#pevara

[wot-tidbits]

#wheel of time #androl #pevara #wot meme

[highladyluck]

Pevara Tazanovni for character thing!

#wheel of time #pevara #Androl made her worse #I loved her and Androl on my very first read and then hated them together every subsequent read #but she's a great character

[anira-naeg]

My favorite red Ajah

#wheel of time #wot art #red ajah #aes sedai #Teslyn Baradon #pevara tazanovni #my art #drawing #artwork #my artwork #art #anira naeg

[asha-mage]

WoT Meta: The Problem of Androl

I think upon reflection my biggest issue with Androl isn't necessarily his resume to rival Barbie's, or the fact that his power set exists JUST so that Sanderson can Think With Portals, or even that he is the MOST cishet protagonist that Sanderson could have chosen to be the Black Tower Pov. Those are all problems, but their not what makes me feel like Androl dosen't belong in WoT.

The biggest problem with Androl, and the reason he doesn't fit with the other characters, is that he's boring.

One of Jordan's hallmarks as a writer, and one of things that makes WoT so compelling is that in very few words, Jordan is capable of painting a picture of person as a fully realized person, with their own history, foibles and agency. It's one of the reasons that the series is packed with mid-tier and minor characters that have huge fan interest. Even one off PoVs generally feel distinct, and more over feel like living breathing characters. It's more then just the 'everyone is hero of their own story' school of writing thought, it's more that everyone, no matter how insignificant they might seem, is important, maybe not to the heroes, or the villains or even destiny, but to themselves, and to the world.

Now obviously this is hard thing to do, and I don't begrudge Sanderson for not succeeding, or for succeeding in only limited ways. (Hinderstap, for as much as it is a DnD module used for filler is a good example of making characters encountered only briefly come alive and feel like their struggles matter). But their is something in particular about the way that Androl is written that feels antithetical to Jordan's character writing.

His vague sprawling backstory is meant to make him mysterious and interesting, but a in reality a hodgepodge of concepts that, any one on their own would be interesting, but when all tied together just...make a mess. Everything that surrounds him is wishy washy and indistinct. We're given glimpses into who Androl is but instead of painting a concise picture they instead show a vicious tangled mess of different ideas.

A man who convinced a Wisdom to take him as an apprentice despite being a man? A+ Asha'man concept, would pay to see him and Nynaeve bounce off each other. A man who always suspected The One Power ran in his family and came to the Black Tower seeking answers on if that is what drove his father to suicide? Yes, give me forty chapters of him. A man whose sense of justice is strong enough that he joined a hopeless rebellion for a land that wasn't his own? Fantastic. A man who spent his whole life starting and then abandoning different crafts due to a deep sense of dissatisfaction, and a yearning for purpose and meaning that was never fulfilled until he found The Black Tower? Amazing.

All of those men being one man? The interconnections never properly being explained or totaled out? That's....to much. And it reveals the hand of the author, reveals that Androl's character isn't so much about exploring ideas or themes, but about being whatever Sanderson needs him to be at that moment. His character comes to feel paint-by-numbers, and as a result, incredibly boring to read about. He is a variable in an equation first, a character second, and fully realized and fleshed out never.

The truly, truly infuriating thing about Androl though, is that he is largely unnecessary, as the ideal Black Tower PoV already existed in the form of Emarin. First appearing in Crossorads of Twilight, Emarin(/Algarin) a Lord of Tear who did not fear the Power, a man whose brother was gentled by the Aes Sedai, but who lived years afterwords thanks to Cadsuane's compassion. A man who upon learning of the Cleaning took up his brothers name, and left behind his family's noble title and power, in order to The Black Tower and live his brother's dream in his stead. That concept, introduced in SINGLE paragraph in CoT is far far more compelling then all the pages of Androl put together. And that's assuming that their is some reason Logain couldn't have just been the Black Tower PoV- which I am not necessarily convinced it the truth. (Yes, the Almost Turned the Shadow thing is kinda important to show the 13x13 trick and to give the Dreadlords narrative weight, as well as to the contextualize Logain's choice to walk away from the sa'angreal at the end, but I feel like that could have still been done with Logain as the main Black Tower PoV over Androl).

As an aside, a part of me, a very petty part that I don't necessarily think is rational, wonders if the reason that Sanderson didn't take up the opportunity offered by Emarin was that, Emarin is the rarest of all WoT creatures: a canonically gay male character. The knowledge that it was Sanderson that cannoized his being gay mitigates that voice, but the knowledge that Jordan's notes contained many characters unstated sexualities keeps it from disappearing whole cloth.

Anyways Androl is boring to read about, and Pevara deserved a lot better.

#WoT #WoT Meta #Wheel of Time #Wheel of Time Meta #AMOL Spoilers #WoT Book spoilers #androl genhald #pevara tazanovni #Emarin Pendaloan #Logain Ablar #Asha'man #A Memory of Light #sanderson critical

[cervinelich]

My Wheel of Time hot take is that I liked Robert Jordan's writing more in a lot of ways and I felt like Brandon Sanderson dropped the ball on many of the characterizations (*especially* Mat).

I think Sanderson certainly wrote the fights in a more cinematic and cathartic way - a talent he definitely has is that all battles have layers to them that tie into peoples arcs and the overall theme and are not just "a fight has to happen now" (looking at you RJ).

Sanderson's characterization outside of that leaves much to be desired, though, and imho he flat out ruined some of my faves (Elayne, for instance). I think while he cut out some of the sexist faults of RJ like the constant spankings and "folded arms under the breasts", he also seemed to struggle with relationships between characters feeling real rather than like movie archetypes.

But I think some of this may boil down to him struggling to pick up arcs that he hadn't built from the ground up himself - and this is most evident in the fact that Androl and Pevara are AMAZING and he was responsible for them from inception.

In the end, I think Sanderson's strength was also his weakness. His ability to paint movie-like images in the mind is also why his characterizations felt a little too tropey sometimes for the sake of getting a good visual "shot" or a tongue in cheek "oneliner".

#wot #wot spoilers #wot book spoilers #wot book #its fine if you disagree i know a lot of people prefer BS to RJ and thats totally fine #personally i felt like a lot of my faves were utterly flattened by BS #except oddly Nynaeve who had become Lan boy crazy and sanderson kind of fixed that in his writing tbh #equivalent exchange i suppose #also just wanted an excuse to praise him for androl and pevara those 2 are CHEFS KISS love to see it

[sixth-light]

AHHHHHHH R2J2 DON'T TEASE ME LIKE THIS

(From this interview with Rafe Judkins - link is to transcript, also has video.)

#wheel of time #wot book spoilers #pevara tazanovni #wot tv show

[bestaessedai]

Best Aes Sedai: Round 1.5

Soooooo Myrelle and Liandrin have tied!

These ideas are sort of modeled around what @thelockedtombsexywoman did with their tie. Let me know what you all think!

#wot #wheel of time #wot book spoilers #egwene al'vere #polls #i could see pitting one of them against teslyn and one against joline #and then the winners of those matches go up against each other #I also don't have Pevara or Silviana in this bracket #idk anyone have thoughts?

[alectology-archive]

Someone PLEASE explain to me how androl is supposed to be talented at making gateways but is also probably the weakest asha'man in the tower lmao

#the books explicitly say you need to have a certain threshold of strength in the Power to make gateways no matter the size I'm pretty sure? #I hate him and I hate that I'm growing tired of pevara as well because I loved reading her povs in the white tower #aelia reads wheel of time #aelia reads a memory of light

[iliiuan]

My pick:

Hong Chau as Pevara Sedai.

#wheel of time #fantasy cast #pevara sedai

[queenofmalkier]

Moiraine being 70 vs 40

(Alright this one took me a minute because corralling my thoughts is a challenge in the best of times.)

To begin with I will admit... I am one of the people who was indifferent towards the age change in the beginning. They're Aes Sedai, they live nice, long lives, and I wasn't like, emotionally attached to a younger, canon-aged Moiraine. It does make her early years more poignant, but I'll touch on that later.

Primed for older Moiraine, the show started and after two seasons I can safely say I am so gung-ho for 70 year old Moiraine I might actually be feral.

Here's why I, personally, think it was an excellent choice: Rosamund Pike is 44 as of writing this, so she visibly fits into the book age. As an audience nobody is really questioning her age - a few show-onlys I watched season 1 with actually remarked on how refreshing it was to see an older female character allowed to just exist and be part of the narrative without trying to sex up and/or grandma-ize the role.

Little Did They Know.

So you've got an audience that's mostly accepting of this character being in her 40s, and then you hit them with "Oh she's 70 and lets explore just how horrific that fact actually is together, it'll be fun!"

It was not fun, it was gutting.

One of my main critiques of the book has always been how we have these long-lived women, powerful women... but we never really take much of a look at the reality of that concept. Nor are we given POV characters who are really old enough to remark on it. Pevara at least thinks about her family, but Cadsuane doesn't give two figs about hers.

And here's the thing... they're Aes Sedai, but they're still human. What happens to them as they get older, but the people who fill their life are the ones aging? How does it feel to watch a mother, a sister, a child, friends, acquaintances, EVERYONE succumb to time in a way you won't for a very long time after?

That has to be impactful and I wanted to see those stories - and the show delivered. Seeing Moiraine with Anvaere? Chilling, horrifying, heartbreaking. Liandrin and her boy? A kick in the teeth. Even Alanna with her family, knowing very well she's probably the oldest one sitting at that table.

The point is, being an Aes Sedai means being powerful and respected, but it also means living through a very specific kind of suffering and trauma. They're basically vampires in terms of lifespan and we should see how that shapes them.

In regards to Moiraine being older and therefore not basically a child during the foretelling, it does change that particular hit... but by no means did the show let the viewers not understand how that moment altered Moiraine's life forever.

Instead of her being sort of an unformed girl hardened and honed by a lifetime of searching for Rand, one who never got much chance to be anything else, we get a woman who was already beginning to build her life, who had achieved the shawl, found love, and was exactly where she wanted to be.

And then all of that is taken from her.

It's devastating to watch the double-barreled whammy of Siuan and Moiraine giggling about being fishwives and walking into what was in many ways their deaths. Because the Moiraine and Siuan they were before walking into that room were gone forever. They would never be able to go back to the women they were before. They never even had a chance to mourn that loss. Moiraine went hunting and Siuan set her sights on the Amyrlin Seat.

I do understand for a lot of people her age is a sticking point, and that is completely fair and valid! It's a change that I fully agree did not need to be made... but by making that change we're given such a stark insight into the lives of older Aes Sedai who are just beginning to experience what it means to outlive everyone they know, watching one by one as cherished friends and family members pass on.

Soon all they have left are the children and grandchildren of those people, fractured mirrors that are just enough of a hint at the original that it must be painful to know them - which explains even further why so many Aes Sedai cut off contact entirely with their families. It's too painful to keep them in their lives.

#wheel of time #wheel of time tv series #wheel of time book spoilers #moiraine damodred #can i make it work responses

[helpitsaskingmequestions]

Continuing the process of niche petty nitpicks of Wheel of TIme  there were some narrative choices for the  7 Ajah that make them (imo) uncertain in a way that I think could have been smoothed out in a way to make more narrative sense in terms of motivation, size and narrative framing. 

Reds - 

The Reds at least have a clear purpose in and out of the narrative as Aes Sedai that hunt male channelers & an antagonistic force against Moraine (Blue) and Rand (Male channeler). They’re problems largely come in how the text largely frames them as Narrative Heels but for Pevara & to some extent Teslyn and Silviana, all of whom are introduced fairly late. Even then, the Reds are largely characterised as 90s misandrists,n keeping with Alanna’s framing of the Reds as ‘hating men’ because that's what should define a group of women, how they relate to men. Then comes the size of the Reds - it’s been noted that there are less people who can channel being discovered, in part due to the Vileness and the culling of men who can channel by the Reds (and also Cansaune) yet the Reds are the largest Ajah. That the Reds have the strongest numbers is imo a very blunt object solution to 1) making the Blue’s more like an underdog and 2) have a large ground for Black Ajah. 

Changes that I think would have made the Reds more palatable from a worldbuild perspective 

Expand the purpose - the show did this, effectively making the Reds magic cops, which provides a more concrete cause for Reds to devote themselves to - hunting wayward Aes Sedai, men who can channel and Dark Friends. It would also help explain why there are so many Black Ajah in the Red - what better way to hide from the cops than to Be the cops?

Let them have Warders - there was no reason for them not to have warders, female or male or otherwise. 

Shrink their size - have the Reds be in the middle of the pack in terms of numbers, or else have them have a high casualty/fail rate that can be explained by difficult weaves & Black Ajah sisters etc. There is no logical reason for them to be that big. 

I mean ⅕ of all Aes Sedai Robert?

Don’t define them by ‘hating men’. Robert I am in your walls

Non-antagonist Reds early on - whether Pevara or Teslyn, just some calmer Reds, who do genuinely want to Hunt Dark-friends. Use the Wonder Girls time in the White Tower not just as a box tick, explore the Ajahs more.  

Show - on page - what a male channel who succumbed to the Taint looks like. The books give (imo) hints describing the Breaking but its not seen on page & I feel that this concrete example of why male channellers are cut off from the Source, why the Reds hunt them, and why people fear Rand/male channelers would be important considering we get a lot of on page stuff (Logain, Thom re his nephew) about the pain of gentling male channelers

Browns 

Ah the Browns. Clean direct purpose. Narrative letting them fulfil that function. Ajah of Verin, the Best Character in Wheel of Time (no arguments to be taken on this point. I am simply Correct). I find very little to be changed with the Browns, though I do think that there should have been an exploratory division if this is the Ajah of knowledge. 

Also not entirely certain why the White/Grey/see Ajah colours post is separate from the Brown beyond the fact RJ was a physics major 

Best Ajah - should have had an Indiana Jones Brown/Orange sister finding Age of Legends stuff

That the Browns get warders makes the fact the Reds, a physical division actively fighting people, not having Warders more insane. Robert WHY

Should have schools/ travelling schools as well 

Why no Browns in Rand’s nerd school Robert?

Yellow

Much like the Brown, a wonderfully defined Ajah, with a clear purpose in and out of universe.

Let them be nicer to Nynaeve

Black Yellows should have been allowed to go full Dr Moreau

Imagine fresh monsters

Green

The Green Ajah - the Battle Ajah. imo Robert Jordan’s favourite Ajah considering 2 out of 3 of the Wondergirls chose the Green (even though Egg should have been Ajahless its fine I’m calm so Calm) and the Green get to ‘love men’ because as the narrative has made clear, how these groups of women from this administrative magical institution feel about Men is what is important. Also a fun experiment - check to see what colours get positive associations in the books - generally it’s blue, green and white (listed as Lan’s favourite colours for instance). The Greens are also an unfortunate victim of the Gender Stuff in WoT- the Battle Ajah don’t get weapons, but they can have lots of Men who can have weapons. Because they Love Men. 

Changes

Let them have weapons Robert ffs 

Active preparation for the Last Battle; should have the third most number of advisors/relationships in nations as Greys(Purples) and Blues. 

Why are they ignoring the Borderlands? This is their Job 

I think the show made a good case for the Greens and the Reds going to nab Logain

So why are the Greens more allied with the Blues than the Reds - other than Author Caveat

Elayne and Egwene shouldn’t have been Green. Neither should Cadsuane.

More Black sisters in the Green - if the Green are going to be fighting in the last battle it should be chock full of enemy agents  

Blue

What do the Blue do? They Hunt After Causes - but what does the Mean? No Really what does it mean, apart from being Vague and because RJ couldn’t say ‘they’re the Good ajah’ even though they only ‘like men’. Other than their complete lack of purpose, the Blues get a good history, a good selection of the Good/Great (Moraine) to the bad (Sheriam). The Show made a good change in making the Blue’s the spies of the White Tower, giving them a quasi opposing ideological approach to the head-first reds, and making the Alliance of Greens and Blues make more sense considering how much they would need to work together. 

If Egg must have an Ajah she should have been Blue 

The fact that blues removed the 2 Red Amyrlin’s, there should have been more arguments amongst the Ajah’s about how justified they were/the justice of that 

Lean into the Reds being Cops and Blues being spies/activist/journalists/internal affairs with a habit of exposing/attempting to expose other sister’s misbehaviour 

Have Blue sisters attempting to uncover the Vileness in a way that actually sets it up as a mystery to be solved, not another plot thread among thousands

I have a Bee in my Bonnet about the Vileness  if you couldn’t tell 

Make the Blues less of an protagonist situation - oh they have the second smallest numbers But the Most Amyrlins and a lot of influence because they’re the opposite of the Reds 

Grey/Purple Ajah 

They have purpose If only the narrative would let them fulfil that purpose. Instead Elaida is a Red so political advisors can be any colour so why?

Also why are they always bad at their jobs

Should have been the largest Ajah change my mind 

White/Grey Ajah 

SO

I understand they have a purpose 

I just don’t understand why/how it is different to the Brown’s search for knowledge 

They’re apparently philosophers as well so it's not a STE(M) v Arts situation

Why Robert 

You didn’t have the Seven Ajahs have the Seven colours why are they Here? 

Because Alviarin being White and the Head Black was a fun twist? 

You did that colour twist with Lanfear already 

What this Ajah needed was a major character who wasn’t Black

Like Give Rand an advisor who is this Ajah during his spiral 

Or Give Egg some prominent sisters of this Ajah? 

Have their theoretical magic that they do have an impact

Or give them the prophecies / religious theorisation - aka a reason for them to be in this story at all 

Black Ajah

There is no Black Ajah what are you talking about 

#wheel of time #wot #the white tower #the seven ajahs #more whinging I guess #for reference the Alana quote defining the Ajahs in how they relate to men is in book 2 or 3 #when the wonder girl are assigned kitchen punishment

[wot-tidbits]

#wheel of time #pevara #androl #wot meme

[amemoryofwot]

Ah hah you’ve activated my special interest! I would argue the coup is actually Alviarin’s (and Mesaana’s) doing way more than Elaida’s, who was just a convenient, covetous figurehead. Alviarin was the one who approached Elaida first after all, plus the only Black Ajah member who knew all the other members.

Basically the non Black sitters who voted to depose Siuan were particularly rebellious or cantankerous to start, and eventually most of them came to regret their decision to support Elaida. There were only four of them that were swayed, out of 14 non Red non Black sitters total. The Reds of course supported her because of the Ajah alignment, although it is unfortunate because Pevara and Teslyn are shown to be quite reasonable in the later books. The four black Sitters made up the rest of the split.

The Black did know the Dragon had been reborn from Gitara’s Foretelling, which is why they undertook the Vileness, killing many Aes Sedai and gentling any man they could find without trial.

For the Shadow this is like the BEST time to overthrow a world leader and install a puppet

#wot book spoilers #wheel of time #wheel of time spoilers

[butterflydm]

Fic bunnies for WoT...

*results not binding

#i'm not fandom tagging this because this is just me poking at myself #because i am indecisive and uncertain what to work on next #but it does contain wot book spoilers #because they're all wheel of time plotbunnies #through like idk winter's heart #wot poll #some of these ideas might eventually get combined with each other tbh

[luxolin]

No spoilers please, but I really hope Pevara is as trustworthy as she appears because I am very excited to see a Red that isn't comically evil or stupid

#the wheel of time #wot book spoilers #oh except teslyn! #i do like teslyn #but idk how favorably RJ wrote her lmaooo

[hauntedmoors]

#personally 4 and 6 hit the sweetest spots for me but 4 is objectively used to its full potential I think #egwene + talmanes is a minor minor minor dynamic that I’m very fond of tbh #I think the reason min doesn’t really work for me is that she isn’t really involved very much in any of these groups of people 🫥 #text #wheel of time #polls #q