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that-was-anticlimactic · 2 years

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sk8 for the ask game

hi hi hi i love this show SO MUCH

favorite character

... this is probably pretty obvious. but um. reki. reki reki reki reki reki reki reki my absolute Beloved. it's about loving with your whole heart and being so passionate and feeling in adequate compared to all of your friends and just. ahhhhhhhhh

second favorite character

ahhhh okay. okay. this is so hard. so imma say joe because of a Lot of character analysis i have done on him and i just love the parallels between him and reki and i LOVE his va i could listen to him read the yellow pages... but yeah, i always feel calm and content when joe is on screen :)

least favorite character

this will Not come as a surprise but ad*m. i mean, first he was mean to reki, then he tried to Kill reki... then there's the whole pedophilia thing and like the lowkey grooming that he did to miya and he tried to kill cherry and he was kind of responsible for shadow getting hurt too and also he was mean to joe as a kid (which... i have a Lot of feelings about). i mean, is he an excellent villain? oh my gosh yes one hundred percent. his va is top notch and he is an incredibly well written villain. i just do not tolerate people being mean to reki <3 please he needs therapy and jail

the character I’m most like

... reki. i mean, i kind of have established this a lot, but sometimes i look at reki and i'm like "wow we are almost the same exact person" and just. Feelings. so many of them. i could write a whole character analysis based on reki in each individual episode. i could write so much about him that's just self-projection i just. yeah.

favorite pairing

RENGA !!! RENGA RENGA RENGA !!! it's about finding someone who cares about what you have to say and finding someone who reminds you how what happiness really is and takes a chance on you just because. it's about finding someone who wants to hangout with you and doesn't think you're annoying and finding someone who is willing to go slowly with you and works through what holds you back...

least favorite pairing

langa & ad*m :) i just. mmm. no. no no no. i hate everything about this ship. the part when ad*m skates with langa and spins with him and goes "OH. MY. GODDDDDDDDD" i just. hate it here.

favorite moment

omg no 1000% "i'm not just the redhead, my name's reki! remember it!" like. WHAT A POWER MOVE. like i felt inspired when i watched it for the first time (... and every time after that...) and it makes me feel powerful and capable and it fills my heart with pride and just... so many feelings...

rating out of 10

ten... thousand.

send me a series and i'll tell you my...

#picnicbitchsokka #i have a lot of feelings about reki okay #i love him so much #the other day i was really sad and was Not Doing Well Mentally so i wore my reki cosplay to school and put my reki plushie in my fannypack #i just. i love this show So Much.#corey rambles:)

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rainbow-scarab · 3 years

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This is my take on Asgore (with a healthy side of Chara).

Obligatory disclaimer that you are free to have your own take, and I enjoy seeing other takes! In the end he's just a fictional character, and people have all sorts of life experiences that lead them to different interpretations.

Also warnings for discussions of difficult subjects found in Undertale, such as suicide, guilt, grief, psychological trauma, death, war, genocide, etc.

Asgore rates pretty low on my scale of UT character morality XD Though I find him an interesting character.

Asgore has both good and bad points as anyone in UT. He's a gentle soul at heart who likes bringing joy to others. But he is very reluctant to wield responsibility. And I believe this inaction is what's behind most of his other negative points, especially when it comes to making decisions.

When Chara came to the Underground, there was renewed hope. Asgore called them "the future of humans and monsters". For a time they all were a happy family, Asgore, Toriel, Asriel, and Chara. Or mostly. Chara was a very troubled child.....

Chara and Asgore were close, as were the rest of the Dreemurrs to Chara. But I don't think they quite knew how to help Chara. Chara must have had such a horrible life among humans to hate them so much...and then just decide to leave where they would never return. They found a loving family, and loved monsterkind. But they were still quite disturbed and probably had a lot of self-hate, both for being human and for their problem behavior. Being designated "the future of humans and monsters", they may have felt a lot of pressure.....and took what actions they thought would help monsters. Already hating humans, and humans being the cause of the monsters' imprisonment underground, on top of the self-hate, killing themselves and going on to kill six more humans in pursuit of monster freedom would feel like the best way they could contribute to a family, and species, that they loved so dearly.

Though I don't think being designated "the future of humans and monsters", a symbol of hope to the kingdom, ended up being healthy for Chara, I don't blame Asgore for this. The kingdom really needed that hope. And the Dreemurrs themselves would have been overjoyed both for that species-wide hope, and for the place Chara had in their family. It would be near impossible to be able to guess what Chara would ultimately do. It seems Chara did not open up about what had happened to them to Toriel and Asgore, and only partially to Asriel. But I think they would have been able to provide an environment of love and support to help Chara heal had they been there longer.

(Check out this post for a thorough analysis of Chara. It talks about and give evidence for Chara and Asgore's relationship. Also explains the "Chara is the narrator" theory I'll reference later)

But once Chara and Asriel took action, and both died.....Asgore became enraged. He declared war on humanity, completely reversing tone from before. Toriel left, and Asgore was alone.

In the years that followed, Asgore's declaration was followed. Monsters had great prejudice towards humans, and the royal guard kept a lookout for humans. Humans would either be killed by the guard, or Asgore himself.But at least by the time we get to him....he doesn't seem to be angry with humanity. He doesn't pretend that he will try to be friendly with Frisk the same as he does with other monsters, but...he wants to be. And he will give Frisk all the time they need before their fight. Doesn't even seem to care if it's years down the line. He just won't let Frisk pass in the end.

Once you fight and defeat him, he expresses how much he hates all the stuff about war, and just wishes for everyone to be happy and hopeful again. And perhaps...it could all just be over, and Frisk could leave the Underground with his soul. (More on this later)

To me, Asgore's big flaw....is not his declaration of war. Though that is definitely bad. One does not just declare their intention to not just kill humans to free monsters, but to destroy all of humanity, while in a position of power and influence...for that to be dismissed as nothing.

But....he was also very angry, for a very understandable reason. And....at some point....that anger subsided. And yet, he continued on the same path.

To me Asgore's biggest flaw is that he avoids responsibility and making decisions. The only time he ever is shown to make a significant decision...is his declaration of war, and it took extreme emotion for that to happen. But once back to more reasonable levels of emotion, he wouldn't even take action to reverse his own declaration. He felt duty-bound to kill humans, or else they would lose hope. Mmm...I'm not sure if that's just what he was telling himself to avoid decision, and perhaps the feared consequences of changing course were overblown. More on this in a minute.

In the past, it was Asgore and Toriel ruling together, even if Asgore seemed to the be official one in charge. As far as I can tell, they worked well together. Toriel on most of the details of running a kingdom, and Asgore, keeping up the spirits of monsterkind. Once Toriel was gone....no one really replaced her role.

(pic from Alarm Clock dialog)

Asgore did not develop the skills to run things well, and did not find anyone to help as far as I can tell. Undyne became head of the Royal Guard sometime after Toriel left (Undyne does not recognize her when they meet), though it's possible the Royal Guard itself appoints their own leadership. At the very least, Asgore appointed Alphys into the long-vacant position of Royal Scientist.

Though as seen by this bit of dialog from one of the neutral endings, merely having people in official positions doesn't mean his role as king is supposed to be over. Proper oversight would have certain made the amalgamate situation different anyways.

(There's the question of Sans possible working for Asgore. But since there's no hard evidence that I know of for this, I'm not really using this in my analysis)

Asgore still wants to get help. I think...to be unburdened from some or all of his responsibilities. Even if he doesn't know much about who he's asking help from. Like Frisk.

Ambassador is a huge responsibility to place on a young kid. Granted, there aren't other human choices, and even a child with no political skill would be a great symbol to bring humans and monsters together. And this child is the one who just saved everyone pretty much. Okay, I’ll grant him that.

Once defeated in a neutral run, he asks Frisk to take his soul and head to the surface. He would pass on the fate of monsters and humanity to someone he knows nothing about, not even their name, only that they came and defeated him in battle. But perhaps he just was...tiring of even trying anymore. Perhaps he was filled with guilt and grief and just...didn't want to live anymore. Okay. Spare him, and he entertains the thought of living a peaceful life together as a family, before Flowey kills him.

If you complete a neutral ending, then go back and defeat Asgore again on a neutral route, you get some special extra dialog. On choosing to spare him, Flowey doesn't come as quickly to kill him. He thinks again of life as a family, before dismissing it as fantasy. He identifies you with Chara (for having hope), with the prophecy of the angel, and then asks you to find a way to free monsters without really giving you a choice. ...again, he knows nothing about Frisk, their name, where they come from...only that they would give them mercy. And yet he is willing to make them in charge of the fate of all monsters. He kills himself, offering his soul up (before Flowey destroys this possibility).

(Side note...this or my analysis do not have the message that suicide is avoiding responsibility. I analyze his stated motives. It's quite possible that he had additional feelings of guilt and grief that led him to chose this. Even if not, it can't and shouldn't be generalized for other suicides)

Asgore is so reluctant to act...not even in genocide will he do anything special to save his people.

When you reach Asgore, clearly he has not heeded the warning and absorbed the human souls. I considered that perhaps Alphys did not call as she hates phone calls. But... there's a Queen Alphys ending, an aborted genocide ending. In it she pushes aside her fears and steps up, saving her people, implied that she hides them in the True Lab. I think this Alphys would have called.

He even gets a second warning here. But...he still tries to reason his way through, and speak with kindness. He is promptly killed.

In addition to his reluctance towards taking action, the other half of why Asgore wouldn't change...is that he was afraid that the people would lose hope.

...but I agree with Toriel. Through Asgore's lack of leadership, and continuation of the anti-human policies that came about when he was angry...the hope in the future that Asgore gave his people was dark.

In reality, though Asgore didn't want his people to lose hope...he himself had already lost hope. Perhaps that's why he couldn't bring true hope to his people.

In the Queen Toriel neutral ending, Asgore and the six human souls are gone. Toriel has instated a new policy to treat humans as friends. The people's hopes have taken a blow....but I don't think all is lost. It is possible to have a new vision and policy going forward, without Asgore or hoping for humanity's destruction.

In the King Papyrus ending, things are not quite as bright. There's a new policy to treat humans on a case by case basis. Papyrus tries to keep everyone working and fed. Sans does...a lot of paperwork. Productivity is up. But.....things are really hard. Papyrus is a great candidate to keep people's hopes up, kinda like Asgore (...Sans functions like Toriel too taking care of a lot of the details lol). But the Underground has lost many of their most beloved in this ending.

Yes.....I don't think Asgore, despite having lost hope, was only a detriment to monsterkind. His presence still brought some hope to the people, and his death was something to be mourned. But the loss of Asgore and his vision forward is just one factor in the outcome. Ultimately, I think Asgore's fears were not very true. If he changed course, away from his declaration of war...the people would adjust.

....Through all this.......

There was still one person still filled with Asgore's original hopes.

Chara never forgot Asgore's words as they lay dying. Even though they didn't heed these words....Asgore was an important figure to them in life.

Chara sticks by you the entire game, giving narration. In a few parts of the game, they share their memories with you, like when they fell into the Underground and were found by Asriel. And.....

When you die....they relay Asgore's own words to you. A message of hope to keep you going. A message that repeats to you the entire game, as many times as you need it upon death. Determination...the will to keep living...the resolve to change fate.

When you reach Asgore...he sees it. Maybe it doesn't mean anything special. A child may be full of hope for many reasons. I just kinda...want to believe that the same message of hope he gave to Chara...encouraged Frisk to make it this far, and it shines through on their face.

Through Frisk, Asgore's hopes come back to him. It's come full circle. He believes in a bright future again. A future with both humans and monsters.

You meet Asgore at the very end of the game. You've known him all of five minutes before Flowey shows up, and the final battle begins. Perhaps this is why he didn't have time to grow beyond this. Maybe, once on the surface, he'll work on himself further. Or not, I dunno, he stayed the same for a long time. We don't know.

Honestly....in the course of writing this my perspective on Asgore has changed. I expected to mostly write about his flaws, and why I thought of him poorly. But I didn't want to be unfair. And well...in Undertale.... When you dig a little deeper, you can find so much more about them than your assumptions and initial impressions. That the whole beauty of the game.

While I still think that Asgore is one of the most flawed people in the game...he has his good points too. And those actually turns out to be pretty important. Stay determined ❤

Screencaps from the Undertale Text Project (the work of squishing many textboxes in one image done by me)

P.S. One of the funnier lines in the game to me:

Thank you for reading!

#undertale #undertale theory #asgore #undertale analysis

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