#now to keep working on an analysis post with the rest of “glenn’s” dialogue

[silvergreenseraphim]

The Relationship Between Glenn and Rufus

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Glenn, a messenger from Wutai, appears often before Rufus. Though their conversations suggest that the two were old acquaintances, the exact nature of their relationship remains a mystery. Here is a summary of their meaningful exchanges and the relationship between them and Wutai as depicted in related works.

In the small box, it has some information on Rufus and Team Glenn’s connections to Wutai.

In "FVII Before Crisis", four years ago, Rufus lent a hand to the Wutai-based Avalanche.

Glenn comes into contact with Sephiroth, who was dispatched to Wutai seven years ago, in the opening of "The First Soldier" arc of "FFVII Ever Crisis".

Matt and Lucia, who were Glenn's colleagues (introduced by Yuffie in CHAPTER 7 as the "three ex-soldiers"), appear as captains in flashback scenes of the original Avalanche soldiers.

A small text wall next to Glenn’s death scene says:

When Rufus heard Glenn's name in Junon, a vision of him shooting a man flashes through his mind.

Text wall beside the “Please contact Captain Matt” dialogue says:

It appears that Matt and Lucia were participating in the operation to attack the Shinra Building.

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Examples of Important Conversations Between Glenn and Rufus

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Rufus: "You're alive?"

Glenn: "Most certainly dead.”

(This was a bit of dialogue in the game that was difficult to translate. If anyone has a correction for it, please let me know. It appears that Glenn says he is “Dead, of course” to Rufus’ statement).

Rufus is surprised at Glenn's survival, and Glenn responds with a laugh. It sounds like a joking response, but based on his later words and actions, it may not be a joke at all.

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Rufus: "The Governor will not stand on such a poor set.”

Glenn: "I see! Growing up a young master/rich kid is so bothersome.”

Rufus said these words as if he knew Sufur’s personality well. Glenn calls Sufur a rich kid/brat, but in Junon, he also mocked Rufus, saying, “Fond of (drawing) visions as ever, young master/rich kid).”

(I once again have been trying to receive help on this specific line because the connection here is how Glenn calls both Sufur and Rufus “Botchan,” which is an interesting term for a rich young master or boy. More in this in another post).

Glenn & Sephiroth: "Our 'Promised Land' will be born." Good (for you), you’ve succeeded your father.”

In the commentary scene, Sephiroth's appearance and voice overlap with Glenn, implying that Glenn's actions up to that point were in line with Sephiroth's intentions.”

Glenn: “As good at shooting people in the back as ever.”

A line that suggests that Rufus once shot Glenn in the back. It is also revealed in this scene that the person who had been thought to be Glenn was one of those in the black cloaks.

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My translations are rough at the moment because I am hurrying, but I trust that I was able to get the essential parts accurate.

This is not much new information but I would say it confirms some things.

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1. Glenn is dead.

2. It was a black cloak in line with Sephiroth’s intentions. Based on the other instances where black cloaks interact with Cloud with Sephiroth’s intentions, it is safe to say that this was also Sephiroth. A part of his will perhaps.

3. There is nothing suggesting that this was Jenova, as some were saying.

4. Sephiroth heavily mocks Rufus at every chance he gets and appears to hate him passionately.

5. Glenn came in contact with Sephiroth 7 years after Sephiroth was dispatched to Wutai. This is the opening of the First Soldier.

6. Rufus and the Before Crisis plot of his involvement with Avalanche has been confirmed.

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#now to keep working on an analysis post with the rest of “glenn’s” dialogue #glenn lodbrok #team glenn #rufus shinra #sephiroth #wutai #ffvii rebirth #fvii first soldier #ffvii #final fantasy 7 #ff7 #the first soldier #fvii rebirth spoilers #rebirth spoilers

[twdmusicboxmystery]

FTWD 6x08: First Analysis

Okay, let’s talk about this episode. 1) It SUCKED. 2) It also SUCKED. Anyone want to take a stab at what I’ll list for #3?

Why? Character death.

I’ll put all spoilers beneath the READ MORE. If this makes you at all worried about Beth’s return, read what I’ve written below. It will make you feel better.

***As always, spoilers abound for 6x08 below. Don’t read until you’ve watched!***

Okay, so I’m sure you already figured this out, but John is probably my favorite character currently on FEAR, so I’m super-bummed that they decided to kill him off. And I totally didn’t see it coming. The screeners talked about something big happening in Fear, but I didn’t think it would be this. Yeah. SUCKS.

But let’s discuss, shall we?

Because there was and still is a lot of Beth symbolism around John, I know that’s going to unsettle people. I don’t want this to come across as me being worried in any way, but I’ve already gotten quite a few Asks and messages, so clearly others in the fandom are worried that because John dies here, it might mean Beth really did die, too.

Let me assure you, there’s nothing further from the truth. 

I’d like you to keep the following 6 points:

1.       It’s all about the attitude of the character in that moment. (A.k.a. the symbolism can change.)

2.       His death will spur on the current storyline and affect other characters.

3.       There is plenty of precedent for killing off true love couples. Unfortunately.

4.       This was a replay of Grady.

5.       John does not = Beth in this season. Morgan does.

6.       Major clarity on the Door symbol, and that’s freaking huge!

It’s all about the character’s attitude in the moment.

This is something I’ve addressed before when looking at the dialogue various characters have before their deaths. In most cases, they accept their deaths or become negative in some way. And that’s not to say that they all want to die or try to commit suicide. For example, Dale. He didn’t want to die and he wasn’t suicidal. But before his death, he said he no longer wanted to live in a world where they killed Randal. That’s basically, through symbolic dialogue, announcing his own death.

Another good example is Glenn. There was tons of Beth symbolism and even a lot of her dialogue around Glenn in S6, just before his death fake out. Now, clearly he didn’t want to die in 7x01, and he didn’t really say anything to that effect. But the point is, the hopeful, Beth symbols around him wasn’t present in 6x16/7x01 as it was in 6x03. So, the symbolism around a character can change if their attitude has changed and their heading toward their own death.

Do you see what I mean? While there has been lots of Beth symbolism around John and June in the past, in this episode and even a few previous to this, he became very hopeless and dark. You could say he parallels to S2 Beth who also tried to commit suicide. Not to S4/S5 Beth who was hopeful and determined to live.

Throughout the episode, Morgan gives John tons of chances to change his mind, and he refuses.

One more example and I’ll move on. Heath and Tara.

I’ll admit this symbolism is a little confusing, and I had to think through it several times to square it in my head. In 7x06, Tara fell off a bridge into a river, and washed up in a new community. She lived. Here, John falls off a bridge into a river and washes up in front of his own cabin. But he dies.

We’ve always attributed the Tara symbolism to Beth, yet John died here. But Tara DID live, so which is it?

Again, it just depends on the attitude. Before Tara went off the bridge, we saw her being positive and hopeful, while Heath was being super negative and hopeless. Tara lived. She found herself in captivity, but eventually escaped and made it home. Heath didn’t die in that case, but disappeared into the CRM. The point is, something bad happened to him because he was being negative and hopeless. And to this day, he’s never made it home. See what I mean? So, it’s all about where the character’s head is at. Unfortunately, John had given up.

And the other confusing thing is that he seems to get his hope back right at the end. The last thing we see him say is “It’s not too late.” But I think the idea is that it’s just too little too late at that point. If you follow the sequence of events back, it’s clear that if he hadn’t gone back to the cabin and tried to kill himself, he wouldn’t have been on that bridge and Lizzie—I mean Dakota—wouldn’t have killed him. So his death was the result of his own actions.

His death will spur on the current storyline and affect other characters.

This is something the showrunners really emphasize on TTD. And I won’t say I’m a fan of it, but we do have a precedent for it in the show. Glenn’s death kicked off AOW. Jesus’s death happened at the start of the Whisper War. The death of the pike victims spurred Carol to let Negan out to kill Alpha. So, while I wish they’d used someone other than John for this (cuz I heart him), this is something we’ve seen in other story lines before.

Will it happen with Beth? Well, I don’t think Beth will die at the beginning of the CRM war, if that’s what anyone is thinking. But I think someone will. I’ll talk more about this below, but for now, know that there probably will be a sacrifice of some kind. I actually kind of wonder if it will be Eugene. Only because of the Sampson template. I’ve said before that I think, like Sampson, he might do something to save TF, kill their enemies, and give them a fighting chance. But that remains to be seen, of course.

There’s even a line in this episode where John says, “this river has a way of bringing people back to life.” Clearly, that doesn’t apply to him. But I think it applies to the rest of his group who will “come alive” and finally fight off Virginia’s evil yoke.

There is plenty of precedent for killing off true love couples. Unfortunately.

Another reason I know this makes people nervous is because this is a true love couple with major symbolic ties to Bethyl. I get it. But actually, we’ve seen similar things with lots of other Bethyl proxy couples.

The one that first comes to mind is Sasha and Abraham. They had TONS of Bethyl parallels. They did get together and get some time together, though not much. Then Abe was killed off, and Sasha followed him a season later.

There’s also David and Betsy from S6. Admittedly, there were SUPER minor characters, but still.

The other big one is Glaggie. I’m not saying there were tons of Bethyl parallels there, except in the fact that they’re both soulmate couples and both have death fake outs. But the point is, TWD hasn’t exactly shied away from killing off soulmate couples.

So what does that mean for Beth and Daryl?

I’m really not trying to scare or depress anyone. I’m not saying they’re going to kill off either Beth or Daryl after she returns. My point is that pointing at John and June as a soulmate couple and trying to extend this death to Beth and Daryl doesn’t really work. This is just another beloved character fatality, and TWD has given us a LOT of those.

So might they kill Beth or Daryl down the line? I mean, anything’s possible, but I really doubt it. I’ve said this before, but they wouldn’t do all this epic foreshadowing just to pull a Morales, or make them “just another” tragic couple.

Plus, it’s Daryl. His romance was always meant to be epic and I really think they’ll both be standing at the end of the series (including the spinoff) whenever that is. So, it’s not something I worry about.

This was a replay of Grady.

I’ll go into this more tomorrow in my Details post, but there are specific things here that make it clear to me that this is something of a replay of Grady. For today, just look at it this way: we have someone falling off a bridge (Daryl and Carol did so in 5x06) and someone being shot (John and Beth). Walkers are also involved in a big way. The difference is that John dies while we think Beth lived. And we can be confident in that because, as I explained above, her attitude was exactly the opposite of John’s.

John does not = Beth in this season. Morgan does.

Keep in mind that, as I said above, John because S2 Beth here. He sort of retrogressed into hopelessness, and that’s why he died.

If anyone is a Beth proxy in this season of Fear, it’s Morgan. He’s sort of “come back from the dead,” reinvented himself, is searching for his lost love (Grace) who happens to be pregnant (child/baby symbolism) and in this episode, John even calls him a ghost.

I’m just saying.

Major clarity on the Door symbol, and that’s freaking huge!

Okay, this is the big one for me, and about the only real silver lining of this episode. This is something we’ve been stumped over for a LONG time. Specifically, since they were filming S5.

Review: while filming the lost ‘white cabin’ scenes we know Emily was in for S5, and which we still haven’t seen yet, Steven Yeun posted this.

It’s a picture from inside that white cabin, and he captioned it with, “Open the door!” but then deleted it. We never understood exactly what that meant. I think most people assumed it was a tease about what might be or what might have happened in that cabin.

But this episode with John is called “The Door.”

They have this whole theme in the episode about how John wants to close himself in his cabin and commit suicide. So, closing the door = death. Opening the door = life. 

My fellow theorists and I have been talking a lot about the cabin symbol as a tomb, since 10x18. We think Leah’s entire cabin represents a tomb. Which not only shows that she might be dead/a hallucination, but it represents Daryl being emotionally dead. Closing himself off to the living and indulging things that aren’t even real.

We’ve seen other examples of this theme as well. In S4, Carol and Ty tried to stay in the little cabin, rather than moving forward to find the others, and it resulted in death (Lizzie killing Mica).

Also in S4, Sasha tried to stop rather than pushing forward. It probably would have resulted in her death. Thankfully, she came around, and that led to her not only living, but reuniting with Tyreese.

@wdway also pointed out that we just recently saw Lucille this. She entombed herself in the basement, shutting the door and leaving a note. And while she was dying of cancer anyway, she didn’t wait for cancer to kill her. She took her own life. So she entombed herself and chose death.

John wanted to do the same thing in this episode. He didn’t get a chance to, but as I discussed above, that’s why he died.

But do you see why this is so significant. Steven posting the cabin with the “open the door!” caption is his way of showing that something about the cabin in how Beth lived.

Opening the door = life.

So while I kind of hated this episode and am super bummed about John, it does shed some light on a lot of the symbolism.

Tomorrow, I’ll talk more about the episode details.

Thoughts?

#beth greene #beth greene lives #beth is alive #beth is coming #td theory #td theories #team delusional #team defiance #beth is almost here #bethyl