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kob131 · 4 years

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6XgKp9jj4Is

*sigh* Great, yet ANOTHER ‘Let’s rewrite Adam’ argument made by miss ‘It’s hard to keep track of RWBY characters like Zwei.’

“Degredation of Adam’s character from Blake’s mentor to an abusive ex to a whiny incel who makes insults like it’s his Pokémon name.”

A. “Blake’s mentor” is not a character. It is a description and not even a bare bones one.

B. What is the difference between an abusive ex and an incel exactly? They’re both used to describe despicable people in relation to romance.

C. That is not what incel. You’re using it as a generic insult and thus that last description may as well say ‘Adam bad’ for all the substance it has.

D. Adam always made stupid insults. People laughed at his voice in the Black Trailer and in Volume 3 for fuck’s sake.

And E. What WOULD you make Adam that wouldn’t just make him every generic freedom fighter?

“We’re gonna drop the abusive angel completely and go with Monty’s original plan-”

Done.

You just killed your own video by assuming a dead man’s intention with no fucking reason other than ‘mouthpiece.’

I have no reason to accept anything you say in good faith after this. Before you say that you wanted to change as little as possible then change a massive aspect while using a corpse as a meat shield from criticism.

You are owed nothing from this point on.

‘You don’t doodle your abuser in your notebook-”

Unless, you know, think about them. But hey, why use your brain when you can rely on the inevitable RWBY haters to drown out all criticism?

‘The abuse angle is the worst explored in the show-”

Proof?

No?

Considering your history, I HIGHLY doubt that.

“*Insert Adam into the Volume 2 train fight instead of the WF Lieutennat because he was an out of nowhere threta*”

...

So the Black Trailer and the Volume 2 finale never happened...or you’re an incompetent idiot.

“It gives the scene more weight because we know who Adam is-”

We also know who the WF lieutenant is AND we don’t waste an important character for a worthless fight that amounts to nothing as the train fights ultimately mean NOTHING.

Congrats, you made Adam worse because his first in series fight had him giving a good performance. Here, he can’t even kill Weiss (and in fact, as I am about to explain, he’d get CURB STOMPED by Weiss.)

Just as well, you’ll need to completely change his weakness. Adam is a glass cannon, he can dish out a lot of damage and move quickly but one good hit knocks him down. Makes sense since he’s not exactly big and buff and he can’t fight back when someone isn’t intimidated by him. It also makes him dangerous to Yang as she relies on taking hits at first which she can’t do with Adam because she often flings herself in ways that make dodging impossible. It also makes sense why Blake can fuck him over and why she can get fucked over: she’s also fragile but evasive which connects her with Adam too.

But say he fights, I dunno, someone who can zip around quickly in a manner that he can’t block the attacks and would logically get fucked over quickly by. Like say, a Semblance that zips you from spot to spot like WEISS’.

Yeah, he’d lose in an instant against Weiss because he’s never seen to be able to block attacks moving that fast and he’d get fucked over quick. So you’d need to up his durability and suddenly he loses a logical weakness that is represented by his personality, connecting him to Blake, basically making him a Yang clone and now you need a NEW weakness. Suddenly a lot of Adam’s interesting elements SHATTER.

This is why Adam rewrites suck. None of you think through your writing. You make the same mistakes that Miles and Kerry made but with less experience, less insight and less care and then pile on EVEN MORE flaws.

Worst of all, the bullshit you give about ‘knowing his threat level’ ignores other factors like appearance, attitude and fighting style. Oh wait, I know why. If we include those, the WF Lieutennat suddenly becomes a clear threat. His appearance is distinctly different from the WF goons, with his tall and thick frame indicating he’s strong and durable while his choice of weapon shows he would have a strong but slow fighting style and his attitude shows that if Weiss loses she could very well die a PAINFUL death by a sadist chainsaw wielding terrorist. (’More tension’ my ass.)

You throw out so much just for ONE point that was accomplished in the original anyway. What the fuck else are you gonna muck up?

“Have adam be there to show Adam working with Torchwick-”

Which Blake would already assume since the WF is working with Torchwick and Adam LEADS the WF. But I guess Blake is too stupid to do basic math.

“Then have Adam let Blake run away-”

WHAT THE FUCK?!

Run to where?! They are in an enclosed space! Adam should be chasing after her! He has every reason to chase after her, both personal and professional!

“Then we can have dialogue that goes something like this in Volume 3: Adam: “I don’t want to have to fight you but I will if I have to. Blake: No no, Humans aren’t bad people! Adam: I have seen what they can do. Your family kept you safe. I wasn’t so lucky-”

Cool, so he’s every generic ‘sympathetic’ freedom fighter now.

Instead of being a deconstruction of the noble wounded freedom fighter, showing how such a person would be impossible for such a situation from the extremity of the harm done to him, the manipulation by his superiors for their own ends and his own faults, he’s just a generic pity bag now.

No wait, a SHITTY generic pity bag now because in the Black Trailer, he explictedly tried to blow up innocent people on a train. Blake even questioned him on it and he said ‘So?’. That isn’t the reaction of some noble but misguided person, that’s the reaction of someone so far off the deep end they’ve lost basic sympathy.

Trying to make him out to be noble here would be like trying to make me believe Raven is this secret loving mother or this protector: their actions in the past CONTRADICT this.

‘But Twiinks never said that-’

Her choice of words did. The words you choose your characters to say speaks about how we are suppose to view them. Adam’s word choice in the original communicates a dangerous sadism and madness built from pain and a lack of emotional maturity. This version communicates a sadness stemming from a supposed kindness that Adam SHOULDN’T have.

‘But it tells us what they’re stances on humans are-’

So did the original while also why we should route for Blake over Adam (i.e. she’s still sane and tries to be kind while Adam has lost it and is being cruel and vindictive.)

We literally lost something here.

“He truly feels like this is the only way to help Fanaus-”

So we're now working off the assumption he cares about the Fanaus and not just himself and his own pain, deconstructing how real life movements become corrupted from their original purpose by focusing on their own personal pain than a universal kindness.

Cool, so Adam isn’t Adam anymore.

“Adam still stabs Sienna but it’s about the orgnazation instead of a lame power grab-”

*rolls eyes*

I really hate these rewrites. Why do you even bother with Adam if you tear out the character and insert someone completely different?

“Adam is remorseful, Sienna says something like ‘I would rather die than give you the organization’, and Adam apologizes. Perfect scene.”

A cheesy line that rings hollow and more OOC. Wonder-fucking-ful. I also looked ahead and saw that you are changing Adam’s character short to be about getting his scar. (More on that mess when we get to it.) So Adam being used by Sienna to push for her more violent agenda over Ghira’s peaceful one, something used by the show to show we shouldn’t be shitty to each other (AKA A core theme) still exists. Meaning that what should be Sienna paying for her sins by having the very person she used to push her agenda take it to its logical extreme, kill her in turn and destroy her work is just nonsensical pity begging.

I also assume Adam declaring his idea of Fanaus Supremacy and basically quoting Mein Kampf is still in the show since you never address that. Cool, so either I pity a woman who screwed this man’s life or I pity Furry Hitler. *slow claps*

“During the Volume 5 fight, his breaks and we see his scar-”

...

I’m not even surprised by how dumb this shit is.

Adam’s scarf reveal in Volume 6 was wonderful and one of the best moments in the show. For so long, we saw Adam as someone who was destructive and hateful for no reason and right there, the audience is forced to see that while his actions are inexcusable, his reasons are very human and very real. He’s not a monster, he’s a person whose consumed by pain. At the very end of his life, Adam wasn’t a monster: he was a sorrowful reminder of what pain does to a person.

What does the scar reveal do here? ... Nothing. Seeing his face in full means nothing. Twiinks doesn’t even say anything about it. It’s just there because she wants a look of remorse and thinks that can’t be accomplished with the mask. Even though we could see him cry or have a look of sorrowful anguish. Adam can emote fine without his mask.

I just-I can’t believe this.

”The Adam short is now instead of a bunch of emotionless fight scenes now about how Adam got his scar-”

...

Just more pissing on what makes Adam good. Yeah yeah...

The Adam short is not just a bunch of emotionless fight scenes. The fight scene you show (of Adam protecting Ghira) shows so much. It shows the struggles of the peaceful White Fang, it shows Adam being shocked at killing a human as he hadn’t fallen yet, it shows Sienna using Adam to push her violence without concern for his well being and it shows how he got it into his head killing was fine.

That was ONE scene. ONE. Your scar replacement as a whole would have less impact (as we can tell how got it from context clues) than ONE scene.

Are you guys getting WHY I hate rewrites of RWBY so much?

“Adam finds Oscar-”

If this doesn’t end with “and then he kills Oscar” I don’t care. Even this version of Adam would jump at killing a human and would have no idea Oscar knows Blake.

And it doesn’t. Great. BTW, Oscar wouldn’t know about the plan at this point so him showing up at the CCT tower isn’t explained and this scene is pointless.

“Adam would show up at the CCT tower, killing the CCT guards while ranting about equality and justice. Blake jumps in, leading him away to the waterfall. She says ‘Adam, you’ve gone too far! You’re just as bad as the people who hurt you!’“

Gee, that wasn’t clear when he tried BLOWING UP A TRAIN FULL OF INNOCENT PEOPLE?!

Also, Twiinks tries to push this idea that Blake wants to reconnect with Adam (which makes no sense as she LEFT Adam).

“Now we have the decapitation scene-”

We know she’s not gonna die, the fear came from the destruction of beacon and Yang being injuried. Of course Blake isn’t gonna die here.

“-moved to a thematically appreciate moment in the story-”

Considering you didn’t give two shits about thematic before, why the fuck would I care now?

“-Yang isn’t involved as to not muddy how if it was self defense.-”

So Yang’s arc is just scrapped and instead of having someone around who went through similar shit as Adam with a similar mindset and personality to dislay how wrong he is, we have a far shittier version that doesn’t even serve it’s purpose as protecting friends and family is covered by self defense and the people who bitched now would still bitch because Adam dying is the issue, not self defense.

“We see regret in Adam’s eyes-”

Means nothing because he was just a loon at this point out of nowhere and he’s still a terrible person. See, the thing is you can give a pitiable side to characters like Adam but you have to accept there is still good reason to hate him. Trying to hammer sympathy at us is just gonna make him less sympathetic.

“We shouldn’t be developing the budding relationship-”

It wasn’t.

That wasn’t a fucking romantic scene, it was an emotional breakdown after a stressful

“By making Adam an understandable character-”

This is perhaps the most insulting part.

Adam IS understandable. Just because you don’t sympathize with him doesn’t mean you can’t see how he became this way. He was enslaved at a young age, branded in a way that robbed him of so much, he tried to make things better but because of forces outside of his control and his own issues, he lost his way and became what made him: someone cruel and uncaring of others. And yet, even as he does terrible things, we can still see that even he is a victim of the world, lamenting his fall and who he could have been.

That is something that fits the tone of RWBY so much better than a generic freedom fighter turned crazy person. Not to mention all the brilliant details you scrapped for shallow and boring details that any run of the mill show could do.

You improved NOTHING here. You just turned Adam from an interesting deconstruction and a cautionary tale of what we can become to every revolutionary in western media which, considering America’s origins, are a dime a dozen.

I’ll say it again: This is why I hate rewrites. You didn’t put nearly as much thought and effort into the show as the creators did and yet you stand on their work, rot it from the inside and try pedaling a worse version because it fits some people’s delusions.

Every time I look into you Twiinks, you become worse. How far will YOU fall?

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weightlessribbons · 5 years

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The politics of RWBY and its faunus subplot

I love RWBY but every time I think about its politics it gives me a goddamn migraine

disgustingly long post below

So the main conflict of the story is the mostly apolitical struggle against the Grimm, and the largest subplot is the WF arc and the theme of anti-faunus racism

But the show has nearly nothing to say on the subject. Its message is almost utterly vacant.

We have Blake at the start of the show disillusioned with the only civil rights organization in existence, which is also a genocidal terrorist operation (🤔🤔🤔), and is left directionless and without a real idea of what to do.[1] Oobleck asks her how her being a huntress will solve the racism thing and she can't answer him. Okay, that's something: we could have a character arc about her finding direction and deciding to Do Something to Solve Racism.

But when she gives her speech at the end of the WF arc, in Menagerie like four volumes later, she still doesn't know what to do about racism! She scarcely mentions racism at all; all she says with any conviction is that the faunus population in general fails to denounce Adam’s WF. It reminds me of similar rhetoric with regard to Muslims in the US: if you're not loud enough in your denunciations, it's your own fault if people lump you in with the terrorists. Never mind that such demands are never made in good faith and minorities are lumped in with the terrorists anyway. If you're being discriminated against, it's your fault for not being a good enough citizen, and if you were just of better moral character you wouldn't be marginalized. That's all in the way of a plan Blake offers: just be a good person, and the humans will give you your rights!

So that's the message: racism is bad. Also, murdering innocent civilians is bad. Be a good person.

So what does "being a good person" mean?

Well, we can guess. A theme prominent here is forgiveness: Blake forgives Ilia. Implicit: the faunus should forgive the humans.[2]

That's it: forgiveness. Not, you know, any sort of political organization, or any sort of demands for justice, or any overthrow or even reform of corrupt institutions. Just keep playing the game and things will get better. Also, be willing to risk your life for others, and for the unity of the Society, even if they hate you. It’s not fair, but it’s the only way things get better.[3][4]

But is it, really?

We see a similar theme earlier, in V3. At the end of the volume we have narration by Salem to the effect of "unity" and "trust" being the greatest strengths of humanity. The obvious reading is, then, that unity and trust are Good. The Best, in fact. But what does that mean, exactly?

Cinder's monologue gives us an idea. According to her, the people have placed too much faith in their public institutions. Their "guardians" are authoritarian, secretive, and fallible.

There it is, then. The text is clear: distrust of powerful public institutions only helps the forces of evil.[5] (Also, the only people expressing such distrust are foreign chaos agents bent on destroying our freedoms.)

If "you should trust the authorities” seems to contradict the racism theme mentioned earlier, it actually doesn't. Racism in RWBY is never portrayed as an institutional or systemic issue; it's usually called "hatred". This allows for the text to acknowledge racism as an important issue that is a problem of character, rather than of power[6], and therefore attempts to address it should not destabilize existing power structures.

It’s no surprise, then, that racism, an ostensibly major theme, receives such scant attention. There's Weiss being racist, and Cardin being racist, the two things that receive more than a couple of lines on the topic. There's Blake's WF exposition that actually says very little about racism at all. There's a blink-and-you-miss-it "No Faunus" sign in a Mistral bar. There's Menagerie, some kind of faunus reservation, the nature of which is so vague it’s hard to say anything at all about it[7]. We get little attention to of (say) hiring or housing discrimination, or any other systemic racism; these are issues entirely foreign to the elite paramilitary children with whom the narrative is most concerned[8]. Again, racism presented as a character flaw, rather than a systemic issue of unjust power dynamics.

You can tell what a narrative cares about by what it emphasizes. The racism theme in the Vale arc is chiefly flavor for the hordes of faceless WF goons; the text doesn’t say anything worthwhile about racism itself. In the Mistral/Menagerie arc, the narrative is not about overcoming racism but about the recuperation of marginalized communities into the existing power structure in the name of unity and forgiveness.

What is lacking, I think, is any substantive or satisfying notion of justice. The text doesn’t give us any answer as to what should be done about racism, other than Be a Good Person, and that’s because racial justice simply isn’t that important to the narrative. Before solving a problem you must name it, and the text doesn’t. We have an entire racism/terrorism arc that manages to say nearly nothing on racism at all, because, as Blake says, the answer to the question of justice is complicated, and the text just doesn’t have the time.

[1]One funny thing to look at is Blake’s expository monologue to Sun in V1 about how the WF “turned dark”. The WF performed “organized attacks” by vandalizing discriminatory businesses and expropriating goods from corporations using “faunus labor”(does this mean slavery? or employees? that would be weird). It’s strange that these would be the things that forced her to leave; property crimes aren’t really a big deal compared to the killing of civilians depicted in the black trailer, which she for some reason doesn’t bring up. She says that it was working, and that human fear brought equality, but that such equality was bad since it wasn’t out of respect (and therefore would be fleeting). This is incredible in two ways. First: a government and populace that actually feared the WF would not bring equality, but rapid extermination (of the WF, that is). Fear doesn’t actually help unless you have power, and the WF seem to have no base of material or popular support and no praxis except insurrectionist violence[A]. Second: if it were somehow actually working, then why did Blake leave? What was the purpose of all this action, if not to attain power by making yourself a credible threat? Did you become a liberal out of nowhere? That she talks about property crime and “fear” instead of the killing of civilians is baffling.

[2]Yes, I know that Blake wants them to specifically go to Haven and physically stop the WF. Yes, stopping a terrorist attack is good, even if these civilians aren't at all fit for purpose. But this doesn't itself help to stop racism, which is why I didn't mention it specifically above.

[3]This mirrors the confrontation between Yang and Raven wrt Salem and the relic.

[4]We do learn later that Blake wants a “new” WF. This means, presumably, that the WF will go back to peaceful protest. But that doesn’t come up in her speech, and no mention, of course, of how it would help them in achieving their goals, or even what those goals are, specifically, other than ending “hatred” in general. March to End Racism. What a visionary.

[5]Also, distrust, anger, and other “negative emotions” attract the Grimm. That’s like metaphysical tone policing right there.

[6]There’s backstory of faunus having been enslaved which would count as systemic racism, but it doesn’t come up later or really affect anything on-screen, and the text doesn’t portray it at enough length or depth to characterize it as such.

[7]Menagerie being crappy must be understood within a wider context: why live in Menagerie, if it sucks, instead of where everyone else lives? Not much attention given to why this happens (other than perhaps “individuals are racist”). And does Menagerie being crappy actually have any consequences? Like economically, or socially? We don’t see them.

[8]The times where it seems the text might make a systemic critique are Adam’s backstory and Atlas in general. Adam’s trauma isn’t really remarked upon; he’s not a sympathetic figure. We don’t know much about Atlas since that’s for next season, but limiting your systemic critique to the one racist place seems a bad way to do things. We’ll have to see how it goes.

[A] Also, it’s not clear when the WF moved from “property crime” to “kill all humans”(which is comically over-the-top), and no one remarks on it. It gives one the sense that the narrative sees property crime and genocide as equally objectionable.

[ADDENDUM] Some might object by way of noting that RWBY hasn’t taken us to Atlas yet, where the racism lives, and that the WF arc wasn’t primarily about racism, but terrorism, so one shouldn’t expect the theme of racism to be addressed before Atlas. The problem is, though, that the WF was ostensibly founded as a civil rights organization; you cannot meaningfully conclude an arc on the WF without addressing racism. For example, at the end of V5 says that she wants to build a “new” WF. What does this mean? We never find out, because it’s not that important.

#rwby #if you enjoyed this content consider subscribing to my Patreon #which you can find on my linkedin page

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yangingaround · 6 years

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So what are your thoughts on the most recent episode, developments so far and expectations for the future. Kind of expecting a 3 part finale raid on Haven after the next episode resolves' the WF situation. (The raid is stressing me out so much) Also, wow, they planned to raid the camp before the new term but they have like 2 days left, not so great at time management XD

i think the most recent episode was kinda… boring, honestly. like i feel you could’ve cut down the whole negotiation down to about the quarter of its length and lost nothing, and we just went from one cliffhanger last episode with pretty much the same cliffhanger this episode with very little actually changing

like we’ve got Raven dressing down Salem’s goons, playing them for chumps by claiming she wants them to help her kill Qrow just so she can backstab them and grab the relic for herself - that was good but again, the whole scene dragged out for too long and was literally just them standing around and talking (by far the most egregious example so far this volume), which was also kind of a letdown considering last we saw the villains they were planning on getting violent with the bandits

the fight in Menagerie didn’t add too much, just shows Blake’s still making use of Dust, a little on how the Albains and Ghira fight, more Ghira hating Sun (which i approve of, though i’ve a feeling it’ll lead to them being more amicable after they win which’ll be annoying) and Kali’s current predicament unknown (and they’d better not fridge her) because Ilia and Blake are gonna throw down

i think following this confrontation we’re gonna get hints at Ilia’s redemption arc, if it doesn’t kick off right then, because maybe this’d be a good place for Blake to talk about what Adam’s like to someone who has context for who he is - finding out he’s not an extreme but righteous leader but a petulant abuser who wants supremacy, not respect and equality, is sure to have an impact with Ilia

and then there’s the unaccounted-for time, because at this point in the present story, Blake should be in Mistral somewhere, but because the Menagerie arc still hasn’t wrapped up (and i feel like with how much time this episode wasted, it probably could’ve done by now), we have no idea where she could be; is she on her way after escaping Menagerie alone? with her family? with her family + Ilia? is she already there with them and laying low until they know the raid is gonna start?

or has she given herself deliberately to save her family (unlikely, because she doesn’t have anything to bargain, Adam wanted her alive and her family dead anyway, and then she gets to Mistral, where Adam’s just gonna kill her anyway)?

but yeah, i’m interested in seeing where everything’s heading, it’s just taking its sweet time getting there

#yangalysis #vol5 spoilers

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kaiyeti · 7 years

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Weiss has been captured by the WF ! But don't worry, her girlfriend has a plan... She has a plan, right ? Aniway, she has two team members left at backup ! ... Who has found something more "interesting" to do.

Define Interesting? *I think they mean Yang and Blake banging.* Oh… *… You’re not goi-* WINGING IT!

Weiss: You’ll very get away with this! Besides! I’m not the heiress any more! My father disowned me! This doesn’t benefit you at all!

WF goon: That does matter. You still know where all the schnee dust mines are and you are going to help us take them over.

Weiss: You won’t get away with this! My friends will come for me.

Wf Goon: With What? We got all your weapons remember. *Suddenly the doors burst open with a cloud of Rose petals.* What the hell!?

Ruby: NO BODY MOVE! I’M HERE TO SAVE MY BFF AND CHEW GUM! AND I AM ALL OUT OF GUM! *Ruby shouted from the rose storm.*

Weiss: RUBY! *Weiss smiled*

Wf Goon: Quiet you. *He growled at Weiss before turning toward Ruby as she slowlt becomes visible.* Look little girl. We all know that you are unarmed so why don’t you just give up now and we’ll-

Ruby: HA! You think I am unarmed!? WELL THINK AGAIN! *Ruby yelled swinging her cloak out of the way to reveal a Zwei strapped to her chest who has a bundle of TNT in his mouth like a bone.*

All Wf goons: OH FUCKING SHIT!/ AAAW!~

Ruby: NOW HAND OVER WEISS OR ZWEI WILL BLOW US ALL TO HECK!

Weiss: Oh my god. This is the best she came up with?

Wf Goon: Oh get real kid. We know you won’t let the dog blow us up. Besides, Those are road flares.

Ruby: That maybe so. *Suddenly to groups of the White fang goons explode, being sent flying through the air.* But that doesn’t stop Zwei’s semblance! AHHAHAHAHAHA!

Wf Goon: OKAY OKAY! JUST TAKE HER AND GO!

Ruby: Gladly. *Ruby then zipped over to Weiss and untied her from her chair.*

Weiss: Ruby, How did you do that?

Ruby: Lets just say it was a team effort.

~Outside in the roof top of the building next to them~

Blake: See? I told you you were a natural. *Blake said as she sets up another mini bomb on a golf tee.*

Yang: Thanks. Though I didn’t know you played explosive golf.

Blake: Yeah it was a pass time when I didn’t have a book to read… You want to shoot a few more once Ruby and Weiss are in the clear?

Yang: God I love you.

#rwby #weiss schnee #ruby rose #Blake Belladonna #yang xiao long

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yangingaround · 7 years

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With "Queen has pawns" is Cinder or Salem the queen? Cinder is young and so presumably an unknown prior to attacking Amber. That could be a message confirming that Cinder is one of Salem's versus an unconnected power monger. Also Cinder getting the Maiden powers fits the idea of a pawn promoting. On the other hand Ozpin finding out that the WF is hijacked and not doing absolutely anything fits his MO.

okay, in volume 4, when Ruby asks if what’s going on has anything to do with the White Fang or Roman Torchwick, Tyrian responds “plastic soldiers and pawns” - with Roman fitting the ‘pawn’ category while the White Fang are ‘plastic soldiers’ (so Cinder’s associates = pawns, Cinder’s probably more along the lines of... well, a Knight piece, given her unpredictability - and we might as well start building those contrasts between WTC/H and RWB/Y early on). now we get the ‘queen has pawns’ line from Qrow to Ozpin at the end of volume 1, following the fight and in a moment where Ozpin is clearly aware of what happened - which is a cue to the audience that what Qrow is saying is connected to the stuff with the White Fang and Torchwick (and we learn in volume 3 that Qrow is out investigating Salem - “i’ve been out there and i’ve seen the things she’s made, and trust me, they are fear”; also sidenote, we haven’t seen what Salem’s made yet - so Qrow’s ‘queen’ reference was probably referring to Salem; specially as Tyrian uses the same epithet for her in vol 4). the audience is led to believe it’s referring to Cinder (especially given the black Queen virus in volume 2/3 - which we can now surmise was made by Watts, so the piece is still likely a reference to Salem) because Salem was still a mystery to us at the time

now i’ve a feeling they already knew Cinder was involved, even though they didn’t know her name or what she looked like, and that she was working for Salem - like they’d determined it was the same individual(as Cinder showing off against Glynda a few months after Amber’s powers were half-stolen by someone who could only have been working for Salem to be able to pull of what she did the way she did it? way too coincidental - they already knew she was around - because they were treating Qrow’s ‘the enemy is already here’ as old news - they just never got a good look at her, and neither did Qrow thanks to Emerald’s semblance). so Salem being referred to as Queen for that specific situation is again likely

and then yeah, that means Ozpin knew that the White Fang had, at the very least, thrown in their lot with Salem’s goons, and was continuing to do nothing, even though he couldn’t know it was only the local chapter of the organisation

#yangalysis #grundpfeiler

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