#i dont care about you opinions whether ur pro or anti if you do that shit in general you cant join | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

loxxxlay · 3 years

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actually one brief rant -- it is interesting because i feel like a lot of the ragnarok discourse is characterized by: an emotionally explosive reaction to one very specific scene while ignoring the smaller, less emotionally jarring scenes that give a much broader context.

so on the surface those anti-ragnarok posts look like a really good analysis - because they ARE a really good analysis.... of that one specific scene.

but in divorcing that scene from the context, the analyzer betrays their own agenda.... similar to the way cancel culture will alienate one single line from its context to paint a certain picture of a person (though ofc less amoral considering this is fiction)

and its like... i get it. because that One Scene or that other One Scene evoked such emotion in you that, of course, it became ur center of focus.. whereas the scenes that didnt evoke emotion for u are harder to remember. but see, that is the exact textbook definition of Bias, and good analysis strives to find some level of objectivity (an impossible standard for us humans but makes for more compelling arguments when we try).

like i often try to say, the movie doesnt care how u feel about it. the movie doesnt give a shit if u liked it or didnt like it. the movie only cares about its own universe and its own metric and its own logic. the movie only cares about how its different little aspects build upon each other into a whole. the movie only cares about how it was trying to make u feel.

understanding what it was trying to do AND whether or not it was working is the building block to good analysis. and ragnarok discourse talks a lot about how it wasn't working... but NOT a lot about what it was trying to do.

for example (note: i dont feel this way, just giving an objective alternate perspective to show how this might work), good anti ragnarok discourse might take my recently reblogged post and say "the scene before the elevator was thor trying to open a conversation with loki to apologize about the hurt he had caused, but that scene wasnt very emotionally compelling or memorable bc of the fact that it was happening adjacent to a distracting fight sequence. later, it fell even more flat because the obedience disc scene contradicted many of thor's statements and was a lot more emotionally arousing and evisceral - thus, it was more memorable in comparison, making the earlier scene feel inadequate"

but instead all we see is "wow thor electrocuted his brother after centuries of already dominating him pre-thor; what a fucking ableist movie" ... which like sure, its a valid take for that scene if you would like to argue it (note: pls dont where i can see it T.T) but like... pre-thor is a context from a long time ago and another movie... is that pre-thor context relevant to this scene, according to the movie's intent? if so, then how did this scene remind you of it? what specific techniques did the movie use to bring it up for you?

like... we dont watch a movie scene about a girl getting chocolate cake for her birthday and think "omg this scene is conveying Abuse bc *i* dont like chocolate cake and forcing me to eat chocolate cake on my bday would be abusive." we consider the girl's reaction to the cake. we consider the narrative's opinion on what chocolate cake means in this specific context.

AND ITS TOTALLY VALID to be like "well even tho the movie is telling The Story of a Good Bday Party, i kinda wish they had writen a story about an abusive bday party instead bc that would have fit my personal preference better and i wanted to see a story like that about these characters." but that doesnt necessarily make it an objectively bad movie*. it just means u didnt like it.

(unless u can tie it to a Commonly Done and Very Clear perpetuation to a systemic problem in society... but even then u have to do the work of proving it... and avoiding sounding like ur in favor of censorship. and im not seeing that work get done very compellingly either.)

and i know the above examples are a BIT of an overexaggeration... but it's to help ppl get practice in seeing what this shit looks like for when its NOT so obvious. next time u see an anti-ragnarok (hell even a pro-ragnarok) post, consider not only what the poster is saying but also what they are NOT saying. which scenes are they NOT bringing up? are any of those scenes relevant? do any of those scenes possibly change the meaning of the post or add complexity? what made those scenes succeed or not succeed depending on ur opinion? and i guarantee that u will either start to see massive holes in their arguments or at least start to see places where u can ADD to their arguments constructively so that they stop leaning so aggressively into anti-other-ppl's-opinions territory idk

tldr; maybe id be more down to read ragnarok discourse more if it literally followed the Supporting Evidence -> Alternate Take -> Rebuke format that our poor english professors begged us to learn and we ignored... instead of this, like, total echo chamber of biased thoughts.

#i am generalizing #not all ragnarok discourse is like this #the vast majority is #and a lot of ragnarok positivity is like this too #the interesting thing tho is that ragnarok positivity posts i see are usually rebukes to ragnarok negativity #so they are already doing the above because they have to consider the context in order to rebuke an alt pov #whereas ragnarok discourse usually is in direct response to the movie #so considering a larger context isnt literally built into their thinking like it is #for ragnarok positivity #in short both sides would be stupid but luckily the design of the situation has led #to one side at least sounding less stupid #noah fence #lox talks personal #ragnarok positivity

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cognacdelights · 3 years

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thank you for sharing ur opinion on elaine bc honestly its all true and the fact that she tries to cover it all up saying it was so long ago and was not educated i feel is complete bs and i hate the fact that people try to cover for her just bc she's dating rudy idk what it is about her but i dont like her at all

i’m honestly not here to “hate” on her. i don’t care about petty things, and that includes whether she’s dating/sleeping with/whatever with rudy pankow. my issue is solely with her, her actions, her opinions and her attitude. i don’t like her either, and for the most part i keep it to myself because like i said... me having that opinion isn’t going to change anything. it doesn’t effect her, or rudy, or their relationship one bit. i also try to avoid them at all costs, i don’t care, i don’t want to know, and anything i do know is from seeing on the dash or incorrectly tagged posts. i got so sick of seeing things about them/her, i filtered anything tagged or containing her out.

i also don’t think she should have or deserves the platform she has. for one, she is a crew member so why in gods name people are making fan accounts for her is beyond me. she hasn’t done anything noteworthy or remarkable worth celebrating, and definitely nothing to be idolising. secondly, by giving her a platform you’re glamorising her racism and anti-feminist, pro-life and slut-shaming attitudes and opinions, and consequently excusing them. so i��m also assuming anyone who does idolise her, make excuses for her and/or “stan” her, then you also hold those kind of views. one off-handed comment is a mistake, two is ignorance and a lack of education, but multiple and repeated comments like that are an ingrained attitude. it’s not just the past. also, weren’t they said like a year ago? when she was a fully grown, competent adult?

it also says a lot about him too, so...

#replies

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