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suffarustuffaru · 8 months

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my feelings on certain otto [redacted] flags in arc 8 👍

heyyy so this is gonna have major spoilers so ill put it under the cut 👍👍 again, this is all my opinion so youre perfectly welcome to disagree <3

ok so. i dont know if this is controversial to say or not but i dont think otto should actually permadie. instead, i think that he should have a fakeout death (also you know, deaths that get reversed by rbd if you want to go that route too). but not a PERMANENT one.

and ok i know anyone whos looked at my blog content lately would probably be like “oh you dont want him to die for real because hes one of your favorite characters ever???” and like no yeah, but its not that im opposed to punishing my favorites. im opposed to otto permadying because i feel like him permadying would be spitting on the purpose of both his character and certain themes in rezero.

otto is a very sacrificial person. hes a lot like subaru—he is willing to die for his loved ones. he would sacrifice anything, including himself. all of ottos deaths in rezero so far are reflected in that. he dies in arc 3 because he goes back to save subaru after pushing him out of the wagon in the white whale loop but he dies on the way back. he dies in arc 4 because he pushes subaru out of the way and gets killed by garfiel. otto writes a suicide note in arc 4 before confronting garfiel because hes perfectly willing to die for subaru. ottos been going on a darker path now, because now we know his absolute sacrificial loyalty extends to letting entire countries die, letting people subaru cares about die (louis/spica), and opposing subaru to the point where otto deems it his “reason for being”—aka his reason to be in vollachia, his reason to be in the emilia camp, and his reason to exist and live. otto is set up for a collision course with subaru, and this wont be ending well for him.

ottos faced consequences for his actions in the past—when him bringing the tome into priestella caused the siege, he was severely injured and left bedridden. this was a personal consequence for his actions there. but he hasnt faced any lasting consequences yet, especially when hes fully convinced that he himself knows whats best and is doing the “right” thing, and so hes perfectly set up to have lasting consequences at some point in the future. hes the perfect candidate for a permadeath, even—the arc 7 side stories brought him closure to the plot point of him being exiled from his hometown, and hes someone whos death will create ripple effects from his family and marone (who’ve featured in various side stories as well), the emilia camp (both as a friend and internal affairs minister), and subaru most of all (who, well, has rbd and is determined to save everyone, as we know, and subaru is aware of the possibility of otto ending up like chisha).

but i still have problems with otto dying permanently.

otto permadying punishes everyone around him more than it punishes HIM, the latter of which has been the buildup for his entire arc. otto permadying would only really have that as a narrative purpose—punishing the people otto cares about, particularly subaru. thats ALL that would be accomplished out of an otto permadeath when a fakeout death would not only still get the emotional impact across but also be a better writing choice in general.

as ive said, otto is prone to sacrifice. otto is prone to self-sacrifice on top of that. he always has been since his debut in arc 3. the way hes most likely to die is and always has been through self-sacrifice, especially for subaru, and especially since ottos death flags are a parallel to chisha (who died to save vincent). otto also parallels subaru a lot. more specifically, his current arc follows similar beats to arc 4 subaru or even greed if subaru - otto is, frankly, a control freak who thinks he knows best, refuses help from anyone else, and is self-destructive. but subaru gets called out by the narrative in arc 4 for going down this path, and greed if shows the complete consquences of this (aka - greedbaru ends up dehumanizing everyone, including himself, and tramples over other people's free will). so why is subaru allowed to learn the value of his life and continue trying to grapple with that lesson over the next couple arcs while ottos arc goes down the same path as subaru's but has the potential to end up with him ultimately dying?

then again - yeah, subarus the main character. and yeah, otto permadying wraps up his arc and character in a nice little bow. it's had a lot of buildup and would be a very perfect tragic character arc for him. however it is 1. i personally find this to be the more boring choice in a series where characters can die and come back to life, especially for a crucial side character to subaru like otto and 2. this is the more straightforward predictable choice given the Numerous Obvious Hints that something bad will happen to otto, namely permadeath, and 3. i think that the amount of characters being fridged for subarus character development should be kept to a minimum. we've already seen this with rem being gluttonyed. and being fridged for subaru's character development is something that otto would be very fine and happy with, so again, this is punishing everyone around him more than its punishing otto. ottos character arc buildup does suggest that he'll have to face consequences eventually. him permadying is not the most interesting narrative consequence that could happen imo, and given his parallels to subaru, i feel that this would not serve as a reflection of how otto is a dark parallel to subaru. otto permadying would be less a reflection and a warning to subaru and more so just otto winning over subaru in a story that supports subaru choosing companionship and trying to save everyone.

"what do you mean 'otto winning over subaru'?" otto is, again, a dark mirror to subaru. otto values his loved ones over everyone else, and he is willing to pay any price to save his loved ones. he is willing to destroy everyone else for their sake, and in arc 8, he has always tried to choose the more ruthlessly logical and practical choice over the morally right one that subaru embodies. otto goes nope, lets leave vollachia for dead but only take the people subaru cares about while subaru insists on saving everyone, as he always has tried to do since ARC 1. ottos even warned subaru in arc 8 - what happens if someone very close to subaru, like anyone in the emilia camp, gets hurt or dies all because they decided to stay in vollachia? otto permadying, especially as a result of the vollachia conflict, proves him right all along. that they shouldve chosen the more practical option over the morally right one. which i feel that would kind of miss the whole point of the STORY ITSELF supporting subaru trying to save everyone while holding onto hope and stayed determined since, again, ARC 1.

"but subaru needs to learn that he cant save everyone, and otto permadying would be a good way to show this." yeah. thats true. subaru needs to learn that he cant forgive and redeem everyone, subaru needs to learn that some things are just unavoidable, and that some things cant be forgiven. otto is very against subarus ideology to the point where hes decided his whole reason for being is to be against subaru. otto dying is very fitting, and if he does permadie, he'd represent the friend and loved one that you cant save - the friend that you try to help, refuses your help, and then ends up destroying themselves. its a very realistic, human thing. but 1. again, i think characters being fridged for subaru should be kept to a minimum bc the whole point of rezero is that they are ALL people with their own lives and 2. again, ottos parallels to subaru make this a little. odd, for lack of a better term. 3. subaru has other chances to learn that he cant save everyone, because ultimately the otto subaru conflict needs a middle ground.

so 1. about fridging characters for subarus development. again, its not as if you cant kill or hurt characters for another character. you can still do this. but i think this should be kept to a minimum - or at least have more than just "subaru will learn a lesson from this" as the narrative purpose behind it. subaru over the course of the entire main route learns that the people around him are just that - PEOPLE. not npcs or anything like that. and now once we get to arc 8, he has a lot of empathy for others. hes quick to forgive, especially because hes seen so many people at both their worst and best, and many of the worst times happened in timelines that no longer exist ergo those people are no longer those people. this is especially poignant in a series with so many damn side stories and side characters each with their own complicated lore; these are people. they still have lives outside of subaru. fridging characters for subarus development, i think, kind of undermines this if thats the ONLY reason youre gonna kill or hurt them.

especially when it comes to permadeath. it isnt a writing choice you can make lightly - especially in a series where, again, characters die and come back. so 2. given how much otto parallels subaru and his perpetual struggle with valuing life and valuing himself, neither of which otto values unless its his loved ones (and even then otto is willing to emotionally devastate them if it means theyre safe), i think an otto permadeath would kind of. undermine subarus struggle in that sense, imo - because otto is struggling with almost the EXACT SAME THING.

would it be interesting if subaru has to see otto end up permanently dying for similar reasons that subaru often dies for? would it be interesting if subaru has to see otto destroying himself in ways that hit a little too close to home? yeah. it would. and it WOULD continue that ongoing motif of otto mirroring subaru in the darkest ways. subaru has to look at otto and see not just himself, but see that he could end up like otto. but i think that this is ALREADY happening. subaru seeing the parallels with him and otto will happen, if it hasnt already, and it sure can happen without killing otto permanently. if otto tries to sacrifice himself and fails to do so, subaru can still see this and be impacted by it. if a fake otto death happens, subaru will still be destroyed by it. and of course, eventually subarus bound to figure out ottos thoughts and plans regarding louis/spica, along with everything else going on in ottos brain right now. theres no need to kill otto for good when all of the emotional weight behind it is still possible in many other ways without undermining subarus character development - because otto is going through very similar character development. and again, otto would be HAPPY to die for subarus sake. calling out subaru while letting otto do the same thing as subaru would feel a bit. odd. to me.

and 3. yeah. subaru has other chances to learn that he cant save everyone. he has multiple chances, in fact, and this already started with rem being gluttonyed at the end of arc 3/start of arc 4 (along with injuries that occurred in the white whale fight + crusch being gluttonyed). subaru learned that sometimes terrible things can happen and rbd wont be able to reverse it because his save point updated to AFTER it happened, and rem was a good example of this because she was the person he was closest to at the time. this continues on later, too - the injuries that happen in priestella, for one (such as the juukuliuses being gluttonyed, the dragon blood, numerous citizens, etc), along with subaru having to face this in vollachia when he tries to pull off his bloodless sieges and avoid as many citizen casualties as possible. or when he thinks about if todd can be redeemed only for todd to continue proving him wrong again and again. and this is on top of all the other people subaru befriends in vollachia, of course.

"but subaru needs a PERMANENT consequence." well, theres also the fact that subarus trying to save 50 million people, aka the entire population of vollachia right now, which is very much a herculean task. if he manages to save almost everyone but some citizens die, this would still get the point across. and if you need a bigger, more personal consequence to subaru than that - louis/spica is RIGHT THERE.

the current conflict over spica is already sowing the seeds for this, because this is a lasting, permanent conflict. people like julius and otto want spica dead and acknowledge that, given the amount of people she's hurt, that is the most likely scenario for her. people like the rest of the emilia camp acknowledge that spica is guilty, but that its difficult to punish her given her mental state right now and the fact that subaru and rem care about her. meanwhile subaru and rem themselves care for spica like a daughter and dont want her to be hurt or punished in any way. that being said, the louis/spica conflict - again, needs some kind of solution, and i dont think letting louis/spica scot-free is the right solution here from a writing perspective.

we already get robbed of an arc from louis in the sense that after she fucked around and found out (ie: experienced rbd for herself after messing with subaru), by start of arc 7 she just. became mostly a blank slate. of course its understandable that shes traumatized after experiencing rbd, but it is also kind of. a bummer. that we dont get an arc where she actually grows and changes gradually she just goes from Point A (pre-arc 7) to Point B (now having the mind of a toddler in arc 7+), but there is a slight intrigue to her now being a blank slate. how do you reconcile her past actions and past self with who she is now? is she still capable of doing those things she did before - is the person she was still in there? because you know, since she cant really communicate properly its hard to understand her straightforwardly too. but i dont think that louis should get off the hook - unlike many other people subaru has forgiven, she didnt grow. her past self basically got erased. and its not like all those people whove done things in other timelines that they wouldnt do now - things that ultimately only subaru was affected by because hes the one who knows and hes forgiven them of course. but louis? subaru and rem arent the only ones whove been hurt by her, theres SO MANY others whove been affected by louis and gluttony in general. every one of them has a say in what happens to louis, and her getting no consequences kind of misses the point.

that and. well, subaru can learn that he cant save everyone because 1. he is forgetting that he is not the only gluttony victim here ergo he is not the only one who has a say in what happens to louis and 2. if he sides with louis/spica over everyone else, this is going to have disastrous consequences for him. not just in the sense that you know, this is causing friction with his friends - and not even only in the sense that thisll cause a TON of uproar if this gets out publicly because again, a lot of people have been affected by gluttony - but also because theres the question of if that past louis is still there. or what happens if louis gluttonies someone on accident? or on purpose? can subaru still really side with her then? can he really save her when theres a LOT that shes done? and if someone like otto manages to kill louis and subaru is prevented from rbding - hes still going to be absolutely destroyed emotionally. spica is not freed from consequences just because subarus claimed her as his. and subaru is not freed from consequences after deciding to choose spica over many of his friends (julius is a BIG one, because subaru of all people knows how much julius - and joshua - were fucked over by gluttony). subaru cant save everyone. he has to learn that eventually, and spica is somewhere to start.

that being said, again, i dont want otto to win either when it comes to the vollachia arc in general. his habit of keeping secrets and doing things behind other people's backs and fading into the background whenever it suits him has gone on for a while, and he NEEDS to be called out for it. subaru and otto's moral dilemma conflict just needs to have a middle ground of some kind, and i really dont want ottos ruthless pragmatism to be the end all be all. but i also dont think subaru should win at EVERYTHING either, because his idealism needs to be reeled back a tiny bit. as it is in vollachia rn, its not sustainable and its not realistic. rezero is not a children's story about how no one dies and everyone's friends in the end, but it damn sure tries to be with its main route in the sense that the point is that you TRY to do that to the best of your ability. but if you cant - if youve exhausted all other possibilities and theres no other choice - then you just cant. the point isnt that you give up and abandon people to suffer and die. the point isnt that you hurt people on purpose either. the point isnt that you try to save EVERYONE even to everyones detriment. the point isnt that you try to be perfect and completely flawless at all times too, because thats not possible.

the point is that you do your best, try to save as many as you can, and thats enough.

"ok so if otto isnt permadying then how is he gonna get punished by his hubris???" easy. do EVERYTHING to hurt him shy of actually killing him permanently. that and like - if he decides to pull some shit similar to chisha and make a whole plan to sacrifice himself for subaru, but then he still lives afterwards... what do you do now? how do you live on now? thatd be more mortifying to him - living on and being emotionally vulnerable with everyone around him after planning to die - than ACTUALLY DYING. living and knowing all his loved ones see him as who he is in all his entirety - the good and bad and the really ugly - would, again, be a worse consequence for him than DYING. make him get close to death and then yank him back and youd get more interesting results than just straightforwardly killing him. because hes been planning for this since that time he wrote a suicide note in arc 4. if subaru doesnt get off the hook for this behavior, then otto narratively shouldnt.

therefore a fakeout death for otto would still get all the emotional weight and narrative punishment that a real death would, complete with being able to see the effect this has on subaru + ottos other loved ones. a fakeout death would be the perfect middle ground between a permadeath + letting otto live. and when otto comes back, he’ll still have to face consequences for his actions, including having to learn how to live for his loved ones, not die and sacrifice for them.

#rezero #natsuki subaru #otto suwen #louis arneb #arc 8 spoilers #i feel very strongly on this subject aljsdfljs i just think that the otto flags being real would be the LEAST interesting option here. and #dont see many other people talking about the pros and cons of that actually happening - just that its likely to happen - and from a writing #perspective it makes me a little salty bc imo i think it kinda undermines some things flajsldfj. im not that big of a lore nerd #unless it comes to Character Arcs. and so i feel very strongly on this hah

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