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chirpsythismorning · 4 days

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Fun fact: In the original pitch for Stranger Things, El had a little brother.

After being rejected by almost 20 studios for the Montauk pilot, the Duffers were finally green-lit by Netflix. It was at this time that they began casting and then writing the first season officially, which included reworking a lot of that first episode.

This led to the removal of the brother reference, and with it, removing any sort of arc El could have had about her apparent brother.

But the thing about this moment, is that it might not have been scrapped entirely...

Going into the final season, no one can explain why or how El recognized Will back in 1x02. And while there are plenty of things on the show that are left unexplained, with a small portion likely left that way with the intention to uncover it later, what sets this moment apart from the rest is that there are very few possibilities here.

Because for starters, the story presents El's ability to see people in the void in s1 as requiring either a picture of that person for reference, or having met that person before.

But when El see's this picture of Will, she's never met him before. Or maybe she has, but we wouldn't know because they never showed us. They could have just not done this scene at all, given that it's clearly a copy/paste/edit of something scrapped from the pitch. Or they could have even still included it, but explained it.

One explanation could be that the lab had shown El a picture of Will before, similar to what they did with the Russian agent they wanted to spy on. But then that begs to question, why would the lab show El a picture of Will? Why would they want to see what he was doing? That alone is incriminating in and of itself, implying that Will is more connected to the lab than we realize.

The only other, and frankly most likely explanation, would be that El stumbled across Will at some point on her journey between escaping the lab and Will going missing. This is actually something that happens in The Other Side comic, which explores all the things Will may have experienced during his time in the Upside Down.

Though it’s worth noting the comics aren’t technically canon, and I highly doubt they would outright spoil everything in relation to Will’s time there, years before it was intended to be revealed. But still, let's humor this for a moment given that I do think Will's time in the UD is going to be very relevant in s5, which means it's highly likely they will finally address how exactly El saw him.

Basically, in the comic, Will see’s El walking through the woods, almost apparition like, glowing as she passes by, while also sporting the Benny’s burgers shirt. This means they would have crossed passed within a short span of time, between when El escaped Benny’s when the agents arrived, but before she was found by the boys.

Though it’s worth noting that we’re seeing this all from Will’s perspective. This means from the UD, Will was capable of seeing El on the other side, despite them being on different sides. And not only that, but she also looks back at him.

What confuses me about this, is that it doesn’t make sense for El to be in the woods, only to randomly decide to pop in to the void for a moment. She was trying to escape the lab and everything that came with it. I doubt she had any desire to lurk back there for some reason, not until someone encouraged her to. Not to mention, it would make no sense for her to go there and see Will if she wasn't even looking for him in the first place. And so this would mean Will and El could see each other, with Will being in the UD, and El being on the other side.

While it does seem pretty far off, given that you would think Will and El wouldn't be able to see each other from different sides, it is true in the story that El not only recognizes Will, but knows that he is in danger. She mentions that he is hiding specifically.

Which means she has likely seen him within the last 24 hours regardless.

This, in combination with Will being able to respond to El in the void at the end of the season in Castle Byers, when no one else outside of Terry and flayed-Billy have been able to, seems to imply that there is indeed something special about Will that makes him capable of communicating with El from the UD. Not only that, but El also seems to have an ability to be in this constant knowing state of how Will is doing, without even checking again to confirm. She's just certain of it. And she seems terrified about it.

Going forward, El never uses a picture of Will to find him. She never did. And more often than not, they don’t show us what she see’s either, not until the very end. And that’s the moment they reveal that he was able to communicate with her.

Again, there was really no reason to have El recognize Will. If anything it complicates things. But the fact that they chose to introduce this concept, with a scene from the original pitch that was related to El’s younger brother, with her pointing at his name cryptically, startling Benny, only to revamp it and have El not say anything at all while pointing at the picture of Will, startling Mike… It just really makes you stop and think.

Which brings me to the other aspect of this that might have people doubting, which is that El’s brother was originally younger than her.

We know Will is not younger than El, so how could this apply to him?

Well, it might be helpful to consider that in the original script, El was actually 10 years old, while the boys were always 12. Meaning that for some reason, they decided to age her up to the age of the boys, aka the same age as Will…

Ever since @erikiara80 shared this brother discovery with me, I have been sort of reeling. It then led to other little discoveries of changes they made between Montauk and Stranger Things.

It’s important to understand that the Montauk bible and the original script precedes what we ended up with in the final product, with it finally changing and evolving months, maybe even a year since that original vision. Even casting occurred before writing started for the first season. We know this because casting announcements were made in June and August of 2015, with writing not starting until August going into early 2016, simultaneously while they were filming.

And believe it or not, what I've discovered is that a lot of the changes they made between their original plans and what we see in the final product, have to do with not only Willel, but also Byler.

If you've read the original script for Montauk, you'll know that Mike's crush on Jennifer Hayes was focused on right from the jump, along with the birthmark on his face being focused on, which was the main cause of the bullying he experienced.

This has actually been talked about recently, and some of the claims people make do fit with what I am genuinely starting to consider here, which is that the initial plan for what makes Mike an outcast shifted.

I think when they completed casting, and started actually deep diving into what they wanted this world to look like, both from a short-term and long-term standpoint, they were presented with some pretty interesting discoveries, arguably already hiding in their initial plans without realizing it.

And this is where it sort of becomes a 'chicken or the egg' situation. Because which one came first? Byler or Willel?

I can't say for certain, because obviously this is all just speculation. But in the case that Willel came first, I think Byler would come very naturally after that.

The Duffers themselves are twins. Then they hire Noah, who is a twin. Then they're thinking and planning for El's past and how her family all fits into this, and they're thinking... wait a damn minute... We could totally Star Wars this bitch!

And then when they think it couldn't get any better, they uncover another layer that they hadn't planned or really considered in their initial plans.

While Will was always going to have sexual identity issues according to the Montauk bible, meaning that the writing process for him likely involved sitting down imagining scenarios that encapsulated this arc for Will from the beginning, they were simultaneously now finding very interesting aspects of Mike's character that made it hard not to at least consider the possiblity that Mike is not exactly straight.

Just think about it. The Byers and Wheelers are basically polar opposites on the spectrum of what a family looks like. While Will's discovery and acceptance of his queerness is interesting to explore because he comes from a low-income, single-mom household, all while having been bullied for years based on his perceived queerness, he also has a mother and brother constantly reinforcing that they will accept him no matter what. They've been sort of hitting us over the head with it for years, and so it wouldn't be very satisfying for his entire arc to merely lead up to something we've known all along. It's pretty much a given at this point.

On the other side of the spectrum, Mike comes from a more upper-middle class family at the end of a cul-de-sac, more aligned with what a nuclear family looks like. Mike's family is also presented as being more conservative, and while Karen does give that very queer-coded speech to Mike in s1 (I'm convinced they only wrote this after deciding to explore queer-coding more heavily with Mike), it also comes with comments from Ted and even still Karen that hint that they are probably not as open-minded and accepting as Will's family is to him. Which means Mike's arc would be a lot more about acceptance around him from his loved ones who we have been led to believe might not be as accepting of his queerness in contrast to Will.

And so as they're putting this story together, and they're being presented with something very interesting. Two similar experiences that play out in different ways because of the characters circumstances.

Will goes missing, and his twin sister with a buzzcut pops up and has the ability to help them find Will.

This leads to several moments where El is being compared to as not only a boy, but Will as well.

Now suddenly, their initial plans to have Mike's arc be about having a girl be interested in him and to hopefully have his first kiss and feel like less of a loser, starts to look a lot like what the experience a queer kid in his position might encounter growing up in the environment that he did.

And if you don't want to take my word for it, just hear the Duffer's themselves hinting at what they initially planned for Mike and the fact that it changed.

The changes don't stop there.

Believe it or not, 'It was a seven', did not exist in the initial pitch. When the boys went outside bickering over Nancy, they leave right after that.

Another thing that changed from the first script, was Scott Clarke's introduction:

And so you might be thinking, who cares? What does that have to do with anything?

Well, it's interesting because the line we end up with on the show is arguably one of the most on the nose Twelvegate proofs to date. Mind you, this is from the first episode:

Why chuck the original version, which was arguably more interesting and fascinating in terms of it hinting at the mysteriousness surrounding this story, only to replace it with him listing off tips about their upcoming test?

Well, I think it's the irony of it all. Here Mr. Clarke is practically telling us where to look to figure stuff out for ourselves what is going on, with all the kids filing out and ignoring him...

I relate to Scott a litttle too much in this shot here, any time I try to drop Willel evidence.

And the changes go on, as they obviously would.

Things like Terry Ives not even being El's mom, but actually a man who more so aligns with the characterization of Murray.

And one very interesting one I almost overlooked was in Hopper's introduction, where instead of a kids drawing done by who we assume to be Sarah, we actually see a picture on the wall of him and his wife and daughter... Interesting that they decided to switch it something that is a lot less definitive in presenting what Hopper's past looked like...

If you've made it this far, congratulations.

If you still think I'm out of my mind, just remember that El was going to have a brother in the original script, but they scrapped the scene and gave a near identical one to introduce her connection to Will instead 😘

#byler #stranger things #willel twins #twelvegate #montauk #as you can see #i am out of my mind #and i'm okay with that #i've spent the last couple months trying to make a video going over all the willel twin evidence #and i can't decide if it's even possible to do without going over an hour #like there is just so much shit that fits too perfectly into this family being ripped apart by mind control and time shenanigans #i hope to have it done soon #trying to make it less than 20 minutes #but it's probably going to end up being closer to an hour #especially with this stuff from the montauk pitch being added to the mix now #anyways #willel and byler are the curtain behind the curtain #if you are open to one of them #you are bound to stumble across the other #and they don't want that to happen #stay tuned for the inevitable twin imagery to continue in s5 related to willel leading up to the big reveal #bc it's arguably the most consistent thing about this damn show #and tbh this all just makes the queer-coding for mike in s1 a lot more concrete to me #them exploring will's queerness through his dad's expectations for him to do more 'manly' things like play baseball #and jonathan saying he shouldn't like things just bc people telll him he's supposed to #how they connect that narratively with the boys being at a baseball field when mike's being pressured about his supposed feelings for el #with the bullies showing up and literally being homophobic seconds later #the fact that jennifer hayes did in fact exist in the original pilot and was the girl mike had a crush on #only for them to scrap that and just make it about her having a crush on will...#never once introducing this idea of mike liking her...

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buckttommy · 16 days

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every day i make myself sick thinking about tommy calling buck petnames

#baby when he's being tender / during sex. sweetheart when he's being casual like when they're with their friends/family #my love when he's a little annoyed. darling when they're about to dunk on a homophobe #the possibilities are endless #tv: 911 #jack.txt #bucktommy

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imharnaannesta · 16 days

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Okay, I’ve been enjoying all the “Buck is an Ally” jokes but, especially after the scene with Maddie, I feel like there’s an element there that’s not being discussed but that rings really true of a lot of people’s queer experiences.

I’m pretty sure Buck knows that being a man and going on a date with a man makes him some flavor of queer. He’s not that dumb, he can do that math.

But he’s nervous! There’s something exposed and uncomfortable about going on this date, telling his friends and family, being seen to be something other than straight. And he feels like he shouldn’t feel that way. He thinks being queer is great! It’s totally normal! No one should feel uncomfortable about being visibly queer!

So if he’s uncomfortable, if he feels exposed, if he doesn’t want to tell his friends or family right away, if he lies about it? Was he never as okay with all of this as he thought he was? Was he not actually an ally?

I feel like allyship can come with this sort of expectation that you’d transition gracefully into being queer. That it would be comfortable and easy. And that expectation can actually make it a lot more uncomfortable. Because being comfortable with queerness and being comfortable with self-discovery are two very different things but when the self-discovery you’re dealing with is your own queerness they don’t seem separate.

It can really feel like “if you were a good ally you’d be totally comfortable being perceived as queer” sometimes. And obviously that’s not true. Coming out can be extremely vulnerable and it can be really uncomfortable to do any kind of self-discovery but especially figuring out your sexuality. And especially later in life. And I think it really makes a lot of sense that Buck, who is definitely feeling unsure and exposed, feels like he shouldn’t feel that way because he’s been an ally. So he feels like he needs to validate that past experience of being an ally. He’s seeking validation that being unsure in this self-discovery doesn’t negate his past acceptance of and comfort with queerness. And I think he does get that validation from Maddie.

And I think there’s an interesting conversation (and maybe some interesting fanfiction) there if we just dig a little deeper past the jokes.

#evan buckley #911 #possibly slightly nonsensical rambling #but the fact that he said it more than once really stuck out to me #and as someone who was figuring out my sexuality while trying to be a good ally #there’s something so particular about the way that the pressure to be a good ally can make realizing you’re gay feel weirdly homophobic #like if you’re not ready to dance down the street with a flag then you must secretly hate gay people #never mind that you’re maybe not even totally sure of your labels yet

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junebugtwin · 9 months

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what if they were happy huh?? what then!!!!

#worm #parahumans #taylor hebert #skitter #brian laborn #grue #auggg they were just teenagers....should have been able to have a bunch of sibly dates an stuf....#i think they could have worked!#and also i think even in a no powers au those 2 could have possibly been friends it just would have taken two years #of them being in the same theater class that they are both there against their will at #taylor because its an elective without her bullies in it and brian because aisha is in it and he wanted to support her interests #and they really needed a stage hand come ON brian dont you LOVE your SISTER #they would stand silently and uncomfortably next 2 eachother while all the other drama nerds laugh and joke around eachother #thinking vaguely homophobic thoughts before eventually having extremely tame conversation every two days #also man i sure do hate drawing humans!!!!! poses and hands and faces!!! suffering!!!

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brokenbackmountain · 3 months

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south asian music recs pt 1

ok. i might just be very indian but i have barely seen any south asian independent music (NO i'm not counting coke studio), since india's music runs on 1) filmi and 2) coke studio (which again. not counting that as independent music. fuck coke studio). and 1 gets boring while 2. well. the boycotts. also adding that since i have a massive preference for rock music, this post will be primarily focusing on that. sorry about that.

note: this list might also have more of india than for other countries bc i'm indian and thus have more experience with indian music. very fucked up language order to keep you on your toes.

India:

Motherjane (genre: rock; they have a lot of carnatic influences as well): formed in 1996, based in kochi. they sing in english. i would recommend listening to chasing the sun, jihad, and soul corporations

Avial (genre: alternative rock): formed in 2003, based in thiruvanandapuram. they sing in malayalam. i would recommend chekele, aadu pambe, nada nada

Pineapple Express (genre: multi. mixes rock, pop, carnatic, experimental, electronic, progressive): formed in 2016, multillingual, no set place they're based in. i would recommend anthem, jazbaat, dil se (yes That dil se. their cover slaps.)

Agam (genre: carnatic rock): formed in 2003, based primarily in bangalore though many members are from kerala. multillingual. i would recommend rangapura vihara, koothu over coffee, the celestial nymph (manassi dussaham)

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foxx-queen · 6 months

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been running around act 2 trying to work out the timeline of what happened back when ketheric was defeated and im still stuck on a few things but i think ive managed to sort out most of it?

isobel dies. she doesn't remember how she died, and if you talk to squire, ketheric's dog, she says that ketheric told her she died the same night as isobel, trying to protect her. but she also doesn't remember how she died/what she was protecting isobel from.

ketheric turns to shar. he and balthazar imprison aylin in the shadowfell and build the gauntlet around that prison. i wasn't super clear on when? this happened, but she's definitely been imprisoned for at least a century, and it would've had to have been not long after he turned to shar otherwise aylin wouldn't have trusted him - i'm pretty sure she said they lured her there by saying someone was in danger? which i doubt she would've trusted if she'd known he'd converted to shar at the time.

ketheric raises an army of dark justiciars in shar's name and rebuilds the fortress in the underdark, which was already in ruin at that point. he plans to lead an assault from moonrise and the underdark.

the harpers and the druids gather in force to stop him.

at the same time, there's a very small selunite resistance in reithwin, lead by the grand mason of the mason's guild. he makes a deal with raphael to wipe out ketheric's forces. raphael sends yurgir and his army via the underdark to wipe out the dark justiciars in the fortress/temple, while ensuring theres still one alive to keep yurgir trapped there. im not entirely sure why raphael offered the mason that deal? he obviously gets the mason's soul, but it seems like a lot in exchange for one soul? yurgir says raphael mentioned 'something about an aasimar', which would've been aylin, but i can't figure out what raphael would've meant by that.

the harpers and druids defeat ketheric. this is where i get a bit confused, because if you ask jaheria about it she says she buried ketheric in the mausoleum herself, and that he was definitely dead. but when he gets attacked in the present day he heals straight away, so im not sure how he was definitely dead if he was already bound to aylin? and if he wasn't dead, it's not like they could've missed that?

im not sure exactly when ketheric was supposed to have been bought back? im assuming it had something to do with balthazar, but again i can't work out if he was actually dead or not. also not sure if he'd just been chilling in moonrise for a century before myrkul offered to bring back isobel in exchange for him becoming myrkuls chosen/joining with the other chosen. isobel probably hasn't been back for that long either by the time jaheria and the harpers arrive at last light in, otherwise ketheric probably would've found another way to try and retrieve her.

in terms of how isobel died, im very suss about the fact that she and squire both don't remember anything about it. it could be just the trauma of dying but i also wouldn't be surprised if their memories were removed, which sharrans definitely know how to do.

#baldur's gate 3 #baldur's gate 3 spoilers #isobel thorm #dame aylin #ketheric thorm #raphael bg3 #mainly posting this incase anyone else has found additional stuff because im definitely missing some things #running around trying to work out the timeline / exactly what happened like that math lady gif #im mainly just stuck on how ketheric died / who brought him back. because he shouldn't have been able to die if he already had aylin?#its possible myrkul resurrected him for the purpose of being his chosen?#also not sure exactly why raphael offered to deal with the guild mason. i mean maybe it was all for the trouble of one soul but it seems #like a /lot/ of effort for one soul #also not sure what his mention of the assimar to yurgir was about??#also as a side note i love how isobel is just like. no mercy. kill my father. thats just what its like being gay and having a homophobic da

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femmesandhoney · 1 year

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tras trying to claim something is a human rights violation against trans people when it also affects every other citizen is so funny like...yeah we know you're human too but how is that specifically about trans people come on now 😭

#'we lack the right to abortions' no only females can experience that not just trans people #'we lack the right to marry' not even true #'we lack the right of bodily automony' children being denied medical transition bc its not proven to help them and lacks scientific backing #is not a human rights violation #'we lack the right to compete in sports' no you don't its just sex based #'we lack the right to education' again no you don't lmao and schools refusing to teach queer theory to children also isn't a human rights #violation #homophobic? more accurate considering the circumstances #again again again nothing is a human rights violation trans people have rights yall just wanna complain 😭#the closest one that possibly could be considered is the ban on expression/clothing in some states that are in govt seshs rn #closest one that i could see harming many people and being a clear constitutional violation especially #that's it tho...and considering so many US trans people wanna claim theres a genocide going on...yeah sure

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liquidstar · 1 month

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and now for something stupid

#but really i also just wanted to play around w this sort of coloring style bc its been FOREVER since ive used it #and i think i can make it look better now #AND i think i can make more sillay stuff like this and not have it take as long w cleaning up lines #anyway now you all understand the terrible dynamic between these three #phobo's infodump text is just copypasted from the wikipedia page for knives.#julliet ALSO uses knives is the thing so hes actually mansplaining < JOKE #he just wants to share. even if it gives her a headache. but he wouldnt mansplain he doesnt have it in him. hes ok with felonies tho #but julis life hasnt known peace since she was told to take care of the newbies #and shes ALSO a newbie (just slightly less so) so really this is probably just tartarus hazing her #theyd take one look at the two disorganized unserious overeager newbies and think ''you know what would be fucking hilarious''#and pass them onto the neurotic slightly-less-newbie who takes everything as seriously as possible. disaster combination.#i cannot stress enough that this is a group of bandits and murderers theyre NOT above hazing.#deimos actually is doing the best job at it since he is stealing as we speak #i mean hes not supposed to do it to his teammates but still. on the right track #as for the dynamic between deimos and phobos themselves its like. theyre just bros. theyre both pretty similar in personality #except deimos is kinda more mean and cynical while phobos can be kinda. dense and naive despite literally where hes at in life #but most of the time theyre basically beavis and butthead #i would also like to stress that juli is not being homophobic she just already cannot stand these guys and cant believe the audacity #but. complete misunderstanding. karma for stealing wallets ig #this will never be cleared up by anyone ever #but again thats not their dynamic they are just beavis and butthead. and i guess that makes juli daria LOL #finn's ocs #finn's art

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hadesoftheladies · 9 days

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actually american liberals can fuck all the way off with their "slur reclamation" bs. go to hell all of you.

#slurs will never be empowering #but to white people every slur is a new opportunity to be as quirky and annoying as possible #no i am not comfortable with a man calling me a bitch because he's gay stfu #no one can redeem a slur still in usage by the oppressors that created it #stop saying tr*nny #straight women stop saying d*ke #stop saying q*eer #no structural change but we're all supposed to pretend we're liberated #normie homophobes stop saying f*ggot #i am so tired of these disgusting words polluting every facet of lgb and leftist spaces #liberals #leftism #our rights are eroding everywhere but what is important here is that americans get to play a misogynistic stereotype of white women #from LA #“serving cunt” GROW A BRAINCELL LIKE JUST GROW ONE SINGLE BRAINCELL

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miscellaneousqueer · 3 months

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the homoerotic tension in rrr 🤝 the homoerotic tension in salaar

#if tollywood wasn’t so homophobic we could’ve gotten some bomb ass storylines out of both of these movies #like there’s sooo much possibility it’s such a shame #literally let men kiss each other 😤#salaar #rrr #tollywood

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athenasdragon · 5 months

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I cannot stop thinking about a theoretical adaptation of The Long Goodbye where everything is basically the same until Terry comes back at the end but instead of the plastic surgery to change his facial structure/ethnicity she’s had a sex change and accompanying plastic surgery. I just feel like it plays SO WELL with the themes, also I want the moment of Marlowe’s brain shutting down as he realizes who this hot woman is and then his entire relationship with them clicks into place

#Terry Lennox all-pronouns post #also like realistically this man is so homophobic. his brain would be doing backflips around this new information #but I do also like the idea. similar to a lot of books where the female lead disguises herself as a man then falls in love.#that Marlowe would just go OH ok it wasn’t gay this whole time :) problem solved. and then not examine any further #have I made this exact post before. it’s possible #Philip Marlowe #the long goodbye

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patroclusdefencesquad · 1 year

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u know...the more i think about it the more convinced i am that jaskier is going to have the messiest dirtiest gay sex on screen in season 3...no i'm kidding but seriously i am convinced they're gonna let him be fruity next season

#i mean there's that possible script that RI had ages ago #where's there's the king maybe flirting with him?#there was a lot of ifs and maybes but everyone seemed convinced it was jaskier #and then with blood origin it's like they're trying to ease us (ease the homophobes) into the idea of the bard fucking men (himself)#before he gets on his knees and sucks dick in s3 #see if i get bisexual bard AND lesbians next season...#i'm not saying it'll make up for whatever else is sure to disappoint me but it'll be gosh darn close #the witcher #jaskier

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chirpsythismorning · 1 year

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I really despise the whole, “Why can’t boys just be friends anymore’, argument. They say this as if there is over representation of stories where two childhood (boy) friends end up together. In reality, I literally cannot think of one example of that in media…

If anything there’s an over-saturation of love at first sight and boy/girl childhood friends ending up together. Like I could list off dozens of movies that follow those tropes, easily.

Average viewers are often incapable of seeing a boy and a girl as just friends. THATS the real issue, not the complete opposite argument they are spouting. And so if anything you should be arguing, “why can’t girls and boys just be friends anymore’, bc there is actually a lot of evidence pointing to the fact that most audiences are incapable of seeing a boy/girl as platonic. Like if there is any ounce of chemistry, they are meant to be. Whereas if a boy and boy have a fucking laundry list of chemistry and romantic coded moments, it’s ‘reaching’???

When it comes to Mike and Eleven, they’re no different. Viewers are fully convinced that they have to be together bc he’s a boy and she’s a girl and that’s just the way it is. People were literally shipping Eddie with Chrissy despite them having only a couple scenes in one episode out of the entire show. People ate that up. And all the homophobes hating on bylers for even considering them as a pairing, had no problem with people shipping Eddie and Chrissy, bc he’s a boy and she’s a girl. They’re capable of seeing the chemistry bc they’ve seen stories like that their entire lives.

If anything I would really like to see more duos like Robin and Steve, unfortunately it literally requires one of them to be gay in order for people to refrain from shipping them (and some still do it, regardless of Robin’s canon sexuality).

If you’re gonna make arguments for why you think byler shouldn’t be endgame, at least come up with something that actually makes sense. Because this whole ‘Why can’t boys just be friends anymore,’ argument wreaks of homophobia and willful ignorance.

#stranger things #byler #st fandom #no but… they sound so fucking stupid #they’re the ones incapable of even humoring the possibility of Mike and El ending the show platonic #bc THEY are incapable of seeing boys and girls as friends #like pls stop projecting your own problems onto us #we’re just looking at the evidence and supporting it #a lot of bylers aren’t even bylers bc they liked the pairing romantically first #most saw ALL the evidence and that’s what made them ship it #it’s not all about them being two boys #that’s literally just a bonus #bc best believe if a girl/boy duo had half the chemistry and buildup that byler did #these homophobes would be in the trenches defending them #but alas #internalized homophobia is a bitch

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