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ouyangzizhensdad · 3 years

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RE: WWX and his arc being about trauma. I got into the fandom through CQL and the first time I saw it I actually read a lot of his actions post the burning of Lotus Cove as being influenced by his trauma. He's paranoid even before getting thrown into the burial mounds. He seems to be self medicating with alchohol (which WQ kinda calls him out on). He over-reacts to a lot things, which seems to me like a nasty case of emotional dysregulation as a result of PTSD. He avoids all kinds (1/3)

Of reminders of his tramua, his sword being the greatest example but there were other little things. He never gave much of a fuck about propriety but the way he completely igonres it (and the possible social fallout) later speaks to me less about not caring and more about not *having* the emotional capacity to care, much like what happens with depression. Plus, a lot of his behaviour can be read with various shades of being self destructive, and there are just in general a lot of points (2/3)

Where it's made clear that he's in a pretty bad headspace (him crying about being useless in the burial mounds for example), but none of that ever really gets dealt with so all of those issues are still hanging under the surface even if they're not apparent all the time. I mean, this is just my take, but at least imo WWX ticks a lot of the checkboxes for PTSD in the drama and it explains a lot about the way he acts and the bad decisions he makes. Hope this was helpful! (3/3)

I'm only referring to the drama btw, not the novel (which I haven't read yet). My memory is terrible so I'm not sure if I made it clear or not lol. Anyways, have a good day ^^

Hi there,

I am always curious when people who have only engaged with CQL end up engaging with my novel-only meta blog but perhaps I shouldn’t be surprised: if CQL posts end up in the mdzs tag, why not the opposite? I’ve seen some of my novel meta reblogged and tagged with “the untamed” and “CQL” so maybe the answer is already out there, staring at me in the face!

I’ll start by saying that I do not wish to really argue with people’s interpretations of CQL since I consider that MDZS and CQL are very different works because so many changes were made in the process of adapting the novel, and I personally have no interest in analysing CQL except wrt how it can help us better understand the novel (seeing certain elements removed or changed may help us understand why they mattered in the first place or what their use was). So I will speak to the arguments that could be applied to the novel and why *I* don’t think WWX’s arc in the novel is about trauma, and why I don’t think that picking up certain behaviours that can be exhibited by people with PTSD (but not exclusively��by people with PTSD) is enough in itself to support the idea that a character’s arc is about trauma/shaped by PTSD. That does not mean that my interpretation is the only acceptable one--I am aware that a lot of people disagree with me on this and see trauma as a central theme/central part of WWX’s arc--and so I expect that a lot of people will disagree with my points (hopefully after they’ve read this post in good faith). And that’s perfectly fine: how likely is it that we can find another person who will agree 100% with our own interpretation of a work of fiction? And having divergent opinions floating around the fandom, or having to develop counter-arguments is a good way to strengthen our own pov if we don’t find ourselves convinced by that other interpretation, so it’s all good.

So first, I’ll address the biggest point of my argument before moving to address more specific points you raise in your ask. For me, WWX’s characterisation is not about trauma but about resilience.

So first, let’s clarify some things. Going through adversity/experiencing a situation that is difficult =/= experiencing trauma. Trauma is a concept referring to a potential response to going through adversity/experiencing something distressing or disturbing. In short, trauma as it is conceptualised and understood is not universal: not only in the sense that is a spatiotemporally specific concept used to make certain experiences intelligible, but as the reaction to difficult events (as well, what is considered to be an experience that falls under that concept is not itself universal and can take many gorms, and the behaviours and thoughts associated with trauma are generally not exclusive to it, ie having certain behaviours/thought processes is not an automatic proof that someone is dealing with trauma/ptsd). So after all this word vomit I want to clarify that my intent is not to suggest that WWX doesn’t go through experiences that are likely to cause trauma, but that to me, what is being portrayed is a different reaction to these events: resilience (if a slightly more “fictional” portrayal of resilience than what it would be presented in psychology/psychiatry).

Resilience refers to how people adapt or recover successfully from adversity/distressing situation/stress. That does not mean that people’s first reaction to adversity/distressing situations will be not defined by negative emotions, of course. For instance, I don’t think WWX’s heightened paranoia/emotional state directly after the fall of LP when he goes to look for JC is an indication of trauma because at this point WWX is still deep in the middle of that moment of adversity: he’s still a fugitive in the middle of a war, in the middle of danger. This also doesn’t mean that people cannot still have some temporary negative reactions to things that happened to them, afterwards: WWX having to pause when JC presents him with Suibian after he returns from Mass Grave Hill is not inherently an indication of trauma as it can be read that his sword a reminder of the difficult sacrifice he made--and the consequences he faced as a result (just because a situation was not traumatic doesn’t mean we enjoy revisiting it).

Why I think that WWX’s arc or characterisation is about resilience rather than trauma is because of many things, but mostly I want to point out two sections of the novel in particular.

First, this characterisation of WWX through JYL that we get relatively early in the novel:

Most memories from back then were already blurred. Yet, Jin Ling’s mother, Jiang Yanli, remembered all of them, and even told him quite a few. She said that, after his father heard of the news that his parents both died in battle, he had always dedicated himself to finding the child that these past friends had left behind. After searching for a while, he finally found the child in Yiling.

The first time they met, Wei Wuxian was kneeling on the ground, eating the fruit peels that somebody tossed on the ground. Yiling’s winter and spring were quite cold, yet the child only wore thin layers. His knees were already tattered, and on his feet were two different shoes that didn’t fit at all. As he was looking down, searching for fruit peels, Jiang Fengmian called him. He still remembered that there was a “Ying” in his name, so he lifted his head. Although his cheeks were both red and chapped from the cold, he still wore a smile.

Jiang Yanli said that he was born with a smiling look. No matter what unfortunate thing happened, he wouldn’t cling on to them; no matter what situation he was in, he would be happy. Although it sounded a bit heartless, it really was not bad.

This refers to a time of his life that is extremely difficult: he lost both his parents suddenly, at a young age, became suddenly homeless with no means to feed himself except to beg, and yet the only trauma he seems to carry from this experience is related to dogs. To me, this is a clear move from MXTX to position WWX as the kind of protagonist who can face a storm and keep his smile on his face. I can imagine that some people take it perhaps as a subversion, as the text telling us that WWX is weathering it all with a smile but underneath it all he is just a bundle of unaddressed trauma. And that’s certainly a possible interpretation, but it’s not mine. In this case I think the text is being straightforward. What we see of WWX also seems to support that: the way WWX just rolls with being brought back from the death, how easily he finds a way to adapt to things, etc.

I also find it meaningful that the novel choses to include in its ultimate chapter this discussion as part of its wrap-up of WWX’s journey and of Wangxian’s relationship.

After they left the shop, Wei Wuxian still sat on Xiao Pingguo while Lan Wangji held the reins in front.Swaying left and right atop the donkey, Wei Wuxian took the flute from his waist and placed it by his lips. The limpid notes flew across the sky like birds. Lan Wangji halted and listened quietly.

It was the song he sang for Wei Wuxian when they were stuck in the Xuanwu cave. It was also the song that Wei Wuxian just so happened to have played at Dafan Mountain, the song that enabled Lan Wangji to confirm his identity.

When he finished, Wei Wuxian winked his left eye towards Lan Wangji.

“How was it? Beautiful, huh?”

Lan Wangji slowly nodded. “For once.”

Wei Wuxian knew that ‘for once’ referred to how his memory was good for once. He could not help but smile.

“Don’t always be so angry about it. It was my fault in the past, alright? Besides, my terrible memory should be accredited to my mom.” Wei Wuxian propped his arm on Xiao Pingguo’s head, spinning Chenqing in his hand. “My mom said you have to remember the things others do for you, not the things you do for others. Only when people don’t hold so much in their hearts would they finally feel free.”

This was one of the only things he remembered about his parents.

Of course, this is not a direct reference to resilience as it is explored in psychology. But to me it speaks to that idea: one of the biggest lesson WWX has kept with him, one of his only memory of--and thus legacy from--his parents, is this idea that we should not hold so much in our hearts. It also reframes his bad memory as being the result of a philosophy, of an approach to life that not just about being grateful/paying your debts to others, but also a form of resilience, in a sense.

As well, I find that a lot of people who go with the trauma interpretation see WWX’s actions and thoughts processes dyring his YLLZ’s days as being the result of his ptsd, where I personally read it as the influence of modao. I am aware as well that some people do not think that modao actually harmed WWX during that period of his life, but I don’t think that LWJ would have been worried if there were not reasons to believe it would:

One against two, Lan Wangji still refused to back off. He gazed at Wei Wuxian, “Wei Ying, for cultivating an evil path you would eventually have to pay. Throughout time, there has not been a single exception.”

Wei Wuxian, “I can pay.”

Seeing how unconcerned he seemed to be, Lan Wangji lowered his voice, “The path would not only damage your body, but your heart as well (此道损身，更损心性。)”

So now, onto the specific points you raised in the ask.

Self-medicating with alcohol: WWX is shown to enjoy and drink large amounts of alcohol before the fall of LP and after most of the events of the novel have unfolded. In the novel, while WQ tries to make WWX stop drinking, it is as likely to believe that it is for his health (now that he doesn’t have a golden core) than it would be because she was worried he was self-medicating. As well, heavy drinking is a very normalized behaviour (although most physicians don’t think it’s a good thing) in a lot of cultures and times, and considering WWX’s higher tolerance and his general demeanor while imbricated, his drinking is not shown to have a negative effect on his ability to live his life. The line between “self-soothing” (normal aspect of being humans dealing with emotions and hardships) and “self-medicating” (pathological) is hard to trace with alcohol consumption. As well, just because people with PTSD may self-medicate with alchohol doesn’t mean all people who self-medicate with alcohol do it because of PTSD.

He's paranoid even before getting thrown into the burial mounds. As I mentioned briefly before, WWX is at the time a fugitive in the middle of a war: he’s still in the middle of those stressful events and his paranoia is not necessarily a maladaptive response since they are still very much fugitives in the middle of a war. Trauma is not really your reaction during but in the aftermath. It would be more telling if WWX were still exhibiting signs of paranoia in situations where he would have no reasons to.

He over-reacts to a lot things, which seems to me like a nasty case of emotional dysregulation as a result of PTSD. I’m not certain at which reactions you are referring to here, but especially considering that some of this might be chalked up to acting choices since this is based on CQL, I probably won’t address this one point too much in relation to the novel. I do want to emphasize though that we’ve seen prior to Sunshot campaign that WWX can be quite impulsive in certain situations (hitting JZX for insulting Shijie, which he does both before and after the events of the Sunshot Campaign). As well, I do think it’s important to remember that he is still in the middle of the war during the Sunshot campaign, and that he is also hiding something pretty important from the people close to him and living a sort of double life, on top of experiencing fatigue/hunger in a way he hasn’t for years due to the loss of his golden core. In short, there are a lot of things going on that can be used to explain what can be seen as “over-reactions” without necessarily going with PTSD.

avoids all kinds reminders of his trauma, his sword being the greatest example but there were other little things. I’ve broached in my previous discussions, but it’s also pertinent to remember his mom’s philosophy: we can also see this as WWX trying to leave in the pass this difficult sacrifice he made in order to move forward.

He never gave much of a fuck about propriety but the way he completely ignores it (and the possible social fallout) later speaks to me less about not caring and more about not *having* the emotional capacity to care, much like what happens with depression. I have to disagree with that interpretation of WWX and WWX’s actions, but again this might just be a case of CQL-only vs novel-only interpretations of the character. One thing WWX thinks about being reborn in a “lunatic’s” body is that he’ll get to have fun, the way he never could when his actions reflected on others. So while at times WWX flaunts propriety, he is aware of how his actions can impact others and show in different situations that he is aware of propriety. His choice to protect the Wen Remnants goes against that, for sure, but it isn’t necessarily a case of not understanding the possible social fallout so much as putting other things (ie his life-debt towards WN and WQ) before propriety, as we can see for example in this exchange.

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

“I don’t need anyone to speak for me.”

[...]

Swords unsheathed, the two stared at each other for a while. Neither was willing to take a single step back. A while later, Jiang Cheng spoke, “Wei Wuxian, have you still not realized what the situation at hand is like? Do you really need me to say it out loud? If you insist on protecting them, then I won’t be able to protect you.”

“There’s no need to protect me. Just let go.”

Jiang Cheng’s face twisted.

Wei Wuxian, “Just let go. Tell the world that I defected. From now on, no matter what Wei Wuxian does, it’d have nothing to do with YunmengJiangShi.”

“… All for the Wen Sect…? Wei Wuxian, do you have a savior complex? Is it that you’ll die if you don’t stand up for someone and stir up some trouble?”

Wei Wuxian stayed quiet. A while later, he answered, “So that’s why we should cut ties right now, in case anything I do affects YunmengJiangShi in the future.”

a lot of his behaviour can be read with various shades of being self destructive Which ones, specifically? I’m not trying to be obtuse, but I’m not sure which ones you mean.

he's in a pretty bad headspace (him crying about being useless in the burial mounds for example) It needs to be said that the crying is only in CQL (it was an acting choice by XZ). My memory is playing tricks on me, but I think pre-rebirth we only see him cry after he kills JZX and after JYL’s death? Someone please fact-check me on this.

Since I don’t believe it was MXTX’s intent to make WWX’s characterisation and arc about trauma, I do feel like interpreting the different behaviours as signs of his PTSD might lead us to miss out on other potential interpretations or meanings behind these choices, if we put aside the PTSD angle. It may also lead us to deny the text the possibility to signify something different through these behaviours and signs, especially on a thematic level--to explore something about how events and emotions shape us in a manner that exists outside of modern psychiatric classification.

TLDR (because god this got long): My point is not that WWX is unaffected by the things that happened to him or the things he’s done during this portion of his life: of course he is! Especially as they are happening to him, or when he is still stuck in a very difficult situation. But I don’t think his character and his arc is about trauma but instead about resilience. That, at the end of MDZS, WWX is still the person JYL described: No matter what unfortunate thing happened, he wouldn’t cling on to them.

#wintersrchild #mdzs meta #mdzs #wwx #maybe i should tag this as unpopular opinion? just in case

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wuxian-vs-wangji · 4 years

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So like you said, in the show they say flat out that Wei Wuxian didn't die, he was injured by the fall instead and the sacrificing curse used Mo Xuanyu's life force to heal him completely (even his scars other than the four slashes). Why do you think Nie Huaisang kept Wuxian in a coma for so long without trying to heal him?

Hum...

First off, highlighting this ask is about the S-H-O-W (that means *not* the novel)

So just to state it a little more clearly:: In Episode 42(?) when Wuxian unsheathes Suibian in the Jin treasure room, Jin Guangyao says he remembers an old scroll written by Wei Wuxian himself showing a spell in which “a severely injured person can be healed” by someone else’s sacrifice.

Making this change has a cascading effect on the story, since Wei Wuxian does not resurrect into a different body but back into his own (thank god, because we got to keep staring at Xiao Zhan an extra 19 episodes). In general what I think happened is that Huaisang was either instructed by Mingjue to stand in wait or that he just was watching from afar when the Battle of Nightless happened. If anyone understands the dangers of out-of-control resentful energy it is a Nie.

The writing was on the wall, they couldn’t stop Wei Wuxian’s death even if they wanted to. He was going to die sooner or later- by execution, suicide, his own magic destroying him, etc.

So the Nie- probably unknown to anyone else- were prepared to contain his soul and the resentful energy therein as they do their ancestors. No other sect deals with explosive resentful energy, it was always going to be on the Nie to handle that one (but not in a way the other sects know about because that would risk exposing the Saber Tombs).

Now, in the NOVEL- putting little clues together- it looks like Wei Wuxian was contained in a Spirit Trapping Pouch, like what Xiao Xingchen’s soul is contained in. He’s bound in some way- no one, not even Wangji, could reach him with any form of spirit inquiry.

So since his body wasn’t destroyed in the SHOW, context clues here say that Huaisang found Wuxian around the same time Jiang Cheng came down the side of the cliff to look for the body. Jiang Cheng has Chenqing at the showdown in Guanyin Temple- so he found the flute. Again, a Nie knows how dangerous resentment is, and they’re EXPERTS at containing spiritual weapons. That Huaisang took Wuxian but didn’t/couldn’t search thoroughly enough to find Chenqing suggests he was rushed.

Wei Wuxian was presumably on death’s door. He burned away the arrow wound to his heart, but I’ll dip to the novel to say that it clarifies that the Stygian Tiger Seal drains Wuxian’s spiritual power VERY quickly. Between that and just how long his attack on Nightless ran, the boy’s batteries were on empty and he probably couldn’t heal a granite belly-flop.

================================

So, Huaisang leaves with Wuxian’s body (probably with Mingjue’s knowledge because Huaisang couldn’t do this all on his own), then what happened? I straddle the line between two schools of thought on this one.

#1 :: Keeping him in a coma was the safest way to contain him

If Huaisang somehow froze Wei Wuxian so that his injuries neither healed nor bled out, it would be like entombing him in his own body. Generations of Nie went insane at the end of their lives and turned into violent rage monsters. Huaisang- and probably Mingjue because, again, you’d need the Clan Leader on board for this- wouldn’t look on Wuxian in the same light as the others because of Nightless. They don’t consider their father/grandfathers/etc. any less because of how their lives ended, they’d understand Wei Wuxian wasn’t the problem, the Yiling Patriarch was.

Wuxian was so lost and so powerful, he was going to be HARD to contain when he died. If that was possible at all. So while they looked for a solution or delayed the inevitable, it is safer to prevent Wei Wuxian’s death at all. If there is a way to freeze someone (that time stop spell Wuxian uses but on a long-term scale), they could pin him at his last breath to buy time.

Then Mingjue disappears, Huaisang keeps Wuxian sealed away, and eventually Mo Xuanyu brings up the sacrificing curse and Huaisang realizes that unleashing Wei Wuxian might be the way forward against Jin Guangyao.

******* Click HERE for my post arguing that Mo Xuanyu might be the original mastermind (Though “Fatal Journey” rendered some of it moot, the overall logic is still sound) *******

I also want to note just somewhere in this whole answer that Nie Huaisang seemed supremely confident that Wei Wuxian wasn’t going to go full Yiling Patriarch when he emerged, either because Wangji was nearby with baby Lan or he trusted that Wuxian wasn’t the monster he was painted to be. Either via a friend’s intuition (Huaisang never seemed to really fear him) or perhaps he had someone playing something like Cleansing over his body to make sure he was calming down. IDK, but the boy doesn’t seem worried in the least. He’s even right next door throughout the resurrection and Saber Spirit Attack, not worried about getting away from the crater in case Wuxian goes nuclear again.

OK, back to my answer---

#2 :: Sometimes they just don’t wake up

Xiao Xingchen had no will to live, even trapped in the soul pouch. Wei Wuxian was very much in the same state mentally.

Physically though, it might not have mattered WHAT his mental state was, he was simply too injured to ever regain consciousness on his own. Even if Huaisang tried from Day 1 to heal him, helped re-set bones and stitch his wounds closed, Wei Wuxian’s body was too shattered.

It is possible for someone to simply sustain too many injuries or suffer too great a trauma to wake up from a coma. It happens IRL too. People will even wake up after YEARS in a coma. So Huaisang might not have intentionally kept Wuxian out of it, he may simply have been unable to wake without massive healing work to re-set the body to where it was when it was first injured (like if Wuxian was brain dead).

I will say this theory has a flaw, IDK how fatal it is though:: Jin Ling isn’t dead yet, but Wangji still reaches his soul via Inquiry in the Saber Tombs. So if Huaisang healed Wuxian and just let him lay in a coma undisturbed for 16 years, Lan Wangji should have been able to reach him. I mean, even if it’s hard and the odds of success are terrible, he played Inquiry every single night for 16 years. Even a blind squirrel finds nuts sometimes (unless distance played a factor, or any other protections the Nie had up, which is why I say this may not be a fatal flaw).

===============================

**I do want to make a note about the Sacrificing Curse as a healing tool that wipes out ALL of Wei Wuxian’s injuries. Watch the Doctor Who two-part episode set “The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances” (from Season 1 of the reboot). Sorry, but to make my point I need to spoil the big twist:: The “monster” wreaking havoc on London during the 1940s Blitz is actually a crashed medical ship with healing drones who find a dead child but aren’t programmed to human DNA, so they create terrifying creatures with gas-mask faces because that’s how they think humans are (they save the child, don’t worry).

At the end of the 2nd part, the Doctor reprograms them with human DNA so they burn themselves out healing the individual people and turning them back to normal. There is a line where a physician is approached by a patient who shockingly says her long-missing leg has even grown back.

It is wrong to say the Sacrificing Curse healing all of Wuxian’s injuries- even his scar- is “convenient” (as some people did on a previous post of mine). I think it’s like the drones in the Doctor Who episode- you tell them to heal, they’ll heal abso-fucking-lutely everything that is imperfect or incorrect. Think about it- Wei Wuxian even got a Golden Core out of the deal. The curse used whatever it needed from Mo Xuanyu to heal Wei Wuxian. No exceptions. If he had a PAPERCUT it would treat it as an imperfection no different from a crushed skull.

A powerful healing spell like that is powerful precisely because it works on a massive scale. Mo Xuanyu was dying to save Wei Wuxian, so he was going to get his money’s worth. Yeah, Wuxian’s burn scar disappears. IDK why that’s so hard for some people to process when they can easily accept that he’s no longer puddle-shaped.

TL;DR:: IDK, but I’ve put a ton of thought into it.

#ask #long answer #Anonymous #mine #nie huaisang #mo xuanyu #wei wuxian #i've actually put very very little thought into this #most of this was off-the-cuff #my brain fills in and spirals out while I type which is useful when I'm writing but not great when I'm trying to answer an ask #in less than 150;000 words

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axelsandwich · 5 years

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Sorting The Untamed characters

In which I have a lot of feelings about sorting The Untamed characters into @sortinghatchats classifications because I’m a LOSER NERD WITH FEELINGS : D

Wei Wu Xian - Gryffindor primary/Gryffindor secondary

WWX’s Gryff energy is like….what are you so LOUD for. There’s nothing he can do other than stick to his morals and principles and what his gut is telling him is the right thing to do, no matter the cost. Even if it makes him public enemy number one of the cultivation world, even if it exiles him from his family and clan, even if it goes against everything he was taught and involves helping and saving his worst enemies - see: Wen clan in Xuanwu cave, the cultivators in Burial Mound after losing their spiritual powers due to Su She. This is someone who adheres brightly and with his all to his principles simply because it is the RIGHT thing to do and he knows this with unshaken conviction and is steady once he discovers this, which has its own power.

Honestly I was actually initially thinking between Slytherin with Claw and Claw secondary because WWX has an improvisational streak to him, managing to thrive even when thrown into the worst of circumstances with a combination of his own prodigious skill and flexibility when it comes to drastically relearning the dark arts to compensate for a lack of golden core. But here’s the passage that convinced me otherwise: “it is a Gryffindor’s stark, direct honesty makes them them feel the most secure. Lies, or even misdirects, are slippery footing. For a Gryffindor Secondary, their blunt honesty is a facet of their personality and their morality—lying about who or why you are taints the victory. A Gryffindor Secondary can and will lie if the cause is important enough— but it will leave a bad taste in their mouth the same way trusting a stranger with their honesty might terrify a Slytherin Secondary.” The blunt honest is self-evident in…well, WWX’s entire existence lmao but even when young in the Gusu Lan sect. But what convinces me is after WWX gets Chenqing and the way the great lie about why he doesn’t use Suibian anymore is framed afterwards. It kills WWX to lie about all that he is, it’s presented as one of the fundamental tragedies of his story - the ultimate betrayal of himself that he makes for a greater purpose and in pursuit of his Gryff primary ideals. The fact it’s not treated lightly or as a tool to be used to achieve his goals is what makes him a Gryff secondary.

He models a Claw’s curiosity and intellectual fascination with questioning the world order and a Slytherin’s keen eye for motivations and people, but ultimately it comes down to that red thread of charging when backed into a corner - quite literally, he charges towards the Xuanwu, out of Chiongqi Road with the Wen prisoners, into the plaza of cultivators calling for his ashes, directly into Guanyin temple where Jingyi is in danger; he puts himself in harm’s way without a second thought when his gut is telling him he’s right to do so. He also has the classic Gryff secondary trait of amassing an accidental army in his wake of the most unlikely people, all transformed by his draw and that irresistible quality of truth to him.

Lan Wang Ji - Gryffindor primary/Ravenclaw secondary

LWJ is a quiet version of the Gryffindor primary, raised in a culture that forces him into like…the strongest of all Ravenclaw models. He adheres strictly and obediently to the Lan clan’s system of the world because in his mind, it was the right thing to do… until WWX forces him to re-examine his morality, about what he was taught and everything he believed was right. And when his model of the world is challenged, what he ultimately goes with is…his heart. Not necessarily because his morality is guided by how WWX is his in the same way of Slytherin/Hufflepuff’s personal morality, but because WWX embodies the new insight that nothing is truly black or white in the way his clan’s system has taught; because LWJ feels that WWX is good, even when every other rule he’s been taught is saying otherwise and, little by little, he rebels quietly by dismantling those systems that once shaped his worldview.

LWJ wrestles visibly with this the entire flashback arc of the drama, unable to bring himself to denounce WWX despite all the ‘bad’ he had done all the way until the Nightless City battle and when push came to shove, at the very end, he still chose to clutch onto WWX’s hand until WWX made the choice for him to let go. I do think he was ‘stripped’ by the experience - his internal compass, sense of purpose, and even sense of worth broken by the loss of WWX and that’s what he spends 16yrs atoning and suffering for. After WWX’s revival, he accordingly sets himself up against the cultivation world with no hesitation because he’s had 16yrs to regret not following his Gryff primary heart that said WWX’s way of seeing the world is right and he’s not going to falter again.

Ravenclaw secondary bc……his first instinct when his boyfriend was changed by demonic cultivation was to flip the library upside down trying to find a cure and try to invent a whole ass song to cure him nghghghshf. But yes, he’ll fall back on systems, skills and knowledge he’s carefully built from the ground up when backed in a corner, drawing on what he’s known and carefully cultivated, looking through resources to try and gain more knowledge.

Wen Qing - Slytherin primary/Slytherin secondary

Wen Qing’s morality and driver is very simple. It’s her brother at the start, her family, and gradually expands as people help him and - by extension - her: WWX, LWJ, Jiang Cheng. For them, she’ll betray the wider clan with very few qualms because they’re not her people and those who are hers come first. She connects with Jiang Cheng on the basis of both their Slytherin primaries, but understands immediately that he would never have gone with her to rescue Wen Ning because while she may tentatively be one of ‘his’ people in his mind, Wen Ning isn’t, and so any future with him is tragically unaccepted. When it comes down to sacrificing even the brother she holds so dear, she does it in the hope that her people - WWX and her wider family by proxy - may be saved from the cultivation world’s wrath. She’s a Slytherin secondary because she’s adaptable and able to draw on whatever skills she needs and be who she needs to be to achieve her goals, with a knack for zeroing in precisely on people’s true motivations and what will and won’t work with a cultivation society looking to find a bad guy. You can bet she’s the one who figured out how to trick Jiang Cheng into believing he could get his golden core back. It’s telling that her most emotional moments are when she lays down all her defences and sincerely speaks from the heart - whether it’s crying over Wen Ning’s body or thanking Wei Wu Xian and apologising. ; _ ; Wen Qing is a good egg.

Jiang Cheng - Slytherin primary/Gryff secondary

It’s clear from the start that Jiang Cheng’s morality revolves around his family who are his and come above everyone else, along with his pride (but we’re not gonna talk about thatttt...). His impassioned plea of ‘it was enough to just save ourselves, why did you have to save them’ re: bringing the Wen clan wrath upon the Jiang clan proves he could never see eye to eye with WWX’s Gryffindor primary that demands what is right be applied to all, and therein lies the source of their feud, when we get to the pointy end and doing what’s right involves a lot more sacrifice and hardship. Jiang Cheng’s very specialised loyalty is tested over and over throughout the beginning of the series by outsiders casting suspicion on WWX’s motivations, pricking at his pride and his deep set insecurities about his own position and whether he’s actually loved by the people he’s claimed as his own and also on their priority list (see: his father, WWX).

What truly makes him give up and cut WWX out of his circle is when WWX himself says ‘I exile myself from the tribe’. In Jiang Cheng’s eyes, to betray the people who are yours is what is unforgivable and impossible to understand, and that’s what comes out as the most deeply buried point of pain in Guanyin temple and what’s driven JC’s anger the last sixteen years. That doesn’t make him any less of an extreme Gryff secondary than WWX, whether it’s charging straight into the feared Burial Mound where no one’s ever come out alive just to drag his brother out and confront him about all the problems directly, to confronting WWX directly in Lotus Cove, to marching into Guanyin temple’s front door. Which is probably why they fight. We also find out in the end that Jiang Cheng is fully capable of the same dumb self sacrifice that WWX made for him. Ironically, both of their actions boil down to ‘I must protect my brother’, except where WWX does it because it’s right, Jiang Cheng does it because that’s his brother.

Jin Guangyao - Slytherin primary/Slytherin secondary

WWX’s diametric opposite. I do think he seems like a petrified Slytherin - Guanyin temple arc reveals that his world once comprised at least of himself and his mother, and perhaps the idealised image of who his father would be, and he strove and strove until his father shattered all his dreams, until his world narrows until it’s ultimately and dangerously comprised of just himself. I do think Nie Mingjue, Su She, Qin Su and Lan Xichen came the closest to who he would consider ‘his’ people, but even that falls away as they ‘betray’ him and because his actions are ultimately guided by his loyalty only to himself, and warps exactly what he interprets as ‘betrayal’. This is what allows him to betray them when they ultimately fall out of line with JGY’s priorities and give them such cruel endings despite how much he professes to treasure them. It’s what creates his resentment against NMJ that festers until it leads to NMJ’s demise - in JGY’s eyes, to throw aside everything in their relationship for the sake of some lowly, subhuman captain who’s always treated JGY with contempt and to keep holding it against him is incomprehensible, unforgivable. It’s also why LXC stabbing him is met with such choking disbelief and anger - because JGY, true to his word, would have never entertained the concept of betraying a person who was proving to be his and LXC was his last hope. His secondary Slytherin allows him to transform and shift with the wind, shedding personas and layers as easily as water, the same way it pains WWX to do the same.

Nie Huaisang - Slytherin primary/Slytherin secondary

Jin Guangyao’s equal and foil, ironically also putting up a very self-entered front in the world where it seems like he only cares about his own self interests but quietly loyal to a select number of people who are his - WWX, his elder brother - and will quietly work in the shadows playing the long con to systematically dismantle everything about the person he despises. Slytherin secondary allows him to make himself a fool without any qualms about it not being a reflection of his true face or authentic self, and pull the puppet strings on even those he cares about until he gets to where he wants to be.

Lan XiChen - Ravenclaw primary/Ravenclaw secondary

Xichen sticks much more closely to what his clan’s systems are and his carefully constructed understanding of the world and that’s what both blinds him to JGY and shakes his worldview so heavily when JGY reveals himself to be a villain. But his felt morality, guided by the system of being just and fair is also what allows him to reject JGY and entertain the possibility of his betrayal. A Slytherin primary may stubbornly cling to faith in a person that he sees as ‘his’ person, but a Ravenclaw primary will feel guilty and immoral to be sticking with them despite knowing they’re betraying the system of justice that he prides above all. It’s what allows him to be an ally to both WWX/LWJ and JGY for the latter half of the series, trying to understand and question the logical holes in WWX and LWJ’s arguments. Where WWX and LWJ don’t have evidence for JGY being evil, they can feel it in their guts and they charge towards getting that evidence based on those convictions. LXC on the other hand may sense something in his gut but he will not act against JGY without being convinced of said evidence, until he is certain of what the real truth is and will methodically keep digging and questioning the evidence being presented to him until it becomes undeniable. It’s also telling that his anger when Huaisang manipulates him into stabbing JGY is not so much about the fact he betrayed his friend (which is the key pain point that JGY angrily latches onto) but that Huaisang may have been lying, that LXC may have acted on something that was not true and he had been unable to see through that. It’s a subtle difference I think, but what separates his primary. I think his Ravenclaw secondary is pretty obvious in the thoroughness of his methods and the ways we’ve seen him dodge the Wen clan, to be willing to work with JGY during the Sunshot Campaign. It requires flexibility of thinking and drawing on a range of resources and that’s what LXC quietly excels at.

Jiang Yanli & Wen Ning - Hufflepuff primary/Hufflepuff secondary

Both are honestly quite similar — they’ll hold onto their belief in the basic goodness of all people, regardless of allegiance and regardless of their past history and that’s the source of what endears them to people and why they manage to build an army of people who would die and care for them when push comes to shove.

The little we see of both Yanli and Wen Ning’s way of operating from a secondary perspective revolves around being of service to others, being a source of reliability, support and consistency, quietly building, strengthening and contributing to their little community. Wen Ning quietly and diligently attends to WWX’s protection at all times, reliably taking on the roles allocated to him with a genuine commitment to performing them to his best ability.

When they ‘fight’, they fight by drawing on their resources, through a thorough, systematic and relentless persistance. A Li’s approach to the battle of words on Phoenix Mountain is an example of this - she draws upon her position, her knowledge of what is ‘proper’ to do within the community and the goodwill she’s built with Madame Jin to subtly dismantle Jin Zixun’s arguments while still pleasantly entrapping him in the niceties of the community she’s a part of without alienating herself the same way WWX can’t help but do with his bluntness. When JC threatens to push WWX to the limits of his endurance, Wen Ning defends WWX through words, standing up again and again despite being violently thrown back and systematically dismantling all of JC’s defence mechanisms by thoroughly and sincerely pushing back on every false claim and even urging JC to call on the community to verify the truth of his words. They’re indomitable, stubborn and effective and that’s Puff/Puff energy right there.

Jin Ling - Gryff primary/Gryff secondary

Gryff primary…why are you so LOUD for Pt 2. Poor Jingyi, two Gryff secondary uncles and father…he had no chance lmaaaao. Impulsive, reckless, absolutely a ‘charge first and ask questions later’ kid and screaming Gryff secondary. Will bash a hole in a wall when he’s denied entry and get caught by the skeleton demons than like…find another way around, you know? Or charge into Guanyin temple without much second thought. His Gryff primary and his gut morality of what is right - aka. trusting WWX and treating him with fairness - ultimately wins against him being pushed hard into the whole ‘pride in your clan only’ angle by his Slytherin primary uncle, and that’s what allows him to become a WWX duckling (begrudgingly) despite all his puffery and objections. It’s also what lets him survive and accept the betrayal of seeing his other uncle revealed as a villain and how he’s able to reject JGY when his misdeeds become undeniable. I also think it’s super cute he’s the same type as WWX, honestly...it’s why I love their dynamic. He’s the young, unjaded version of his uncle.

Lan Sizhui - Puff primary/Gryff secondary with a Claw model?

There’s a kindness to Shizui that he extends to Mo Xuanyu, Jin Ling and Wen Ning against convention and despite - in Jin Ling’s case - how hard he tries to create distance in that relationship that makes me think Puff primary and his determination to see everyone as people to be respected. I feel like we don’t see enough of Sizhui in action to really be able to determine his secondary - he has something of secondary Puff/Claw vibes in the way he comes across as quietly diligent, reliable and insightful, but he’s also got a certain amount of fire when he needs to - grabbing people’s legs as a kid, making a move towards possessed Song Lan in Yi City despite WWX telling them all to get out, brawling with the other ducklings when tied up, rushing recklessly back up the Burial Mound path to find WWX and LWJ who were holding back the ghouls etc. Maybe a secret Gryff secondary that’s normally held in place by a Claw or Puff model.

#the untamed #sorting hat chats #sort ALL the people!#cql #mdzs #too many characters to tag!#wei wu xian #lan wangji #GRYFF ENERGY OUTTA THE WAZOO

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mihanada · 6 years

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Grandmaster of Demonic Cultivation / Mo Dao Zu Shi Opening PV

As usual, my screenshots + commentary! I love the opening, so pretty.

edit: after some discussion, I think it’s decided (for now) that the third person in the center of the Lanling Jin portrait is Jin Guangshan, not Jin Guangyao, so I’ve changed that.

I am always weak for ink painting animation scenes, ever since I was a kid watching Mulan. xD Look, badly dubbed martial arts movies aside, there really weren’t many Chinese-centered movies or actors/actresses when I was little. Still aren’t, but aside from my mother translating one of the Monkey King adaptations for me (not even sure how she pulled this off haha) and watching a few movies with subtitles, that was pretty much all there was.

But anyways, here’s a nice ink painting guqin and flowers. Not sure which flowers...plum blossoms? Maybe? I’m awful at identifying flowers.

And we have Wei Wuxian’s flute to complete the set!

Fun fact that I’ve mentioned somewhere before: Wei Wuxian plays the dizi, a transverse/horizontal flute, as opposed to Lan Xichen’s xiao, a vertical flute. The dizi can produce a livelier tune, the xiao is calmer and more of a deep mellow tune.

No clue what the flowers are this time. Maaybe an orchid??

kinda resembles it, right?

The plum blossom represents perseverance and endurance, as a flower that blooms despite the winter cold. Sound like someone we know?

As for the orchid...welp, it’s hard to find a reliable source. What do these symbolise in Chinese culture? I don’t know if I trust random flower symbolism sites >> they usually get things a bit off in my experience looking up Japanese flower symbolism and cross-checking with actual Japanese sites. But, what I’ve found seems to indicate they represent nobility (of character) and integrity.

Maybe I’m looking too much into this, but maybe the animation team chose them for a reason. xD

have some nice bamboo

title drop! I love this art/animation. also, the little...flame-like thing slowly filling with ink is nice

a lotus? these flowers are killing me, lol. they’re very pretty, I like the gentle splash of color.

Pretty dragonflies + lotus flowers

This is definitely young Wei Wuxian. Definitely. He has an adorable baby face and smile. Plus, Lan Wangji in the next shot also looks younger.

everyone was so happy back then sob.

I’m actually quite impressed with the way they drew the younger/older selves. The differences are slight, but apparent. also, Lan Wangji has this little pout-frown in this shot haha.

erm, Lotus Pier? Yes? Looks like it.

So.

Prissy. I’m slowly getting used to ikemen Jiang Cheng, but I still think this beautiful elegant face does not suit him xD

Color coded for your convenience: Yu Ziyuan, Jiang Fengmian, Jiang Yanli.

Ah, I love Jiang Cheng’s mom here. She looks appropriately...glower-y. Like the novel said, “natural at sneering” which she passed onto Jiang Cheng xD.

Lan Xichen, Lan Qiren, Lan Sizhui, and Lan Jingyi.

omg Lan Qiren you

look at him stroking his beard like some scholarly old dude. I still imagine him with white hair though lol

Look at this messed up family. Actually this is a highly inaccurate family portrait!! You’re missing a dozen other illegitimate children lol.

Anyways, Jin Zixuan, Jin Guangyao this is probably Jin Guangshan, and Jin Ling I think. Though, Jin Ling ends up looking the same age as Jin Zixuan haha oh how sad.

I do like how they did the peony emblem! Considering how complex that shape is, and how it has to be drawn each time one of these characters appears, I like what they settled on.

Alright, next are the flags. The way they all show up is impressive. Nice animation there.

This is the Jiang clan’s lotus design. The symbols are actually quite complex, very pretty.

The Nie clan’s beast head! Looks kind of like an ox.

Ironically the Lan clan’s flag is there for literally a fraction of a second, this is the only shot I Could get of it. Plus, the light blue on that dark beige makes it difficult to see the cloud. And, of course, we have the Jin clan’s peony as well.

The Wen clan’s sun motif. So, their color is red. I think we saw their uniform in a early trailer though.

lol random Lan Wanji and Lan Xichen looking pretty with their hair flying everywhere.

This really needs a gif to get the full sense of the scene, but it’s a cool one (that weird transition above aside). It’s one of those times Wei Wuxian snuck alcohol into the Cloud Recesses and Lan Wangji started attacking him haha. Then we have Bichen and probably Suibian in the background.

The animation here is quite fluid, I can’t wait to see it in full and not shrunken xD

These are just cool screenshots.

WHY THIS ANGLE. I think this is Jin Ling (note the long tied back hair). Notably, you can see Wei Wuxian has his arms crossed behind his back the whole time. In both sequences, Wei Wuxian isn’t attacking at all lol.

why hello Jiang Cheng you look really weird at this angle

arrows?? ok looks cool. why you so dramatic Jiang Cheng. you probably didn’t need to flip while using your whip.

I really like the animation of him flipping and landing, it’s smooth and the final action has a bit of weight to it. In contrast to the more airy, light steps in the mini fight sequence to the left.

Once again nothing to say here, just a nice looking Jin Ling.

Oh look, lots of unfamiliar-familiar faces!

Uhhhh let’s see, Wen Ning and Wen Qing for the first two in the Wen clan’s red and white uniform, then one of the numerous Wen scumbags for the last guy? probably.

Then the unreliable looking guy is Nie Huaisang and the angry D:< looking guy is Nie Mingjue.

poor Nie Huaisang you got tossed in with all the dead people even though you actually live haha.

A very awkward close up of Lan Wangji’s face. Actually, I really like how his eyes narrow a bit here, it’s perfect for showing his expressions considering he doesn’t really emote very clearly otherwise.

And that’s a wrap!

I really like the logo/title. very nice.

Now, who’s ready to die with me when the donghua actually comes out??

#grandmaster of demonic cultivation #founder of diabolism #mo dao zu shi #魔道祖師 #mdzs donghua #mdzs #image heavy post

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