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progenycursed · 1 year

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Unpopular Take on Radiance

Spoiler warning for Hollow knight game.

I don’t think she’s the god of dreams. She’s the god of the old light and the moths. Nowhere in the game that I can find(and I have a lot of hours) is she called the god of dreams. Even in Godhome she is only called the “forgotten god of light.” If she anything, she is the god of the sun. When you start the fight with her, she is literally the sun in the sky.

I think the dream realm works kind of like the physical realm. Each god has a territory they lay claim to. The size depends on how many followers they have, which also effects their power level. For a physical god though, the dream realm wouldn’t be as important to them compared to a god whose entire being is within the dream realm.

In the game it is said that Radiance is ‘a higher being of light similar to essence,’ but she isn’t the only higher being of light, and all gods in the game have essence. The Pale King and White Lady both have white essence. His can be seen in the White Palace dream, his dream. Her’s can be seen in god home. Much like Unn’s whose green essence is floating all around her area in the pantheon. The nightmare heart has red essence. Even what’s left of the lifeblood god in the abyss has blue essence. I think essence is a trait of all higher beings of light, life, and memories.

Mini theory: I also believe that Pure Vessel has a form of essence. In their arena in Godhome, the particles floating in the air, some of its soul, some void, then there are the circles. The empty circles, almost like the dreamcatchers of essence, but with the inside gone. As if it was hollowed out… mini theory over.

But every dream you enter is hers! Yes, because she’s invading the dreams of all bugs. The reason the Hollow Knight plan was created in the first place. The plan that failed, allowing her to continue invading dreams. In fact, it’s stated in the slobbering husks journal entry, that ‘the harder you struggles against it, the more it consumed you.’ The bugs tried to repress her dream, so the dream manifested as the infection. She was set on invading every dream she could, one that she succeeded at by the time the game starts. Thus every dream you enter, is hers. She’s not the god of dreams, she just won the invasion and claimed all the territory. Plus, the tool you use to get into all dreams, is a tool created by the moths while they were still following her. It makes sense that the dream nail was made with her power, so everything it touches, has a little of her influence, her essence.

What of the moths influence over the dream realm? For whatever reason, Radiance lacks a physical from, so if she wanted to interact with her moths they would have to be able to enter her dream. Maybe that’s even why the dream nail was created. The moth tribe seems to have a lot of control over the dream realm, maybe because their possessive god preferred to keep them close. In fact, I believe that she may have tried her best to keep them in her dream almost completely. The moth tribes architecture suggests minimal interactions with the real world. And how they all seemingly abandoned her at once, suggests to me that they all realized at once that she wasn’t that great. Maybe she forcibly held them in the dream realm. If they were there most of the time, they would have a lot of influence and knowledge of the realm.

Like how the dream realm split long ago into nightmares. But it doesn’t say the split happened from Radiance’s dream, but the dream realm in general. Suggesting that higher beings come in two forms, benevolent dreams and malevolent nightmares. A culture that mostly resides in the dream realm, would be aware of the nightmare realm, a realm that might pose a serious threat to them. I don’t think the nightmare heart is Radiance sibling. I’m not even convinced that it has anything to do with her at all. It feeds off of the dying flames of a fallen civilization, that’s why its there. I’m not even convinced that the nightmare heart is THE god of nightmares, but A god of nightmares. But that’s a theory for another post.

If she was the god of dreams, then how could she have been forgotten? If she was the god of dreams, every bug in Hallownest would have entered her realm every time they sleep. It would have been impossible to forget her for this reason alone. But it is never mentioned that the bugs of Hallownest knew of her until after she started invading their dreams. She was only known to the moths until they abandoned her. If she was the god of dreams, that would throw SO many wrenches into the mosskin lore. The mosskin were created by Unn’s dream. But if Radiance is the god of dreams, how would that work? Do they classify as her people too? Did Unn take out a loan on the dream realm to make her people? If she was the god of dreams, why would she allow the Pale King to create a dream? A dream that he would have made while her infection was running rampant.

But what of the void being her ancient enemy? I think it’s her ancient enemy because she’s been in the area the longest. Or maybe because it consumed her real sibling and she thinks it’s trying to get her too? Which is a fair belief, but I think it’s because the void doesn’t like any higher being of light, or light in general. It somehow convinced the lighthouse keeper to turn off the light. Then took that chance to wrap its tendrils into the kingsmold armor in the palace grounds. Invaded the Pale Kings dreams, yet left all the people within and even the dream itself alone. Instead went straight for the throne room, melted all his void guards, and killed him. Filling the room that should be the brightest, and left void particles floating after it was done with him. The void even strikes out at vessels, because even though they are mostly void, they are still the offspring of two beings of light.

Mini hypothesis: What if all the giant bug bodies were other gods that came to the area? What if they all fell to the void? Hypothesis over.

TLDR: no where in the game is Radiance called the god of dreams. She just took over all the dreams because the Hollow Knight plan that was to stop her from doing this, failed. Her being the god of dreams doesn’t fit with other parts of the game lore including Unn’s mosskin, the Pale King’s white palace dream, and the essence of the other gods. She is just the spite filled old light and the creator of moths. Or in another mini theory, possible the godly embodiment of the sun itself, which might explain why the world of Hallownest lacks a sun.

#hollow knight #hollow knight radiance #hollow knight theory #radiance #radiance not the god of dreams #dream realm #higher beings #grimm is not her sibling #Unn #Pale King #hollow knight pale king #hollow knight white lady #hollow knight unn #hollow knight nightmare heart #nightmare heart #white lady

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ruthlesslistener · 1 year

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A History of Regions in Hallownest (with marked maps)

*Note: this is HEAVY speculation/veering into headcanon territory, because we honestly just don't know most of the details to the history of Hallownest other than architectural cues, brief one-liners, and fossils. I'm mostly just doing this to provide a visual explanation for what my rough guess is, so take it with a grain of salt.

Anyways, did anyone else notice the fact that in Hollow Knight, you can tell which tribe lives in which area of the game based off of architectural differences? How about the fact that you can tell which gods rule in certain areas based off of environmental cues? Different areas on the official map are colour-coded, which is helpful and can give us some idea of which tribe lives where, but the gods are more fickle, especially since their territories have canonically changed over time as new gods were introduced, old ones began to fade, and bloody wars were waged over the indoctrination of new followers. I wanted to mark off the ancestral regions of the tribes of Hallownest, but those have a measure of overlap with the historical territories of their deities, so to begin with, I took the map of Hallownest as it appears post-fall (aka during the game), and picked out colours to indicate the main ones that we know of so that we can keep track of how their territories might have looked over the years. I left out minor/debatable gods simply because these five (The Radiance, the Pale King, the White Lady, the Lord of Shades/Void, and Unn) are technically the only ones that we can confirm where their territory holds were via environment.

[ID: the map of Hallownest as it appears in-game, with an additional note reading 'Map of Hallownest with Major Gods Colour Coded (post-fall)' on top. On the left, Unn is marked in pale green, White Lady in hunter's green, and grey text is used to indicate undisputed/neutral areas. On the right, the Radiance is indicated in pale pink, and the Pale King is depicted in pale purple. The Lord of Shades is marked below in darker grey.]

Next, I want to indicate where I believe the major god's territories were in three different ages in Hallownest: the time of the Void Civilization (pre-Radiance), the time of the Radiance (pre-Pale King), and the time of the Pale Gods. Because the goal of a god is to true-kill another and capture/secure the loyalty of their followers by erasing any evidence of their predecessor's influence, we are going to assume that there have been two stages of records-wiping and potential civilization-breaking, done by first the Radiance and then the Pale King. Therefore, the amount of speculation decreases the further down we go along the timeline.

Hallownest as it was during the time of the Void Civilization:

[ID: the same map of Hallownest as before, but now with transparent, colour-coded blobs over certain areas to indicate the potential territories of the gods during the era before the Radiance. The vast majority of the map is overtaken by a blob of grey, with a couple smaller blobs to the left and right, and a green blob over Greenpath. The green blob correlates to the colour indicative of Unn, while the grey blob indicates the potential range of the void civilization, including monuments and void gates (which is written on it in white). A note underneath states 'likely vast overestimate due to lack of knowledge of this era'. Blue text at the upper right states 'outlier unaccounted for: Lifeblood God]

Like I said, this era is pretty much mostly left up to speculation, as we have little to no information on the void civilization other than the fact that they existed, and the vitrolic hatred that the Radiance had for their god (the Void itself). We also don't know if Unn was actually here during this time period, but I included her because her civilization feels extremely old, and because I interpreted the fact that she pulled the Mosskin and much of Greenpath from her dreams to mean that the Radiance likely either didn't exist yet, or if she did, had not yet ascended to the God of the Dream Realm.

As for the Void Civilization itself, I made a rough indicator of where it probably was based off of the location of the void, the number of strange statues and voidgates/free floating void present in the air, the composition of the walls, and the areas where large, ancient-looking beetles are found, similar to the one in the Abyss itself. The cutoff point and 'extras' written on the higher blobs indicate areas where certain members of the tribes might have spread, based on the presence of voidgates, the Black Egg Temple, and soul totems that are carved in the abyssal style, but that's mostly just tentative speculation. The tribes likely involved in this worship were the Snail Shamans (who are tied to death/can teach void spells upon death/are now very scattered/rare), and the predecessors to the Beetle Tribe.

Next is the Radiance.

Hallownest as it was during the dominion of the Radiance (pre- Pale King):

[ID: the map of Hallownest, now with different transparent territorial indicators. The vast majority of the top right area is taken up by pink, which is tied to the Radiance. A stronger pink outline shows a more canonical guess as to where her actual seat of power was located. To the left, Unn's territory has expanded, and underneath both, an area of the map has been circled in purple and cut in with slashes to indicate the fall of the Void Civilization. Pink text says 'potential extermination via Radiance(?)' with an arrow pointing to it, and pink slashes bridge the gap between this circled area and the Radiance's territory. To the right, a small circle of darker green is visible on the fringe of the map in Kingdom's Edge, with the text 'maybe WL germination spot' and an arrow pointed at it.]

How the godly territories looked during the time of the Radiance is still mostly speculation, but it's less rough than the era of the Void Civilization, as we have environmental indicators to point where the seat of the Radiance's power was, and where Unn's influence spread to the max before the Pale King and the White Lady became threats. I am personally of the belief that the Radiance destroyed the Void Civilization and whatever god they worshiped when establishing her power, which was a necessary act for her own survival, but was brutal nonetheless (remember that gods depend on worship to survive and are countered by gods of specific other elements- these turf wars are very similar to lions and hyenas fighting, in a way). In solid pale pink, I've indicated the areas that might have technically fallen under her territory after she destroyed the Void Civilization, and outlined the ares where we know that the Moth Tribe (her favored followers) dwelled. Pink dashes indicate potential areas with her tampering, while the purple circle with the dashes through it is where I believe the stronghold of the Void Civilization was, and where she might have fully destroyed them. Because Unn was also a God of Dream, no danger was posed by her and thus the two likely survived next to each other in relative harmony, with Unn benefitting from the Radiance's ravages.*

Oh, and since the White Lady's roots are strongly present in the area where the White Palace was eventually built, it's likely that she germinated in Kingdom's Edge during the end of the Radiance's reign, and ascended to full godhood with the assistance of the Pale Wyrm (and visa versa) when they were taking territory of their own.

*Note that I do not fully blame the Radiance for her actions. They were brutal, yes, and likely unfathomably cruel, but the Void is one of the few deities/elements that could kill her, and securing a territory with followers is essential to the survival of a Higher Being. I cannot judge her for this any more than I can judge a new male lion from killing off all the cubs in his fresh pride to ensure his paternity. It's just how nature works.

Now we have everyone's favorites (sarcasm), the Pale Gods.

Hallownest as it was during the dominion of the Pale King and White Lady (pre-fall):

[ID: the map of Hallownest, this time with different territorial indicators. The map is dominated by a massive blob of pale blue at the top, a sizable blob of pale purple directly below with a section of it circled and crossed out with darker green, and a large chunk of olive green now takes up half of what used to be Unn's lands. The pale blue indicates territory shared between the Pale King and the White Lady, the purple indicates where the influence of the Pale King reigned stronger, and the olive green is where the White Lady's prescence was more apparent. The section where the White Palace is technically falls under the Pale King's territory, but has heavy influence from the White Lady. Purple crosshatching up by the King's Pass also indicates where PK's claim of the land comes to an end.]

Aaand out of all the godly territories, this one was the easiest to map out, as it was the most recent and thus easiest to define. This one, however, is somewhat unique, as much of it is shared between two gods instead of dominated by just one- likely why the Pale King and White Lady managed to claim such a large swathe for themselves in the first place. Marking exactly what was the Pale King's was far more difficult than marking what was the White Lady's, as her boundaries and claim are felt far stronger than his influence (mostly regulated to the City of Tears and Ancient Basin), however his insistence on commerce and trade routes meant that his architectural touch extended all the way up into Dirtmouth, King's Pass, and the Crystal Peaks, even though his actual hold over those lands was probably held only by the expansion of the tribes loyal to him (the Beetles for sure, the Moths at least for a little bit), and the backing of the White Lady, whose pale flora are seen in those areas. As you can see, large chunks of Unn's lands have been annexed into the Pale God's power, potentially due to Unn weakening enough for them to quietly move their territorial boundaries further outwards, while the land that lead to the squabble between them and the Radiance came about from the Moth Tribe changing loyalties, allowing the Pale King the rights to the Radiance's territory. While it seems like this switch was done voluntarily and with full consent of the moths, it should be regarded with the same amount of suspicion that one should hold for the annexing of Unn's lands into their domain.

*Please also note that the Pale King and the White Lady's conquering of their lands was similar to the Radiance's in terms of necessity, in that both needed to conquer a territory of their own and obtain followers in order to sustain themselves. WL seems to have managed to do this with relatively little fuss and was on her way to slowly replace Unn as the god of greenery, however the Pale King persuading the moths to defect was probably primarily what caused the conflict between him and the Radiance. The worship of one tribe (in this case, the moths) is an important resource to a god, so the conflict arose when he tried to steal her source of sustenance, and the Infection arose when she attempted to regain her territory. Both of their actions are technically valid from a survival standpoint, however the brutality of the fight and its effect on both the mortal tribes and the vessels was inexcusable.

And last but not least, we have the potential ancestral lands of the tribes of Hallownest! In this case, I've saved the best for last, as this is the most interesting from a cultural perspective if you're not out here oggling at the gods like a biologist watching wild beasts in the field (ie me), yet is still extremely interesting if you're a specbio/behavior and sociology nerd (also me).

The likely ancestral layout of the tribes of Hallownest:

[ID: the map of Hallownest, now with regions marked over with light green, pale pink, pale blue, aqua blue, pale yellow, golden yellow, dark grey, and blue-grey. The pale blue indicates the range of the Mosskin and their relatives, the pink is the Moths, the pale blue are the Beetles, aqua is the Flukes, pale yellow is the Shrooms and Mantises, golden yellow is the Hive, dark grey is the remnants of the Void Civilization (potentially the snails/ancient beetles), and blue-Grey is the Beasts, aka spiders and centipedes. The writing at the top reads 'Likely Ancestral Layout of Mortal Tribes (based on architecture)'. Dashed lines indicate overlap of regions and/or areas where stragglers may wander despite not necessarily being based there.]

Personally, this was the easiest to indicate, as the bugs and architecture of each tribe are visually distinct. I chose to indicate ancestral regions, as the shifts in deity reign did not always lead to elimination of the tribes themselves, merely their expansion and contraction. Areas where there is no set culture or type of bug (like King's Pass and Kingdom's Edge) were left blank, as they seemed to either be transient places or areas where past dwellings were uncommon- though I did mark part of Kingdom's Edge as under the Hive's rule to account for workers leaving to collect nectar. Dirtmouth was similarly labeled as ancient moth territory because of Thistlewind's commentary on 'the caverns of Hallownest being dangerous', indicating that the moths stayed on or near the surface, and I marked off the Void because there's enough snail shells in there to potentially argue it was where the snail tribe originated, and PK produced so many vessels that they're practically a species of their own at this point, albeit one that is very much dead. They weren't a civilization, they were a family, but they were hatched and killed on the bones of a place where many likely died under the Radiance's ascension, and so that accumulated net loss was enough for me to mark it on the map.

What I find interesting to note here is that in terms of expected ranges, it actually...makes sense? The Mosskin had a large historic range because they are a historic, varied people, and though they experienced some changes after the White Lady took chunks of Greenpath, it wasn't enough to make them fully distinct from their ancestors. They're also possibly herbivorous, and thus can sustain their larger numbers relatively easily. The same can be said for the beetle tribe, as most beetle species are omnivorous and there is significant variation in the members that we see, indicating that there may be two or more species present in that tribe. The Flukes feed on detrius, and are most likely a much more recent civilization to have arose due to the plumbing installed in the City of Tears accumulating enough nutrients for them to gather in one place. Bees, as we know, generally tend to all be one family staying in one place, so they're less of a tribe and more just,,,well, a hive, and while the Mantises and Shrumal Warriors have the smallest territory, we know from the game that the Fungal Wastes are currently in the process of expanding, and the Mantis tribe is a singular-species group of carnivores with an insular community, meaning that smaller numbers are to be expected from them. When compared to the range of Deepnest, another society built primarily of carnivores, they seem very small, but one has to remember that Deepnest has at least two different species of spiders and centipedes living in tandem, and that much of their territory is tunnels and hunting-grounds instead of open space. The Hidden Village is only slightly larger than the Mantis Village, which fits with the carnivorous lifestyle (as there must always be more prey than predator). I didn't include the Oomas because they are very much not from Hallownest. When you step back and look at it, its interesting to note where the overlaps are between the territories of the gods were, and the ranges of the mortals they were so dependent on.

So there you have it! One super long post containing a detailed breakdown of the territorial boundaries in Hallownest, dealing with the generalized guess of where the ancestral lands of the tribes were and a three-part breakdown of different major god territories over different ages. Again, the only two that I'm even somewhat close to being certain about being canon are the maps of godly territories pre-fall and the ancestral lands, but its fun to think about regardless. Hope y'all have just as much fun reading this as I did with making it :>

#hollow knight #hollow knight lore #hollow knight meta #hollow knight headcanons #the radiance #the pale king #the lord of shades #unn #the white lady #i would include the other gods/potential higher beings in here as well but #we got no idea whats up with them!#if they got outcompeted or what #so this is just including the major players + unn #who we know was there for a while before she got utterly steamrolled by wl and radi at the end

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