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linterteatime · 28 days
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Greenpath enemies! Im going to go by each area for each post for the common enemies :]
More gijinkas here!
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forrksie · 3 months
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Mosskin 😊💚
This was a commission we made a while ago for Samuel😊
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terriblyjadedgamer · 1 month
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Hollow Knight enemies of varying shapes
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flame-shadow · 1 year
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the croc plague spreads
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bluegekk0 · 25 days
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how is unn doing in your au
She's doing fine. Her Mosskin are back to their senses now that the infection is gone, even though their numbers are low. She returned from her hiding and can now be found in the Lake of Unn, which means any traveler can approach her provided they weren't deemed a threat by the Mossknights. She offers guidance and teaches about the importance of balance in nature, I especially like the idea of FPK visiting her and paying close attention to her teachings; he frequently hunts in Greenpath, and considering his large appetite, he would want to make sure he doesn't overhunt or damage the ecosystem in other ways. So they are on friendly terms, I'd say - Unn has always been a very peaceful godly being, and considering FPK has no powers anymore, she wouldn't see him as a serious threat either, as long as he doesn't pose a threat to Greenpath itself.
WL's presence in Queen's Gardens is a bit of an inconvenience for Unn, especially with the tension between the Mantis Traitors who now serve her and Unn's Mosskin, which is especially felt at the borders. WL is satisfied with her current territory and doesn't seem to wish to expand it, but the Mantis Traitors are clearly itching for a fight, and the Mosskin see them as hostile intruders, so it could get ugly.
Unn herself tries to remain on peaceful terms with WL, a sentiment that is shared by the latter, though it's very clear that there is a power imbalance between the two - if WL regains all her powers and decides to expand her Gardens, Unn wouldn't have the strength to defend her land, she's not as powerful as WL in her prime, and her Mosskin are very weakened.
For now though, they maintain peace. WL warns her Mantis Traitors (who are now her court and protectors, so maybe I should think of a new name for them haha) not to cause trouble at the borders, though it's likely a matter of time before something happens. Whether it escalates into a full on conflict depends solely on WL and Unn, and with the former's desire to spread her roots and breed, which I interpret as something more like what plants do as opposed to wanting actual children, there's a hint of uncertainty in the air.
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kyuremking · 3 months
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vulturereyy · 6 months
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Made a new HK oc
Her name is Aphid and she's a mosskin trying to make it as a scribe apprentice in the City of Tears
She is also. So tired
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reksink · 1 year
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Beasts of Moss, Fungus, and Fluke
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citizenoftmrrwlnd · 5 months
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recipe kit for : a mountain dragon made of moss with extremely spicy and extremely sweet recipes
1. indian green curry 2. copycat pf chang's spicy green beans 3. pork and peanut dragon noodles 4. pistachio pudding cookies 5. cookies and creme rock fudge 6. no bake matcha tiramisu
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ask-macy-the-mossfly · 11 months
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[It's Mosskin Thursday!!]
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[[The mosskin must be working hard to repair what was damaged amongst the undergrowth so some appreciation is deserved!!]]
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Round 5: Quarterfinals!
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Why vote and reblog? Look here!
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papi-leon · 2 years
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trust
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rainbow-scarab · 7 months
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Wilds Beyond: the vision of Hallownest and its implementation in the west
aka why the mantises hate the White Lady
This is a theory post about western Hallownest. It’s partially an overview of each region. But more than that, it’s about how each region relates to Hallownest—the expansion of the kingdom, its central government, the vision of Hallownest that the Pale King tried to implement, and how it was only ever partially successful. It’s also about the White Lady and what her role she played, and that’s the point at which I jumped off when writing.
Table of Contents:
0. Intro
Pilgrim’s Way
Mosskin and Queen’s Gardens
Monomon and Wilds Beyond
Monomon and the Vision of Hallownest
Deepnest
Mantises
The White Lady and Traitor Mantises
Intro
So. I’ve been thinking about the White Lady and her role in Hallownest.
She’s talked about less than the Pale King. She’s farther away from the center of the Kingdom. In the game, she’s hidden away in her own garden, a place that seemingly got little traffic from the average bug.
What did she do? Did she keep out of politics, reclusive? I don’t think so.
The Pale King himself was said to be reclusive. Even so, he must’ve made decisions, presumably ran the kingdom with some level of success. Symbols of his power can be found everywhere throughout the kingdom. Even if he kept mostly to the palace, he was the seat of power. He did not need to be in most places I’m sure, having others in his government who could travel.
The Queen, we know, was out of the palace at least some of the time during Hallownest’s height, visiting Queen’s Gardens. I will argue that she was involved in politics, and that her location does have some significance.
Hallownest can be roughly divided into two halves.
On the eastern side, we have the social/political/cultural center of Hallownest civilization, the City of Tears. Also on the east we have the waterways, Kingdom’s Edge, Ancient Basin and the Abyss, and the former Radiance territories of Resting Grounds and Crystal Peak. On the eastern side of the City, we have King’s Station.
On the west side of Hallownest, we have Greenpath, Queen’s Gardens, Deepnest, Fog Canyon, and Fungal Wastes. Deepnest is not politically part of Hallownest. Greenpath and Fungal Wastes are home to three peoples between them who maintain distinct identities from the rest of Hallownest. Fog Canyon has jellyfish, who don’t have much info on them (but I will be touching on them later). Queen’s Station can be found in between Fog Canyon and Fungal Wastes.
(Maybe I could divide the kingdom in three instead—with Deepnest, the Abyss…Ancient Basin? The Hive, maybe? It all roughly corresponds with the sections of the three Dreamers, and how the Hive used to be “Deepnest east”. But I digress—I’ll be keeping to roughly two sides for simplicity’s sake in this post)
In other words, one side is under the King’s influence, and fairly well established as “Hallownest”. The government, the City, and the moths, who changed allegiance to the Pale King, and tried to forget their old god. I’m gonna put the Crossroads in this category as well even though it’s more center than east. The other side, the west, is much more poorly connected to the Hallownest government. But it does have association with the White Lady, with Queen’s Station and Queen’s Gardens.
(And then there’s Howling Cliffs/King’s Pass/Dirtmouth. Which hell, I could even divide all this into four sections if I wanted. Those areas aren’t particularly important for this post though. I’ll just consider them closer to the eastern side just because there aren’t so many people and there’s no other rival power/people to try to exert significant influence. But again, it’s really not particularly relevant for my purposes here)
Pilgrim's Way
Ellina the Chronicler, in The Wanderer’s Journal:
The Pale King apparently took great interest in civil engineering, as evidenced by the complex building projects found throughout the far reaches of the kingdom.
The Old Stag says explicitly it was the Pale King “who ordered the building of the stagways and stations” (King’s Station dialog).
With the stag stations, the tramways, and other large infrastructure projects like the Royal Waterways, Ellina was clearly correct. There’s one other sizable project that caught my attention as well: The Pilgrim’s Way.
I saw this video by Lifeblood Core a while ago about the Pilgrim’s Way. In it, they speculate on various functions the road may have served. Among other things, the road may have been a way for the Pale King to assert his claim on the areas the road runs through. I am particularly interested in this point for this post.
Lifeblood Core points out that reference to pilgrims in its name may mean there was a religious aspect to it as well. He was, after all, worshipped by the citizens. With political and possibly religious aspects (such things already intertwined with his status of god king), as well as the king’s known interest in similar projects, I’d say he must’ve been involved at least at the planning stage.
(I do recommend giving the video, and their other videos, a watch! It’s only 3 minutes long)
There are signs marking the beginning and end of Pilgrim’s Way:
1. The Pilgrim's Way Travellers of Hallownest, descend through verdant wilds and fungal groves to the city at this kingdom's heart. There all wishes shall be granted, all truths revealed.
2. Here ends the Pilgrim's Way. Hallownest's Heart lays open before you. Proceed onward to share in its glory.
I’ve marked what seems to be the path the Pilgrim’s Way takes on the map below.
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There are various signs along the path which I’ve numbered, 1 and 2 being those at the beginning and end as were already mentioned. I’ll be referring to other numbered signs as I go. The route is marked by roads and architecture in the style of Hallownest, as opposed to architecture from Unn’s people or the mantises (who have their own distinct styles), or other areas lacking such structures. There are a few areas with Hallownest architecture branching off of the path, but they don’t go far so I’ve mostly left them unmarked. I’ve marked a few connections to other modes of travel with stars. Greenpath Stag Station and Queen’s Station are both along the road. The road also goes by the lift that connects the Crossroads with City Storerooms (even though the door between the lift and Fungal Wastes is closed, unable to be opened in game, presumably it was once open).
Pilgrim’s Way is definitely not a very direct route to get to the City of Tears. If you were around the start of the road in the Crossroads when the kingdom still thrived, you could easily take something like the lift or a stag to get to the City.
It’s possible that most of the people traveling the road were using it to get to and from places along the route itself—in Greenpath, Fog Canyon, or Fungal Wastes. But the signs at the beginning and end assume one will start in Crossroads and end in the City. The territories the road travels through, being referred to as “wilds” and “groves”, seem to be treated as just places to pass through on your way to a supposed true destination, a City that brings glory to its inhabitants.
However, those areas along the path do have real people living there; they’re not just empty wilderness. Those peoples, though part of territory claimed by Hallownest, maintain their own identities. As Lifeblood Core says in their video, these societies make clear that even though the road goes through their lands, off the road it still belongs to them. We have this warning from the Mosskin right beside the road:
3. Those who stray from the White King's roads shall face the law of Unn
Even currently, with the Mosskin infected, their dreamnail dialog indicates they still think of Unn. One of the lines is even “Protect the road of Unn...”. That, and the name of Greenpath having “path” in it, does seem to indicate they have their own roads. It’s unclear whether these roads are more metaphorical (such a spiritual path, perhaps as ones who follow Unn) or literal (and perhaps something only recognized by those in the know, or currently overgrown by unchecked vegetation). Regardless, the Mosskin draw a line between their roads and laws and the Pale King’s.
The mushroom people seem a bit warmer, though more passively accepting than enthusiastic:
4. Warily shall we accept the will of the Wyrm. Its prescience shields us. Fate and Future we shall entwine.
7. Strength in the shared self. Strength in the mind united. In every bug that would pass upon our roads, only the melancholy of disparity.
Such messages would be for their own people and not others, as you need the spore shroom charm to read them. Both messages are next to the road. The mushroom people maintain their own identity, distinguishing themselves from the bugs that come through, but “our roads” seems to be an acceptance of the Pilgrim’s Way, at least somewhat. They may think of the territory as theirs, claiming the sections of Pilgrim’s Way in Fungal Wastes as theirs. Still I consider this as wary acceptance of their place in Hallownest, to consider something built by the Pale King theirs, rather than the sharp distinctions made by the Mosskin.
The mantises are about as warm as one would expect:
5. Wanderers seeking death, welcome. May you find swift end upon our claws.
It’s no secret in game that the mantises have poor relations with Hallownest, though they have a treaty. Note that Pilgrim’s Way doesn’t go through their territory at all. I doubt they would tolerate that.
I’ll be returning to these points, and examining each area of western Hallownest one by one.
Mosskin and Queen's Gardens
There’s one last sign I marked on the map of Pilgrim’s way, from the Mosskin:
6. Though once our lands, a pale being lays claim to the caverns ahead. It may appear benevolent but it does not share our dream. Be wary to wander that place.
The area with this sign is a fair ways away from the Pilgrim’s Way, probably something meant to be read among the Mosskin themselves. It’s at the only connection between Greenpath and Queen’s Gardens.
(A connection which, I may point out, is closed from both ends, with stones held up by vines. I assume such things were put in place by the Mosskin. The sign is in between these two roadblocks)
As the sign says…Queen’s Gardens used to be a part of Greenpath. The White Lady is indicated as not being of their people, someone to be wary of even if she seems nice. Do they consider it false nicety? Are they wary merely because she is different from them? It’s hard to say exactly how much one thing or another influences their thoughts, but it does seem clear they are unhappy that she inhabits their former lands. Though “inhabits” is a weak word for it. “Lays claim”, they say. This suggests to me that the ownership of the land is something she asserts for herself, and that those who wrote the sign do not agree.
How she came to hold Queen’s Gardens is uncertain. I already find it a mystery where the White Lady even came from in the first place. Is her presence in Queen’s Gardens a result of negotiations between Hallownest and Greenpath? Was there conflict? Had Unn already been distant from her people, and the White Lady was just able to move in and no one would dare contest a god for it? It’s hard to say, only that whoever wrote that sign does not like it, and, I would say, considers Greenpath/the Mosskin the more legitimate owners of Queen’s Gardens.
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Mosskin do not seem to live in Queen’s Gardens by the time of the game*. The intelligent species we do see there are the infected mantises and spiny husks. The mantises were surely not originally there, arriving after they split from the main mantis tribe sometime after the infection came. The spiny husks seem to be alternate versions of what you might call “standard Hallownest bugs”**…whatever species is prevalent in places like Crossroads and the City of Tears. These bugs are called “overgrown” so I assume they did not used to have all that vegetation on them.
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The nonintelligent creatures of the area include alubas, durandoos, fool eaters, loodles, maskflies, mosscreeps, and mossflies. Most of those are also found in Greenpath, and the ones that aren’t (loodles and mossflies) are visually/thematically similar to the rest.
I can only assume the Mosskin used to live there. The environment and creatures are similar to Greenpath. It was part of their territory. I don’t know why they wouldn’t have inhabited it when it was still theirs. But there’s no trace of them there anymore.
The region is almost half the size of current Greenpath. Its loss must’ve had a large impact on the Mosskin and possibly a large displacement of their people, if they all left when the Queen took control of it.
The Old Stag says, of Queen’s Gardens Station:
It was not often used by the common bugs, being a well-guarded retreat for our late Queen.
This makes it sound like, rather than be a populated territory ruled over by the Queen, the whole area was set aside for her personal use. I can only guess that most bugs found within were either visitors, or guards meant to protect the Queen. Excepting again the traitor mantises.
Due to the spiny husks, I wonder if those who visited were not from Greenpath but instead from the heart of Hallownest. Perhaps higher ups with connections to the Queen? Tourists? Later wanderers? It’s uncertain. The corpse of the rich bug from the Tower of Love can be found there as well, though the spiny husks do not share the fancy clothes.
The Mosskin may have left under their own power. They warn each other, with the sign connecting the two formerly-united regions, to be wary. They also may have closed it off themselves. It’s hard to say, ultimately.
*Moss Prophet and followers are technically in Queen’s Gardens, but there’s a (breakable) wall in between the building they’re in and the rest of the region. And then in the opposite direction, just outside the building, there’s another wall you have to break to open up into Fungal Wastes. There are also two breakable floors that go into Deepnest. How anyone got into that building when all exits are sealed off I have no clue.
**One caveat to “standard hallownest bugs”. The Spirit’s Glade in Resting Grounds has a huge diversity of bugs in it. Such diversity is not found elsewhere in the kingdom. There are limitations in game design that mean…well…you reuse some of the same things, like simple enemy designs. The spirits in the glade were kickstarter backers so each got special attention that is not given to each individual husk throughout Hallownest. Even so. When we do see those “standard hallownest bugs”, the more simple designs we see over and over in game, we might contrast them with those who don’t fit that design, like the mantises. I will be mentioning these “standard” bugs quite a bit, to signify those predominant in places like Crossroads and the City.
Monomon and Wilds Beyond
Fog Canyon is home to the jellyfish: the oomas, uomas, Monomon, and Uumuu. There’s not much information on them given in the game. Cornifer finds them strange. The Hunter just kinda gives in to wild speculation before giving up on understanding what they are. The dreamnail dialog of the oomas and uomas is only “Monomon”, and the Hunter is creeped out that he “can’t see where they keep their thoughts”. The Hunter’s Journal and Hall of Gods recognize Uumuu as intelligent though, even as both remark upon its strangeness. Uumuu does have actual sentences in its dreamnail dialog (though also thinks of Monomon).
Monomon herself is, of course, clearly intelligent. She probably had a hand writing the strange records found in the Archives, with their odd word usage in seemingly scrambled order. She can certainly write in a more usual fashion though, as she wrote the Elegy for Hallownest. She also has dialog alongside the three Dreamers, as well as dreamnail dialog.
Monomon is the biggest representative we have for all of Fog Canyon. It’s not a huge area. It’s only inhabited by jellyfish (and, okay, Millibelle and one dead snail shaman). It contains the Archives and little else. The Archives are quite unique architecturally, and don’t have the same style/symbolism typical Hallownest architecture has. But even so, she aligns herself with Hallownest, perhaps the most of any individual that can be identified as a native of western Hallownest. Quirrel says:
Within these chambers the Teacher sought to store the Kingdom's knowledge and at its core, she stored herself.
Her dreamnail dialog, when you enter her dream:
...For diversity, a Seal... ...A world forever unchanging... ...the Seals, must break... ...Forever... ...Forever... ...Better, an end...
Monomon, the teacher. One who prizes knowledge and change and diversity. There must have been something she found in the Kingdom of Hallownest that she liked. Its people, certainly, for that is what gives rise to diversity, and brings more knowledge. But it seems beyond just that.
The Elegy for Hallownest:
In wilds beyond they speak your name with reverence and regret, For none could tame our savage souls yet you the challenge met, Under palest watch, you taught, we changed, base instincts were redeemed, A world you gave to bug and beast as they had never dreamed.
The meaning of this poem is much discussed when it comes to Hollow Knight lore. I won’t be going over all of its implications. But two things stand out to me here. One, is that she seemed to like the vision of Hallownest, as it was under the Pale King and White Lady. Something that was taught, and created change in the creatures that live there. Later, as the land was put in stasis, she preferred it to end, according to what she valued.
Second…the implication for “wilds beyond”. What does this refer to? Typically, I see it interpreted as being in reference to what lays outside of Hallownest.
Some of the game’s lore, tablets written by the Pale King, addressed to higher beings, indicate that there’s nothing outside of Hallownest. Yet we do know in game that some characters came from outside. And surely in its heyday the kingdom would’ve gotten visitors from outside, as the Pale King a beacon bringing them in. And Monomon would have to know somehow, to write this poem, what those outside Hallownest thought in order to write about their opinions.
Or so I thought. In investigating western Hallownest, I came to an alternate interpretation. Remember, again, the sign at the beginning of Pilgrim’s Way:
Travellers of Hallownest, descend through verdant wilds and fungal groves to the city at this kingdom's heart.
We also have these words from Quirrel, in Queen’s Station:
I'd not expected to discover so huge a Stag Station after that foggy descent. The bugs of Hallownest must've been an impressive lot, building such grand structures so far into these wilds.
This word, “wilds”. It’s used here to refer to Greenpath and Fog Canyon at the very least. And with Fungal Wastes being described with such words as “wastes” and “grove” (“forests” too in the mantis warrior journal entry), I think there’s a theme here. All of these words have connotations of both nature and lack of people/civilization*.
Monomon lived within Fog Canyon…right in the midst of these places called wild. Her calling was to collect knowledge for the Archives. She was in position to hear the thoughts and opinions of a huge variety of bugs. Especially those in western Hallownest, who are, it seems, considered to be more remote.
The interpretation of “wilds beyond” to refer to outside of Hallownest is not necessarily incorrect. It certainly can refer to that. But I just keep noticing the way western Hallownest is spoken of, over and over. Wild. Remote. Something more foreign to the bugs in what is called the kingdom’s Heart, the City of Tears. I think the phrase has its strongest ties to western Hallownest even if it could possibly encompass a region greater than that.
The Old Stag has this to say on Queen’s Station:
This place was a bustling hub of travel, well-placed for travellers visiting the outer edges of the land. You're quite the explorer to find this place.
Even if some like the Old Stag are speaking as if these areas are remote (“outer edges of the land”, suggesting you’d have to be an explorer to find it), it seems they did get a fair bit of traffic. Even so, these bugs are said to be “visiting”, rather than living in. It seems the native inhabitants of western Hallownest did not use Queen’s Station as much.
One thing I kept noticing is that Hallownest is considered large, with many regions. Even if the map may seem small by the time a player has traveled its length a few times, it is of course meant to be an entire kingdom. There are various peoples within, each with their own histories and cultures. Even those native to the kingdom may be called travelers when they move through its various regions. They may get horribly lost when outside of their native regions. I wrote a whole post on this to illustrate this point.
What I noticed was, so many bugs, “standard Hallownest bugs” that is, had left their home regions and died. Their last thoughts had been about how lost they were, or other such conditions about how they died, perhaps trying to flee the infection. The highest concentration of them are found in western Hallownest, seemingly somewhere foreign to them, that they sadly did not survive.
The Wander’s Journal makes mention of Queen’s Station as well:
Queen's Station is especially impressive, given the inhospitable environments it links. To have constructed such a spacious Stagway station so deep into Hallownest with minimal impact on the surrounding landscape is truly a monumental achievement.
Similar to what Quirrel says, but with some extra detail. Inhospitable. Clearly, these areas were fine enough for their native inhabitants. But to some, it was deadly. Some who tried to flee the infection into the western regions may have died from that very infection…but some died to the environs themselves.
A bit more dialog, from dream warrior Elder Hu:
Have you come to tame this savage, ruined land? Many have come to purify this place, but all who dwell here are eventually consumed. Yes, even the wild bugs lurking below us. They were once proud like you, but now they are only monsters. Beware dreams of glory, child. Turn back, and do not return.
Elder Hu is a bit complicated. In developing this post, I ended up with so much to say on him I had to take some of it out and make it its own post. In summary, I do not think he was from Fungal Wastes, nor does he seem to primarily be treating native inhabitants of Fungal Wastes in his capacity as healer. His journal entry indicates that he traveled around Hallownest to treat the infected, though in my interpretation he may have focused on Fungal Wastes in particular.
There’s still a fair bit more to say on him though. In his dialog, we see him speaking of Fungal Wastes as “savage”, and the mantises as “wild”.
Elder Hu was most likely infected when he died. His words here are still affected by a warped perception. He died trying to “purify”** the mantises, and only realizes his mistake after you defeat him…that is, that the mantises were fine all along, and he was the infected one.
It’s quite possible he only describes the area as a “savage, ruined land” due to his warped mindset. But when he says “even the wild bugs lurking below us”….it seems as if he expects “wild” is a normal thing to call those bugs. The way “even” is used in this sentence indicates that the “wild” bugs being infected is an unexpected outcome to him. This suggests to me that even if he correctly identified the mantises as uninfected, he’d still be calling them “wild bugs”.  Though he calls them proud, he thinks them wild no matter what.
He expects that Ghost has come, from outside Fungal Wastes, to “tame” or “purify”, and says that others have before. In the Hall of Gods, he’s called the god of “travellers and sages”. This suggests to me that he himself is from outside Fungal Wastes. I wonder if the primary people he tried to help from the infection were the more “standard Hallownest bugs”, due to considering the mantises only secondarily in his speech. Possibly the mushroom people, though being called a god of travelers makes me think it was of those who may be non-natives to the region.
Elder Hu also calls the area a “land”, rather than just being a subsection of the kingdom. There are a couple other instances of similar wording:
Willoh, of Queen’s Station: This place must once have been quite the hub, built at the border between two lands, that misty drop to one side and those bulbous growths another.
Mato dreamnail: My brother, Sheo... how fare you in that green kingdom of thorns you call home? I think of you every time I raise my nail...
All of this to say, the picture I’m getting is that Hallownest has certain regions that are seen as more “standard”, more “normal”, areas like the City or Crossroads, full of bugs and their culture and norms, by which other regions of Hallownest are compared against. Those bugs view western Hallownest as more remote, more wild, and more foreign, even as these regions may be called a part of Hallownest. It may partially be due to higher amounts of vegetation, but even the native bugs may be called “wild”.
*To be fair, the Mosskin are by their nature concerned with greenery, so you might call their territory wild in that sense, rather than one lacking in people/civilization. But it doesn’t seem to be just about greenery. For Quirrel to think it’s impressive for Hallownest to build structures “so far into these wilds” suggests to me that it is the fact that it’s far from what’s considered….more “real” Hallownest? Far from its center, the City, against which the rest of Hallownest is compared.
**There is one darker possibility. The thought that the primary method of “purification” is to kill the infected. Elder Hu is a warrior, after all. And it may very well have been part of what he had to do. Anyone working with the infected should’ve been able to defend themself due to the violent nature of the infection. Now, due to his journal entry, mentioning him “tending to those affected by the plague”, I would like to think he legitimately tried to heal the infected if he could. But his wording when first speaking to Ghost, “beware dreams of glory”, does make me pause. One does not typically seek glory through medical service, but is a word frequently applied to battle. Did some bugs try to pick fights with the infected for their own glory? It’s quite possible…
Monomon and the Vision of Hallownest
Looking at the Elegy for Hallownest again:
In wilds beyond they speak your name with reverence and regret, For none could tame our savage souls yet you the challenge met, Under palest watch, you taught, we changed, base instincts were redeemed, A world you gave to bug and beast as they had never dreamed.
Let’s assume, even if Monomon may have come into contact with some bugs from outside Hallownest, that most of those she knew of were from inside Hallownest. She lived near others who might be considered “different” when compared against those living in the Heart of the kingdom, the City. She tells a tale in the Elegy that she may have seen in action around her. She considered that her own people the jellyfish (though their status is still mysterious, at least herself and Uumuu were intelligent) were changed under the Pale King. Such change was, I think, a process that was still ongoing when the infection came around.
She likes the Pale King and what came with the Kingdom of Hallownest. She speaks positively of the changes, the teachings. She speaks of others “in wilds beyond” speaking of Hallownest reverently. Also with regret, which I assume is about Hallownest’s decline rather than considering Hallownest negatively.
And just to note, I believe the poem is addressing a personification of Hallownest. Personally I thought it was the Pale King at first, but it is, after all, the Elegy for Hallownest. It does have an extended (seemingly unfinished) version in the files, with the line “Within your corpse can still be heard the plaintiff cries of one”. This seems to be about the Hollow Knight, and “your corpse” would have to be the dead kingdom. Of course this version is not canon, but, I think it does display the intent of the poem to be addressing personified Hallownest the most explicitly.
Anyway. If she is truly speaking of western Hallownest, those areas called “wild”, then, these views are different than what I’ve been highlighting for each of the peoples. The mosskin, the mushroom people, and the mantises do not seem particularly enthused about Hallownest. But any people is capable of having diverse opinions. In the course of the game, for instance, we see multiple divisions in the mantis tribe, both in the split into traitors/non-traitors, and also Traitor Lord’s daughter going against the xenophobia common in her tribe to get together with Ze’mer.
And I keep coming back to the significance of all the terms used. That these areas are called wild, that some of the people are called wild. That someone like Elder Hu calls the land savage. And, what does it mean to tame a soul?
There’s only so much I can go over. All this touches on the topic of the Pale King giving mind to bugs, how that contrasts with their state when infected, and how they were before the Pale King. Such is a huge topic with many interpretations, and a bit much for one post.
I do think there’s something to be said about the word “tame” contrasting with “wild” though. Those words are used as opposites in the real word. To tame, to take something wild and make it not so.
I wonder if Hallownest, the vision of the world it brings, its goal…might be said to be a work in progress in the western regions. That perhaps Monomon feels herself and the jellyfish to have been tamed, to have become a part of this kingdom and its vision. But some of the others….the mosskin, the mantises, the mushroom people. They are not quite…this same level of “tame”, from the view of Hallownest society. There is a degree of acceptance of the Hallownest government. But they also maintain a degree of distance, some with more force than others.
And then there’s Deepnest.
—But before that, I’d like to mention the Hunter.
Or rather, I already have. The linked post goes over a bit more than I want to highlight right now, but long story short, the Hunter’s position on society is quite interesting to me. He is highly critical of the civilization the Pale King brings. He thinks it makes bugs weak, cowardly, lazy.
At the same time, he criticizes those like the Hive Knight for being enslaved to duty.
He pretty much rejects most if not all family, friends, or companions. Even if he doesn’t hate the concept, he’s so focused on hunting he’d hunt even those close to him.
In a world so fallen apart as present-day Hallownest, someone like the Hunter thrives. His worldview is a sorta third option to everything I’ve been speaking of.
Hallownest is a kingdom that attempted grand civilization, over vast territory, with many different species under it. And then you have these smaller peoples, with varying degrees of independence, but who still hold themselves distinct. And they have their own societies and ways as a group.
–And then you have the Hunter, who does not associate with anyone really, does not make himself a part of any group, and greatly dislikes many of these things that come with society: loyalty to someone higher, and not relying on your own abilities and thereby becoming strong.
I just think his views are an interesting contrast, especially in light of the rest of the look into the Elegy for Hallownest. What it means for one to be “wild”…isn’t necessarily something like how the Hunter is. The peoples of western Hallownest have societies. It may be how they fit into wider Hallownest that designates how “wild” they are.
Deepnest
Though “Hallownest” is often used in a loose sense to refer to the overall geographical area that covers the whole map in game, as far as politics, Deepnest is not part of the Kingdom of Hallownest.
Deepnest is situated in the bottom left of the map, as I’m sure you know. It’s directly under Queen’s Gardens. It also has multiple connection points with Fungal Wastes. And finally, there’s a tram connection to Ancient Basin in the far eastern portion.
Deepnest and Hallownest had poor relations. Due to its location, those with the highest contact seem to be in Fungal Wastes. The mushroom people say, near a border with Deepnest:
This border bounds the twisting, scratching things. Their dead sire, once of honoured caste. Their sealed mother, but the common beast. No peace with them we make.
The mantises also mention them on a sign in their village:
The truce remains. Our vigil holds. The beasts are kept at bay.
Relations have been that of conflict. It seems the mantises have seen the bulk of it, from the giant pile of corpses at the door that separates Deepnest and the Mantis Village.
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Many of those corpses are dirtcarvers, non-intelligent. Some corpses are deephunter though, which—well. Okay. I admit, I personally like to think they’re intelligent, but their dreamnail dialog is the same as unintelligent creatures, so maybe my thoughts are entirely baseless XD However, it does seem there is real conflict involving intelligent spiders too.
Team Chery, in a Q&A on Reddit:
Q: Is there any relation between Hornet and the Mantis Lords? Both the weapons they use and moves they attack with are vaguely similar... William: They do have a similar style and grace to them, although we're not sure if the connection runs any deeper than that. Ari: Although... Deepnest borders the Mantis Village, and the spider tribe (Hornet's tribe) has long been at odds with the Mantis Lords. Their weapons and attacks may share some similarities due generations of constant conflict?
Generations of conflict. Are any of these generations after the stasis began? If there’s any people that would be least affected by stasis, it’s the mantises, the only ones with a continuing civilization in Hallownest. Perhaps that includes new generations. …Regardless, it’s been a long time.
It is, of course, not just with the mantises and mushroom people where there’s been conflict. There’s the failed tramway as well.
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The corpses near the bench have the dreamnail dialog:
"...My King. I'm sorry..." "...It couldn't be built..." "...this nest rejects us..."
The failed tramway is full of carver hatchers (and of course, the dirtcarvers they hatch). Whether it was only those that made the project fail and killed the people, or the spider tribe attacked as well, is hard to say.
Again in a Q&A, Team Cherry says:
Q: Where was the Failed Tramway going to connect to if it was ever finished? William: It was part of an attempt by the bugs of Hallownest to expand their kingdom into the unknown territories below them. Unfortunately things didn't quite work out for them.
This is a bit odd to me. Seems like an unwise decision to start a big infrastructure project before you get a good grasp of the area you’re building in. Did they survey the immediate area for the planned tramway and only later did dirtcarvers and/or spiders come in? It’s hard to say.
The Wanderer’s Journal also has this to say:
The kingdom made efforts to expand into this dark territory, but those efforts were met with ferocious resistance. The ruins of a tram station stand as a symbol of the conflicts that ended this expansion. It would appear there are some places even Hallownest's influence cannot tame.
This doesn’t illuminate too much, though I’d say mention of “conflict” hints at intelligent foes. And say, there’s that word “tame” again…
I’ll touch on this again later, but for now, the timeline as I understand it would be:
Hallownest bugs try to expand downwards from Queen’s Gardens.
They meet with hostility from Deepnest bugs, leading to the tram project’s failure.
Some time later, Hallownest comes to a truce with the mantises, in which the mantises agree to guard against Deepnest at the boundary between their territories. The mushroom people may or may not have been part of this.
Even if Hallownest did not know about Deepnest when they started expanding downwards, I think the mantises likely knew. They were not a part of Hallownest, or there would not have to have been a truce (and indeed the Wanderer’s Journal indicates they are not a part of it). The “generations of conflict” Team Cherry mentioned…it may have preexisted. Or perhaps relations were better in the past, it’s hard to say. At the very least, the mantises agreeing to keep Deepnest “at bay” likely worsened any conflict.
The mushroom people may have had prior good relations with Deepnest (with the mention of the “dead sire”), but they are clear in their dislike of Herrah. What happened to this “dead sire” and when it happened is unclear, though I think this sire may have been a higher being. Whether the death of this being had anything to do with relations with Hallownest or the mantises (in conflict, in respect, etc) I don’t know, but it does get my imagination going.
It’s uncertain how outright hostile the intelligent Deepnest residents may have been to outsiders. The corpses at the door to the Mantis Village, the culprits who attacked the tramway…those are possibly all unintelligent. There was real conflict between the spider tribe and Fungal Wastes, but that may have come later. But regardless, there is certainty that there was a biiiit of cannibalism going on.
The manual indicates, on Distant Village:
In the darkest corner of Hallownest, tales tell of a mythical village that grants rest to weary travellers. Those who seek it must find peace there, for none ever return.
This does not ever explicitly get said in game, though it does explain some dialog from Quirrel, when you find him at the Deepnest hot spring:
This is a ferocious place no doubt. Supposedly, there's a village deep in the warren. Its inhabitants never accepted Hallownest's King.
dreamnail: This one too must seek the village at the nest's heart. What mystery the purpose that sees it share my path.
I had thought it was a bit odd, before I read the text in the manual, that he would assume Ghost would be seeking this village. I can only infer that he knew of this legend (and assumed that Ghost knew it too).
Of course, when you reach Beast’s Den in the village, some kind of fake “villagers” try to entice you to sit on a bench. Corpses in a nearby building, wrapped in silk, indicate how they were lied to. One corpse within Beast’s Den was thinking “…Rest…”…I presume having heard this legend too.
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I assume all these bodies were saved for later consumption.
Midwife, definitely, wants to eat you. Her dialog too hints at this legend:
Oh. Please. Please. Don't be shy. There are some nasties about here alright. Not me. I'm a friend to all and happy to serve a traveller so bold as you.
My dear. Aren't you so kind, checking again on my well-being. I'm ever the caring host. I can't understand why more don't visit in your manner.
Reference to hospitality to travelers specifically. Right before trying to eat you.
How did this legend spread? It’s hard to say. If no one ever returned, who could be telling others about it? Perhaps some were treated nicely, and let go, to tell others. In a conversation with @basilbellona, she suggested that perhaps some corpse creepers could have impersonated normal bugs by inhabiting their bodies and spreading this legend.
Regardless, somehow the legend got out. Was it early in Deepnest’s relations with Hallownest? Was it later, when society was collapsing, and perhaps Deepnest was particularly hungry? There’s no way to really know the timing. No matter what, it seems the perception of Deepnest by Hallownest was one of dangerous ferocity.
During the infection, Herrah and the Pale King made a bargain: Herrah would become a dreamer, in exchange for being able to have her child, Hornet. I’ve seen much talk about this…how Herrah had no heir, how the weavers helped craft spells with their silk, etc. It’s all a bit deep for my purposes right now. Now, I’m more wondering how Deepnest fit in with Hallownest.
It seems to me that, even if relations may have been slightly better due to this deal…they still weren’t great. Deepnest was still in conflict with Fungal Wastes. A stagline was built between Distant Village and the White Palace, but it seems it was at least partially secret, due to the Old Stag’s dialog:
On Distant Village station: Ahh, little one... Where are we? I have never been to this station. It has a strange air of danger to it. Let me take you somewhere safer, quickly.
On Hidden Station: Ah! What station is this, hidden all the way at the bottom of the world? Until I heard the bell calling, I didn't even know the Stagways travelled so deep. You've discovered something quite astounding, little one! No matter how old I grow, the world still keeps surprises like this stowed away...
Also just the fact that Hidden Station is…well…called hidden. I don’t know why keep it a secret. Perhaps if the plan with the dreamers was at least partially a secret, I’m not sure. But at the same time, Lemm says that the City switched from stone journals to writing on spider silk. There seems to have been some level of open relations. But not enough to undo the agreement for the mantises to hold back Deepnest, apparently.
There’s also the strange fact that Deepnest actually has a high concentration of standard Hallownest bugs in it. Or at least their corpses. Some of them, yes, were likely eaten. Perhaps there due to the legend. Or to flee infection? They may have come in on the tramway from Ancient Basin. I don’t really have answers here, but, hoping it may paint some small piece of this incomplete history.
My best guess is that, overall, Hallownest openly characterized Deepnest as a hostile foreign nation to protect again, even as it had some positive relations. Those positive things may have been kept more secret.
Now…the failed tramway.
The failed tramway confuses me, and leads me to draw some interesting and possibly startling conclusions in attempting to come to terms with its mysteries.
As I quoted above, Team Cherry says Hallownest was attempting to “expand their kingdom into the unknown territories below them”. This attempt seems to have began from below Queen’s Gardens, at the western end of the tram. The eastern end of the tram is in the middle of Deepnest, far from any other connections to Hallownest. The connection from Queen’s Gardens too seems like it was artificially built. It’s a vertical shaft, full of wooden (or, er, shellwood) beams. The Deepnest end is the area near Mask Maker. Top of the shaft:
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Bottom of the shaft:
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Room near Mask Maker, where you can see a typical tunnel connection trams go through, but filled in with something:
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So there seem to be a line of structural supports from Queen’s Gardens to the tramway, and a lack of such on the other end of the tramway.
If this was an attempt to expand below the kingdom, where were they going? I have to ask again…why attempt to expand into unknown territory via a large infrastructure project? I did start to wonder. If Hallownest bugs dug down from Queen’s Gardens…were they trying to connect the area where they found themselves to more known territory?
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To the immediate east of the tram, it’s more Deepnest. But if that line continued, it would connect pretty neatly with the City of Tears, only slightly offset downwards from floor level of the cavern with the Nailsmith.
As you might see from the map above, this possible route could cause a lot of trouble. It has the potential to not just enrage Deepnest, but the mushroom people and mantises as well, going straight through the middle of Fungal Core and Mantis Village. As I was theorizing above, I don’t think the mantises (and possibly the mushroom people as well) were yet part of Hallownest.
It’s possible the tram would end at Fungal Core, though. The mushroom people might’ve been part of Hallownest. I just keep looking at how well the potential line of the tram lines up with the City of Tears. If Fungal Wastes was yet to be part of Hallownest, it’s possible that the Hallownest bugs were hoping for the best that they’d be able to connect to the City, not knowing or not caring what lay in between.
Still, seems like horrendous planning.
I also wondered if Mask Maker specifically was a draw to the region. If, for some reason, Hallownest thought it important to have access to them. Mask Maker continues to be mysterious, and the tram does line up to their doorway. There’s no real way to know; I just feel obligated to add them to the pile of mystery evidence for everyone’s consideration XD
It’s also possible the tram was meant to get close to Distant Village. But since, apparently, this was a poorly planned project, and the bugs were not that familiar with Deepnest…it seems unlikely they would even know about Distant Village.
It’s also possible that the answer from Team Cherry about the tram is…not canon. The truest canon is anything actually in the game. Team Cherry has expressed before a reluctance to say too much about lore, to leave fans to their own interpretations, as well as leave things more open to future exploration. It’s possible the answer they gave is just not true. Or less thought out. Or perhaps I’m misinterpreting it. Because as I keep saying, the whole tram project seems so foolish, so ill-advised, so poorly thought out if you haven’t thoroughly surveyed where you’re building…it comes to a point where I’m dubious such a thing is the correct explanation.
Perhaps they had surveyed the area. Perhaps they did get a hold on where they were building. And perhaps, even with that, they miscalculated. Miscalculated the dangers of Deepnest, and just how hostile the reception would be with its intelligent residents.
The failed tramway is in the upper portion of Deepnest. Perhaps Hallownest bugs thought, it’s not too close to Distant Village, or Weaver’s Den. Perhaps they could get away with it, and expand their territory further, securing control of everything from the tramline up.
The Mantises
By now I’ve mentioned the mantises quite a bit.
Their willingness to kill to defend their territory, their generations of conflict with Deepnest. Who may be described by some bugs as living in wild territory, and as wild themselves, not tame. Proud warriors. Those who made truce with Hallownest.
It’s mentioned in the Wanderer’s Journal:
The people of the Mantis tribe always had a relationship with Hallownest that was tenuous at best. Long ago, they agreed to a truce to protect their village from the kingdom's expansion. They retained sovereignty in their domain, and in exchange, they agreed to stem the flow of hostile beasts rising up from the depths of Deepnest. They continue to honour that agreement even after the fall of the kingdom.
The mantises could not really be said to be a part of Hallownest, even as Hallownest would like to claim Fungal Wastes. And with the existence of a truce, peace seems tenuous, with the possibility that conflict could start up again.
The Wanderer’s Journal also indicates they didn’t want to use the technology the Pale King brought, using their own instead.
The Hunter’s Journal describes them in a way that marks them as pretty separate, in its entry on the Mantis Lords:
The Mantis tribe and the bugs of old Hallownest had no love for each other. The Mantises outlived their rivals though, and their civilisation still stands.
Again in the Wanderer’s Journal:
Though some might call the people of the Mantis tribe simple savages, their culture has a rich history steeped in traditions that date back to ancient times, long before the birth of Hallownest.
Different civilization, different culture, different technology. Sovereignty in their domain. A people that still survives, when Hallownest has fallen. The only civilization left intact.
They’ve suffered losses. The split amongst their tribe certainly a huge shakeup. It’s unknown if they’ve suffered other losses such as loss of trade, lost lives due to conflict, etc. But even so they still stand. The only other intact settlement in Hallownest is Dirtmouth, and it’s hard to call that intact when most of its residents were lured down the well by their dreams. The rest of the land is just disparate survivors. But the mantises remain.
I do wonder how hostile they were to Hallownest, long ago. There must’ve been fighting, to have needed a truce. And of course, the mantises are initially hostile to Ghost. But there’s a little more to them than that.
Cornifer: Very territorial types make their homes within this area. I'd suggest avoiding them where possible. Further below some strange thin creatures gave me quite a scare. They seemed an intelligent bunch. In my youth I'd have braved their caves but I fear my matured physique wouldn't be able to outrun them were they to turn violent.
Quirrel: I suppose you've already met with the tribe of this village, hmm? They seem a little distrustful of strangers... to put it lightly. They're not brutes though, no. The sickness in the air that clouds the mind of lesser beasts... they resist it. They retain their intellect and their honour, though also their lethal traditions.
Somehow, Quirrel and Cornifer assert that they are intelligent. They both know that the mantises are ready to fight, but, perhaps they had interactions that were a bit more than that. Those two bugs are both able to speak, so perhaps they were able to actually converse with the mantises. In fact, Cornifer mentions them turning violent as if it had not happened yet, though he knew it could happen. I’m not sure how he would know unless there was some kind of communication. Body language at the very least. Quirrel as well knew they had “honor” and “lethal traditions”, though this may be due to his memories instead.
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I’ve seen it theorized before that the area in the above picture was a jail cell. The bug within has dreamnail dialog of “…I’m sorry…”, and they were in this area with a closed entrance. It’s possible a mantis could get in/out better than many bugs. Regardless, if this was something like a jail cell, it would mean that “death” is not the only answer outsiders will find in mantis territory. Er, despite the fact that this bug is dead now. Presumably they weren’t dead when they were put in there or there’d be no point.
If others could communicate with the mantises and have non lethal interactions, what went wrong with Ghost then? Was it because they can’t speak? Were the mantises unsettled by their odd look as a being of void? I dunno, perhaps it’s just the limitations of a video game. Regardless, they aren’t 100% kill on sight.
As it currently stands in the game, some mantises willingly gave themselves to the infection and were outcast. They turned against their tribe, and went to live in Queen’s Gardens.
The Hunter’s Journal says on Traitor Lord:
Deposed Lord of the Mantis tribe. Embraced the infection and turned against his sisters.
I had wondered how long ago this happened, how long ago Traitor Lord and his followers took on the infection and took over Queen’s Gardens. It does seem that the infection was dormant until the Hollow Knight became infected, something that game dialog seems to indicate was a fairly recent event.
If so, then, I would think that Traitor Lord only became infected recently as well. However, evidence around his daughter indicates it was long ago. Ze’mer says:
Ahhh Le'mer, you could not know of tragedy as complete as che's, true lovers stripped apart, two worlds that could not meet. And now meled'lover, dead so long in time. Dead, so far away. Buried, moina? Ai. Amongst its hateful kin that did deny our union, that did reject che's... outside-ness.
Traitor Lord’s daughter’s grave reads, “Here sleeps the Traitors' child.”
This indicates that not only did she die a long time ago, but also that Traitor Lord was already called a traitor at that time. Interestingly, it would seem her grave was marked by the main mantis tribe rather than by the traitor mantises, to refer to her like that. It’s possible infected mantises were not in a state of mind to be able to write.
The circumstances of her death are a mystery. Ze’mer blames the mantises for keeping them apart, but doesn’t mention what killed her. Violence seems likely, due to her location in Queen’s Gardens. I entertained the chance that Traitor Lord’s daughter was there for some completely unrelated reason, before her father embraced the infection, and died some accidental death, but…well, it seems unlikely. I’ll assume she was there due to her father’s break with his sisters and attack on the Gardens.
I had to ask though. Why would Traitor Lord attack Queen’s Gardens? Why not the City of Tears? Or, why the White Lady and not the Pale King?
I spent a long time analyzing routes Traitor Lord and his followers could take according to the map, the regions they would have to go through, the obstacles they would face on the way. It was all quite long and I eventually realized it was only minimally relevant (may make another post for fun though). If it was so long ago, conditions may have been different.
But in summary. I think the area of the palace had too many obstacles on the way, and that’s counting on the palace still being there. No way Traitor Lord could get into the dream realm XD
The route to Queen’s Garden’s is simpler. And though the area was said to be well guarded…I doubt it was anywhere near as much. We can’t even see any evidence of dead guards—only Marmu (maybe???? who knows how she died) and Dryya.
(It was also pointed out to me (thank you @grollow) that if was so long ago….they may have all just taken the stag. Oh boy. What a sight that would’ve been XD Yes please take hundreds of us to Queen’s Gardens all at once. No you may not ask why)
More than all this, though. I think Traitor Lord may have had reasons other than convenience/accessibility to go after Queen’s Gardens.
The White Lady and Traitor Mantises
Queen’s Gardens is an area primarily set aside for the White Lady. Various characters refer to it as the Queen’s retreat, estate, or sanctuary, suggesting it’s mostly for her personal use. It’s in a central location in western Hallownest, connecting to Greenpath, Fog Canyon, Fungal Wastes, and Deepnest.
The Queen’s presence can be shown throughout the western Hallownest beyond the Gardens. Not only do the Gardens have a stag station, but there’s also one named after the Queen in between Fog Canyon and Fungal Wastes. As I was mentioning earlier, it seems the attempted expansion into Deepnest happened through Queen’s Gardens. I’ve also noticed that a portion of Pilgrim’s Way, the shrumal ogre arena in Fungal Wastes, is a small garden of its own, with plants and architecture the same as Queen’s Gardens:
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To quote the Old Stag again, it was the Pale King “who ordered the building of the stagways and stations.” But as far as I can tell, to residents of western Hallownest, the White Lady was the face of Hallownest. Many things may have been on the king’s orders, or have the Hallownest seal on it in a form that represents his body, but it was the White Lady with more physical presence.
And as I’ve noticed previously, though the Pale King does have symbology throughout Hallownest, the White Lady seems to have some of her own in Queen’s Gardens (and a lack of the Pale King’s).
The true extent of her role is unknown. It’s possible she was just…there…in her gardens, enjoying the plants. I personally think of her taking part in directing affairs throughout western Hallownest. She also says, when Ghost first meets her, “Within my roots, the weakening of the Vessel I plainly feel.” She may be monitoring the region (and areas beyond).
In truth, there is very little that can be said about her and her role explicitly. It is only her centrality in the region, in the midst of all the people and events and projects, that, combined with her power and abilities, make me think she involved herself in the lives of the various bugs in western Hallownest.
Whether or not she did much, Traitor Lord brought himself and his followers to her doorstep.
And of course, there’s the fact that Traitor Lord’s daughter died there. Though I think she likely died due to the fighting Traitor Lord started, there’s still a possibility that something unrelated killed her there, driving his rage, and taking on the infection before she could even get a grave marker (leaving the uninfected mantises to make one). And if she did die after the attacks started…well, I’m sure that still could drive his rage.
I don’t know what goals the traitor mantises might’ve had. To get rid of the White Lady, for one. Traitor Lord was right there, near her location, and Dryya dead after defending from many mantises. I’m sure that he would’ve liked to get to the queen. I’m not sure why exactly he was not able to accomplish this. Perhaps the protections around her were too strong, even with no one left to guard her. He probably couldn’t physically fit into where she was. Some smaller mantises might, I don’t know. For whatever reason, it did not happen. And yet Traitor Lord still stays nearby, in a pavilion.
The traitor mantises are living in the Gardens. They have their own small settlement, and other structures and objects of their scattered throughout the region.
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Their dwellings are nowhere near as complex as what you find in the Mantis Village. It’s possible they lack the same resources they’re used to, or lack the craftspeople among their group…but I wonder if it’s the results of the infection on their minds. It’s also possible these were supposed to be temporary dwellings, but the effects of the stasis did something to them and they never tried beyond this.
I do think their minds must be affected to some extent, though. Traitor Lord’s daughter still remains with her grave marked “Here sleeps the Traitors' child.” Had they the ability and/or awareness, I’d think they’d change it.
The mantises are presented many times as having strong minds. Proud and intelligent, and able to resist the infection. I again have to wonder at the goals of the traitor mantises. Were they aware of what the infection was? Some of Hallownest’s residents were. Perhaps not aware of the Radiance herself, but aware, like the Moss Prophet or Bardoon, that it offered some sort of unity.
The traitor mantises all share the same dreamnail dialog:
...Outcast...Survive...Kill... ...Intruder...Destroy... Our lands now...
Survival. Securing territory, and protecting it.
I am doubtful that the mantises would want the kind of unity that the infection offers. The journal entry on Traitor Lord suggests embracing the infection to get stronger, though that is really more the Hunter’s musings. Still. I can’t help thinking of Traitor Lord and his followers using the infection as a means to an end.
Traitor Lord is angry, as indicated in the Hall of Gods. I doubt he was motivated solely by his daughter’s death, in the case it did happen before his infection. He got people to follow him somehow, to choose him over his sisters. I assume they wanted to avenge wider grievances.
I wondered if it was about territory, as their dreamnail dialog focuses on. The mantises possibly feeling threatened by Hallownest and its expansion, the taking over of Queen’s Gardens, and the infrastructure popping up around them.
I wondered if Traitor Lord would find common cause with the Mosskin. The mantises are aggressive and protective of their territory, but they aren’t 100% harsh after all. They could’ve held better diplomatic relations with peoples that weren’t the ones who tried to expand into their territory. Still. “Our lands now…” seems to indicate the traitor mantises are playing for keeps, and do not have interest in the Mosskin possibly reclaiming their former lands. I don’t think all this was only about a land grab. But more territory could have been an attractive factor. Definitely would stick it to the White Lady anyway.
I wonder if the traitor mantises, once able to kill the White Lady or otherwise remove her, intended to free themselves from the infection. I don’t know if such a thing would be possible. But they might have believed it to be. Again, I am doubtful the infection itself was attractive to them beyond its strength, and it goes against their fierce independence. If any species would be able to uninfect themselves, well, it probably would be the mantises. But…well. The infection has the ability to bring back even long dead husks. The mantises bodies, even if not dead, grew and warped. They might not be able to survive.
Such things are only hypotheticals. They of course were infected until the end, and never got rid of the White Lady. I just find it tragic in its own way that their goals, their vision for their future, may have been impossible from the start.
As for the main mantis tribe, I am doubtful they care what happens to the White Lady. The mantises don’t like Hallownest. But, pride, honor, and tradition are important to them. They made a truce with Hallownest. And Mantis Village seems adamant to uphold their agreement.
The Mantis Lords destroyed a fourth throne that surely once held their brother. The grave of Traitor Lord’s daughter marks his status as traitor. Clearly the whole affair was a huge upset among their people, tearing apart their society into two groups. Mantis Village calls him a traitor. Not, I think, for any allegiance to Hallownest and its queen…but instead for violating their agreement and their code of honor.
And so, we come to the end....
Western Hallownest was a place in change. Just as Monomon prized. Many peoples, with their different histories and values and conflicts. Some coming to embrace the Kingdom, some not. Hallownest civilization never seemed fully realized there, people “tamed” under one rule and vision. And with the kingdom’s fall, it never would be.
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flame-shadow · 1 year
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G5 B1 A2
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maskfly whisperer
If you, the asker, would like to adopt this design for 20 USD, please DM me. If not, this design will be available for adoption for anyone else interested after two days. :)
Edit: Sold!
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bluegekk0 · 2 months
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How is Unn doing in your AU? With FPK (and Hornet) using Greenpath as his main hunting grounds, he might have seen her.
She's doing alright, her power is still quite weak but she survived the infection. Since the threat was gone, and her Mosskin slowly returned to their senses, she finally left her hiding place and can now be found in the Lake of Unn.
Since in the AU she's the god of the Greenpath wildlife (and vegetation, though that's less relevant here), she definitely showed interest in FPK's activities in the region. Her power is limited, she was significantly weakened after WL took a part of Greenpath for herself all those years back, but she uses what's left of her strength to watch over the region's flora and especially the fauna, as the animal population slowly returns to normal after the infection. So if FPK started overhunting the animals, she would want to intervene (most likely by sending a Moss Knight to chase FPK off, as she's too weak to leave her lake).
Luckily, that's not a concern. While he often eats more than he really needs, he would never hunt just for the sake of it, and so he eats everything he catches. He respects the wildlife, it's why he kills things as swiftly as possible, to not make them suffer too long, and why he doesn't want their deaths to be for nothing. That would definitely make Unn see him in a positive light, so their interactions are very peaceful. Since Unn is now much easier to access, he does occasionally visit her whenever he's in the area. He has a lot of respect for her, though he feels some guilt about what WL did to her, even if it happened long before his arrival. But he hopes to remain on friendly terms with her, so he makes sure to respect her laws.
Hornet has always respected them, she took the job of monitoring the local fauna population upon herself while Unn was in hiding, so they have quite a lot in common. She never got to see Unn in person until after the latter left her hiding spot, and these days she likes to stop by the lake to see how Unn is doing, and to talk about the wildlife, Greenpath and other topics. I imagine she'd also be on very good terms with the Mosskin, as they respect her actions to maintain the balance of nature in the absence of their creator.
Speaking of Mosskin, their numbers definitely experienced quite a big hit after the infection, but they're doing alright now. They rebuilt their settlement surrounding the Lake of Unn temple, so the whole area is now much more lively. Granted, it's not connected to the main road connecting places like Dirtmouth and City of Tears together, the place is hard to access for inexperienced travelers, and the Mosskin are still wary of intruders, but their doors are open to anyone who respects Unn's laws. So Hornet and FPK are both welcome in their lands.
Though there is some tension between the Mosskin and the Mantis Traitors that now serve WL in her gardens. While WL herself and Unn avoid outright hostility towards each other, the same can't be said for those living under their light. The Greenpath and Queen's Gardens borders are heavily guarded by both sides now, and sometimes that leads to fights between the two groups. Not the most pleasant experience if you're like FPK and just passing through, especially on the Mantis Traitors side as they're a lot less pleasant to deal with.
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steggmatt · 1 year
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