#listen. i have never been invested in this group for a storyline. i'm here for the beautiful men who sing like angels | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

tuiyla · 2 years

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Do you have any idea why F/F ships are the only ones that appeal to you? I'm sapphic myself and in every fandom I've been in, it seems like all the sapphic fans only ship F/F ships, and that's always confused me so much because I've never felt the same way. I have het, M/M and F/F ships that I've loved, and though I do often seek out media with F/F ships, I don't always end up liking those ships and sometimes end up more invested in the het/mlm ships instead. I guess if I like a pairing, I don't really focus on the identities (race, gender, etc) of the characters, just who they are as people and how their personalities work together. So I really do wonder why there are so many sapphics that can only feel drawn to F/F dynamics.

No judgement here of course - this is just something I've been interested in for a really long time bc I can't relate - and I'd love to hear your take on this.

I've been telling myself that I'll answer when I have a spare half an hour at work but I never ended up getting that spare time oops so apologies that this is so late. I know the rep discussion was like two weeks ago but I hope you're reading this Anon and that you're well.

I did think about what I could say and listen, could I go on, yes, but at the core of it? I don't think I can provide a good explanation. And thinking about that did cause a small existential crisis haha because what you're asking is literally what I did my dissertation research on - specifically the Gay Migration, but you know that was essentially asking WLW fans the question why they gravitate so heavily towards WLW, alternatively F/F ships. And I guess a dissertation and 3 years later I'm still not sure?

Speaking in general terms, of course. Personally, I could and will answer in a moment, but even then I think it's just one of those preferences you can't really explain. I can liken it to certain colours appealing to certain people. There is an added layer of being able to relate and looking for rep in that sense for sure, but like your example shows, that's not an automatic thing. A WLW person won't inherently prefer and seek out WLW stories.

I'd also like to note that, speaking for myself and people I interviewed for my research, it's not that only F/F ships appeal to them or they can only feel drawn to them. It's just a preference, which doesn't necessarily mean all others are invalid and there's no connection. I have non-WLW ships; they just don't tend to be the ones I go all out for, but tbh I'm only really crazy about a select few ships anyway. I could list like maybe 5 I'd say I'm actively shipping at the moment, but it's more like 3. I like plenty more, and I don't focus as such on identities in those cases.

But I do think aspects of characters' identities, and honestly especially the intersections can enhance a story for a viewer from a marginalized group. And this really is just speaking for myself now, but I think even stories that are now considered to be tired and cliché can become interesting when we put different characters in those well-known situations. What I mean is... the damsel in distress trope but she's rescued by a lady knight. Putting the emphasis on a different, for a long time marginalized perspective, telling stories that couldn't be told in the past, I think there's an inherent catharsis in that. It's that narrative power being afforded to minorities. Because it’s inevitably, inherently different to het couples, even if the same story beats are present. So I might feel more drawn to a F/F couple with the exact storyline and tropes as a het couple, because I've seen straight people in that story a million times but now we're innovating it with something new.

Even beyond what my personal identity is and what I could relate to, representation isn't always about that. I love plenty of stories I can't personally relate to, but I enjoy viewing them and I enjoy dissecting them because they're fascinating stories. Sorry I can't link rn but I often talk about Brittana's transgression, for example, which in and of itself is something that elevates them in my eyes. That's not to say I don't value other stories, het or M/M or whatever, and of course M/M couples in particular or anything involving a less binary look at things can and does have that power too. It's just that my story-loving brain is usually drawn to the juiciness of subverting something by putting two women there, by defying the odds, overcoming trauma, all that. But hey maybe being able to relate does come in which is what tilts the scale in favour of WLW as opposed to MLM, for me personally. But also, just to say, I can relate to certain things about, for example Quick, just as much as I can to Brittana. I'd say what I'm thinking of in particular but this is getting long anyway and that's a different topic lol.

Anyway I'd love to hear a reflection if you're reading this and have any thoughts. Sorry this comes quite late and not at all as comprehensive as I wanted it to be. At the end of the day, people want different things in their media. Your perspective is perfectly valid, and to specifically look for stories one can relate to is also valid. I really think all this warrants further discussion and further academic research, too. I’d like to think I did my bit but if I was still in academia I’d love to do more and just, explore audience and fandom studies further.There’s lots of good stuff out there on fandom and representation but afaik WLW fandom has only been in the academic consciousness since The 100 and Lexa, basically, bar a few papers on Xena and Buffy. Wow I’m really trailing off can you tell why I wanted to do my diss on this lol.

#and that's why studying audiences is fun #though i'd do my diss very differently today #and with a different supervisor sorry pete #anon #fandom asks #queer rep

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greyias · 5 years

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This is not fair of me to ask, I'm sure you have plenty to do, but there is this post on reddit titled, "Is there an enjoyable way to read about SWTOR plot? I have fallen ill right after playing Umbara and I would very much like to know why certain someone did what he did, but I am unable to play and wookiepedia is quite a dry read. " He explains he has seizures from playing video games. I was wondering if you had something written that would help him out, or maybe you could write something?

Oh no, that poor guy! That really sucks to be invested in a story and then not be able to see how it turns out! I’m going to guess videos/playback of them have a similar issue 🙁

I totally will agree with him that Wookieepedia is definitely dry, but I’m going to boldly put this statement out here: it’s also incorrect.

At least the articles on Fractured Alliances were (and a few other TOR era articles I came across), to the point where I actually got really angry reading them because the assumptions were just so... blatantly wrong. And not well sourced. (This is a strange hill for me choose to die on, but I will go defend it nonetheless.) Granted I haven’t looked at them in several months, so it’s possible they’ve been updated since then? 🤷‍♀️

I haven’t written a full write-up on what happened in Fractured Alliances, but honestly I’ve been meaning to? Because the Wookiepedia articles irked me that much, I feel like someone needs to rant at length and correct them. I’ve just, erm, got a bit lazy and distracted and haven’t done so. Mostly because there’s actually a lot to cover, and a lot of misconceptions to correct, and sourcing is hard yo.

BUT! I can do a cliff’s notes version really quick to get him some answers. Although if it’s possible... maybe just link him this post in private if possible? Mostly because there’s some pretty big edgelords over on Reddit, and they make me tired (which is why I stopped even going over there to look at things).

Also I still haven’t quite lived down Gravedrog yet. I still can’t believe that blew up to the degree it did.

BUT! I can talk about Theron Shan, and his motivations all the live long day. Probably too long if we’re being honest. And I’ve definitely invested far more thought and energy into understanding what happened in this storyline (and why everyone did what they did) than is probably rational. But hey, we all have to have a hobby? And apparently mine is dissecting rushed/truncated video game storylines and their implications on characterization.

The TL;DR: Theron does what he does in Fractured Alliances to protect both the Outlander and the Alliance. And eventually by extension of the plot, everyone in the galaxy

(Whether or not a player or Outlander agrees with his methods for going about it is another debate entirely, but Theron definitely had his reasons, which were noble in intent, as all roads to hell are said to be paved with)

(Sorta) Cliff’s Notes Version of Fractured Alliances:

(okay this isn’t that short, but I promise it’s a lot shorter than it could be)

Once upon a time, we find a junky old spaceship in the swamp. We ignore it whispering creepily to us and a bunch of warning signs and decide to adopt it anyway

Sometime later, the entire cast of KOTET takes a reluctant field trip (see: KIDNAPPING) to Iokath.

While there, some stupid droid turns to Vaylin and says “Hey, you want to erase all of these Gemini droids free will?”

Because the entire expansion of KOTET got cut down by literally half, a lot of characterization shortcuts are taken and Vaylin’s like “HELL YEH”

All of the Gemini units are mindwiped save for one, a creepy little scarfed explorer who was off exploring Hoth or something. We get one e-mail from Hylo about this droid at the end of KotFE Chapter 16.

This lone Gemini unit, named Gemini 16, is traumatized by this and she’s like “Fuck having sisters! I want to be an only child!” and decides she wants to murder her entire droid family. Apparently it’s the only way to be sure this never happens again???

We defeat Vaylin, Valkorion, and take ownership of a shiny new fleet! Neat! Also, we install the Fleet’s control console with a known security flaw that we ourselves tried to exploit in KotFE (see: The Gemini Frequency) into the heart of our operations on Odessen. I’m sure no traumatized, misanthropic lone Gemini droids or crazy Zakuulans will use this to their advantage.

Oh wait.

Some guy we never met hates us because two kids were arguing over a piece of bread in the street.

This genius is named Vinn Atrius. He’s our villain.

He says “THANKS OUTLANDER-BAMA” and “We always had plenty of bread before YOU showed up!” and “Zakuul can’t just conquer and force everyone to bend to our will anymore :( :( :( :(” and “Won’t someone think of the children????” and decides he’s going to murderize him an Outlander. And the Alliance.

He decides to become a terrorist and frame us for his terrorist acts.

When he’s not starting whisper campaigns about how the Outlander is this horrible tyrant that must be stopped

Theron gets wind of Vinn’s plans, and decides to pretend he wants to be a cultist too! -- Vinn wisely slams the door in his face. This is the only wise thing Vinn ever does.

Vinn’s not a very good mastermind, so scary droid lady (GEMINI 16) says “Here honey, let me help you find a giant apocalypse machine”, although she doesn’t say honey because she hates everyone who’s not her

I actually skipped Iokath but I swear to god that’s an entire post unto itself, but someone tries to murderize the Outlander. Theron’s strangely calm about this. We’re supposed to think that’s because the TR8R WAS HIM ALL ALONG

This is stupid and goes against every characterization of Theron Shan up to this point in canon. I literally need an entire post to go into this, and am trying to keep things short.

TL;DR: This lady tried to murder the Outlander because ?????

I’m pretty sure the person behind the mask is the Scion, Oramis, and this part of the story/explanation got cut when they condensed everything.

Oramis and the Scions are also another post/explanation entirely

Gemini 16 lured everyone to Iokath

the full explanation is a post unto itself

but it’s the only thing that makes sense (with her motivation, Vinn’s motivation, their entire dialogue on their first meeting -- again, I’m trying to keep this “short”)

Sixteen literally has recordings of Team Outlander talking about who could have lured everyone there -- implying she was in the Iokath mainframe the entire time they were there on Iokath Fieldtrip #2

also, Vinn Atrius is as dumb as toast

🍞

Theron is actually pretty pissed about someone trying to murder his boss/best friend/girlfriend/boyfriend. And he’s pretty sure he knows who it is. So he goes into ultra THERON LOGIC mode -- which is to say, he becomes an overly paranoid loner -- and decides to infiltrate a death cult. (again). As you do.

Because via intelligence reports that are for some stupid reason hidden behind group content, he already knows that some conspiracy against the Alliance is afoot. And that they’re being watched. Apparently Lana forgot to read all of her Intelligence dossiers????

Since he knows we’re being watched, but can’t figure out how, logically the only thing to do is without any backup whatsoever, try and infiltrate the Death Cult that slammed the door in his face once already.

Luckily for Theron, Vinn Atrius is a dumbass and says “IDK... you’re pretty close to the Commander”

Theron says “Would a face like this lie to you?” while making this face in the cutscene: 😡

Vinn’s like “When you’re right, you’re right! Blow up a train for me?”

Theron: AHAHAHA SURE. I LOVE BLOWING UP TRAINS

Theron, Mentally: ...well, crap. I guess I could tell the Commander about this. BUT THE WALLS HAVE EARS--WAIT I HAVE A BRILLIANT PLAN

Theron proceeds to concoct the most elaborate stage play known to man, which includes:

Leading everyone to the front of the train

Where he can lure both the Outlander and Lana into the front compartment

And shoots Lana with a stun blast, something he has never done before to someone he’s trying to supposedly kill

Then he shoots at the Commander--but not really, because he was shooting out the window on the front of the train

Then he shoots again at the Commander--but not really, because he was shooting at the controls to bring up a shield that prevents the Outlander from following him

And oh no! Now there’s a shield between them, what a tragedy, I guess he can’t pretend to shoot at the Commander and miss for a third time. Guess it’s time to monologue like a Bond villain. What can ya do? It’s not like he has cybernetic implants that help him be an expert marksman. God, that’d be embarrassing.

Since he knows that he’s being recorded by some unseen person, he really hams it up for the camera. He makes this face again, because he’s decided it’s part of his tr8rsona: 😡

The Outlander can react in a variety of ways, but if one of those ways is “UM WTF???? WHY DIDN’T YOU TALK TO ME???” he suddenly breaks tr8r character and goes “I thought about it... but then you might have talked me out of it--AND WE CAN’T HAVE THAT!”

if you romanced him and say you still love him he makes this face: 😭

And then literally tells the Outlander how to escape from the train before like going “I’m really gonna blow up this train -- in thirty seconds -- gosh it would be a shame if you were still on this train in thirty seconds. When it blows up. When I pull the trigger. That I’m about to do.”

The Outlander leaps off the train, out of the convenient exit point Theron made, with Lana. They’re respectively like “?????” and “🤬🤬🤬🤬”

Vinn thinks this all very convincing. Sixteen is facepalming in the background. Vinn doesn’t listen to her. We don’t see any of this, but it’s kind of implied in future dialogue.

If you’re dating Theron and didn’t try to Force choke him, he sends you a letter going “I STILL LOVE YOU -- CAN’T EXPLAIN WHY I DID THIS BUT ILU PLZ DON’T FORGET ILU oh yeah and the alliance sucks and stuff i guess -- ps. ♥︎♥︎♥︎”

This is apparently something a tr8r would do, because Theron is Vinn’s go-to guy now. And decides to give Theron the task of retrieving a map to this place called Nathema so they can find a giant death machine to kill the Alliance.

Oh wait. That place called Nathema. That Theron has been to before. And knows the exact coordinates too because he was the pilot that flew them there. The place that Valkorion sucked the entire life out of and made a giant wound in the Force. THAT NATHEMA.

This is the part where normal people might think “Maybe I should reconsider my plans”, but they are not Theron Shan. Who shaves his head, throws away a jacket he’s been wearing since he was like fifteen, and heads over to Chiss space, to steal/blow up a map to the Ancient Death Machine.

Actually it’s revealed/hinted at on Iokath, on Copero, and then clarified once again in Nathema Conspiracy, that this machine is literally the Apocalypse

It wipes out entire worlds’ populations in an instant

Background lore indicates that its hunger is endless and has been waiting to rise again and there’s like prophecies about this

If activated and not stopped, this machine will literally annihilate all life in the galaxy

Theron blows up some more things at a resort, runs bravely away away, and then OOPS OH SO ACCIDENTALLY broadcasts his call with the Death Cult, who say their name on camera.

Shockingly, the Alliance intercepts the accidental-on-purpose broadcast and now know the name of Theron’s new cult: The Order of Zildrog

Then like forever and a day passes in real life, but who knows how long in game time, but I guess it’s like, six months or less according to a line of dialogue -- and finally Lana and the Outlander mysteriously get coordinates to a myyyyysterious abandoned outpost.

And by mysterious, I mean that Lana is the only one who can decode said coordinates because she and Theron came up with the encryption together on Rishi

It’s almost like he’s working from the inside or something

But if you tell Lana that she’s like “NO HE’S A TR8R GRRR THIS A TRAP”

It is not a trap

Lana and the Outlander wander around, and find a bunch of recordings someone conveniently forgot to erase detailing a bunch of infodumps that’s way too long for the Cliff’s Notes version, but boil down to showing and implying an entire novel’s worth of backstory:

Vinn’s manifesto

Theron unconvincingly pretending he really likes death cults

Vinn staring at numbers from data he got from Iokath and zomg Zildrog is reallllll -- the legends of his mighty hunger and DEATH DEALING are true! Squee! Just what he needs to get rid of that pesky Outlander!

Vinn recruiting people who really don’t like you into his death cult

Gemini telling Vinn he really sucks at this masterminding thing, but she needs someone who’s good with people so hey let’s team up!

Oh and she knows where Zildrog is

The Outlander and Lana escape before the space station blows up

Over on the Shuttle of Zildrog, Theron’s like “It’s all up to you now, Commander” and apparently Vinn hears that and is like “Hey Theron, did you remember to erase all of our super sekrit recordings and blow up the space station?"

Theron: 👌

Vinn: 👍

Sixteen: 😒

Back on Odessen Lana’s like “I KILL DA TR8R” regardless of your feelings on the matter as an Outlander. If Arcann’s still alive he’s like “Hey Commander, maybe go easy on Theron? I know the value of forgiveness. Maybe he had his reasons?”

You get corroborating information of literally everything we just learned on the Space Station OF DOOM and Lana’s still like “Nope, still gonna shank me a tr8r! No one tazes Lana Beniko and lives!”

I assume it’s a fun ride to Nathema

Okay I joke. She’s just being protective and "logical”, but honestly if you select literally every single dialogue option supporting Theron throughout this story, illogically Angry Lana can really start to grate after a while

On Nathema, we follow a myyyysterious signal -- to Theron. To the surprise of no one except Lana who’s like “JERKFACE STAY AWAY FROM THE COMMANDER”

Theron proceeds to tell an extremely abbreviated, and slightly more straightforward version of everything above.

If you’ve romanced him, he reminds you that he promised to do anything to protect you.

This includes shaving his head, updating his wardrobe, blowing up a train, and putting up with Vinn Atrius’s shit for months on end

The things he does for love

Lana still doesn’t believe him. At this point if you want to, you can be like “Lana plz” and she’s like “OKAY FINE--BUT I’M WATCHING YOU TR8R”

Gemini 16 was watching the entire exchange. Looks like SOMEONE’S cover is blown. Oh well, Theron was done with it anyway.

Vinn is SHOCKED. SHOCKED I TELL YOU.

HOW DARE

THERON????

HOW COULD YOU?????

YOU FRIENDED ME ON SPACEBOOK

WAS IT ALL A LIE

I KEEL HIM

Sixteen is just like “whatever let’s go activate Zildrog”

Vinn: Is this why he kept insulting our Lord and Savior Valkorion?????

Team Outlander fights their way to the site of the Ancient Apocalypse Machine. They meet Shroedinger’s Cultist along the way via holo.

He/she/they says “hi/plz die”.

There’s sixteen candidates for this spot (two for each class) -- but all sixteen are not death cultists at the same time

This is another thing that requires an entire post to delve into, so another time on that

Team Outlander arrives at the site where Zildrog was installed on Nathema -- coincidentally right at the same spot Tenebrae/Vitiate/Valkorion initiated his first death ritual to grant him semi-immortality. Fancy that.

Vinn has convinced everyone he’s recruited into his death cult to climb into these really dangerous looking pods; not surprising but they’re all basically dead -- because Zildrog required a human sacrifice to be reactivated

A human sacrifice???

In my ancient death machine?

It’s more likely than you think!

Theron shoots Vinn because he’s tired of his shit

Gemini 16 reveals that the Zildrog machine is one half of a larger death device built on Iokath. Where’s the other half?

OH BACK ON ODESSEN. Because it’s the Gravestone. Yes, I know everyone forgot about it at this point, which is kind of easy since we haven’t seen it since KOTET.

The Gravestone blows up the Eternal Fleet. Like, all of it. At once. Also the control console for the Fleet blows up too. This kind of detonates several things on base.

For some reason edgelords on Reddit think this is all Theron’s fault

As if the writers were really going to let us keep that Deus Ex Machina that would literally prevent them from going back to these same whiner’s precious Pub vs Imp conflict

And ignoring the fact that this would have been the end result even if Theron hadn’t gone undercover

I digress

Team Outlander fights Sixteen and defeats her.

Theron goes to try and finish shutting Zildrog down and Vinn Atrius is like

And stabs Theron in the back with a lightsaber pike

The Outlander can be like

“FUCK YOU ASSHOLE THAT’S MY BEST FRIEND/BOYFRIEND”

or “OH NOES”

or “ASSMUNCH I WAS GONNA DO THAT”

Vinn’s like “DRAGGONNNNNNNNN” as if he was recreating a scene from Dragonball Z, and the holo-Zildrog is like “Here, let me make you go Super Saiyan!” -- and gives Vinn a boss buff

Outlander and Lana fight Vinn and kick his ass. Then kick Zildrog’s ass. Yes, Zildrog is literally just a computer console in the center of the room, and if the Outlander more or less pulls a Kylo Ren on it

The Gravestone blows up -- everyone on Odessen is really confused

Lana tells the Outlander that “WAIT! Theron’s still alive!” -- she’s backed off her murderous rampage at this point and says we have to bring him back to Odessen to save his life

The Outlander can act like any sane person to their boyfriend/best friend/person-who-risked-their-entire-life/reputation-to-save-us/etc and go “Let’s take him home and save his life”

Or can be a dick and literally make Theron live out his worst fear of being abandoned by the people he cares about -- because despite the mountain of evidence that illustrates he literally did all of this to save your life, you can just walk away going “tr8rs never prosper”

This option shows what looks like him dying offscreen

I’m pretty sure he actually survives

Satele sends you a nastygram if you do this, where she directly contradicts a previous letter she sent (to Theron) if you tried to kill her in KotFE Chapter 12

Lana also is not happy with you if you do this, but not like, enough to actually leave or anything

Back on Odessen it’s revealed half of the members of the Alliance are fair weather friends and have abandoned you since you don’t own any super cool space ships anymore

If you brought Theron back with you, he limps up while you and Lana are shooting the breeze and asks if he can stay

You can say yes or no

If you’re romancing Lana you can propose to her around this point

If you’ve romanced Theron (and didn’t tell him to hit the road), you take an ill-advised walk as he’s still limping like crazy, where he reveals that he’s been having nightmares ever since Umbara about you walking away from him and he can never catch up

GEE WHAT DOES THAT SOUND LIKE

He says he knows he doesn’t deserve your trust or forgiveness, but still asks if you can give “your idiot spy boyfriend” a second chance

You can say no, of course, but if you say yes, there’s a dialogue path that leads to an adorably awkward proposal

And he promises that he and Lana will stay by your side no matter what

THE END

(of that story arc)

Sorry, I know that’s rather disjointed and rushed (despite being as long as it was)! But for such a rushed ending/conclusion, there’s actually a lot of moving parts to the storyline as whole.

At some point in the future I’ll try to actually expand upon some of those tangent points of “I need more time to explain this properly” -- because there’s a lot of them, and a lot to them. Also cross-referencing the pieces of canon takes time -- but I promise there’s actual canonical evidence and logic trains that make sense for all of that.

#tadibe #thank you for the ask!#fractured alliances #i honestly can talk everyone's ear off about this storyline #i went down way too many rabbit holes and research cul-de-sacs while waiting for story installments #(and despite this being the short version)#(i know it's still long)#(sorry!)#grey's silly swtor tag

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