#welsh sheepdog

[zukitz]

Dogs!

#dogs #doggust #samoyed #old english sheepdog #poodle #pembroke welsh corgi #afghan hound #german shepherd #irish wolfhound

[fyanimaldiversity]

Domestic dogs displaying a specific piebald pattern called Irish markings: white on the legs, neck, face, chest, and tail tip.

Red basenji [mine]

Fawn Portuguese podengo [x]

Brindle bull terrier [x]

Black Cardigan Welsh corgi [x]

Blue border collie [x]

Sable Shetland sheepdog [x]

Blue merle border collie [x]

Tricolor bull terrier [x]

Red tricolor chihuahua [x]

#piebald #selective breeding #domestic dog #dog #canis lupus familiaris #canine #mammal #was this an excuse to share my favorite picture of my late dog Nala? #yes #yes it is #basenji #bull terrier #border collie #chihuahua #shetland sheepdog #Portuguese podengo #cardigan welsh corgi

[kelsterlynn]

Part 2 of 2 of me frickin' doing all 31 days of #Doggust2023 in one day. (Under 4 hours!)

Because I only had 4 hours to work, each drawing took about 5-7 minutes each so that I could meet the deadline. So, this became more like an intensive art assignment than anything.

But I did it! I won!! (Some better than others, but a definite improvement throughout the full challenge.)

Each image has a description that gives a brief idea of my thought and design process for this challenge as the minutes ticked by. (So maybe you should click on them, I dunno...)

#doggust #doggust2023 #doggust all stars #my art #art challenge #dogs #basset hound #chihuahua #pitbull #jack russell terrier #french bulldog #samoyed #english sheepdog #poodle #pembroke welsh corgi #corgi #afghan hound #german shepherd #irish wolfhound #siberian husky #dachshund #borzoi

[pixel-paws]

#Nintendogs #Nintendogs + Cats #Shetland Sheepdog #Boxer #Pembroke Welsh Corgi #virtual pet #vpet #nostalgia

[beauceronn]

Pt 1

#dog show #dogblr #beauceron #pharaoh hound #miniature american shepherd #icelandic sheepdog #pomeranian #glen of imaal terrier #nova scotia duck tolling retriever #chesapeake bay retriever #great pyrenees #pembroke welsh corgi

[myartwonderland]

Blodwen as a puppy

#artists on tumblr #digital painting #painting #ipad #marie perrott #art set #puppy #Welsh #sheepdog #Blodwen #cute

[becausegoodheroesdeservekidneys]

I didn't know corgi was a welsh word 😯🌟🐶 Can you tell more dog names in welsh?

It's a Welsh breed! Pair of breeds, actually - the little cute one from Pembrokeshire that looks like it belongs on a twee greetings card with a duckling on its head, and the big Carmarthenshire one that looks like it is straining every second of every day not to hunt down a cow and slaughter it. Funnily enough, America has gone feral for corgis, but here in Wales you don't often see pet ones. They don't have the temperament for pet life. I assume it's maybe a working-line Vs pet-line thing, but here their reputation is that they are snappy and aggressive if they aren't very, very carefully raised and handled.

The correct plural is corgwn, btw. Enjoy this knowledge.

Other Welsh breeds with Welsh names:

Llamgi Cymreig - the Welsh springer spaniel. 'Spaniel' is actually Sbaengi, meaning 'Spain dog', so cognate with the English, but llamgi is 'jumping/springing dog'.

Daeargi Cymreig - the Welsh terrier. Daeargi means 'earth dog', because of the traditional chasing things into setts and warrens thing. The Sealyham terrier is daeargi Sealyham, so same thing

And, Ci Defaid Cymreig - the Welsh sheepdog, pretty literal

And then non-Welsh breeds are varyingly named along similar lines. Sbaengi adara - the cocker spaniel (lit 'bird Spain dog'). Sbaengi hela - the English Springer (lit 'hunting Spain dog'). Sbaengi Siarl - the King Charles spaniel (lit 'Charles' Spain dog')

Ci defaid is generically used for collie or sheepdog.

Terriers there are many! I pulled these off of Bruce:

Black-&-tan terrier - daeargi melyn a du (yellow and black earth dog)

Bull-terrier - daeargi tarw

Cairn terrier - daeargi byrgoes (shortleg earth dog)

Fox terrier is fun, it gets DIALECTS. Daeargi/ci codi llwynog (fox-raising earth dog/dog) in the North, ci codi cadno (fox-raising dog) in the South

Irish terrier - daeargi Gwyddelig

Maltese terrier - daeargi Melita

Scotch terrier - daeargi Albanaidd/Sgotaidd

Skye terrier - daeargi Heledd (who is Heledd???)

Toy terrier - corddaeargim (dwarf earth dog! The 'cor' is the same as in corgi)

Yorkshire terrier - daeargi Efrog (York earth dog)

Let's see, what else... Um, adargi is 'retriever' - bird dog, literally. Golden retriever is adargi melyn (yellow bird dog)

Poodle is just pwdl. Cymricised transliteration, innit

My brain won't think of any more dogs, sorry. HMU if you have a specific one lol

#asks #in my defence there are Many Dogs #animalia #linguistics #WALES! #closed for cleaning on mondays

[clouseplayssims]

Breeds For All Needs Update

If the GoS theme this month wasn't a sign that I needed to get back to my Breeds For All Needs project I don't know what is!

Now for those of you who DON'T know what this is - essentially I wanted to remake all of the breeds from TS1-TS4. I also linked existing pet breeds by other creators when I found ones I liked. And then I got distracted and forgot about it.

As a refresher, here's a complete list with links to those I have already completed - please note some of these breeds I -have- done but part of the project is including links to other creators so I haven't made the official post yet:

Large Dogs

Afghan Hound (TS1; TS3; TS4) Airedale Terrier (TS2; TS3; TS4) Akita (TS2; TS3; TS4) Alaskan Malamute (TS3; TS4) American Eskimo Dog (includes small version) (TS3; TS4) American Foxhound (TS2; TS3) American Staffordshire Terrier (TS2 - as AmStaff; TS3) Anatolian Shepherd Dog Australian Cattle Dog (TS2; TS3; TS4) Australian Shepherd (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Bernese Mountain Dog (TS3; TS4) Black & Tan Coonhound (TS2 - as Black & Tan; TS3; TS4) Black Mouth Cur (TS4) Black Russian Terrier (TS4) Bloodhound (TS3; TS4) Bluetick Coonhound (TS3; TS4) Border Collie (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Borzoi (TS2; TS3; TS4) Boxer (TS2; TS3; TS4) Brittany (TS2; TS3; TS4) Bull Terrier (TS2; TS4) Bull Mastiff (TS2 - as Bullmastiff; TS3; TS4 - as Bullmastiff) Canaan Dog (TS2; TS3 - as Canaan; TS4 - as Canaan) Chesapeake Bay Retriever (TS2 - as Chessie; TS3; TS4) Chow Chow (TS2 - as Chowchow; TS3; TS4) Chow-Lab Mix (TS2; TS3; TS4) Collie (TS2 - rough collie version; TS3 - rough collie version; TS4 - rough collie version) Curly Coated Retriever (TS2; TS3; TS4) Dalmatian (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Doberman Pinscher (TS2; TS3; TS4) English Foxhound (TS2; TS3; TS4) English Setter (TS3; TS4) Foxhound (TS4) German Shepherd (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) German Shorthaired Pointer (TS2; TS3; TS4 - as German Pointer) German Spitz (TS4) Giant Schnauzer (TS2; TS3; TS4) Golden Retriever (TS2; TS3; TS4) Golden Doodle (TS2 - as Goldendoodle; TS3; TS4 - as Goldendoodle) Great Dane (TS2; TS3; TS4) Great Pyrenees (TS3; TS4) Greyhound (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Ibizan Hound (TS3; TS4) Icelandic Sheepdog (TS4) Irish Red and White Setter (TS3; TS4) Irish Setter (TS1 - as Setter; TS3; TS4) Irish Terrier (TS3; TS4) Irish Wolfhound (TS2; TS3; TS4) Keeshond (TS2; TS3; TS4) Kerry Blue Terrier (TS2; TS3; TS4) Labradinger (TS2; TS3) Labradoodle (TS2; TS3; TS4) Labrador Retriever (TS1; TS2 - as Black Lab, Chocolate Lab, Yellow Lab; TS4) Mastiff (TS2; TS3) Newfoundland (TS2; TS3; TS4) Norsk Elk Shepherd (TS2; TS3; TS4) Norwegian Buhund (TS4) Old English Sheepdog (TS3; TS4) Otterhound (TS3; TS4) Pharaoh Hound (TS3; TS4) Pit Bull Terrier (TS2; TS3; TS4 - as Pit Bull) Pointer (TS2; TS3; TS4) Polish Lowland Sheepdog (TS3; TS4) Poodle (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Portuguese Water Dog (TS4) Redbone Coonhound (TS2; TS3; TS4) Rhodesian Ridgeback (TS3; TS4) Rottweiler (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Saint Bernard (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Saluki (TS2) Samoyed (TS2; TS3; TS4) Shar Pei (TS1 - as Sharpei; TS4) Siberian Husky (TS1 - as Husky; TS2 - as Husky; TS3; TS4) Standard Schnauzer (TS4) Tibetan Mastiff (TS3; TS4) Vizsla (TS3; TS4) Weimaraner (TS2; TS3; TS4) Welsh Springer Spaniel (TS3; TS4) Wheaten Terrier (TS3; TS4) Whippet (TS2; TS3; TS4)

Small Dogs

American Cocker Spaniel (TS2 - as Spaniel; TS3 - as Cocker Spaniel; TS4 - as Cocker Spaniel) American Eskimo Dog Basenji (TS2; TS3; TS4) Beagle (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Bedlington Terrier (TS3; TS4) Bichon Frise (TS3; TS4) Black Russian Terrier (TS2; TS3) Bocker (TS2; TS3; TS4) Boston Terrier (TS2; TS3; TS4) Bull Terrier (TS1; TS3 - twice, once as Pitbull) Cairn Terrier (TS1; TS3 - as Highland Terrier) Cardigan Welsh Corgi (TS3; TS4) Cavalier King Charles Spaniel (TS3; TS4 - as King Charles Spaniel) Chihuahua (Long) (TS2) Chihuahua (Smooth) (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Cockapoo (TS4) Dachshund (TS3; TS4) English Bulldog (TS1 - as Bulldog; TS2; TS3 - as Bull Dog; TS4 - as Bulldog) English Cocker Spaniel (TS3; TS4) English Springer Spaniel (TS1; TS3 - as a large dog; TS4) English Toy Spaniel (TS3; TS4) Field Spaniel (TS3 - as a large dog; TS4) French Bulldog (TS2; TS3; TS4) Havanese (TS3; TS4) Italian Greyhound (TS2; TS3; TS4) Jack Russell Terrier (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Lhasa Apso (TS4) Maltese (TS4) Miniature Bull Terrier (TS2) Miniature Pinscher (TS3; TS4) Miniature Poodle (TS1; TS2; TS3 - as Poodle; TS4) Miniature Schnauzer (TS2; TS3; TS4) Papillon (TS3; TS4) Parson Russell Terrier (TS3 - as large dog; TS4) Pekingese (TS3; TS4) Pembroke Welsh Corgi (TS3; TS4) Pomeranian (TS3; TS4) Pug (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Puggle (TS2; TS3; TS4) Schipperke (TS2; TS3; TS4) Schnoodle (TS2; TS3; TS4) Scottish Terrier (TS1; TS3; TS4) Shetland Sheepdog (TS3; TS4) Shiba Inu (TS2; TS3; TS4) Shih Tzu (TS3; TS4) Silky Terrier (TS3; TS4) Smooth Fox Terrier (TS2; TS3; TS4) Staffordshire Bull Terrier (TS2; TS3 - as large dog; TS4) Toy Fox Terrier (TS3; TS4) Welsh Corgi (TS1) West Highland White Terrier (TS3 - as West Highland Terrier; TS4) Wire Fox Terrier (TS3; TS4) Yorkshire Terrier (TS3; TS4)

Cats

Abyssinian (TS2; TS3; TS4) American Bobtail (TS3; TS4) American Longhair (TS3; TS4) American Shorthair (TS1 - as Brown Tabby, Orange Tabby, Tortoiseshell; TS2 - as Shorthair Tabby, Tuxedo Cat; TS3 - also as Black Cat, Shorthair Tabby, Tuxedo; TS4 - also as Black Cat, Tabby, Tuxedo) American Wirehair (TS4) Balinese (TS2; TS3; TS4) Bengal (TS3; TS4) Birman (TS2; TS3; TS4) Bombay (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) British Shorthair (TS1 - as Silver Tabby British Shorthair; TS2; TS3; TS4) British Longhair (TS3; TS4) Burmese (TS2; TS3; TS4) Calico (TS1 - as Calico, Calico - Black, Calico - Red; TS2; TS3; TS4) Chatreux (TS2; TS3; TS4) Colorpoint Shorthair (TS3; TS4) Cornish Rex (TS3; TS4) Devon Rex (TS3; TS4) Egyptian Mau (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Exotic Shorthair (TS2) German Rex (TS3; TS4) Havana Brown (TS2; TS3; TS4) Himalayan (TS2; TS3; TS4) Japanese Bobtail (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Javanese (TS3; TS4) Korat (TS3; TS4) Kurilian Bobtail (TS3; TS4) La Perm (TS3; TS4) Lykoi (TS4) Maine Coon (TS1 - as Maine Coone; TS2; TS3; TS4) Manx (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Norwegian Forest (TS2; TS3; TS4) Ocicat (TS2; TS3; TS4) Oriental Shorthair (TS2; TS3; TS4) Oriental Longhair (TS4) Persian (TS1 - as Perisan, Bi-Color Persian; TS2; TS3; TS4) Ragdoll (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Russian Blue (TS2; TS3; TS4) Savannah (TS3; TS4) Scottish Fold (TS2; TS3; TS4) Siamese (TS1; TS2; TS3; TS4) Siberian (TS2; TS3; TS4) Singapura (TS2; TS3; TS4) Somali (TS3; TS4) Sphynx (TS1; TS4) Tonkinese (TS2; TS3; TS4) Turkish Angora (TS2 - as Turkish Agora; TS3; TS4) Turkish Van (TS1)

Bonus

Albino (TS1) Cheetah (TS1) Dingo (TS3; TS4) Fox (TS4) Pink Poodle (TS1) Raccoon (TS4) Robot Cat (TS1) Robot Dog (TS1) Star Dalmatian (TS2) Tiger (TS1) Turkish Blue (TS1)

#breeds for all needs

[themuseumwithoutwalls]

MWW Artwork of the Day (11/17/23) Kyffin Williams (Welsh, 1918-2006) Farmers on the Carneddau (c. 1980) Oil on canvas Amgueddfa Cymru/National Museum Wales, Cardiff UK

Kyffin Williams was a Welsh painter best known for his depictions of the Welsh countryside, shepherds and their sheepdogs, livestock, and small villages. Williams’ paintings are primarily made with impasto palette knife marks and few brushstrokes, employing a limited palette consisting of gray and subtle greens that emanate the color found in the rocks and foliage of Wales.

#british artist

[demigoddessqueens]

Sorry for the late reply I was busy. anyway I saw your bird thing it gave me the idea. How would Edward, Ezio, and Jacob reacted to be transformed into dogs (by accident) and the reader (their friend,) looks at a stick and starts chuckling saying "I'm not going to do it, but right now its very tempting,"

🤣🤣🤣🤭

Ezio

An Italian greyhound with energy to burn so per favore, please throw the stick so he can fetch back and forth to his heart’s content

Edward

He’s either a Pembroke Welsh Corgi or Welsh sheepdog, and if you throw said stick he’s just gonna grab it and keep running until you get him

Jacob

Full English bulldog who’s playful 😈, throw the stick and sure he’ll come back but also wants you to chase him as well

#assassin’s creed #inbox request #ezio auditore de firenze #edward kenway #jacob frye #ezio auditore #dog au #assassins creed headcanons

[pixel-paws]

#Nintendogs #Nintendogs + Cats #Pembroke Welsh Corgi #Shetland Sheepdog #Boxer #virtual pet #vpet #nostalgia

[canisitsnotlupus]

The Welsh Hillman, the oldest Welsh dog breed (older than the Corgi), sadly went extinct due to complacency in the last part of the 20th century. Used for herding and droving the Welsh Hillman dog may have been the descendant of the old gellgi or "Welsh wolfhounds" - these dogs may even have pre-dated the Romans but no solid evidence exists sadly. It may even have been crossbred with north african dogs in following centuries but again, solid evidence is lacking. It was a large but rangy dog, up to around 25 inches in height, and described as "fast and fearless", with an appearance not unlike a lighter-built German Shepherd. The ears were pricked. The coat was usually of a light fawn, sandy or red-gold colour with a black saddle, white chest, white on the legs and tip of the tail and a blaze on the face. (the odd Blue merle existed too). The breed was already close to extinction as a working dog by the 1940s as the increasingly fashionable border collie was replacing it. This fashion almost pushed the Welsh sheepdog to extinction as well. Farmers were therefore no longer breeding the unique Welsh Hillman dog breed. The last known Welsh hillman dog, "Jess", was purchased in 1974 from a hill farm near Y Gelli Gandryll (Hay-on-Wye) by a BBC producer and author from London called Jeanine McMullen. She had moved to Wales to escape the ratrace and publish books on "living a good life" with countryside traditions. Sadly the last of a countryside tradition was spayed before her owner realised her rarity. Source: https://www.facebook.com/CymruRydd/posts/pfbid0ANH8vrdnL3E2Tr3oSD3UcgRKmiaEYsNah75gHXtj1QnmYypBVjvDEyrL8m24u1Uzl

#welsh hillman #i think about this breed ALL the time #dogs #dog

[poop4u]

Snoozy boi (Welsh Sheepdog) on the sofa after a good walk.

#meme #dogmeme #funny #doglover #poop4u #dog #dogs #pet #pets #cute dog #my doggo #dogphotography #d

[cannibalcaprine]

Wait what breed of dog am I? Because the only breed my little brother said is "abomination"

hmmmmmmmm

Welsh sheepdog

[clockworkcourier]

BASICS

FULL NAME → Rhion Dafydd Owens

NICKNAME/CALLSIGN → "Dancer" by SAS personnel; "Bwlyn" by his mom and older sisters

AGE → [REDACTED] (Older than 40)

BIRTHDAY → July 9th

SPECIES → Human

NATIONALITY → Welsh

GENDER → Cisgender male

ORIENTATION → Bisexual

AFFILIATION(S) → SAS, SpecGru, Task Force 141 (sometimes)

OCCUPATION(S) → SAS Lieutenant, specialist in hostile environment warfare (mountain, desert)

THREAT LEVEL → Deceptively high

SPOKEN LANGUAGES →  English, Welsh, French, some Arabic

APPEARANCE

FACECLAIM → Trystan Gravelle

EYE COLOR(S) → Hazel-brown

HAIR COLOR(S) → Black, going gray

DOMINANT HAND → Right

ACCENT → Strong Welsh accent, but excellent dialect mimic

HEIGHT → 6'0"

WEIGHT → 210 lbs

BODY BUILD → Build like a weight lifter, muscular torso and forearms, fairly husky

TATTOO(S) → Large Mari Lwyd tattoo on left forearm, Welsh Dragon on his right shoulder, SAS symbol on his right forearm, secret ankle tattoo he shares with Ghost from one drunken escapade (a pickle wearing sunglasses and riding on a skateboard)

PIERCING(S) → Each ear pierced once, healed dick piercing also from a drunken escapade

GLASSES → No

SCARS → Very, very many; most prominent is his above-the-knee amputation of his right leg

OTHER → Prosthetic right leg

BACKGROUND

HOMETOWN → Trecastle, Powys, Wales

FINANCIAL STATUS → Born working class, now fairly middle class

EDUCATION LEVEL → Began undergrad studies in Cardiff but dropped out

RAP SHEET → Nothing officially on file anymore

PRISON TIME → Only arrested once for public drunkenness

RELATIONSHIPS

BIRTH ORDER → Youngest of seven total children

PARENTS → Andrew Owens (father, estranged); Ellen Davies (mother)

SIBLINGS → Morgan, Lucy, Gwen, Meredith, Sian, Megan

FAMILY → Dafydd Owens (maternal grandfather)

SIGNIFICANT OTHER(S) → Various throughout the years, but nothing super serious

CHILDREN → None (he thinks)

ENEMIES → Probably many

PETS → 12 year old Border Collie named Millie

VICES

SMOKES → Yes

DRINKS → Yes

DRUGS → Marijuana

VIOLENCE → You bet

SELF DESTRUCTIVE → Nope

PSYCHOLOGY

MENTAL → CPTSD, anxiety

PHYSICAL → Prosthetic right leg

ANGER EXPRESSION → Bottles it up and pretends everything is fine, then unleashes it somewhere else later

ALIGNMENT → Chaotic good

PERSONALITY TRAITS → Friendly, warm, excitable, generous, quick to laugh, mercurial, secretive, eager, curious, protective

MISC

SIN → Lust

ZODIAC → Cancer

ELEMENT → Water

SEX PREFERENCE → Dom, but will happily be a switch

ANIMAL → Sheepdog

MUTATION/SUPER POWER → Telepathy

POST APOC. → Friendly soldier

#oc: rhion dancer owens #cod oc

[bestinsucc]

Welcome to the first ever Succession Dog Show

Contestants have been split into seven groups for the first of three rounds. The second round will have the same groups, with just the top three from the first round. Then the winner of each group will move on to the final round‚ which will also include special guest Mondale Roy. Also, Marcia is the judge because <3 and I say so.

In each group there are five succession characters plus three more normal dogs because I didn’t think five was enough and also I think it’s funny that it’s a possibility that none of the characters make it to the final round.

These polls all will last 1 week‚ closing and opening on Sundays.

Here are the Round 1 polls:

Herding Group

Hound Group

Non-Sporting Group

Sporting Group

Terrier Group

Toy Group

Working Group

+ tag to just scroll through them

character lists are below the cut

(normal non-succession character dogs are italicized)

Herding

Boggle the German Shepherd

Willa the Corgi

Naomi the Icelandic Sheepdog

Turbo the Border Collie

Sandy the Australian Cattle Dog

Sandi the Belgian Tervuren

Charlotte the Beauceron

Karolina the Norwegian Buhund

Hound

Lily the Beagle

Sweetpea the Dachsund

Kendall the Basset Hound

Matsson the Basenji

Ebba the Norwegian Elkhound

Greg the Borzoi

Buster the Bluetick Coonhound

Nate the Harrier

Non-Sporting

Laird the Bulldog

Frank the Boston Terrier

Roman the Bichon Frisé

Cici the Dalmatian

Cyd the Lhasa Apso

Fancy the Chow Chow

Louis the Tibetan Terrier

Stewy the Tibetan Spaniel

Sporting

Salmon the Golden Retriever

Jeryd the Weimeraner

Angel the Irish Setter

Karl the Spinone Italiano

Murphy the Clumber Spaniel

Connor the Wirehaired Vizsla

Jess the Curly-Coated Retriever

Tabitha the American Water Spaniel

Terrier

Lawrence Yee the Scottish Terrier

Peanut the Soft-Coated Wheaten Terrier

Ewan the Cairn Terrier

Kerry the American Staffordshire Terrier

Hank the Smooth Fox Terrier (poll says Wire‚ but it’s actually Smooth)

Rhea the Welsh Terrier

Caroline the Manchester Terrier

Mozart the Bedlington Terrier

Toy

Tom the Toy Poodle

Atlas the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel

Earl the Shih Tzu

Shiv the Chihuahua

Dixie the Pug

Nan the Maltese

Marianne the Miniature Pinscher

Hugo the Brussels Griffon

Working

Colin the Rottweiler

Gerri the Doberman Pinscher

Butterfly the Cane Corso

Rava the Great Dane

Kermit the Siberian Husky

Annie the Newfoundland

Logan the Greater Swiss Mountain Dog

Gil the Black Russian Terrier

#links will go up once I post the polls. #hang on I’m having trouble with hyperlinking it. #succession #best in succ #bracket poll #< is it a bracket? idk. #also I’ll actually put the characters down in a sec hold on #shit i forgot to do the alt text for all the poll images. well it was just gonna say that it’s the same thing as listed.