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#and even if we get our glorious communist revolution social media will probably not make it to the communes
master-gatherer · 10 months
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It's fascinating how in reaction to the crab day idea half my dashboard is like "Tumblr is awful do not give them one red cent let the motherfucker burn" and the other half is like "let's save the rec center 🙂"
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maximuswolf · 3 years
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A serious discussion about the future of the left. via /r/communism
A serious discussion about the future of the left.
Introduction:
Comrades who share this wonderful discussion forum of r/communism, I want you to take a moment to ask yourselves, what is it that we want? What are we fighting for? I imagine most of us are fighting for abolition of private property, collective ownership over the means of production and distribution, a dissolution of the state as an apparatus for control by the bourgeoisie, democratization of all parts of life, better healthcare and welfare for those who need it, and other such extremely noble aims. I myself believe in all of these very strongly. But I'm afraid that many on the left (unintentionally, I hope) are preventing us from achieving these aims, or even actively taking us backwards, towards fascism. So, in what I'm sure will turn out to be an extremely long essay, I want to take a while to discuss action that we all should be taking. I hope everyone reads this through to the end. If you dislike it, feel free to downvote, but please read till the end regardless.
Part I: The Current State of the Left
This might start out kinda rude, but we on the left really suck. A lot. We seem to view people with other beliefs as inferior, deluded, and misinformed idiots who are only capable of seeing just past the end of their noses and unable to view the big picture. And, on some level, I do understand the impulse. It can be hard to put up with their stupid arguments, blatant mistruths, and denial of facts. But a lot of leftists (I myself am also guilty of this) respond to these with insults, ad hominem and name-calling. This is not effective. As hard as it is to get this through our heads, we need more people. If you hang out only in far-left chatrooms, patting all your Marxist-Leninist comrades on the back at how great it feels to own liberals and progressives, you are the problem. The future of the left lies in those people. If you ask an average person off the road what they think about leftists, they’ll usually respond in one of three ways; They’ll either shrug and say they don’t care, call them whiny snowflakes who only complain, or call them belligerent pricks who won’t shut up. Across all my time on planet earth, even when I talk to people who I know hold similar values to my own, they all think of leftists as these 3 things. This isn’t a group that’s going to attract new people. If anything, they’ll be pushed further away. And we need these people. I know many like to talk about revolution like it’s an excuse for them to not have to engage with liberals and progressives, but you’re delusional if you think that. If today, a revolution began in The United States, do you think it has any chance of succeeding? Revolution can only occur with a large enough power base, either among the people or among armed forces. We don’t have any opportunity to raise forces like the red army, so our power base needs to come from people. Average, milk-toast liberals and progressives. That is where the future of the left is.
Part II: Liberalism and Marxism
Liberalism, that is, the philosophy of the enlightenment, is a philosophy that is incompatible with Marxism. Liberalism came about as a way to justify capitalism, and pushed faux progressivism to legitimise capitalism’s promise of a new, equal society. Hate liberalism as much as you want. But liberals, the people who believe in the ideology, are not incompatible with us. Many share similar ideals of a free and equal world, many do in fact support things like healthcare, women’s rights and greater equality of income. They’re just misinformed. They have been the target of misinformation and propaganda from the day they were born, and so are unable to believe in socialism. They view communism as some sort of demonic entity, trying to take over the foundations of society and enslave everyone. And you insulting them isn’t really helping matters. It’s a sad fact that far-left leaning people, and even socialists, are an extreme minority in most of the world. Most people are moderates. Its just that the people with the most extreme beliefs are also often the loudest, and so are disproportionately represented in media and online circles. This is also why neo-nazis seem so common on the internet-they’re just the ones who shout the most. This isn’t about who’s right or wrong, it’s just a fact that the vast majority of people in every country are moderates, neither far-right nor far-left. And so that’s why we need to go on a crusade against misinformation. Now, let’s go onto Marxism. I won’t demean you by defining Marxism, so let’s get to the point. Don’t. Call Yourself. A Marxist. 99% of the time, if you call yourself a Marxist, people will automatically stop listening. As hard as it is, call yourself a socialist (or some variation thereupon). People have been conditioned to associate Communism with authoritarianism, even though they aren’t at all related. Socialism, while still heavily bastardised, lacks that same association with the regimes of Stalin or Mao, so they’re more palatable to the general public. And again, our aim is to convert the people who are aligned with us socially into being aligned with us politically.
Part III: The Art of Proselytising
To convert the liberals is a difficult task. It can be hard, because a lot of leftists get very invested and personal in defence of their ideology, which can be a good thing in small doses. However, when a person listens to a debate or reads transcripts, do you think they will side with the one who shouts and talks incoherently, or the one who has complete control and is calm and confident? When talking with anyone about politics, stay calm. Calm and collected people are far more attractive to others than brash and loud ones. Even if the opponent’s points are patently bullshit, counter them in a way that doesn’t actively demean them. Wait for them to lost patience and get flustered. Your aim is to try and win over people who may have an open mind. So far has been advice pertaining to formal debate. But how do you chat with liberal friends just in general conversation? Very simple. Don’t demean them. If they talk to you about a liberal policy that they like, support them. Agree. As long as that policy isn’t actively harmful, there is no harm in saying that you like it too. Don’t respond by going, “Heh, this changes nothing. The problem is capitalism, and these policies are just to keep you content enough to stop asking questions.” This actively discourages them from your ideas by putting it in their head that the things they want are fundamentally different from the things you want. Instead you respond with, “yeah man, that’s really cool!” Agree, and then later bring it up how you think that we could expand on that idea and bring it into the realm of something more in line with actual socialism. And when they talk about a liberal policy they dislike, try and show them how a more left-leaning policy would be more in line with their ideal society. I know this is vague and unspecific, but I want this to be as universally applicable as possible. Lastly, know when to stop. If someone seems averse to your ideas, don’t push them into reading Das Kapital or the Communist Manifesto. Just accept it and move along. After all, if you push too hard, they may give up on you completely and we don’t want that. Their will always be more chances in the future to try and convert.
Part IV: Choosing your Targets
This is a short section. Don’t bother trying to convince ethnic nationalists, neo-nazis or other members of the alt-right in informal forums. It’s a fruitless endeavour. You need to accept that they have committed themselves to a belief which holds no evidence to support it, and so no matter what evidence you bring up to dismiss their claims, it wont matter. In formal debates you can engage them and show how their beliefs are false, but just don’t bother otherwise. Anarcho-capitalists are generally beyond help, but not always. A good litmus test is to ask them if they think trans rights should be promoted. If yes, there is still hope. If not, give up. Ancaps take a lot of work to convert though, so you’ll be in for the long haul. Liberals are your prime targets. They have social values which align with our own, we only need them to realise that those social values would be best served under socialism rather than capitalism. Because one thing to remember is that when it comes to pure facts, logic and evidence, we have the right beaten hands down. Its not even a contest. We just need to make ourselves feel more appealing to the liberals.
Part V: Please, Think Realistically
Change will not happen just suddenly. It needs to be systematically created, and we are the ones who need to do it. It can be comforting to think that the revolution will come, it will be glorious and we will henceforth live in a communist utopia. That’s not going to happen. First off, we need enough people for a revolution. As someone who lives in India, I can tell you what the general reaction to the Naxalites is here- fear, paranoia and mistrust. I understand their goals, but unless more people support them, they will be able to do nothing. We need to plant seeds of this support ourselves. It really disturbed me to see leftists unironically planning to vote for Trump because it would show the Democrats that their model wasn’t working (or something like that) while forgetting that by doing so they would be giving power over to a far-right demagogue who would probably just directly execute you if he could. Us being correct doesn’t mean we are above the mundane conflicts of society. We are as much a part of it as anybody else and so we need to be able to put ideals on the backseat to pragmatism. So why do I bring this up? Because arguing for ideas like the abolition of private property will get you nowhere. Most people are going to frightened by such ideas, so instead we need to dial it back. We can still keep our ideals, but when converting people start small. “hey, wouldn’t it be cool if you could visit a hospital without going bankrupt? Or maybe if you had a say in the decisions at your company rather than just listening to your boss all the time? Or maybe if the people at the top weren’t so much richer than everyone else?” Such ideas will seem mundane to us. But to the average person they’re incredibly attractive. Don’t talk in terms of vague, high-minded ideals or all-encompassing social change. Focus on how their life would improve under socialism. The sad truth is, not many people care about the greater good. To get through to such people, you need to show them how they would be better off.
Conclusion: It’s 3:30 am here, I’m really sleepy
We need the support of more people. When talking to them, approach people with earnestness and respect. It leaves a better impression. Don’t be overly humble however. Talk about tangible change that the average person can clearly see would improve their lives. Stop insulting people, and get out there to start actively engaging with others. Lastly, know how to prioritize your enemies. Don’t treat fascists, liberals and soc-dems the same, they all warrant different reactions and by acting like they’re the same, you actively push them closer together.
Good Night Comrades.
Submitted November 13, 2020 at 02:26PM by ARandomAnimeFanNo16 via reddit https://ift.tt/3lumWG5
0 notes
specialchan · 3 years
Text
A serious discussion about the future of the left. via /r/communism
A serious discussion about the future of the left.
Introduction:
Comrades who share this wonderful discussion forum of r/communism, I want you to take a moment to ask yourselves, what is it that we want? What are we fighting for? I imagine most of us are fighting for abolition of private property, collective ownership over the means of production and distribution, a dissolution of the state as an apparatus for control by the bourgeoisie, democratization of all parts of life, better healthcare and welfare for those who need it, and other such extremely noble aims. I myself believe in all of these very strongly. But I'm afraid that many on the left (unintentionally, I hope) are preventing us from achieving these aims, or even actively taking us backwards, towards fascism. So, in what I'm sure will turn out to be an extremely long essay, I want to take a while to discuss action that we all should be taking. I hope everyone reads this through to the end. If you dislike it, feel free to downvote, but please read till the end regardless.
Part I: The Current State of the Left
This might start out kinda rude, but we on the left really suck. A lot. We seem to view people with other beliefs as inferior, deluded, and misinformed idiots who are only capable of seeing just past the end of their noses and unable to view the big picture. And, on some level, I do understand the impulse. It can be hard to put up with their stupid arguments, blatant mistruths, and denial of facts. But a lot of leftists (I myself am also guilty of this) respond to these with insults, ad hominem and name-calling. This is not effective. As hard as it is to get this through our heads, we need more people. If you hang out only in far-left chatrooms, patting all your Marxist-Leninist comrades on the back at how great it feels to own liberals and progressives, you are the problem. The future of the left lies in those people. If you ask an average person off the road what they think about leftists, they’ll usually respond in one of three ways; They’ll either shrug and say they don’t care, call them whiny snowflakes who only complain, or call them belligerent pricks who won’t shut up. Across all my time on planet earth, even when I talk to people who I know hold similar values to my own, they all think of leftists as these 3 things. This isn’t a group that’s going to attract new people. If anything, they’ll be pushed further away. And we need these people. I know many like to talk about revolution like it’s an excuse for them to not have to engage with liberals and progressives, but you’re delusional if you think that. If today, a revolution began in The United States, do you think it has any chance of succeeding? Revolution can only occur with a large enough power base, either among the people or among armed forces. We don’t have any opportunity to raise forces like the red army, so our power base needs to come from people. Average, milk-toast liberals and progressives. That is where the future of the left is.
Part II: Liberalism and Marxism
Liberalism, that is, the philosophy of the enlightenment, is a philosophy that is incompatible with Marxism. Liberalism came about as a way to justify capitalism, and pushed faux progressivism to legitimise capitalism’s promise of a new, equal society. Hate liberalism as much as you want. But liberals, the people who believe in the ideology, are not incompatible with us. Many share similar ideals of a free and equal world, many do in fact support things like healthcare, women’s rights and greater equality of income. They’re just misinformed. They have been the target of misinformation and propaganda from the day they were born, and so are unable to believe in socialism. They view communism as some sort of demonic entity, trying to take over the foundations of society and enslave everyone. And you insulting them isn’t really helping matters. It’s a sad fact that far-left leaning people, and even socialists, are an extreme minority in most of the world. Most people are moderates. Its just that the people with the most extreme beliefs are also often the loudest, and so are disproportionately represented in media and online circles. This is also why neo-nazis seem so common on the internet-they’re just the ones who shout the most. This isn’t about who’s right or wrong, it’s just a fact that the vast majority of people in every country are moderates, neither far-right nor far-left. And so that’s why we need to go on a crusade against misinformation. Now, let’s go onto Marxism. I won’t demean you by defining Marxism, so let’s get to the point. Don’t. Call Yourself. A Marxist. 99% of the time, if you call yourself a Marxist, people will automatically stop listening. As hard as it is, call yourself a socialist (or some variation thereupon). People have been conditioned to associate Communism with authoritarianism, even though they aren’t at all related. Socialism, while still heavily bastardised, lacks that same association with the regimes of Stalin or Mao, so they’re more palatable to the general public. And again, our aim is to convert the people who are aligned with us socially into being aligned with us politically.
Part III: The Art of Proselytising
To convert the liberals is a difficult task. It can be hard, because a lot of leftists get very invested and personal in defence of their ideology, which can be a good thing in small doses. However, when a person listens to a debate or reads transcripts, do you think they will side with the one who shouts and talks incoherently, or the one who has complete control and is calm and confident? When talking with anyone about politics, stay calm. Calm and collected people are far more attractive to others than brash and loud ones. Even if the opponent’s points are patently bullshit, counter them in a way that doesn’t actively demean them. Wait for them to lost patience and get flustered. Your aim is to try and win over people who may have an open mind. So far has been advice pertaining to formal debate. But how do you chat with liberal friends just in general conversation? Very simple. Don’t demean them. If they talk to you about a liberal policy that they like, support them. Agree. As long as that policy isn’t actively harmful, there is no harm in saying that you like it too. Don’t respond by going, “Heh, this changes nothing. The problem is capitalism, and these policies are just to keep you content enough to stop asking questions.” This actively discourages them from your ideas by putting it in their head that the things they want are fundamentally different from the things you want. Instead you respond with, “yeah man, that’s really cool!” Agree, and then later bring it up how you think that we could expand on that idea and bring it into the realm of something more in line with actual socialism. And when they talk about a liberal policy they dislike, try and show them how a more left-leaning policy would be more in line with their ideal society. I know this is vague and unspecific, but I want this to be as universally applicable as possible. Lastly, know when to stop. If someone seems averse to your ideas, don’t push them into reading Das Kapital or the Communist Manifesto. Just accept it and move along. After all, if you push too hard, they may give up on you completely and we don’t want that. Their will always be more chances in the future to try and convert.
Part IV: Choosing your Targets
This is a short section. Don’t bother trying to convince ethnic nationalists, neo-nazis or other members of the alt-right in informal forums. It’s a fruitless endeavour. You need to accept that they have committed themselves to a belief which holds no evidence to support it, and so no matter what evidence you bring up to dismiss their claims, it wont matter. In formal debates you can engage them and show how their beliefs are false, but just don’t bother otherwise. Anarcho-capitalists are generally beyond help, but not always. A good litmus test is to ask them if they think trans rights should be promoted. If yes, there is still hope. If not, give up. Ancaps take a lot of work to convert though, so you’ll be in for the long haul. Liberals are your prime targets. They have social values which align with our own, we only need them to realise that those social values would be best served under socialism rather than capitalism. Because one thing to remember is that when it comes to pure facts, logic and evidence, we have the right beaten hands down. Its not even a contest. We just need to make ourselves feel more appealing to the liberals.
Part V: Please, Think Realistically
Change will not happen just suddenly. It needs to be systematically created, and we are the ones who need to do it. It can be comforting to think that the revolution will come, it will be glorious and we will henceforth live in a communist utopia. That’s not going to happen. First off, we need enough people for a revolution. As someone who lives in India, I can tell you what the general reaction to the Naxalites is here- fear, paranoia and mistrust. I understand their goals, but unless more people support them, they will be able to do nothing. We need to plant seeds of this support ourselves. It really disturbed me to see leftists unironically planning to vote for Trump because it would show the Democrats that their model wasn’t working (or something like that) while forgetting that by doing so they would be giving power over to a far-right demagogue who would probably just directly execute you if he could. Us being correct doesn’t mean we are above the mundane conflicts of society. We are as much a part of it as anybody else and so we need to be able to put ideals on the backseat to pragmatism. So why do I bring this up? Because arguing for ideas like the abolition of private property will get you nowhere. Most people are going to frightened by such ideas, so instead we need to dial it back. We can still keep our ideals, but when converting people start small. “hey, wouldn’t it be cool if you could visit a hospital without going bankrupt? Or maybe if you had a say in the decisions at your company rather than just listening to your boss all the time? Or maybe if the people at the top weren’t so much richer than everyone else?” Such ideas will seem mundane to us. But to the average person they’re incredibly attractive. Don’t talk in terms of vague, high-minded ideals or all-encompassing social change. Focus on how their life would improve under socialism. The sad truth is, not many people care about the greater good. To get through to such people, you need to show them how they would be better off.
Conclusion: It’s 3:30 am here, I’m really sleepy
We need the support of more people. When talking to them, approach people with earnestness and respect. It leaves a better impression. Don’t be overly humble however. Talk about tangible change that the average person can clearly see would improve their lives. Stop insulting people, and get out there to start actively engaging with others. Lastly, know how to prioritize your enemies. Don’t treat fascists, liberals and soc-dems the same, they all warrant different reactions and by acting like they’re the same, you actively push them closer together.
Good Night Comrades.
Submitted November 13, 2020 at 02:26PM by ARandomAnimeFanNo16 via reddit https://ift.tt/3lumWG5
0 notes