#and i can engage with 'it's fucked up to tell your ex they transed their gender At You' or 'your partner's suicide is not about you' bc yeah

[thedreadvampy]

btw about Neil Gaiman I periodically agree with the 'Neil Gaiman is annoying' stuff bc I feel like both he and Amanda Palmer seem like people who I would go insane stuck in a room with bc we have very different ideas about art and suchlike. and I also do think that the career trajectory he's on lately is cynically redoing his greatest hits and pretending that was the dream all along when it clearly was not. which is at best meh.

having said which

as far as I can tell by far the most common complaint about Neil Gaiman is "Snow, Glass, Apples is problematic/gross/it's got incest and rape and frames the child as the aggressor"

which strikes me as a weird complaint to pull out of a 40 year body of work tbh when that short story is pretty clearly coming from a place of 'how far can I push this'. like you don't have to like the story. I don't really like the story. but it is. a horror story.

like and this is the thing with particularly 90s alt horror right? a lot of the interest is in transgression and sitting in the worst possible perspective and seeing what happens if you pull those strings. like I really like Clive Barker for example but there's a good chunk of his short stories that I'm like I'm not picking up what you're putting down Clive this seems Kinda Off. but that willingness to write some trite or Bad Message horror fiction that doesn't land is imo a side effect of being willing to try writing uncomfortable and unpleasant fiction at all. which is what horror is for, among other things, it's for creating discomfort as a form of catharsis or engagement.

like I am not a huge fan of the type of sex-horror that pops up in a lot of Gaiman's work and other contemporary horror writers - to me I don't find it upsetting or horny it just ends up feeling kind of edgy and tryhard - but I'm also a bit like. it does seem like a lot of people's beef with Neil Gaiman is that In The 90s He Was A Horror Writer

and this approach to Problematic Horror in Snow, Glass, Apples I find kind of microcosmic of how The Discourse often approaches art in this kind of 1:1 way. if you write a story which seems to line up with rape apologia it can only be because you agree with it. if you write a story about transphobia you're a transphobe. if you write a story that makes me genuinely uncomfortable you're attacking me.

but artwork, especially art like horror that's not necessarily trying to provoke enjoyment as its main response, is necessarily hit and miss. and if what you're shooting for is discomfort then whether it works, falls flat or goes too far incredibly depends on your audience. and making good art - as in art that makes its audience think, art that opens the audience up to discomfort and catharsis and sticks with them and changes them - requires the space to experiment and tbh the space to fuck up. like they aren't all going to be winners and they certainly aren't all going to work for you as a singular audience.

personally I don't see the appeal of Snow, Glass, Apples, less cause it's nasty and more cause it's hack. ooh an edgy monstrous version of a fairy tale where there's lots of rape and cannibalism? you're soooo original Neil. but like. that's fine. I don't really vibe with like 70% of Neil Gaiman stuff I've read but I still like Neil Gaiman because the stuff that works for me really works for me.

idk I think there's a lot of folk on this website who shouldn't interact with horror cause they clearly aren't interested in being horrified. that's not everyone who dislikes Snow, Glass, Apples, but it's a real undercurrent to a lot of the criticism and tbh this kinda vibe is shit for art. making standout art What Is Good also requires being ready to make art which stands out for the wrong reasons. sometimes they'll be the same art to different people.

#red said #not to Cancel Culture this but isabelle fall springs to mind in a lot of how folks talk about stuff like this #like she wrote a transgressive piece exploring her own negative feelings about transness and her anger around a transphobic trope #and she made something which i found really resonant and interesting #and she got torn apart for it because it Might From Some Angles Agree With Transphobia #and I'm not making a direct comparison. because i think attack helicopter is a really GOOD story and i think SGA is gratuitous and hack #but that's the thing right? transgression and discomfort and speaking about unpleasant things in an openended way are KEY #to making art that engages directly with your own pains and angers and discomforts #and that's hard to mediate tbh. but it's also very necessary. #i think as well thinking about Gaiman this is also a thought I've often had about Amanda Palmer #who over the years has written a lot of songs about things i find genuinely uncomfortable or offensive. #and i can engage with 'it's fucked up to tell your ex they transed their gender At You' or 'your partner's suicide is not about you' bc yeah #but #you can't celebrate someone for making confessional music then get mad because you don't like everything they confess #if you only take about your socially acceptable thoughts it's not really confessional is it? #if you only talk about discomforting things that people are comfortable hearing about its not really discomforting #and you can only really discern what's Good Transgressive and what's Damaging Transgressive through doing i think #so if you want challenging art you are going to have to get some art which challenges you and you go hmm no i still disagree #is what i think #so yeah you can hate the artwork but when an artist is specifically setting out to make challenging art it's weird to hate them #for making 50 pieces of art you like and 1 you hate

[lesbitchka]

(submission)

I am sending this from a friend’s blog, not my own, because I’m overly anxious and don’t know how submissions work and… if my url was somehow posted with this and the guy I’m talking about found it things wouldn’t be good and I’m jsut too anxious to take that chance on something I don’t know the workings of. I’d appreciate if you had a way to omit my friends url though and answer this anonymously but if you can’t they said it’s okay. I’ll see this because I follow you on my blog. Thank you so much.

So this is a long question and I didn’t want it to get split up because it’s sorta important it’s coherent. Also I’m sorry if it’s not totally relevant, I’m not sure who else I could mention this with.

I recently turned 16, but when this all started, I was 15. I’m also a trans boy. I met a person who identifies as Asexual Demiromantic Gay Trans Demiboy. He was 20. But we were the the same fandom and had a lot of the same ships, so we got to talking and hit it off really well. We became friends outside of fandom pretty quickly. (He actually mostly just won’t talk with me about fandom stuff anymore… like he’ll listen to me but won’t engage on it.)

I came out when I was 12 and started transitioning. My family is really supportive and has helped me tons through everything. I was on testosterone at 14 and was approved for top surgery when I was 15 (and got it a month after my 16th birthday). So, yeah. Really supportive environment.

Needless to say, I find relating to other trans people difficult because I don’t go through a lot of the struggles they do. I used to go to trans social groups in my area but I’d always be singled out if I slipped up in the slightest to give a hint of how supportive my environment was.

I’ve gotten a lot better with this, but a roughly year ago, I wasn’t.

We were talking about attraction one day and I expressed that I would probably only date a cis boy.

And he flipped out.

He had said it was because everyone only liked cis boys. His ex apparently left him for a cis guy. And he said something weird, I don’t remember what.

And then it came out that he liked me, romantically.

Everything has been shit since then because I don’t like him back. I can’t define why, but he always asks and hates on himself, his body and being trans.

I’ve been pressured to give him reasons. I’ve discovered a lot about myself through that. I mean it’s fucked me up a lot, but I’ve come to understand more about my attraction. I’ve tried to explain to him. It’s not because he’s trans. I just don’t like him like that–I’d date a trans boy if I liked him!

But, uh. I also found that I’m probably hypersexual, or, at least, in a relationship, I feel as though I would need to be sexually desired to few valid. So this is obviously a reason I couldn’t date an asexual–asexuality is literally not experiencing sexual attraction. Maybe arousal and all, but not attraction.

I tried to explain this to him recently. And he tried to tell me that’s not how it works. He said he could want me sexually, and then explained that if I bought him strawberry pop tarts he’d hop right into bed with me, if that’s what I wanted. He told me I misunderstood him.

Now he’s constantly fighting with me telling me it isn’t fair. I think he’s trying to convince me I don’t know who I like or not. He’s super important to me, and I feel close to him like I haven’t someone before. But that’s not really special, I have unique attachments to most individuals in my life. I’m also an affectionate person. He tells me I treat him like a boyfriend. I tried to tone down my affection but if I cut it all out it’s just. “Hey!” And he’ll respond with “Hi.” And it’s. Dull and just a couple words, because he won’t talk to me about fandom or anything anymore. Just. How’s your day. I’m going to McDonalds. Etc. and then he gets sad and mad with me.

We obviously have very different views on affection and the likes, but I’ve explained a thousand times I don’t mean anything romantic by it. He just cries and gets mad at me and yells some (we have voice called when this happened).

He keeps asking how I know what i feel for him isn’t romantic attraction.

And he STRICTLY dates trans boys. He hates trans girls with a burning passion, like. If I mention it he flips and goes off. He also hates cis men. (Which I don’t understand, because he loves trans men…?) And he doesn’t hate cis girls but he’s not into them. So, yeah. Only trans boys.

And I just… I don’t know what to do. I don’t understand what it is to be demiromantic. He said it’s taking time to have romantic attraction until you really know someone, but I thought that’s how romantic attraction worked… and also he developed feelings for me in a couple of months, not even half a year, and at that point we mostly talked about cool characters. Nothing deep or emotional or about each other really.

And the whole asexual… but has the capacity to be sexually attracted to me thing, I don’t get that. He says I give him feelings he’s never had before. It’s stressful and I don’t get it and he won’t explain. Is it some part of the MOGAI community, like the concept of “good aces” having sex to make their partner happy…?

I almost feel like he only likes me because I’m a trans guy. It makes me feel fetishized–but like. I’d probably be more comfortable with some cis person expressing their attraction to my transness. Because he seems to think there’s nothing wrong with it at all. And there isn’t, I guess, I mean if you’re only comfy dating trans guys like yourself then I guess you are but? He claims to be demiromantic but “fell” for me so fast and it just makes me really uncomfortable. He focuses on it a lot, too. He still gets mad at me and claims I don’t like him because he doesn’t have a dick, even though I’ve explained countless times that I’ve worked through that and it isn’t about him being trans. I also feel like in his saying “no one wants a trans boy” (about himself apparently) he’s almost… trying to convince me that he’s the only person who will ever want me. But maybe I’m just paranoid? I don’t know…

And then, attraction. I mean… I… think I’d know what romantic attraction feels like. And sexual. Attraction in general. Isn’t it defined by individual? Or is he right? Am I romantically attracted to him and just… don’t understand or something?

I’m afraid that if I ever date he’ll kill himself. If I mention having a crush or even liking the idea of a person who would like, get me daisies, he flips out and won’t speak to me proper and is grumpy for days. He’s said that I’m all he lives for. That he schedules his day around me. That he should just kill himself because he’s “horrible” and I’d be “happier” and he’s “always going to be hung up on a guy (he) can’t have anyways”.

I know he’s genuinely suicidal. But he won’t talk to me about everything else… it only ever comes out if I’m going somewhere with someone who could potentially be a person I might like, or if I comment that there was a cute guy walking down the street or that I like the hair of a boy at school today.

I’m sorry that this is a lot. I didn’t know who to talk to about it–I don’t really have anyone, and a lot of it is based on attraction and asexuality and.. I’ve followed your blog for a while and you’re really knowledgeable and post lots of various resources hat I’ve felt are relevant before. I think I mostly just needed to get this out here… but if you can help me understand anything I’d really appreciate it.

first of all, i’m really glad that you came to me with this. i know it must have taken a lot of courage and you might even feel guilty for doing so - but it’s incredibly important that you reached out

i’m sorry, this is going to be hard to hear, but the best course of action for you and your well-being is to drop that guy and erase him out of your life, asap

now, he’s 20 years old. you’re 16, and were 15 when you met. that is not healthy and is already enough of a red flag (look at this post, and this tag). friendship? sure. there need to be boundaries, but sure. this thing he’s got going on? no way

“I’ve been pressured to give him reasons. I’ve discovered a lot about myself through that. I mean it’s fucked me up a lot, but I’ve come to understand more about my attraction. I’ve tried to explain to him. It’s not because he’s trans. I just don’t like him like that–I’d date a trans boy if I liked him!”

you should not be pressured to give someone reasons for why you won’t date them and the fact that he continues to press the subject just shows that he can’t take “no” for an answer, which also shows a sense of entitlement to other people. another red flag

“He said he could want me sexually, and then explained that if I bought him strawberry pop tarts he’d hop right into bed with me, if that’s what I wanted. He told me I misunderstood him.” 

yeah, no, he’s the one willfully ‘misunderstanding’. it’s not about having sex, but about being wanted sexually. like you said, ace people don’t experience sexual attraction and you’re fully within your rights to not want someone who can’t give you what you need in a relationship. more in this tag

“Now he’s constantly fighting with me telling me it isn’t fair. I think he’s trying to convince me I don’t know who I like or not.”

that’s manipulative and trying to convince you to subscribe to his views and beliefs, no matter how much they contradict yours, to get you to doubt your own perceptions. huge red flag

“He tells me I treat him like a boyfriend.“

again, manipulative. lots of people are affectionate and close with their friends

“I don’t understand what it is to be demiromantic. He said it’s taking time to have romantic attraction until you really know someone, but I thought that’s how romantic attraction worked… and also he developed feelings for me in a couple of months, not even half a year, and at that point we mostly talked“

demiromantic is not in any way a useful label, because everyone experiences attraction differently and saying otherwise suggests that everyone else falls in love at first sight

“And the whole asexual… but has the capacity to be sexually attracted to me thing, I don’t get that. He says I give him feelings he’s never had before. It’s stressful and I don’t get it and he won’t explain. Is it some part of the MOGAI community, like the concept of “good aces” having sex to make their partner happy…?”

i linked the sex positive ace tag above; if he’s ace it’s unhealthy for the both of you to have sex. again, it feels more like he’s trying to manipulate you into dating him (the whole “i’ve never felt like this before” thing) - another red flag

“He still gets mad at me and claims I don’t like him because he doesn’t have a dick, even though I’ve explained countless times that I’ve worked through that and it isn’t about him being trans. I also feel like in his saying “no one wants a trans boy” (about himself apparently) he’s almost… trying to convince me that he’s the only person who will ever want me. But maybe I’m just paranoid? I don’t know…”

he’s willfully ignoring what you’re saying, again, in favour of trying to guilt you into dating him. with what i know of him so far, i’m pretty sure he is playing the “no one else will date you” angle - not only is that not true, but it’s another huge red flag

“Or is he right? Am I romantically attracted to him and just… don’t understand or something?“

no, he’s not right, but he’s been working you and guilt tripping you long enough to make you doubt yourself  

“I’m afraid that if I ever date he’ll kill himself. If I mention having a crush or even liking the idea of a person who would like, get me daisies, he flips out and won’t speak to me proper and is grumpy for days. He’s said that I’m all he lives for. That he schedules his day around me. That he should just kill himself because he’s “horrible” and I’d be “happier” and he’s “always going to be hung up on a guy (he) can’t have anyways”.

I know he’s genuinely suicidal. But he won’t talk to me about everything else… it only ever comes out if I’m going somewhere with someone who could potentially be a person I might like, or if I comment that there was a cute guy walking down the street or that I like the hair of a boy at school today.”

he might be suicidal, he might not, but the fact that it only ever comes up when you mention the prospect of being interested in someone - again - shows that he’s manipulating and guilting you into cutting off other people and just going for him instead. huge, huge red flag

i know it’s hard to let go of someone you care about and who you’ve known for so long, especially when they keep threatening suicide whenever you hint at relationships with other people and you think you’re responsible for their mental well-being - but this is not healthy and the sooner you cut him out of your life, the better

you don’t owe him anything. not a relationship, not even a friendship, and you certainly don’t have to and should not stick around just because he’s guilted you into worrying what he might do if you try to leave. he’s not your responsibility, not to mention he’s a grown fucking adult who should know better than to pull any of this on a minor

the best thing you can do is to block him, change urls and move on. you don’t owe him any explanations, and trying to have a conversation about you needing to get away from him would undoubtedly turn ugly, with yet more guilt tripping you to stay. that will make it even harder to leave and he will be on the lookout for any following signs of you trying to get away

im here for you if you need someone to talk to and please do message me to let me know you’re safe 

#submission #abuse / #im gonna put this into #age gap discourse