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thegeminisage · 3 years

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hi, sorry for answering you both so late, i am putting your answers together since they are sort of related!

the short answer is, i can’t write a “real” sequel to broken road but the third part of the triptych would be the indirect dean/cas spiritual sequel, except with way more porn. the long answer is:

i just don't think i could write a true direct sequel to broken road set in that same continuity because i don't have anything left to say about john and how he gets along in the real with his family world now that he’s stuck there and they’re all stuck with each other. my main three points of interest that i felt were left unresolved would be the continuation of dean and cas's relationship (more on this in a sec), sam and eileen (ditto), and figuring out if john and mary ever made it work or called it quits for good. so if i wrote a sequel to broken road it would just be a bunch of john/mary stuff that i feel underqualified for because it WOULD involve their sex life and i DO NOT want to write john having sex. them fucking offscreen in broken road was as close as i'm ever getting and even that was weird. and then somehow i’d also have to work sam and eileen into that and it’s not at all related. it would take two fics and i don’t even want to write one. also, i really kind of want to leave the question of john and mary open anyway - i have my own thoughts about how things ultimately end up but i prefer to let the reader imagine what ending they like best, since people have such strong feelings about it. i know that's a little bit of a cop-out and i'm sorry! but it feels beyond the scope of that fic and also a little beyond my scope and area of interest as a writer.

if it helps you any, i imagine going forward their dynamic is a lot like it is in the epilogue, which is part of why i made the epilogue so long, was to give you a good idea of what life is like for them now. but here’s what i imagine might go down after the final curtain call (this is LONG, skip to the section labeled “dean” for the triptych answer):

john & mary:

john continues to suffer and bite his tongue and probably do a lot of complaining and DEFINITELY do a lot of avoiding being alone with dean or cas or dean-and-cas. john was expecting to retire after yellow eyes died so he really wouldn't know what to do with a family that still hunts for "no reason" and i imagine he'd be pretty pissed that they still hunt at all. i expect he and sam would butt heads over that

mary would probably keep attempting to be supportive and keep being bad at it, and spend a lot of time trying to put a brave face on it while secretly dying inside, because she's constantly at war with herself. here she has john back, but not the john she remembers, and spending time with him is difficult because she wants to let herself have him and take comfort in him and also she doesn't want to be anywhere near him because he abused their kids

eventually mary or john or both would have to leave, though mary would come back - in canon she's in and out a lot anyway, she stays for awhile and visits regularly for game nights. i think john would miss the first game night, get one "seriously?" text from mary, and then show back up every week that he possibly could but also not visit unless it would make things worse if he didn't. i don't think he particularly enjoys spending time with his family for a long time, if ever, because much like season 12 mary he came back to a family he barely knew or recognized (and because of what he knows now spending time with dean would be particularly awkward). HIS sons would be getting married to women and retiring and having biological children. this gay adoptive whatever the fuck makes them feel like they are not his sons.

anyway, i imagine john and mary would do much better when running into one another outside of the bunker, on their own separate hunts. they might even take one or two together. there’s probably some very guilty sex in their future at some point because mary is real fucked up. john post broken road does a lot of shutting up but i think around mary he would be the most like his old self. they do this will they/won't they dance for the next decade at least before finally making up their minds one way or the other. i do think they all still go on hunts together sometimes, maybe even with the apocalypse world hunters, and since that's sam's deal john is probably kind of quiet and falls in line and does what's needed without chatting much to anyone. i bet the first few times people don't even realize he's sam's father because he's so quiet. it's his way of trying to apologize to sam and also if he steps out of line when sam is in charge sam would <3 deck him. yes. but yeah i see it being very brisk and professional and awkward, until they all get used to each other again

sam:

as i said earlier the only thing i didn't fix in broken road was eileen, so at some point sam would figure out a way to get her back - since in this verse jack never becomes soulless and chuck never returns and we never get season 15 it's possible she shows back up because she didn't go with her reaper, or because someone fucked up a summoning spell, or sam realized she was in hell and decided to spring her, or she just crawled out on her own like a badass. i think it would be kind of funny if john was involved with her resurrection but maybe accidentally somehow, so it's not like oh sam learns to forgive his dad because john did this really nice thing for him it's more like UGH why did it have to be YOU why are YOU involved in this important thing that has nothing to do with you slkdjfghl but also if you hadn't done it she'd still be down there or something, so, it cancels out. or idk maybe john had to work hard at it or give something up to make it happen. he has to genuinely shut up and be selfless and not fucking complain and feel sorry for himself the entire time, that might be fun too. either way sam would not thank him

(though i do think sam deserves space to explore the fact that he loves john even still, even despite the fact that he also hates him/is very angry with him and always will be. i don’t imagine sam and john ever fully reconcile but i imagine john behaving BECAUSE OF SAM SPECIFICALLY offers sam more catharsis than he thought possible.)

anyway, john would be so relieved to see sam with a woman even if she is a deaf hunter but then it turns out she hates him like sam does so like. sucks to be him! meanwhile sam and eileen get to catch up and he finally has a willing ear (so to speak) that isn’t cas or mary to talk to about this stuff and of course SHE has someone who very much understands what it’s like to come back from hell. part of what i really love about sam and eileen is the way they sort of instantly and intrinsically recognized and understood one another, even across something that resembles a language barrier, and this hypothetical future would be no exception. there’s no way they don’t get engaged inside a year, and much like in the 15.18 fixit they’d sometimes hang at the bunker and sometimes not. i imagine with the apocalypse world hunters going in and out though it’s never exactly empty or lonely there.

whether or not their family unit ever retires and/or moves out of the bunker in this verse is sort of beyond me because my feelings on it change daily but you can imagine whatever you like! however i am adamant that the furthest away from each other sam and dean will ever get permanent-living-situation-wise is next door/across-the-street neighbors. their weird little codependency is part of what i like about them and i have a Whole Thing about not “gentrifying” dean. but for the most part sam would be very much doing his own thing which involves john very little, and healing from his own damage with people OUTSIDE of his blood relatives which he very much deserves. and he has moved so completely past the need to care about john that like john is a backdrop in his life, albeit one with baggage. but mostly he becomes someone to keep an eye on in case he makes trouble, no different than a hundred other surly hunters sam’s known. and he can still be there for dean without his life revolving around dean because now dean has other people there for him too. (i ALSO have a whole thing about sam being in the life for dean specifically, that he’s giving up some or all of adulthood for dean because dean gave up childhood for him - kind of the way someone takes care of their kickass single mom in old age. it’s a guilt/love/debt/devotion sort of thing.)

and speaking of the Eventual future, if babies ever come into this picture (sam and eileen’s, to be clear, dean and cas are probably satisfied with jack, NOT THAT JACK ISN’T ALSO SAM’S CHILD) john is allowed to see them but never unsupervised. i’m picturing like sam and eileen both on their third day of no sleep and sam lets john change a diaper because he’s exhausted and john considers that the best their relationship has been since sam was 6. mary always wanted to raise babies and sam likes her better so she’d get to pitch in with much more enthusiasm (and aw they’d finally get to bond a little more), and dean has raised a baby already so he’d probably try to like help and get waved away a lot like no no raising other peoples babies is no longer your job it’s ok. there is eventually a fight about this

cas & jack:

castiel lives a great life caring for his newly re-graced son and staring at john when he enters or leaves rooms, and i imagine eventually jack gives him his wings back, since he can do whatever the fuck he wants (i'm not giving jack his own section but he also probably keeps acknowledging dean and cas are a couple like out loud which would be fine except for dean is still half in the closet like a skittish traumatized cat so eventually cas would have to explain very gently that nobody was supposed to know that yet and jack should cool it to give dean time to adjust)

anyway i DON’T believe in human cas, i believe he likes being an angel, so he just gets to stay an angel forever and now he has wings too <3 and he can teleport which spooks john in the exact same manner it used to spook dean in s4 <3 except this time cas is being <3 malicious on purpose <3

cas fully won here because like john does NOT want to speak to or acknowledge him much less be in the same room as him so they tend to have a dynamic where like all 6 of them are in the room and cas dean sam mary and jack all talk to each other and john dean sam mary and jack all talk to each other but cas and john do not talk to each other. cas doesn’t have to threaten him or glare at him constantly anymore like all he has to do is look at him. and john is like. man what’s he gonna do. that guy is having sex with your son and there’s nothing you can do about it! so dean doesnt have to be like ok cool it cas anymore because cas has literally won in every possible way. i think at most it’s very much cas being like “if i were trying to kill you, you’d know it <3″ and john can’t return those vibes to sender because then dean would be like ok cool it at his DAD instead. it used to be cas don’t piss off dad and now it’s dad don’t piss off cas. anyway i think that since cas has let dean lean on him so much it would be nice if he could lean on dean a little. again more on that in a minute

dean:

and finally, as for dean...i think he needs a year minimum to dean with people acknowledging he and cas are a couple and another 3 for it not to be weird to say cas’s name in front of his dad. absolutely zero pda in front of john ever but he might like eventually get to the place where he and cas can lounge around together on the couch while they watch movies with the rest of fam and it’s not a big deal. sneak an arm around him at a movie theater. kind of the same vibes as the 15.18 fixit but with less anxiety. because like the worst possible thing (getting outed to everyone) has already happened and aside from the outing itself being completely horrible nothing that terrible even came to pass as a result, so he’s just Adjusting. i think he sort of has to unlearn and relearn his habits - his mediator thing, his defending dad thing. i think there’s a lot of times where he just walks out of a room when shit is too much for him to deal with because he has let go of some of the need to constantly micromanage his family’s interactions to make sure they don’t boil over. michael already took that scenario to the max and mary already dumped john so there’s really not much left to be afraid of. i think he gets told “that’s not your job” a lot and maybe listens more than he used to. and to bring us around to the second question...

i also think dean would get weirdly hung up on the fact that he and cas’s sex life is Not Normal - as in, they fooled around a little and that was it. i think dean would have a huge problem with that. like, obviously he has A Few Hangups About Gay Sex given his history but if you’re a couple you’re supposed to bang on the regular and it’s totally homophobic if he doesn’t bang cas as much as he’d bang a lady he was committed to, right? he’s not gonna give cas less than he gave cassie or lisa, that’s not fair to his best buddy and number one pal!

meanwhile castiel, known asexual, is utterly and wildly neutral to the whole idea except that it’s a way to be close to dean. cas would be just as happy fucking like champions for a six-hour marathon or spending that same six hours curled up in bed together while he plays with dean’s hair. like, same diff. you know that thing about like “cas thinks everything is important he gives the same gravitas to the apocalypse and a nine year old’s birthday party”? like it’s exactly like that with sex and cuddling and sharing a meal together and driving together and watching dumb movies like it’s all time spent With Dean so it all matters just as much.

so we have this conflict where dean is tearing himself apart over the fact that he’s taking a normal human amount of time to “work up” to the whole thing and cas is like. but it’s fine. it’s literally fine. and dean’s reaction to this would be something very offended like hello excuse me i am super hot and fuckable and you don’t WANT me?

if this all sounds familiar that’s because i’ve written similar stuff to it before! if you go to the fic page for broken road, you'll see it's part of a series now (the "triptych"), with my dumb little 15.18 fixit as the prequel. even though continuity-wise these are two totally separate fics i feel very strongly that that fic is the spiritual prequel to broken road, and eventually, a long time from now, after the next @cambionverse fic is done or at the very least well underway, i'd like to write a spiritual sequel. a triptych is three works that stand on their own but also make a more complete whole, so even though these three stories would not be related at all in continuity of where they take place in canon, they each set the stage at a different part of the dean/cas relationship. so fic #1, the get-together, had no sex at all, and it was very short. fic #2, pre-established but just barely, had a little sex in it and it was very long. fic #3 then would be pre-established but like VERY pre-established and have a fuckton of sex in it, and be medium length. i’m ha ha basically writing my own nc-17 porn coda since SOMEBODY won’t do it for me (if you got that joke you’re entitled to financial compensation).

except i actually really do want to tackle this subject myself, it’s stuff i only got to touch on in the other fics because it felt off topic, so in this fic it WOULD be the topic! i really found a groove i like with cas who has almost no trauma around sex but doesn’t care whether or not he has it vs dean who really really wants to have sex but has a minefield of past bad experiences he has to watch out for. and i like writing porn anyway and i didn’t get to write very much these past two fics. i’ve always said that i think dean would snowball (not like that, gross) - it’d take him FOREVER (literally a decade plus) to work up to kissing cas but a fraction of that time to start fooling around with him and a fraction of THAT time to blow him etc etc. the more he does the easier it gets. i feel like it’d be a lot of fun to write.

so, this third fic would not be an official broken road sequel, because there’s almost no plot outside of the porn to speak of anyway, but if what you wanted was to see how the dean/cas went from where it left off, hopefully that will be satisfying in that regard.

i should say, while the third fic would be almost exclusively porn there is one plot element involving ********** that i am not going to talk about on tumblr because it would ruin the surprise. i have told a few people privately and i will tell you if we know each other pretty well but if you know (or guess) don’t tell anyone!

see, the other thing i would want to tackle in that fic is how cas has his own traumas and baggage, even if they’re a little different from dean’s, and i think dean sometimes gets so deep in his own stuff he kind of...not forgets that exactly but forgets how profoundly it still affects cas, because by and large cas deals with that sort of thing a lot more quietly and in much healthier ways than dean does. not that his self-sacrificing ass is the poster child for mental health, but for example cas recognized suicidal ideation in himself and actively worked to keep himself away from situations that would make it worse. he translates his bad feelings into meaningful action (well, he attempts to, even if it usually goes wrong). so he hurts kind of quietly and in late season especially most of the worst moments of his life are behind him (barring jack’s death, which doesn’t happen in this verse). so he’s also further along in his healing process which mean dean kind of forgets how fucked in the head he can be. and in the uh...unusual situation...they find themselves in because of this minor plot, it becomes something that he can’t not notice, that they can’t just not talk about, and cas gets to lean on dean a little, they sort of get to know each other better. so that’s part of the point of that one little plot element. but the rest of it really is porn.

i haven’t started work on the third fic yet - i don’t have a title and my outline is just a bunch of choppy ideas and i have about 2000 words of the middle of the fic jotted down out of context. (it was originally going to be a shorter unrelated thing before i realized how well it tied to what i already had.) i have another obligation to see to before i can get started on it (again, @cambionverse, you should read it if you havent, the concept might sound unappealing but almost everyone who tries it likes it and it’s way better than broken road). so it’ll probably happen a very VERY long time from now! but it IS happening. >:) i just hope after the first two fics in the triptych were so well received that it doesn’t disappoint 🥺

#liz answers asks #anonymous #broken road #liz watches spn #liz loves writing #sorry this is such a long post i got carried away #i'm really excited about that third fic but i am more excited about other things first #but i don't want to get anyone else too excited until i have more concrete stuff bc rn i don't have much confidence in it #when i first conceptualized it i was like 'this is so weird and bad i will have to publish anonymously'#i've moved past that particular bit of self-doubt but only a very small inch lol #12:46pm

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nellie-elizabeth · 4 years

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Supernatural: Our Father, Who Aren't in Heaven (15x08)

I'm screaming.

Cons:

Buckleming episodes usually piss me off, but this one was actually really great. It was still plagued with the same pacing problems I always see in their episodes, though. A lot of great stuff happened here, but it didn't necessarily have a ton of room to breathe. Some of it did - the Cas and Dean stuff, the Michael and Adam stuff. And maybe that's the most important. But it might have been nice to have a longer beat with Rowena, or a bit more buildup with Eileen and the case. For an episode written by these two chuckle-fucks, though, I'm honestly really, really impressed.

Donatello is an okay-ish character, but his presence here felt mostly unnecessary. Didn't we have enough to juggle, without introducing him into the mix? Eileen, Cas, Rowena, Chuck, Michael, Adam... there's a lot going on here. It probably could have been done without him.

Pros:

I really don't know where to start, so let's start with Eileen. Just the fact that she's in this episode warms me from head to toe. She's... actually in the show. She's here, in the mid-season finale, where important Plot Stuff is happening. She's a real player in events, and after she came back from the dead, she stuck around in the bunker. Like she's... really in the show, you guys. Three episodes in a row!

On a more specific note, I love that Sam followed her and Eileen called him out on it... this could have been really creepy but I think they played it right. Eileen died and came back to life, and Sam is just starting to develop this relationship with her. It makes sense that he might be a little overbearing. And Eileen's reaction was pitch-perfect. She's a little annoyed, a little amused, but also maybe a little touched? And Sam takes the criticism to heart, realizing that he's probably overstepped. Later, when Eileen has a case that she needs to go on, to help an old friend, she goes to Sam and tells him, and he tags along. This seems like a good arrangement - Eileen isn't being stupid and running off by herself for no reason, but Sam is also respecting her boundaries and letting her approach him if and when she wants help with something.

We've also got Dean giving his seal of approval to the relationship, telling Sam that if he wants to do the family and relationship thing, Eileen is probably a good way of going about that. She's a hunter, she gets the life. And, as Dean says... Sam could do a lot worse. And Eileen could do so, so much better. I honestly think this little conversation was important to include. It's not like Sam needs Dean's blessing to start a relationship with Eileen, but... let's be honest, guys. Yes he does. Not literally, but can you really imagine either of the Winchester brothers being able to foster a healthy and lasting relationship with someone who didn't meet the other brother's approval? The codependency issues here are clear, and not to be discounted.

So then let's move on to Rowena. I loved her return here. It was totally unexpected, and totally brilliant. As I mentioned above, I really could have used more of her. The brief moment where Sam wants to hash out their last moments, and Rowena brushes him off, could have felt weightier. But the fact that we even got to see her again was such a gift. And what a natural end for her character! Queen of Hell. It fits, especially since I think we've pretty much confirmed that we won't be seeing Crowley again before the end. She got to show up looking like a boss-ass bitch, save Sam, Dean, and Castiel from getting their asses handed to them, shout orders, try to help them find Michael, assert her dominance and her happiness in her new role, and even try to kick Dean and Cas into gear, as she notices that they're clearly in some sort of "tiff." As brief as her return was, it certainly packed a punch, and I loved it so very much.

Cas and Dean's strained relationship right now is giving me life. This is the most Destiel-adjacent content we've gotten since Season Eight, and with the two of them returning to Purgatory, we're bound to get a lot of material in the new year, as well. The thing that I like so much about their story arc this season is that... there is a story arc. Dean has been cruel and dismissive of Cas in the past, and Cas has made mistakes, and circumstances have conspired to keep Castiel out of episodes as he goes off on his own quests... none of this is strictly new. But what is new is the narrative weight being placed on it. This is a slow-burn conflict that's going to have to have meaty screen-time to resolve. They had a serious fight, and it's actually affecting both of them in their actions.

Both Jensen and Misha are pulling out all the stops in giving this conflict the weight it deserves. There are so many delicious moments. They make their plans and discuss their options, but they can't even meet each other's eyes. There's the moment after Cas forces Michael to confront the truth, and Dean comes in and says "maybe you went too far." It's a gentle remonstrance, and he's clearly trying not to ruffle Cas' feathers. I loved the way Jensen played that, like he needed to talk to Cas about what went down, but he wanted to be careful not to antagonize him. When Rowena confronts them, they both do the typical thing of pretending everything's fine, still refusing to look at each other.

But the moment where my heart just squeezed in my chest was obviously when Dean cut his hand in order to do the spell to get to Hell, and Cas healed him, his hand hovering over Dean's fist without touching. Dean's hand unfurls and for a moment their fingers are centimeters apart, but they never touch. Many a meta has been written about the intimate way that Cas has always healed Dean, and how that juxtaposes to the way he heals other people. And in this moment, they don't touch, and it speaks volumes. I seriously have to ask the question - why was this moment in the episode? Sam could have been the one to cut his hand, or Dean could have, but then could have wrapped it up and moved on. It's not like we haven't seen Sam and Dean brush off wounds like this and ignore them before. This was a weighty, intentional moment. We lingered on it. I am alive, y'all.

Now let's turn to Adam/Michael. This is so amazing, and not at all what I think anyone was expecting when we found out Jake Abel was returning. Sure, Adam is a little pissed off at his brothers for leaving him in the cage, and sure Michael is still going on and on about being God's favorite, but even as so much has stagnated for these two characters, we've also learned what they've been up to in the cage for the past decade. They've made an arrangement. Only one body, but two brains... so they agree to share, more or less peacefully. Sam and Dean were shocked when Michael let Adam come to the forefront to say hi to his brothers. But the two of them seem to be... buddies. Adam is able to speak freely to Michael, to express his opinion that the Winchesters might have a point. Even though Michael can't quite listen to him in this instance, it's clear that he gives real consideration to Adam's opinions.

Adam was introduced on this show such a long time ago, and it would have felt disingenuous and annoying if we'd spent too long on the whole "you let me rot in hell" business. Of course that's something Adam would be thinking about, but it's not like Sam and Dean really knew him all that well. He doesn't seem to place much weight on his status as their brother, and I can't really blame him for that. He's had to forge his own path, and he's done so by becoming friends with the angel who is possessing him. I love that glow-up for Adam.

And Michael... he has to have his heart broken the same way Sam did when he found out that Chuck has been playing them all along. I loved the moment when Cas forcefully made him confront the truth, because of course it was too much, of course it was overwhelming, but ultimately it pushed him to understand that his loyalty to God is not worth the pain and suffering he's been through. And so, in much the way that Chuck knew how to cage Amara, Michael knows how to cage Chuck. He's willing to help by passing that information along. It's a spell, of course. And the most vital ingredient is something that can only be found in Purgatory. What with Sam and Eileen dealing with Chuck elsewhere, it's going to be up to Cas and Dean. They must return to the place where their epic romance really took off and began to slowly murder us all!

Chuck has Eileen and Sam right where he wants them, and even worse, Dean and Cas don't know. This is going to create great drama, as well as opportunities for our two couples (shut up and let me have this) to spend time together as we go in to the back half of the season. My heart is really starting to break, thinking about how little time we have left with this show!

I feel like this review could get out of hand very quickly. In many ways, this felt understated for a mid-season finale. Nobody died, the status quo didn't really shift all that much. But I actually liked it better for all that. Things are in motion. Character dynamics are being explored. This is a good season of Supernatural, y'all. Fingers crossed they can stick the landing!

9/10

#review #supernatural #supernatural review #spn #spn 15x08

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muertaheux · 4 years

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Post J call (19/05) [diary sub.]

4 days of no sleep has meant unblocking+subsequently spending a lot of time thinking about or talking to J the past couple days. but damage done & now that I know that this man has stopped doing all the things he was supposed to do continue doing once we were completely over; ensuring that he does those things again feels like my responsibility!!

-SO! An attempt at digesting some of the most jarring things he said since instantaneous reflection/clarity was impossible !! -

“when you first wanted to end things there was no doubt that you’d be coming back out here”

like there’s a pandemic and i have no reason i need to go back to the bay as it’s alll online now ??

“see I’m not even in LA!! I chose not to be for you!!”

We’ve had no contact for months and I had no idea he still mainly lived in Oakland?? So that cannot be put on me?? ALSO literally one of the last things I had said to him was about how at least now he can live in LA & something to the effect of how he should try + actually enjoy the lifestyle now?? LA bitches always made me feel a way & a lot of the LA guys he worked with or just at different events were just a lot???

“How can you act like this is the way its supposed to be with us?? If you just decided that there’s not even a chance anymore than that’s fucked up that you gave me false hope”

WHAT THE FUCK. It’s certainly not healthy to entertain possibility of reconciliation, for plenty of reasons but especially as he’s not risen to the occasion of doing what he needs to do! I didnt leave him high and dry as he has the blueprints, tools, and resources now. Literally last night he was texting acknowledging how we’re both not “whole” and it seemed he got that we must be separate but I guess not?? I didn’t give him false hope???

Damn like I was still balancing my own academic + professional + personal obligations and mental health ?? I will do basically anything for someone I love and as his gf ended up taking on quite a bit . But I was 21/22 w. a rigorous course+research load,demanding job, & my own traumas & mental illness to manage??? I loved tf out of him but I am too young & too shaky myself for the dynamic we had to have been sustainable?? I don’t regret putting him onto therapy+psychiatry & the business/financial resources/techniques but being his buffer for the industry stuff in LA was exhausting & fucked w me. I hate almost everything about LA& I get that he’s more introverted than me + has wild imposter syndrome but he was the one who had a right to be there I’m not even remotely connected to that field and again I despise most of the LA bitches- I’m in my early 20’s obviously I would still have wild self esteem issues etc?? I would literally be crying for a good portion of the drive or flight down there almost every time after the first one. But as he would literally run every single business decision or interaction by me & even once the money started coming + he had validation regarding his skill set, for awhile he still would be second guessing the creative aspect of it; and he only really trusts & is out of his shell completely with his Oakland friends, people in LA/anyone he works with he views strictly as clients/collaborators - he wouldn’t go to anything he needed to in LA if I wouldn’t come with him. Okkk yes he was ode loyal/ attentive to me as well as supportive + invested in my stuff & we really protected/looked out for one another in different ways, so it’s not that he was undeserving.. I just can’t be or do everything for someone!!! I also would not even have chance of being close to happy if I stayed in states now that I am completely disillusioned with medicine ??

“That’s insane that you’ve been able to move on like this that’s so fucking ode [my name redacted]. I bet you were fucking other people when were together”

What. the . fuck. I WAS NOTHING BUT LOYAL WHEN WE WERE TOGETHER AND UNLESS I WAS IN CLASSES OR WORKING WE WERE TOGETHER!! I actually have never spent so much time with one person (and didn’t even mind it) before or after him. He knows I never cheated on him smfh he hurled this same accusation back in the winter after I started hooking up with someone again. So I don’t really get why he’s even acting like this is brand new information because the inciting incident for me to cut him off completely a few months ago was how he was handling me hooking up with someone. Don’t ask questions you don’t want the answer to tbh??

Also if it wasn’t for pandemic or if he was IN LA as a single man, I’m sure he would’ve ended up with at least someone ?? Yeah he’s not a hookup kinda guy but if he was taking the same drgz but Im not there than Im sure he’d have plenty of bodies, he’s objectively gorgeous to the point that people are wild confused by his personality & mannerisms.

ALSO we’ve been broken up technically since the fall!! I’ve hooked up with TWO people, which is my prerogative?? I could hookup with a ton of people and it would still be well within my rights as in no way are he and I together ?? It doesn’t mean I don’t care or love him at all but it’s literally mid- May?? I get that he’s mainly upset that the person I most recently was with is the guy from Feb. What I didn’t count on or realize was that I had given J enough info that combined with his naturally sharp memory he’d piece together that the Feb/recent guy is the last person I was in love with before the relationship w J. Once he figured that out he was pressing for more info but I never give out names from situations anyways & I actually had to aggressively ask him if he enjoyed being hurt or something because there’s no reason he needs to fixate on this ??

“this is so fucked up youre not gonna give us a chance to say goodbye for real?? you promised me that it wouldn’t be the last time we saw each other , was this your plan all along ? i can’t believe i really thought you were gonna come back . i’m so fucking stupid. when i heard about schools, even graduations, going online i convinced myself that you still had to come back here or that you’d find a reason. what the fuck rachel! what am i supposed to do?”

Ok he started off yelling (for him) there but once it was just crying i got that his abandonment issues are triggered & that’s definitely valid but he can’t guilt me into coming out to Oakland & based off the past couple days he is not in a place that I can trust myself around. We’d definitely end up fucking & probably doing drgz & there would be no closure we’d just have intense /cinematic experiences that will make separation that much harder AGAIN. We can bring out the best in one another but we also bring out the absolute worst!! We can’t forget the truly fucking horrible parts of our relationship and how out of control it was. Love is not enough!!! The way we loved one another was all consuming & that doesn’t work when there’s soooo much individual healing+ growth that needs to happen.

of course i still love him as well , but i can’t even remind him of that as it’ll then be “so you’ll come back?” fuck like people can love people and know not to be with them!! if i was in a better place maybe i’d think about it; but i’m so far from where I need to be. ofc I miss a lot about him and the relationship but it’s more detrimental than it is beneficial!! it’s not like he didn’t have his grievances too he just doesn’t keep them in perspective in this type of situation . like yeah we coexisted extraordinarily well & never had little arguments over dumb shit/ needed a break from one another; but when we would fight it would be a massive aggressive blowout. ok great we didn’t find one another annoying but also we were respectively v fucking triggered by some deep rooted behavior (i.e our respective parents +trust issues, ptsd and psychosis manifested completely differently; bc of our constant proximity to one another - my BP was on full display multiple times; i accepted he was set on carrying but it was ultimately more like stockpiling ; we both at times did reckless things which made us obsess over the other’s safety [mine mainly in mixed or manic states] ; different attitudes/approaches to drgz) . the codependency was in some lights eventually p unhealthy , especially as eventually down the road itd be impossible to accommodate that degree of attachment to one another!!

ok in some way it’s romantic or w/e that we literally couldn’t be w/o one another at night but also we made it way harder on ourselves when we’d focus on making sure we could be with the other at their obligation instead of our respective responsibilities(i.e me always in LA with him, he ended up coming overseas 3x (EU&Middle East) when I was there for work/conference( for countries he wouldn’t be able to get into he waited at w/e neighboring one would be safe for him), based his UK work trip around my exams schedule so he could bring me, brought me to PFW, etc. ) even considering taking space at any point was never a real conversation.. we were genuinely best friends but just bounced back from w/e dysfunctional argument we had vs solving it and we’re both mad paranoid people & we need someone to physically be there to feel reassured;on the surface and in actuality in some ways the dynamic was ideal- (regardless tho having someone be your primary safety is hardly fail-safe ).

Both of us are insomniacs & deal w night terrors; but from v. early on we figured out how to handle these things in each other to the point that both of us stopped our respective nighttime vices & could sleep naturally; in the case of night terrors the other person would soothe them back. His overwhelming need to protect found a match with my overwhelming longing for safety even before we knew a ton about one another&the respective back stories. Because of Chantel Miller’s assault case that had gone viral(re:the SU Swimmer case) years before, J was convince su at night was dangerous & always picked me up+ put pepper spray canister in my bag literally a week after we first met. When he learned my history/some of the traumas (mainly nyc r**** & parts i shared re:tr********* abroad) etc he was especially ode about my overall safety. (Tbf he has seen a lot in his life but he mistook my taking risks at times as being completely oblivious when most of the times it was because I had assessed the situation and compared to other experiences and I knew I could handle it; ofc for some of the episodic instances it was way more precarious of a situation. )When it was clear that it wasn’t just some over controlling maneuver, it was just easier to try and listen to him about which areas and times to avoid tbh& spared the details of my ~pickups~. He didn’t need protection in the same way; besides the support/‘protection’ for LA/industry stuff, he needed emotional support/validation, reassurance, and to be nurtured & encouraged.

#mheuxarchives

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sunflowersandcerulean · 6 years

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1. Be together for the right reasons

I asked people who were on their second or third (or fourth) marriages what they did wrong. Where did they mess up?

By far, the most common answer was “being with the person for the wrong reasons.”

Some of these wrong reasons included:

Pressure from friends and family

Feeling like a “loser” because they were single and settling for the first person that came along

Being together for image—because the relationship looked good on paper (or in photos), not because the two people actually admired each other

Being young and naive and hopelessly in love and thinking that love would solve everything

As we’ll see throughout the rest of this article, everything that makes a relationship “work” (and by work, I mean that it is happy and sustainable for both people involved) requires a genuine, deep-level admiration for each other. Without that mutual admiration, everything else will unravel.

2. Have realistic expectations about relationships and romance

You are absolutely not going to be absolutely gaga over each other every single day for the rest of your lives, and all this “happily ever after” bullshit is just setting people up for failure.

Romantic love is a trap designed to get two people to overlook each other’s faults long enough to get some babymaking done. It generally only lasts for a few years at most.

True love—that is, deep, abiding love that is impervious to emotional whims or fancy—is a choice. It’s a constant commitment to a person regardless of the present circumstances. It’s a commitment to a person who you understand isn’t going to always make you happy—nor should they!—and a person who will need to rely on you at times, just as you will rely on them.

3. The most important factor in a relationship is not communication, but respect

Communication, no matter how open, transparent and disciplined, will always break down at some point. Conflicts are ultimately unavoidable, and feelings will always be hurt.

And the only thing that can save you and your partner, that can cushion you both to the hard landing of human fallibility, is an unerring respect for one another, the fact that you hold each other in high esteem, believe in one another—often more than you each believe in yourselves—and trust that your partner is doing his/her best with what they’ve got.

4. Talk openly about everything, especially the stuff that hurts

If something bothers you in the relationship, you must be willing to say it. Saying it builds trust and trust builds intimacy. It may hurt, but you still need to do it. No one else can fix your relationship for you. Nor should anyone else.

5. A healthy relationship means two healthy individuals

Understand that it is up to you to make yourself happy, it is NOT the job of your spouse.

Shitty, codependent relationships have an inherent stability because you’re both locked in an implicit bargain to tolerate the other person’s bad behavior because they’re tolerating yours, and neither of you wants to be alone.

A healthy and happy relationship requires two healthy and happy individuals. Keyword here: “individuals.” That means two people with their own identities, their own interests and perspectives, and things they do by themselves, on their own time.

6. Give each other space

Be sure you have a life of your own, otherwise it is harder to have a life together. What do I mean? Have your own interests, your own friends, your own support network, and your own hobbies. Overlap where you can, but not being identical should give you something to talk about and expose one another to. It helps to expand your horizons as a couple, but isn’t so boring as both living the exact same life.

– Anonymous

7. You and your partner will grow and change in unexpected ways; embrace it

One theme that came up repeatedly, especially with those married 20+ years, was how much each individual changes as the decades roll on, and how ready each of you have to be to embrace the other partner as these changes occur. One reader commented that at her wedding, an elderly family member told her, “One day many years from now, you will wake up and your spouse will be a different person, make sure you fall in love with that person too.

8. Get good at fighting

What Gottman does is he gets married couples in a room, puts some cameras on them, and then he asks them to have a fight.

Notice: he doesn’t ask them to talk about how great the other person is. He doesn’t ask them what they like best about their relationship.

He asks them to fight. Pick something they’re having problems with and talk about it for the camera.

And from simply analyzing the film for the couple’s discussion (or shouting match, whatever), he’s able to predict with startling accuracy whether a couple will divorce or not.

But what’s most interesting about Gottman’s research is that the things that lead to divorce are not necessarily what you think. Successful couples, like unsuccessful couples, he found, fight consistently. And some of them fight furiously.

He has been able to narrow down four characteristics of a couple that tend to lead to divorces (or breakups). He has gone on and called these “the four horsemen” of the relationship apocalypse in his books. They are:

Criticizing your partner’s character (“You’re so stupid” vs “That thing you did was stupid”)

Defensiveness (or basically, blame shifting, “I wouldn’t have done that if you weren’t late all the time”)

Contempt (putting down your partner and making them feel inferior)

Stonewalling (withdrawing from an argument and ignoring your partner)

The reader emails back this up as well. Out of the 1,500-some-odd emails, almost every single one referenced the importance of dealing with conflicts well.

Advice given by readers included:

Never insult or name-call your partner. Put another way: hate the sin, love the sinner. Gottman’s research found that “contempt”—belittling and demeaning your partner—is the number one predictor of divorce.

Do not bring previous fights/arguments into current ones. This solves nothing and just makes the fight twice as bad as it was before. Yeah, you forgot to pick up groceries on the way home, but what does him being rude to your mother last Thanksgiving have to do with anything?

If things get too heated, take a breather. Remove yourself from the situation and come back once emotions have cooled off a bit. This is a big one for me personally—sometimes when things get intense with my wife, I get overwhelmed and just leave for a while. I usually walk around the block two or three times and let myself seethe for about 15 minutes. Then I come back and we’re both a bit calmer and we can resume the discussion with a much more conciliatory tone.

Remember that being “right” is not as important as both people feeling respected and heard. You may be right, but if you are right in such a way that makes your partner feel unloved, then there’s no real winner.

9. Get good at forgiving

To me, perhaps the most interesting nugget from Gottman’s research is the fact that most successful couples don’t actually resolve all of their problems. In fact, his findings were completely backwards from what most people actually expect: people in lasting and happy relationships have problems that never completely go away, while couples that feel as though they need to agree and compromise on everything end up feeling miserable and falling apart.

To me, like everything else, this comes back to the respect thing. If you have two different individuals sharing a life together, it’s inevitable that they will have different values and perspectives on some things and clash over it. The key here is not changing the other person—as the desire to change your partner is inherently disrespectful (to both them and yourself)—but rather it’s to simply abide by the difference, love them despite it, and when things get a little rough around the edges, to forgive them for it.

10. The little things add up to big things

Of the 1,500 responses I got, I’d say about half of them mentioned at some point or another one simple but effective piece of advice: Don’t ever stop doing the little things. They add up.

Things as simple as saying, “I love you,” before going to bed, holding hands during a movie, doing small favors here and there, helping with some household chores. Even cleaning up when you accidentally pee on the toilet seat (seriously, someone said that)—these things all matter and add up over the long run.

11. Sex matters… a LOT

But sex not only keeps the relationship healthy, many readers suggested that they use it to heal their relationships. That when things are a bit frigid between them or that they have some problems going on, a lot of stress, or other issues (i.e., kids), they even go so far as to schedule sexy time for themselves. They say it’s important. And it’s worth it.

12. Be practical, and create relationship rules

Then there’s how relationships actually work.

Messy. Stressful. Miscommunication flying everywhere so that both of you feel as though you’re in a perpetual state of talking to a wall.

The fact is relationships are imperfect, messy affairs. And it’s for the simple reason that they’re comprised of imperfect, messy people—people who want different things at different times in different ways and oh, they forgot to tell you? Well, maybe if you had been listening, asshole.

The common theme of the advice here was “Be pragmatic.” If the wife is a lawyer and spends 50 hours at the office every week, and the husband is an artist and can work from home most days, it makes more sense for him to handle most of the day-to-day parenting duties. If the wife’s standard of cleanliness looks like a Home & Garden catalog, and the husband has gone six months without even noticing the light fixture hanging from the ceiling, then it makes sense that the wife handles more of the home cleaning duties.

It’s economics 101: division of labor makes everyone better off. Figure out what you are each good at, what you each love/hate doing, and then arrange accordingly. My wife loves cleaning (no, seriously), but she hates smelly stuff. So guess who gets dishes and garbage duty? Me. Because I don’t give a fuck. I’ll eat off the same plate seven times in a row. I couldn’t smell a dead rat even if it was sleeping under my pillow. I’ll toss garbage around all day. Here honey, let me get that for you.

13. Learn to ride the waves

The man said something like, “relationships exist as waves, people need to learn how to ride them.” Upon asking him to explain, he said that, like the ocean, there are constant waves of emotion going on within a relationship, ups and downs—some waves last for hours, some last for months or even years. The key is understanding that few of those waves have anything to do with the quality of the relationship—people lose jobs, family members die, couples relocate, switch careers, make a lot of money, lose a lot of money. Your job as a committed partner is to simply ride the waves with the person you love, regardless of where they go. Because ultimately, none of these waves last. And you simply end up with each other.

#relationships #love #marriage #markmanson

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