Discussion: is Hosie more of a supportive relationship or a toxic one?
While we all agree that Hope and Josie can sometimes be shitty, disrespectful, and manipulative to each other, I think that they are mostly supportive to each other. There are some people that think the opposite and conclude that Hosie is toxic. While I don't have problem with people shipping toxic ships too, I genuinely think that Hosie is mostly healthy for each other. To get a hold whether Hosie is supportive or toxic, I make this list of all Hosie interactions/scenes up to 3x13, which can be categorised as supportive or shitty that I can remember along with some of my thoughts. If you don't agree with me or forgot something, feel free to remind me or discuss them!
Thank you for making me feel the need to make this list. @legacies-supremacy
Thank you for helping me with some of the points. @dreamerdiving
The definition of toxic relationship is: “any relationship [between people who] don’t support each other, where there’s conflict and one seeks to undermine the other, where there’s competition, where there’s disrespect and a lack of cohesiveness.”
I marked those interactions/scenes that is harmful to Hosie in red so we can see it easily.
1. Josie burn down Hope’s room, without apologising
2. Josie made up stories about Hope calling Lizzie witch bipolar
3. Hope and Josie do dark magic together (hope ask for help, kindred spirit in revenge)
4. Hope stand up to Lizzie for Josie, while Lizzie threw Josie under the bus
5. Hope protected Josie by not telling Emma Josie being the one using dark magic with Hope
6. The scene where they pick trash, they connected really fast. It’s shown that they can have good communications between them.
7. Josie pays her respects to Hayley in front of Hope. It means a lot to Hope because she values her family.
8. Hope encourage Josie to voice up, fight for the things she desires. Josie helps Hope on her poked-herself situation.
9. They fought the first monster ever IN THE SCHOOL together. (Hope calls Josie to help, and Josie immediately do so)
10. Fight the spider-like monster together along with Lizzie.
11. The necklace that Hope gave Josie, make quiet things heard.
12. Hope, MG, Penelope save Josie together. Hope is very anxious (maybe more anxious than Penelope seems?), the necklace worked.
13. AU where Hope doesn’t exist, Josie dies.
14. AU where both of them straight up flirting, Hope comes to bring the Saltzmans to the Mikaelsons Boarding School, giving the twins a place to use and improve their magic freely. And mostly like cleans up the mess of Lizzie’s outburst (no blaming here).
15. When Hope was on slug, Josie is the first to suspect that she’s on happy pill, which is very close to the fact. While Landon and RAF see that she’s very happy but don’t think much of it, because they were new to her (no blaming). Landon sees that she’s very happy, said something like, you’re happy for first time ever?
16. Hope tell Josie to let her know if Josie needs someone to “take care” of Penelope.
17. Talent show: hope looks very happy and cheers for Josie when she sings (overly happy maybe because of slug)
18. Josie lets Hope sleep on her shoulder.
19. Josie does not come clean when Hizzie is fighting each other on “Hope telling the school Lizzie is witch bipolar” and “burn her room down to interfere with Saltzmans road trip”.
20. Josie finally come clean about burning Hope’s room and made up stories that causes Hizzie's rivalry, but Hope only cares about the crush. It can be said that Hope is very forgiving for Josie. - *smiles* you had a crush on me? (I mean, girl, she burned down your room)
21. Mystic fall pageant: Josie worries about Hope feelings when Hope finds out about the dress was from Klaus
22. When Josie distances herself from Lizzie after knowing about the merge from Penelope, Lizzie asks Hope to help make the food Josie likes the most. So it’s canon that Hope can actually make Josie’s favourite food? The attempts Hope made to repair the twins relationship show that Hope care for both of the twins.
23. Josie doesn’t want to interact with Hope either.
(May have forgotten hosie scene)
24. Triad: super squad team up, they help each other to save the school, it seems like when Hope says she has more backup, Josie is the one looks like leading them in.
25. Hope caught a bullet for Josie while Josie caught one for Lizzie as Lizzie was trying to catch them for Josie too.
26. Josie encourages Hope for hero time rather than staying by her side.
27. Hope only realised that she caught a bullet for Josie when Alaric asked about the hole on her sleeves. That leads to her knowledge on her blood can save Josie as well as herself being the loophole for Malivore. She tells Alaric to give Josie vial of her blood. (According to some fans, Stefan said that blood sharing is very personal.)
28. Josie is very confident that Hope will make it back to them, and urges Kaleb to have faith in Hope.
29. When Hope jumps into Malivore, something came over Josie, she feels most of the impact (maybe because Landon is dead at the moment)
30. Hope didn’t want to return to school because she sees that both Landon and Josie are very happy. She wants them to be happy.
31. While Josie is being jealous and hostile to Hope, she feels that there’s something off about Hope in her, not only jealousy.
32. Oni episode: Josie continues to be hostile to Hope because of her jealousy.
33. Hope as a badass tribrid, miraculously does not beat or intimidate or threaten Josie because of her hostility, whereas when other people do it, there will probably be consequences.
34. Josie is the one to seek Freya for the dark magic to bring back everyone’s memories.
35. Josie hit Freya using the newly-learned dark magic. Freya said something like even that spell is very powerful for a Mikaelson witch, meaning that the spell can have some strong effects on her. When Josie is questioned whether she knows what to do with the magic, in panic she hit Freya with this magic and run. It means that whether or not Josie choose to bring those memories back herself, there will surely be someone to bring them back when Josie opted not to do it. Even so, it’s Josie that contributed to bringing back people’s memories of Hope, or else Freya can never do it for Hope if the circumstances required her to do so.
36. If Josie is to bring back everyone’s memories, she knows that she will be the one that will be left behind and will be the second choice. She’s the one that will be badly affected, but she knows that she needs to do it, and calls Caroline to encourage her to do the right thing. (Or else why call? What kind of parents will encourage their child to do otherwise.)
37. Josie brings back everyone’s memories of Hope and save Hope and Lizzie from the Croatian.
38. Hope cares about Josie’s feeling to ask whether Josie is okay with Hope staying in the school. She is willing to leave the school for Josie.
39. Despite knowing that seeing Hope hurts a lot, Josie tells Hope to stay, and assure Hope that she belongs with them. For Josie, NO MATTER how much it hurts, she WANTS Hope ENOUGH to let her STAY, as Hope belongs with them. It’s what Hope wants: people thinking she’s worth staying for. It means that NO MATTER THE CIRCUMSTANCES, she hope that there’s still someone that WANTS HER ENOUGH to STAY for her.
40. Along with the previous point, it’s important to know that Josie tells Hope to stay after SimuLandon told Hope that Landon can’t tell her to stay (the same day as Landon chose to leave the girls). It assures Hope a lot.
41. Landon being a dick(sorry) to breakup with Josie and then immediately restarts a relationship with Hope (disrespect of Jandon relationship, it’s like an opposite of what he said to Josie). Hope being a bitch(sorry) by immediately accept the restart of Handon, disregarding it’s a fresh breakup for Jandon and Josie.
42. Josie avoids Hope because it hurts to see Handon immediately lovey dovey.
43. Santa episode: Hope is the one that handles Krampus-affected Josie when she tells Lizzie to run. Either the Josie being near to Lizzie will affect Lizzie, or Hope just want some time with Josie? For the former part, Hope protecting Lizzie also contributes to supporting Josie.
44. Hope actively seeks out Josie and helps Josie with the mora miserium - placing a protective barrier on it.
45. They confide in each other when they put a protective barrier on the mora miserium. They reveal their dark sides and weaknesses. They support each other verbally. (Hope reveal her jealousy towards Jandon, Josie asked Hope why Clarke chooses her, Hope said that it’s because Josie is a strong and trusting person, etc.)
46. In the Qareem/Wade-is-fairy episode, when Landon died, Hope protects the mora miserium first and passes it to Josie before going to Landon. (It’s a logical thing to do tho, Landon’s death can’t be undo but Hope can prevent Josie from going dark)
47. Hope go to the twins for comfort after her fight with Landon.
48. First therapy box episode: Hope comforts Josie after they come out from it.
49. People in numbers(the Saltzmans including Josie) vs Landon: Hope chose to save people in numbers which includes Josie, instead of saving Landon. (Prison world incident)
50. When Hope astral project into the prison world, Josie is the only one that can communicate with Hope because of the dark magic. It helped to save people and Josie herself in the prison world.
51. People in numbers (the whole school) vs Josie: Hope refuses to kill Josie when basically everyone is ready to kill Josie to save the school(including Alaric). (Lizzie is running away? Understandable tho, her life is in danger) Hope shuts Alaric and Kaleb in the therapy box to prevent them from killing Josie.
52. Dark Josie with Hope in the ring: they weren’t really putting effort in fighting each other before both of them call each other out.
53. I don’t think she even likes you - what’s the point of saying that when it is commonly known between Hope and Josie? So it must mean the opposite(which is Josie likes Hope) and solely to hurt Hope.
54. Josie, fight! - Hope can bring out the true Josie in dark Josie.
55. Dark Josie is agitated when Hope can really bring true Josie out. Maybe it’s because of losing control. But my clownness suggests that can also be a thing that both true and dark Josie do not want to reveal at all - that Hope weighs heavily in Josie’s heart.
56. Dark Josie is ready to kill Hope after Hope brought the true Josie out for seconds.
57. Hope goes into Josie’s subconscious to save her.
58. The actually-consensual kiss: when the pig tell Hope to try kissing Sleeping Josie, Hope respects Josie’s boundaries. But Hope never says that she is against kissing Josie at all because she now does not see her that way at all. = Hope will totally kiss Josie if the circumstances are right with a consent.
59. In Josie’s mind, true Josie really doesn't want to hurt Hope and urge her to leave before it’s too late.
60. Hope encourages Josie to trust herself with her power, that she is good and strong.
61. Dark Josie petrified Hope in Josie’s subconscious.
62. Josie did heed Hope’s words, she believes that Hope is good and strong.
63. Josie defends Hope by calling Landon out on him leaving Hope twice, and he doesn’t actually believe in not giving up love no matter what.
64. After Hope and Landon comes out from Malivore and the prison world, and Landon turns into goo after the unsafe intercourse (probably not using condom considering the result, there must be sexually fluid exchanged), Hope goes directly to the principal office and explains the situation, Josie is first to believe in Hope and is willing to teach her the spell.
65. When Hope’s Therapy-Box Ethan tells Hope that sometimes the right person for her is right in front of her. I think that it’s Hope’s subconscious of him promoting himself initially. But really, Hethan interactions are so little for me to really believe that Hope’s subconscious of the right person is referring him for that. So when Josie turns up next....(I’m clowning, but it means that Hope subconscious thinks that Josie is the right person, talk about faith.)
66. Hope believes that Josie wants Hope to be safe: Hope’s Therapy-Box Josie ants Hope to come with her? It means that Hope knows that Josie will want Hope to be safe with her together. To relate it more to the problem about Hope thinks that Josie runs away from problem and Hope solves them, it also means that a part of Hope wants to not face all these problems too. So part of her is constructing this scene to provide her an option, with Josie.
67. Josie is the only one Hope attempted to save in the therapy box.
68. Josie doesn’t help Hope grieves after Landon turned into goo. (to which I resent the writer’s effort in sabotaging Hosie in the show starting season 3 to make sure they sit right in the “not queerbaiting“ section. It doesn’t make sense that Hosie doesn’t interact at all.)
69. 3x08: Josie wants to help in finding Landon. No matter the motives, she wants to help, and the final results benefit Hope and Landon, not Josie.
70. I don’t need to deal with both Saltzman twins right now - Hope disrespects both twins.
71. Hope gaslights Josie to go help her postponing her date with Finch.
72. Josie believes in Hope too much to fall for her lies when Hope is apparently desperate. (Maybe that’s why Finch call Hope five feet of trouble, or we should believe that Finch is threaten by Hope or angry at Hope out of the blue?) - Hope is Josie’s blindspot too.
73. Josie is upset that Finch will hate her, but doesn’t seem angry about Hope lying( I’m thinking about “you have a crush on me?”, but it can also be understood as Hope lying doesn’t hurt her at all. If this is the case, then Hope = nothing in Josie’s heart, is this true though?)
74. Hope says that she would be there if Josie is to fall into her dark side again even though she believes that Josie is strong enough to withstand it herself. (It’s still manipulation even though Hope means it, right? Don’t want to romanticise manipulation.)
75. Hope guilt trip Josie about Landon and the prison world.
76. Hope thinks that she need more convincing work on Josie after the guilt trip. But Josie surprises her by not needing any further convincing. It seems that her concerns it’s never the danger she could face from the prison world for saving Landon. It’s about the risks of losing herself again by taking her magic back. Both of them don’t know that the ascendant is full of dark magic.
77. Hope tells Lizzie to hold on when they discover that the ascendant is filled with dark magic and according to Josie before that, “you’re going to die”.
78. Josie steps in for Hope and Lizzie.
79. Hope only realised and apologised when she sees Josie with dark magic and in pain. (It shows the importance of Josie in Hope’s heart, but I think it’s very late so……)
80. When Josie, Landon, Wade ran into the kitchen from Berbelang!Hope, Josie and perfect Landon are in sync in saving Hope. It either means Jandon is very very low-key still a thing, or Josie and perfect Landon actually cares as much as each other cares for Hope. (And perfect Landon is made to love Hope, so if Josie show as much care as perfect Landon for Hope....)
81. Again, why do I care? - Josie: “Because I do!”
82. Josie embrace her magic entirely for Hope and to save Hope.
83. If the definition of true love is like what Wade says, like Landon would never hurt Hope, then we can see Josie is reluctant to hurt Hope either. She wants to consider it carefully before really plunge the knife into Hope’s heart. (But perfect Landon did it, as an outsider I think we agree that’s actually the right call? It’s just too soon when you basically have an hour to think carefully, maybe Cleo can control perfect Landon, so when she got the chance she makes perfect Landon to do it?)
84. Hope apologises for pressuring Josie into taking back her magic twice. Josie give credits to Hope’s words of her and her magic. Hope is very happy for Josie.
85. Hope wants Josie back in the school. It means that she thinks Josie is belonged to the school as how Josie think of Hope previously.
To sum them up, we have 18/85 of Hosie interactions/scenes where they are disrespect of each other, undermining, manipulating, and lying to each other. However, as we can see mostly they are supportive of each other, having good communications, and saving each other’s lives.
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