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kendrixtermina · 4 years

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The Team Dynamics of the Three Houses

Essay time! =D

Part One: Team Makeup and Thematic Framework Blue Lions

Overarching Theme: Classic basic fantasy archetypes but with a dark twist (We have Prince Charming/ Guilt-ridden softboy standard-issue JRPG protagonist, Handsome Lech/Idiot Friend, Standoffish Rival, Gentleman Thief, Lady Knight, Sweet nice healer, Adorable spellcaster Girl, the Gentle Giant etc. )

Composition: Has the most people with crests, and the one guy with a naturally occurring major crest. Foreshadows how the crest obsession is particularly bad here, due to Faerghus’ harsh environment and a society that’s both religious and has a serious element of hero worship

History: Notably the most tight-knit group. Everyone knows each other already. It’s basically Dimitri, Dimitri’s longtime best friends, the daughter of Dimitri’s former instructor who heard lots of stories about him and her super nice BFF who gets along with everyone... and Ashe, who didn’t know the others until the academy, but since he is a honest sweety who loves cooking and knight stories, he hits it off with the others right away.

Atmosphere: Everyone has kind of the same hobbies (cooking, handicrafts, weapons collecting, knight stuff) and a lot of history, some posters have remarked on missing the “family ambiente” in the other routes but since the bonds are stronger they’re also more charged, it’s also been said that it’s the group with the most inter-team drama, especially when you feature in their relatives - You have Dimitri’s whole character arc, all the family drama between the Fraldariuses and the Dominics, Ingrid’s hangups regarding poor Dedue etc.

As expected if you recruit any of them they’ll kinda have a hard time going after their old home, even the tsundere ones.

The Leader’s position: For all that Dimitri’s friends refuse to drop his honorifics they really are his friends. They’re just all kinda polite with the obvious exception of Felix, and he’s largely tsundere. Despite the afore mentioned drama we see plenty of Dimitri just hanging out with his friends and even coming to them for help, he’s really just one of the bunch .

Since Faerghus is in chaos everyone’s pinning a lot of hopes on Dimitri and it’s not like he’s completely unaware of that or doesn’t have the corresponding sense of duty, he’s always torn between that and his revenge plan which eventually just takes over. He pursues this entirely on his own, too, with not even Dedue knowing what he’s sneaking around the library for.

How this “flavors” part one: Gives it a very “personal” touch. Faerghus, it’s culture, recent past and current state of chaos are fleshed out a lot (we learn plenty about the Alliance and the Empire but Claude and Edelgard have greater scope plans) and since a lot of the part I missions concern the instabilities in the kingdom they affect the characters directly. Basically since they’re more “regular” fantasy protagonists we gotta hit em all with the Drama hammer to keep things fresh. And that’s how it continues - They follow Dimitri because of personal loyalty (both toward him specifically, and because it’s in their culture), and Dimitri just wants to protect (or avenge) the people he cares about.

How this Ties into The Themes: The Kingdom route eventually becomes very much a Power of Friendship story where they all stick it out with Dimitri in his time of need because he’s their friend and they want to be there for him and that makes a lot more sense if there was a big emphasis on friendship/ found family before that, and of course their friendship is what eventually helps him turn his life around.

How does Byleth fit into this: Dimitri, like Hubert and Leonie, can be filed into the box of those who aren’t immediately awed by their heroic charisma. He doesn’t really get people who aren’t as outwardly expressive as him (eg. Edelgard) But unlike, say, Leonie, Dimitri has no settings between crushkilldestroy and stilted politeness and seldom expresses or responds to overt hostility most of the time. On the one hand there’s a side to him that’s a bit judgemental and vindictive, but that extends to himself too so he’s very ashamed of his flaws and is afraid that he won’t be accepted, so he projects outward that same acceptance that he likes to receive.

So the end result is that he goes out of his way to befriend Byleth, he encourages everyone to speak with them in a familiar manner, insists that they join the victory celebrations etc. Then of course he gets to see that they’re actually quite supportive and so in time they become, as Dimitri puts it “the heart of the group”.

By the time they find out that Dimitri ever disliked them, that’s long past. He’s a very high-empathy, emotional person so once he likes you he really likes you and will regard your troubles like his own. Some ppl might say that maybe the bond feels more special since it took longer to “earn”. He’s practically ready to swear a blood oath with them once Jeralt dies. There’s an unappreciated Symmetry here like he goes through the trouble to ‘defrost’ them, and then they return the favor by supporting him through his difficult times when they perhaps get to see the ugliest side of him.

Further Dynamic Notes:

So you have a dynamic of working past/ understanding and accepting each other despite one’s flaws and differences. (whereas Claude and Edelgard are interested in Byleth right away, because they’re unusual, but in slightly different ways - Claude can kinda relate to the experience of sticking out itself but is still stumped by being unable to read them, whereas Edelgard sticks out in the same way so you’re actually on the same wavelenght to begin with)

“opposites attract” specifically in the way that they balance each other out. A cool steadfast leader type certainly has a grounding effect on Dimitri as a very reactive person, but he also pulls them into the ‘normal’ world a bit after they spend all this time just wandering the world like all places are the same to them. They basically put the magic destiny on the backburner to help him out. They still become archbishop and all to fit the standard fantasy look of it all but not like full messiah like on the church route

Even after the timeskip Byleth kinda plays the mentor role or at least that of the dominant person/ big spoon in the relationship (though Dimitri ends up waaay taler than them especially fem Byleth), “Excuse me this is my emotional support mercenary”

If you go the platonic route you very much stay at „mentor“, Byleth is basically the brains of the operation post timeskip ‘cause the old Mitya can‘t come to the phone right now and Gilbert and Rodrigue would follow him off a cliff

Plot wise, their contribution is to stop the revenge trip when it gets to be a too obvious kamikaze stunt, which they, as a relative outsider to Faerghus and experienced, pragmatic fighter, would do when someone like Gilbert would not

Character journey wise, they refuse to give up on Dimitri and still see the good in him so that he eventually comes to a point where he could envision his own redemption/ come to accept/forgive himself and learn that its okay to move on and live his own life

Byleth can be said to somewhat even out the flaws in everyone‘s leadership styles (while the house leaders help Byleth find their own direction – i didnt come up with this alone there was a brilliant post a while ago that i cant find rn) – In Dimitri‘s case, he has authority/credibility/integrity („Pathos“), being the rightful king with many loyal followers, and emotional/ personal leadership as an emphatetic person who inspired respect for his character („Ethos“) but is lacking in plans („Logos“)

Golden Deer

Overarching Theme: Ragtag Bunch of misfits /Unlikely Heroes (let’s see, we have trickster turned lying politician, upper-class twit turned opportunistic conservative, lazy rich girl, shy glasses boy and his best friend dumb muscle, cursed werewolf girl, stuckup teen genius and the mean money obsessed one )

Composition: Has the most honest-to-goodness commoners - and they largely got in on their own merits, too, while almost all the others had connections. You have a few peeps from the Alliance’s prominent merchant class and one completely ordinary village person whose father was a simple hunter.

History: Bar the two merchant kids none of them know each other and even they’ve been a little estranged since the demise of Rafael’s parents. There are a few backstory connections (Such as Lorenz’ dad basically having murdered everybody’s dead relatives, or Leonie’s village being in his territory) but they’re largely indirect. They come from a range of different backgrounds and life experiences. Even Claude just showed up the year before and doesn’t know anybody. Of course this is all so you can watch them grow into a team on-screen all leading up to Claude’s epic speech about how they got along despite being from different backgrounds (or be surprised if they show up as one post-timeskip)

Unlike Dedue or Hubert, Hilda can still be napped early on because she doesn’t really become Claude’s right-hand person until halfway through part oneIf you recruit any of the deer they’ll say that they didn’t have that much ties to their homeland anyways.

Atmosphere: These are definitely Garreg Magh’s party animals. Or like a bunch of theatre kids. They’re tremendous fun. “Less complicated” as Claude puts it though some have missed the intensity/drama of the other bunches. The Alliance itself might be full of political intrigues but this younger generation is fairly chill with the important exceptions that are Leonie and Lysithea but Leonie’s lack of chill is largely Byleth-specific, she’s plenty chill in her other supports, and though Lysithea probably donated all the extra chill for the other deer and hence doesn’t have any left, the others love her anyways wether she wants to or not because try as she might she can’t really get an argument out of them.

This certainly jives well with Claude’s “friendly surface level extrovert” gimmick they all get along on a surface level and you’ll be hard-pressed to find an ounce of social skills in the Black Eagle house, and the Lions have the Drama Moments, but some have also perceived the deer as not quite as open.

At the same time they’re not superficial. We have a large abundance of Artsy Ones, we have Ignatz, Claude and Lorenz both write poetry, Leonie isn’t good at it but she does draw etc There’s enough insightful ones for depht and insight to be a significant undercurrent in the group dynamics. They all have different sortts of insight - Hilda can read people well, Ignatz has this sort of intuuitive thoughtful understanding, Lysithea is observant and logically astute, Leonie has street smarts etc.

The Leader’s position: Precarious. No one knows him, no one trusts him. He just showed up one day, very suspicious timing, not long after his uncle dropped dead (that was Lorenz’ dad but it’s not like anyone knows) and then he’s a shifty weirdo who cannot help being slightly unnerving despite his friendly extroverted demeanor.

Still he’s a big believer in teamwork, appreciates the value in everyone’s perspective and he can do the friendly extroverted charm well enough to eventually win over most people based on that, though its not until waay after the timeskip that he even considers letting anyone past the soft outer layer. (In Recruited, Raphael remembers him mainly a lover of feats and merriment)

The longer the story goes on the more the Deer transition to being “Claude’s jolly detective bureau” in which he pulls on all their individual insight for maximum info collection.

How this “flavors” part one: It’s taken up largely by Claude’s search for information with the various events being seen in that light.

Claude’s first reaction is often to ask questions and be curious with the emotional response hitting him somewhat later, though it’s definitely also that he keeps up a cheerful face for the team.

Ironically he’s the only one who came to Garreg Magh for it’s intended purpose: To get a ruler’s education and do networking. Dimitri and Edelgard were already onto Thales courtesy of his having killed their families, him searching on his own, her making preparations for her takeover, and Claude doesn’t know - it’s probably a game balance thing because Claude is the smartest person in the game and if he started out with all the info there would be no plot.

How this Ties into The Themes: It all builds towards Claude’s big speech about people from different backgrounds coming together. It’s like a microcosm for what he wants to do with the world, to bring people from different places and backgrounds together and have them understand each other.

Lorenz takes until halfway through part II to come around, but come around he does. (markedly, this happens only on Claude’s route, otherwise he sticks with the empire out of self-preservation and opportunism, though he gladly jumps ship to join the kingdom. )

How does Byleth fit into this: Now I‘ve seen some people saying that Claude initially didn‘t like Byleth or just wanted to use them, but I don‘t think that‘s true. I do think he actually liked them, found them interesting and wanted to befriend them. But Claude, on principle, doesn‘t trust easily, and will in any interaction look at how he can use it.

It‘s a habit born out of both natural curiosity and intelligence (What the 12type eneagramm calls a „Mercury“ Personality type) and the need to survive in a hostile environment where people tried to kill him as a child, and as such it‘s automatic second nature. He has a strong overruling self-preservation instinct. Claude is suspicious and will interogate people completely independent of how much he likes them. No amount of like makes him trust implicitly.

He doesn‘t have a bad impression like Dimitri, but he doesn‘t immediately click like Edelgard and the curve is pretty nonlinear: With Dimitri we have a clear progression from dislike to like and then the reversal where Dimitri had defrosted Byleth and now Byleth must defrost Dimitri. With Edelgard she likes them immediately out of similarity (like Felix likes Byleth, or like Edelgard likes Lysithea and Petra), and the difficulty/drama only comes later when Byleth‘s connection to the church and Edelgard‘s plots become apparent, but mostly she‘s sad that she‘s „destined“ to be enemies with this person she likes, her level of like never goes down. Claude meanwhile – you might compare him with Dorothea. He‘s used to being able to charm people as well as read them, and Byleth is not only a brick wall, but remains one upon closer examination. They really don‘t know about their past – but Claude takes that as evasions and becomes more and more suspicious.

A big turning point here is the Jeralt situation, where Byleth finally opens up and tells him everything, and Claude realizes they‘re not hiding. And that‘s something I really love about their dynamic – Byleth tells him all and Claude is so interested in them and looks out for them.

Though you could assign each of the three a „turning point“ after which they open up - The diary for Claude (which shows him that Byleth really isn‘t hiding anything) Flayn‘s dissapearance for Dimitri (which convinces him that Byleth cares) and the holy tomb scene for Edelgard (which shows her that Byleth won‘t betray her)

Further Dynamic Notes:

Claude and Byleth relate because they both stick out, but it‘s notably about the experience of sticking out in and of itself, whereas in Edelgard‘s case they stick out in the same way. They’re also alike in that they only found out some secrets about themselves when they were already young adults, Byleth’s magical destiny, and Claude finding out he was related to the ruling house. From how he mentions “not being raised in the lap of luxury” and how his royal connections in Almyra are also “distant”, he might in fact have been raised in a normal village and not known he was the king’s bastard son for some time, though once the secret was out he definitely got some princely instruction like training with Nader.

The dynamic both interpersonally and as an action duo is very much a complementary one. Dimitri is very different and has that sorta morality chain dynamic going on. And though they each have their specialties that the other is lowkey jelly of Edelgard and Byleth actually fill a fairly similar niche as the charismatic superhumanly powerful field commander. Meanwhile with Claude there’s a division of labor: Claude’s the planner and Byleth’s the enforcer. He repeatedly observes that his plans would be way less effective without someone of Byleth’s caliber to carry them out.

Out of the three lords Claude is the only one where you get the sense that Byleth works for Claude post-timeskip or that Byleth becomes his subordinate. Dimitri’s lost without them, and while Edelgard offers them a formal position as royal advisor after the mock battle and gets this line about how they can’t yell orders at her in public now that she’s the emperor, but it’s phrased in such a way to suggest that she just wants them to yell orders at her discreetly. They certainly balance out Claude’s presentability/trustworthyness problem the way that Hubert quickly puts them in charge of morale to patch Edelgard’s PR shortcomings, but Hubert pretty much says this to Byleth’s face whereas Claude is the only one who knows where the ship is going for the majority of verdant wind. And in the end he’s like “Babysit fodlan for me while I finish world peace” He’s also the dominant one on an interpersonal level, he gives Byleth this speech about how they should use their position more confidently and promise to detective out their mysterious past for them. He also tries dropping hints that maybe Rhea’s not to be trusted though Byleth’s dialogue options are written to suggest that they bought her maternal act and want her back – some ppl said but this way really expositions that „well meaning deception“ aspect of Claude‘s character. He frequently steers ppl toward something they don‘t want but with the hope that they‘ll want it eventually. Perhaps he could be said to have a very fluid/dynamic view of things and people; The other two lords view them more as fixed, hence „I respectfully disagree… lets settle this by stabbing each other“

The platonic end result is your basic Epic Friendship, tell each other everything, very supportive, look out for each other, take down a zombie warrior together in an epic team attack, what more could you want I think I‘ve made a whole post about what a good friendo Claude is, initial ulterior motives nonwithstanding… He certainly had strategic advantages in the back of his mind but I don‘t think he ever faked liking Byleth

Plot wise, having The Messiah on his team gives Claude a bargaining chip to seize control of the church with its greater influence. On the other routes, he wisely refuses to touch that particular hot potato with a ten foot pole.

Character wise Byleth‘s influence largely serves to mitigate his jaded cynism. He starts to actually believe his far-flung dreams might happen, so he plays far less defensively than on the other routes.

Claude is smart and charismatic („Logos“ and „Ethos“), his main problem is that nobody trusts him. This is a bit more dimensional than just a flaw though, because he hides his real goals (though they are not truly sinister) both to avoid fights with people who would oppose these goals (contrast Edelgard who declares her intentions openly and deals with the fallout, so she has to fight the knights whereas claude manipulates them) and get the chance to gradually convince them and reveal the truth once ppl agree, also he‘s more a tactician than a strategist and often changes his plans in accordance with what he thinks is doable under the circumstances, and not telling what his plans are gives him the freedom to do that – either way, a downside of that is that no one trusts him. He lacks credibility and, having shown up out of nowhere, has less loyalty and support. Byleth, as a chrch-sanctioned charismatic figurehead, naturally mitigates that.

Black Eagles

Overarching Theme: Subverted Villain tropes. We have Emperor Evulz / mad science supersoldier, Black Mage classic, Seditious Chancellor Junior, Sexy Mage, Eccentric Scholar, Pretty Barbarian, Fighting Obsessed Blood Knight and Antisocial Sniper

Composition: It‘s nobles all the way down, even the one commoner used to be famous and is from the capital where all the wealthy ppl live (as opposed to the decentralied alliance and the very spartan kingdom nobles) – The capital‘s a heaven for culture and sophistication but you also see the evident elitism/corruption/inequality problem going on. In keeping with Adrestia being more secular, Ferdinand‘s the only one who‘s explicitly stated to be a believer (in the Marianne support) and he‘s not even super devout

One should also appreciate the irony that the side with the ‚saintly‘ crests is now against the church whereas Faerghus, ruled by the descendants of Nemesis‘ former allies and where he used to have his stronghold are now fighting for the church. But should you go with the church route it also makes a kind of sense as they‘d be goig back to the empire‘s distant origins in a sense.

History: They all vaguely know/ have heard of each other due to their parents being co-workers or living in the same town, many have at least met each other but at the same time they‘re not BFF like the Lions and many take a bit to warm up to each other.

Another thing of note is that while many of the Lions‘ families were also friends and have been associates since the days of Nemesis, many of the backstory connections for the adrestian studenrs would seem to predispose them to being foes rather than friends, half their dads‘ essentially dethroned Edelgard‘s and are various degrees of complicit in what happened to her siblings, Petra was basically taken hostage by the previous administration, Dorothea has good reason to have beef with the local rich people etc

Atmosphere: I‘ve seen some ppl who played the other routes first say things like how they were struck by how individualistic they are and how there‘s far less team cohesion, or how they „all seem to hate each other“ - I don‘t think that‘s correct assesment but they definitely are quirky, independent-minded or both. They scamper off in all directions when introduced and definitely don‘t bother with formal politeness or friendly facades, if they‘re annoyed with you most of them will probably say so. Even Bernie gives Ferdinand a lecture once XD They‘re basically goth. Though I do think it‘s sorely underappreciated that there definitely IS friendship and admiration between them esp. later in the story, admiration & appreciation being key factors especially since they‘re none too easily impressed.

Of course being independent minded makes it likely that they wouldn‘t blindly follow a leader who‘s up to no good, but it would make them just as suitable to participate in a rebellion

Another thing of note is that while the Kingdom nobles all learned to hold sharp objects in the nusery and many of the deer have street smarts or survival experience having had to live through tough circumstances most of the Eagles are complete greenhorns when you first deploy them – sure many have seen their share of effed up stuff but not in a warlike setting. And you have many of the sensitive/reluctant ones like Bernie, Linny and Dorothea. This of course could either make you think twice about the church sending them on missions or predispose you toward Flayns brand of pacifism.

Of course this just leads to Hubert and Edelgard (and to a lesser extent Petra) to clearly stand out as the experienced ones. El-chan and Hubie dear have most definitely killed a man before. The rest of them will definitely have to measure up to pick up the slack after the two of them leave.

The trajectory certainly goes differently, in CF they all return notably more confident after the timeskip (most notably with Bernie) perhaps in keeping with how Edelgard believes in & promotes self-reliance whereas in Silver Snow they never quite stop being like „AAAAA“ though I suppose the point is that they get their act together and do the deed regardless.

The Leader’s position: Absolute both in terms of power (sorry Ferdie) and dynamics. Definite ‚student council president‘ vibe, she largely interacts with them as a taskmaster/ to make them do their homework. She markedly doesn‘t like this and would like to be one of the bunch but genuinely finds it hard to step out of boss mode.

She does try her best to cultivate an equal atmosphere and for what it‘s worth most do drop the honorifics and tell her when they disagree.

How this “flavors” part one: The emphasis is certainly on expositioning how much everything in the setting sucks especially on the church‘s horribleness, I mean in the end if she‘s essentially like „We‘ve all seen it this past year“ but of course there‘s also definite foreshadowing that sHE is up to something, there‘s certainly peeps who picked her ‚cause she‘s pretty and she looked more put-together/less obviously dodgy than the others but then didn‘t personal taste wise jive with her character. The whole scene after Jeralt‘s death is definitely a point where you either decide you hate her or love her forever; You get both „WTF“ and „I get it“ type of dialogue options.

How this Ties into The Themes:

No matter what route yo pick you essentially get a story about going your own way and putting right what the previous generations done fucked up – wether they do this by leading Adrestia back to its holy origins, or by backing Edelgard‘s revolution.

On a political level they either go against their homeland or the previous administration, and personally they‘re all sorta expected to take over their parents‘s job and follow these expectations of proper nobility that they have no interest in and many of them renounce their titles or cut ties with their folks. Only Ferdinand particularly wants his fathers job and even them he means to do it very differently. The happy ending, for most of the eagles, is getting to choose their own paths

How does Byleth fit into this:

Mostly, they shift the team dynamics from Edelgard as the absolute leader in a lofty, distanced position to her coming closer to being „one of the group“ working under Byleth.

There‘s a reason she later names her elite troop the „Black Eagle Strike force“ in honor of their time at the academy. This is almost the bigger difference, because Byleth isn‘t there for the timeskip. The big change is caused by creating this situation where all the black eagles leave with Edelgard, so she knows she can trust them and having real allies needs the slithers less.

It‘s very hard for her to step out of boss mode for reasons ranging from her personality, backstory, monarch obligations and fear of vulnerability, but having Byleth be the boss for once helps. Some of her most formative experiences were a) Her family betrayed by almost all its allies including her own uncle b) being helplessly dragged around as a hostage. She wants to avoid being helpless ever again at all costs and thus grew to be a very proactive decisive adult which is mostly a good thing but can cause her tome come off blunt and unyielding at times. I mean when she‘s worried that Hubert, her best friend, is hiding some worrysome secret from her she‘s like „Tell me that‘s an order!“ and when he expertly sidesteps that (since he knows her well and understands that she wouldn‘t actually force it out of him) she‘s stumped and doesn‘t know how to tell him that she‘s worried about him – and this is a guy she knows since forever. With the other eagles she really looks out for them but can only really show it through her „leader“ persona, she has this one trick, and when it doesn‘t work (like with Caspar or Linhardt who don‘t really want anyone to boss them around or talk politics) she‘s stumped.

This is hugely mitigated when another person of her caliber shows up with whom she can share the responsibility or even leave it to them so she learns to allow herself to be soft and do stuff like admit her doubts, this starts with Byleth but also radiates into the other relationships. See Caspar and Linhard revising their bad first impressions of her later in the support chains

Further dynamics notes:

A recurring theme is being misunderstood (outright stated in the introduction and that one quote by ladislava – and also in the church route dialogues where Seteth says that „the people will never understand her ideals“ ) and finding someone who understands, which is different from Claude and Dimitri who ultimately want the world at large to understand and accept them. Edelgard has given up on that long ago - her version of the „pep talk“ scene implies she thinks its impossible to truly understand anothers sorrow – I like to think that after her siblings died she found great comfort in Hubert being „not much for condolences“ and talking plans rather than sympathies while everyone else was showing pity for something they couldnt understand. Dimitri is basically traumatized (he relates to Dedue about losing everything and thats why they‘re so tight knit), Claude is basically an outcast and relates to all that dont quite fit in, but Edelgard… yes her family‘s dead much like Dimitri‘s, but in addition to that, she has been through an indescribable science fiction fantasy thing that no one has any context for. She views herself as so altered that she considers herself a whole different person and her past self basically dead. Hence someone like Byleth or Lysithea who could relate to all that is very, very tempting to her – we‘re not told if that‘s the truth or just her perception though, Hubert doesn‘t note her being extremly different, and later on she kinda admids that she herself distanced herself from other people.

Likewise the ship dynamic is ‚birds of a feather‘. Edelgard tells you right away: She feels that she and Byleth are similar and is drawn to them because of that. It‘s not just the mad science background, both are stoic natural leaders with a bit of a dorky side. This goes both ways – While others are often mildly stumped by Byleth, she can read them pretty well and gets a lot of dialoue like „wow you‘re telling the truth“ or „I can tell you‘re lying“ - that happens so often that it‘s even used to hint that she‘s the flame emperor.

If you had to name a dominant person it would probably be Byleth but overall this combination is disntinguished by being relatively equal and balanced. She likes having Byleth‘s support but repeatedly mentions wanting to support Byleth as well - As she says after the big mock battle, „sometimes its better to have someone to rely on to support each other through the darkness“. Team dynamics wise they feel a similar niche – the abnormally powerful, stoic charismatic leader who inspires many followers and is a gifted field commander. When they‘re not allies they are foils after all. But as pointed out in their A support despite their similarities each of them have their own particular strenghts that the other envies – Byleth is a better tactician and ultimately better at moral support (though their time powers help). On the flipside, Edelgard is more proactive whereas Byleth struggles with that, and at least her 22 year old self probably has more raw strenght (judging by her stats total and how they‘re evenly matched in the church route reunion cinematic though she isn‘t using her preferred weapon)

If you don‘t marry her then the note the A support ends on would suggest that Byleth sorta gets adopted as a honorary big sister/brother with how El asks them to use her childhood nickname and just lampshading the sense of kinship between them – the platonic outcome is a family bond, which buils as much on similarity and alikeness as their romantic outcome

Plot wise, Byleth‘s presence gives Edelgard something that she wouldn‘t otherwise have: Reliable allies. This means not just Byleth themselves, but the other Black Eagles whom she feels are more firmly on her side as they never defended Garreg Mach from her assault. As she puts it when she tries to recruit you as the „Flame Emperor“, the slighterers will go around causinga strocities but with the sword of the creator on her side she could courttail that better and generally has less need to coorperate even for purely pragmatic reasons so she is free to weaken them ahead of time, kills Cornelia right away rather than work with her etc. Interestingly this is why the front lines are actually further back when Byleth returns than they are in the other routes, but then the war ends the quickest.

Character journey wise, Edelgard goes from being convinced that she has to give up everything to be a tough leader to allowing herself to just be a person, cummulating in the ending where she pulls a washington/cincinatus, abdicates and gets a normal life.

In terms of leadership style, Edelgard has „Logos“ and „Pathos“ to spare, she‘s described as a remarkable leader who inspires remarkable devotion and has a cause/ rationale – but she‘s got her weakness with inspiring loyalty on an interpersonal level. The followers are loyal to the cause – Edelgard herself is perceived as unapproachable and shady/unsavory, see Dimitri‘s rant about how she‘s „strong“, or statements by herself and Ladislava that people tend to misunderstand her. As a superhuman science experiment she is by definition not a „relatable“ leader. So once Byleth proves trustworthy Hubert immediately puts them in charge of morale and of support/pep talking the reluctant recruits.

(In part II we‘ll get into decision making processes but I think here we have to separate by route rather than house since it’s most evident post-timeskip and dependent on plot events.)

Team Dynamics and Decisionmaking

Empire Route

Here, there is a very clear distinction between inner circle and outer circle. Edelgard and Hubert have their own thing going on and once you prove loyal, you’re in, and you get to see a whole different side to both of them, Edelgard lets down her guard, Hubert acts polite and sympathetic where he was previously suspicious and mocking, and they basically tell Byleth everything, including the unsavory pursuits that they keep secret from everyone else – but overall the secrecy, maintained for realpolitik reasons, never truly stops. Basically those three make all the decisions.

Notable is that if you’ve recruited Lysithea she hovers on the threshold between inner and outer circle. She was fed the cover story of the nuke being a church weapon (though she did’t buy it) but WAS told about the secret assault on Arianrhod. This is prolly cause Edelgard likes her, she can become her main advisor in their paired ending.

Kingdom Route

Dimitri describes himself as as someone who thinks change should come from the people and that the leadership should serve them, for all that he prefers to uphold the basic order of society, and this is reflected in his leadership style – though this also reflects that he is a ‚people person‘ rather than a planner, so the plans are left to his advisors like Byleth, Gilbert and Rodrigue. He is more the emotional/ spiritual lynchpin than the mind or will of the group.

In Azure Moon, especially later on, the decisions are really made by the entire group and you see them considering their next step together. Dimitri spills the backstory as soon as it comes up, telling everyone about his relationship with Edelgard for example.

In early part 2 this is at an extreme in that Byleth, Rodrigue and Gilbert are de facto making the decisions and Dimitri is at best a grumpy figurehead that they‘re putting up because they need him as a symbol, but at the same time he doesn‘t really compromise on his revenge obsession and is just dragging the whole team along/ not really reacting to how they are making him the lynchpin for their hopes. (though it is important to note that he didn‘t ask him too either – they decide to follow him out of friendship or loyalty to his house) yet inwardly Dimitri too is blindly following what he believes are his obligations.

A huge turning point is when he returns after the whole rain conversation and Byleth gets to ask him some variety of „What do you want to do“ in which Dimitri makes a step toward both inner and outer self-directedness, but precisely because of that becomes are more complete/better consensus leader.

I also want to stress that Claude and Edelgard LOVE togetherness and cooperation and equality as concepts every bit as much as Dimitri does they want to be one of the team but they find it difficult. And of course Dimitri’s style has its own flaws too

Alliance Route

While the Blue Lions decide everything together and either variation of the Black Eagles setup has an „inner circle“ that makes the decisions, in the Golden Dear that inner circle is basically just Claude.

Even Byleth doesn‘t find out his plans until part two, and it‘s later still till he comes clear with the team (and still doesn‘t reveal all but points to Cyril as a stand-in) Hilda and Lysithea are discernable as preferred right hand people, and Byleth and Marianne as special confidants, but in the end Claude rarely shows his real self and only he knows the plan. If Hilda and Lysithea pick up alot about him and his true self it‘s because of how observant THEY are and how much Hilda is basically a lot like him.

Claude does all the thinking and motivates followers (from Lorenz to the random merchans who support him) by promising them things they want – because even if he can‘t trust peopöle, he can trust their self-interest.

Church Route

Since you are with the church that is ideally a sort of benevolent parental authority under the supposition that people need guidance and that‘s a good thing it is perhaps fitting that though Byleth winds up the nominal leader, this is actually the route where they are more of a follower. They do watch Seteth says, who is doing what he believes is his duty and mission, and we have Flayn as an innocent, pacifistic voice.

They lost their dad, and the Nabateans are a sort of surrogate family. (wether its one that youre born into or marry into, the wiord „family“ is stressed) – they are the „inner circle“ making the decision and the empire kids, ragtag misfits estranged from their homes, follow. On the one hand they‘re going against their home country on the other they have the saint‘s blood and Adrestia USED to be church aligned so it also makes a kind of sense.

Among the Adrestian kids themselves, Ferdinand and Petra get a chance to shine as the ostensible leaders. They are stalward, competent leader-like people in CF too , but there they are more overshadowed by the much more experienced Hubert and Edelgard. - Though when you think about it they are like „pure hero“ versions of them who were never forced to become as cold and pragmatic. Ferdinand, like Hubert, is a nobleman from a storied family who is proud of it but wants to fix its tarnished reputation from his corrupt father. Petra, like Edelgard, is a former political hostage who experienced hardship at a young age and worked her way up all on her own, being very serious and competent despite her young age. I prefer the version where they stay buds rly.

It‘s worth noting that Seteth, ‚Heir of Purpose‘, sees it as their families duty to protect Fodlan and is the only one really doing that – his brothers noped out, and Rhea, uneknowst to him, twisted „protect“ into „rule/subjugate“. One might question who gives him the right to decide things because his mom is magic but on the other hand he really is 100% benevolent and I see no sign that he has any greedy intentions especially in in Silver Snow, all the countries collapse and someone needs to keep order, he doesn‘t understand what the empire‘s doing and why just sees their agression and really is rising to the challenge of upholding peace because something needs to do something about the violence. He had withdrawn to protect his daughter but then in the end he‘s the last one who is really doing what Sothis would have wanted. He looks most like her too having the slightly darker, ‚spikier‘ hair.

Further Thoughts

I’m curious to see how Yuri, the Ashen Wolves, and Cindered Shadows compare/contrast to this and i theyll manage to make the dynamics sufficiently different so that its neither a carbon copy or a blabk mary sue ish superlative.

I mean the other routes are so interesting to dissect because its a tradeof and all have their own flavor so really CS would do better to try to be “different” or, better yet, “complementary” than “better” or “cooler”

#three houses #fire emblem: three houses #fire emblem three houses #fe3h #black eagles #blue lions #golden deer #three houses meta

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kendrixtermina · 5 years

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Ferdinand and Hubert - A case study in Comparisons and Contrasts

So they don’t get along at all before the time skip, but afterwards, their A support opens with them sharing hot beverages together with all the chill in the world - how did that happen?

In this Essay, I will -

So even at the most simple surface-level one sees why those two would clash at once. Right away, Ferdinand’s always trying to one-up Edelgard, and Hubert is her loyal underling.

But it goes much deeper than just their opinion of Edelgard - in many ways, they are very different men. Ferdinand starts out with an oblivious naivety that later morphs into more well-founded optimism, Hubert, meanwhile, is cynical and jaded and very serious despite his relative youth. Ferdie’s extravagant, attention grabbing and expressive (though as evidence in his support with caspar and his comments re: Dimitri, he values collectedness and restraint to an extent) and enjoys the finer things of life, whereas Hubert is dispassionate, spartan, humble and not much for material comforts. Ferdinand’s worrying about wether he’ll be able to make a name for himself; Hubert’s quite content to work from behind the scenes.

Because of those differences, they completely misunderstand each other upon first contact, but that disdain is also linked to their values and virtues, and this is where they can learn from each other.

As at this point it’s still open wether Ferdinand will side with Edelgard & Hubert or turn against them, the B support end on a semi hostile note, but by the end of it they’ve learned that the other is nothing like their initial misconception.

In his C support with Edelgard Hubert mentions that he views a lot of his fellow nobles as spoiled, corrupt and inconsequential. The empire is full of corrupt, arrogant greedy bastards who think of nothing but themselves and live in excess and Hubert finds those pretty disgusting, which is why he’s on board with Edelgard’s plan to get rid of corruption and establish a meritocracy. He calls people he doesn’t like “degenerates” or “inconsequential” which gives us an indication of what he finds contemptible.

Since he talks a lot about his noble obligations and seems to vye for attention, Hubert’s first impression of Ferdinand is that he’s one of those - greedy arrogant and obsessed with the superficial/ his own ego, just like his father.

But Ferdinand isn’t actually like that. He may have naively repeated some of the arrogant things his father taught him, but he’s well aware that his old man is greedy and corrupt, and as per his goddess tower event, was thinking to depose him himself if Edelgard hadn’t beaten him to it. He’s not just talking the talk - he’s determined to also walk the walk and live up to the hype, to actually be elite and live up to the obligations of his title. He’s not trying to backstab Edelgard or put her down, rather he thinks he’ll make a pretty useless prime minister if he can’t keep up with her or offer useful feedback, which includes constructive criticism and balancing her out

And they do indeed end up having plenty of constructive debate if he sticks with her, resulting for example in Ferdinand’s education plan. As far as Edelgard is concerned, Hubert’s useful to her because he’s likeminded, and Ferdinand’s useful because he thinks differently - being a traditionalist and, as we learn in his Marianne support, a believer, and also an optimist and good communicator. to the Black Eagle Strike force what Togusa is to Section Nine. But this could only happen after the holy tomb scene, when Edelgard and Hubert know that they can trust him - had they involved him earlier he might’ve warned them against, well, making themselves look guilty. But they have good reasons for not being trusting given their formative experiences...

Likewise, Ferdinand, who constantly tries to better himself and prides himself of being independent-minded doesn’t like Hubert at first because he believes him to be a lackey without a mind of his own. But that’s not the case either. He follows Edelgard out of conviction, (a shared dream, as dorothea puts it) not blind obedience. They are very like-minded, seeing as they are both unsentimental, nontraditional, reason-driven and none too fond of organized religion, he’s on board with her cause and in awe of her as a leader - but since it’s both their cause that he also wants, he sometimes has different ideas on what’s the best way to accomplish it. Their views subtly differ on a couple of fronts - She prefers more direct tactics and would probably find more appeal in ordinary things if she felt she had the liberty; Both are curious but it’s a stronger force for her. He’s markedly more cautious and less merciful than Edelgard, and harsher in his condemnation of the faith. They both expect Byleth to betray them but where Edelgard is wistful about it Hubert’s suspicious af. They probably give each other plenty of cause for worry.

(Unlike Dedue, who says to Felix that he’ll do whatever if Dimitri commands it, even if he is at times clearly uncomfortable - though of course to be fair to him, this is basically his coping mechanism after his family was killed, and it doesn’t mean that he doesn’t admire Dimitri as a person or believe he’ll be a good leader who will bring equality for his people; They’d very much like to just be nornal friends, but feel they can’t with the world as it is. )

So Ferdinand certainly sees that once he notices that Hubert interprets his orders rather liberally at times; It’s not that Hubert never disagrees with Edelgard, it’s that he just acts at his own discretion rather than debate because he thinks she’s got enough responsibilities to worry about, and that it’s insignificant details after all (he also discusses this is further detail with Shamir) - He doesn’t mind being the fall guy, because she’s the one who’s the princess and thus has a reputation to maintain. Ppl think he’s scary anyway, and while he has a tad of a complex about it he’s mostly accepted it and made it work for him - after all, Edelgard knows he’s trustworthy. And wouldn’t leave things to his discretion of their visions diverged that much.

But Ferdinand can’t quite approve of that either, because disagreeing and essentially going behind someone’s back are two pairs of shoes - As far as he’s concerned the point of debate is not simply to disagree but to refine ideas by working on them together. He admits that sometimes he talks with Edelgard and finds out that he was wrong.

But they find a commonality here which is that though they may not look it both are actually appreciative of other people’s viewpoints and virtues. Hubert actually brings up the other Black Eagles’ good qualities quite a bit in his supports, for all that he also plays the taskmaster, and Ferdinand generally takes constructive criticism like a pro. Whenever someone reacts negatively to him, he doesn’t get butthurt but generally goes extraordinary lenghts to prove himself (Marianne, Mercedes, Dorothea and Bernadetta being good examples)

On a related note they also both value objectivity and composure, something that comes up in their A support.

So once the Holy tomb scene happens and they decide to start trusting each other, the foundation is laid for them to learn from each other.

But let’s take a step back at look at how the two came to be how and where they are, at the core of what motivates them.

Because while they reacted somewhat differently to it, when you get down to it, they come from the same situation and want the same things.

What they want is to do something significant and meaningful with their lives. And their situation is - they learned early that the world in which they’re looking to find meaning and significance is full of fakery and rottenness, chiefly because their fathers are crooks.

With Ferdinand it’s pretty apparent that he wants to amount to something with how he always pushed himself to be extraordinary and virtuous. Here and there he gets some lines about going down in legend but it’s more than just wanting fame - on memorable occasion is the Marianne support where he says that he believes that all people are here for a purpose and people should look for something only they can do. And if you marry him (to Byleth)? Well first it’s the cutest thing ever, he gets the gaudiest wedding ring and flat out faints from happiness. So cute. But most tellingly, later on in his support chain with Byleth we find out that he seriously worries about wether anything will remain of him and his efforts will amount to anything in the grand sheme of things.

Hubert is subtler, but when Edelgard has this little moment of feeling sorry that she dragged him into this/ worrying that she may have kept him from the normal life he might otherwise have had, he tells her that he’s in fact grateful that she gave him the chance to actually do something meaningful with his life instead of being yet another spoiled brat - he also says something similar to Dorothea. He’s simply the sort of person who likes to be part of something greater than himself - As he tells Byleth in their A support, humans have short lives, and that's part of what makes them aspire to greatness and try to effect meaningful changes in their lifetimes, though by that point he’s less pessimistic than during his academy days and says that if he hadn’t run into Edelgard he might’ve found some other meaningful thing to do with himself, like for example work with Byleth, whose heroic charisma he wasn’t entirely immune to in the end.

Though not at all a merciful man, he’s not without standards - He disdains corruption, is the sort of non-believer who just couldn’t get past the problem of evil and at one point tells Linhard that they couldn’t be friends if he [Linny] truly were as apathetic as he claimed to be.

From how he brings up his family’s tradition in a semi-proud way sometimes, one upon a time, that might’ve been where he found that sense of purpose. Being part of a 1000 year legacy sounds cool. But then his father would one day backstab the same people that he once told Hubert to protect with his life - and though I can#t imagine that his natural disposition was ever too enthusiastic or cheery, this is probably the moment where he realized that a lot of this talk about “the empire’s illustrious history” was just that, talk. That it’s all fake. Self-serving lip-service. When he goes chasing after Arundel and Edelgard in accordance to what he’s been told, his dad unceremoniously collects him. This was probably a formative experience that contributed to his irreverent, cynical and unsentimental outlook - a catalyst in his coming to the conclusion that it’s all fake, and that most of his peers are spoiled, rotten, decadent and pointless.

Then one day, Edelgard appears before him again and tells him she wants to tear down that rotten world they live in, that he, perhaps, resigned himself to living in, and from that moment he was all in and never looked back

Ferdinand meanwhile had a different response to all the fakery and corruption in the world (and in Adrestia in particular) - If others were fake then he was going to be the real thing. Instead of declaring the whole thing bullshit because he eventually noticed that his father wasn’t all that great, he decided that he was actually going to live up to the ideal to live up to and be worthy of the hype.

His dad clearly tried to raise him with an elbow mentality and probably even told him that he must beat the princess and make her his bitch, but it all bounced his inherent goodness like teflon. He wasn’t satisfied just going around claiming that he’s great, but wanted to actually be great and maybe he felt some pressure to archieve there but he never was the slightest bit mean or petty or even truly arrogant toward anyone. naive or insensitive perhaps but he never put anyone down, he’s earnest and pure to a fault. I must stress that he faints from happiness if you propose to him and buys you the gaudiest ring ever. Also seems to have been a total romantic in his other paired endings, what. a. cute. He must take after his mother, clearly.

Somewhere the other end of the “My father is a crook” reaction spectrum you find Lorenz. Unlike Ferdinand who’s just a bit naive but deeply and fundamentally good, Lorenz had a bit more genuine arrogance, immaturity and callousness going on, at least early on, and he’s a lot more self-interested though he was always ultimately virtuous, political-minded and motivated by caution. Lorenz too knows his father’s a crook, or at least ‘respectfully disagrees with him’, but at the same time you can tell that as far as he’s concerned that’s still his father. He’s clearly happy to get his approval when he’s trusted with the family relic, and tries to protect him, be it by fighting in his stead, propositioning Edelgard for mercy if he’s recruited to the empire... though in the GD route he will conveniently “forget” to tell the old man about Claude’s plan once he starts believing that Claude will win, he’s got no illusions about his competence.

Hubert of course is on the other extreme, the man was pretty much dead to him the moment he turned traitor and it’s heavily implied that he ordered that he ordered the hit on his father at his own discretion (everyone else, including the Prime minister who was the main culprit, is just jailed. Actually very civilized of Edelgard, didn’t expect that in a medieval setting. Yet Hubert’s father is the one who gets the axe, which i take to mean that he did this on his own account. - because if Edelgard was gonna kill just one it woul’ve been the one she hated the most. That seems like she left it up to Hubert and he was like “LESS mercy please!”, or like he made sure the guy was dead before she could argue) When Hanneman presents him with the idea that ‘ol Vertra senior might’ve had redeeming qualities or mitigating circumstances, Hubert would hear nothing of it. The hate’s transparently personal and his disgust at the sheer treason outweighs everything else. He sure does loathe a traitor.

Ferdinand’s somewhere in between - he was meaning to actively remove his dad and sorta steeling himself for it and once he’d deposed he acknowledges that he has it coming, but he can’t help but find the punishment a bit harsh after ‘all his father’s hard work for the empire’ (that’s also because he doesn’t know just HOW evil his dad was) - if you have both Lysithea and Ferdinand in your party you get this paralogue in which the PM tries to escape but gets killed by revolting peasants, and though he acknowledges that the bastard deserved it, Ferdinand still cries when he hears the news, and with him in that state, Lysithea can’t bring herself to tell him about the human experimentation either (in part because she knows Arundel to have been the real mastermind) It seems that no matter what faction he winds up in, it’s a constant of the universe that no one can quite bring themselves to break Ferdie’s heart.

Many of the other Black Eagles might’ve been a bit annoyed at him early on but after the timeskip? No one wants to burst his bubble. See also that sad, sad line you get from Dorothea if you recruit her but not him and end up offing him. To think that they started out so antagonistic. Actually, it says a whole lot about Edelgard that she always treated him normally. Like that’s how you know that she really believes in judging people by their own merits.

Ironically Edelgard actually has an evil parent of her own, and Dimitri also decides not to tell her, though this isn’t quite the same because Edelgard never knew Patricia, wasn’t raised by her and never looked up to her, and everything regarding her is super ambiguous anyways On the one hand Dimitri might’ve considered it a low blow to tell her upsetting news right when they were about to fight - on the other hand maybe bringing it up would’ve diverted the conversation in a more fruitful direction...

A+

So given that they’re both actually receptive to constructive input and ultimately out to archieve meaningful things, it’s not so strange that they’d end up amicably sharing hot beverages once the initial misunderstandings were out of the way and they’d somewhat come to value each other’s viewpoints, even if some token hilarious banter remained to the end, because of course it did. The right and left hands of the emperor, since Byleth is, of course, her wings.

As a sidenote,

Though I like most of them, I feel like a bunch of the A supports were a bit of a wasted opportunity/ too concerned with either concluding the previous gimmick/ subplot or pairing the characters up when they could’ve shed a light on the character’s evolution during the timeskip- They’re good scenes, but maybe it would’ve been better to keep the old system where you have an extra rank (S) for the pairup esp. since they knew the timeskip would be happening so we could have a solid scene of them interacting post timeskip that isn’t immediately pairing them up - But the Ferdiand/ Hubert one is a good example of this being done right with how abruptly the support chains it goes from antagonistic to chill - it actually feels like five years have passed.

Many of the Dimitri ones also avert this since his character is so changed, and the Claude/Lorenz one another good example that has a lot going on in it, not only has their previous antagonism largely evaporated but Lorenz has matured, Claude realized that he’s not so bad, and Claude himself is no longer trying to establish himself to seize the Alliance, but in fact getting ready to pack his bags and leave once his work is done.

#three houses #fire emblem three houses #fire emblem: three houses #ferdinand von aegir #hubert von vestra

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