#things in older zelda games have specific purposes and can be more situational than pretty much anything in botw/totk so far

[waywardsalt]

my grievances with botw

Breath of the Wild is... undeniably a fantastic game, but it is very genuinely not the kind of game I like, and since I started playing it I’ve been enjoying it less and less so... I have a pair of problems with it that I’d figure I’d go into, as well as some stuff that, while weak in botw, were executed better in past loz games.

(small shoutout to @zeldanamikaze for encouraging this and having some points that i agree with and had some examples that i hadn’t thought about much initially)

Again, Breath of the Wild is an objectively impressive game, and I’m not trying to sit here and convince you that it’s a bad game. I’m just trying to point out things that detracted from my enjoyment of it, especially compared to my enjoyment of other Zelda games.

Before I get into the big stuff, I’ll just shoot off some quick little things that I think could’ve been improved:

- The dungeons generally felt like glorified shrines, and while they had cool mechanics and ways to access them, they were short and more or less pretty simple and all have similar visual and musical identities.

- Side quests and their rewards didn’t feel worth doing half of the time. I barely remember any notable ones off the top of my head and the longer ones just gave mostly generic rewards, which I suppose makes sense considering the limited amount of truly unique items in botw.

- Seeing the same enemies over and over again made the combat feel more like a chore than something to really engage with, not to mention that there is hardly any difficulty scaling beyond just making the enemies more durable.

- The story is fine, but in my experience, even seeing people go into more detail about the meanings of events, I never really cared for the events or the characters presented, since you don’t actually have to directly interact with any of that to play the game. Hell, you don’t even need to interact with the story at all to beat it, so the focus certainly doesn’t feel like it’s on the story.

- It would be a lie to call the soundtrack bad, but it’s sparse usage makes it hard to truly appreciate and the fact that most of it is meant to be more atmospheric generally makes them a bit less interesting to listen to on their own, though I will admit there are some fantastic tracks in botw, usually being some of the boss themes.

- While the Sheikah slate runes are cool, they feel very bland after a while, especially compared to the varied items seen in previous games. They’re good tools for an open world, but not much fun otherwise (the bombs were good though, since they had a variety of uses).

And that’s the quick stuff- again, mostly courtesy of @zeldanamikaze, since these are the examples I’ve seen her mention.

I have two big points that kind of encapsulate why I dislike this game and still adore the older games, that being: the minigames and the items and their relationships to dungeons.

Breath of the Wild is a very different game than what came past it, and I am very aware that it is a vast departure from those other games for a reason. However, this leads me to view it not only simply as a game not up my alley, but also as kind of inferior in some aspect to those previous Zelda games. Breath of the World is first and foremost an open world game, seemingly putting a focus on gameplay enjoyment above all else (not to imply that the ‘else’ is bad because of this, but I do think that the ‘else’ suffers in comparison to other Zelda titles.)

It may also be worth mentioning that the other Zelda games I have played is the following: LoZ NES, Link’s Awakening (Original and Remake), Ocarina of Time, Majora’s Mask, Phantom Hourlgass, Skyward Sword, A Link Between Worlds, and Triforce Heroes. I have also played both hyrule warriors games as well as loz 2, wind waker, and minish cap, none of the latter 3 i have finished or currently have access to.

1: The Minigames

Minigames are common in Zelda games, so of course botw has a few scattered around it’s world. Botw’s minigames are very different than the minigames seen in past Zelda games, mostly due in part to the limited array of items and unique gameplay gimmicks available in botw. Botw’s minigames usually focus on different forms of archery, gliding, or rune usage: all things integral to normal gameplay. At best you get rupees or cosmetic items from most minigames.

Botw’s minigames are just slightly altered situations of normal gameplay. The bowling is just using stasis except this time the game has a special little arena for it. Pretty much all of the archery games are either just counting how many deer you can kill or if you can just hit some targets on horseback. There’s one race I can think of and one gliding activity I can think of.

This makes sense, considering that there are a handful of other non-minigame activities to engage in, but these minigames feel... hollow. None of the minigames feature gameplay exclusive to those minigames or feature gameplay only used in certain parts of the game. They all make use of readily available mechanics in botw, so they’re like tests of skill- but otherwise not really any worth giving a second-thought unless you want to see how good of a glider or archer you are or grab some extra rupees.

But they aren’t very... worth it or generally fun within the context of botw. It’s just another way to do something that is available to you pretty much all game. They don’t feel unique, they just feel like a task.

Previous Zelda games (obviously) have archery minigames and allow you to use archery when you get the bow and from that point onward. And yet the archery minigames are made unique from the rest of the archery in the game; ocarina of time’s archery minigame is simply just shooting at targets, but the possible rewards and the simple fact that not often are you going to be continuously shooting arrows at enemies make it a bit of a novel experience within oot. The minigames in past zelda games take advantage of the items and area-specific mechanics: they usually include item-exclusive mechanics like bombchu games, or take advantage of more specific mechanics, like the minecarts in skyward sword, the masks in majora’s mask, or being able to control gongoron in phantom hourglass.

They also gave genuine rewards- empty bottles, quest items, ship parts, new masks, heart containers or pieces, kinds of stuff that are hard to get and very valuable. They’re worth doing for reasons outside of just a little activity. The minigames in other Zelda games do really enhance the experience by taking advantage of situational mechanics or giving a unique usage for some items.

You can probably get every item in botw without playing all of the minigames. They have little actual purpose. But in other zelda games, they have a purpose in the greater game and provide novel experiences within the game.

2: Items and their relationships with the dungeons

Obviously, compared to past games, botw’s ‘dungeons’ kind of sucked. They’re fine in a vacuum, with interesting gimmicks and the like, but they’re really little more than glorified shrines with four different-but-similar bosses at the end.

In my opinion, one of reasons why the divine beasts just... fell flat compared to other zelda dungeons is the lack of unique items in general. The runes in botw are cool and useful but you get them at the start of the game and never get anything new. You are give every tool you need to beat all of the dungeons the moment you finish the tutorial.

Older zelda games’ dungeons being tied to their respective items is a big part- to me- of what makes those dungeons so good.

Obviously, the theming, musical themes, and larger layouts and more varied puzzles make them objectively better experiences, but the way they interact with item acquisition makes the whole thing even better. 

Even in a link between worlds, where you can get every item whenever you want from Ravio, each dungeon is still tied to one of those items, and one of those items is needed to successfully complete that dungeon.

The dungeons in past Zelda games are practically complex tutorials on how you can use your new items. They are where those items shine and they are designed so that those items are used to their fullest potential within. And then you must then use that item to defeat that dungeon’s boss, and you usually have no chance of beating that boss if you don’t make use of the dungeon’s associated item. It’s like a final test for the item, seeing if you know how it works enough to complete the dungeon and use it against a boss’s weaknesses.

The most recent example, and probably one of the best, is needing to use the whip to tear off koloktos’ arms in the ancient cistern, but the classic scenario of the bombs for king dodongo works well enough, and the bosses of majora’s mask requiring you to understand how the transformation masks work. There are definitely some bosses that require no use of dungeon items (moldorm in the tower of hera, either ghirahim fights), but the item’s usage is still showcased prominently in their dungeons.

Outside of the dungeons, too, the progressive acquisition of items makes more areas and secrets available to you, giving a much more palpable sense of progression through those games’ worlds.

In botw, you get every tool the moment you are released into the rest of hyrule, so while figuring out what to do with those tools can be fun, the sense of progression is dampened by having every item from the start and nothing you gain beyond that being needed for anything aside from a nice little ability to make things easier.

I’m not really too sure exactly why I never found botw fun the way everyone else does, but I think lackluster minigames and the general lack of items that aid a sense of progression are parts of it.

#loz #legend of zelda #botw #salty talks #i feel like im swinging at a hornets nest by suggesting that this game isn't perfect #cuz everywhere you look this game is praised incessantly while its like. i think its fine at best tbh #because it's really not to my tastes #i highly prefer the experience that the other loz games provide and botw dropped off for me while i still enjoy those games #like. open world games arent really my thing and a game packed to the gills with just as much shit as possible is a major turn off for me #this was going to have three points but playing totk exhausted me mentally and i dont really care any more. i dont find these games fun #the tutorial islands felt tedious after a bit and like. idk. good game but i have yet to find myself actually having fun with it #it kinda feels like its fun in concept but the fact that it doesnt necessarily feel got to play to me and progress is slow and based on #like. slow exploration? its fine but its not something i actually enjoy. its not teh difficulty bc i like elden ring and hades n stuff #like. i have more fun with ph than totk. idk. playing totk was like. entertaining? but it kinda ust felt hollow to me #granted i just like. unlocked the first tower and did some shrines but like. idk. good game. i don't think i actually like it too much #i really think these two points kind of maybe explain why these games just fail to click with me #things in older zelda games have specific purposes and can be more situational than pretty much anything in botw/totk so far #it feels. better. to find an item that fits a specific purpose in older loz games. they're more gimmicky. #i feel that open world games (similar to botw/totk) are dragged down by the sheer freedom they allow to me at least #there's too much to do and you're allowed to do whatever so it all feels kind of. standard theres not much purpose to it #the tedium of botw/totk is much more grating than the tedium i experience in skyward sword's lanayru desert #because you HAVE to go through and figure out lanayru desert to continue the story get new items find new dungeons #botw/totk you kinda just get some items and maybe a lackluster quest or some fucking environment thing #long post #idk. im not too far into totk while writing this but rn in a weird way it and botw feel empty to me in a way i cant express #i enjoyed botw at first but after beating it and all it just felt kinda boring and unsatisfying to replay

[love-laika]

As a companion to what I posted last night, here are all of the games I played this year! I’m not ready to pick a favorite yet, but you can probably draw your own conclusions from this list.

First, the games I did manage to finish

Inside is really short but totally wild. A solid if occasionally frustrating platformer that is more about dystopian horror, but like in a quiet way. It uses every second with purpose and is much better for it. I never played much of Limbo, but I think I enjoy the atmosphere of inside much more. It's really scary!!! 

i "finished" playing Starlight Stage (as much as one can) this year too. The rhythm game is pretty fun but I'm just so tired of mobage/gacha stuff. It takes up so much time and just makes me stressed. I'm tired. But if you like idol games, and haven't tried it yet I highly recommend! It's a great time to jump in 

Hiveswap! You're all probably pretty tired of my Homestuck talk, but it's a great adventure game. I hope future chapters will continue to be fun and creative and silly (and eventually probably break my heart)

Wolfenstein 2: a game that juggles lots of ideas and delivers on most of them. It deserves kudos just for being willing to tackle prickly subjects (like America’s horrific past). The shooting is fun but way too hard. Play it on easy. And no spoilers but the ending sucks, in multiple ways kinda. The set pieces around the midsection just had my jaw on the floor though

It's strange to have a brutal FPS where the story is better than the shooting in some places?

Last for beaten games is Heat Signature (again as much as you can beat a randomly generated roguelike). I am SO into its approach to stealth, where basically you are urged to think on your feet and adapt to changing situation. the simple fact that you can stop time for as long as you want and just think is really great. its less about execution and more about doing the right sequence of events for the situation

Some of my fav game moments came totally unscripted from me taking on a really tough mission and just getting out by the skin of my teeth

Now for the probably really long part, stuff I didn't finish. I'm bad at finishing things (anything) so it's not that I hated these games, but I do generally have more mixed feelings

An older game I played a lot was Burnout 3 and like that game is *chef kiss*. I used to be WAY into racing games, so this really scratched that old itch. It is, dare I say it, the best racing game I've ever played. It strikes that really perfect balance of control and chaos for each race. The AI is super aggressive so have to play offense and defense equally to get ahead. The triumph of getting gold in a difficult race is just exhilarating

I had a specific moment where it was just me and one other guy duking it out for first. He was way ahead after I got in a bad crash so for the final lap I was boosting all the way, cutting every corner, and drifting around every bend to catch up. Then finally just seconds from the checkered line, I nudged him into an oncoming car and finished. I was fucking hooting and hollering in my room at 2 in the morning

The only reason I haven't finished is that there's no real rush to. There's no story to get to, just a larger collection of cars and tracks. It’s always ready for me when I decide to come back

(brief aside) I opened up Burnout Paradise after this and while the open world is really cool to explore (one of the best for driving) it doesn't give me the same adrenaline rush. It’s too easy and the AI is not nearly as vengeful

Night in the Woods I started in like February and have barely touched and I feel SUPER bad about that. It's a good game, but I think I might be kind of afraid to play it... at first I related a LOT, maybe too much, to Mae. As the game goes on and begins to seriously judge her it started to make me seriously uneasy. I'm afraid to confront my problems and it felt like the game was calling me, specifically, out for that. Which I mean the writing must be pretty good then. I’ll get back to it... eventually

Of the games I'm bad at finishing, visual novels are probably at the top of that list just because of how long they are and the relatively low amount of direct participation. but VA-11 Hall-A is really good!!!! It's just a really solid cyberpunk bartending simulator. And Jill is like my favorite protag this year. did you know I had never seen blade runner before this year?

The reason I dropped off a bit is that I had computer problems and lost some saves. I’d need to go through like 2 hours of stuff I already read. but. Words are failing a little bit. The writing is just good y’all

The further I get from Persona 5 the less I'm in love with it. Once you get past the fantastic music and slick graphics... the writing is just kind of bad. Characters feel kind of hollow and it sends really REALLY mixed messages and society and conformity. It could be the script or just the translation but everything just comes out sounding bad. After 100 hours, forgivable flaws just get grating. I'm in the last dungeon and I don't think I'm going to finish it

Just like put a hold on Nier: Automata for me. I've started but I haven't really gotten to the parts where it supposedly kicks into gear. 2B is hot though

Breath of the Wild has got to be like, the pinnacle of open world design right? A lot has been said about Zelda so I’ll skip the main stuff. My favorite thing is how physical your interactions with the world are. The game encourages you to play with its systems and see how they interact. Drop food into a fire to cook it a shocked enemy will drop their gear, water and metal will conduct electricity, tame your horse by riding it and correcting when it veers off the path etc.

I played just a little bit of LISA too. I like its really dark sense of humor, but the game also feels like it is sometimes actively discouraging you to play. It's interesting!!

Lastly is Metal Gear Solid V. I've thought a lot about this game because it succeeds and fails in a lot of weird ways. For now, just know this. The stealth is so good it got me to buy all of the previous games just so I can understand the series better (though I have played MGS 1 before my thoughts are basically the same as this)

The final game I played this year is Super Mario Odyssey literally this morning so I got nothing to say on that one

jesus christ there were so many games in 2017 and yet I'm still going back to ones made years ago

#thoughts? comments? #likes? subscribes? #long post #goty #video games #btw most of these are on sale somewhere rn