#Azai Hisamasa

[odaclan]

The Nobunaga skull cups story debunked, again

A good while ago, I posted a debunking of the story that said Azai and Asakura’s skulls were turned into sake cups. I claimed that the origin of this narrative is actually the Azai Sandaiki, and this is all dubious because it’s a text that is at best considered more of a compilation of “folklore” rather than a legitimate chronicle.

Well, as it were, the Japanese government has a digitization of "Collection of Historical Texts” 史籍集覧 compiled by one Kondou Heijou 近藤瓶城. Volume 6′s index says that it contains the whole compilation of Azai Sandaiki, so I decided to have a look at it myself to see if the skull cup story is indeed from there.

It was not.

The Azai Sandaiki text actually literally just says the exact same thing as the Shinchoukouki. The segment I marked in red says “Nagamasa and Yoshikage’s heads were stripped of flesh and lacquered” (hence, skulls), and the segment I marked in blue says “[the skulls] were presented alongside the sake cups during New Year celebrations with the daimyou at Azuchi”. There’s nothing about the skulls actually being the cups.

I did another search online to see if anyone managed to identify other references, but as it turns out, the articles that made the claims mostly links to Wikipedia with a time stamp of 2021. That claim about the Azai Sandaiki has since been removed in the live page (probably by people who double-checked the same book). The text now simply says that the skull cups story is a myth, and cites no origin of the myth.

That means Shiba Ryoutarou’s Koumyou ga Tsuji novel is now the sole oldest identifiable source of this skull sake cup story. If there is no older chronicle or historical text that Shiba copied from, then this is all just wholesale fiction.

It’s possible that the archaic phrasing might have caused Shiba to misunderstand what was going on here. Or perhaps, he purposely twisted the original historical text to fit his novel’s narrative. There’s nothing wrong in him taking artistic liberties, of course, since he’s just writing a novel. The fault lies in the people who then paraded around this narrative as historical fact.

If Shiba Ryutarou made it up for his novel, then the whole narrative about skull cups is all garbage, and has not even a shred of historical value (Edo period folktales at least has some possibility being true, we just don’t always know for sure)

#oda nobunaga #Azai Nagamasa #Asakura Yoshikage #Sengoku Fake News #azai sandai #Azai Hisamasa #sengoku #sengoku era #sengoku jidai #sengoku period #japanese history #research

[tragedestined-a]

Headcanons about Nagamasa's Parents !

Nagamasa's mother —– Ono-dono ( 小野殿 ) / Ako ( 阿古 )

She’s originally from the Iguchi family. Her father (Iguchi Keigen) was the retainer and right-hand man of Hisamasa’s father (Azai Sukemasa), so it was natural that Ako and Hisamasa were married, given the friendship between their fathers and to keep the ties between their two clans strong.

Ako married Hisamasa when she was 14-15 years old, and when Hisamasa was 15-16 years old.

She had her first daughter (later known as Kyogoku Maria) a couple years after getting married.

Ako has a good relationship with Hisamasa’s eldest illegitimate daughter / Sukemasa’s adopted daughter Aku ( 阿久 ) / Shoankenkyu ( 昌安見久尼 ). Since they’re only nine years apart in age, Ako views Aku as something akin to a younger sister.

She also has an older brother, two younger sisters, and one younger brother who are related to her by blood?

As a teenager / young adult, Ako had a very positive and somewhat easily excited personality, but she was also very sheltered and naïve about some things.

Ako quickly developed romantic feelings for Hisamasa when she first married him. When she looks back on that time now, she realizes this was mostly just her being excited to be married (and to be the first daughter in her family to be married).

Several years of being a hostage and raising Saruyashamaru (little Nagamasa) all by herself forced her to mature quickly and learn to always be on the lookout for danger. She returns to the Azai as a cautious, wise-beyond-her-years woman, although she still retains some of her optimism.

Ako can’t help but wonder whether she could’ve curbed Maria’s cruel / selfish tendencies if she had been there to guide her when she was growing up.

Ako’s strongest bond is with Nagamasa, and Nagamasa is in turn very close to his mother, since the two of them only had each other to rely on during their time as hostages. Because of this, Ako is probably the only person in the Azai clan who has even a suspicion that Nagamasa’s time as a hostage was traumatic for him. Even though he doesn’t “act traumatized”, she believes that if he hadn’t been a hostage, his personality probably would’ve been very different. She worries about how much his time as a hostage has affected him and wonders whether she could’ve done more to protect him.

Ako currently has mixed feelings towards Hisamasa. Being a hostage for eight years (and, at times, fearing for her life and/or her son’s life) was a traumatic experience for her and she’ll probably never completely forgive Hisamasa for giving her to the Rokkaku as a hostage. In addition, she’s very hurt that he slept around during this time. However, Ako also wonders if Nagamasa’s actions towards Hisamasa (forcing him to retire and exiling him) were too harsh. In the end, though, she’s fine with the status quo of Nagamasa being in charge and Hisamasa being exiled. Ako could end up befriending Hisamasa, but there’s no chance that she’d fall in love with him again.

Ako was initially nervous about Nagamasa getting married, both because she had a feeling that he couldn’t deal with a loveless political marriage like she could, and because she was worried that he’d be too harsh on his future wife and scare her off. But she’s glad to see that a warm, loving relationship is slowly but surely blossoming between Oichi and Nagamasa.

Ako has interacted with Oichi in-person several times since Nagamasa’s marriage. She sees her younger self in Oichi a little bit, and tries to encourage her to be more confident and more open about her emotions with Nagamasa. However, Oichi’s Dark Hands and the “Demon King” side of Oichi’s personality seriously creep Ako out. XD So she mostly interacts with Oichi as a penpal, and the two of them send letters to each other on a regular basis.

Nagamasa built her a place specifically for her to live called 阿古の邸 (Ako’s Residence?), which is where she lives most of the time. It’s a quiet, peaceful place where her servants wait on her and treat her like she’s the owner of the residence, and because of this, she’s really mellowed out and come to peace with a lot of what’s happened to her. Despite only being in her late 30s / early 40s, she kind of lives and acts like a grandma now. XD

Ako ends up meeting a very terrible end. During the same month that Nagamasa dies (but before he dies), Ako gets captured by the Oda army. Over the course of a few days, each of her fingers are cut off, and then she dies.

Nagamasa's father —– Azai Hisamasa ( 浅井久政 )

Eldest son of Azai Sukemasa and the second-generation head of the Azai family.

Hisamasa is supposedly a legitimate child of his father Sukemasa, but there have been rumors ever since he was young that he’s the son of Sukemasa’s concubine. These rumors have followed him into adulthood.

Has four younger half-brothers (if the rumors are to be believed, one is his full brother), three younger sisters (half-sisters?), and two younger half-sisters.

Hisamasa resents his father for multiple reasons, some of which are obvious and others which are less so. One reason is that others often compare him to his father, Sukemasa, and consider him to be cowardly and foolish while they consider his father to be a brave, skilled warrior. He feels that they tend to ignore the talents he does have while putting his father on a pedestal. Another reason is that Sukemasa was tough on Hisamasa, since he was the eldest son and Sukemasa wanted him to be the Azai clan’s next leader. A third reason is that Sukemasa refused to confirm who Hisamasa’s birth mother actually is, even to his own son. The circumstances of Aku’s conception and birth also cause Hisamasa to bear a grudge against his father.

As a young man, Hisamasa seems like a good-natured and friendly young man, if a bit shy. However, on the inside, he’s very stressed and bears grudges against his father and some of his father’s men. 

Sukemasa died when Hisamasa was 16 years old, not long after Hisamasa married Ako. When Sukemasa died, Hisamasa had trouble inheriting the title of clan leader. Sukemasa’s son-in-law, along with the Kyogoku clan, tried to start a rebellion so that Sukemasa’s son-in-law could inherit the position instead. However, Hisamasa and his retainers talked him out of it.

As he grows up (and especially after Sukemasa’s death), Hisamasa loses the shyness and becomes very extroverted. To deal with his stress, he invests himself in culture and the arts —– Noh theater, renga, falconry, etc. He’s interested in trying all sorts of things!

However, no matter how many years pass, Hisamasa has little aptitude for fighting and battle strategy. His true talents lie in domestic policy and diplomacy —– he can be a very smooth talker and somewhat manipulative, especially in his later years. Even while he’s “retired” and exiled on Chikibu Island, he still exerts some influence over the Azai clan.

Sending his wife as a hostage to the Rokkaku clan was not a decision he took lightly, and it pained him deeply to make it. However, he feels that if he hadn’t done it, the leader of the Rokkaku clan would have become upset and crushed the Azai clan.

Although he tries to hide it, Hisamasa is the sort of person who constantly needs positive attention from others so that he can feel okay about himself. During the time Ako was a hostage, with Ako gone and his retainers starting to turn against him, Hisamasa started sleeping around, and that’s how Nagamasa’s younger half-brother Masamoto was born.

Hisamasa tried to rekindle his relationship with Ako when she returned, but she gave him the cold shoulder when she learned about Masamoto’s birth. To this day he’s still hoping he can win her back, and he sends her love letters every few months. She never responds back.

Hisamasa’s relationship with Nagamasa is strained at best. However, while Nagamasa hates him for being a weak leader and forcing Nagamasa and his mother to be hostages, Hisamasa’s only somewhat annoyed with his eldest son for usurping his title of clan leader. Hisamasa doesn’t understand why Nagamasa hates him so much, and he feels that Nagamasa should think more kindly of him since Hisamasa wasn’t anywhere near as hard on Nagamasa as Sukemasa was on him.

In general, Hisamasa cares about his children equally and treats them all quite warmly, showing them physical affection (e.g. hugs, headpats, etc.) and always doing his best to cheer them on at whatever they’re doing and compliment them. 

That having been said, Maria is Hisamasa’s favorite child, and he’s doted on her ever since she was young. XD As Maria has grown up and become more independent (and less reliant on him for basic needs and emotional support), though, their relationship is starting to show signs of strain.

Unfortunately, Hisamasa has never been able to feel any fondness for his eldest daughter, Aku, due to the circumstances of her conception and birth. When she was first born, he could hardly bring himself to be in the same room as her and her mother. However, he’s always felt guilty about feeling so detached from / disgusted by Aku, because he knows those feelings stem from how he feels about her mother and that Aku has done nothing to deserve that from him. After being exiled to Chikubu Island, Hisamasa’s loneliness and guilt caught up with him, and he started reaching out to Aku for the first time via a letter. To his surprise, Aku enthusiastically wrote him back, and the two of them became penpals.

Hisamasa has never actually met Oichi. But back when Nagamasa first married her, Hisamasa sent him a letter simultaneously congratulating him for marrying the most beautiful woman in the land and condemning his decision to ally with the Oda. Nagamasa never replied back.

Hisamasa hates Nobunaga and feels that Nagamasa’s decision to ally with him is one of the worst decisions he’s ever made. Hisamasa regularly corresponds with some of the older Azai retainers he knows who also dislike Nobunaga to try to sabotage Nagamasa’s alliance with the Oda.

Nagamasa grudgingly lets Hisamasa back into Odani Castle so he can have him help fight against Nobunaga. However, during the attack on Odani Castle, once the Azai start losing, Hisamasa sees the writing on the wall and commits seppuku.

#OOC #long post #Nagamasa│Headcanons #Oichi│Headcanons #torture tw #body horror tw #death tw #suicide tw #(( I like the contrast of Hisamasa being a hot mess while Nagamasa's always 500% composed and prim and proper. XD)) #(( Also--Nagamasa's parents' relationship is basically: )) #(( Ako: Do I feel bad about Hisamasa's exile? Yes. But do I feel bad enough to do something about it? No. :) )) #(( Hisamasa to Ako: *while trying to exert his influence on the Azai clan* Baby come back...I'm so lonelyyyy... :'( ))

[kiicho]

fun fact: yoshitatsu’s wife was actually an adopted daughter of azai hisamasa who is the father of azai nagamasa. so he basically married azai nagamasa’s sister. which i guess also makes nagamasa kichō’s brother-in-law. nagamasa’s also nobu’s brother-in-law since he married oichi.

 so .............. i guess that actually makes kichō and chacha related too huh ???? actually that makes her related to like ... well a lot of peopple.

#εїз *ﾟ / ❝ naur not this one ❞ ( ooc. ) #( i'm finding out more and more that lots of people were in fact related to each other )

[scoobydoojedi]

Asai Clan

The Asai's origins are obscure but they may have been descended from the Ôgimachi, a kuge family. The Asai were formerly retainers of the Kyôgoku and rebelled against that house in 1516. They struggled to expand their domain in Ômi at the expense of the Rokkaku and came to eclipse the Kyôgoku. In the process close ties were forged with the Asakura of Echizen. The Asai broke an alliance with Oda Nobunaga in 1570 and were eliminated in 1573. 'Asai' is often pronounced 'Azai'.

*Prominent People*

Azai Sukemasa (1491 –1546) built Odani Castle for the Azai clan, including his son Azai Hisamasa, to rule. Sukemasa was a former Samurai under the Kyōgoku clan, but he gradually increased his power under an internal struggle within the clan. He managed to become daimyo, a powerful feudal ruler, but became engaged in a perpetual struggle against Rokkaku Sadayori. Sukemasa was completely overrun and forced to retreat into Echizen, but he managed to maintain his independence with the help of the Asakura clan. While this alliance would prove to be a curse to the Azai clan, it was essential to the clan's survival.

Azai Hisamasa ( 1526 – 1573) was a son of Azai Sukemasa and the second head of the Azai clan.

Hisamasa became the head of the clan in 1542 after his father died, but unlike his father, he was never a strong leader. Losing domains against Rokkaku clan, he instead became a Rokkaku retainer. Hisamasa's retainers had enough and after his son Azai Nagamasa won the Battle of Norada against a force at least twice the size of his led by Rokkaku Yoshikata to win back independence, they forced Hisamasa into retirement.

Yet, this retirement was not complete and Hisamasa managed to hold some sway of the clan. This surfaced in 1570 after Oda Nobunaga who was allied with his son, Azai Nagamasa, attacked Asakura Yoshikage who had supported Hisamasa against enemies like the Rokkaku clan. Hating Nobunaga for his personality, Hisamasa demanded that the Azai clan pay back the support of Asakura clan and forced a war by breaking the alliance. It is thought that Nagamasa opposed him and believed that the alliance could somehow be mended over time since he refused to divorce his wife, Oichi, but he failed to gain enough support to overturn Hisamasa.On 1573, Odani Castle was besieged by Nobunaga's forces, and facing a loss Hisamasa committed seppuku.

Asai Nagamasa (1545 –1573) was a daimyo during the Sengoku period of Japan. His clan, the Asai, were located in northern Ōmi Province, east of Lake Biwa. He was both the brother-in-law of Oda Nobunaga, starting in 1564, and one of Nobunaga's enemies from 1570-1573. Nagamasa and his clan were destroyed by Oda Nobunaga in August 1573. Major battles of Asai Nagamasa include the battle of Anegawa in 1570 and the many sieges of Odani castle between 1570 and 1573. He was forced to suicide by Nobunaga in 1573. He was married to Nobunaga's sister Oichi. His daughters included Yodo-Dono(second wife of Toyotomi Hideyoshi and mother of Toyotomi Hideyori) and Oeyo (wife of Tokugawa Hidetada and mother of the third Tokugawa shogun Iemitsu)

[odaclan]

Were the infamous skulls actually “skulls” or “heads”?

Some time ago, I was browsing the Unification/Azuchi-Momoyama volume of Kadokawa’s educational manga series on Japanese history. In a rather unique move, the scene of the presentation of Azai and Asakura’s heads depicted the whole heads gilded in gold instead of the usual skulls.

Indeed, the Shinchoukouki describes the heads as 首 kubi, which is the term used to usually mean heads. The description of the skull had come from the Azai Sandaiki, which mentioned that the heads had been “stripped of the flesh” before the lacquering.

The Azai Sandaiki was considered not entirely reliable, and the Japanese encyclopaedia labels it as more of a book of fables and folklore rather than a certified historical account. It makes sense that whoever worked on this manga then thought that maybe the heads are just heads based on the Shinchoukouki.

However, just because the Shinchoukouki doesn’t say “skulls”, doesn’t mean that they aren’t skulls. There are various words for “skull” (髑髏, 曝頭, 曝首, etc), but they’re not necessarily daily vocabulary that people would normally use at the time. 

So, if the Azai Sandaiki is not wholly reliable and the Shinchoukouki wasn’t clear, were they actually skulls or heads, though?

I personally believe that the answer is “skulls”.

Here is why I believe that it makes more sense for the heads to be cleaned down to skulls before lacquering and gold leafing them: 

The Azai father and son and Asakura Yoshikage were killed around September-October of 1573. After which, the heads were put in public display in Kyoto, where they were probably exposed to the weather and perhaps animals or insects. 

Asakura Shikibu no Daibu brought Yoshikage’s head to the Ryūmonji in Fuchū [...] Nobunaga entrusted Yoshikage’s head to Hasegawa Sōnin, who brought it to Kyoto, where it was put on exhibition. (The Chronicle of Lord Nobunaga, page 198)

Nobunaga sent the heads of the Azai, father and son, up to Kyoto, where they were put on display at a prison gate [...]  (The Chronicle of Lord Nobunaga, page 199)

This narration is corroborated by the existence of a letter Nobutada had sent, describing that Asakura’s head was being delivered to Kyoto for presentation (the letter was sent before the Oda army defeated the Azai).

While there’s no description of how long were they put on display for, it’s quite likely that they were going to be there for quite a while. These head displays were meant to serve as a proclamation of achievement and/or warning, after all.

By the time of the 1574 presentation, the heads had probably already deteriorated, and shall we say it’s not going to be a pretty sight? 

It has been argued that what Nobunaga did was a form of the head presentation ceremonies typically done with enemy heads post-battle. This ceremony highly values aesthetics, and it’s demanded for fresh heads to be washed, perfumed, and even decorated with makeup. 

Even supposing it actually isn’t a formal “head presentation”, the three heads were being displayed in a banquet. Skulls are going to be much more presentable than deteriorated heads (surely we all know zombies look horrible), and so I consider it to be the more likely option. 

Not to mention that there is also the additional possibility of the heads wearing down to the bones naturally, precisely because of having been exposed to the elements. Perhaps, then, when the Oda vassals retrieved them from their “display” in Kyoto, they were already turned into skulls.

#japanese history #samurai #sengoku #Sengoku Era #Sengoku period #oda nobunaga #Azai Nagamasa #Azai Hisamasa #Asakura Yoshikage #azai sandaiki #shinchoukouki

[odaclan]

James Murdoch commentary, part 2

I am very interested in what Murdoch’s original sources actually say, because as I was reading the book some more, I encounter some more “Asai” passage that makes things even more confusing. 

In the preface of the book, the only Japanese text that Murdoch credits is Nihon Senshi, which was provided to him by Baron Terauchi, then the Minister for War  (Terauchi Masatake, I would imagine, the Minister for War in office 1902-1911). He credits a few more Japanese officials and translator, but does not name any of the paperwork that was used as material to produce his book.

So in my previous post I shared this:

(Murdoch’s History of Japan, book 2, page 124)

This is from the same book, page 172:

This passage describes that Nobunaga has a consort who is the daughter of "Asai, lord of Oumi”, and that this Asai fellow is a Christian. 

Something like this might result with someone reading this and wondering if for some reason Nobunaga had taken one of his own nieces as consort, because Murdoch does not give us the personal names of “Asai”. I would imagine that one was supposed to be Nagamasa and the other one his father Hisamasa, since that would make more sense.

It still makes the story rather strange. If that were the case, it means the source is implying that neither of the Azai men died! After their defeat, they were simply stripped off their fiefs, then converted to Christianity and lived in peace. An interesting counter to the golden skulls narrative, though I think the skull story is more credible. 

The consort who produced Nobunaga’s heir was believed to be the Lady Ikoma (Kitsuno), who passed away before the missionaries met Nobunaga. She is not related to the Asai. If this second Asai is Hisamasa, his only Christian daughter is Kyougoku Maria. 

Alas, poor Kyougoku Maria, her identity appears to have been confused with so many other women!

Incidentally, the one being described as the “second son” here sounds like Nobutaka, who is the third son. I do not have the quote on hand, but someone has once posted the Japanese translation of a missionary letter that mentioned this event. It said that Oda Nobutaka was very interested in converting, but was concerned about his father’s objections.

#oda nobunaga #oda nobutaka #kyougoku maria #kyogoku maria #maria kyogoku #Azai Hisamasa #Azai Nagamasa #James Murdoch #History of Japan #strange tales

[odaclan]

A clip from the Taiga drama Koumyou ga Tsuji 功名が辻, where the infamous golden skull sake cups were shown. After the drama’s production, these props were kept as display in Kakegawa Castle 掛川城. 

*) Seen on the scene: Hideyoshi gleefully accepting the drink while laughing along with Nobunaga, other vassals solemnly drinking (names not labelled), and Mitsuhide adamantly refusing to drink (followed by the usual “Nobunaga abuses Mitsuhide" formula). Also, Oichi being utterly horrified by the whole thing. 

If you’ve seen pictures of those very same skull cups floating around on the internet, know this: 

It is set prop for a TV drama. It is fiction.

It is NOT a reproduction or representation of real life artifacts.

To be entirely fair, the skull cups isn’t just wholesale fantasy made up by modern authors. The original source of this cups narrative was the Azai Sandaiki 浅井三代記, a collection of tales about the Azai family, which was compiled around 1670s-1680s. However, it is considered to be “storytelling” rather than an actual historical account, and its historicity is highly dubious. 

Even if it turns out to be a sincere attempt at collating a historical documentation, because of its very late creation date it’s still less reliable than, say, the Shinchoukouki, which claims that the skulls were just displayed and not made into cups.

Edit: The Azai Sandaiki also doesn’t mention the skulls being made into cups.

This skull cups narrative was used by Shiba Ryoutarou in his novel Kunitori Monogatari 国盗り物語, and from there the concept took root and became widespread among the modern populace through repeated usage in various pop culture and fiction. 

This particular plot point happens to actually have a historical source behind it (albeit dubious), but Shiba Ryoutarou is unfortunately to blame for a lot of Sengoku era misconceptions. His novels were very popular, and many things that were just his own fictional creation ended up being mistaken for historical fact and propagated ad nauseum in other novels, movies, anime, games, and so on. 

#nhk taiga drama #Taiga Drama #koumyou ga tsuji #artifact #artifacts #azai sandaiki #azai nagamasa #Asakura Yoshikage #azai hisamasa #oda nobunaga #Sengoku Fake News

[odaclan]

What are your thoughts on the tale of Nobunaga making sake cups out of the skulls of Azai Nagamasa, Azai Hisamasa, and Asakura Yoshikage? Do you think this story is true? Three "gold skulls" exist in Japan but it is made clear these are "reproductions".

I consider this to be dubious narrative. Making the skulls into cups, that is.

I have tracked down the origins of the cups story to the Azai Sandaiki 浅井三代記. It was dated to be written approximately in the 1680s, and an Azai-leaning documentation to boot. Its accuracy is suspect.

This account also contains other odd assertions, such as Oichi not being Nobunaga's biological sister. This became the basis for all the "Oichi and Nobunaga were a couple" conspiracies.

The account where the skulls were plated in gold is also present in Shinchoukouki, so it's considerably more reliable. It was just put on display, and not used as cups.

Plating the skulls in gold is not something that is awful per se. The tradition of taking heads and presenting them as proof of battlefield achievements is still commonplace in the time period. Having the skulls covered in gold is not any worse than the tradition of having to clean and decorate severed heads for presentation/viewing.

Also, to my understanding, those replica skulls that exist in modern day are not meant to be "representation of historical material". Those are movie props that are kept in galleries/museums for posterity because that is simply what Japanese people do. I have seen various movie props and costumes being displayed alongside legitimate historical material in castle galleries in Japan. I have seen an article identifying the title of the movie/drama the skulls were made for, but I do not remember what it was anymore.

ETA: I have located and identified the drama for which the skull props where made.

#reply #azai nagamasa #weird trivia #trivia