakiest things happen. Maybe it’s because I’m a storyteller, I try to make a story out of everything; you think of someone, then they phone you, is that random?I feel a part-of in secular or mainstream AA meetings. My self-talk still sounds like, ‘Don’t share Suwaida, you have nothing to add.’ Maybe it comes from not being able to express myself when I was growing up. I have no sense of self. I guess I have something special to offer but I don’t know how to articulate it. It’s hard; I have limited self-confidence.”“Give them their voice; listen to them,” is Kevin Schaefer’s approach. He co-hosts the podcast Don’t Die Wisconsin. He’s also a recovery coach.“I’ve been in Recovery 29+ years. I’m a substance abuse counselor and I got into addiction treatment through sober living. When I started working in a Suboxone clinic, I came to realize that AA can’t solve everything. I always come from a harm reduction standpoint: meth, cocaine, benzos; I ask, ‘Can you just smoke pot?’ and we start building the trust there.Medically Assisted Treatment (MAT) is geared towards this generation. Most kids coming through my door know a lot about MAT, more so than people in AA with the biases and stigma that they bring. Kids sometimes know more than the front-line social workers. Their friends are on MAT, that’s how they gather their information (not to say their information is all correct). But a lot of therapists don’t understand medication. Medication can be a ticket to survival out on the streets.”The Fix asked Kevin his opinion on the best suited mutual-aid group for this generation.“Most of the generation you’re talking about walks in with anxiety and defiantly won’t do groups.” We talked about the role of online video/voice or text meetings for a tech-native generation. “Yes—where appropriate. Women especially, because from what I’ve seen, most females have suffered from trauma. I have heard women who prefer online recovery; that make sense to me. I’ve been to InTheRooms.com; as professionals we have a duty to know what’s out there. And there are some crazies online.If someone has an Eastern philosophy bent, I’ll send them to Refuge Recovery; I’ve been there. If I can, I’ll set them up with somebody that I know can help them. And let’s not forget that some youth, if Christianity is your thing, Celebrate Recovery is amazing — talk about a community that wraps themselves around the substance user. There are movie nights, food, all kinds of extracurricular activities. The SMART Recovery Movement? Excellent. SMART momentum is building in Milwaukee. They are goal-oriented and the person gets supported whether they’re on Suboxone or, in one case I know, micro-dosing with LSD for depression; they’ll be supported either way. My goal with youth is: ‘Try to get to one meeting this month; start slow.’ Don’t set the bar too high and if they enjoy it, then great.The 12-step meeting I go to, it’s a men’s meeting. There are people there on medication and they don’t get blow-back. I wish more of AA was like this. When I came in, almost 30 years ago now, I saw all the God-stuff on the walls and I thought, ‘Nah, this isn’t going to work’ but thank G… (laughs), thank the Group of Drunks who said, ‘You don’t have to believe in that.’ The range in my meeting is broad—Eastern philosophy, Native American practices, Yoga, I was invited to Transcendental Meditation meetings at members’ houses. I was fortunate to fall into this group. You know, the first book my sponsor gave me was The Tao of Physics—not The Big Book—it was this 70’s book with Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, correlated to physics and contemporary science.”So, as to the question that kicked this off, some mutual aid meetings are ready to meet the taste of a new generation; results may vary. Who’s heard: “If you haven’t met anyone you don’t like in AA, you haven’t gone to enough meetings”?The reverse is true, also. If the peer-to-peer meetings I’ve sampled seem too narrow or dogmatic, maybe my search for just the right fit isn’t over. And if I don’t want a face-to-face meeting, there’s always Kevin’s podcast, virtual communities like The Fix, or I can order one of Bob or David or Jeffrey’s books if that’s more to my taste.

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alexdmorgan30 · 5 years

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Is AA Too Religious for Generation Z?

from RSSMix.com Mix ID 8241841 http://bit.ly/2B5JhVm

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emlydunstan · 5 years

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Is AA Too Religious for Generation Z?

from RSSMix.com Mix ID 8241841 https://www.thefix.com/aa-too-religious-generation-z

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