#and rather than face it he just creates My Apprentice: The Guy Super Fucked Up About People Dying

[stinkythehutt]

also. something about palpatine being so adept at seeing into the future that all of his successes feel completely joyless by the time he achieves them because he’s just going through the motions… how fucked up and nihilistic and brutal that would make you…

#teddy talks #anakin is like the opposite of this bc he’s tortured by his future failures #so he lives in constant terror and denial #whereas palpatine is lowkey tortured in a different way though he’d never ever label it as such #but the boredom of it all. the inescapability… #in a sense of course you would long for ultimate power over the force. because you would feel so much just like a meaningless vehicle #of its will otherwise #and anakin would be a PERFECT toy for someone like that. because he is so bewildered. he’s easy to tangle up in knots #i’m just doing some character Thinking #but yeah. of course one in palpatines position might hate the force and feel a need to lash out and dominate it #and he manages his own repressed bewilderment by manufacturing it in anakin to an extreme degree #but. importantly. while also having complete control over the machinations of anakin’s experience #and by crushing the force and all knowledge of it #CHRIST i’m back sorry but all the stuff he does to extend his life. he obviously is terrified of death #and rather than face it he just creates My Apprentice: The Guy Super Fucked Up About People Dying #to punish somebody else for his own horror…. it’s giving projective identification. not to bring freud into this

[tornhoodie]

TLJ spoilers, don’t read this bit if you ain’t seen it

Italics is the thing I’m responding to. Bold is me.

Expectations in film can be strange. Most audiences love to know what to expect when coming into a film, familiarity is comforting and helps us escape. Subverting expectations can help surprise us and transcend the movie experience into something more substantial than an escape, maybe into something great. Unfortunately, The Last Jedi fails in this regard. It does subvert audience expectations, but the price the film pays is not worth it’s price. The things set up in The Force awakens are thrown aside for something surprising, and it succeeds in this, but the story and film are not stronger for it.

*** I can't agree that the mysteries set up were "thrown aside" for something surprising. All reports indicate (including direct from Johnson) that this WAS what was planned, in concert with Abrams and the Story Group. They just weren't resolved in the usual Star Wars fashion. ***

Luke Skywalker’s character is turned on his head. The film starts with Luke throwing his beloved lightsaber off a cliff, which shocked everyone in the theatre. He is an eternal optimist in return of the jedi, even succeeding in turning his father from the dark to the light. Where others gave up on Vader, Luke remained hopeful. Luke remained true. Given all of this, we are supposed to believe that he almost kills one of his own students because he sees the dark has overtaken him? Surely not more than Darth Vader, surely not more than the absolute darkest version of a human being (seriously, the imagery of darth vader is just brilliant). Luke’s failure and reason for his exile does not align with his character at all, making his behavior shocking and surprising, but not interesting. Now that Luke is dead, we won’t get to see him return to the Luke we once knew. There is an argument here that this film is about failure, about coming to grips with and tackling failure to see the good failure brings. Luke should be allowed to fail, but not in a way that contradicts his every thought and move from other films. His greatest failure could have been many things, but almost killing a student doesn’t work.

*** BUT YOOOOOOOOOOO. Let's break this down.

-That Luke would fail Ben and retreat into seclusion is SO CHOICE AND ALSO COMPLETELY EXPECTED. Look at his mentors! Obi-Wan failed Anakin, and went into hiding on Tatooine. Yoda escaped Coruscant and hid on Dagobah. Luke had BARELY any training, only a few books, and a sister strong in the Force. And he was just supposed to train a dozen Force-sensitives including the grandson of Darth Fucken Vader and have it turn out okay? Hell no! He was terrified! Consider everything on his plate, and then consider the three versions of events we get. They all converge to one thing: Ben was becoming tainted, Luke knew it, and Luke was scared. Here's the extra wrinkle to this story though, that takes it away from being just like Luke and Vader: Luke was the old man now, the teacher. And he had historical precedent for how these things went. He knew what would happen if he failed, and his apprentice fell to the dark side. It would be Vader all over again. His fear took control of him, and he acted, and Ben saw this fear take control, and he reacted. Luke was afraid of becoming Obi-Wan, and he let the dark side guide his actions, and he BECAME OBI-WAN. It absolutely totally makes sense within the context of who Luke's mentors were.

-This movie is aaaaaaaaaabsolutely about failure and what we do in the face of it. This was Luke's failure. It is possibly the biggest failure he could have had, and boy howdy he brought it about.

-I mean if there's one last thing that'll cement this its that this old hermit gets a swift kick in the junk by R2-D2 playing Leia pleading for his help. The same message that got Obi-Wan back in the fight.

-and then and then that fear hasn't gone away! He continues to resist training Rey, and eventually tries to burn the Jedi books and end it all, because he's still terrified of failing another student and creating another Vader/Ren. It is only through Yoda coming back and blasting apart the tree that he wakes up and realizes "hey, you know what, maybe its time to clean up my mess." Failure, and what we do in the face of it. ***

Snoke is now dead, and we know nothing about him. His death had an impact on me. I involuntarily put my hand in front of my mouth at his death, shocked at what had just happened. However, his serves no purpose other than to subvert expectations, not to serve a better story. We know nothing about Snoke, we know nothing about how he came to lead the first order, we know nothing about his haggard appearance, and so many great possibilities died with that character. How was he trained as a sith with all of them dead? Where are the knights of Ren and his connection to Snoke? How did he come to lead the First Order (as the SUPREME COMMANDER, not just a high ranking member of the empire like Vader). Snoke’s death surprised everyone, but that’s it. A moment of subversion that does nothing to serve the story.

*** -Snoke ultimately wasn't important to the story of Rey and Kylo. For Kylo, he was a means to an end, and that end was power. Kylo cut him down when he thought he was done with Snoke, when Snoke threatened the one thing Kylo thought he'd made a real connection with: Rey. Snoke held no other true importance.

-It's not the failure of THIS MOVIE (or, even, the entire trilogy) that you thought he was going to be explained, but rather your expectations for what this movie was going to be. Let's get into that:

-Think real hard back to the Emperor. We had one scene in ESB of Palpatine talking to Vader, and that was it. In ROTJ, we have more, but he's still just a scenery-chewing evil wrinkle without explanation. We dont know where he came from, how he got his powers, or how he came to lead the Empire beyond assumptions: dude was strong and people were into it. I mean we didn't even know the dude's name without the novelization. In fact, that's where a lot of the info about his rise to power came from. It was only later, through movies and series and MORE novels that we got his life and backstory fleshed out.

-If you went into TLJ expecting to get the deets on Snoke, or that he was going to be the big bad and last until the end, that was you projecting your own expectations onto something that definitely wasn't promising answers. I mean, the trailers did everything they could to get you to throw those expectations away, with them specifically playing Luke's line: "This isn't going to go the way that you think." That theme, expectations and how our own are dashed constantly because we rely on them too much, IS SO IMPORTANT. It is the keystone to everything, especially the whole bit about Failure we talked about up top. Luke fails because he expects to be able to train all those Jedi. Rey fails because she expects that she's gonna be the next Luke Skywalker. Kylo fails because he expects Rey, whose past is filled with pain just like him, will throw aside her new family, just like him.

-We aren't done with these themes but I've GOTTA move on here ***

Also, The First Order has to be one of the laziest enemy factions in film. We know nothing of their origin. Say what you want of the prequels, we get a very good overview of how the mighty evil empire came to be, an origin story that makes sense in the universe. Even though TFA didn’t give any explanation as to the rise of the First Order, I had held out hope that once we learned about Snoke (the SUPREME LEADER, insinuating he is not only the figure head but the reason for the existence of the order a la Hitler), we would learn about the First Order. But, of course, because the director was so eager to subvert our expectations, we get nothing from either. This leaves The First Order as a lazy, uninteresting antagonist for the rest of the series. “The First Order Reigns” indeed.

*** -I mean, we knew nothing about the Empire in ANH and ESB either, beyond "welp the Emperor dissolved the Senate." As you said there, it was only through prequels and books and games and comics that we got more information, an origin story. Nothing about the run-up to this film indicated that we'd learn about where they came from. Again, the expectations. If you went into the movie expecting clarification, something that wasn't promised, that can't be laid at the feet of TLJ. If it were crucial to the narrative for us to understand exactly where Snoke and the First Order came from, we'd have heard about that stuff in TFA. That was the first movie in the trilogy, that was the one to take the time to tell us all about the bad guys. But it's not! It's not important. It's just not at all important to the story being told here. Here's what was important: the new main characters, their histories, their dreams, their hopes. these are the bad guys, these are the good guys. it doesn't matter what fringe conflict lit the spark of the first order, right now. it doesn't matter where snoke was born or how he got his powers. what matters is that the first order grew in power, created a super weapon, and destroyed the republic. what matters is that snoke was immensely strong and reveled in the dark side, twisted ben solo into becoming kylo ren, and leads the first order. that is PRETTY MUCH the exact amount of information we had in ESB.

***

Leia being a superman in space is one of the worse things I’ve seen in the movies. This doesn’t have much impact with my overall thesis but I have to mention this. Leia is out in space for a long time, we know she is strong with the force, but there could’ve been so many other ways to show this other than this scene. Also, Ackbar dies without fanfare before that scene, which is dumb.

*** -No, this was great if only for the experience of Jessica seeing Leia, floating in space and presumed dead, and her whispering "OH FUCK YOU" in between sobs. I will always remember this scene because it was so raw emotionally for everyone in that theater. THUNDEROUS APPLAUSE when she reached out with the force and pulled herself to the blast door.

-I absolutely get if the scene didn't hit for you; not all scenes do for everyone. I have my problems with some of the more humorous bits in TLJ. But "one of the worst things I've seen in movies" is really strong? Stronger than I think that deserves? I dunno, man. You feel what you feel and I can't tell you otherwise, but I'm certain I could point to like INFINITE scenes and have them be worse than this one.

-but hey. If it didn’t work for you, I can’t argue that.

-Ackbar is a fun character for easter egg purposes but the dude is not nearly as important as the internet wants to make him. The movie was two and a half hours long, and spending more time than they did mourning Ackbar would have been a waste. For all the thinkpieces saying "thank you for mourning ackbar" you'd see just as many thinkpieces saing "TLJ is too long and it's because of ackbar." ***

That leads me to this next part. Admiral whats-her-name that takes over the resistance capital ship is a terrible character all around. When she sacrificed herself at the end for the fleet, there was no emotional impact at all (even given how great the cinematography is during the suicide scene). The director should’ve let Ackbar go out this way, why try to make us attach to some random admiral we know nothing about? Ackbar has history as a character, has a weight to character. Having him go out the way the admiral did would have made a great impact, and seen a great character go out in a very satisfying way. Instead, he is thrown out without fanfare and replaced. The only distinguishing feature of Ackbar’s replacement is that she had purple hair and argued with Poe. Which brings me to another not only throw away character but throw away plot section.

*** -Vice Admiral Holdo

-WHAT

-ARE YOU KIDDING ME MY DUDE

-MY DUDE I CANT WITH THIS

-im putting a placeholder here because i feel A MIGHTY NEED to come back to this and straighten you out but also i just need to move on because how DARE you i dont have time for this section right now

-i came back to this one just to say that you weren't paying attention to Holda and Poe's interactions. You were too excited for an old hero of the rebellion to get his due (ackbar) that you missed the tactic brilliant tactics and heroic sacrifice of of the hero in front of you (holda) which is exactly why it is so important that poe thinks holda should look different. She's not the person he expected, and that colors his opinion of her.

-"argued with poe" my dude, she didn't argue with poe. poe mutinied because she didn't tell him the plan, because he's a fuckin scrub that got their entire bomber fleet decimated in one attack that didn't even do much, because he's too concerned with being a hero of the resistance that he didn't stop to think about the actual tactical necessity of such an attack. which holda and leia did.

-BECAUSE HES A FUCKIN SCRUBLORD AND SHES A GODDAMN VICE ADMIRAL im real angry about this and the Rose paragraphs my man ***

Finn’s entire story was unnecessary and should have been cut. Why are we, as an audience, supposed to care about this story? It does nothing, doesn’t expand anything about the characters, other than being able to see Finn fight his old boss, but the whole story turns out to be a red herring. Rose (Finn’s companion throughout this story) was introduced without fanfare, and we are supposed to feel connected to her at the end when she saves finn, but I have trouble remembering her name. She had a sister that died, and she was sad. That’s all I got. I feel that you shouldn’t introduce a new character into an ongoing series if you won’t do anything significant with development. Finn’s partner and the admiral were both throw away characters. Compare this to someone like Lando, who is introduced in Empire Strikes Back but steals the show in his direction. We get a full fledged character, interesting and flawed, and all in one movie. It can be done, it was just done poorly in The Last Jedi.

*** -Dude you're straight up losin' me now. I have my problems with the casino world of Canto Bight and the things that happen through it, but you're kinda throwing a completely-fleshed-out character into space, and I can't really figure out why? Rose absolutely has motivations and character development. Shit, we know more about her than Poe:

---Sister was on the bomber that destroyed the first dreadnought, but she's not just SAD about her sister, she's PROUD of her sister (she talks about her sister, we know she shares the other half of the necklace, this is all clear stuff)

---She's steadfast in her duty and believes in the resistance, going so far as to protect the escape pods they have from being used by deserters, even when they're all running for their lives (she talks about shocking 3 or 4 people before finn shows up, which is honestly a big deal considering the stress everyone is under?)

---She absolutely believes in doing the right thing for the right reasons, and for standing up for the "little guy," even against the people you thought were your heroes. (again, shocks finn, a hero of the resistance who she ACTIVELY admires and fan-girls over, because he disappointed her, and also tells it like it is to finn re: the war profiteers and who the casino people are)

-She is the fucking emotional core of the movie, man. Her entire thing is hope. She carries the spark of hope within her, like literally she says this and they talk about the spark of hope over and over and over (she delivers that spark to the children of Canto Bight's goat-horse racetrack, and one of them turns out to be force-sensitive yo!)

-We get more about Rose and see more about why she's important than we ever get with Lando. Again, think REAL HARD about Lando's character development. Dude turns on Han, then turns back around and lets the resistance go. We know he originally owned the Falcon but that's basically it. The rest of his character (WHICH HEY, AGAIN, AINT THAT MUCH) comes in ROTJ. ***

There are some good things about this movie. Luke’s final shot with the two suns is a great piece of cinematography, and the cinematography overall is really incredible. The sets were great, and we of course get a cool lightsaber brawl that had some great choreography. Adam Driver and Daisy Ridley are really good in their moments alone, both of them steal the show in this film. Kylo Ren is by far the most interesting character in this series, and I hope he gets a good send off in the last film of the new trilogy. Mark Hamill was not given much to work with, but he did what he could. Even given that, I was enamored with his performance. I am a bit of a fan boy of his voice work, so I am definitely biased in this regard.

*** -Look I know this is the paragraph where you said there are good things but man, I really need you to go see this thing again. Look at all the bullshit Hamill is throwing down. The scene where Yoda comes back, Luke is instantly 30 years younger and complaining to that old puppet about how he tried but it's all too hard. And yeah, that's because Hamill is great, but also its because Rian Johnson fuckin knew exactly what he was doing, and the script gave Hamill so much damn screen time it's ridiculous. He had more time than Ford did in TFA, and knocked every scene he had out of the park. Damn, he was great. ***

I am not upset with the things you would expect, porgs didn’t matter, I thought they were cute, I didn’t care for the animals that were there clearly to only sell merchandise. I didn’t even mind the constant humor, which I think there is an argument that the constant humor weakens the film over all. The film tries to tackle dark themes which the humor brings levity.

What I lament most is the missed potential. We have been given fantastic explorations of the Star Wars universe in books and video games, some great explorations of the Light and Dark side that give a more nuanced view of the Star Wars universe. Luke even starts to mention the Hubris of the jedi, which I hoped he would elaborate on more and go into why he thought the jedi were wrong. I also hoped he would go into why we avoid the dark even though the jedi are wrong, I hoped Luke would explain how he came to these conclusions other than one student that fell to the dark. I hoped so much for so much more. There was a real opportunity here to make this exploration part of the main saga, but we instead get subversion for the sake of subversion, surprise for the sake of shock. There were some great things to build on from the previous film, but those are tossed aside for the sake of surprise. The Star Wars saga is worse because of the director’s decisions, and I’m sad it happened that way.

*** -I'm gonna toss this graph back up to the top. Things that you hoped for, I absolutely understand. There's something to be said for hoping for things. But a lot of what you said sounds a great deal more like you expected one thing, and got another. Your expectations led you to believe that you knew how this was going to go, and you were surprised and disappointed that you weren't right.

-You talk about "subversion for the sake of subversion" but, is that really true? What was subverted? Your expectations for how the story would go? For how the information would get doled out? I mean, lets get into that. Star Wars has trained us to believe that everyone is connected in some grand way to the Skywalker legacy, that history is just going to repeat itself. The prequels did that (fuckin, C3PO, damn), they cemented that. But hey, can I ask you something?

-We all kinda expected this to be another ESB right? After TFA being an homage to ANH, it kinda felt inevitable. Film has taught us to expect the "dark middle chapter," the "Empire" of the trilogy. There were story beats that you/we figured would come up.

-But can you really call it "subversion for the sake of subversion" when NOTHING WAS PROMISED from the very beginning?

-Movies have taught us to expect that the hero's past is mysterious, that they are tied in some mystical way to some dynastical destiny. That the villain at the head of the table is all-powerful, awe-inspiring, and has some rich backstory about how they came to power. But TFA and TLJ don't promise that any of that is coming. Indeed, they follow in the grand tradition of the original trilogy: give as little information as needed to follow the story of a resistance fighting back against a tyrannical empire, and the key players of that resistance.

-TLJ delivered on that legacy. It answered the questions that needed answering while at the same time ensuring that we weren't simply rehashing ESB. It set fire to the sacred jedi text tree, while ensuring that those texts weren't destroyed; they're in the hands of someone else, a new generation who might be able to do some good with them. ***

“It’s time for the old ways to die”…. Maybe they should have thought about that a little bit more before Yoda called lightning down on the Jedi tree.

*** THEY DIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIID THATS WHAT THE MOVIE’S ABOOOOOOOOUT, BURN IT ALL DOWN AND START ANEWWWWWWWWWWWWW, LIGHT THE SPAAAAAAAAAAARK ***

#tlj #star wars tlj #sw tlj #tlj spoilers #spoiler #spoilers