#wewe's opinionions

[wewebaggit]

The Big Byler Theory

This might not be well structured but I will try not to be all over the place and keep it as short as possible. So here goes.

How it's gone so far

First and foremost, Mike's got to earn it. He has been a bit of a bitch and an asshole and has not yet learned the art of apologising. The show and Mike rest on Will's enthusiasm to forgive and forget to make it seem like all's fine and dandy. Mike hasn't apologised for his homophobic remark in season 3 and neither has he apologised for repeatedly ignoring Will. (season 4 apology was lame sowie) Mike has to learn to make amends (not just with Will) and take responsibility for his words. You can't just be the heart and then simultaneously be the asshole.

Will on the other hand needs to get to a point where he "doesn't hate himself" or at least makes major improvement in his self worth. His arc can't be about realising that he's deserving of Mike's love. But love in general.

Van Scene/Garage Scene aka Byler create a Scene

People talk about how Mike doesn't make him feel like a mistake at all and apply it to Mike making him feel like he's okay/better for being gay. NO. Mike's love and friendship makes him better for being different. Different in the way he's small and shy and easily intimidated but better cuz he feels like he can voice his opinions in front of Mike. Different in the way that his clothes are colourful, he draws and is artsy and sensitive and has been regularly bullied for those qualities even by his own father but better cuz Mike plasters his art everywhere. Different in the way that his songs are "stupid" or not Kenny Rogers but better cuz he can sing them around Mike anyway. Different in the way that he was possessed by a netherworldly entity and used as a spy but better cuz Mike made him their super spy. Different in how he was alone on the swings and Mike walked up to him and asked him to be his friend and it was the best thing he ever did. Different in the way he feels not everyone understands him but better cuz Mike does and would be gladly go crazy together with him. Different in how he is usually treatedlike a baby, like a freak but better cuz Mike doesn't treat him differently at all.

But that does not give Mike a pass. The 2020fication of the 80s or the post-homophobiafication of humanity in general has made people excuse homophobia just because it came from a gay guy. People need to realise that just because you suspect someone to be homophobic, you don't just cut them out of your life. Many do. Many don't. There's militant homophobia and then there's the hate the sin not the sinner homophobia. And everything in between. So Will regardless of what he thinks about Mike's homophobia is not just gonna dump his ass. As far as Will knows Mike's just straight. He does not have Tumblr perspective. Heck he has lesser than casual viewer perspective. So his gayness is still definitely something Mike doesn't make him feel better about. Cuz Mike doesn't even know for one. And Mike is just rubbing his relationship in his face even if it's not about being homophobic but just a bad friend. (In Will's POV)

And no. This is not to call Mike the devil's spawn. But to say that an express apology is fundamental to his own arc. Because to apologise to Will he must first forgive himself for wanting what he wants.

I resent the idea that Mike is aware of AND willing to explore his feelings for Will but ONLY stops himself because he loves El so so much and doesn't want to lose her. Makes no sense. She hasn't really been sending him any signals of wanting to chuck him out of her life.

Mike's arc is about conformism. And it is because he's someone who can successfully do it without being "clocked". He isn't scared to lose her. He is scared to lose his shield. He's scared to face his "difference" cuz if he doesn't have a girlfriend he is only a boy who doesn't really want girlfriends and honestly can't get girlfriends.

And again that's not a commentary on his frog face or inability to rizz up or whatever the kids are calling it these days. It is his canon inability to know anything about dating a girl. Something that is very instinctual. (Confusion over how to get back El vs just knowing to go after Will). He keeps looking up to Lucas who's by no means an expert since that's his first relationship too. But my boy Sinclair has his hetero instincts with him. Puberty slapped Mike hard and he is now not only aware that he's attracted to boys but also that he's not attracted to girls.

It's his defensiveness and self-hate that made him lash out at Will. Was he projecting? Yes. But was he really remorseful? No. Because he intended to say what he did. That's what people do when they're defensive. Cuz it was an entirely disproportionate response to "some stupid girl". Also a hetero would know bros before hoes. (ik shit) But he completely cuts off his bros? Ya. So so straight. As seen with Lucas not finding it hard to find a balance. (It's been like this all summer - Lucas Sinclair himself said it).

So what does it mean for Byler? (That is so horribly underdeveloped LMAO I can't even bt that's for a different day).

How it should go moving forward (I feel/hope/pray/manifest)

Well, the timing of it could be anything. But that painting is gonna be brought up. And it is going to be messy. I know people want Mike to be sad and not angry, but sad and angry is just so much better and makes sense. There is a fight. Because neither are ready to lay it all out in the open. You don't suddenly gain that confidence. I hope they're separated after. If it is because of avoidance, different team ups, or both. Doesn't matter. They both need time with their thoughts and the time being spent thinking about their own selves. This growth may be through convos with their loved ones and some other self reflective moments. I think that Mike's gonna get a coming out scene most probably with Karen. Will might get a scene like the one he already got in SBP with Jonathan but maybe with Joyce. (I hope she needs to make a comeback as a mother.) It could be a private moment or a Byers family moment. I don't want a party coming out. I want the boys to share this with the people that are closest to them and their fiercest supporters and rocks. Karen for Mike and Joyce n Jonatan for Will. Also, I think it's Mike who's gonna HAVE TO expressly say it while Will's could go either way. This is cuz of the differences in their circumstances - in/visible gayness.

How do they get together? Well believe it or not, a lot of unnecessary supernatural and sci-fi plot shit is crammed in (bullshit right?) and maybe they're now more okay being around each other cuz their deepest fears have been mostly assuaged. They don't feel alone with their truth and therefore, their place in the world does not rest on the reciprocity of their feelings. Imagine not HAVING to need each other but CHOOSING to. Cuz they just really really really want it. And it would make them happy. How they pursue each other is by not hiding. Nothing too brave I feel. Just being themselves. The vibes will carry. How THE getting together scene goes - I don't know. Surprise me, honestly. But for all the shit treatment their storyline has gotten so far I want s5 to fix it so well that WHEN it happens we all go crazy together! 💙💛

#I delivered on the not well structured but fumbled on the keep it short........oops #also Will doesn't just hate himself cuz GAY bt the exploration of the other facets of his self hatred are not relevant HERE #i usually re-read what I write bt not this time so sorry for any mistakes.... by all means point and laugh #actually did re-read cuz wtf happened #byler #stranger things #will byers #mike wheeler #wewe's opinionions

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Byler sex scene is NOT happening. Neither is the fade to black. This is not about queer sexuality is bad, long live straight sex. It is just not that show. The last time this discourse happened it was basically about kissing and also about what fanfic authors were being allowed to write in their fanfics. ST the show itself is not gonna be giving gay sex. May I direct you to a fine aesthetically pleasant movie called red white and royal blue balls.

Anyway. The reasons are many. The tone of the show. If we say that the show is gonna be realistic with its portrayal then when the hell did these boys get time to learn about gay sex? In the middle of a monster crisis mind you. For all that we talk about not rushing the gay acceptance arc, and being confident in byler coming into being in the penultimate episode if not the finale, we seem to be incredibly comfortable with the idea of a sex scene (implied or not doesn't matter). They're 14-16. This isn't Jopper or even Stancy (that had time to develop even if that time was implied) or Jancy (which also had both the parties aware of each others feelings but being wilfully reticent to pursue those). Byler is set up as a plot twist or a slow burn (take your pick, but only one) and either of these means that there's not gonna be time or justification for the existence of such a scene. It's also been left for S5 which already has way too many loose ends that need to be tied.

No Arya Stark in ST. And even that was quite pathetic.

#byler #stranger things #wewe's opinionions

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"El never had romantic feelings for Mike"ers 🤝 "Mike had romantic feelings for El"ers

Y'all think y'all are arm wrestling bt it's actually called a handshake in most parts of the world.

Both come from some weird desire for romantic miIeven to have meant nothing/something for both.

Cuz everything has to be just right and fair and neatly tied in a bow. God forbid the gay boy have struggles with his sexuality or the straight girl get her heart broken in the process. Evil evil things. To have your feelings unrequited. Unless it's Will. Cuz he's single and has to stay single and pure and loyal and what not, and it's only temporary. Soon in a few years after the time skip at the end of the series he'll be rewarded for being reduced to a pathetic little sap with no social life beyond Jonathan, Mike and the horrors of having spidey sense for 2 seasons.

And yeah there will be cirque du soleil levels of acrobatics being performed to show why this story and narrative makes sense. And I'm not opposed to it for being that but just that on show that prides itself for show don't tell it neither shows nor tells and then there's outside the show telling by cast cuz inside the show showing was less subtle and more in the realm of not there at all.

MiIeven is NOT a "plot device" for Byler any more than Mike being revealed gay is a plot device for independent El. They're both self contained arcs for the respective characters. MiIeven thoroughly exploited the BSY dynamic with how their interactions were framed and played and okayed and filmed. It's incredibly condescending to fault the GA for buying into the self insert fantasy of nerdy boy gets supergirl when the show didn't shy away from profiting off of it. Regardless of Mike's impending sexuality. Especially because of the super ambiguity of Mike's sexuality it cannot be classified as anything but trope exploitation. Subversion where? Leaving some visuals here.

El initiating the kiss in S1E6

And I'd love it if anyone explains them to me that's not the tired af "El's idea of romantic love comes from her watching soap operas" cuz she was shown watching it once. She was stuck in a cabin with a TV so she watched TV most of the time and daytime is soaps. You know what she (also) watched regularly? Westerns. Miami Vice.

Also El did make the first move in s1e7 to kiss Mike. Before Mike ever kissed her in s1e8. And before the soap operas n all other things. Point being. The BSY has always been BSYing.

Poor babies being forced by Lucas, Nancy and daytime TV into making out and enjoying it. Tsk tsk. (S3E1)

A forced to be flustered and blushing El after talking to her boyfriend.

Time to make out some more. It hits different at 4:20. - Mike & El probably. Dunno it's on mute.

Naive but powerful fawn rebelling against father for nerdy boyfriend. Ya. White American thing cuz Mike would be pissing his pants if he were anywhere else or maybe anyone else. (Can you imagine Lumax this way?)

For God's sake your platonic soulmate and so called lesbian awakening's brother is dying there.

Don't even understand the point of this shot. Since Mike never looked Billy's way. Or comforted Max. A glance at El that, idk what it meant, no mike crow expressions to guide me.

Scenes from a Marriage (1973) dir. Ingmar Bergman

Scenes from a Marriage (2021) dir. Hagai Levi

There's an intentional way in which the MiIeven scenes (not just the kisses 🤮) are filmed in a more "adult" way as opposed to the "cute teenaged romance" way that some people purport it is in contrast to Lumax and Duzie. (I guess they didn't go through puberty.🤷‍♀️) Heck even Jancy, Stancy never looked this weird even though sex was shown/ implied. (Because they were played by actors born in the 20th century and even then they weren't 13 🤷‍♀️.)

MiIeven is not a plot device for Byler. It is fan service. The adults shipping them and comparing them to various other adult couples isn't outta nowhere. Please compute. Which is why it was stretched for 4 seasons.

As of NOW Mike's sexuality is still plausible deniability and the breakup too is neither here nor there. It's NOT straightbaiting. Lmao. Not at all. It's fan service. Leaving the OBVIOUS BSY aside, the point neither party were forced into anything nor were they doing it to keep appearances cuz canonically NOBODY cared. Not Dustin, not Lucas, definitely not Will and I'm sure neither did Max.

El was a willing participant and initiator and Mike was also not opposed to it until puberty monster/feelings caught up with him. El has shown her attraction to guys and it is okay. There's no need to take that away from her cuz that is also an experience of girlhood. She barely has any experiences anyway. Let her have that.

It's the same for Mike. He's not some evil monster for being gay. Not anymore than Joyce was for being with Bob out of convenience and the fact that she liked him n didn't hate him. Mike does love El and cares about her deeply as all of S4 shows.

So to sum it up. Yes I smooshed 2 posts cuz I couldn't be arsed talking about these 2 AGAIN. But Mike and El were independent agents when they decided to embark on their disastrous romantic journey and Born Sexy Yesterday is REAL.

P.S. If you find this shit cute and y'all roll your eyes over byler kissing n what not (even in fics goddamnit). Hit your head against a spiked wall till you can't no more. Piss and love. 💙💛

P.P.S. Mike's the clingy one. NOT Will.

#i need an award for taking these screenshots #i avoided the kisses cuz 🤮 but they only add to the evidence #byler #stranger things #anti mileven #i guess #wewe's opinionions #any mistakes are all yours #i ain't reading that shit again

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Still a thing I keep wondering, we all agree (well broadly somewhat) that Mike was "pushed" into dating El cuz of the heteronormativity of the people around him. Agreed. I guess. Idk. Who pushed El into leaning in for a kiss first though?

Why is it so bad if El wanted it and went for it? Same with Mike? Like no one needs to push anyone. Are we REALLY saying Mike's not a victim of his own heteronormativity? Why does it have to be others'?

Queer people also suffer (since that's what seems to be happening here) from heteronormativity. Where does the internalised homophobia come from?

It's actually a simple explanation. Mike was enamoured way before anyone suggested anything romantic. And like that's not a crime? They're literally little kids. Gay people can crush on people of the opposite gender.

Puberty hadn't happened yet. The slap in the face of everything Mike thought he knew about himself. 🤷‍♀️

#since realism is something everyone including moi enjoys #and it's how I see it #byler #stranger things #wewe's opinionions

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ST5 Will Byers Bingo (Guesses ofc)

Will has natural powers and his connection to Henry/Vecna/001 predates his abduction.

OR the connection exists cuz of the vine but henry/vecna /one figured out will had powers AND he tried to abduct him.

OR Will was in a trance n maybe he was being abducted as a vecna sacrifice before he figured out some new method? I still dunno how the sacrifices came to be the chosen method?

The abduction was possible thanks to El inadvertently opening the gate and Vecna kidnaps him after putting him in a trance like Max. So the shed thing never happened in RU but was a trance. The gooey shit found there. Honestly, no clue. The demogorgon? Idk.

Brenner put in the Soteria into Will in the UD/outside and put him back in. Idk. Hence, Will recognising Brenner. I don't think he's a lab kid.

The Soteria in fact weakened the connection between Vecna and Will and hence the next time he went after Will he had to commandeer the Shadow Monster to possess him. However, he was unsuccessful again and the shadow particles were exorcised from Will.

ST3 is a big load of bullshit, cuz the puberty monster chose to go after people done with puberty and really was a half assed attempt at some metaphor that didn't travel. However, it succeeded in copying El's powers which he needed for opening gates.

Will was ignored because maybe the shadow particles that remained weren't enough to possess him. Like he had needed the whole ass shadow monster to go inside of him in ST2. So, he created an army of the undead or whatevs. Infecting them with .......... puberty or something. Idk. Also, El was present this time. Or maybe he got alerted when she looked into Billy's mind.

Vecna wants Will to create his new world and no longer needs El. So kill her I guess. Easier in general for him. Not like he needs to open/close gates anymore.

Brenner is tracking Will. As the Soteria subdues powers and tracks location or whatever. He doesn't really need Will cuz he wants to kill Henry. He's useless for that. He just needs for Will to not know of his powers and regain his memories. Just needs to stay away from Vecna till he kills him/subdues him. Whatever was his plan.

But he needs El to kill Vecna in the first place.

Phone lines blown up? Well they were literally blown up after the shit that took place there. Not that there would have been anyone to answer anyway. Now Mike whining about it before that? I think he lied.

Henry/Vecna/001 and Will meet. Duh. He appeals to Will's kindness and sensitivity and tries to win him over by revealing his powers. Removing Will's soteria maybe?

Meanwhile nobody is aware of Will's powers n him being the Creator God lmao. They think it's veccy/el. Also because they're all separated from Will atp. I think the veccy/will confrontation is gonna be an intimate event and not an open for all soiree.

Maybe it entirely happens in his head. (guesses n wishes whatevs)

By the time everyone does figure out abt Will tho, it's already to late. In that Will and veccy real meet up has happened.

I don't want no fuckall everyone protects Will shit happening, i want his importance to be a twist for ALL. It already isn't for the audience so at least for the characters on the show.

What else? Swear I had many jumbled thoughts n guesses n this is all i can think of right now. Might add to it later.

#byler #stranger things #will byers #vecna/henry/001 #wewe's opinionions

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What exactly is piggyback?(/gen /strange)

So like this is a question and well whatever the hell I'm thinking about piggyback and just in general the logistics of S4 battles.

Rambly. Not even trying not to be.

So. So far when El has "fought" monsters it's been physically. She was in their presence. RU/UD.

For piggyback she is fighting vecna in a middle plane. Okay how?

She resuscitated Max also while not being physically present there.

She only made herself visible to Will before in S1 in the void. And afaik he is the only one who could actually interact with her in the void apart from the demogorgon. So maybe we can say anyone connected to the hivemind can break into the void and set up 2 way comms. Also Terry. But she could herself also void walk I'm supposing.

An outlier is Heather. Who says help me and is then taken under into a bottomless bathtub. (Probably showing her getting sucked by the mind flayer journey) But how did she see El? Or did she see her precisely cuz she was mid turning? Then why did El not see Billy around? Maybe he wasn't. Also El never sees the flesh monster in the void. Always face to not face.

In other cases it's El being a spectator. There was the one line about Mike "sensing" her in the void. But it is neither here nor there. He was holding a walkie. He did say Eleven before she said Mike but I'm still unsure of how much relevance that has. GENUINELY. Clueless.

Her and veccy have a mind fight which affects her physically while vecna himself is not affected physically until the Hawkins crew molotovs his ass and shoots him. He does FEEL pain in his mind lair through the hive mind but physically he's still doing aerial yoga until the crew double fries him.

Also seen in s2 that what happens to the hive mind can affect you in that in can make you feel pain but it does not PHYSICALLY harm you. Everyone burns you feel the burn but you don't actually burn. As they were trynna get the shadow particles out oh his body. They first try to boil him or whatever. But b4 that he felt pain when the military/police burned the vines n he fell on the field. Now towards the end. The vine burning started way before the shadow monster was out of Will and it seemed like it got out once the tunnels started burning. Which begs the question why was Will boiled at all? Or why did his paladin not give a fuck after making a whole show and dance about how if the hivemind dies will dies. Which again. Makes no sense. Cuz Will's still in there? So either you wait for the monster to detach itself fully before you start burning the tunnels or it does not matter and the monster would've left anyway. Did not save Will from any pain AT ALL.

Mike went in to save his bbygal El. Sorry but Will was not even on his mind. He wanted to be a hero. As he usually does and if he doesn't get to do that he gets pissy. But bro your soulmate or whatever could've died. Hoes before other hoes I guess.

Anyway. Back to the piggyback. Veccy started losing his hold on the hivemind after a multipronged multinational attack on the hivemind. And El too blasted him with the power of turu lob. But it was only when he was flambed and tandoored and flung like a rumali roti was he physically damaged. (Not destroyed tho cuz of his trace mineral rich diet in the UD)

So now another question. I've lost track. How tf did El restart Max's heart in the void? Max was not even present mentally. Deadest of dead. N then through the void here comes El giving her life because.... because.... erm .... hea.....

Also unrelated. Did max not lose her eyes cuz El blasted Veccy off before he could perform the world's worst lobotomy? Or? What's the difference? Since that's the last/2nd last in the sequence. Even her jaw is spared. So I guess yeah he was interrupted. He could take her life but not her jawline.

Sooooo. Any help is appreciated.

#not re-read #byler #stranger things #henry/vecna/001 #el hopper #will byers #wewe's soapbox #wewe's opinionions

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LMAO at this ⬆️ not bringing up any memories of this ⬇️

But this ⬆️ bringing up memories of this ⬇️

Because it is not just the lines. Mike Brenner parallel(s) (hate that word) is not that simple here. El already started thinking back to her lab the moment she bopped Angela and there was blood and a crowd watching her disapprovingly. Will wasn't looking at her with pride or adoration, mind you. He looked way more scared, in fact. Mike just voiced his shock and upset. So while, yes, the following scene is of Brenner asking her the same, it's not about Mike being an asshole (some people feel he should've patted her on the back I guess) but El herself coming to that conclusion. What did you do ➡️ you think I'm a monster too is a leap of judgement from El because she's half remembering shit from her past and the words thrown at her at school aren't helping. Mike wasn't scared when she's hurt people before lmao. Not once. Not even the first time it happened in front of him. It was OBVIOUSLY a stupid thing to do at that point as seen by her following arrest.

El's monster vs superhero dichotomy is a result of her own insecurities (starting right at the lab) and her own reliance on powers for everything. She must feel incomplete and less than ordinary without them. Her powers were a justification for her isolation her "weirdness" as the show likes to say, but without those (they're just like an arm or a leg to El atp she's never known a different life) she's a nobody because she's not a superhero. The solution to El and the others having to let go of the superhero epithet bestowed upon her is not her loss of powers or trying to think of her as a girl without those, but to think of the superpowers as just any other part of her body. To someone like me who's been wearing glasses since before I started losing my milk teeth people with free vision possess what I feel is a superpower. An ability I don't possess. But I am not making that their whole personality or even finding that to be what's cool about them. In a similar vein her friends and family that are aware about these abilities of her have to treat them as just something she has and they don't. Free vision, an extra finger, Dustin's ability to be neatly folded into a bag, Lucas' athleticism. It's not EVERYTHING but it's not nothing. I do not feel that is what's happening rn. I do not think Mike is obsessed with her superhero-ness ONLY. He uses it as a compliment to boost her like he does with Dustin. But the point is he just has to cool it down on the super. This got rambly but my point is, the above scene is about El or El and Brenner and maybe Mike and El because El made that connection with other things in consideration. But WE ARE NOT supposed to make it about Mike and Brenner. Mike is not feeding into her superhero identity anymore than Hopper, Joyce, Max and the others are. It's her own internal struggle. "You think I'm a monster, too" came at a low point in El's struggles at Cali where she was 100% being defensive and self-pitying and accidentally ended up uncovering Mike's own lies (by omission). [This is not about the monotonologue at the end. That's a whole different thing.]

#byler #wewe's st re watch #stranger things #mike wheeler #el hopper #martin brenner #papa #wewe's opinionions #did I just say something nice about mike? #yes cuz there are nice things about him without y'all having to make up shit

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Close Phonegate

Coming out as a "phone theory doesn't hold up" cvnt.

Mail can be easily intercepted. They're not even mailing to a P.O. Box or a different address and then picking up the mail from there. Pretty sure phone tappers have resources to check if mail is going from Wheeler residence to a California address repeatedly after a certain address in Hawkins got rid of certain occupants.

They literally got away with receiving mail from Soviet Russia. Lmao.

Also, the theory is ONLY El's not getting on the phone but the others are. So assuming the phone's are being tapped, Joyce's convo with Murray was overheard and ignored? It's on the same phone. Wow.

Jane got into the system on arrest. But not on admission to school? She just got into the hands of people who wanted her on arrest. Easily. That's all.

As pointed out to me Max (and others) know the Byers' number. So they have used it before? Max. The sister of Billy. Involved in the mall fire that wasn't.

Why is only Mike whining about it? Nancy was too to Robin. But that was AFTER all THAT. (She says to Robin Jonathan gave a "mumbly Jonathan reason" for not coming to Hawkins for spring break and "and NOW I can't find out why, because apparently he's blown up his family's house phone or something" S4E6: The Dive). Mumbly has to be on phone. Which means there was nothing insidious about Mike not getting through before. He just was calling at the wrong time, if he was. For El. Cuz if he was getting through to El on supercom, he just had to ask her to pass it on to Will.

The theory exists to mollify Mike haters. Unnecessary. He IS undoubtedly going through shit without making it seem like technology failed him. He had pen and paper. He was avoiding Will. He had reasons. He's not an asshole just cuz. Give him some credit.

Also, the theory really waters down the importance of why the calls started not going through on either end once El was arrested.

Because they were not being tapped before.

Also Mike did call Will a couple of times. So it is specifically a recent development. The phone not getting through AT ALL. Landlines are attached to addresses. And no one can predict who picks up the phone when. So it'll have to be a blanket disconnection.

I have a different theory for why the phone may have stopped getting through when it did. But need to sit on it a little more.

Nothing gay about it though.

#cuz the other post not showing on the fuckin tag #byler #stranger things #wewe's opinionions