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chengxians · 2 years

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A follow-up bc chengxian is always on my mind and these twin prides will never leave me alone:

Honestly I've always been a sucker for loss of innocence arc/immense loyalty to a bad system being broken so I really enjoyed LWJ's personal character arc. And his internal crisis between his sect and teachings vs. what WWX has enlightened him to definitely shows.

But, my issue mainly comes from the thing where when he is WWX (post-reseruction) he kind of just follows WWX's lead in the CQL. Like it's one thing to be content with where your morality lies and the fact that the person it aligns with is now with you.

But like there was no debate for example with the Paperman scene where they find NMJ's head (not sure if it played out the same way in the novel). Like they just try to burst in and catch JGY off guard to confront him which is not very different from what happened at Carp Tower when WWX finds out the truth about the Wen Camps. Like correct idea but bad execution to get the outcome you want.

So, like, what I meant by with the blind following (I always adore devotion tropes) is that he never suggests alternative ways to get the same solution. Or even ask WWX to walk him through his plans so LWJ can see if it can be improved or changed in some way (though I do commend him for trying to atleast do some harm reduction towards WWX's behaviour with the "come to GusuLan" thing -> though this also feels like pre-revival and post-revival WWX seemed like he needed a place to hide out).

That aside, I do thing Wang Y!bo did a wonderful job with LWJ, especially since they probably cut down on some development due to Ch!nese censorship and all. Like his face when he calls back the line WWX gave about bridges(?) like the one at Carp Tower was incredible and conveyed so much.

Maybe it's because borderline unhealthy, feral relationships are my jam that Chengxian really does it for me. Like they yell and fight and it gets ugly but you know its that way due to the fact that they love each other, not in spite of it. And just the whole "love is not always enough" thing. It's one of the reasons I also love Chengqing too (like god tier for the CQL for coming up with that one).

Also just JC's face as WWX plays his flute at the temple. Like he's giving permission to WWX to use demonic cultivation, the thing that killed his sister to protect his sister's son, his nephew and the most important person in his life because JC trusts WWX this much? Priceless (Wang Zhuocheng truly is an icon).

god op i literally adore your brain 😩❤️ i actually think your interpretation of lwj is exquisite, like ur gonna make me rethink any possible ways i had ever considered writing him (this is VERY /pos)

i do agree that lwj definitely should have idk…pushed more? during the paperman/jgy scene. that whole arc kinda felt like mxtx going “god im so fucking tired of writing this part” bc i probably would have done the same LOL

lwj immediately telling his brother he trusted wwx with his life/to always be correct/whatever was a very sexy but stupid moment tbh. like if i had been lxc i probably would have burst into laughter 💀

if jc had been in this scene, he DEFINITELY would have been like 🤨🤨 wwx are you SURE. can we go over this again. the foils btw lwj & jc are genuinely one of my favorite things about the novel (fave is actually xuexi4o’s foil to w4ngxian) and probably why i adore w4ngchengx1an as a throuple. wwx gets the best of both worlds and that is just so important to me.

GOD I AGREE…..wang y1bo did a SPLENDID job. first of all his voice is 😳 i have SUCH a thing for deep voices. being able to see his jaw tighten whenever wwx did some dumb shit was so good. i do generally like idol actors (bc my standards are very low and i like having fun) but even by idol actor standards: he did a phenomal job!

i cant even lie bro: the more fucked up the chengxian is, the more i love it. like YES give me unhealthy dependency. give me verbal abuse-turned-self-hatred. give me the inherent nausea of realizing you’re in love with your brother. YES!!!!!!

i also adore chengqing. literally cql director’s brain was so big. i KNOW wen qing pegs him bro

i havent hit that scene in cql yet but i know. i KNOW i am going to be thinking about “the thing that killed his sister to protect his sister’s son, his nephew and the most important thing in his life because he trusts WWX that much?” the entire time. (the scene happens in every other adaptation so dw i wasnt spoiled!)

anyway. i absolutely adore your perceptions of cql, op. i am shoving this ask in my mouth bc its just so good. idk how much sense my 9am-no-coffee thoughts make LOL

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rynne · 3 years

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Hi...how are you? If you don't mind me asking, what are your top 5 favorite moments from mdzs novel? And why?

And who are your top 5 favorite characters from mdzs? And why?

Sorry if you've answered this questions before

Hi! I’m doing well, thanks! :)

Hard to narrow down favorites, but I think...

1. WWX’s confession. I just posted some of the stuff I like about it, but another reason I love it is that, in such a complicated novel, it’s just such wholesome happiness. As one of the reblogs to that post put it, WWX is so earnest and sincere here, and they’re both so happy even with the whole hostage situation, and I just love it.

2. Second Siege of the Burial Mounds. I have a big weakness for WWX showing off how smart he is, so I love watching him unravel Su She. I also really appreciate the way it gives us so much insight into how WWX feels about his past -- he’ll accept responsibility for actions that are his, but he won’t actually load himself down with guilt over things that can’t fairly be attributed to him. He doesn’t want forgiveness, but he does want a path forward.

This sequence also shows something I think is important about WWX’s self-sacrificing tendencies, which is that I think fandom tends to ridiculously overstate them. Because the thing is, WWX does turn himself into bait here -- but only after a long battle where everyone who could participated as much as they could. Self-sacrifice is his last resort, not his first impulse. He does it because he’s a hero, not because he doesn’t value himself.

Also, I am a sucker for the heartbreak of the Wens returning to defend him, Wen Ning, and Sizhui.

3. WWX and LWJ’s journey from Cloud Recesses to the Burial Mounds. There are so many cute Wangxian moments here. The bunnies! WWX deliberately and gleefully mimicking one of his only memories of his parents! Hiding in the hay! (I especially love the way the manhua illustrated that because the look on WWX’s face as he pulls the straw from LWJ’s hair holy shit.) WWX’s utterly adorable cottagecore daydreams! Glorious.

4. WWX’s reunion with A-Yuan. Though I have to admit that a big part of my fondness for this comes from how it was filmed in CQL. Most of the time I prefer the novel version of everything about the story, but here I really think CQL gave that scene an emotional resonance that I didn’t quite feel just from reading it, one that I personally found more satisfying. But yes. Wangxian and their son <3.

5. Yi City, minus the flashback. Tbh I don’t care at all about Xue Yang, XXC, SL, or A-Qing, as much sympathy as I have for their story, but WWX and his ducklings! I think this is the first place we really get to see how great a teacher WWX is and how much his students come to love and trust him.

As for favorite characters...this is both easy and hard. Here is the easy version of my top five:

1. WWX

2. WWX

3. WWX

4. WWX

5. LWJ

It’s probably obvious based on my posts that I love WWX the most. Pretty much everyone else is an afterthought. LWJ is next closest, but the thing is, for all the different things I appreciate about his character, my emotional response to him still comes primarily from his connection to WWX. I do still love LWJ -- in particular, I love his character arc, and I get really annoyed at all the takes that turn WWX into an idiot for not realizing LWJ’s feelings, especially in his first life, because LWJ’s struggles with his feelings and how to communicate them are so important to his character and make him a lot more interesting.

But anyway. Excluding WWX and LWJ, here is my top five, in no particular order:

1. Jin Ling. He’s the actual tsundere breaking the cycle of abuse and learning better in this story (not Jiang Cheng). Good for him!

2. Wen Ning. He’s a wonderful foil for JC in being a real brother to WWX. He steps up for WWX every time, and WWX in turn loves him like a brother but is not possessive about him and wants him to find his own path.

3. Wen Qing. I really wish we’d been able to see more of the Burial Mounds Settlement days, because I love what we see of her and her relationship to WWX there. So much potential. And yes, she is a better sister to WWX than JYL was.

4. Nie Huaisang. He may actually be the person I relate to most in the story, because most of the time I too want to just spend time on my hobbies and not do anything resembling work. XD That, plus all his layers of intelligence and love and revenge, make him interesting to me.

5. Lan Jingyi. Mostly because every time he has page-time, I know I’m definitely going to smile and probably going to laugh. He is also evidence that the Lans are not nearly as bad as fandom likes to portray them, because if they were as strict as they could be, Jingyi would not be able to have nearly that amount of...personality.

#asks #thanad-zid #mdzs #mdzs meta

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ouyangzizhensdad · 4 years

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As a mdzs/novel canon reader, how do you feel about the roles of Wen Ning and Wen Qing in mdzs vs cql?

I think one of the most important thing (for me) when thinking about how wn and wq are explored in cql is to remember the following two factors:

1. While the actress denied it, it seems that wq was indeed supposed to be a love interest for wwx in cql before fans made a fuss about it on social media: this is supported by the fact she was introduced as a main character in early talks of the series, the actress got the biggest $$ contract after xz and wyb, we got some leaked photos from set showing scenes that were filmed or were intended to be filmed but didn’t end up in the final cut of the series, and the simple reality that wq’s presence in the story was increased significantly (while her impact on the plot remained the same). Tbh that they chose to cast meng ziyi and introduced (and kept) a frankly bizarre (on a thematic and plot level) romance subplot between jc and her is proof enough for me that she was supposed to be a love interest for wwx (albeit a tragic one).

2. CQL fundamentally modified the role of the Wens within the narrative by changing the whole subplot about modao, which then altered the role of wq and wn to a degree, and with which characters they interacted and when.

For me, these had an impact on the overall quality of the storytelling, particularly in regards to wq and her character (under the cut because I don’t know how to be brief).

WEN QING:

1. Even if she had been instructed by the director to play wq as close to possible to the way she was portrayed in the novel, I don’t think Meng Ziyi could have done it; for me, she doesn’t have the right presence, physicality, etc. to achieve a good performance of wq. Novel wq has such strong boss energy; she is high-ranking officer even if she is removed from the fighting, the best doctor, and someone who was in charge of the yiling supervision office, and she’s constantly snapping at people (I love novel!wq.........). Meng Ziyi just does not manage to embody that powerful energy--she has that female lead type of presence, and it just doesn’t mesh with who wq is.

Wen Ning nodded, somewhat embarrassed, “My sister. She’s really powerful.”

She was indeed powerful.

Wen Qing could be considered a famous cultivator of the QishanWen Sect. She wasn’t a daughter of the QishanWen Sect’s leader, Wen Ruohan, but instead the daughter of one of Wen Ruohan’s cousins. Although they were far cousins, Wen Ruohan had always had a close relationship to this cousin of his. On top of that, Wen Qing was exceptional in the liberal arts and studied medicine as well. She was a talent, and thus she was rather favored by Wen Ruohan. She often followed Wen Ruohan to the banquets of the QishanWen Sect, which was why Wei Wuxian found her face familiar. She was a beauty, after all. He had also heard from somewhere that she had an elder or younger brother. But, perhaps because he wasn’t as talented as Wen Qing, not many people talked about him.

2. In my opinion, making the wq a more active agent in the wen plot also takes away part of what defines her arc and character in the novel, and what she represents as a figure within the conflict. Let’s remember, we are only introduced to wq in the novel after Lotus Pier was burned down and jc lost his core--she is absent until then, and that is the point: she is not involved in the conflict. While morally upright, she is someone who passively benefits from the ills committed by her sect and who only takes calculated risks to help reduce the suffering committed to others. She becomes guilty by association despite never actively hurting others or helping wrh’s cause. It feels more organic and complex than the throne-room!threats we see in cql, and having her carry on missions for wrh.

Wen Qing cut him off, “What the Wen Sect does doesn’t represent what we do. We don’t need to be responsible for the Wen Sect’s wrongdoing. Wei Ying, there’s no need to look at me like that. There’s a beginning to all debts. I’m the office leader of Yiling, but I was ordered to take the position. I’m a medic, an apothecary, I’ve never killed anyone, much less touched the blood of the Jiang Sect.”

It was true. Nobody had heard of any lives lost by Wen Qing’s hands. There were always many cases that people wanted her to take over. It was because Wen Qing was one of the Wen Sect’s people whose way of doing things was actually normal. At times she could even put in a few good words for people in front of Wen Ruohan. Her reputation had always been good.

/////

Lan Xichen responded a moment later. “I have heard of Wen Qing’s name a few of times. I do not remember her having participated in any of the Sunshot Campaign’s crimes.”

“But she’s never stopped them either, “ Nie Mingjue countered.

“Wen Qing was one of Wen RuoHan’s most trusted people, “ said Lan Xichen. “How could she have stopped them?”

Nie Mingjue spoke coldly. “If she responded with only silence and not opposition when the Wen Sect was causing mayhem, it’s the same as indifference. She shouldn’t have been so disillusioned as to hope that she could be treated with respect when the Wen Sect was doing evil and be unwilling to suffer the consequences and pay the price when the Wen Sect was wiped out.”

[...] One of the sect leaders spoke up, “What Nie-zongzhu said is quite right. Besides, Wen Qing is one of Wen RuoHan’s most trusted people. You’re telling me she never participated? Well I don’t buy it. Is there any Wen-gao without a single drop of blood on their hands? Maybe it’s just that we haven’t found out about it yet!”

3. Making wq interact with other characters before the qiongqi path incident also makes their motivations harder to understand. For instance, jc having feelings for wq makes his motivations and actions during the aftermath of the sunshot campaign more muddled, imo? In the novel, instead, jc’s unwillingness to help the wen remnants is used to showcase a foil between jc’s and wwx’s understandings of duty/responsibility:

“You burn this corpse right now and return to them all these leftovers of the Wen Sect. That’s the only way to make the subject die!” As Jiang Cheng spoke, he raised his sword again, preparing to attack.

Wei Wuxian clenched his wrist.

“Are you joking?! If we return Wen Qing and the others to them, they’d meet nothing but a dead end!”

“I doubt you’ll even return all of them. Why do you care what kind of end they meet? A dead end it is, then—what does it have to do with you?!”

Wei Wuxian finally lost his temper. “Jiang Cheng! What- What do you think you’re talking about?! Take it back—don’t make me give you a thrashing! Don’t forget. Who was the one that helped us burn Jiang-shushu’s and Yu-furen’s corpses? Who returned to us the ashes that are in Lotus Pier right now? And who took us in when we were chased after by Wen Chao?!”

Jiang Cheng, “I’m the one who fucking wants to give you a thrashing! Yes, they helped us before, but why in the world don’t you understand that right now any remnant of the Wen Sect is a target of criticism! No matter who they are, with a surname of Wen they have committed a most heinous crime! And those who protect the Wen are at risk of being condemned by everyone! All the people loathe the Wen-dogs so badly that the worse they die the better. Whoever protects them is against the entire world. Nobody would speak for them, and nobody would speak for you either!”

4. Adding more screen time for wq and more interactions with other characters prior to/during the sunshot campaign ends up adding nothing in terms of her arc or her impact on the plot. While wq is a secondary character in the novel, she is crucial to the plot: her skills and her agency shape so many crucial moments and events in mdzs. Take away pretty much any scene with wq in the novel, and the events of the novel have to change. However, when it comes to what has been added in cql to make her more prominent in the series, it does not feel like it brings anything of significance to the plot. In the end, what is the point of the hair comb moment? it never sways jc to help or feel really conflicted over not helping the wen remnants? it never changes anything about the way wq acts? jc doesn’t come to wq’s defense at jinlintai the way lwj does. At best, it just adds to jc’s manpain. In the end, what’s the point of having a cute moment between wq and jyl, except to reassure viewers that wq is a good person and cares for her brother (all things we known in the novel in spite of the absence of this scene). In the end, what is the point of spending screentime with wq looking for the yin iron in the cloud recesses, and wwx being suspicious of her, if anyway lwj and him stumble upon it by chance? If wq were the love interest, it would make more sense to just pad up her screen time in the series, and these moments would probably pay off more. But as it is, it just feels very aimless and even at times confusing.

5. i 100% headcanon novel wq as a lesbian and the fact that they even suggest she might have feelings for jc is an attack on my gay rights ):

WEN NING:

1. Gosh I love wn. I think his role in the novel is so important and i have too much to say to end up saying anything remotely coherent. I also have to say that I love the actor they chose. Of all the casting choices, I’d even say it is the best of the entire series in my opinion. He really captures the essence of wn and he looks so adorable. So cute.

2. Overall, i think cql did not change too much in terms of his arc and characterisation (the shy but fiercely protective person, coming to terms with what he lost, finding wen yuan and reconnecting with his history, finding a path of his own instead of following his sister/wwx). However I do find that some of the interactions are more meaningful in the novel. For example, making wwx and wn’s first interaction happen in the cloud recesses takes away the importance of wwx standing up against wn’s own sect members on their own turf. The fact that wwx and wn see each other more in the CQL verse also undermines the weight of wn’s choice and how significant wwx’s actions and words were to him, since he was ready to go against his sect for someone he’d met once. Once!!!! It says so much about wn and what his life was like--and how much impact wwx’s acts of kindness and care could have. If I let myself I would just end up quoting back most of Poison - part 4.Okay, I will just quote this part:

Red seeped through Wen Qionglin’s face to even the bottom of his ears. There was no need for others to beckon him away; he fled self-consciously. Wei Wuxian chased after him, “Hey, don’t run! Uh… Qionglin-xiong right? Why are you running?”

Hearing his name called from behind him, Wen Qionglin finally stopped. Head hanging low, he turned around. It seemed as though shame rippled from his head to his toes as he stammered, “… I’m sorry.”

“Why are you telling me you’re sorry?”

“You… You recommended me… but I made you lose face…”

“How did it make me lose face? You haven’t really shot in front other people, have you? You were nervous?”

Wen Qionglin nodded. Wei Wuxian continued, “Have some confidence. Let me tell you the truth—you shoot better than everyone in your sect. Out of all of the disciples whom I’ve seen, no more than three people are better in archery than you.”

3. I do wish wn as the ghost general was scarier and more violent in cql, but they tamed all of the horror/violent/gory aspects of the novel so it was to be expected. I just love contrasts.............

#mdzs meta #asks #cql vs mdzs #wen qing #wen ning #Anonymous

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mdzs-tgcf-svsss-fanblog · 5 years

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And another thought that just came to me: In some ways, MDZS is about Lan SiZhui and Jin Ling. Yeah, it focuses mostly on WWX and LWJ, naturally, but a lot of major events happen surrounding them/the present day has a lot to do with the juniors.

And there's the fact in many ways Jin Ling and Lan SiZhui are foils. They're both orphans who lost their parents at a young age, yet they're treated very differently by their peers. SiZhui is popular/well-liked and well-respected, while Jin Ling has no friends, isn't respected/is dismissed by his peers in the Jin sect, and isn't popular. Both are kind-hearted, but SiZhui's gentle and more soft-spoken typically while Jin Ling is more abrasive/blunt/not able to share his true thoughts well. (Which part of that is undoubtadly due to the parenting style differences LWJ and Jiang Cheng have to one another. LWJ probably was gentle/encouraging but allowing SiZhui to make his own mistakes/learn by himself, while Jiang Cheng was louder/rougher/tried to pave the way for Jin Ling more. Both boys were probably spoiled to some extent, but came out differently.)

The novel starts with WWX waking up, yeah, but he immediately zeroes in on Lan SiZhui when things start rolling/out of SiZhui and JingYi far more emphasis is put on SiZhui right off the bat. (Focusing on how good/respectful he is as a disciple, it shows how SiZhui is empathizing with the "lunatic"/it makes his thoughts clear.) It does it some with JingYi too, but far more often with SiZhui. WWX kicking JingYi to protect SiZhui, how SiZhui is the one to pick up on WWX's meanings/why WWX brought up the dominant arms for the dead Mos, how SiZhui is the one to realize that WWX had used demonic cultivation to step in/he seemed to be the only junior to realize that WWX had stepped in at all.

And then on Dafan Mountain the focus is mostly on Jin Ling, slightly more on SiZhui, and JingYi mostly is noted as figuring out that WWX ISNT a lunatic after all/giving information/speaking up in WWX's defense. SiZhui was basically the spokesman of his sect since Lan WangJi didn't want to speak to Jiang Cheng, even if JingYi also made comments. It was SiZhui's sword WWX borrowed to make the rough flute, it was focusing on Jin Ling's actions/thoughts/reactions to knowing that he wasn't a match to the goddess statue. SiZhui also tried to get the other cultivators to not attack Wen Ning, showing he was more clear-minded then the others, while Jin Ling was understandably upset/seething. While JingYi di call out Jiang Cheng about the fact Zidian was ineffective on WWX, showing it wasn't possession, his role wasn't as direct in the rest of it?

And the part at the Nie Saber hall heavily went around Jin Ling, too. There was the fact that Fairy was able to lead LWJ and WWX to the saber hall (granted they would've found it ANYWAY probably), but they found clues thanks to Jin Ling destroying that skeleton and being dragged into the wall and being saved by LWJ and WWX. The mark on Jin Ling's leg that WWX transfered to his own was a invaluable clue that part of the "dear friends" corpse was hidden in the saber hall. And for JC getting the confirmation of WWX being in MXY's body thanks to his reaction to Fairy.

And then the Yi City arc focus goes onto SiZhui and Jin Ling. SiZhui is the one who gets information with Inquiry, while Jin Ling is the one entrusted with awakening WWX from Empathy. They were also the first two to peek at A-Qing (which contrasted their observation skills/the amount of details they noticed.) and they were the ones who helped WWX prepare the congee/clean out the kitchen. Even when they were knocking on the doors, most of the focus was on SiZhui and Jin Ling (while ALSO contrasting their methods/ways of knocking on the doors). And in the inn after Yi City, the narrative made a point of having the two argue about WWX (while also revealing that SiZhui's birth-name is Yuan, which was probably foreshadowing/a hint that he was A-Yuan) and their views, with SiZhui giving way/bowing out of the argument.

And at the point WWX was found out by the rest of the cultivators, Jin Ling was the one to stab WWX. Not Jiang Cheng or one of the others, and even then Jin Ling did it in a moment of panic/distress out of being lied since he'd just started growing close to WWX.

And when the juniors are seen next, it's when they're in the cave in the Burial Mounds. SiZhui is the first one to greet LWJ and WWX (after finally losing his temper and getting into a fist fight). The juniors as a whole are shown to be the most sensible/thinking of the fact that WWX was clearly not the mastermind behind what was happening on the Burial Mounds, and we start getting the hints of SiZhui being A-Yuan moreso with how Granny's corpse reacted to him and how Wen Ning realized who he was, while also showing Jin Ling being torn between liking WWX and hating him/starting the groundwork for Jin Ling forgiving WWX (while also arguing with his uncle).

The scene on the boat with Wen Ning also is mostly about Jin Ling's feelings and shows how even if he and SiZhui are the same (in regards to being orphans) their peers all flock to SiZhui when Jin Ling shoves him over/yells at him, which leads to Jin Ling breaking down (for good reason! The person that killed his father was in front of him, being treated warmly/friendly by a boy who Jin Ling was starting to become friends with, and with other people standing up for him). SiZhui feels guilty over it, of course, but in the end he goes to hang out with Wen Ning over going into the discussion/he gets information from Wen Ning (hearing about his own childhood even if he didn't realize it+sharing stuff LWJ did while raising him).

And then the stuff at the GuanYin temple. WWX was caught because he had to save Jin Ling (who was trying to find him to talk to him! And the fact he got into a argument with his uncle over the fact JC had chased WWX away, while Jin Ling was trying to process things. For a 14-15 year old, Jin Ling was trying to work things through the best that he could.) and he had sacrified the one weapon he had to save his nephew. Jin Ling was a focal point to it all (his parents were killed because of Su She's actions+Jin GuangYao's manipulations, he was put into direct danger by JGY trying to use his life in a attempt to escape, and him trying to bridge the gap between his uncles) but when the other juniors got there Jin Ling wasn't able to bring himself to approach WWX through them all (due to feeling uncomfortable with his own peers. Still. Poor kid.) while SiZhui was the first of the newcomers to reach LWJ and WWX (grabbing onto their sleeves! Which he was the only one to do so. And it focuses on the fact SiZhui regained some of his memories when he was holding Chenqing.) and was basically in the middle of the group.

And then after LWJ and WWX run off to elope, it's SiZhui (And Wen Ning) who see them off basically. (while WWX finally finds out that SiZhui is A-Yuan.), and WWX has hugged both Jin Ling and SiZhui in the last scenes he had with them in the main storyline.

A big part of the two's importance is because they're two of the remaining people WWX has left. Jin Ling is his beloved shijie's child, the boy he had spent time making a beautiful bell for, and the child he had been looking forward to the birth celebration of before things fell apart the rest of the way. SiZhui was the child WWX gave his life to protect, who he had been guarding out of loyalty/gratitude towards Wen Ning and Wen Qing.

I'm not sure how else to articulate my thoughts on it/what to add to it but. It's interesting to think about.

#mdzs #mdzs thoughts #musings #jin ling #lan sizhui #it's basically word vomit that I needed to get down but i'm too exhausted to go into more detail of it/trying to parse my thoughts on it

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