#Because we see Vash making so many sacrifices of himself

[magadauthan]

Ep 25: Live Through

@trigun98watchparty My time has come.

I watched "Live Through" in Japanese and English for this recap. For science. It's not because this is my favorite episode, no. That has nothing to do with anything.

--How did Milly and Meryl get Vash away from LR? Does 1 ile = 1 mile? Did they swipe Legato's Cinderella coach?

--that floppy hair *swoon*

--Some have criticized Meryl for ducking outside as soon as Vash begins to talk. Perhaps that is merited, and she does carry a good measure of guilt for following him, but it felt to me more like she wanted to give him space and / or privacy. Having loud emotions all over the place is frowned on in Japanese culture, and Meryl is very, very polite. Maybe she just doesn't know what to do and panics (Vash has not always been encouraging in terms of having her around, in general). Either way, it tears her up inside to hear him wailing in despair.

--Obviously Meryl has been home tending to Vash while Milly works. It's nice to see Meryl recognize that Milly is busting her butt, but she doesn't know how to address Milly's feelings, either.

--Vash should not be up and about - he's weak and feverish and not a little delirious. Good thing Milly can carry him.

--Get in there, big sis, and tell Meryl it's okay that she loves him. She's absolutely right in that Legato would have found a way to make Vash shoot him whether or not the two of them were involved. Never hold back in matters of the heart.

--My favorite scene. Meryl, alone in the light of the fifth moon, diligently mending Vash's coat. She wants to put him back together and make him whole again, even if she gets hurt in the process. She's desperately in love with him, and she holds the kind person he is close to her heart... but he was the one who put the hole in the moon. How can she reconcile that?

--Vash does look happier.

--He tries to pet the kitty, and Kuroneko gives him a swat, which some interpret as the Trigun Goddess telling Vash to get it in gear. This is incorrect. Cats are just assholes.

--It didn't stop with Legato, now, did it. Knives is pressing harder.

--"Sound Life" must be a song they teach in NML kindergarten. Many people seem to know it, including Kaite and Meryl. (the lyrics really need to scan better, it's so awkwardly phrased)

--This scene is such a tough one. It's lovely - two lovers out under the stars, right? And Meryl is so happy that Vash is considering staying with them. But it's also plain to see that he might have given up. It would be easy, wouldn't it? Let the girls take care of him while he hides. Don't do anything, and wait for an answer.

--What were you doing up so late, Meryl? (we had some ideas)

--There's no way that the townspeople could have captured someone like Vash if he hadn't let them do it. He's so broken that he won't fight back. He's a sinner now, like Knives, like Legato, beyond redemption.

Except...

...Knives assumes that Vash would sacrifice himself for everyone else. Someone else sacrificing herself for him had never been part of the equation.

--So many have stopped believing in Vash, or he thinks they have. They turn their backs on him and he accepts it as the normal course of things. Jessica's crush was childish (I was gonna marry Luke Skywalker when I was four, just saying) but even she ran away after what happened to the ship. That's why it's so important that Meryl loves him. She has made her decision, and she's steadfast in it.

--Maybe Vash doesn't realize how much she loves him until she puts herself between him and the gun, and he hears Rem's words from Meryl's mouth and sees Rem one more time. If Meryl still loves him, then Rem can still love him too. Mistakes happen but you can learn from them, and if you have the right people in your life, they will love you through your mistakes and help you to make it better.

--And finally, Vash realizes that Rem's words apply to him, too, and that he is no less deserving of a second chance and a future than any of the others he's impressed those words on. Does that make Meryl the analogue to Alex? I think it does.

--Awww, such a sweet snuggle. And then Vash has to go doof it up like normal and Meryl has to freak out like normal. It's their love language. (TBH I'd punch my husband too if he rubbed his stubbly face on me like that.)

--What happened after that? (we have some ideas)

--Vash gets ready to go. Seeing him wash up and shave is oddly pleasing, a reminder that despite his Plant-ness, he's a regular dude who has to wash his face and brush his teeth and get haircuts and have breakfast and do all that human stuff.

--Meryl wants to say something to Vash, but she's gotten wiser too. She recognizes that even though there might be a lot that she wants to tell him (and, I think, he might want to tell her too), stating her feelings in the open would be a distraction (or even a burden) he doesn't need right then. Milly is right. There will be time when he gets back.

It doesn't come through in English, but he's so gentle with her in Japanese. He knows what she wants to say. In his own way, at that time, he's saying I love you too.

--Vash takes WW with him, with Milly's love and blessing. May you go with God's protection.

#trigun #trigun 98 watch party #Day 25 #live through #vashmeryl #vash x meryl

[revenantghost]

A wee bit fucked up that both of the twins would rather die for their ideals than give any ground, no?

#Trigun #Trigun Stampede #Tristamp #A lot of posts have put it far better than I have here #But this is one of the best examples of how DESPERATE Knives is #Because we see Vash making so many sacrifices of himself #But Knives here #Hoo boy #Furthering his goals of destroying humanity AND Vash #Two for one deal babyyyyy

[collieii]

i'm sure it's been said but i do love how trimax handles wolfwoods death. i've seen so many stories that have characters die and they just go away after. i'm really used to stories where the other characters aren't allowed to grieve, the story keeps going and it feels like the other characters aren't really affected or get over it really easily. but in trimax wolfwoods death is so important. we see other characters grieving him. vash protecting the orphanage, expanding his power when he really shouldn't, because it was wolfwood's home, even though wolfwood is already gone. he gets an actual burial. vash and livio eating their way through the grief, which is more comedic but still shows us how important he was to the two of them, sets up how in many ways they're fighting in his memory.

even after he's gone he's still present in the story in such a strong way. we can see how he's affected the other characters, even when they don't explicitly mention him it's obvious that they're thinking about him. what he did when he was alive, and his death itself, are so important to the story even after he's not there. not just in a really abstract "this is someone we lost" way (though there are a lot of times his death and sacrifice motivate vash and livio to fight harder!) he's present in the finale in a material way to livio, who uses his serums to help fight against elendira, which ofc also ties into the way wolfwoods choice to ally with vash and fight against knives gave livio strength to do the same. wolfwood showed him that there are things worth fighting for, things worth protecting. that your body is a weapon, but you can choose what to do with it, use it for something meaningful.

and the way vash kills legato in order to save livio? vash outright says that he did it to protect what wolfwood fought for, sacrificed his life for. it's tied to the ongoing arc between vash and wolfwood, their conflict over the necessity of killing others. wolfwood pushed vash into having an understanding of his views when he was alive, demonstrating the necessity of that violence. simultaneously, vash inspired wolfwood to follow his path, a kinder one. vash remembers what wolfwood said to him, and his death gives those words added poignancy. wolfwood well and truly sacrificed everything to protect what he loved and fight for what he believed in. how can vash let that go to waste? he sacrifices something just as meaningful to himself, and he pulls the trigger. it brings him closer to wolfwood in a way he never was before. he understands now, fundamentally, what motivates people, motivated wolfwood, to act as he did when he took lives. there are so many other ways wolfwood is present in the story after his death i can't talk about all of them but it makes me so crazy

#trigun #trigun maximum #nicholas d. wolfwood #not to say that there aren't lots of stories that handle character death well bc there are! #i am by no means an expert in media but in my experience esp with like #action anime in particular it can be p common for important characters to die and then their death is just not processed at all #i know that stories have to keep things moving but it feels so weird when characters don't grieve or even cry at least a little! #like that was a person that you knew! are you not affected in any way! #it can feel so dehumanizing to me imo when characters bounce back so quickly after someone they knew died like c'mon #at least to me anyways #that's why i love the scene where vash cries after ww dies in 98 too. maybe i just don't consume enough media where characters die #but i was really surprised that they included that! surprised and pleased. it felt like such a human thing for him to do #to try and pretend everything is ok but he just can't ignore the fact that ww is dead and it just hits him #right there in the street in the middle of the day. and there's not anything he can do but cry. ugh #.lieii #trigun analysis #trigun livio #vash the stampede #trigun meta #.lieii txt #honestly i haven't read the finale arc in a while so i don't want to talk too in depth about it #but it is really excellent how present he is. without being present #talking about trimax is so hard bc there's so much. so many themes #me when a story has themes: GRAAH #like every post i make this is rambling and doesn't have much of a point but do you get what i'm saying #come to collieii hq where you get an essay in the post and another much worse essay in the tags #trimax spoilers

[makima-s-most-smile]

Trigun Maximum 10.2

How can it get worse and worse?! When did this manga take a turn to despair… I know, like 11 volumes ago… *flops facedown* I am hit critically in the feels.

Trigun Ultimate: 1.1, 1.2, 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4 Trigun Maximum: 1.1, 1.2, 2.1, 2.2, 3.1, 3.2, 4.1, 4.2, 5.1, 5.2, 6.1, 6.2, 7.1, 7.2, 8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 9.1, 9.2, 10.1, You are here!

03: Sudden Change

Oh, how this chapter title took me for a spin in my first read through. Yes, the tides of the battle turn, but not completely and at what cost? There is a change in Wolfwood, too, physically, but also mentally. 

Yeah, as if you were his best friend and he couldn’t live with the idea of losing you. Especially with what you sacrificed for him repeatedly.

But behind that, there is Wolfwood’s core problem. He sees himself as a burden. Not only is everyone else more important, his existence is a burden for others. Something he has to make up. That’s why Chapel got his claws around him so easily. Remember back at Vash’ and Wolfwood’s first meeting?

He left the place either as a young teen or a preteen… And even there he constantly worked as a caretaker for the other kids, to lessen the load on Miss Melanie and the other staff. 

While there is a cold logic to Wolfwood’s decision: Vash needs to save the whole world, Wolfwood cannot risk him for my much smaller problem. Though, in reality it boils down to: I cannot burden him. Wolfwood cannot take into consideration that he himself is an important person that not only needs, but is allowed to have someone at their side that protects them. He is that to other people, because he never had it himself.

Okay, it seems my question in the last volume got answered. When Wolfwood received his Punisher (the tenth), it was the tenth Punisher that has been ever made. Question is, did Razlo get new ones made or did he inherit those from the former members?

I can’t. Does Vash ever have nightmares about this after all is done? That Wolfwood stared at him with panicked eyes and then chose to kill himself for Vash, the kids and Livio?

This scene has so many different interpretations and I have a different one each time I read it. Right now I read it as: Vash is in trouble and Wolfwood is too hurt to help, so he makes the choice to sacrifice himself so Vash can protect the children. And with Vash being the shield for the children, Wolfwood has another chance to get through to Livio. If he fails, Wolfwood trusts that Vash can take him on.

A few pages later we see that Vash gets a punisher bullet through his side. So, Wolfwood’s assumptions seems more like a keen observation.

Speedwagon again… Why… would Chapel care in this situation if Wolfwood survives? Oh, no, that’s not it. It is that Wolfwood is in a position to stand up against Chapel and fight him, again. Chapel was so close to breaking Wolfwood down, but he failed and that’s what makes him call out to Wolfwood like he is an idiot that does not understand these vials and their workings. But Wolfwood does. Chapel cannot understand that something is more important for Wolfwood than his life.

Another reason why I think taking vials back to back amplifies their effect to the better and worse. Did Wolfwood grow, too? The cracking and bulging sounds imply that.

He turned into a breakdancer! *okay, jokes aside*

*sobs*

Does… Does Wolfwood headbutt Chapel to death?!? Naice.

In the end, Razlo is a little, bratty kid that had no one. He is dependent on Chapel. Chapel fostered the dependency to have control over Razlo. He used him. But Chapel was still Razlo’s safety anchor.

One more point for the team: Vash can hear thoughts of people who are dying. 

Poor Wolfwood, that he is a monster is just so ingrained into him that he cannot bear the thoughts of the people he loves so dearly see him. He cannot even fathom that they’d see something completely different than he does. And the return of the glasses! The glasses hide his true self, they hide his fear. They are his crutch that helps him to put distance between him and others.

I KNOW that this is Razlo being totally irrational, but I shouted out: “Oh, come on! You two just tortured the big brother of your other self!” Razlo is so strong, he never had to deal with the fear of losing, either his life or just a battle. Wolfwood goes into battles with the knowledge that he can not only die easily, it was one of the reasons why he reprimanded Vash for the risks he took. This is the first loss Razlo has experienced.

And fitting to that, Razlo did not care for Chapel as a person, he needed to be needed. Chapel filled that desire. It is about the loneliness that comes at the loss, not the loss itself. 

Oh, now we get an insight into Vash?! NOW! So it hurts even more?

Vash, if you truly listened to Wolfwood and tried to understand why he does the things he does, you would have understood that your beliefs aren’t that opposed. In the end, it is the scale that is different. But you never asked. You are so used to doing your own thing, that you trust what you get by your observation skills and do not really interact with the people or with the conflict that ensues. The whole “You give up hope too easily” stuff is a perfect example of this.

One of the reasons why I have a growing annoyance with Vash while the volumes go on is that we do not get his insight, we do not see him grow much. As much as he puts up distance between himself and others, we as readers are kept at a distance, too. That’s why the characters Wolfwood and Meryl are so important, because they are there for the readers as a point of reference. But that way we also grew incredibly close to them. I’d say closer to Wolfwood, since we get so much more insight into him and Meryl gets sadly pretty sidelined. We see them struggle with Vash and what he is and what that means for them, we see Wolfwood in constant conflict with his reality and how it opposes his morals. We do not get that from Vash. That often makes him seem aloof, stubborn and judgemental, at least to me. There are little flashes like the talk on Home, but those are very rare.

And back to the bird high in the air. It fits here, too. It is unreachable, up in the air. Wolfwood was seemingly free to do as he liked towards everyone. Freer than Vash could be with the chains Vash has put around himself to punish himself, robbing himself of so much agency to act in his own defence or defence of others. But Wolfwood was struggling the whole time to survive. His morals and his chosen responsibilities slowly suffocate him.

Battle buddies, my favourite trope.

The only way Wolfwood can show care or thanks. He hides behind his abrasiveness and the obvious problem looming over all of them. As he justified his leaving to himself, Vash is needed there and Wolfwood’s problems are just a negligible distraction. It is the fate of the world that is in Vash’ hands. 

The obvious answer is that Wolfwood is just so much more important for Vash than the fight with Knives. I’d even go so far and say that he needs his assistance in the fight, even if it is just for the mental boost. But neither of them is able to tell the other what they truly feel, they hide it behind banter, not speaking the most important words.

04: Death Omen 

Uh… didn’t we have a chapter with the same title? Eh… But fitting… 4 and death omen..

It is the only time he has… Wolfwood is so happy that Vash is there. He is grateful for their time together.

Wolfwood’s face behind the glasses. Vash does not understand what or why Wolfwood acts that way symbolised by the way Wolfwood’s eyes are hidden. And he throws Wolfwood’s words back into his face, how Wolfwood is a realist, how he has to survive at any cost. For the kids. Even for their friends.

And it clicks. Vash starts to realise that something is deeply wrong with Wolfwood. That Wolfwood is truly believing that he will die here. Vash may have even forgotten for a while that Wolfwood is in the end human. His childhood was exchanged for a fighter’s body and he has the vials. But has really ever understood what that meant? Did Vash see the wounds as something he has been already through, so Wolfwood would survive them, too? Vash is still in denial. But it starts to dawn on him. Are the wounds on Wolfwood too dire? 

The expressions of sorrow on Wolfwood is so… so… good. The sorrowful Wolfwood’s are with the best expressions he ever drew. 

It… It’s the page. Them desperately reaching out for each other. Vash finally had realised how important Wolfwood is to him, either during the arc-rescue or when Wolfwood ghosted him. And Vash finally stopped avoiding the connection they had, he seeked Wolfwood out, breaking a series going on for 150 years.

But it is too late. 

And Vash understands that Wolfwood is dying. He was too late.

How his fingers dig in… That is the side where Chapel shoved his weapon into, Wolfwood was speared there. There may be not much left under the suit. 

(Sidenote, since bible fanfiction. Jesus has been speared into the side, too, after the crucifixion to check if he was truly dead.)

Vash always does his best to not shoot in anger. But all is lost to him at that moment. The only reason why L/R survives is because Vash cherishes Wolfwood’s wishes too much to do more. But if Wolfwood would have been unsuccessful in saving Livio, I have no doubt that Vash would have murdered him in cold blood.

What else but leaving a man his dying wish?

This hurts so much. They finally got together, they finally bridged the gap that kept them apart for the whole time. They finally found understanding in each other. And now Wolfwood’s looming death parts them. The last panel shows the growing distance.

Wolfwood is the bird and the one longing at the same time. He has no real freedom, he never had, but had to struggle the whole time to survive. He wanted rest and peace, but his life did not offer him any of it. His only real choice was to be the protector for others. So that others have a place to rest and feel safe. So that their safety is not a cage, but that they gain both freedom and a home. And that led him to an early and brutal death. Is there true freedom in this decision? He chose his own path here. But at the same time, it was the only path he could take. The only way for Wolfwood to stay Wolfwood was to die. Breaking his morals here to save himself over Livio, would go against his whole person. He has to protect. Without being the protector, Wolfwood is not Wolfwood.

Vash is the bird and the human, too. Vash longs for the first time to be with a human, but he can only look in longing, since his wish will never be. After his long and painful existence, he truly wished to find peace with someone (platonically or romantically), but the bird that is Wolfwood has already passed him and he can only look at him in longing, because he has no way to reach him or make him stay.

Wolfwood is in full big brother mode. Razlo gets treated like the brat he is. It is funny that I wrote that Razlo is a brat before reading this.

The way Wolfwood’s eye is shown, tells us that he is serious. Very much so. Razlo is in for a hell of pain. 

Nightow is *chef's kiss* at cool expressions and poses.

Wolfwood not only received his death omen, he is a dead man walking. But he is the death omen, too. He will end the hold that Chapel has over Livio, over Razlo’s dead… uh… not body, since it is Lilvio’s. But Wolfwood will find a way.

#trigun bookclub #trigunbookclub #Trigun Maximum #Trigun #Trigun maximum Vol. 10.2 #gimme a rest please q-q #and it is not showing in the tags again #graaaaaaaaaaah

[screechthemighty]

Okay, part two of my Second Read of Trigun notes! We'll see if I get to the TriMax notes tonight, lol, but they are coming next. Those notes will be a lot more incoherent since that was a first readthrough and I had Many Thoughts.

Trigun Notes: Volume 2

Trigun #2.1: Blood and Thunder

Weirdly enough, NML has normal-looking pigeons in the manga

BLUESUMMERS YOU BITCH

Bluesummers aware that Vash’s pacifism is related to Rem’s sacrifice, throws that in his face and says it holds him back–not inaccurate, but RUDE. [Note: does he know this from Knives whining about her? Interesting thought that Knives has complained about his mom to his codependent right hand man]

So Vash is just hanging out and Bluesummers shows up, makes a ton of threats, leaves a severed head and waltzes off…what an intro.

Monev in that basement for 20+ years, corresponds roughly to the Stampede timeline of 20 from his return home to his confrontation with Vash @ the Windmill

Trigun #2.2: Diablo

“You could say that we’re caretakers of these seeds” - another element to Vash being so protective of humanity

“If [Alex] were alive today, I’m sure he’d do the same.” Rem haunted by Alex’s death like Vash will be haunted by hers

Interesting that we never clearly see Knives’ face in the flashbacks and he’s not even visible until he gloats about killing Rem

“Humans are ridiculous. They waste their lives on foolish feelings.” Hi, pot, meet kettle

Vash goes from angry and brooding to smiling (still sad, but smiling) the second Milly enters, but she again catches a glimpse of what’s underneath. Straight up decides she doesn’t want to touch that, though (can’t blame her!) [Note: still obsessed with how observant she is!!!]

Trigun #2.3: Fragile

Content Warnings: Just barely covered anime nudity

“Be still and listen when people are speaking to you” Knives: condescending in every timeline

“No. I’m the one who’s dangerous…hurry up…come and get me!” My dude is in pain and still has the guts to think that…love him

“If I shoot him now, then she’ll die” which stage of grief is this

So he was 100% about to shoot Monev before he remembered Rem…this bad boy can fit so much rage in him

Trigun #2.4: Scars

“Why does so much trouble follow this man? What kind of fate is he carrying?” His identical twin brother sucks, next question

Tiddy grill some kind of protective measure, maybe?

Meryl asks why Vash doesn’t just put away his guns and hide; Vash cites his inability to save Rem and the fact that he hasn’t settled the score with Knives as the reason why he can’t. [Future note: oooooggggh trimax made this worse too]

“I have only two choices: to die or let others die?! Rem didn’t sacrifice herself for that!” he is SO not just talking about himself here.

“From now on, I’m hunting you!” Run, bitch!!!!

Trigun #2.5: Slaughter Cafe

Content Warnings: Mention of rape and sex slavery, onscreen gore

Okay, I don’t condone murder but these dudes were SO asking for it

Irony  of the guy formerly denied all autonomy turning that back on those who hurt him? [Note: I feel like there’s a lot to unpack here actually]

Legato blaming Vash for him losing his patience…buddy you can say you have trauma and a grudge, that’s justifiable! [Note: Honestly, this moment strikes me as interesting in light of him condemning those who “let” him be violated as the same as those who hurt him…or does he figure that it doesn’t matter if he kills them now because they’ll die later, so him intervening in the moment is just a lapse of judgment? Again lot to unpack here]

Trigun #2.6: Gathering of the Devils

“[Legato’s] eyes were bottomless. I couldn’t read any truth in there.” -Vash

WOLFWOOD!!!

“That’s one well-prepared dead guy” Nightow sir…Don’t

“I’m a priest” Everyone: X to doubt

“Let me guess, your life’s full of nothing but trouble” Yeah, WW, you could say that

Wolfwood: It’s not exactly like that Me: Oh, I know

I also get SUPER nervous about the Eye having confessionals like. What in the blackmail material [Note: They never do end up doing anything with this outside of it being a signifier of Christianity–a smokescreen on Wolfwood’s part, maybe? To seem like a regular priest? Though with the EoM being a more widespread cult in Stampede timeline, I feel like you could still do something with that]

Vash indicating that the orphans shouldn’t steal because WW has no money himself–wouldn’t have snitched if he had?

“I see you hurtin’ and grinnin’ just to bear it.” HHHHHH…calling him out within seconds! Seeing the true nature of another! Flipping that cross timelines!!!

Trigun #2.7: Eye of Invisibility

Honestly obsessed with the design of manga!Jeneora Rock

Can’t tell if that’s supposed to be blood or cremation smoke…both options bad

Update, it’s probably blood

How did I only just now notice he never fixed his arm…he’s LITERALLY about to beat her one-handed

Trigun #2.8: Fifth Moon

Content Warnings: Suicide by fall, gore, anime nudity (Knives has no visible dick), suicidal thoughts

Screams internally

LBR Vash wasn’t just using the pain in his finger

So WW is already dissatisfied with the work he’s doing and having second thoughts, but also convinced he can’t get out–”If I run, I’ll be devoured” [Future note: You give up so easily, Wolfwood]

Meryl smacking the shit out of Vash when he tries to get her to run…gutsy play LMAO

Crazy-eyed, long-haired Knives is 100% on my s2 wishlist NGL

Took a second read to see but uhh yeah “shattered” is a good way to describe that spine

Insert that tumblr post about this somehow still meaning Legato is his favorite here

WW watching all this like “what the actual hell did I walk into” is the only comedy I get

“You’ve hurt so many more than you’ve killed, and compare that to all the destruction you’ve caused…so shouldn’t you point that thing somewhere else?” SHUT up you weird gaslighting man!!!

I MISSED ON A FIRST READ THAT HE SHOT HIS OWN LEGS TO CHANGE THE ANGLE, AY YO??

“Maybe we–I–should have never been born” OOF

“Is this from the Hand of God? Answer me, Vash the Stampede!” Buddy he doesn’t have an answer to that

Trigun: Day In, Day Out

“Mr. John P. Smith (Alias)” Vash…

“He made it through another day with no casualties! Well done!” Lmaoo

Also the fact that he plays with the neighborhood kids…Baby

Trigun: Pilot

Vash encouraging her to keep looking–”I don’t think you’re stupid enough to ignore those on whom your life was built?”--bit of projecting? Especially WRT his feelings on Rem as the foundation of this world?

“How’s it feel, Sheriff? Being at the mercy of a stray mutt?” (Vash) Absolute BANGER

“Vash the STampede. A man whose name means ‘reckless.’” Sure does, damn

#screech reads trigun

[severalspoons]

Long Rambling Trigun Meta Discussion 2

I *hate* the reply function in Tumblr. As far as I’m concerned, it doesn’t function. It doesn’t even open up a findable page so I can respond, and I can’t directly answer the reply. That’s why I reblog.

So, here’s the next best thing:

tiggymalvern

I don't recall anything like that fic you mention from either canon. It's a lovely idea, if only I could imagine Vash and Knives stopping arguing with each other for long enough to do it.

This fic I’m remembering was surprisingly hard to find, and now I’m wondering if it’s from FF.net rather than AO3. Will share once I find it!

The twins argue while doing it, IIRC, and have very different approaches. Luckily for the humans, in this fic the engineer likes the plant and takes care of it well, given how little is actually known about how to do so post-crash. Even so, Knives almost kills the engineer, but Vash stops him and leaves behind a little journal full of advice and encouragement. 

IMO, I feel like this is something Vash would be motivated to do more than Knives:

-- to repair his relationship with Knives

-- because he feels responsible for the people Rem saved

-- because he wants the bulb plants to be safe and happy

(listed in the order I thought of them)

But Knives would see this as slight progress towards Vash seeing things his way, so he’d go with it. What do you think?

tiggymalvern

I've never been entirely clear on the manga ending myself, and I think Nightow left it somewhat ambiguous deliberately. Vash and Knives are fighting, and then the earth forces attack them both, Livia intevenes and Vash and Knives fly off and

six months later we find Vash in hiding with the people who saved him, because Knives convinced them to, and then Knives plants an apple tree to help feed the peopl looking after Vash, and then he vanishes...

I assume he chose not to stay with humans and just went off somewhere, but it's left open

Interesting! Yeah, I got the sense it was supposed to be deliberately ambiguous, too. 

Many people say that Knives died giving his last energy to save Vash, to the point where I thought that was canon. 

No matter what happened with Knives and the tree, I have questions. If Knives planted the tree before dying or disappearing or whatever, I’d want to know where he got the apple seeds, and if providing the energy to make that tree survive on Gunsmoke killed him. If he turned into a tree (which I thought was the canon, but maybe not?), how? I can see why you didn’t interpret Knives as turning into a tree.

All I know for sure is, if Knives were dying, he’d want to do it on his own terms. Ideally in a way that would express his point and make an impression on Vash. I was going to say that creating a tree doesn’t seem like Knives’ style, but then I thought about the apple tree scenes in the anime. However that tree came to be, Vash would most likely associate it with happier times on the ship. Maybe he’d be fucked up enough to see it as a gesture of love. 

Maybe it was the closest thing to a gesture of love someone as manipulative and self-absorbed as Knives could manage...

tiggymalvern  Knives really is a person with no middle ground. When he believed Rem's teachings, he believed them wholeheartedly, that everything would turn out fine and people just needed to be given a chance. When he rejected those teachings and decided it was all just rubbish, he went maximum speed to the other extreme. Reject ALL humans, not just the individuals who had proven that they suck. And reject as in eradicate, not just avoid... 

I love Knives’ all-or-nothing way of being. Maybe because I know and love so many people with a little streak of that. And it’s so believable. Reminds me of a quote I read somewhere about how a misanthrope is a disillusioned idealist.

Knives thinks in utilitarian terms (”the greatest good for the greatest number with the least possible sacrifice”) as a kid for the few short scenes before he turns evil. He also seems to think in terms of groups rather than individuals (”humans,” “spiders,” “butterflies”). It saves him the grief Vash goes through at coming to know and lose so many people, but it also helps him justify a racist ideology. I love that about him, actually. If I were to write a Knives redemption fic, a key arc would be helping him learn to see others as individuals. I have a few paragraphs of something like that written...

Kids definitely need wonder and to see the beauty in the world, but it's also a good idea to mention the possibility of weird strangers offering candy that are best avoided. For these bizarre new non-human children, those warnings would have been extra pertinent, and maybe would have reduced the shock of what came after. Knives is definitely more mature than Vash in those flashbacks. Like you say, he wants to discuss issues with Vash, and Vash just parrots Rem. 

Agree.

I have a theory. Earth, in Trigunverse, seems a lot like our world, only worse.

I’ve seen a lot of people’s sense of wonder, beauty, fun, and curiosity squished. I was the weirdo in preschool, among other four year olds, for being too much like that. Maybe on Trigun Earth, a bleak place to begin with, that’s the norm. (And destroying people’s wonder/curiosity/etc. leads to depression and the ennui of modern life, but that’s another essay).

Some people, like those who run Waldorf schools, overreact by going to the opposite extreme. The worst, most ideologically rigid ones, deliberately wait to teach kids to read so they can explore the world unmediated by words a little longer. (And will even discourage kids who learn to read early, grr). Waldorf philosophy assumes young kids are basically sensing, feeling, and imagining beings, rather than thinking ones. 

I get the sense that Rem is one of these sorts. She was squashed and made to feel worthless for the way she saw the world. Maybe that’s part of the reason she was so depressed and needed Alex’s help. She’s raising the twins the way she wished she had been raised.

That sort of parenting wasn’t appropriate for a plant, of course. But no one had raised independent plants to adulthood before. No one knew what was appropriate. No one knew how to teach them about danger (or how not to). 

Growing up as a neurodivergent person in the Dark Ages, the only kid with allergies and sensory processing problems, etc., I understand all too well how badly things can go when even the most loving parents just don’t know what to do, and can’t find helpful information anywhere. Where helpful information isn’t just hard to find, but it doesn’t exist yet. 

So as critical as I’m being of Rem, I sympathize with her. She really didn’t have much to go on but her own knowledge and experience, and she bravely did the best she could.

Vash isn't thinking for himself yet, but he's a kid, so that's allowable. It does make it harder for Knives, though, who feels he has to be responsible for them both. 

You know, Knives does feel responsible for them both, and I hadn’t thought much about it and about the implications of that. No wonder he was so frustrated and furious. There’s definitely a sense of “something is deeply unfair and wrong” for a child trying to raise not only themselves, but their younger sibling(s).  Perhaps that’s part of the reason I saw Knives as caring about Vash, in his toxic, screwed up way. 

Plant biology is MASSIVELY confusing, and the more you try to piece it together, the more your head hurts LOL. But I think that's almost the point? ...Leaving the readers struggling to figure out the plants is the human perspective.

What do you think about the anime being so much from a human pov, especially considering that the most important characters in it are not?

Wolfwood is the support Vash needs to learn to control his plant powers among other things, the powers that have terrified Vash for so long that he ignored them. But Wolfwood isn't scared of them - or rather, he is, but not scared enough to abandon Vash because of them. He knows all about Vash, he knows all about July and the hole in the moon, he's seen Vash transform into some weird crazy thing with feathers, and Wolfwood still stays. Wolfwood lets Vash know that Vash's mistakes can be forgiven, and Vash is still a worthwhile person despite them. And because Wolfwood believes it, Vash can start to believe it. 

Between how well you put this and the dynamic itself, I’m...blown away and don’t know what to say. 

– “Vash, take care of Knives.” This breaks my heart because so far … he hasn’t. First he follows Knives around. Then abandons him. Then attacks him. I really do think Vash was trying. He followed Knives around for so long while being so angry with him for what he'd done, and yes, part of that was because he didn't want to be alone himself, but part of it was him trying to follow Rem's advice. 

Yeah, true, he did try at first. I undervalued it because by the time the series starts, that was far into the past and Vash probably doesn’t even remember it, but still.

In the manga, Rem specifically says, 'Vash, don't leave Knives alone,' because I think she recognises that Knives is prone to extremes and needs a balance. 

See, that instruction makes so much more sense. And I think the plants would have agreed. (Well, of course they would. They’re a collective consciousness, after all).

Rem probably also knew it’s bad for anyone’s health or sanity to be alone, and an emotionally unstable twin plant even more so. Knives would be in a solitary confinement of his own making.

Vash tried and tried to get Knives to change; he spent so much effort trying to explain why genocide wasn't the answer. But Vash failed, and eventually he recognised that he was always going to fail. So he left Knives, because he needed a life that wasn't that failure. He needed to do something to compensate for Knives. He took upon himself the responsibility of not only protecting the humans from Knives, but protecting the humans from the worst in themselves, which Knives' actions brought to the surface. And that is one hell of a lot to take on, and not a recipe for a happy life.

Yeah, that’s...a heroic life, but not a happy one. In a way, it seems almost as doomed as trying to change Knives. 

#trigun #meta #character analysis #vash the stampede #knives millions #millions knives #rem saverem #baby plants #oversharing #me irl #nicholas d. wolfwood #vash/wolfwood #vash the stampede/nicholas d. wolfwood #vashwood #killing time #fucked up sibling relationships #trigun anime #headcanons

[recentanimenews]

Some Of The Best Anime Scenes Ever Are Only A Few Seconds Long

By the time you get to the end of this sentence, another brand-new anime will have come out. True, it might be another unfinished, hilarious mess like My Sister, My Writer, but you won’t know that until you actually watch it. Before you know it, you’ll be spending your entire free time catching up on new releases instead of doing what’s really important, like re-watching Cowboy Bebop. Why don’t anime series include one short scene that could tell you instantly what the whole show is about in just a few short seconds? Well, surprise--they do, and here are the four best of them.

  *SPOILERS AHEAD*

  4. Eren’s Mother Losing Her Resolve (Attack on Titan)

  The terrifying power of Attack on Titan is that it strips its characters of their dignity. The anime is gory, true, but every death in it is made so much worse because it comes at the hands (or, more commonly, the mouths) of naked, human-eating giants that move like drunk toddlers. This way, the anime can torture its characters with primal, humiliating fear. You see this perfectly in Episode 1.

    That’s when Carla Jaeger is trapped underneath her house while a nightmare-inducing Smiling Titan approaches her. Ordering her son Eren to run and save himself, Carla tells him for the last time that she loves him, accepting her fate because she knew that at least her child was safe. Well... for like a second. She then flashes back to her family life and, through tears and desperately gagging herself with her hand, she whispers: “Don’t leave me…”

    When I got to that scene, I wanted to scream: “MA’AM! THIS WASN’T PART OF THE DEAL!” Carla was supposed to die her quiet, traumatizing death as part of Eren’s standard-issue tragic backstory. With her silent and cowardly (but very human) pleas, though, everything became so much more real. On some level, we know that characters facing death must feel fear, but we don’t like to think about it to preserve the magic of escapism. But this is precisely what Attack on Titan does.

  It doesn’t make bad stuff “cool” for us. It makes us confront every ugly aspect of it. I’m convinced that if Hajime Isayama had directed a Batman movie, he’d have made the Waynes’ last words: “I don’t want to die...” And then they’d crap their pants. Because that’s the true face of tragedy and fear, encapsulated perfectly by Carla’s three words.

  3. Whitebeard Embracing His Foolish “Son” (One Piece)

  The flashy, supersonic fights in One Piece have always been one of the anime’s biggest selling points, like the Luffy vs. Katakuri punch-up. I use it as an example mainly because, whether you read this article when it’s first published or years later, chances are that fight will probably still be going on. But, for all its action, that’s not what One Piece is ultimately about. To find out what that is, we have to look at episode 472.

  The episode takes place during Whitebeard’s attempt to rescue Ace from the Navy. It was an epic arc full of action, excitement, and plot twists, the biggest one being when Whitebeard’s subordinate Squard was tricked into betraying everyone and turned his boss into an entrée at a Brazilian steakhouse.

    After that happened, you sort of expected Whitebeard to literally break Squard in half. But then… he just hugged him. Not only that, he told him that he forgave his foolish “son” and still loved him. The Whitebeard Pirates always had this thing where the captain was called “father” and everyone else were his “sons” but you never thought it was so… literal.

    When you think about it, though, this is what One Piece has been getting at from the get-go: the power of non-biological family. Literally every major character on the show was raised by people they weren’t related to. Luffy and Ace had Dadan. Sanji had Zeff. Nami had Bell-mère and Nojiko, Tony had Dr. Hiriluk, Robin had the archeologists at the Tree of Knowledge, Franky had Tom, etc.

  Still, the message about the importance of family works best with Whitebeard and Squard. See, it’s easy to love your non-biological family members when everyone gets along and, in the case of the Straw Hats, sacrifices their life for you. It’s harder and therefore more powerful when one person unwittingly screws up, but can still know that they’re forgiven and loved. That’s just beautiful. That's One Piece.

  2. The Humanoid Typhoon’s Wounds (Trigun)

  There aren’t many western anime out there. One might almost think that Japan never had a Wild West or cowboys. But that’s just one reason to appreciate Trigun (or, to call it by its proper name: Gun Gun Gun.) The other reason, of course, is the show’s main character, Vash the Stampede, the Humanoid Typhoon, The Sixty Billion Double-Dollar Man, a gunslinger who can level entire towns… without actually killing anyone there. It’s actually nice to have an action character out there who believes in pacifism, even if it comes easy to them on account of being one of the most powerful people on the planet.

  Hey, apropos of nothing, let’s check out a random scene from Episode 13 when Meryl and Milly see Vash getting out of the shower because why not?

    Oh… dear.  That is… that is just unfortunate. I mean, he sorta looks like a Ken doll that was operated on by Sid from Toy Story while he was going through a Cronenberg phase. Even Frankenstein’s monster is recoiling at the sight of Vash’s body, from the gigantic scars to the missing arm and metal literally bolted to his flesh. But the thing is, every wound tells the story about the high price of pacifism.

  Every scar is a reminder of the time when Vash could easily have killed but ended up saving the day with his wits and acting like an idiot. Every mark is a reminder that choosing life will often carry with it a great cost. A cost that Vash paid gladly because, to him, pacifism isn’t just something he believes in when things are easy. Even in the darkest of times, he is going to be himself and stick to his principles. But he doesn’t want to bum everyone out so he ultimately diffuses the situation in a way only he can:

    THAT is Trigun.

1. Tsuyu Befriending Habuko (My Hero Academia)

  I’ve gone on record saying that I think the world of My Hero Academia is horrifying, but I mainly think so because their world is so young. Their society has accepted people with superpowers (sorry, Quirks) only very recently and although over 80% of the global population has a Quirk, it doesn’t mean they eliminated all prejudice. Just look at My Hero Academia - Training of the Dead, the second OVA that introduced the character of schoolgirl Habuko Mongoose, who has a snake head. And people are afraid of her.

    Yeah, she was a bit awkward and she could paralyze you by looking at you, but her awkwardness came from her loneliness caused by social isolation. She was so lonely that she actually started stalking one student, Tsuyu Asui, to be closer to another human. Then one day, while being followed by Habuko, Tsuyu simply turned to Voldermorticia and asked: “Do you want to be friends?”

    That’s all it took to completely change the life of this lonely girl while quickly summarizing what My Hero Academia stands for. Their world is at peace thanks to All Might, whose catchphrase is “Plus Ultra”–“Go Beyond.” This doesn’t just apply to going beyond your physical abilities and punching the villains just a little harder. It’s a philosophy that implores us to do more, to be our best selves especially in our everyday lives. That is precisely what Tsuyu did.

    She did more. She saw past Habuko’s appearance and gave her a chance. If the world of MHA is to survive, it will be thanks to people like Tsuyu, always going that extra step not just as a superhero but also as a civilian. She is the true embodiment of All Might’s words and, as such, the true heart of My Hero Academia. Let’s hear it for the show’s best girl.

  Are there any other scenes that you think sum up your favorite anime? Let us know about them in the comments!

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Cezary writes words on the internet. Follow him on Twitter or check out his two comedy websites.

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