#regardless. i adored vespertine. i wish other ppl of faith felt the same!!

[soldier-poet-king]

Ok not gonna actually put my replies on someone's post bc that's RUDE (and it's not borne out of ill will I genuinely like discussing this stuff but idk if that is appropriate here!! I don't know this person!! I am bad at knowing when to open my mouth!) but I really liked the theology of vespertine? I didn't take it as things done in the Lady's name are Valid Religious Actions, nor did I take it that both good and evil come from the Lady. Its clearly based off of Christianity, and i thought the questions it asked about theodicy were quite interesting (and perhaps my favourite bit of the book, and why I found it so moving).

It was less that the Lady causes xyz bad thing to happen, and more that the Lady /allows/ xyz bad thing to happen only so that ultimately some good can be brought out of it. Which, imo, is very in line with a Christian view of theodicy, esp in the Pauline epistles (and Job, and obvs the Gospels). Evil is brought into the world by human action, but that human action is allowed to happen (BC free will) and ultimately is transformed toward the Good. That doesn't mean that ppl aren't shitheads who claim that their evil is divinely sanctioned, nor that hurt people do not (understandably) blame the divine and lash out in their hurt. But that ultimately, for whatever ineffable reason the inexorable will of god PERMITS evil to occur, knowing in divine wisdom and grace it will be transformed to the Good.

That's not a comfort. Not really. I think it is frightening and terrifying and awe-inspiring and horrible all at once. I have my own personal feelings on the subject. I just think it's an important distinction, and fwiw much closer to my own reading of the book. Its the same sort of troubling not-answers to questions of divine providence, grace, and the will of god that the sparrow duology examines (in a much less harrowing way, albiet, the sparrow is heavy).

Idk man I think I'm just fascinated by theodicy and conceptions of evil in non dualistic universe where evil exists despite an omnipotent and all-good divinity. I think the Augustine Brainrot got me.

#i am only mutual in laws with this person and idk if theyre comfortable with me randomly saying shit #and so!!! i will go on my little theodicy rambles on my own #idk man. i just really loved vespertine. one of the top books i read this year #i found it incredibly comforting and also incredibly disquieting #that sense of divine providence that is both suffering and grace #i didn expect it to wrestle with that #and i dont think it did it in a way that's really incompatible with christianity tbh #but maybe i have greek philosphy brainrot and a lot of weird thoughts and feelings abt theodicy more generally speaking #i know my opinions arent often mainline wrt faith #regardless. i adored vespertine. i wish other ppl of faith felt the same!! #its not really a big deal im just. thinking my silly lil thoughts all the time