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mejomonster · 2 years

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also on the subject of zhang qiling’s characterization. i really want to get through more of the novels. i’ve only gotten through books 1 and 2 so far, and only the english translations (which im assuming up in quality a bit once you move to merebear translates in the later books), and i did not even get to the xiaoge parts in book one in the chinese versions yet.

so like, my opinion of him in the books is very specifically book 1 and 2 translated. and im very curious how he evolves and how he’s presented and how he acts to the iron triangle group.

book 1 and book 2 i actually think overall the drama adaptations did a good job of showing xiaoge’s personality in them, although a bit ‘sped up’ (just like pangzi’s mostly himself but ‘sped up’ to be closer and warmer and kinder to wu xie quicker than he is in the book, im assuming so the shows could get the iron triangle dynamic sooner).

in book 1, like The Lost Tomb drama, xiaoge is mostly a detached mystery man who’s intensely competent, dangerous, and aloof. in the book he doesn’t particularly give notice to wu xie as far as we can tell (from what i remember anyway), and wu xie mostly only notices him for how Talented he is (his cool fingers... ok wu xie calm Down lol), and because wu xie at that point is trying to pretend to be a tough cutthroat tomb raider like San Shu, but he’s naive and at heart always been just unable to ignore others suffering If he thinks he can help. So we get little bits of wu xie wondering if xiaoge’s okay, wondering where he is, checking on him (like wu xie is ultimately doing with pretty much everyone on the expedition he thinks he’s even got a .001% of being helpful to). Wu Xie is less charitable and goody-two-shoes than the shows, and just thinks in his pov selfishly, but even thinking himself ‘trying to keep myself alive fuck others’ he ends up going ‘oh fuck i should go try and grab that guy and help huh?’. So wu xie is thinking that way about xiaoge too, as is to be expected. What’s unique about it is that no one else is thinking of xiaoge as someone who needs to be cared about - who’s weak enough to need help, or an ally enough to deserve their time, etc.

And that dynamic is also true in the show - in the drama the rest of the team is quick to assume xiaoge is against them, could kill them (quite possible), is using them, can handle things without them sticking any limbs out for him, and a lot of them don’t necessarily assume xiaoge would even help them If he was around and it was convienient for him. The drama blows it out of proportion, with wu xie being damsel-in-distress saved by xiaoge nonstop, and xiaoge visibly to the audience taking notice of wu xie SPECIFICALLY asking if xiaoge’s okay and trying to help him (as early as the scene in the Inn when wu xie carries him to a bed, and gets him food to eat). In the novel xiaoge does help wu xie at times, but at least from wu xie’s pov (the only one we get) it seems he just Happens to be helping. One can say xiaoge maybe already took a special interest in wu xie, simply because he DECIDES to help him (which he likely does because he notes wu xie is actually treating him like a Person unlike pretty much everyone else on the team, and wu xie’s also the only civilian on the team and therefore not necessarily as much of a potential enemy/threat to xiaoge and his goals). But from wu xie’s perspective xiaoge just seems like an enigma in book 1, who’s VERY competent and VERY cool and very mysterious, who wu xie treats like a Person who deserves to be concerned for like himself (unlike how others treat xiaoge), who happens to help wu xie out a bit (but multiple people help wu xie he’s a naive first timer he needs it lol).

So from book 1, you really don’t see a clear perspective on how Xiaoge views wu xie. Only that its apparent wu xie himself treats tomb raiders, all people generally, as People as worthwhile as himself to help (if he thinks - foolishly- he could survive helping them). So wu xie’s behavior is a contrast to literally everyone, and for someone like xiaoge its a treatment he generally doesn’t get. (I’d argue for Pangzi too, a reason they gradually gravitate toward each other too). The drama follows a similar arc, but xiaoge’s interest and the fact he’s been Affected by someone caring for him and what that makes him feel like is WAY more obvious and likely sped up (cause the early dramas speed up iron triangle dynamics a bit). In the drama, its CLEAR xiaoge’s repeatedly saving wu xie in part because wu xie in particular is trying to help xiaoge, treating xiaoge like a normal person like wu xie is, and assuming xiaoge has good intentions by default/is an ally by default. Wu Xie is being trustworthy, and safe, and attempting to be helpful, all things xiaoge never gets. And drama xiaoge tests that, even trying to show himself as scary and brutal AND a dangerous ‘traitor’ to the group without arguing with San Shu when san shu starts painting him that way. Killing an immortal in front of the group and wu xie after wu xie assumes he isn’t a killer, xiaoge and pangzi ready to murder each other, xiaoge and san shu clearly on opposing sides (meaning wu xie assuming the best of xiaoge means even MORE if he’s assuming xiaoge is worth trusting even as a stranger against the person wu xie loves/knows/trusts most in that group). So in the drama its more clear xiaoge is very affected by wu xie’s treatment of him, and that’s likely why he has an interest in checking in on him/keeping him safe later at the auction scene they add in, and the implication is that in The Lost Tomb 2 xiaoge’s still so eager on wu xie because wu xie truly WAS the person to treat him like a trusted person back. The drama is clearly more sped up/obvious than book 1. But the core intention of xiaoge mysterious, wu xie’s normal personality happening to touch xiaoge are in both.

Onto book 2. I watched the drama The Lost Tomb 2 first, and so i expected that xiaoge suddenly being a lot WARMER and friendlier and open to smiling and joking and trying to be close to wu xie was “the drama speeding pingxie/iron triangle up in closeness” just like the first drama. However, mostly, that wasn’t the case. In both the show and book, Xiaoge first is introduced as Old Man Zhang who is a “professor” who shakes wu xie’s hand and smiles and is EAGER to talk to and touch him. Then wu xie finds out, once attacks happen, that old man Zhang is actually Zhang Qiling as he removes the face-mask disguise and helps wu xie out. In the show, I thought that was already SUCH a change of pace - for xiaoge to show up covertly, and then go gush to wu xie in disguise (just xiaoge gushing/socializing in general is out of place for him normally!). But then I read book 2, and in it old man Zhang gets more dialogue of trying to compliment wu xie (and wu xie taking it as veiled-insults implying wu xie is inexperienced, when its actually xiaoge having RESEARCHED wu xie’s background and gushing in an attempt to say he finds wu xie cool too and wants to be friends).

So Old Man Zhang itself is so interesting, because this disguise and warmth to wu xie implies at some point in book 1 xiaoge DID decide he’s interested in knowing wu xie, and decided when book 2 came and wu xie was scouted for an expedition, that he xiaoge would show up too and attempt to socialize with wu xie again. which is all HUGE for xiaoge, a guy who 1. does not socialize or care to, 2. does not generally have any attachment to the world so just having an interest in getting to know someone is big for him 3. is purposefully making efforts to be warm and interact which are things from book 1 he seemed to not care to do at all. So in book 2 he is suddenly acting a LOT more like pangzi (a tomb raider but sociable and aware of how to be at least casually friendly and make JOKES, compliment people, vocalize team work and strategy). xiaoge is doing a LOT in book 2 to try and reach an olive branch out to wu xie in the hopes wu xie will take it. I also think the disguise portion as old man Zhang indicates on some level Xiaoge wanted to try socializing/connecting to wu xie without it being tied to himself, in case things went badly and he needed to not leave such an impression on wu xie. He clearly cared a LOT about how their next interaction went and wanting it to go WELL post book 1, which i find fascinating. In retrospect then, what WAS xiaoge thinking of wu xie in book 1. I wonder.

And then this final bit, is perhaps me reading too deep into it, but Old Man Zhang specifically being old - to me that reads like Xiaoge hinting he’s maybe not this young cool enigma wu xie met him as, and seeing how wu xie will receive an older version of him (since he is in fact over 100). Its Xiaoge testing out the idea of if wu xie will socialize, still treat him the way he likes wu xie treating him, if wu xie finds out he’s not exactly the man wu xie expects. (and Xiaoge is not going to be what wu xie expects in MANY ways - he’s not as good intentioned as wu xie thinks sometimes, he isn’t human as far as he himself views things, he’s older than wu xie thinks, he’s not cool like wu xie thinks but more just very very out of touch and isolated. And to a degree i personally read, that Old Man Zhang was xiaoge testing the waters to see if wu xie would still amicably treat him decent if he didn’t meet Wu Xie’s expectations.

Then the rest of xiaoge later? As he acts uncharacteristically warm and friendly compared to book 1? Rather than testing if wu xie will like his more particular niche traits, hes testing if He can interact in a way compatible with wu xie, and if that will get him the friendship and closeness he wants - like when u act more charming to win over a person’s attention. And it largely works, wu xie overall gets quite friendly and teamwork’s in response and trusts xiaoge. In the show The Lost Tomb 2 this is almost JARRING compared to xiaoge’s mysterious closed off personality in The Lost Tomb. In TLT2 he smiles warmly, he stares directly at wu xie a lot, he jokes, he touches wu xie in camradiere and not just to ‘save’ or help him. He discusses what he’s doing and his plans for getting through a given area to a degree (aka he communicates/attempts to). He is trying to joke and be team-player around as much as pangzi (who is a much more sociable tomb raider with a lot of charisma), and regardless of how intense xiaoge is acting his main goal just seems to be to develop a connection to wu xie. This is xiaoge, and he could have showed up, said little, offered a bit of help (since wu xie Trying to be helpful to others tends to sometimes inspire it in the people he’s with), done his own mysterious agenda, then disappeared. He didn’t need to smile, or discuss any plans at all with wu xie, or compliment wu xie on his background and credentials, or even research and look into him. I expected the drama version of xiaoge to be ramped-up for pingxie shipping potential that the drama wanted to utilize. But then i read book 2. And in book 2 yeah, there’s not exactly a bunch of soul staring gazes, so as usual drama ramped up things a little. But the core element, xiaoge changing so Drastically in an attempt to connect to wu xie and build a relationship to him, is still there. He’s wildly more like a ‘usual tomb raider’ like pangzi or panzi in book 2 - talking to wu xie, working as a team, actually helping wu xie clearly on PURPOSE and not just ‘oh it happened to be convienient to help him.’

Book or drama version, im guessing to some degree its book 2 with pangzi and xiaoge teamed up with wu xie, where wu xie starts gradually making an impression on them. In the long term, wu xie’s connection to them tends to temper them both to be kinder people... where they might have shot someone to death or stabbed them, when wu xie’s around they tend to slow those instincts, when wu xie remains their team member as the stories go on, they tend to want to do these things a bit less even when wu xie isn’t around because ‘what would he think.’ At least that’s true in the shows. So pangzi is also going through a transformation as early as perhaps book 2 from “casually sociable but will kill anyone if they turn out to not be allied to him” into someone more like “well wu xie’s naive but i may not wanna leave him to die” or “well if i don’t Have to shoot xiaoge maybe i won’t since he’s technically being neutral right now and we’re both with wu xie.’ I’m curious how that transition happens in the books for pangzi. In the shows? The shows 1 and 2 speed the transition up to make pangzi a loyal trusted friend FAIRLY quickly, then show 3 Ultimate Note tempers it a little to a more reasonable pace of ‘shady tomb raider who’ll kill most people’ to ‘well maybe he’s got a soft spot for wu xie.’ TLT2 in particular speeds things up intensely, but still showcases exactly how brutal pangzi (and xiaoge) are when wu xie is not around - how they only don’t kill each other cause they’re allies, how they’ll kill a-ning and her men or other randoms if its needed without a concern, how neither of them particularly care if an immortal gets murdered by xiaoge, how they don’t personally look out for one another and think ‘you’re a tomb raider too take care of yourself and i’ll handle me cause i don’t expect u to help if im screwed.’

Pangzi is an interesting case because like... as shown in TLT2, he can charismatically act inept then fight someone and win, he can charismatically act friendly then betray someone (he often uses looking incompetent, or seeming friendly, to get himself out of traps or save wu xie or get the chance to attack someone). So pangzi’s transition from closed-off tomb raider fine with killing, to emotionally attached to wu xie and wanting to align with wu xie’s morals a bit, is more subtle. Because he acts friendly to wu xie before its actually genuine friendship, and he’ll use the same ‘warmth’ to harm others that he uses without any intention but kindness toward wu xie. Pangzi’s evolution is more about getting a soft spot for wu xie, where he starts to feel he can be Himself without it always being an act, where he feels he Can risk being kind and helpful without getting screwed (because wu xie won’t screw him over generally), where he starts to feel bad about being brutal toward a novice like wu xie. I imagine once we get to Ultimate Note and the coinciding book, Pangzi’s characterization starts matching up more (but i haven’t read the books that far yet).

I’m very interested on if book Xiaoge’s development matches when it coincides with Ultimate Note’s timeline. Because book 1 xiaoge is so much of a mystery/closed off its hard to pin down exactly what he thinks about the new person he meets wu xie. Then book 2 implies he thought quite a Lot but he also seems to be putting on a different kind of act in it. If in book 1 (and drama The Lost Tomb) xiaoge is trying to come off as an unknown stranger to keep people out and at a distance, then book 2 (drama The Lost Tomb 2 sea-tomb part) Xiaoge is trying to give off the impression he’s a sociable tomb raider like San Shu or Pangzi (even though he’s not) because he’s trying to get wu xie to engage with him more. And because it’s all wu xie’s pov in the books, we don’t really know why xiaoge took a particular notice to wu xie for sure, and why he decided it was worthwhile enough to attempt to engage and emulate tomb raiders who are Good at interacting with wu xie in order to get wu xie’s friendship too. I’m wondering if in later books we ever get a perspective on why xiaoge wanted wu xie’s notice/connection, and i am very excited to see xiaoge in general unfolding into more of his many facets as the books go on. Because as mentioned, book 1 he keeps people at a distance as strangers, and book 2 he’s putting on an act (and also potentially revealing how big his capacity for chatty friendliness is given the right incentive lol).

I found Ultimate Note drama xiaoge to be interesting because he is clearly back to closed-off this-is-my-problem-to-handle but Wu Xie keeps extending olive branches to try and meet him halfway, and xiaoge tries at times to extend it back in an Honest way. Staring to try and say things to wu xie, letting wu xie feed him, letting wu xie ‘help’ him, letting wu xie start convos and HOLD him in those convos when he could easily just leave or overpower wu xie - and doing all these things while admitting he thinks its his problem, that he’s a monster, that he doesn’t want wu xie hurt, that he thinks wu xie is stepping out of line pushing this of him etc. whereas in TLT2 he was extending an olive branch just to get wu xie to be warm to him... by Ultimate Note he’d rather abandon wu xie if it means wu xie is out of THIS mess (he’s also like that in the later TLT2 portion after the water tomb). By UN he also realizes leaving wu xie won’t get what he wants, that wu xie will jump into xiaoge’s mess anyway, and they both try to meet each other halfway a bit more honestly. (and unfortunately the dramas are missing the time between water-tomb to Ultimate Note’s plot and all the development happening off screen/in the books there). From a book perspective, i’m wondering how things develop to UN’s point, and im wondering how close (or Overdone) UN’s depiction of the characterizations are compared to the corresponding book. (Because again... the shows tend to overdo the iron triangle closeness/development i personally think just in case they’re the first/only dmbj drama seen, so the audience gets iron triangle and pingxie dynamics no matter which drama they watch).

#xiaoge #pangzi #zhang qiling #wu xie #iron triangle #pingxie #meta #dmbj #did anyone ask for dmbj meta? no? lol well im dropping #dmbj novels #and show comparison meta on xiaoge's character anyway #and pangzi's #i would LOVE to read a fic where like Reboot or Ultimate Note era xiaoge acts like Old Man Zhang. acts like water-tomb tlt2 xiaoge #because we KNOW thats an aspect of his personality #we know xiaoges got a fucking degree? or at least a fake one. we know he's got a professor alias with Old Man Zhang.#we know he IS capable of physical affection starting like holding hands grabbing shoulders and desiring to cuddle #and that he can RANT compliments if given the chance and motivation #so like. has there ever been a date where xiaoge just brings wu xie's research highlighted #and they're at some dinner. and xiaoge's just smiling gushing about X and Y that wu xie wrote and asdking questions???#and wu xie's blushing cause hes a BABY compared to xiaoge and its NOT truly impressive to xiaoge who #Lived thru this stuff. right? but xiaoge insists NO IT IS IMPRESSIVE IT IS #and wu xie cracking a big smile he cant supress and blushing more and trying to talk #and xiaoge staring at him with a smile listening raptly #and then like pangzi crashes the date #and xiaoge goes silent as the grave cold eyes. as if he was not gushing 2 minutes prior #but pangzi saw him smiling like a SAP as he walked in. so he still KNOWS #like. as far as im aware? that could all canonically happen. it falls in line with Xiaoge's behavior as old man zhang #and we know wu xie's fond pov in the books is not gonna mention it. not gonna out xiaoge as a mushy dork when he's 'suave and cool' in the #pov journals lol.#but if xiaoge ever dresses in a pretty dress for wu xie? well wu xie Wont mention the particulars but he'll journal oh how HOT it would be.

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