#elriel? forget about it

[enamoured-x]

Vassien is hotter than Elucien and Elriel is hotter than gw*nriel. These are just the facts. Heavy on the HOT for Vassien. Our lord of flame and bird of fire. 🔥 And Elriel, well that’s just obvious that they would be hotter than any other person you could pair either of them with. Death and his lovely fawn. Light & dark. Sunshine gf and broody bf.🫶🏽

#like let’s get serious #vassien would be so sexy together #elucien… yeah no that’s boring af #elriel? forget about it #they really will serve grumpy x sunshine trope SO WELL #everyone else can go home #we have our couples right here #acotar #elain archeron #azriel #elriel #sarah j maas #acotar 5 #azriel shadowsinger #lucien vanserra #vassa #vassien

[deathsweetblossoms]

The fact that Elide is the only one to ask about Lorcan, and the fact that she even says in her POV “nobody had thought about him” has me SUFFERING on this Thursday morning.

The fact that the only reason he wound up as critical as he did was because she said she didn’t care if he walked off the battle field. I am simply *not going to recover* anytime soon.

#Elorcan #also the damn elriel parallel #“what about Elain?’ and then everyone is like shit we forgot about Elain #‘where is Lorcan?’ and everyone is literally like shit…we forgot about Lorcan how did we forget Lorcan #the man would have died alone and forgotten #but she sacrificed everything for him and found him #it’s just omg omg omg

[silverdreamscapes]

It’s hard to believe that Elain will be the main character or the main focus of an elucien book…when 90% of the theories I’ve seen posted by eluciens all revolve around Lucien and not Elain.

For all this talk of Elain needing to leave the NC and her family to “find herself” and become her own person, it’s weird that most of the plot points of an elucien book center Lucien and not Elain.

Elain has to leave the Night Court so that she can live with Lucien in the Day Court or Autumn Court because those are the ones that he’s most connected to. Not her.

Elain has to leave her family which she loves so that she can live with Lucien’s family and help heal all of those broken bonds apparently. Elain just needs to forget her family because sometimes sisters just don’t get along or need to be close. But yet somehow, Lucien needs to heal the rift with him and Eris. And then Elain needs to help him through the shock of learning Helion and not Beron is his father. So basically fuck Elain’s family, Lucien’s is more important

Elain needs to leave her friends Nuala and Cerridwen who played a pivotal part in her healing. So that she can hang out with Lucien’s friends the BOE. One of which includes a man who played a very big part in her trauma.

The rejected mating bond that’s been hinted at has nothing to do with Elain. It has to do with Lucien’s parents, Helion and Lady Autumn. A rejected mate bond would be a huge storyline for any book but it’s going to be a side plot with the side characters involved in Lucien’s storyline. And then Elain can pat his hand and comfort him through all the angst after the Maury Povich reveal that Beron is in fact not the father.

Who cares about Elain being a seer or a spy when she can play the socialite trophy wife to Lucien the grand Emissary and High Lord. She can mingle and plan parties and be pretty and charming at balls because apparently she’s a giant extrovert (which we have not seen).

For all this discourse around an Elriel book being bad for Elain because Azriel would be the focus and not Elain, I have yet to see a plot for an elucien book that centers on Elain and not Lucien. So I find it hard to believe they actually care about Elain, when she seems like nothing more than a means to an end to give the poor ginger cinammon roll Lucien the story and ending they think he deserves.

#elain archeron #elriel #azriel #acotar #anti l*cien #anti el*cien

[offtorivendell]

My thoughts on the Bryce, Azriel and Nesta HOFAS bonus chapter...

Disclaimer: as suggested by the title, the following discusses the Walmart HOFAS bonus chapter featuring Azriel, Bryce and Nesta. I haven't read the main text, so it won't feature anything related to that, but there are massive Maasverse and HOFAS spoilers ahead regardless. Please beware.

These are just my initial thoughts, not expanded upon in any substantial way and, as usual, I could always be way off the mark.

Also, yes, fair warning that I'll be mentioning the ACOTAR characters a lot. If that's not your jam, and you'd rather avoid any of the possible implications of the crossover, then I'd give this post a miss. On the other hand, if you're interested in how CC/HOFAS may affect Prythian going forward, please read on.

Music:

The Stone Mother song has me 👀 especially as the stone and water were "talking" at the start.

@cassianfanclub and @wingedblooms have already posted about the Stone Mother (here and here); @ladynightcourt3 has found the Phrygian goddess Cybele, also known as the "Mountain Mother," who sounds very relevant.

That being said, am I crazy to think Elain could have been listening in? Is Azriel stone and Elain water? His stone siphons - which Elain called beautiful, did she hear their song, as kin? - and Elain possibly as water? Was she using salt water to boost her powers, or a reflection pool to scry, and keep tabs on her sister and friend?

Or is it the space between linking worlds? Are the old gods talking?

Alternatively, could stone be referring to Nuala and Cerridwen, who are capable of manifesting stone around themselves and others (ACOTAR).

Is this what SJM meant when she said we'd see Elain in "some form" in the next book?

@psychee92 said she wished that SJM had somehow included Mr Brightside, and now I wish the same; even a mention of indie rock. 😭

Josie and Laurel - "He/god will add/increase" "(laurel) trees/victory"? Elain? Lol sorry, but it's either giving gardener, or Elain killing Hybern.

Wraith-like harmonies? After the description of Josie and Laurel's voices? It's crack, but is it a metaphor for Nuala and Cerridwen?

The musical similarities between what Juniper dances to and Prythian's music?!

Azriel's humming/singing made the shadows dance, once more suggesting that shadows dancing is a response to power, not mate bonds

The music Az liked was death metal. Could this link to any sort of metal artefact, like an iron crown for grounding? Or wyrdstone jewellery?

The glass coffin?

"Nineteenth century literature presents the glass coffin as a prison within which sleeping women are frequently mistaken for dead or vice versa." (Source). It's giving Sleeping Beauty (credit to @elriell for the OG SB theory), and a little Snow White.

Check out this tale from The Brothers Grimm, which sounds... suspiciously relevant to Elain.

@cassianfanclub also suggested that it's giving necromancer vibes, and I'd love that for Elain.

Feyre once said she could sleep for a hundred years after coming back from the Prison, right before going to the Hewn City in ACOWAR. After Elain had left the room, and before Feyre went to check in on her to find her "asleep—breathing."

Let's not forget Elain's assistance in rescuing the human COTB, Briar, from Hybern's camp.

Will Elain prick herself while weaving?

I was tired enough that I could barely summon the breath to ask, “Do you think the Cauldron made her insane?” “I think she went through something terrible,” Lucien countered carefully. “And it wouldn’t hurt to have your best healer do a thorough examination.” I rubbed my hand over my face. “All right.” My breath snagged on the words. “Tomorrow morning.” I managed a shallow nod, rallying my strength to rise from the chair. Heavy—there was an old heaviness in me. Like I could sleep for a hundred years and it wouldn’t be enough. “Please tell me,” Lucien said when I crossed the threshold into the foyer. “What the healer says. And if—if you need me for anything.” I gave him one final nod, speech suddenly beyond me. I knew Nesta still wasn’t asleep as I walked past her room. Knew she’d heard every word of our conversation thanks to that Fae hearing. And I knew she heard as I listened at Elain’s door, knocked once, and poked my head in to find her asleep—breathing. - ACOWAR, chapter 27

Azriel specifically said Nesta "beheaded" Hybern, after looking down at Truth-Teller.

This is not Azriel giving Nesta credit for the assassination. If anything he's hiding Elain's involvement.

I've said before, and I'm sure I'm not the only one who has done so, but I would expect Azriel to protect his LI with silence, whoever they are.

He had to have been thinking about Elain, who I've theorised could now/soon be known as "The Shadowsinger's Knife" after she became the "knife in the dark" in Azriel's place at the end of ACOWAR.

The young girl sitting on the mushroom:

I'm still looking into the carving of the young girl sitting on the toadstool with the hound sprawled on the ground beside her, as I find it really interesting. My initial thought was that it seemed like a convenient place to drop a mention of a garden-like fairy carving with a hound right after Bryce had quizzed Azriel about his hypothetical mate, or lack thereof (Elain being both heavily associated with plant life, thanks to her "little garden," as well as dogs, after Nesta called her one in ACOSF).

I also wonder if it has anything to do with the Czech tale that amanita muscaria - while psychoactive/toxic - are said to protect from lightning and other ill fortune. If this is correct, it reminds me a little of the markings - wyrdmarks - on the Archeron cottage.

I don't know where Bryce and co were walking, as I have only read this bonus chapter and the prologue, but given it was carved on an underground wall, and I suspect that there are underground portals in at least the Hewn City and the Prison, and maybe the waterways... could it have been for protection against the invading lightning Asteri? Or did the Asteri (Daglan?) put them there to protect against Thunderbirds, or whatever Hunt is?

Miscellany

Maybe Bryce hadn't been sent there by Urd? Who then? Was @silverlinedeyes right all along?

The mention of pleasure halls seems like a call back to Azriel's bonus chapter, but it's also likely that they aren't all brothels (see Rita's).

Azriel listening closely about Nesta now liking being Fae; he could extrapolate her responses to Elain. Maybe she's no longer miserable, and in need of their pity. And maybe she's changed her mind from ACOFAS, when she said to Feyre "I don't want a mate, I don't want a male."

Azriel said "no" to whether or not he has a mate rather quickly. Hmm... the shadowsinger doth protest too much?

It's also potentially important that Nesta said "yes, WE are" curious about Azriel's mate status. Her, Azriel and most of the fandom! 😂

"Okay, okay," Bryce said. "But it'd be cool to know something about your world. Or about you." They were both silent. Bryce asked Nesta, "You have a mate, right?" She nodded to Azriel. "Do you?" "No." Azriel said quickly, flatly. "A partner or spouse?" "No." Bryce sighed. "Okay, then." Azriel's wings twitched. "You're incurably nosy." "I think that's the nicest thing you've said about me." Bryce winked at him. "Look, I just... I'm curious. Aren't you?" Azriel didn't answer, but Nesta said, "Yes. We are." - HOFAS, Bryce, Azriel and Nesta bonus chapter

All in all, while there were no overt mentions of Elain - and really, why would SJM do that in a series that wasn't Elain's own - imo we got the Elain-shaped holes in the text that I was hoping for, and I can't wait to see if there are any more in the full book.

#hofas spoilers #hofas bonus chapter #bryce azriel nesta bonus chapter #crescent city spoilers #hofas #hosab spoilers #acotar cc tog crossover theory #bryce quinlan #azriel shadowsinger #nesta archeron #elain archeron

[olenvasynyt]

One thing I did not like about the Azriel bonus chapter, and one thing that turned me off from Elriel in general, was how he sees Lucien. He says that Lucien “will never be good enough for Elain” and it fully ready to fight him in a blood duel something Lucien would NEVER call for btw.

I think these negative thoughts about Lucien stem from a mix of jealousy (because he says he cannot stand the smell of their mating bond), Lucien as a Vanserra and having Eris as a brother, and from his association with Tamlin. All of these can be sort of understandable if Az didn’t know Lucien and interact with him often. Lucien reports to him bi-weekly, he comes to the solstices. And anyone can see that Lucien is a good male who is respectful.

And in ACOWAR, Lucien knew that Az is the torture and spymaster of the Night Court. And let’s not forget that the Night Court and the inner circle have showing themselves as evil to the rest of Prythian for hundreds of years. And when we see Lucien think about Az for the first time, he says he’s a decent male.

Lucien doesn’t hold anything against Az. Lucien doesn’t make assumptions. But Azriel does. And this immediately turned me off from Elriel because I think Lucien is currently the better male than Az is.

#Dana rant #strong opinions #pro lucien vanserra #anti elriel #LUCIEN DESERVES BETTER

[pastelpinkkadan]

Imma say it. Having anyone but Elriel be endgame would be bad writing.

Having tons of romantic hints, protective scenes, lingering looks, and thoughts of lust between two characters for fours books just to turn around and have them end up with other people would be bad writing.

Having Elain end up with a male she has bluntly been uncomfortable around and have not had a SINGLE scene of chemistry together would be bad writing.

Having Azriel end up with a female he has been borderline indifferent to for YEARS (because he’s known about her for years, which some people seem to forget) that was only introduced in book 5 would be bad writing.

Completely bypassing lines like “Maybe the Cauldron was wrong” by two important characters and doing NOTHING with it would be bad writing.

Creating clear outside obstacles that keep two characters from being together…and literally just letting them keep them apart without any pushback would be bad writing.

Having a continuous theme of threes through the entire series and then suddenly just not sticking to it with huge characters would be bad writing.

And if there’s one thing I think we can all hopefully agree on in this fandom it’s that SJM is NOT a bad writer.

#acotar #acosf #elriel #elain archeron #pro elriel #pro elain #azriel #anti gwynriel #anti elucien

[acourtofthought]

Elucien's are attacked for thinking Elain will leave the NC for Spring / Day because she's is happy there. Because she's got purpose, friends, and her sisters. Because she declared she was part of the court.

But it's suddenly ok if she leaves to become High Lady of the Dusk Court?

Gwynriel isn't realistic because Trainer / Trainee relationships are inappropriate (aka forbidden in some situations though I guess they decided to forget about Feysand, Nessian, Rowaelin, how Chaol gave Yrene self defense lessons) .

Yet E/riel forbidden love is so romantic! 🤔

Gwynriels attacked for "romanticizing" Az's rescue of Gwyn from Sangravah in fanart.

Elriels regularly romanticizing Az's "dramatic" rescue (hiding in Feyre's shadow) of Elain during her kidnapping.

E/riels: "Elucien's bond is tainted because the Cauldron is tainted!"

Also Them: The Cauldron loves Elain!

They'll claim Lucien does the bare minimum for Elain because he's kept his distance since the novella.

While claiming Az loves Elain even though he admits to avoiding her.

They'll claim that because Lucien said he can't stand to be in the same room as Elain it's evidence he's not interested in her (despite him still staring at her with longing and disappointment a year later).

While claiming Az loves Elain.........because he can't stand being in the same room as her.

Hearing that Az didn't give Elain credit for killing the King because he knows she doesn't like the credit for violence.

While constantly using the hashtag Kingslayer

Gwynriels and Elucien's being bullied for commissioning non canon scenes.

While staring at all the art of Elain with a dagger tattoo, Az with a rose tattoo and them holding one another in a field of flowers while Az wears suspenders.

#elain archeron #lucien vanserra #anti e/riel

[lorcandidlucienwill]

SJM characters whose hate makes no sense

Lorcan Salvaterre: aight ik he's a cold-ass warrior but that Maeve thing is not as big a deal as it's made out to be ok. Y'all forget that Aelin was stupid hiding her plans from experienced war generals and that Lorcan never pretended to be loyal to Aelin. And he never intended for Aelin to go through that torture. Plus Maeve would've found them anyway! A little slower, yeah, but still. Nesta Archeron: ok, come on man. She said some mean words, get over it already pls. there are so many characters who did way worse and get no hate for it. Eris Vanserra: ok he called mor a slut. so what? he's playing a role, plus that bitch be spreading heinous lies about him. and he has shown more respect for mor by bailing her out of their marriage and saving her from her father keir, than the entire inner circle who subjected her to her abuser without even telling her. he's not sexist, he's a mama's boy! besides rhysand objectified feyre's breasts in front of a high lord so. Chaol Westfall: Aight bruh tf did he do? It's one thing knowing someone is an assassin and another thing seeing someone actually murder people. He had nothing to do with Nehemia's death, so don't even with that. Celaena was the one who tried to kill him after claiming to love him. What did you expect Chaol to be all sunshine and rainbows with her? Pls be fr. Besides he's Fleetfoot's number one protector so. Additionally, if you haven't read Tower of Dawn, you have zero content. Friendly reminder if you hate Chaol, Dorian AND Aelin don't like you. Nor do Yrene or Nesryn. Gwyneth Berdara: It's mainly Elriels who keep making up evil Gwyn theories and...stop. Just stop. I don't even gaf if you ship them, but don't drag Gwyn into this, ok? She's so precious and she's a r*pe SURVIVOR. LEAVE. HER. ALONE. And if you say she's lying about that and it's part of her evil plan, I will become the monster under your bed. Lucien Vanserra: If you call Lucien a pushover or an abuser, I will actually become violent. Stop blaming male abuse victims. Just stop it. It's ridiculous. Lucien did fight for her and got abused. Go back and read. He's a r*pe survivor too, because he took on the duties his High Lord wouldn't for the sake of his court. Also, if you're dragging him through the dirt because you're an Elriel shipper, the door is that way --> Bombastic side eye to haters of these characters. ESPECIALLY my favorite sassy redheads (Gwyn and Lucien). Maybe y'all are just salty all these characters have last names while half of your favs still don't.

#lorcan salvaterre #nesta archeron #eris vanserra #chaol westfall #gwyneth berdara #lucien vanserra #lorcan stan #pro nesta archeron #pro eris vanserra #pro chaol #pro gwyneth berdara #pro lucien vanserra

[acotar-taylorsversion]

Future ACOTAR Books

Ok, so Sarah is contracted for 2 more acotar novels and a novella, right?

Here's how I'm thinking its gonna be laid out.

ACOTAR -1, ACOMAF -2, ACOWAR -3, ACOFAS -novella 1, ACOSF -4

ACOTAR 5 - Elain's book with Azriel as love interest. I believe she will reject the bond with Lucien and help Nesta and Az with the trove and locating Koschei, the prison, Az and Nuala and Cerridwen helping her with her seer skills since it can be related to spying, and all that. There's much that could happen here and some many questions could be answered.

Novella 2 - this can be Vassa and Lucien's. I truly believe that if Elain would reject the bond, Lucien would allow himself to discover something with Vassa. This would push the story along for the Koschei storyline because I believe that Lucien and Vassa will be heavily involved with that. Sarah made Lucien a part of this band of exiles for a reason. We could also see or hear about what the inner circle is doing through their povs or through some type of correspondence through Lucien. This could possibly start while Elain's story is going on as well, if she rejects the bond early on in her book. She could even tie in Mor and what it is that she's doing since she's trying to get more allies for Rhys. And even Eris since he will be dealing with Beron and the aftermath of being caught. Seems like a lot but Tower of Dawn was meant to be a novella and look how that one turned out.

ACOTAR 6 - this could be a multi pov novel that centers around all the sisters and their chosen loves. And don't tell me she won't because she did it in acofas. OR it could be in feyre and Rhy's povs because they are sarah's favorite couple and if she had to end the series with any couple I believe it would be them. But anyway, I believe that Koschei will be the final big bad for acotar and its gonna take a lot to defeat him. it's gonna take everyone coming together just like they did with the king of Hybern. I also believe that people are gonna die. I've always felt that Mor would be the one to die and maybe Lucien, and Helion, and Tamlin. I think that a couple of courts would be left without high lords and this would allow Rhys and Feyre to become High King and Queen, especially after what we learned in HOFAS, its pretty much his birth right. Wouldn't be something since Tamlin told Feyre that there were no such things as High Lady's and she would end the series as High Queen! lol

This is what I think will be happen, and it's my opinion so I don't need anyone telling me that I'm crazy or delusional, none of that. Based on what happened in frost and starlight (the one that sarah said she set up the rest of the series in), I believe this is what could happen. Do I think Nesta's story is done? No, and we could have her pov in the last book with her sisters. Do I think the valkyries are gonna be main characters? No, I don't because I think they are there mainly for Nesta and I only see them helping with battles and maybe some research. That's it. Do I think the illyrians will be important? Maybe, but sarah has been known to forget about some plots or just completely shut them down in the next book. Remember how we all thought Kallon from frost and starlight was gonna be Cassian's enemy #1 in silver flames? Don't remember him at all? Exactly.

Sorry for the long post, I just have to get all of this out of my head before it drives me crazy. Just so y'all know, I'm pro elriel, feysand, nessian, vassien (if Lucien survives). I don't see how elucien could ever be a happy mated couple, and I don't see how people think Gwyn and Az could ever be romantic and you can't say the next book is Nesta's and say that sarah will have gwynriel as the couple when they would be side characters. Each book will be centered around a couple, right? Did she say new or established? I can't remember but the main couple wouldn't be in the background. And I don't see how Gwyn could carry an entire novel. I'm sorry, I just can't. It would be half of silver flames and I don't think Sarah will do that. And I do think its messed up how sarah and Bloomsbury have let this nasty ship war go on for this long.

But I do believe that this series started with Feyre and her sisters and it will end with her and her sisters. I believe Sarah has made such a big deal with 3's for a reason. Do you guys remember that scene in mist and fury where Mor (whose power is truth) painted the 3 sisters and 3 brothers on the wall in the cabin? That meant something. Mor's reaction to almost every Elriel interaction means something just like it did with Nesta and Cassian. Azriel being able to smell Elain's mating bond and questioning the cauldron means something. The sisters being Made means something. The fact that the cauldron was messed with means something.

Anyways, these are my thoughts. Sorry that this is so long. Please be kind.

#acotar #elain archeron #elriel #acotar 5 #vassien #azriel shadowsinger #pro elriel #lucien vanserra #vassa acotar #nesta archeron #feysand #pro elain archeron #anti g*ynriel #anti el*cien

[elrxiel]

"Bonus chapter ended Elriel!"

But here's the thing - it didn't have to.

If SJM had a change of heart during writing ACOSF or even before and decided that Gwyn and Az will be the final couple, she could have easily simply ignored writing anything about Azriel's feelings towards Elain. She could have not written about stolen glances - she could have written a scene where they have a conversation without any subtext, just a friendly encounter so the readers would get a clear sign - they are just friends, they are not interested in each other in any way. She could have switched the narrative - making Az behave towards any other character the way he behaves with Elain and making Elain not care, not look at him, not practically dying for him to kiss her.

But she did not.

Instead she wrote paragraphs saying Azriel cannot stand the smell of the mating bond between Elain and Lucien (which is alarming on its own, given the fact that he should not be able to smell it in the first place), that this man spent the last year almost sleepless because he keeps thinking about that girl and the gift she picked for him. She wrote Azriel questioning the Cauldron itself and Elain willing to risk it all even tho her mate was sleeping upstairs. SJM said directly with all of these "look, those two WANT each other, those scenes in previous books DID indicate that there is a mutual wanting between them".

Place yourself as an author for a second - would you really spend three books placing hints and scenes foreshadowing a couple only to "end" them in the bonus chapter, which most of the readers won't even know exist? Would you, knowing that you plan for other couples to be an endgame, wrote about things that literally point that those two characters are so into each other they don't give a single fuck about bonds and religion? Would you write another male guessing something only a mate should be able to guess, the same male being the only one noticing the woman is missing and going on a suicidal mission to get her back? Would you write "you came for me"? Would you write a full scene of this woman emerging from the shadows (the literal power of said male), using the blade he let touching only her? Would you write her buying gifts for him but not for any other man?

And finally, if you plan to make those two end up with different characters anyway, would you really write them like that? Az being the person pining for someone for 500 years and being the one knowing for ignoring orders, only to slowly develop feelings towards someone else who wants him back, would suddenly forget about it and move to a new girl in a heartbeat just because somebody said so? Elain being the person who stated blankly "I don't want him" indicating to her mate, being someone who shall wed for love, suddenly deciding "yes, you know what, I don't want this man who showed me nothing but kindness and who was the only one who actually saw and listened, who saved my life and then gave me a weapon to defend myself, I'm gonna be with my mate now, even tho I'm shrinking with discomfort whenever I'm near him". Even if it fits your fantasies, it does not fit the way characters were written. And at the end of the day, it's not the fantasies that matter. It's what has been written and given us to read and see ourselves.

#elriel #pro elriel #azriel x elain #anti e/lucien #anti g/wynriel

[kayla-2]

The side of the fandom that don’t think elriel is happening is also the side of the fandom that got just about every theory about hofas wrong even though they would like for you to forget that… so I’m not worried 🤣

#acotar #elriel #they said that Bryce would be in the library asking glee for translation help.. I ain’t forget. #they said Bryce would be chilling with the Valkyries

[lovemyromance]

You know what’s really funny? These so-called Gwyn stans going feral when someone says “I don’t know who Gwyn is” and claiming we’re all toxic and misogynistic for that alone.

Like, no, babe. People genuinely do not even remember who she is, and it has nothing to do with a certain bat boy.

When I was first reading ACOTAR at the behest of my friend, I did cheat a little and look up fan art before I finished the series. I saw Gwynriel fan art and asked my friend who is this redhead, and she literally said “honestly, no idea.” And I can assure you, my friend is way, WAY too busy to have a secret agenda against a fictional character so she genuinely forgot all about Gwyn. And before you even start, she doesn’t even ship Elriel, she hardcore ships Elucien.

Gwyn is very much a side character. Her purpose was to be Nesta’s friend, to be a part of Nesta’s healing journey. Nobody really remembers her outside of that.

ACOTAR is not TOG, nor is it CC. People keep bringing up Lidia from CC, and are forgetting CC has 3 books, and Lidia showed up as a main character in book 2. She got a POV in HOFAS, and the way CC was set up was always multiple POVs of many, many characters.

ACOTAR is not like that. We follow Feyre for 3 books (with some Rhys POV here and there), then get one novella of multiple POVs, then we follow dual POV of Nesta & Cassian.

Where in that story format do you see space for a background character to get an entire book?

Gwyn literally did not exist until book 5/7(?) of ACOTAR. She has not had a POV. She has not been mentioned outside of Nesta. She has no story, no plot, outside of Nesta. She does not exist outside of Nesta.

Nobody has an issue with Gwyn. Nobody is “anti-Gwyn”. Nobody’s out to get her.

She has like 4 pages of page presence in ACOSF. Do you know how long this book is and how many things happen? Why of all things would I fixate on a minor character in the background?

That’s like if I finished reading ACOTAR and was like, “omg but tell me about Alis, I must have an entire book about her journey and trauma. She must be SO important.” (Even Alis, btw had more presence in the series than Gwyn)

It’s not a personal thing at all. I don’t hate Gwyn. I don’t have any opinions on her, really.

How can we hate a character we don’t even care to remember in the first place?

#elriel #elain archeron #elain x azriel #azriel

[elrielbaby]

The way antis only look at things in a vacuum absolutely needs to be studied.

We’re excited about Time Magazine shouting out Elain & Azriel (and only Elain & Azriel)

They say: ‘Well all elriels have is magazine articles, we have canon on our side!’

We’re excited about canon text that proves our ship, over and over and over again.

They say: Well, look at this Facebook comment from SJM in 2017, before ACOWAR came out!

We’re excited because SJM wears something extremely Elain coded in a HOFAS selfie

They say: Ugh, and that’s all they cling to! How ridiculous -

Meanwhile, they’re over here calling it confirmation because Azriel is involved in a bonus chapter, and shouting from the roof tops because it being called ‘House of Flame and Shadow’ must mean it includes G*ynriel! (To this day I do not know why. Shadows because of Azriel obviously but how G*yn relates to Flame I haven’t got a clue. Maybe because her hair is red?)

They’ll say Azriel was only interested in Elain sexually because of the bonus chapter, yet seem to skip how he describes her so beautifully as she comes from under the stairs, how they can read each other without the extra help of Azriels shadows - they seem to forget the previous four books of interactions the two have, or even more hilariously, they do remember them but pass them off as brother/sister vibes… to which I am usually speechless because I cannot fathom admitting that, particularly after the bonus chapter and then expecting me to come around to your way of thinking, apparently?

But yeah. We’re crazy and have nothing 🤪

#pro elriel #elriel #anti gw*nriel #anti el*cien

[lullabestie14]

One of the most annoying lines Elriels use is “the man that was never chosen, and the woman who never had a choice.”

girl what? the man that was never chosen?

Just because Mor never chose him does not mean he is not chosen by anyone. Rhys and Cassian chose him as their friend, Rhys’s mom chose him as her son Rhys’s dad chose him as the spymaster. and the list goes on. what do you mean he was never chosen?

“the girl that never had a choice.” no one, and I mean no one, had a choice with their mating bond. Elain is not special here. And I don’t know if you know that, but Lucien is forced into this bond as well. Elriels tend to forget about this information a lot.

I have no idea why they have this love for twisting and changing canon text to fit their ship.

#elucien #gwynriel #acotar #anti e/riel #azriel #elain archeron #lucien vanserra #gwyneth berdara

[works-of-heart]

I don't get it.

Like seriously, I honestly don't understand it.

Sjm says that Elain was someone who she and Lucien didn't see coming. She had always envisioned him with Nesta, but realized they'd tear each other apart (not in a good way, as she loves that kind of banter, but theirs would be awful). She mentions 'without getting too spoilery' that and I quote:

"there was actually a great deal of tension, growth, and healing to be found for both of them (together)"

You mean to tell me, that she says there is a great deal of tension (which we've all been seeing between them), growth and healing for them TOGETHER ONLY to have Elain break her bond with him and leave him to suffer a broken bond?

You want to tell me that SJM planned to have Elain become Lucien's mate, so they could grow and heal together, only for her to dump him and choose Azriel, and leave Lucien alone with a broken bond?

This woman, who has written Lucien as kind, patient, understanding, and truly concerned for Elain, is planning on making his mate turn away from him? This man who is said to be fiercely loyal, who could have ANY woman in Prythian he wanted but has no interest in any females, who has suffered physical and emotional trauma to help his friends. You think Sarah is just going to be like "Yeah, I'm going to put Lucien with a girl who is all around perfect for him and just take her away so she can run into the arms of another man!"

Look, I torture my precious babies too, but that?! That's INSANE to me that anyone thinks Sarah planned to set him up with a mate and said all those things if she planned for it to be a failure.

Especially since she made a comment, unprompted mind you, about an Elucien date where they go visit the gardens in London, before heading out to the countryside, stating that they're BOTH happy in nature. So she's going to talk about Feysand, Nessien modern dating, and just throw in Elucien even though she doesn't even plan for them to be together?

it simply doesn't make any sense to me.

Like take a moment, to actually sit down and think, why would this author say those kinds of things if she as some had said "planned Elriel since MAF" when she literally states the opposite. She confirmed Nessien in that same moment as well, because the series was originally supposed to finish. Az and Elain didn't have anything together, they were never planned. She didn't change from that trajectory either (as stated in her interview that I guess people want to misquote, forget, or take her words completely out of context).

SJM did say there were SMALL changes, like some characters had been added (which I suspect are Gwyn and Em), Mor's sexual orientation, but the overall arch was still the same.

Honestly, here's what I think about that.

Azriel was always meant to have a mate. A lot of people pointed out that in MAF there was a lot of Moriel hints and they were meant to be endgame. When she got backlash for lack of LGBT representation, she just decided to have Mor's preference shift. I think it left Az without a mate, but by the time SF came around she began to leave breadcrumbs for who he'd end up with. That being Gwyn.

I personally think SJM wants Gwynriel so much so, that she retconned Az's backstory so he was the one at Sangravah. That he killed everyone in site, leaving none left alive (completely OOC for Az, yet fitting with mate behavior). Like if she had no intention for Az to be connected to her in such a way, why actively make HIM the one to save her? Why make it so that Az killed everyone and left not a single person alive?

Why did she have his shadows react to her in a very specific way, a way that's calm and happy? The way they sing and dance to her, reaching out to her in a playful way. Why would she change history and put attention on these things, if there was never any future for them? What, so we can see Az fall for Elain? You mean Sarah went out of her way to change parts of Az's story and how his shadows react specifically to Gwyn, just so he can turn from her and rush into the arms of Elain? Why bother?

And before anyone says "lightsinger" and Gwyn's 'evil powers' are causing Az's shadows to dance and sing... there's a whole bonus chapter where Az's shadows dance to Azriel's singing. Gwyn isn't even there, so that's debunked.

That's all, I just had to get that off my chest. I keep seeing so many people rant and say that SJM's old editor pushed for Elucien and her new one is pushing Elriel because it's more 'popular' and she's going in this new direction now. I have no idea where that came from when she said that nothing's changed from her drunken rant, so we'll see I guess.

#elucien #elucien supremacy #pro lucien vanserra #pro elucien #elain x lucien #pro gwynriel #gwynriel #gwyneth berdara #gwyn x azriel

[finaland]

What I like most about being a big Gwynriel fan is that I enjoy the characters just as SJM writes them.

We don't need to resort to changing the personalities of both because it's all there in the canon. There's no need for Gwyn to be a warrior and train because she already is. It's not necessary for her to like music and sing like Azriel because she already does (and isn't it just a coincidence that SJM highlights these qualities and ONLY they both do it?). There's no need for us to invent that she's a Carynthian like Azriel because she already is. We don't need to invent that Azriel's shadows interact with her because let's not forget, but the ONLY positive and repetitive interaction was with Gwyn.

On the other hand, for the Elriels, I only find that their ship would work if one of the characters drastically changes their personality. Elain is not a warrior, she's not interested in training, she shies away from evil and darkness... And from what little we know, the times she's been seen with Azriel (as he himself said) they didn't even exchange words.

In conclusion, the beauty of believing in this ship is that the evidence is clear and we don't have to change the personalities of either as SJM has made sure to leave many similarities in the canon.

#gwynriel #azriel #gwyneth berdara #anti e/riel