#didnt give elain or gwyn a relationship | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

edanmaia · 10 months

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very intangible ideas for acotar 5 since cc3 will indefinitely flip everything around:

Despite no one wanting it (reader and rhys alike), rhys becomes high king

elriel secret romance. but how do they get together? maybe they start flirting in cc3 and really commit in acotar5. who knows, atp i dont see how the plot forces them together.

koschei looming, but he's for acotar 6

more eris cryptic riddle shit

mor/emerie relationship blooming? mor coming out at a weird time to the inner circle (...sarah giving her 13 pages in the middle of a war to come out the feyre is silly goofy)

nesta hopefully becoming a normal not sex-crazed character. can sjm un-butcher her from not her pov?

Who tf is the villain? the other 5 queens? the asteri? that was the problem with acosf. There was no villain and no story.

85% plot / 15% smut. please sarah

no butchering of azriel or elains character. i know we know nothing about them but she fucked up cassian so bad he's such an unlikable character after acosf. Please give azriel some personality and some tact 🙏🏻🙏🏻. i dont need to see his pining and yearning as 100% of his pov. i would like to see him and his intelligence. Same for elain, i want to see depth and not a caricature or someone who's only personality is gardening and trauma.

no training no training anything but training for elain. not even becoming a spy. just let elain be powerful in her soft femininity 🫶🏼

give elain the dusk court! i dont know the logistics but its hers.

i need a huge dramatic falling out between azriel and rhys. like a huge rift that takes a lot to repair. let azriel be able to trauma dump on rhys and be angry and have distance (i assume azriel doesnt wanna torture people anymore. and if rhys can read minds i dont understand why azriel has to torture info out of ppl anyways)

elain's independence. i don't necessarily care about her relationship w feyre and nesta. she told them she wasnt an object, and id like to see how that results because we didnt see shit in acosf

Story outside of elriel. It was so boring stuck in nesta and cassians "story" because we get nothing from the other characters and the only story was sex and being sad. 😑 no one wanted to read 600 pages of that

slow build up of story instead of randomly shoved in story (we know sjm cant do that but i can hope)

I wanna know about the history of seers!i want elain to be special ✨ like that

it would be awesome if lucien was happy and ready to be in a relationship with vassa or smth so we dont have to see him continue to be sad and lost when elain rejects him. I reallt cant deal with all the characters being sad all the fucking time sarah. But i just know he's gonna be so lost and so sad throughout the book, which leads him into his character arc for book 6. but imagine if elain and lucien both had their character arc in book 5. that would be awesome.

elain needs to move tf out of rhys and feyres house

retcon on the necklace. clotho never gave it to gwyn. i really cannot deal with that dumb ass storyline. + it was in a bonus chapter?? Is sarah gonna throw in a short line saying "az tried to give it to elain, they almost kissed, rhys forbade az from getting near elain, he gave it to clotho after he saw gwyn triajfnien etc etc"

I really dont want az to be like rhys, where yoy find out he's a great guy and 100% a hero. nothing gray about it.

i want azriel to be someone who tortures people, clearly doesnt like it and wants to stop, but has to for his brothers. and his story arc is ceasing to do things that bring him misery. Like, he did that. No question. and that's terrible. but he wants to become a better person and is working towards that.

sjm there's still time @sjmaas

#maia acotar

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romaisamaria · 3 years

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Now that has been months since the release of A Court of Silver Flames, I can safely put out my two cents that absolutely no one asked about.

I will start with things that I really enjoyed:

Nesta’s journey into self-healing, and more into accepting herself and the past mistakes she has made. I think SJM did a great job into describing her mental health journey and I loved loved loved every single bit of it. Did I cry when she broke down in the mountains? Yes, but dont tell anyone.

Nesta and Azriel friendship. That was something that I was manifesting into the universe and I was glad to see it become canon.

Nesta’s new circle of friends. I loved how she was immediately accepted by Gwyn and Emerie, how the three of them complement each other.

Nesta’s journey into becoming a Valkyrie and how she’s planning to one day lead a female unit.

Nesta’s saving baby Nyx and Feyre. That was an emotional crazy scene and I loved it. (However, I wished we had a scene where she was holding baby Nyx).

Eris. That’s it. I just love that he had a bigger role and I’m hoping to see more of him in the future.

I loved seeing Elain stand for herself. And I’m here to see her journey. (Note aside: I loved those little crumbs we got from Elriel)

The House of Wind.

Helion.

Now let’s get into things that I found lacking or absolutely unnecessary or I just simply hated. And oh boy, it might be a big list:

Cassian and Nesta’s relationship. Now, I shipped these two idiots since the moment Cassian showed up. I just vision them together (same with Elain and Azriel). I loved them in Acowar, and the bonus chapter but my god their relationship in Acosf was shit. The whole story. I hated every second of it. I’m gonna give Nesta a pass when it comes to her showing emotions because she’s a 24yrs woman who has been raised to be an Ice Queen, but Cassian!? A +500 warrior scared to ask if he can stay after sex to save his feelings? Naaaaaah that was pretty shit. And Nesta deserved more.

Dont get me wrong, I loved them training together, I loved them being protective over each other, I loved Cassian’s words in the mountains (on that punishing hike that I wont even comment)… but Cassian let me down in this book.

I was expecting a whole love speech coming out of his mouth that would make me cry for weeks. I was expecting him actually telling Nesta why he loves her, or at least a better mating revealing.

All we got was sex, sex, sex, sex, oh and did I mention sex already? It became so boring at one point that as soon as they went at it again, I just skipped the whole paragraph/chapter. (And yes, this is coming from a pretty dark romance reader).

Rhysand and the inner circle are the perfect people who can never do any wrong. I hated that we never had a conversation between Nesta and Feyre where they fixed their issues, or Nesta and Rhysand, or Nesta and Mor? Or Nesta and Elain!???

Nesta took dancing lessons with Mor for a month and yet we never had a scene between the two of them at least bonding? Or letting some shit out? I mean, the same Mor who at the beginning was “toss her to the Night Court, we dont need her here”. Couldnt we just have a scene of Mor regretting saying that? No, we just had Nesta apologising to everything and everyone for what?

Nesta’s and Amren relationship. What the fuck was that!? Nesta asking Amren for forgiveness on her knees. That rage me for days.

Nesta asking Cassian to forgive her because of how she behaved last Solstice and Cassian was like “oh no worries, I already forgave you”. Dafuq!? Excuse me sir, shouldn’t you also ask Nesta to forgive you because of what you said to her that night too!?

Nesta losing her powers. I get that she didnt want them, but considering she was in a journey to accept and love herself, I hated that she had to get rid of that part of her.

The whole “Rhysand you should be High King”. That shit better never fucking happen. That’s the weakest plot ever.

The Blood Rite was unnecessary. The stairs scenes were unnecessary.

The Illyrian rebels plotline that was so important in Acofas but somehow got all washed away in Acosf as if it was a fever dream.

We can all agree that sex was the main plot in this book and everything else was a background noise. Does anyone know anymore where the fuck is this serie going? Cause I dont. But will I still read the next books? Abso-fucking-lutely.

The fandom wars. The Nessian story was so fucking bad in Acosf… everyone needed to jump to a next ship. And who we got? Elucien? Who can’t stand to be in the same room? Elriel? Who are not allowed to be in the same room? Or Gwynriel? Who only exists because people hate Elain and they finally have someone else than Mor or Emerie to ship with Az? (And yes, I said what I said and you know is true).

Amren was a bitch in Acosf and I dont know why she keeps getting away with it. She has no powers now, someone better shut her up. Which is a shame cause I really liked her in Acowar.

Tamlin storyline. Leave the man alone. You got your happy ending, no need to rub it on his face every damn second.

Lucien and his band of exiles. Do we even know what the fuck is happening in that house they live?

In conclusion, Acosf was a 6/10. I think there were so so many opportunities to make those 800 pages memorable and all we got was sex, stairs, and more sex?

I get that the smutty scenes sell better, but not when the sex are just used as a refill. The reason why smutty scenes are so popular, is because they are the culmination of a well developed relationship. But if they’re starting as friends with benefits that turns into “ups, now we shackled together forever and I didnt even ask if that’s what you want but why dont you want it?”… you know it’s going to end up with a bad taste.

Anyway, as I said.. this is how I personally felt regarding Acosf. Everyone is entitled to their own feelings.

#acosf #a court of silver flames #acotar #nessian #nesta archeron #cassian acotar #elriel #elain archeron #azriel shadowsinger #feysand #feyre acheron #rhysand acotar #lucien vanserra #eris vanserra #acomaf #acowar #acofas #a court of thorns and roses #cassian x nesta

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hacawijo · 3 years

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Azriel never said he was entitled to/deserved to be with Elain, those were Rhys’s words. Azriel said it didn’t make sense for two of the brothers to be with two of the sisters and not the third. Obviously it’s not the healthiest reasoning, but I think he’s reasoning in order to explain his strong feelings for Elain and to make sense of the powerlessness and envy he feels. Imagine pining after someone mostly unavailable and ultimately uninterested in you for 500 years, then finally finding someone else who makes you feel a lot of things and gets you better than maybe anyone else AND who is into you just as much as you are into them (he smells her arousal folks, Elain is super into Azriel and has been forever - literally fight me, I will give you receipts) and then to be forced to watch that person be essentially claimed, against their own preference, by someone else. Also, since when is it not absolutely certain that a fantasy romance ship is happening when someone expressly forbids it for political reasons??? That is such a classic trope!!

Azriel can’t catch a fucking break. How could you not have all of those feelings and then feel like fate screwed you when that person’s two sisters are destined for your two brothers? It’s a rationalization ADDED ON to the feelings he already has for Elain, he doesn’t have feelings for Elain because he thinks he’s entitled to her, he hopes that fate is showing him that his feelings are not in vain (AGAIN).

SJM herself said that she’s sprinkled breadcrumbs about Azriel’s story for a long time, which also makes me think Gwyn isn’t endgame because she’s such a new character. The moment between them in the bonus chapter actually reminds me a lot of Cassian’s moment with Emerie in ACOFAS. A lot of people predicted that he might be torn between her and nesta, but really it was just a way to flesh out that character outside of Nesta’s narrative. It seems more like SJM is trying to incorporate Gwyn into larger parts of the story and as more than just nesta’s friend. Perhaps what we need to glean from his interactions with Gwyn are the things Azriel values, and the personal growth he might go through, in a vocational sense, in the next book.

It makes him happy to make Gwyn happy because he ultimately cares very strongly for people who have suffered and survived and thrived. Cassian cares about what happens to the illyrians, Azriel doesn’t - the Valkyrie (to an extent) and the illyrians are Cassian’s mission, Azriel doesn’t have anything like that, yet. Azriel doesn’t like the violent things he does for the court, and that is probably part of why he feels so unfulfilled and lost. The most valuable things he has done have been the type of thing he did in saving Gwyn at Sangravah and training the priestesses with Cassian. This is all rooted, of course, in the suffering he witnessed his mother go through. All three of the illyrians are defined by the violence and wrongs done to their mothers, and two of them have found ways to make relative peace with those wrongs. Azriel has begun to and has done much to help wronged women and children and people, but I don’t think he’s had his Aha! Moment yet in the way that Rhys and Cassian have. His interaction with Clotho feels like an indication of his greater purpose, an alternative concern to his romantic woes re: Elain.

I’m not saying this means that Gwyn ISNT involved in a romantic way in the next book, but I think it’s hasty to assume it’s romantic just because Azriel has a meaningful, connected moment with her. Think about Manon and Elide or Feyre and Lucien, two friendships that bridged a lot of characters together and that could have gone in a romantic direction but didn’t. She tends to do that more with friendships than romantic relationships I think. I also think there was a clearer indication of Emerie’s interest in Mor than Gwyn’s in Azriel (I know there’s more interaction between Azriel and Gwyn, but Emerie is clearly into Mor when she says she doesn’t come around Windhaven anymore), and it seems almost as tidy to have Azriel and Mor end up with the other two Valkyries as for Azriel to end up with the third sister. Azriel, Mor, and Cassian are very nearly as much a sacred trio as the Illyrians. Also, I think it’s more likely that Mor will end up with Emerie because she hasn’t had a real romantic interest be yet revealed (the only thing I can think of is Viviane’s younger sister, but that was also superrrrrrrrrr subtle and I might have read too far into the text) and SJM pretty much never decides to start those in the course of one book (of which this extra Azriel POV chapter would be a part).

I also just want to say that Elain has been consistently uncomfortable with Lucien. He gets her the gloves for solstice, and it’s because he has a fundamental misunderstanding of her as a person. He sees her as something delicate to be sheltered and protected from thorns and elements, but that’s actually one of the things Elain loves most about gardening, and is probably how she wishes she could live her life if given the freedom and confidence. In the Feysand chapter, Feyre specifically mentions the gloves that Lucien got Elain and the consequences of Elain not wearing them. On the surface it seems silly because she hurt herself, using the gloves makes total sense, but Rhys and Feyre are actually talking about Elain as someone who is growing and who actually likes to get dirty and FEEL things. It would make COMPLETE sense for Elain to be with Lucien, he’s her mate and he’s courtly and traditional (for a high fey, anyway) and it would be very politically tidy. But maybe this new, changed Elain just doesn’t want that anymore. Maybe she thinks Azriel’s scarred hands are beautiful because they’re nothing other than what they are, and she’s not afraid of having her own scars (I.e. the thorns).

I don’t know for sure that it’s a great sign that Azriel got Elain jewelry. That could be an indication that he sees her beauty and delicacy similarly to the way Lucien does, and certainly he is protective of Elain. BUT think it could mean something different because it was juxtaposed with the pearl earrings that Lucien gave Elain. They were plain, we’ve never had any indication that Elain is interested in pearls or even regular jewelry. SJM OBVIOUSLY put much more thought into the description of the necklace and AZRIEL OBVIOUSLY put much more thought into his gift for Elain than Lucien did. He thought about Elain and what she means to him and gave her something that appears gently beautiful and informal but is even more lovely when someone PAYS CLOSER ATTENTION TO IT, as Azriel always does with everything, and especially Elain.

just can’t imagine SJM having anything that is awkward and at best uncomfortable and uncommunicative turn into an endgame relationship. Elain and lucien have no passion, neither sexual nor antagonistic nor romantic. All of her relationships tend to involve a pretty instant attraction and ongoing tension with tiny little moments sprinkled in from the get. Elain is only ever uncomfortable around Lucien. On the other hand, she is innately comfortable with Azriel pretty immediately (again ask for receipts and I will give them).

They also meet each other pre-cauldron, Lucien is literally like, “she’s my mate!” During one of the most traumatic and dissonant moments of Elain’s life. Remember how much Rhys DIDNT MAKE FEYRE’S LIFE OR TRAUMA ABOUT HIM???? He waited FOREVER to tell her about the bond, was pretty certain he could never be with her, would have been happy to never tell her and just have her be happy. Cassian was pretty sure of the bond with nesta and did not come close to mentioning it until they declared themselves together forever. Rowan and Aelin were also terrified to admit to each other that they were mates, again because they worried what it might do to negatively affect the other. But there’s Elain, fresh outta the cauldron, they all heard her screams and saw her terror and despair, and the first thing he says is “she’s MY mate.”

Also want to be clear I’m not trying to hate on Lucien. I mentioned above that Lucien is used to being pretty courtly and traditional, I think he was raised in the autumn court and has a very traditional understanding of what the mating bond means. I don’t think he is ever trying to claim Elain because he’s inherently trying to ignore her wishes or control her, but because he feels that bond and believes in the fact that it is sacred. Elain was born human, doesn’t really understand the significance of mates the way Lucien does. Of course she wouldn’t have a matching reverence. Elain is used to love and building trust and a relationship with someone over time and with patience. Which is exactly how her relationship with Az progresses.

Really think about Elain and Lucien, what about them seems compatible? He plays the game, he’s clever, his specialty is in people and he likes to have repartee with those he’s close to. Elain is pretty much always herself, she doesn’t change to suit her company, and she frankly doesn’t seem to love figuring people out. She loves being with the people she loves, but the politics of people don’t interest her - nature interests her. She’s kind in a way that Lucien would probably probably find boring in someone who isn’t his mate. In ACOSF, nesta is constantly thinking about the difference in her relationship with her mother from the relationships her mother had with her sisters. She makes it really clear that Elain never knew how to handle people in the same way as nesta or any courtier, and that she wasn’t really all that interested in intrigue or politic (which is why their mother was never interested in Elain). Elain and Lucien do not understand each other and do not understand the other’s passions or motivations. I like Lucien, I don’t love him the way that some folks do, probably because I never really got over his failure to feyre in ACOMAF, but I do want him to be happy. I think he can’t give Elain what she wants or needs and vice versa.

Lastly I want to talk about symmetry and fresh narrative. At this point, mating bonds are pretty played out. SJM has set a lot of groundwork re: the fact that mating bonds are NOT always perfect, and are NOT always happy. Rhys talks a lot about his mother and father. They were very unhappy together; they did not understand each other. It sounds like Rhys’s father was a politician and Rhys’s mother was wild and raw and genuine. This is part of the reason he waits so long to tell Feyre about the bond (and obviously he doesn’t even get to tell her, she finds out on her own). I am definitely not trying to say that Lucien is like Rhys’s father, he’s not, he’s a much better person, but I do think that the differences in Rhys’s parents’ values and passions mirror the dissonance that can be felt between Lucien and Elain as well. I think all of the wind was taken out of the relationship before it started because Lucien named Elain as his mate so quickly- it was really unearned. It is so EARNED in Feyre and Rhys’s story and Aelin and Rowan’s.

I think the idea of choosing love over nature is actually extraordinary. Elain, who has never really had a choice in her whole life, will make the most subversive and difficult choice of the series by rejecting her mating bond. And Azriel, who has never believed himself worthy of good things, will be chosen over a mating bond because he is so extraordinarily deserving of happiness and love and to be truly chosen as someone else’s paramour even beyond the influence of a mating bond. Is there any greater narrative validation of Azriel than that???? SJM writes grand, dramatic cosmic payback for her characters, and this would be a crowning achievement in that vein.

As for Lucien, what he has needed is a way out of the lines he’s always been expected to live in. He was never at home in the autumn court, he was never truly at home in the spring court, and despite Elain, he is definitely never at home in the night court. Lucien’s love, the thing that made him more happy than anything else in his life, was inherently unconventional, and then the convention he lived in destroyed it. Letting go of Elain and the mating bond will be the best way for him to reject the rules that have confined him for his entire, mostly miserable life. Elain will choose Azriel, and Lucien will choose to let her go, not just for Elain but also for himself. I’m willing to bet he might even give up his immortal life to be with Vassa and Jurian. Obviously that whole trio’s dynamic is still pretty murky, but I THINK he seems to be into Vassa (hell who knows - maybe he’s into jurian). Certainly he is happier with them than he has ever been anywhere else (tamlin was Lucien’s dear friend, but Lucien was also fucking terrified of him), and maybe it’s not and will never be about romantic fulfillment for him. That being said, that seems unlikely given SJM’s tendency to pair off her characters.

As for people being mad about the sex stuff...... have we not been reading the same books? Cassian and Rhys have both made it clear to Feyre that Az can get it, he hasn’t been chastely pining for Mor his whole life. Nesta also specifically confirms in this newest installment that Elain is not a virgin, hello bread crumb set up. Elain and Azriel are both sexually active adults who are sexually attracted to each other. Why should they not be able to have agency over their own sexuality in the same way as all of the other characters? Because they’re shy? Because they seem nicer and gentler?

I think it’s actually really infantilizing to make Elain a victim/inactive participant in her solstice interaction with Azriel. Sure, narrators aren’t always reliable, but SJM always uses the fey scent as a story device to confirm sexual interest and initial/general consent for the reader without suspicion or misinterpretation. I. E. Nesta and cassian both had really warped understandings of how the other felt about them for a lot of ACOSF, but they always came back to knowing for certain that they were sexually attracted to each other. That is something that SJM makes pretty freakin clear in most situations. I don’t think that Azriel thought anything that was darker or dirtier than anything Rhys or cassian has thought about feyre and nesta. In fact it was definitely less kinky than how cassian and nesta often thought of each other sexually before they really got together.

Also, a lot of elain’s reactions to Lucien in ACOWAR remind me of mor’s reactions to Azriel throughout the series. You could tell she was feeling some type of way, but in reality it was guilt and sorrow that she couldn’t return his feelings, not that she was tortured by her love for him. I feel like when Lucien goes to the continent and Elain displays emotion about it it’s more about the fact that she feels bad she doesn’t feel more for him even though she does feel the bond. I’m sure it was really confusing for her. Elain’s reactions to Azriel, though, remind me more of the little snippets of interaction between Aedion and Lysandra before they had more POV in the ToG series and also those between cassian and nesta in ACOMAF and ACOWAR before THEY had POV chapters.

Wow so yeah here’s my dissertation. I hope someone out there reads this and is like YES THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN TRYING TO SAY, because I love when I find posts like that.

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nikethestatue · 2 years

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just saw a post that apparently az gave up on mor for g**n. as if sarah didnt scream at us in acosf that its because of elain💀

Yep, I saw it and there are a lot of incorrect assumptions and information in it.

Firstly, Azriel actually met Gwyn FIRST, before he ever met Elain. The attack on Sangravah was before they went to the sisters. So if he was so taken with her (of mated! more about that later) Elain wouldn't have happened at all.

The argument of why he 'didn't fall in love' with Elain quicker--he met her in approximately February and she was turned about May-June. She was a human woman, also engaged, so I don't know how he would've gone about falling in love with her (having seen her, we assume once). I believe the war was in September. By the time the war rolled around, he was willing to risk his life for Elain in Hybern. Prior to that, he went along with Rhys AGAINST Mor and did not discourage Rhys from engaging both Kier and Eris in his plans.

Within about 2.5-3 months (putting aside Elain's near-catatonic state for over a month, and his own recovery after being shot in the chest) Azriel is so smitten with her, he flies to Hybern to save her with no care about himself AND his court/Rhys, knowing that his absence and potential death may lead to losing the war entirely AND then gives her TT.

By the time the first Solstice rolls around (3 months after the war), we know that he is avoiding any spying on her/Lucien, he is worried about getting her a gift for Solstice, and during Solstice it becomes evident that both of them are very much into each other. (Read the entire ACOMAF) Mor and Azriel are not mentioned even then as a 'couple'.

In the POV, he HIMSELF says to us that he's been avoiding Elain for a year, since he is beside himself with want, like, love, lust, whatever. He can't help himself and gets her a gift, which he doesn't give her in front of anyone else. He certainly gives Mor his gift in front of everyone. He doesn't give a gift to Gwyn.

Addressing the whole mate nonsense. Mated men do not masturbate to and think about other women, when they are mated. They don't attempt to pursue other women. They don't think about having sex with other women. We know that men are aware of mate bonds before women (Rhys, Cassian, Lucien) regardless of acceptance or 'snapping'. If Gwyn was his mate, he would've known pretty much right away, back in Sangravah. He also wouldn't have been able to live for a year at the House of Wind (while avoiding another woman wtf), while his 'mate' lived in the same building, and not seek her out. It's essentially biologically impossible. (Think Lucien and how he and Elain were, btw, IN THE SAME HoW and the IC were taking bets on how long it would take him to seek her out. Same with Cassian and Nesta--took him actually no time at all) And even if Azriel had some monumental self-control over himself which is off the charts, he certainly would be snarling more at Cassian when he trained Gwyn. And...oh, yeah, NOT FANTASIZE ABOUT ELAIN for a year and have no other relationships. And avoid any mention of Mor.

Love Interest vs Nesta's friend and maybe a mentee. That's the difference between the two relationships.

#elriel #pro elriel #that's not how it works #that's not how any of it works #elain archeron #azriel and elain #elain x azriel

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