#circ talks

[circumference-pie]

#circ talks

[himboblackdragon]

Okay I did it

Inspiration here

#cang lan jue #love between fairy and devil #lbfad #dongfang qingcang #xiao lanhua #lbfad shitpost #I did this in gimp because I don't have photoshop on this computer T_T #circ talks #circ gifs

[deducingcircumference]

AO3 analysis [May 2022, English]

Back in May I scraped a bunch of Detective Conan metadata off of AO3 and did some data analysis!

I used English-language works only. There were a total of 5,945 works included.

Important caveat: This analysis does not include fics that are locked to logged-in AO3 users only. For example, Curiosity Made the Cat is very popular, but wasn't included in these numbers.

Another caveat: This doesn't include the 50 or so fics that were Magic-Kaito-only, at the time of scraping.

The following graphics all have image descriptions. Please hover or tap to see them.

Works over time

First, total number of DetCo works on AO3, over time!

Big acceleration around 2016. I'll let more informed minds speculate as to why.

Characters

Next, let's look at some per-character statistics. Here are the number of AO3 works the top 10 characters appear in.

As is probably appropriate for the main character, Shinichi/Conan is in 75% of fics. Kaito, who isn't even part of the regular cast, comes in at #2 with in 3,000 works.

And here are the number of ships they appear in.

Shinichi has probably been shipped with the entire cast at this point, including himself.

Creators

Some authors write a lot. The most prolific by number of Detective Conan works posted to AO3 are:

And by total number of words posted across all Detective Conan works on AO3:

Some authors write for a large variety of relationships, too.

Kudos per hit

Want to know what brings in kudos (and probably Kudous)?

Note: The following graphs are density estimates using R's ggplot's default parameters.

Caveat: Works with very high kudos/hits ratios, but low hits and all guest kudos were excluded, as their statistics are probably the result of bot activity.

The following graphs are all kernel density estimates, essentially smoothed versions of a histogram, scaled so the area under the curve equals 1. If you don't know what that means, right equals more kudos per hit, and left equals fewer.

First, how rating affects the kudos-to-hits ratio.

The more family-friendly a work is, the more kudos per hit it's likely to see.

Here are kudos over hits, broken down by the top four Detective Conan ships on AO3.

Caveat: Only single-ship works were included.

And here it a similar visualization, broken down by M/M, F/F, or F/M.

Caveat: Only single-category works were included.

Additional tags

And for fun, a word cloud of the 100 most common tags in the "additional tags" field.

FLUFF!

Keep in mind that the largest tag, "Fluff," only represents 793 fics out of 6,000. For other reference points, "Angst," represents 487 fics and "Aged-up Characters" represents 62.

(If you saw a different version of this graphic on Discord, with Angst as the largest tag, I fixed a bug. Fluff is biggest :D)

Other notes

FFN version is here <3.

I used a lightly modified version of Radiolarian's AO3 Scraper to pull data off of AO3, Python to canonicalize tags and do some CSV reformatting, and R to generate the graphs.

Please ask me if you want to see the data or code.

An earlier version of this post mistakenly stated that Shinichi is in 5,000 fics. He was in just under 4,500, in May.

An earlier version of this post mistakenly stated that the rate of new fics was 50 fics per day in 2016. It was 50 fics per month.

An earlier version used “Curiosity Killed the Cat” as an example of a locked fic; the actual name of the fic is “Curiosity Made the Cat.”

#circ talks #circ computes #detective conan #dcmk #data analysis #reposting because tumblr didn't let the previous one into the tags #T_T

[hyprfxtdbstrd]

I'm seeing everyone pointing out the possible issues with Epic the Musical's deviation from the original story of Circe and Odysseus, and as someone who's studied Ancient Greece/ancient Greek myths a bit, I wanted to say some stuff about it. This will be a bit of a long one, so apologies for my rambling!

Note that I'm not trying to shit on SA survivor's perspectives and (completely valid) arguments. I'm just trying to offer some context surrounding the original myth and how it fits (or rather, doesn't fit) with a modern audience. If I'm wrong with any of this, feel free to call me out! Criticize the shit out of me! I like learning about Greek culture and myths and would 100% love to hear other perspectives on this.

So, a few points about Ancient Greek myths to kind of explain the context around Circe and Odysseus:

Greek myths generally did not have good views/depictions of women. Women were almost always depicted as conniving, selfish, sexually insatiable creatures. To largely summarize the process within actual Greek society, women had three/four stages in their life: child, dangerous/wild virgin (after first menstruation), married woman (whose wildness was tamed by her husband), and then a "real" woman (a mother). There are a few deviations from the "evil" trope, the most prominent of which being Penelope herself—she's basically the ideal Greek wife, staying loyal to her husband for 20 years and all that.

Adultery only applied to women. Husbands cheating on their wives wasn't merely tolerated, but expected. Marital sex wasn't seen as enjoyable, rather something that had to be done for the sake of reproduction and continuing the bloodline/securing inheritance. Men cheated on their wives with various kinds of prostitutes, concubines, mistresses, etc, but sleeping with unmarried women (that weren't specifically prostitutes) or married women was looked down upon. Women didn't have this same standard. They could only sleep with their husbands, hell, their husbands were pretty much the only men they could even interact with (excluding family, obviously).

The original myth has Hermes very plainly lay out how Odysseus' confrontation with Circe will go: Odysseus will eat the moly, draw his sword at her, she'll proposition him, and Hermes directly tells Odysseus to accept. Basically a "sleep with her if you want your men to live" situation. (See this post for more specifics on this).

So, let's apply this to Epic: The Musical. Here's some reasons I think may explain the Circe myth being changed:

The Greek "women being evil" stereotype is... problematic. While I 100% understand that it's important to acknowledge male victims of SA, I don't think the original myth was focusing on Odysseus being a victim—I saw it more of an emphasis on Circe being a sexually selfish woman, as all Greek women were believed to be. Changing Circe to be less conniving and evil deviates from the concerning Greek stereotype.

The SA in the myth is not actually very clearly SA. Yes, with a modern perspective, it absolutely is sexual coercion, but for Greeks, not so much. It made sense to them that sex could be transactional. It's already been established that Epic, while still generally accurate to the original myth, does change things relating to morality/themes in order to better align with modern Western ideas (i.e. OG Odysseus not being as remorseful and merciful, as that was expected of a Greek hero, but Epic Odysseus having more empathy because that's more modernly heroic). If something from the original myth doesn't translate well into modern culture, then it's understandable to want to change or omit it.

In the case that the original Circe myth wasn't SA (I'm not saying one is more right than the other, I'm just covering all the bases), then it wouldn't even constitute as cheating. Like I described earlier, it was perfectly acceptable and expected for men to sleep with women that weren't their wives. Plus, being a goddess, she's already kinda exempt from being blamed if Odysseus slept with her—only women are ever really blamed for sleeping with (or being SAed by) gods, and even then, their husbands sometimes don't even give a shit. But modernly, we would not see it that way. To us, it's not societally acceptable for a married man to sleep with another woman (without his wife's consent, at least). While Ancient Greeks viewed Odysseus as a good (or at least okay) husband, a modern audience wouldn't. Making Odysseus loyal to Penelope and not sleeping with other women (assuming this wasn't SA, but again that's one interpretation) makes him the good, loyal, empathic, modernly heroic man that Epic is clearly aiming for. Repeating my last point: If something from the original myth doesn't translate well into modern culture, then it's understandable to want to change or omit it.

Applying modern perspectives on Ancient Greek society and mythology isn't worth it. Like, we all joke about Ancient Greece being super gay, but they didn't actually like gay men. Homosexuality was literally only acceptable when it was between a young man and a prepubescent boy (it was called pederasty if you want to know more) or between women (they only considered penetrative sex to be 'real' sex so they didn't really care what women did with other women). Y'know the Hades and Persephone story? Like, the original one with the kidnapping? Yeah, that was normal. The myth of Demeter and Persephone is tragic, yes, but it was so normal that wedding ceremonies often included references/recreations of it! Girls got married off ASAP after their first menstruation to men of at least 30 years old. We don't tolerate that shit today (for the most part, at least)! But it was normal in Ancient Greece. Applying modern rules and standards to ancient culture just does not work.

Anyways, I'll shut up now! I'm gonna go keep listening to The Circe Saga lmao

EDIT: there is good criticism in the reblogs of this post that adds more perspective and corrects some of my generalizations/insights!!

#can you tell im a history major #seriously tho im not trying to shit on the opinions of SA survivors talking about this #the greeks were just kinda fucked up #greek mythology #epic the musical #odysseus #the odyssey #circe #circe saga #the circe saga #hermes #epic the circe saga #ancient greece #history

[gigizetz]

Little comic based on a dialogue from the book Circe

#I love how when people talk about their favorite quotes from this book it's always the most deep ones #and mine is just this #circe #circe goddess #hermes #hermes god #circe book #madeline miller #greek mythology #digital art #doodle #epic: the musical #epic the musical

[eyeinthemirror]

“Okay. Fine. Yes. But REGARDLESS-“

Haha Odysseus, never change.

#epic the musical #jorge rivera herrans #the circe saga #circe saga #greek mythology #the odyssey #odyssey #odysseus #circe #CIRCE! WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT CIRCE #Hermes gave it to you didn’he? #I’ve got people to protect #friends I can’t neglect #✨✨✨

[anniflamma]

Finally, I have started the clean-up process! I'm almost done with all of Circe's solo shots. I'm saving the part where she is stroking the sword for later use......

#I am still talking about a regular sword #tw slight nudity #epic the musical #epic the circe saga #circe #animatic work in progress

[dootznbootz]

"But in TSOA, they do this-"

"But in Circe, they do that-"

#emphasis on “empty” #I'm so mean. I'm so sorry but I saw this and HAD to #read the actual “coconut” and get background info on shit before you talk. You can enjoy these as long as you know it's not the real #thing!!! #anti circe #anti tsoa #anti madeline miller #tagamemnon #leave Odysseus. Helen. Thetis. Agamemnon. Hermes. and Helios ALONE!!! #Mad rambles #shot by odysseus

[thunderjackal]

things i love about epic the musical that make me laugh or cry (or both) so far

Eurylochus: 'Captain we're literally starving what do we do'

Odysseus: 'wow those are some cool birds'

Athena's piano leitmotif

Athena singing the lyrics 'Warrior of the mind' in one continuous tone at the begining, Odysseus joining in with a staggered tone, then both sing in that staggered tone

Athena returning to that continuous tone when singing 'This is my goodbye'

'We're gonna shoot for the sky' 'What???'

Poseidon. thats it, just his existence

Athena's leitmotif playing when Poseidon sings 'So close your heart, The world is dark and ruthlessness is mercy'

'A woman' 'What???'

'All i did was reveal their true forms' '... you turned them into pigs' 'lOL'

Odysseus's dead crew chanting 'Why would you let the cyclops live?'

'I see your palace covered in red, Faces of men who had long believed you're dead, I see you're wife with a man who is haunting, A man with a trail of bodies' <- actual chills I cant even describe how this part makes me feel

Odysseus screaming ' W H O ? '

#epic the musical #epic the troy saga #epic the cyclops saga #epic the ocean saga #epic the circe saga #epic the underworld saga #epic act 1 #TJ talks #i really like this musical guys #the composition and the music and OOHH I LOVE IT #i wish i knew more about making music so i could decipher all the small meanings in it

[circumference-pie]

Out of context WIPs game

Rules: Pick a bunch of your WIPs and summarize them as badly as possible, then ask your followers to vote on which one they’d be most likely to read. Multiple/all/none options are completely optional.

@thebansacredbanned tagged me!

Gonna tag @harocat, @blenderfullasarcasm, @birdmenmanga, @intyalote, and @indelibleme

#this was really fun! #thanks for the tag #circ talks

[himboblackdragon]

Something that bothers me about CLJ

is that Changheng falling for XLH just isn’t convincing to me. It’s more of an idea I accept because the script told me “this is here now.”

Changheng meets XLH in the forest, she bandages one of his wounds charmingly ineffectually, they proceed to have a “having a good time” montage in which XLH says in voiceover that she’ll protect him, and by the next flashback where he leaves, he’s showing all the symptoms of attachment. And then he spends the next five hundred years pining from a distance.

I’m probably just unromantic, but afterward I’m always thinking, “Why??” There was nothing in the montage that made it clear he was falling, and while I can infer that he’s touched by the offer to protect him, there’s nothing in his reaction that makes me believe that was the turning point. It was just…some talking, and then he’s saying goodbye very reluctantly.

And Danyin exists. And while I don’t ship her with Changheng, he does witness her actually taking steps to protect him, and isn’t moved in her direction. I get that he’s already obsessed with XLH, but Changheng’s lack of response to Danyin’s actions erodes my belief that the thing he latched onto with XLH was her promise to protect him and her ability to see him as a person and not a station.

But actually it’s okay, because XLH’s relationship with Changheng isn’t the core of the show — far from it — and Changheng early on is more of a prop than a character, and I can see the need to establish his position quickly. It just feels more and more like something I’m suspending disbelief for with every rewatch.

#circ talks #it doesn’t actually bother me #it’s more like a tooth i keep voluntarily worrying at #changhengposting #love between fairy and devil

[deducingcircumference]

... Rapunzel ShinRan, you say?

Uhhhm. This came out of a dream I had. Royalty AU where Shinichi's a crown prince on the brink of being engaged for political reasons, and Ran's a maid newly assigned in his vicinity.

He falls head-over-heels immediately (I am incapable of writing them meeting in any universe and Shinichi not having that reaction).

Anyway I'm skipping a lot of stuff, but Shinichi's father tells him he's making an obvious fool of himself and the kingdom, and to just "exercise his privilege" discreetly, which he of course refuses to do, so the king spirits Ran away in the middle of the night and gives her to a witch to be locked up in a tower. Yadda yadda, Shinichi teams up with Kogoro to save her, and it's hilarious.

Anyway, they succeed! But Shinichi is blinded (or cursed some other way) in the process. It sucks, but he's able to have a Moment with Ran post-rescue. But they've let their guard down, and the soldiers that have been looking for Shinichi since he ran off nab him.

Shinichi's father is furious that his son is injured so, and the kingdom he's been bethrothed threatens to withdraw the alliance. The king locks him up and at the same time issues an announcement that whoever can heal the prince gets a big reward.

Well, it turns out that Kogoro, because of his travels with Shinichi, knows the answer to healing him! Ran weasels the answer out of him and fights her way to the key. She disguises herself to get into the palace, demands a favor as a reward if she can heal Shinichi, heals him, and claims her reward, a title and a place in court, which puts him in a great position to marry him.

The king recognizes the value in having his son married to what is now a politically powerful folk hero family, finds a way to dissolve the previous engagement, and grants the prince his wish.

#shinran #dcmk #circ talks #if anyone would like to turn this into an actual fic #feel free #all i have is notes #1700 words of notes

[wolfythewitch]

Do you think that Odysseus is a victim of SA?

I personally do, especially at the hands of Calypso.

Poor guy. Just wants to see his wife and son. He's a lil bitch but I love him

Yeah I think he's a victim of rape. Kept unwillingly on Calypso's island and forced to sleep with her? Dude is by no means a perfect guy but the morality of a character doesn't erase the trauma they experience

#wolfy tedtalks #anon #this can go for a number of people tbh #rape tw #for Circe its a bit more dubious #i saw a post once talking about it being more transactional #that was an interesting read

[arataka-reigen]

Isnt it beautiful that being such a wife guy was what saved Odysseus from Circe

#epic the musical #odysseus #circe #the odyssey #gi talks

[firesofdainix]

Why do people who make content about Penelope and Clytemnestra (especially when it comes to feminist revision) intentionally omit the fact that Odysseus tried so hard to prevent being away from her and Telemachus (unwilling participant of the war) and Agamemnon being sad and angry about sacrificing Iphigenia (literally TOLD by Artemis to sacrifice her)?

#chel babbles #tagamemnon #odysseus #agamemnon #clytemnestra #penelope #like come on. if you want to criticize their husbands at least talk about odysseus numerous infidelities with circe and calypso #or Agamemnon halting the war because he wants a bride prize #not the details where it's EXPLICITLY stated they regret #also yeah i believe artemis asking agamemnon to sacrifice his daughter is entirely accurate to her mythological depiction 👍 #do they not remember that odysseus pretended to be insane to get out of the war or

[imgoingtofreakoutnow]

Jorge Rivera-Herrans truly said "you guys need not worry about the struggles of being alone/single at Christmas and Valentine's Day, you'll have too much of an emotional damage to even remember that"

#epic the musical #epic the ocean saga #epic the circe saga #I AM SO EXCITED!!!!!! #annie talks #epic: the musical