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joyswonderland1108 · 1 year

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Letter

I hesitated to write this post, i did say in another post that i decided to post it later (wow that’s a lot of “post” in the same sentence lol) so i can say that this has been sitting in my drafts since hours ago but i guess i’ll just post it anyways. As you can guess it’s about “Letter”

So as you may know, Jimin brought us a surprise which is a hidden track called “Letter” with JK doing background vocals (The Jikook subunit we never knew we’d get, well close enough i still see it as a subunit i don’t care sue me), thing is, i’ve seen some “theories” going around it about how “It’s a letter to us 🥺” or “It’s a Jikook song” and well.. I don’t agree with either one of those, why? i’ll tell you

Yes despite being a Jikooker i’m not a crazy cultist to come up with theories where i just stop seeing Jimin and JK as two individuals, we don’t do that in this house. So reason why i disagree is because this album is supposed to about Jimin all about himself, about facing himself, about growing out of a toxic past, leaving it behind and taking new fresh steps full of acceptance of who he truly is, he said it himself he didn’t want to have any collab because it wouldn’t make sense for someone else to sing about what HE feels.

Now “Letter” is supposed to come after “Like Crazy” English Version, well not really after it but it’s part of it, and i know that not everyone is smart enough to understand the message, many ignored the purpose of the album completely and the clear messages written ON THE ALBUM to interpret it but let me just rewrite it (i know damn well the homophobes will turn a blind eye to this) On Jimin’s album this is what’s written

Key sentence : The reflection of myself in an unfamiliar appearance. Despite people freaking out about “OMG i thought they were going to kiss” “It’s a break up song and the girl is supposed to be his gf/ex-gf”

(Okay i know i’m now talking about Like Crazy while the initial post said i was going to talk about Letter but trust the process)

While Jimin did say that Like Crazy was based on the movie, it also wasn’t LITERALLY based on it, there’s this general idea, a story each can relate to it their own way and that’s what Jimin did, In an interview this was his reply

Key word : Ambiguous.

Jimin isn’t making an OST for the movie so why would anyone think he’s taking the literal story for his song? Going back to what he said about his reflection and the girl that made people go crazy without doing the minimum effort to understand, she basically represents Jimin himself, they walk towards each other but never collide because they are reflections

And to give you more insight about this, this is basically coming from “The Four Carl Jung Archetypes”. Carl Jung identified four main archetypes: the persona, the shadow, the anima or animus and the self. These are a result of collective, shared ancestral memories that may persist in art, literature and religion but aren’t obvious to the eye. These recurring themes help us understand the Jungian archetypes.These Jungian archetypes represent a journey from an unconscious state to individuation: a merging of the conscious and the unconscious.

What people also failed to notice is the very clear queer-code in the MV, from the colors, little details, clothings, etc.. As someone said on Twitter “This feels exactly like how my gay ass feels when i’m in a bar surrounded by straight people”. The outfit :

Which has Robet Michael Mapplethorpe in it

Now this one is my very own interpretation so take it with a grain of salt but this

Personally to me, him sitting between a woman and a man kissing says a lot to me. It’s the fact that he’s in the middle.. I’m not going to further explain those who get it get it, those who don’t don’t. But that’s my own personal interpretation i’m just slipping it in here.

Now that this is out of the way let’s go back to “Letter” this whole talk about “Like Crazy” is mainly because to me Letter is related to it since very obviously both tracks are one technically speaking. So while people think it’s a letter to Army but i’m over here like “If it’s a letter to Army, why is it hidden? Why would they make it so that it’s only accessible to people who have the physical album? I thought the purpose of an Army dedicated song was for it to be OFFICIALLY out for all Army to listen to” because yes despite that being uploaded online by other Army but if we all decided to be petty and selfish af, this won’t see the light of the day on the internet and that defies the whole purpose of a song for Army.

As i said above this album is about himself, he’s talking about his own struggles so saying that this is an Army song as if Army are a struggle too is a bit.. And that also on his very first solo album where he’s supposed to focus on sharing a message about himself. When Hobi decided to dedicate a song to Army he didn’t put it in JITB it was a separate single, Joon didn’t have no Army dedicated song in Indigo either because again their solo Albums are about themselves, it’s a journey to share with us their individuality and their own colors. Jin didn’t have much of a choice he had to leave for MS there wasn’t enough time for an album or maybe he himself didn’t really feel the need to make an album and his main focus was to make a song for Army which he did and gifted us Astronaut. (GOD I MISS JIN)

The lyrics too, i as Army and as Jimin’s FAN, it didn’t feel directed to me. “Now I'll be the one to hold you, When you want to cry, So you won't trip and fall” or even “Because we don't know what days await us, Though it's scary, though we're afraid, Never forget that we're together” those feel like something related to himself as well, let’s also not forget that technically speaking it’s related to “Like Crazy” too which i explained above, why would anything Army related be scary? Why would we be afraid? What is there to be afraid of? Also how will Jimin hold us when we want to cry?

I also said that i disagree on the fact that it’s a “Jikook song” i don’t know how to explain precisely but some people seem to interpret it as THEIR song whereas even if Jimin is actually singing about his relationship with JK it’s still about his OWN feelings, his OWN promises, his OWN confession, despite JK doing the background vocals in which they harmonized so very beautifully kudos to them, i still think it’s all about Jimin, yes there might’ve been a reason why he chose JK himself for that or maybe they chose that together because really it could’ve been anyone and JK could’ve done the background vocal to any other song in the album yet it was on this one. He really did a lot of effort to open up to us so i really hope people see it as his pov on everything.

I made a post relating the song to There for You from GCFT and yes quite honestly to me it feels like a response to “I’ll be there for you but you gotta be there for me too” and yet again it still goes back to the same thing, it is Jimin’s OWN reply. I also noticed how Army songs didn’t have other members in them (well i mean Army songs in this solo era) so again why would this be an Army song if JK was in it? I don’t even know if all of this makes a lot of sense, can’t say i’m the best with words but i tried to convey how i see it.

Oh and let us be reminded that this was his reaction to knowing we found out about and and so cheesily saying that he won't tell us about it for now lol

Boy what are you all giggly and shy for?

🧐

(Tagging this under Jikook because i don’t trust the rest of the fandom that much)

#jikook #Kookmin #minkook #mingukkie #park jimin you are so precious #jungkook i love you for the spoilers and thank you for beautifully harmonizing with boo

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tendercoretroglodyke · 3 years

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... I’m interested in legitimately gay Reese (I assume one piece of evidence is “look at what they’re doing and tell me you’re not gay”)

okay this is like 2 days late but this is why reese malcolminthemiddle is legitimately gay:

(side note: did anyone need a queer media thesis paper or something... I am willing to share lmao)

so none of this is like... rock solid evidence or anything but I need to believe at least one main character of a show is gay and/or trans to maintain interest and reese is the most plausible gay character. also it’s early 2000′s so he just gets a lot of vaguely homophobic jokes lmao

first of all, yes, the biggest piece of evidence he’s gay is those lines from that episode I quoted the other day--thinking malcolm is gay, he tries to show his support by giving him a gay porno: “’Naught Pool Boys 3!’ I watched 10 or 12 of these, and this one seems to have the most stuff you guys like.” and when malcolm says he isn’t gay, reese responds “Malcolm. Check out what those guys are doing in that movie, and THEN tell me you’re not gay.”-- so, 1) reese sat down and watched like a dozen gay porn movies to ““find a good one for his gay brother”” and 2) he thinks malcolm would reconsider his heterosexuality if he watched what was in that movie, implying that HE reconsidered his sexuality after watching that movie, or at the very least found it hot

in the same episode, the character tricking malcolm into thinking reese is gay lists the following as evidence: he obsesses over his hair and his looks, loves his gourmet cooking, has a bunch of magazines covered in comically muscular men, and that he’s angry and acts like a jerk because he’s “dealing with something weird and confusing.” now obviously, the obsession with hair/looks can be chalked up to the fact that he’s a teenage boy, and there’s nothing inherently gay about enjoying cooking. the dozen magazines of muscle-bound men could certainly be taken as gay evidence, though, and it IS established in the show that his entire bully persona is his way of masking his inner feelings and insecurities. there’s literally a whole episode where he & malcolm realize they have no friends because they act like little shits to push people away because they’re afraid of rejection and/or abandonment from their peers. they ostracize themselves before they can be ostracized by the other students at school. I could probably write a whole other essay on reese’s psyche tbqh lmao there’s a shocking amount there!!

of the brothers who are actually old enough to be attracted to girls (reese, malcolm, and francis), he shows the least interest. now bear with me here. you might be thinking, “well, yeah, it’s malcolm’s show, we’re not gonna see things from other people’s perspective!” but that is actually surprisingly untrue, the show is very much equally shown from each family members’ perspectives. starting about s2, when malcolm is in early middle school, he starts getting crushes on girls and pursuing them. francis goes after a few women in the first couple seasons and then marries a woman we see a lot throughout the show.

in the roughly... 130?? episodes I have watched so far, nearly all of reese’s “interest” in girls involve either: competition with malcolm, genuinely just liking her as a friend, or some completely ulterior motive. the only exception to this I can think of is in the early seasons where he has a crush on a cheerleader and tries to get on her good side by joining the cheerleading squad, which the writers clearly set up as a way to make gay jokes about reese. let me give you a few examples of his relationships with girls

the first relationship we see him in is with a “stupid girl” that malcolm tried (and failed) to date, and the main reason they get together is that they think on the same wavelength and genuinely seem to enjoy hanging out. they take breaks from their bro chats to make out every once in a while. eventually he gets her to break up with him because he doesn’t want to go to the school dance with her (he doesn’t want to go at all). years later, he’s dating some girl we meet for like 5 minutes, before he goes to confess to her that she’s the first girl he’s ever loved. she then breaks up with him. he’s sad, but taking it fairly well. he’s about to leave when he sees malcolm hiding under the bed, and learns that he stole his girlfriend. he then runs away to join the army. he was clearly MUCH more upset that his brother stole his girlfriend than he was that his girlfriend broke up with him. there are many more instances of him and malcolm competing for a girl’s affections, and he seems mostly motivated by the competition itself.

in addition to “stupid girl,” he also manufactures an “attraction” to his female army buddy in the last season. the premise of this episode is that his old army buddy (a girl he play-wrestles with and insults like he would his own brothers) comes to visit him, and malcolm convinces reese that she’s attracted to him, and that reese’s nervousness at learning that fact is proof he’s in love with her. there’s a misunderstanding where reese asks her if she has certain “feelings” and she says she does, but what she ACTUALLY means is that she has a crush on reese’s MOM. she’s a lesbian. reese later propositions her (saying he’s saved his virginity for this--he’s probably about 18 here), and when she says omg no im gay, he is HUGELY relieved they can go back to being friends. CLASSIC mlm/wlw friendship moment.

there’s an episode where these cute girls pick up reese (& nerds) to kiss in front of their boyfriends to make them jealous. reese is all for it, and when malcolm argues that it’s not worth his dignity and the beating he’ll get from the girl’s boyfriend, reese counters that that’s WHY he wants to do this--he’s completely invisible at school, and thinks getting beaten up for kissing some guy’s girlfriend will at least make him known around school. at no point does he indicate he’s actually attracted to this girl, and when it comes time to kiss her, he finds the weakest excuse to run away at the last minute.

im not gonna list all of these but there’s more lmao

the following is a random assortment of one-off gay jokes and out-of-context lines with gay reese implications, often homophobically bc its early 2000′s writing:

says “I’m gay” to a girl to give malcolm a better shot at her

(again in competition with malcolm) tries to flirt with a girl by spraying milk in her face as the punchline to a joke, which is. well. hm. self-sabotaging, to say the least!!

Reese: “Do you think it’s right to totally change who you are and turn your back on EVERYTHING you believe in, just to impress a hot guy??” [his dad gives a long, blank stare, before asking:] “...Burt Reynolds hot, or Sting hot?”

“YEAH I like clouds! I call them sky kittens :)” (I just think that one’s sweet!)

“Look, Christie, here’s the thing. When I first met you, I was just messing around. But we’ve gotten so close that, now... I really like you! I can’t keep this up anymore. I’m not the person you think I am. I’ve been pretending since the day I met you. It’s so hard having to constantly cover my tracks to keep my story straight... and I don’t WANT to anymore! I’m tired of living this lie! I’m done with it. I’m sorry.”

he catfishes some guy to blackmail him, but is implied to continue the flirtation even after the catfishing/blackmail is revealed

reese is, technically, married to a man. this particular plot point is played as a joke and manages to be both racist and homophobic, so I won’t go into it. but I believe he is still married to that man. technically.

reese takes care of a huge box full of caterpillars until they pupate and become beautiful butterflies. I feel like there’s some kind of gay coming out metaphor here somewhere.

I think there are a couple other times where he comments on a guy’s attractiveness but I couldn’t find specific instances.

In conclusion: Reese is a deeply repressed gay kid who was socialized SO thoroughly as an early 2000′s straight boy that, despite his attraction for men and his obvious compulsory heterosexuality, he still cannot admit to himself that he is gay even as he enters adulthood. Furthermore, his subconscious frustration about this fact is turned outward to form the “schoolyard bully” costume he uses to mask his insecurities and keep others from getting too close to him.

Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk. I could be convinced to come back for another talk about how Dewey is trans or about how each and every member of that family is neurodivergent in entirely different ways. Assuming anyone has read this far in the first place!!

#sorry this was so long lmao I legit spent 2 hours on this #I have 2 modes: not doing the thing and overdoing the thing #hey anon if you actually see this I'd appreciate a quick message saying so lmao I'd hate to write all this only for you to miss it #I'll probably rb sometime tomorrow at least #also liz if you're reading this i was GONNA add a bit about francis' gay potential like you mentioned but I ran out of steam so remind me t #i think reese has the most gay potential tho #mitm #malcolm in the middle #anonymous #Anonymous

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sillyfudgemonkeys · 3 years

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silly: everyone's so mean to P4... :((( also silly: i hate P5 specifically with every fiber of my being

Yeah! You got me anon. 030 ~<3 kljfdaklsfdj You know me so well~! =////=

But for reals, it's not like I don't have/give my reasoning for liking one thing and disliking another. I have actually explained why I dislike P5, I'm very up front and have gone into extensive detail so it's not like blind hatred or even misinformation.

The thing with P4 was.... P4 was.....a punching bag....for a long time (and it didn't deserve a lot of it). Just because it was "happier" than other games in the MegaTen franchise (THAT ENTIRE FRANCHISE, not just the Persona side). P5 might be getting shit for maybe not going as far as it could've gone, but it's not the fandom punching bag like P4. At least for the sole reason of it's main color being YELLOW. "Persona sucks because it's not as dark as Megaten!" "No it's not Persona it's just P4! P4 is to blame for people thinking we aren't dark!" "Modern Persona (at the time P3/4) sucks because it's not dark!" "No it's just P4!" "God of course P4 has a dancing game, cause it's the silliest and not dark game of the entire franchise >_>" "Well thank god P5 looks like it's going to be much darker than P4! Hate how light and cheery P4 is! >.>"

Like the issue, at least back in the day, dark=better/mature/serious, light hearted=worse/immature/silly

That's just how the MegaTen fandom is, or was. There's a reason why there's a joke about the fandom being "how many Persona fans does it take to screw in a lightbulb? One, but in the mean time MegaTen fans will be complaining about how it isn't dark enough." Ironically they forget all the dark moments P4 had, and all the silly moments other games had.

Yes P4 has issues.....but there's a lot that either was because of the anime, or misinformation (at least with P5 everyone knows it's anime is crap and doesn't have to deal with it the same way P4 does):

"Yosuke is horribly homophobic!" He's uncomfortable but he's nowhere near as cartoonishly bad as the anime portrays him (also the anime erases his growth). Like the dude isn't perfect, but he's not horrible like the anime made him out to be. DX

"Chie is a physically abusive friend!" The sheer utter character assassination here omg. True she kicked Kanji but....SHE DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS HIM AND HE WAS SNEAKING INTO HER TENT! But no we focus on Yosuke, except she never touches Yosuke (outside of pushing him into the water but YUKIKO DOES IT TOO so.....I guess that extends to Yukiko? No? Oh well....hypocritical >.>). Like she's not Makoto. No I don't think Makoto is meant to be seen as abusive towards her friends, but I think the writing accidentally did that (we only see her ever raise her hand/threaten violence towards her friends, outside of the dungeon setting that is)

Yadda yadda (won't go into Naoto cause I know people be crazy and will still flame others and I don't want to deal with that).

P4 has a few hiccups in logic (mostly why don't they just go to the police right off the bat or why didn't Naoto hide hidden cameras to catch the perp? That being said you could still reason they think the police are useless or will get hurt and maybe Naoto's it was 2008 and maybe that wasn't something she could do at the time and place but I dunno enough about Japan's 2008 hidden/security camera market to really see if it's a cultural/time thing....or if Naoto is an idiot sometimes). But not nearly as bad as P5's logical inconsistencies *gestures to my blog*

I'm not saying that jumping into a TV is logical, I mean P4 does a good job setting up it's magical setting and the rules behind it so it doesn't break in on itself. P5 doesn't. P4's characters and narrative don't break in on itself. P5 does.

Also while I hate P5 with every fiber of my being, I say leave the poor fans alone. If they aren't harming anyone it's whatever. That being said I can still bitch about it without dragging the fans into it (by bitching on my blog or in the correct space, not like on someone's P5 fanart).

With P4, I know it's not perfect, but I still am reeling over old takes I've seen since around 2012. If there's been new ones, that flew past me. I haven't been super involved with the P4 fandom since 2014 due to how toxic it got (so if I've missed some then I'd love to hear them cause I was getting tired of the same old bs takes that kept happening every month). And I'm just addressing the old stuff. It also really sucks cause P4.....kinda saved Atlus. If not for it, we wouldn't have gotten more.....any games from them because they were in dire straights. It it stinks that while it was popular, it was getting shit on while it was saving that company (and still had good quality spinoff titles! can't say that about P5 era spinoffs! 8U)

Tho that being said, I do think P5 does get some unfair shit, partially cause of the Nintendo/Smash community (or really that's the only thing that pops into my head). "Fans of a character of a game they haven't played" bs or whatever. Like I do think if you wanna discuss the finer details of P5 you should probs play it, but hey if you just think Joker is cool then more power to you. Or people that have P5 icons are given shit for being "oh it's a Persona fan you don't get to have an opinion!" Like????? I don't like that. As much as I give P5 shit, I want it to stay within the issues of the game not....whatever vibe those jerks are throwing out outside the game. >.>

#silly asks #silly answers #can't tell if the ask was made in good jest but I'm choosing to read it as that djflskfj;afj #P3 movies has it's own issues in relation to it's game #but it handles it's content A LOT BETTER than P4 #they at least did their homework #rip to the p5 anime fans tho u_u #daybreakers is still the best p5 entry tho #p5 salt #p4 salt #well it's more p4 fandom salt #'p4 didn't deserve a lot of it' was the whole bs darker=better thing XU

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misterbitches · 3 years

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wbl has mitigating circumstances that make sense wITHIN the story. non consensuality isn’t ok but there’s a foundation we see which, yes, is majorly failed in other tv shows. there are other ways to show whattever it is they feel like it (i watched the end of ep 2, im just too fuckin depressed rn to even think) but it’s intersting the cruelty exists not in A vacuum but the world with WBL creates where we can see that stark difference. something many BLs and shows in gen like kdramas or teen or new adult (essentially every youthfoul show cos exploitation and creator not caring) understand. TT is a prime example of how it just doesn’t make sense these types of relationships unless there’s a solid enough foundation and at least a mild understanding of the inappropriateness.

right now, the toxicity is born out of like actual conflict. wer i in in this situation, would i do any of that? no. in fact i’d beat anyone’s ass for ever manhandling me that way. i want to itereate here emphasis none of this behavior is ok. since it is a tv show, they have more control and could ostensibly have not written that. however, it’s okay for a show to flub that message, make us uncomfortable, or even truly fuck up the way we think it’s fucked up. i do NOT advise this to be a plan. HOWEVER: PEOPLE DO MAKE MISTAKES. the reddest flag of all is: ARE THEY WILLING TO CHANGE? if they are not, they do NOT deserve to be together.

which mbrings me here. theyre giving us a reason why.

the program gives itself the space and the foreground for it to be a story that isnt fuocused on how much they fuck and fight. ergo these behaviours cannot be repeated bc theyre in this instance. so many viewers of everything say people expect media to be perfect. no. we dont. it’s impossible and we live in a trash disgusting racist capitaist garbage hellfire. what you mean is you want to see people make mistakes but ultimately transgress them and sometimes people just do shit we wouldn’t forgive, or is messed up, or the writers need to make DAMN FUCKING SURE is clear.

but unlike most shows esp targeted for young teens both het and BL, thte consequences of love or what love means to young people is so skewed and poorly done because it’s by people who AREN’T that age, don’t know howhumans work, shit like that. i mean u can just tell by the acting even as sam is really goof and most experienced but has a real whole life outside of this persona, a girlfriend, goals of acting probably; showing what it’s like to be human in a way but not a projection of human fantasy through rape culture.

we like to see dysfunction for two reasons: as a way to get out of it or as a redemption arc

but for people who are making cheap shows for kids who don’t need to think about it it’s like: shitty execution, gross love, and no context for why they should even CONTINUE to stay together on top of the harm

wbl is far from perfect like any other show but it’s wil what happens when intentions are clear when you show them and so it’s easier for all of us to process. not to mention they built this story through blocks, the way one is supposed to, the relationship of the two of them when they hadn’t been intimate is very different from now

GSD has to tell the truth, SY has to grow up, rich ppl suck. but it’s a good ride

as an aside is sam lin’s gf cute i hope so but like in a fun way idc abt model bitches it’s so obvious when men do that lmaoooooo but omg! i hope hes happy and also he and mr yu stay friends fro a long time!

oh and i wanna add that GSD’s life revolving around his love for shi yu is actually untrue. it’s a projectiona nd i think the illusion of that projection is brokena nd that’s a good thing. the show sets up an ensemble cast we vibe with, want to see, appreciate, and that means GSD has friends and loves. his life revolves aruond him and the way he sees the romance but he would have never let his mom go to the US by himself and i really hope the show explores why it is IMPERATIVE for him to find his own personhood and not just take care of others.

his mom would want him to love every bit of his life. all consuming love is so beautiful but it’s only beautiful when you realize you have to survive to love someone so well. and when you survive and understand yourself, your loved ones feel it. they’re very reliable as a group friends and a people and shi de is and will always be a human outside of yu. he has to understand that. it was nice to see his anger at being played too cos it’s like yea that’s fucking disgusting and it hurts and kills you

i’m going to continue to assess the volatility within the story and its progression as much as i can if i can handle being online. this show really exceeds a lot of expectations and mostly i think i forget....it’s actually fun. i was so happy to see the way the dad came into the room in the morning bc i think that was so sweet and hopefully is an indicator of why he said to do what he did. unfortunately homophobic or not: he fucked up. majorly. as a parent, a confideant, a loved one. you do not do that. i am sorry. but they can bounce back. but that’s a lot of pain, ok?

also i hate rich ppl did i mention that

oh one more thing idk if they had sex but dramas love to do the whole drunk ppl fucking thing and it’s fucking disgusting and will always be :)

#we best love #advice to

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seerofmike · 4 years

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i feel like a huge portion of kpop fans are gay fetishists attracted to the idea of quote unquote feminine men and thats why theres so much bullshit

YES okay. okay let me rant for a minute. let me preface this by saying i am NOT a kpop shipper at ALL. this is going to be long so i’ll put it under a’ ‘read more’ because i’ve been holding it in for TWO FUCKING YEARS BABY!

being mlm in boygroup kpop fandom is literally so exhausting. 99% of the people who ship real life human men from boygroups are fetishists and i will tell u why

obviously we all know of a ship in a fandom where the characters' personalities are twisted to fit the heteronormative view of "top" and "bottom" --one character is hypermasculine (top) and the other one is feminine (bottom). there are typical traits associated with both. the ‘top’ is scary or mean or angry or serious while the ‘bottom’ is emotional or bubbly or shy. while this is egregious, at least its fictional characters. their personalities can be simplified or exaggerated and it doesnt cause any real life harm.

im going to define what i think of as a fetishist: a non-mlm person who overly sexualizes gay men/men they think are gay/gay ships, and forces them into heteronormative roles for their own pleasure. its not even limited to cishet women. plenty of non-mlm lgbt people do this too and its like disheartening. so anyways

enter the kpop fandom

i may be incredibly biased here because one of the most affected members [of bts] is my favorite kpop boy, but oh god is the ‘personality change/simplification’ thing AWFUL here. i do not go out of my way to find fanart or see fanfic threads, but being in the bts fandom, u will inevitably see it and i REALLY wish i didnt

so anyways. my favorite boy ever is hoseok. he is sweet and hardworking and very passionate about dance and he can be serious when needed, but ultimately he tries to be very lighthearted and will consistently laugh or make jokes or do something funny when the other members feel uncomfortable or awkward (mostly during english-speaking interviews). he kisses the members on the cheek a lot/hugs them a lot/cuddles them a lot [this is important for later okay]

of course, theres a lot more to him because he is a multi-faceted real life human being, and i don’t know him personally, but that’s a general idea of what he’s like, okay?

SHIPPERS will have you think differently. some video got popular on youtube ""proving"" that hoseok is a sadist (which is just clips of him jokingly playfighting with the younger members), and the video depicts him as secretly mean and serious, and shippers will use that to say "hoseok is a total top!" and then most fanart or imagines or fanfic threads you see are top!hoseok, using this imagined 'hoseok is a sadistic dom' narrative to fuel their fiction, because SOMEONE has to be the top, so they twist him into this hypermasculine mean person (and probably feminize the 'bottom' of their ship but more on that later)

EXCEPT it is not just fiction. this narrative bleeds into REAL LIFE. you have new armys who dont know anything about the shipping scene, and yet somehow the narrative of hoseok being a secretly mean, sadistic person has already made its way into them. in real life, hoseok likes rainbows and wearing nail stickers and putting glitter in his hair. yet people in the fandom will say shit like "hoseok hates femininity" "hoseok would never wear [thing] because he's a dom"

sometimes on twitter you have ppl like me who say uh actually you guys are really weird and this is fetishy and in real life hoseok is very nice and not sadistic at all, you will UNDOUBTEDLY get comments like "omg hoseok isnt cute/nice when will yall learn he’s secretly like [x] and [x]". you could post a video of hoseok with a puppy titled "wow cute" and u will get like 2 clowns in ur comments going 'hoseok isnt CUTE hes a sadist’ . i wish i was joking but i am not. they will do this for EVERY action hoseok does. he cannot blink without people twisting it into a sexual thing

[also, side note: its funny that, since hoseok is one of the least popular members and therefore one of the least shipped members, he is often the odd man out among pairings, and is assigned 'the straight one' by default, and 9 times out of 10 people who assign him 'the straight one' do all this 'dom daddy hoseok' shit.

which just goes to show that this is indeed a matter of heteronormativity.]

so anyways arguably the most popular ship with hoseok is with yoongi, sope. this absolutely happens to other ships probably but im just using them as an example because i see it the most, being a hobi stan

yoongi is very calm and thoughtful and kind and sometimes appears to be cold/having a bad attitude but its just because of the way he speaks, which is very bluntly. again hes a multi faceted real human and i do not know him personally but thats generally what hes like.

god the fandom. treats him SO BAD. so horribly. he's shorter than hoseok. he's shorter than hoseok and people will exaggerate that literal 1 inch height difference so bad and people will turn his whole personality into shy and blushy and In Love With Hoseok, so in love with hoseok that ‘he gets sad’ when hoseok doesn’t kiss him/hug him/or whatever and IT BLEEDS INTO REAL LIFE.

ANY time hoseok or yoongi do ANYTHING together at ALL, people will ALWAYS push the narrative that hoseok, being the mean sadist he is, is 'hurting' yoongi for not returning his undying love or whatever. hoseok did a vlive where he made bracelets for all the members and he considered putting a cat charm on yoongi's but ultimately decided not to because he was having difficulty and oh my GOD sope stans twisted it into 'hoseok HATES yoongi, yoongi would have been so happy, he would have worn that all the time, hoseok isnt affectionate he hates being close with other people after all :(' which is LITERALLY not true because hoseok gives all his homies good night kisses but okay! whatever fits your narrative!

PEOPLE ACTUALLY HATE HOSEOK BECAUSE OF THIS. BECAUSE OF A SHIP. BECAUSE OF THE MANUFACTURED NARRATIVE PUSHED ONTO HIM BY FETISHISTS SO HE COULD FIT INTO THEIR HETERONORMATIVE ‘TOP’ ROLE. not to be all wahh wahh hoseok is one of the least popular members BUT THIS IS LITERALLY A CONTRIBUTING FACTOR.

everyone """headcanons""" hoseok to be a top so they will make him a MEAN HYPERMASCULINE person. everyone """headcanons""" yoongi as a bottom so they will make him a SOFT UWU HYPERFEMININE person. shippers are literally pigeonholing the two of them into fujoshi-esque roles for jack-off material.

anyways this all boils down to: gay fetishists will do anything, ANYTHING, to twist characters or real life fucking people to fit their heteronormative view of top and bottom. top=mean and masculine, bottom=soft and feminine. hoseok is a real life human being. yoongi is a real life human being. they both have real life human personalities, and yet shippers twist their personalities into the opposite to fit their narrative, to the point where nonshippers will genuinely view the two of them as something theyre not.

you have tons of armys that theorize that hoseok's happiness is just a mask he puts on to hide a cruel nature. on twitter. on youtube. in fanart and fanfiction. you have tons of armys that truly believe that, despite literally all the evidence, believe he hates being cute, he hates being happy, he hates the members, and hes secretly a dom daddy fuckboy who wants to bend yoongi over a table. hes a real life human being and fetishists doing their fetish thing has real life consequences.

the same is true for bottom!hoseok stans: they overexaggerate his more cutesy personality traits and he does have a 'feminine' figure i.e. he has a rly small waist but they will overexaggerate that as well and give him huge hips and its disgusting but dom!hoseok is far more frequent with far more devastating consequences so i used that as an example but they’re both bad.

people who """"headcanon"""" [like actually headcanon/firmly believe and not just joking or lighthearted] that members are gay will force these types of roles onto the members. if someone genuinely believes that like, yoongi is gay/bi/whatever, and then try to force this subby soft uwu persona onto him, they have no respect for gay people. they dont. gay people are simply objects for their fantasies. their view of gay people is so one-dimensional and so driven by fetishists’ ideas that its actually disheartening.

and god bitches will deadass be homophobic yet still ship real ass human idols. not just for bts specifically but all boygroup fandoms. sometimes when you search up an idol's name, [idol] gay will be trending--whether it be because of people saying "im gay for him" or whatever, and a LOT of cishet people will try 'clearing' the searches because being gay is bad or something. people normally ‘clear’ the searches if something like [idol fat] or [idol ugly] are trending, which im telling you so you know the context that people only clear the searches when bad things are happening.

[never forget that time 'jungkook gay' was trending and bitches were like "lets clear the searches!" but their pinned tweet said some shit like "sub jungkook x dom jimin coffee shop smut au thread 🌈". bitches also be like i cant be homophobic i ship taekook]

and hoseok and yoongi arent the only ones affected ! we could get into why namjoon and jin (another popular ship) are often assigned 'dad' and 'mom' respectively, or the fact that gay fetishists not only twist members' personalities to fit their ship narrative, but will also force tropes onto them i.e. taehyung/jungkook shippers who will literally demonize jimin and call him a slut or say that he's trying to 'get in the way of' of taekook or 'steal' taehyung/jungkook but thats a whole DIFFERENT rant baby! racism/asian fetishism is also definitely a present factor in all of this but this focus was primarily on gay fetishism and heteronormativity.

oh my god i could also get into the severe transphobia/trans fetishism in this fandom too but this post is already long enough as it is

tl dr: gay fetishists will fetishize real life people and it has actual real life effects and we should ban straight women from shipping mlm

#nobody is going to read this but i just needed to let it out man #fucking hate bts stans #fucking hate kpoppies #fuck u if ur not mlm like actually

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lucidpantone · 4 years

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So everything is magically solve and Kato super horrible and strict parents are now cool ahahahahahaha omg this show makes no sense

similar anon: Hook that never reels is the perfect way to describe this mess. But like, it’s the last ep (Christ I hope it’s the last ep) and there have been so few light, fun moments throughout this whole misery fest this would have been the perfect opportunity to lighten the load of the season a little at the end. They just can’t do anything right its such poor writing I know we keep banging on about it but it’s so frustrating and I can’t understand the logic with this season at all. Kato has been moody and mopey and miserable so so often. Did they really even enjoy writing all this moping about?

similar anon: You known what is another horrible thing about this season? We always know what's gonna happen next is so predictable and Skam is the contrary even if you already know the OG plot you don't really know what's gonna happen next....this is not Skam

similar anon: My initial reaction to ur theory about a potential cut clip: "that'd be another idiotic move! that clip would add a layer to Kato" But then I remembered. It's Wtfock. They would have made sure to do the most damage with the least amount of care for their audience. A scene like that in incapable hands? No thx. But if they are in a cutting mood, they should go ahead and cut the rest of s4, issue an apology (yh, right) and fill the rest of the slots w bts footage/ bloopers of the show.

similar anon: I find so funny how lose yourself, going through thinking you got raped, struggling with your sexuality and a homophobic bash is on the same level as not getting into a dance competition, she's the racist and the naive person so the ploblems she got for that doesn't count and all the consequences of her actions are gonna be justify because she hurts herself or autistic which annoys me more because those two things are not for that, you can't play with those for drama or justification of stupid shit and clearly are not even going to get properly representative.

Thoughts after the cut

I think we can all agree that s4 was a slew of narrative plot mistakes after another. Firstly, THIS IS SKAM. Why is the concept of Skam so hard to understand for some remakes they get so caught up on the drama they can’t just focus on one/two decent topic(s) and evolve it properly. Or you could have Kato be an influencer and self harming but you needed to get to that point pretty quick so we could see 6/7 weeks of her presenting herself as this super fake influencer persona online and behind closed doors being monitored constantly by her parents due to her self harm issue. You dont introduce self harm in like ep8 and then try to build a last minute relapse plot like wtf. Even Lola we knew from jump that lola had addiction issues and we spent 10 weeks unpacking that. Also, why did wtfock cut the parents scenes? once again this makes no sense because it is SKAM (remember Jana and her mom s1). We need to see Kato being micro-managed to then link her frustrations as to why she feels the way she does. We need to see her pov to make us understand her actions. This season was so predictable but in the worse way and lets also remember that the season was meant to end with the dance competition and she probably would have won the only reason we got the ankle thing was because of corona. So it would have made an already predictable season more predictable even tho personally at that point I would have preferred the dance competition because we spend so much damn time on it may as well have resolved it. IDK I cant rant anymore about the writing this season aside from the simple THIS IS SKAM......please remakes remember that fact.

#lucidpantone anons #Remakes need to remember this is SKAM why is that so hard to understand

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creepygamerpasta · 5 years

Text

My Defense of Dear Evan Hansen

Okay, disclaimer: I wasn’t really into Dear Evan Hansen, so I don’t know the musical itself all too well (except of course, like everyone, “Sincerely, Me”). I recently read the novel of it (which was written by the creators, so I think the only difference is the fact that the prose doesn’t rhyme). I’m not a “day-one, die-hard fan,” and I do not have an obsession with it. That being said, I enjoyed the novel a lot. It’s not usually a genre I read, but it certainly piqued my interest for YA mental health novels.

Why, then, do people hate it?

I’ve looked online for this answer, and I’ve been able to find some recurring arguments, which are quite valid even if you don’t agree. (Not everyone has to like the same things, I know.) So, here are my responses and counter-arguments. (Note, contains spoilers, and I won’t necessarily outright disagree with everything.)

1. The fanbase is annoying, toxic, etc.

This is probably the easiest to get out of the way. Yes, there will always be people within a fanbase whose entire lives revolve around their fandom. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing; who can fault you for being passionate about something? But it’s when that passion turns into hate or putting someone else’s tastes or general completely down because that person doesn’t like exactly what the fan likes when people get really angry. I’ll use an unrelated scenario to DEH as an example:

Person A: Do you like Taylor Swift?

Me: Eh, I’m not really into her music. I’m more into metal and stuff.

Person A: Oh, okay, cool. :)

Person B: OMG WTF stop being a HATER. Metal SUCKS. You’re just JEALOUS that she has TALENT.

...See? This is the same sort of reactions that people get, not just from DEH fans but from all sorts of fans. (I’ve gotten both of these exact reactions from various fans of different singers, actors, celebrities, movies, TV shows, etc.)

2. The musical is not that great, as in the scores and stuff.

I don’t see why this particularly angers people. I see this more as an evolution of the types of music in musicals. Maybe there’s something I’m missing here, but musicals exist for people to want to see them. And if the target audience is the younger generation, then it does not make sense to use music that most of them A) won’t like and B) won’t understand. I mean, Hamilton is known for its use of rap, (dare I say) “nontraditional” music in the theatre world. And people like it.

Which brings me to the next point...

3. Young people (who obviously cannot have appreciation for true theatre) will expect musicals like Hamilton and Dear Evan Hansen to become the norm and for there to be a “big” musical every year.

...okay? So? Look, if people want to go to a musical, then they’ll go. If they want to go to another musical, then they’ll go to that one. It’s not rocket science. And as for this sometimes-unspoken assumption that young people can’t understand/appreciate theatre... Last time I checked, there were still theatre kids in schools across the country, so at least some people can.

And now, we go to the part of the defense where I rely more on the novel.

4. The main character (Evan) is neither compelling nor a good person, and thus, should not be the main character (and, by extension, the entire musical should not exist).

In the book, it is made very clear that Evan is not a perfect character. He’s a human being and has flaws just like everyone. His whole “pretending to be Connor’s friend thing” is less a manipulative move and more of “wrong place, wrong time, and I don’t know how to explain.” Though he’s supposed to be relatable, you are not expected to like him. Other characters question his motives for The Connor Project and his relationship to Connor, but with the first person, inner-thoughts, deepest-darkest-secrets style that the book has, it is very clear that Evan is (in his complex way) trying to help the Murphys with their loss. He does get a bit carried away, probably without realizing it, but even though he did not mean to hurt them, the guilt of his lies eats away at him the entire book.

Evan admits to lying, in person at the Murhpys. He knows that even though his longtime crush and now girlfriend (he even describes her as his soulmate and wants to marry her) will hate him, not to mention her parents, he cannot keep lying to them.

I think one of the problems with DEH specific to this problem is the hype about Evan himself. As the audience, we want to paint Evan as a hero. Descriptions put him in that light. He does overcome a lot through the novel and goes through quite a bit of change, but he is not the flawless hero (or the one-flaw antihero) people want him to be. He is a human being, and I think fans and haters forget this or overlook this, despite it being such an important part of the novel/musical.

5. DEH makes fun of mental illness and doesn’t take it seriously. It falsely portrays people with depression, anxiety, suicidal tendencies, etc.

This grinds a lot of my gears. Mental illnesses are different for everyone. Is there some assumption people have that I’m not aware of? The assumption that people actually think that everyone who has anxiety or is suicidal will act exactly like Evan and Connor? It might not match up with every individual’s experience/struggle with a mental illness, but that’s kind of one of the themes of DEH: that people have different lives, different struggles, different baggage, and different ways of coping, healthy or unhealthy. Everyone has a different story, and no one should be left to deal while feeling alone. Pay attention to those around you.

The lighter-hearted music seems to also make people perceive DEH to be making fun of/not taking mental health seriously. Which is ridiculous. There are some serious songs in that soundtrack, and the upbeat “Sincerely, Me” is supposed to be from fake personas. Connor’s persona in that song is supposed to be feeling better as days go by with the help of his “friend” Evan. So, yes, it makes sense that would be cheerful because it is not from the perspective of the real Connor. If it were, the song would probably be a lot darker.

6. The musical is homophobic and makes fun of the LGBT+ community.

If you were to walk into an elementary, middle, or high school right now and overhear every conversation, I gaurantee you, gaurantee you, that some students would be using “gay” as some sort of put-down or otherwise make fun of LGBT+ people. That doesn’t mean it’s right or acceptable, but having two high school guys (or really one, seeing as how Evan does not go along with the joke) make remarks about two (supposedly) close guys being gay is not something new. This complaint probably mainly comes from the line in “Sincerely, Me” in which Connor’s and Evan’s personas deny being close for anything other than friendship. And honestly? As a member of the LGBT+ community, this confusion comes up a lot. Whether you are out or not, closeness between friends is often interpreted as a romantic or sexual relationship, which of course is not the case.

Last time I checked, there wasn’t anything hateful toward the LGBT+ community. Jared’s jokes, while horribly sexual and inappropriate, were just immature. His jokes are essentially the high school equivalent of “That’s what she said.” I mean, who doesn’t know someone like that in their life? If I’m wrong, feel free to correct me.

Oh, and also? It is revealed in the novel that Connor did in fact have a relationship with a guy, Miguel.

7. People talk about the relatability of the musical without actually relating.

Okay, yes, annoying, but I don’t see why people should immediately fault this. You do not know the experiences or thoughts of people online and on social media, but this means that you can’t judge whether or not they do relate to something. The first thing that comes to mind with the word “relatable” when it comes to this musical would, of course, be mental health. Since the most notable characters both struggle with mental illnesses, it makes sense that you would expect the people who relate to this musical to also struggle with mental illness(es). But there is no law that everyone who relates to a character has to be exactly like that character.

I’ll use another example from a different work, Mary Shelley’s Frankenstein. (Quick little note: Frankenstein is the scientist, not the creature. The Creature is actually quite complex and a deep character that is not the mindless monster from movies.)

Frankenstein: wealthy, a genius, comes from a high(ish) class, (presumably) handsome

Creature: neglected, hated for his ugliness, abandoned by Frankenstein, feared, smart

I doubt anyone was stitched together from dead bodies and then somehow reanimated. But you might relate to the fact that the Creature was abandoned or that people fear and hate him because of his looks. I also doubt that anyone has figured out the secret to reanimating dead bodies after taking them apart and stitching them together. But you might also (or solely) relate to Frankenstein because he lost his mother or because he feels responsible for a family member’s death. Those are some examples.

And there are plenty of characters that you could relate to or aspects of characters that speak to you. Maybe you’ve built a tangle of lies like Evan without meaning to, or maybe you have gone through a hard divorce and try so hard to get through to your child without success like Heidi, or maybe you really care about making a difference and don’t feel like the people who are supposed to help you take that seriously like Alana.

That about wraps it up. If I’ve missed anything, feel free to tell me, and I’ll make a follow-up post.

Again, I’m not demanding that you agree with me, but hopefully, whether a fan or critic, you have now seen a different perspective.

#dear evan hansen #evan hansen #connor murphy #musicals #spoilers #please reply

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