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abandoned--reality · 1 month

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I totally hear you in the reasonings! But it still just kind of proves my point.

Obviously, you and I, as the reader and listener have information that the characters don’t. We know the background we know the ending already.

Full Speed Ahead:

I do agree that being too trusting is what led them to the cyclops cave, and I am struggling with the concept of the greet the world with open arm vs Warrior of the Mind because Athena’s method proved to be right thus far.

But again, if they had followed Eurylochus, at least some of the men would have eaten the lotus when they raided the island before Odysseus could stop them, and they would have been done for.

Remember Them:

I don’t agree they would have been able to escape without the sheep. There’s a reason Odysseus was telling them to wait. Both were a gamble, but in my opinion, Odysseus’s plan got all the remaining men out while I think Eurylochus plan would have resulted in more casualties.

Storm:

We’re assuming there’s a way around the storm when I don’t think there would be. It’s divinely caused. There’s no around, only through. Eurylochus wasn’t even offering solutions or other paths. Just saying they were going to die. “We’re taking too much damage to survive.” Do they know this? No. But Odysseus is the only one with a plan and listening to Eurylochus gets then killed.

Luck runs out:

This is my biggest disagreement because *Odysseus isn’t lucky.* He’s cunning and calculated and planning. The whole song is an insult to Odysseus as a warrior! A warrior of the mind. He plans his every step and move!

You bring up anchoring to an island. The floating island is the only island around. Do they know that if they don’t anchor to the island and get the wind they’ll die? No. But if they listen to Eurylochus they die.

Puppeteer:

“Inside the meal she cast a spell”

I don’t see an implication there’s a spell that lures them inside. The spell was in the food. They were horny men who didn’t stop to think—like they haven’t the entire story—and got them into trouble.

He even says it’s a game of wits and doesn’t trust Odysseus to win.

Eurylochus doesn’t know about the prophet. But if they listen to him, they die (as does the whole crew).

So while I can see the places that Eurylochus might have been coming from, Odysseus to this point in the story has time and time again proven himself to be a trustworthy, capable leader who will get his men out of dire situations. There’s no trust shown from Eurylochus, zero credit due.

They don’t have all the information. He doesn’t know why Odysseus is doing the things he’s doing. But they worked every other time, so why is he constantly telling him he’s wrong?.

Odysseus is risky and witty and calculated. That’s how the 600 men survived war. But right from the get go, Eurylochus second guesses his every move.

I love analyzing lyrics and discussing different interpretations of the same story!

I do love your prediction of how the next few sagas will go though! I’m really excited to watch it all play out

I see a lot of memes on how short the story would be if Odysseus just listened to Eurylochus, but like.. am I missing something?

Odyssesus telling his name to the cyclops is the biggest mistake obviously. But besides that… the crew and Eurylochus are constantly making messes that Odysseus has to clean up.

Full Speed Ahead: 6 hundred reasons to take what we can; let’s raid the place and go

Taking what they could is what GOT them into the situation in the first place. They took the cyclops sheep and brought the wrath of the cyclops

Remember Them: captain, we should run; captain please

If they’d run when Eurylochus wanted, they would’ve been caught and seen by the other cyclops. Certainly not able to make away with the sheep.

Luck Runs Out: please don’t tell me you’re about to do what I think you’ll do

If Odysseus HADNT gone to the wind god and gotten the bag, when they come upon Poseidon, the entire crew would have been gone. Having the bag of wind save them.

Puppeteer: we have to go save them/no we don’t!; let’s cut our losses you and I and let’s run

Had they done that, not only would all the men left alive be left as pigs, but the two would have never survived. They never would have gone to the underworld to the prophet, and never would have survived the journey home.

So Eurylochus doesn’t make any good suggestions to Odysseus. On the contrary, he proves to be a horrible second in command who doesn’t trust Odysseus and undermines his judgement at every step, causing constant conflict.

Remember them: insisting they run as the cyclops gather and possibly putting the whole crew in danger

Storm: captain, we will capsize at this rate, our fleet will fail; we’re taking too much damage to survive; at this rate, we won’t make it out alive

Luck Runs Out: the entirety of this song is not only Eurylochus challenging Odysseus and questioning his judgment in front of their entire crew, but also insulting Odysseus for the very thing that got 600 men out of Troy alive. It was Odysseus’s wit that ended the war in Troy. It was his wit that moved him to poor Lotus in the cyclops wine. It was wet to tell the cyclops his name was nobody, keeping them from being killed by all the additional cyclops that come to check out the scene.

Odysseus’s pride is what bringsPoseidon wrath, but it’s his width that has gotten 600 men that far.

Keep Your Friends Close: we don’t hear Eurylochus in most of this song, and that’s part of my problem with him. Why the hell is Odysseus staying awake for nine days? Why does he not have anyone on his ship that he can trust to watch the bag for him to close his eyes for 30 minutes? Where is Eurylochus when the other men are opening the bag and letting out the winds of the storm? Why does Odysseus’s second in command not have his back? Why are the men not conscious of the fact that the second in command would also disapprove of their actions? Is it because he wouldn’t? Is it because his constant undermining has encouraged it?

Then the very end, when Odysseus ask for help, closing the bag, what’s Eurylochus’s immediate response? it’s not OK. It’s not yes sir. It’s. “It’s too late.”

Even in the middle of a crisis, he still won’t listen to the captain. He still won’t trust Odysseus’s judgment that ultimately saves them in the end of the saga.

Puppeteer: Only I stayed outside, but the rest went in

Did Eurylochus not even try to stop the men? Does he have such little regard for their safety? He lets them do whatever they want? Has he earned such a little respect that they don’t listen to him?

Like I touched on earlier, if Odysseus listened to Eurylochus’s doubt, not only would all their men be doomed, but Eurylochus and Odysseus as well.

I honestly have so much distain for Eurylochus and his lack of respect for Odysseus. as the listeners and people who know the story, we know just how deep the facts of revealing his name to the cyclops run. But the rest of the men don’t. Eurylochus doesn’t. He just never trusted Odysseus to lead in the first place.

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abandoned--reality · 2 months